Queerty is better as a member
THE SHOT — The “Gay Free Zone” stickers (which, uh, aren’t a new thing) that are popping up around East London have been answered with a new batch of outdoor propaganda: “Help Yourself To Love” tabs, which feature inspirational quotes.
Many people think the “Gay Free Zone” posters and stickers are put up, not by Muslims, but by the far-right group, English Defence League…
Fagburn – seems to me that knowing our strangely bearded friends, and having actually seen a gang of hundreds of them marching down Regent Street with banners saying “Allah says Death to gays”, I don’t find the idea of muslims having done this at all strange!
@tallskin2: “Of course, there is a strong homophobic current among Islamists.
Last month five Muslim men were arrested in Derby for distributing a leaflet that called for the execution of gay men.
So we shouldn’t be surprised if some hate-filled Islamic fuckwits have been plastering east London with these posters…”
@Fagburn – I am confused. Where has the idea that the EDL were behind this come from??
These posters were posted before in the east end, yet no-one then suggested it was the EDL. So, why now?
Yet, the people who have form on this, ie our nazi bearded friends, are suddenly being defended!
It it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, and has been spotted before acting like a duck, why suddenly accuse the cats, dogs and foxes of duck-like behaviour??
Can you read?
Fagburn, I can read
Now will YOU answer the damned question!!!!
No, Fagburn, don’t bother
You just made up the fucking EDL thing, didn’t you!
@Fagburn: I’m sure Tallskin can read and I know I can. But how about actually answering the question? Is there any EVIDENCE that a group other than Muslims posted those messages? Citing your own speculation on Facebook doesn’t count.
“It’s what I posted on Facebook last night;
“I think it’s probably the English Defence League doing this, in all seriousness.”
My friend replied; “Yeah, i agree that this may not be what it first appears. I made that point a few days ago and think it’s really important to establish who’s behind it. Quite easily a far-right tactic to create tensions.”
Several people commented that they had suspected the same thing.”
Someone saying “I bet the EDL did this” and other people agreeing with the possibility isn’t proof of anything. Were there no witnesses to these signs being placed? Wouldn’t an EDL member posting signs citing the Koran in an area with a large Muslim population invite notice?
It’s answered in the link.
Also there you’ll find a link to these posters being discussed on the EDL forum.
A lot of their language reminds me of yours…
My last post was referring to TallSkin2…
I’m going to England in June; this isn’t very comforting.
Yeah, there must be a white man to blame somewhere.
It can’t be that Muslims are just as bigoted and anti-gay as their christian counterparts, no no no no no, couldn’t be that at all. They’re an oppressed minority!!!!1! They could never be responsible for such things!
It was mentioned on another website I read earlier this week in the comments section (Towerload?) that a gay guy had seen pakistani kids, i.e. muslims, putting these up.
How did he know they were Pakistani?
No, it’s not answered in the link.
Honestly, I wish this infantilisation of Islam would end. There are strong homophobic undercurrents, not just in Middle Eastern countries, but in Western ones as well, even amongst relatively affluent and integrated communities. And every time the homophobia is pointed out, someone screams about Islamophobia.
Be quiet you bigot. You just want to round up all Muslims and lock them up in concentration camps. Muslims are a peace loving, tolerant group of people who harbor no ill will of any kind towards gay people, but you’re just too privileged and bigoted against middle-easterners to see that!
Just look at all that gay-friendliness:
@Devon: I don’t think there’s anything offensive in what Devon posted. He didn’t say Islam was infantile but that some liberal attitudes infantalise it, defend it as exempt from criticism or responsibility for its words or deeds. He even pointed out that the Western world has its own issues with homophobia.
In the abstract I support freedom of religion but that doesn’t mean religion, ANY religion, is exempt from criticism. Liberal ideals that call for the defense of fundamentalists of any group when those groups would NEVER extend those same rights to others is short-sighted at best. I’m not talking about Muslims as a monolithic group but of sects and communities within Islam whose attitudes are antithetical to the same multiculturalism which defends it, hostile to gays, women, and other religions. What’s good for the Pope applies to an Imam as well.
Well said! Facts and figures speak for themselves while naive white people are burying their heads in the sand. Wake up and smell the civil war approaching! Islam is a fascist belief system with aims of world domination. It is incompatible with Western culture and ideals and people should wake up to that fact before it’s too late.
I presume he thought they were Pakistani because he has eyes. I wouldn’t mistake a white guy, i.e. a likely EDL supporter, for a Pakistani. Presumably as he said he lives in the area he wouldn’t either. Nor I would suspect would you. I don’t think all Muslims are homophobic scum but there are plenty who are. I think you are the one who needs to open his eyes because this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better, if it ever does.
Also if you actually bothered to read the news say for example Pink News you would see that the majority of the assults in gay friendly cities like Amsterdam and Toronto are carried out by muslim youth, who are less face it in the minority. So you would expect that they should be carring out the minority of these assaults, not the majority. Time to open your eyes son.
Items about Islam on Queerty always brings the racists creeping out the closet…
@Paul: Muslim isn’t a descriptor of race, it’s a religion.
@Paul: Islam isn’t a race, it’s a religion. Ergo, it’s not racism.
Paul : There’s a time for political correctness and a time for hard cold reality.
And, yes, I wouldn’t call it racism either. Since it IS a religion. It’s about the debate over a potentially homo-murderous religion and its influence in Europe. Buddhism and Hinduism are made up of primarily non-white people but you don’t see gays freaking out about them, because they’re not a potential danger.
JohnFS : No no no no! You’re not allowed to point out those facts here. It doesn’t go along with the gay fantasy of how things are supposed to be!
Are those “gay free zone” stickers being put up by the proprietor of the shop, or by someone else?
If by someone else, do they have the approval of the proprietor?
And, if the proprietor does not approve of the sign on his front door or window, why is it still there?
I can easily imagine someone using a brick to remove such a hateful sticker. Unfortunately, the piece of glass might suffer in the process.
It would probably be better to charge the proprietor with violation of the Equality Act, for refusing entrance to gay people.
You can tell a pakistani simply by looking at him/her?
How do you distinguish between someone from Pakistan and someone from India, for instance? I’m curious.
Also, what about British men and women of Pakistani descent – how do you tell the difference there?
Also, how do you tell the difference between a swarthy man who is a muslim and one who is a (token) member of the EDL?
Also, what has race got to do with it? There are white muslims, you know? Even the BNP has token non-white members.
Time to engage your brain son.
I actually live in Whitechapel and I have never seen these “Gay free zone” posters, although i don’t doubt their existence. I have always coexisted peacefully with my Muslim neighbours who fully accept me and my partner as a legitimate couple. Certain commentators on this page need to realise that Islam is not homogenous. There are those Muslims who despise homosexuals but there are many who are moderate or even liberal.
Remember guys, Muslims are our friends! Especially those moderate Muslims living in the west!
To Lefty and Paul.
Sorry Lefty but my brain is engaged and you’ve got this wrong. I didn’t see this I was reporting on someone else who did.
However regarding your post Indians are rarely if ever Muslim, they’re mostly Hindu, that’s why partition took place after independance as Nehru wanted to create a separate muslim only state, now Paksitan, separate from India. It also isn’t relevant whether they’re British men and women of Pakistani descent or not because the people posting these will be British, unless you think they flew over just to stick up some posters.
Yes there are some white muslims but white people were not those spotted putting up these posters.
If you read my post I thought I made it clear that I was not being racist, there are some muslims okay with people being gay, it’s the religion I was criticising, not the people. I work in the same office as a couple of Muslims and they’re fine and I’m out at work.
The trouble is that even though the local mosque has criticised these posters publicly, which is good, we have no idea what’s actually being said inside the mosque in private. I had it from a friend of mine who is also as left as you who used to work with a muslim guy who is living here after having fled from Iraq who told him that a visiting Immam spent time slagging off gay people as a sign of the moral corruption of the West. No Muslims are not all homophobic but a lot are and they get this from their preachers as to be fair do a lot of Chritians.
However if the mosques in Britain are really so enchanted with living here and being part of the community then why is this sort of thing permitted? Also reference the Dispatches programme regarding the Saudi backed schools teaching homophobia and anti-semitism. If they really believe that this behaviour is wrong then why is this not monitored for and prevented?
There is a muslim group who are gay friendly, can’t remember the name, though it’s not the Muslim Council of Britain, which apparently a lot of Muslims have little time for, who don’t agree with these homophobic attitudes. But again if this is the case why don’t they get this behaviour challenged. The only conclusion I can come to is that they’re fighting against the tide.
how do you tell the difference between a swarthy man who is a muslim and one who is a (token) member of the EDL?
Also, what has race got to do with it? There are white muslims, you know? Even the BNP has token non-white members.
Sorry, left some cut and paste at the end of the last mail.
“Sorry Lefty but my brain is engaged and you’ve got this wrong. I didn’t see this I was reporting on someone else who did.”
I’ve read so many sites over the last few days about this and I keep seeing people posting who’ve never posted on those sites before saying they heard that someone knew someone who is gay and who saw these posters being put up by “pakis” or “muzzies” or “pakistanis” – all quite telling, imo, but there again it’s the internet and it’s easy to misinterpret the intention behind cold text. It does follow a suspicious pattern, though there are undoubtedly people amongst them who genuinely believe what they say.
“However regarding your post Indians are rarely if ever Muslim, they’re mostly Hindu, that’s why partition took place after independance as Nehru wanted to create a separate muslim only state, now Paksitan, separate from India. It also isn’t relevant whether they’re British men and women of Pakistani descent or not because the people posting these will be British, unless you think they flew over just to stick up some posters.”
Of course it’s relevant when you’re dealing with people like the BNP or the EDL who generalise all non-whites as “pakis” – because then you’re dealing with a prejudicial mindset and these people have an equally prejudicial attitude towards other minorities.
They could have been pakistanis, but they could also have been bangladeshis or iranians, iraqis, afghans, etc etc – the point is, whoever saw it said they were pakistanis which reveals a certain mindset and I would take what they say with a pinch of salt.
Why should we take what they say with a pinch of salt? Because the far-right have a history of doing this sort of thing to stir up tensions.
Just like the BNP, the EDL have started trying to put forward an image of inclusion – gay people are alleged to no longer be in their line of fire (bully for us) after decades of brutal attacks on people like us; now they want us to join them because they have a new group they want to bully – or rather one that they’ve always hated: non-whites; muslims. But it’s all window dressing – I suspect the majority of EDL are as homophobic as they’ve always been. They claim to be a cross-section of the British public, but look at any photo of one of their rallies and you’d be forgiven for thinking Britain is exclusively populated by white skinheads.
And here is what happens to token gay members of the EDL when they come into contact with the real EDL:
It boils down to this: whoever put these up are either extremist muslims or far-right fascists. Both want to manipulate the public in order to stir-up tensions to serve their own agenda. Rather than acting like their puppets, I’d rather wait til there’s some proof about who actually put them up and then let the police deal with them. Otherwise we’ll just descend into violence and blind hatred and fear which is precisely what these fuckers want.
Btw, Jack Gilbert – who is the co-chair of LGBT forum Rainbow Hamlets, in Tower Hamlets where these stickers were seen said this:
“We have evidence that they were very likely to have been produced by far-right sources in order to forment community tension.”
Though he doesn’t say what that evidence is, so yet again it’s just someone’s word.
Funny how these stickers/posters were first noticed in London by an EDL member and posted on their forum.
It was discussed on the EDL messageboards here;
EDL supporters say they should go on gay forums to tell people about them.
Which may explain some of the posts above.
To No 28, TomW- I think most of the commentators here, even the ones worried about the Muslim-radicalization of Europe, recognize that there are liberal and moderate Muslim individuals. But too many gays don’t want to acknowledge Muslim homophobia in Europe because they feel that’s a “xenephobic Right Wing” position and therefore they have to go the opposite way.
BTW – I don’t live in the UK so I’m not stating my own opinions on this particular case, whether it’s a Muslim doing or a frame-up by this EDL or something else. I’m just speaking generally.
LOL, so we’ve gone round and round on this and still there’s no evidence for the idle speculation that these posters were put up by the EDL
Like I’ve pointed out before the bearded muslim nazis have put up these posters before, and “ordinary” muslims in homophobic gangs have attacked gays in this area, cripping some, badly injuring others, yet somehow ignoring this evidence the EDL are put into the frame as the guilty party.
Evidence boys, evidence please.
@tallskin2: An EDL supporter there.
The clues in the name.
Fagbum, you’re a piece of stinking slimy lefty
How fucking dare you call me a fascist. I am not and have never been a supporter of the EDL.
You apologise you fucking reeking anal pile
But it’s interesting how when losing an argument not very intelligent lefties have to resort to calling someone a nazi or fascist. When someone does that they’ve already lost the argument
I apologise, TS.
But there’s no evidence that’s been released to the public either way. Yes, on the face of it one would assume they were circulated by extremist muslims, but both extremist muslims and the far-right have a history of putting similar posters up; especially around Europe and in places like Poland that has a rampantly homophobic right-wing movement.
In this climate it’s right to ask for evidence and not jump to any conclusions until we know. Some people who see this as a welcome stick to beat all muslims with couldn’t care less if it’s actually the EDL trying to incite fear amongst gay people to heighten tensions, they just jump right in and act without thinking. But as I said earlier, if it is the far-right, these aren’t the sort of people we should feel comfortable giving more power to.
Saying these stickers MAY have been circulated by right-wing fascists to heighten community tensions is in no way condoning or excusing the homophobia of extremist muslims. The truth is, both evils are our worst enemies and that’s why I would caution against anyone rushing in to judge when there’s a very real possibility that they’re being manipulated by an evil which is just as homophobic and just as scary as extremist muslims.
Now, the chair of the Tower Hamlets LGBT forum says they have “evidence that they were very likely to have been produced by far-right sources in order to forment community tension” – which is enough for me to withhold judgement until we know more.
I can understand gay people hating religion, I don’t have much time for it myself, but anyone whose hatred for religion allows them to be manipulated – possibly – by the far-right, who hate us just as much is a mug in my book.
queerty- why would you ever, ever post a link to that blog.
I think Johann Hari rather blows out of the water the silly theory that the EDL did it – and he’s tiresomely politically correct.
Last autumn, mysterious posters began to appear all over the East End of London announcing it is now a “Gay-Free Zone.” They warned: “And Fear Allah: Verily Allah is Severe in Punishment.” One of them was plastered outside the apartment block I lived in for nearly ten years, next to adverts for club nights and classes at the local library, as if it was natural and normal. I’d like to say I’m shocked – but anybody who lives in Tower Hamlets knows this has been a long time coming.
Here’s a few portents from the East End that we have chosen to ignore. In May 2008, a 15 year old Muslim girl tells her teacher she thinks she might be gay, and the Muslim teacher in a state-funded comprehensive tells her “there are no gays round here” and she will “burn in hell” if she ever acts on it. (I know because she emailed me, suicidal and begging for help). In September 2008, a young gay man called Oliver Hemsley, is walking home from the gay pub the George and Dragon when a gang of young Muslims stabs him eight times, in the back, in the lungs, and in his spinal column. In January 2010, when the thug who did it is convicted, a gang of thirty Muslims storms the George and Dragon in revenge and violently attacks everybody there. All through, it was normal to see young men handing out leaflets outside the Whitechapel Ideas Store saying gays are “evil.” Most people accept them politely.
These are not isolated incidents. East London has seen the highest increase in homophobic attacks anywhere in Britain. Everybody knows why, and nobody wants to say it. It is because East London has the highest Muslim population in Britain, and we have allowed a fanatically intolerant attitude towards gay people to incubate there, in the name of “tolerance”. The most detailed opinion survey of British Muslims was carried out by Gallup, who correctly predicted the result of the last general election. In their extensive polling, they found literally no British Muslims who would say homosexuality is “morally acceptable.” Every one of the Muslims they polled objected to it. Even more worryingly, younger Muslims had more stridently anti-gay views than older Muslims. These attitudes have consequences – and they are worst of all for gay Muslims, who have to live a sham half-life of lies, or be shunned by their families.
@tallskin2: said: ”
I think Johann Hari rather blows out of the water the silly theory that the EDL did it – and he’s tiresomely politically correct.”
On the contrary, he says nothing which contradicts the assertion that these posters MAY have been circulated by the EDF.
As far as I can see, no one who has said these may be the work of a right-wing organisation has denied the obvious and worrying islamic homophobia that Johann Hari details.
Saying that these may not be what they first appear and treating the statement made by the co-chair of LGBT forum Rainbow Hamlets, in Tower Hamlets – Jack Gilbert, with some respect…
…is not denying that some muslims are homophobic. No one has made that claim, as far as I can tell. Quite the contrary.
I’m always intrigued by gay people who speak negatively about political correctness, incidentally. Very bizarre.
@tallskin2: “gay ________, who have to live a sham half-life of lies, or be shunned by their families
Why do you single out muslims, when you could fill in that blank with Christian, conservative, Catholics, Mormons, Orthodox Jews, or any number of other groups just as easily? It’s racist because you choose to single out Muslims when the greater problem isn’t specifically homophobia among muslims, but homophobia among religious groups as a whole. Anyone who takes their Abrahamic religious book literally is going to hate gays, just come out and admit that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all fundamentally anti-gay, regressive religions, none of which can be reconciled with modern western ethics in a way consistent with the words in their self-contradictory holy books. Religion in general, not Islam is the problem. There is no secularly motivated homophobia.
Fagburn, you are woefully informed.
These signs first appeared in Nottingham in July 2010, and were spotted not by the EDL, but by the communists/anarchists who hang out around Indymedia:
And to add injury to insult, at the end of July 2010, islamo-fascists protested at the Nottingham Gay Pride event (just in case the stickers weren’t offensive enough):
Perhaps you think that those videos and photos were actually of members of EDL with false tans and fake beards? Perhaps you think that the Islamic Standard website is also secretly run by the EDL? Islamo-fascists also protested at the Gay Pride event in Derby last year.
Perhaps you think that Peter Tatchell is secretly behind EDL, since he’s been banging on about islamic homophobia for 15 years – “Islamic fundamentalists are a growing threat to gay rights in Britain” (1995):
Whilst the Gallup survey of British muslims in 2009 showed “zero tolerance” for homosexuality, a recent survey of British football fans found that 93% were opposed to homophobia:
You betray your own class prejudice and snobbery when you transfer the rampant homophobia of muslims to the white working class.
It has transpired in the last week that these anti-gay signs have been seen across London – from Twickenham in the south-west, to Stoke Newington in the north, and from Shoreditch to Poplar. Apparently the police have arrested someone in connection with this hate campaign – let’s hope that it comes to trial so you can be totally embarrassed by your own prejudices.
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