If “homosexuality is an offence under Shariat Law and haram [prohibited] in Islam,” as Vice Chancellor Maulana Abdul Khalik Madrasi, of the Darululoom-Deoband school in India, proclaims, then isn’t Shariat Law an offense to approximately 500 million persons around the globe? And, uh, Mother Nature? (In India, gay rights advocates are fighting to repeal Section 377, which criminalizes homosexuality. Madrai’s comments come amidst statements from public officials.)
thought exercises
If Being Gay Goes Against Islamic Law, Does Islamic Law Go Against Nature?
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Jamie
Of course it goes against nature – most religions do. It’s bad enough when people willingly choose this; it’s even worse when people have no choice, and are forced to follow absurd religious codes or face ostracism (or even death). Religious conservatives in this country may be a pain in the ass, but they’re nothing compared to the ones in Islamic countries.
I appreciate Queerty’s not being PC about this, and calling Sharia out for what it really is.
dvlaries
Every organized religion comes down to the same bottom line: do it our way, because we said so, or burn in hell. And every organized religion -just as every government- knows the most cost-effective means of keeping people in line is through the inculcation of fear. Look at how well Bush & Cheney made it work for them.
Jaroslaw
Isn’t everything an “offense” to Islam? It gets tiresome after a while – and before I get blown out of the water, lots of religions have negative issues as well. It just seems like everytime I turn around, something is offending the (apparently delicate) sensibilities of Islam.
Alex
@Jaroslaw: Oh, Islam is pretty delicate, but no more so the Bill Donahue’s version of Catholicism. Yeah, mostly I just wanted to say that Bill Donahue’s a jackass.
Peter
DVLARIS …”burn in hell” would not be bad,especially if one did not believe in hell. But they do not stop there, “they” think that it is their “right and obligation” that ‘they’ do the job now, instead of letting god do his judgment thing, later.
Just a thought for the day….Maybe ‘they’ don really believe in hell either, and want to make sure that we suffer. God is good. WOW?
TANK
Uh oh…those crazy muslims kill when you question their laws or write anything offensive about them. Or, they hijack western tolerance and, instead of stoning you or cutting your head off, or executing you publically, riot, scream “racism” and demand that western governments (e.g., european), condemn free speech and religion by curtailing it at gunpoint (i.e., “we’ll riot and kill people if you don’t sell enlightenment up the river for our primitive 7th century desert war cult beliefs!”). They demonstrate the clear logical trajectory of one’s religious beliefs and the harm those beliefs cause. If you truly believe that killing an “infidel” is the right thing to do and that the creator of the universe demands it, then you do it (as they do) and believe that you’ve done the ethical thing and will be rewarded in some afterlife quid pro quo. WHere are the moderates, too? Poll after poll shows that the crazies are the mainstream.
I mean, if you truly believe that eternal suffering waits any and all who go against god’s law, then enforcing it (no matter how brutal) doesn’t seem all that bad in comparison–in fact, it’s god’s will not yours. LOL! REligion’s a cancer that needs to be removed.
strumpetwindsock
Listen to this interview with Tarek Fatah (or better still, read his book) before making assumptions about what Sharia law is, and what all muslims believe.
http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/features/chasing-a-mirage/
Much of Sharia (like a great deal of western tradition that we assume is religious or based on scripture) is actually secular law.
TANK
By all means, listen to a so-called muslim moderate (a secular muslim) talk about how sharia is likely being abused by theocracies across the middle east and by extremists throughout europe. Not one drop of blood has ever been spared because of the “condemnation” of moderates who sustain the same belief systems responsible.
Now listen to Richard Dawkins debate about Islam and sharia, and about how islam explicitly justifies abhorrent behavior toward women and minorities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1b0QKO1rJQ
Anyone who defends this is complicit in murder. There’s no middleground here. No christian fails to be guilty of perpetuating homophobia, either, regardless of what they say–because of the shared beliefs that they defend that give the religious bigots license to continue using their shared christian faith to promote and inflict suffering.
Christian Messer
Don’t know that I could have said it better than DVLaries: “Every organized religion comes down to the same bottom line: do it our way, because we said so, or burn in hell. And every organized religion -just as every government- knows the most cost-effective means of keeping people in line is through the inculcation of fear. Look at how well Bush & Cheney made it work for them.”
Which is so true – not to get too carried away – but isn’t the Bible and other Holy books, just that? They are books that have been edited to fit any situation that was convenient at the time…correct me if I am wrong. Sure, the word of God…edited by man.
persnikety
yes
Jaroslaw
Alex – true except Catholics aren’t causing riots when Bill
Donohue says something vs. remember what happened in Europe with the cartoons? etc. etc. etc. THAT is what I’m talking about.
TANK
@Jaroslaw:
Not anymore. And that has nothing to do with christianity, or, more specifically, catholicism but the triumph of secularism over backward primitive faith that caused heretics to be burned at the stake and groups of people massacred for believing differently.
TANK
To this day, genocide is still perpetrated by christians against others for believing differently–e.g., bosnian muslims.
Bill Perdue
The three abrahamic cult clusters of christers, islamists and judaists worship superstition and ignorance. They’re equally dangerous to humankind.
The loathsomeness of islamists is no worse than that of judaists and christers. Opposition to islam should not be used to fan the racist wars in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Opposition to islam should not be used to justify the genocide caused by those invasions and occupations whose only goal is to insure the super-profitability of US and English oil companies and war contractors. Nor should it be used to justify zionist ethnic cleansing and apartheid policies committed against Palestinians.
When legitimate opposition to religion becomes a political cover for genocide, apartheid and ethnic cleansing then it becomes political islamophobia, the latest form of racism.
TANK
First of all, Israel is a secular country–not a jewish state. Second, there is no ethnic cleansing of palestinians occurring. Appartheid conditions in certain cases? Yes, but don’t you dare act like the palestinians nore lebonese nor syrians nor iranians are blameless in fomenting hostilities. And I would never defend judaism as a faith. But obviously, given the history of jewish oppression, it’s so much more than that.
Bill Perdue
@TANK: Whether secular or not, it’s a European colonial adventure in Palestine that since its inception has used mass murder, state sponsored terror and apartheid to oppress Palestinians.
The solution is simple – the creation of a secular, socialist Palestine.
Ethnic cleansing: http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0366.htm
Bill Perdue
@TANK: mass murder http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/565756/Stern-Gang
Bill Perdue
@TANK: apartheid
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1957644.stm
@TANK: state sponsored terrorism
http://www.alternet.org/story/38937/
http://www.counterpunch.org/thomson0918.html
TANK
That doesn’t prove ethnic cleansing.
TANK
And it’s certainly not state sponsored. Though, some tactics can be considered state sponsored…just as some terrorist acts with many casualties could be considered state sponsored on the palestinian side…like, for example, yasser arafat encouraging young girls to blow themselves up for their country and allah (become suicide bombers).
Bill Perdue
@TANK: @TANK: All my citations prove exactly what I say they prove. Anyone who reads them will see that.
TANK
@Bill Perdue:
They do nothing of the sort. YOu link to propaganda and distilled reactionary knee jerk (and yes, underpinning that is antisemitism) distortions and half truths to support an extremist anti israeli premise. You have nothing of value or merit to contribute to a real debate on this topic, and you don’t know have the facts, either.
TANK
Instead, it’s the typical idiocy where you create patterns that don’t exist.
Bill Perdue
@TANK: All my citations are from sources and none contain a hint of anti-Semitism. What they do contain is the truth about zionist apartheid, state sponsored terror and ethnic cleansing.
While it’s true that zionism, because its associated with a colonial state, is racism, it’s simply a lie to equate criticism of zionism with anti-Semitism. And it doesn’t work. We are not anti-Semites, we’re anti colonialists.
As Desmond Tutu, an expert on racism said “People (in the US)are scared in this country, to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful – very powerful. Well, so what?
“Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust.
Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions, in their own history so soon?”
You raise the charge of anti-Semitism because the facts are all against your defense of state terrorism and colonialism and you can’t defend the murderous policies of your fellow zionists.
Too bad for you. You’re ideas are bankrupt and your smears carry no weight.
JSP
Religion is dumb.
diago
@Bill Perdue:
The question posted was related to gays and Islam. Why do Anti-Israel people start posting links and ranting as soon as Islam is mentioned? What does that have to do with what the Muslim Vice-Chancellor of a school in INDIA says? Yes, Israel must improve the treatment of Palestinians and strive for peace. My Atheist behind would still live in Israel and support Israel before I ever stepped in ANY muslim country or supported anyone (including the homophobic Palestinians) against Israel. You are clearly an anti-semite, and you use the the new language of anti-semitism. Calling ANY type of support for Israel “Zionism” is the new strategy amongst your kind, an attempt to equate anyone who supports a state for Jews with racists. Zionism simply means the support for a Jewish homeland. It is not some sinister worldwide conspiracy that people like you and your buddy who loves to use that word in the same sense, Ahmadinejad, would love us to believe.
Go celebrate pride in Ramallah or Gaza, and send some pictures back.
Bill Perdue
@diago: What I did was point out that all the abrahamic religions are tragedies for humankind, but that doesn’t excuse the kind of rabid racism you display.
I’m against the use of islamophobia to justify US inference in South Asia, including their genocide in Iraq and their mass murder of civilians in Afghanistan and now in Pakistan. And I’m against the US being the paymasters and military suppliers and military line of last resort for zionist colonization, apartheid and ethnic cleansing.
You’re a racist swine and an islamophobe. Your ideas are disgusting. There is no defense for what the zionists are doing in Palestine or what the US and it’s ‘allies’ are doing in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
The evils of islam and other cults don’t justify genocide or ethnic cleansing: not in Palestine, not in Bosnia-Herzegovina, not in Iraq and not in Darfur. Nothing justifies your kind of ugly racist defense of those practices.