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LAMAH LO?

If You Think American Marriage Laws Suck, Just Look At Israel’s

Even though Isreal recognizes civil, interfaith and same-sex marriages that happen abroad, all other marriages in Israel have to be performed by the country’s Chief Rabbinate and Rabbinical courts—both which do not allow interfaith marriages, same-sex marriages or civil marriage. That’s why Israeli activists have started a campaign to “Choose Your Way To Marry”. Their tagline: “In Israel you can get married only in one way—the Jewish Orthodox way. Many Israelis want to get married in their way but can’t!” Oy vey!

Via Joe.My.God.

By:           Daniel Villarreal
On:           May 10, 2011
Tagged: , , , ,
  • 22 Comments
    • SteveC
      SteveC

      “all other marriages in Israel have to be performed by the country’s Chief Rabbinate and Rabbinical courts”

      Does this mean that muslim marriages are not legal in Israel – 20% of Israeli citizens are muslim?

      May 10, 2011 at 1:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Barney
      Barney

      Who are these idiots who keep saying Israel is a democracy? They’re a fucking racist theocracy!

      May 10, 2011 at 2:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @SteveC: Another way that Arabs are treated as second class citizens in Israel (there is a portion of the Arab community which is Christian).

      May 10, 2011 at 2:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @Barney:

      Oh My god, will you take 5 seconds and do some reseach??

      “Marriages in Israel can only be performed under the auspices of the religious community to which couples belong. Matrimonial law is based on the Millet or confessional community system employed in the Ottoman Empire, which was not modified during the British Mandate and remains in force in the State of Israel.[1]

      There are nine officially recognised Christian communities, and Jewish, Muslim and Druze communities. Marriages in each community are under the jurisdiction of their own religious authorities.

      Only the religious authority for Jewish marriages performed in Israel is held by the Chief Rabbinate of Israel and the Rabbinical courts.”

      May 10, 2011 at 2:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @gregger:

      So you are so eagar to attack the one country there that gives gays rights that you don’t even bother to verify anything?

      All marriages in Isreal are performed under the the authority of the religion that the couple belongs to.

      But you know, don’t let facts get in the way of your ranting.

      May 10, 2011 at 2:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DK
      DK

      @Cam: What about atheists?

      May 10, 2011 at 3:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @DK:

      LOL!! I don’t know, I’m not an expert on Isreal’s marriage laws, I’m just the guy who took 5 seconds out of my day and used Google, something which some others don’t seem to be able to do.

      Besides, why would Atheists get married, according to all our politicians aren’t they all going to burn in hell anyway? Along with gays, people who have sex before marriage, people who listen to rock music, people who drink, people who dance, people who have oral sex, and people who stand outside buildings to purposely blow cigarette smoke at anybody wearing either a silk tie, or silk blouse.

      May 10, 2011 at 3:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DK
      DK

      @Cam: I think you pinpointed why we want to get married – it’s a party ;)

      May 10, 2011 at 3:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteveC
      SteveC

      So in Israel, atheists are obliged to travel abroad to get hitched?

      That’s revoltingly offensive.

      May 10, 2011 at 3:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • paul f
      paul f

      My sofa had an empire that had it’s own marrrage laws? Bad couch! Kitty, I forgive you for tearing up the sofa. You were just protesting pushy furniture. For my next act, I’ll talk about violins on T.V. and why it’s bad for children to watch them……..(chaneling Gilda Radner)

      May 10, 2011 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @SteveC:

      Well actually, no, nobody knows what happens in that case, you’re just guessing.

      but I mitigate any offense I feel witht he fact that it is the only country in the entire area where not only aren’t gays arrested, but that gays can flee other countries and seek asylum there for anti-gay persecution, gays can adopt, and gays can have their foreign marriges recognized.

      May 10, 2011 at 4:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gregger
      Gregger

      @Cam: Actually I dated a Christian Arab who had his family run off the farm where they family lived over for six generations. When the army came to give then 2 hours to leave the first thing they did was to cuff the father and older brother (13 years old). At 1 1/2 hours the buldozers came in and destroyed their crops and then turned on the house (still under the two hour evacuation order) while the grandmother was still gathering possessions. the family was not allowed to take their goats and chickens with them and the family was never given any sort of recompense for the loss of their home and livelihood. This is not the only story such as this that I have heard from a witness. A former Israeli Army Counselor gave her reason for leaving her native country as she could not stand the brutality that was shown to the Arab Israelis like the standard of breaking the thumbs of the males over 10 so they cannot throw rocks. Isn’t that wonderfully progressive??

      May 10, 2011 at 9:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @Gregger:

      So then your reason for these postings had nothing at all to do with the marriage laws there, but were from a personal hatred of the country.

      Your opinions are your own, but it doesn’t change what the facts are.

      As for progressive…in Gaza and the WEst Bank gays, with the support of the govt. are arrested tortoured and often killed. Isreal lets them seek asylum and citizenship there to escape. So to pretend that one side has no issues is disingenuous. I’m curious, when you were dating your arab boyfriend, did you two walk around his neighborhood holding hands?

      May 11, 2011 at 10:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      You seem to ignore the part of the article commenting on Atheist or mixed religion marriages. They are not allowed to marry in Israel as a civil marriage is not possible. People have to travel abroad, marry, and then return to Israel, or they can jump through the common law hoops over a span of years.

      I do not hate Israel, please do not put words in my mouth. I despise the nation’s policies that force families off their land, discrimination against a person because of their ethnicity or religion, and marriage discrimination. As with this nation, the US’s discriminatory practices the more of the vile behavior that is exposed to the light of day, the less the behavior is tolerated. To let the behavior go un-noticed/unobserved is to side with the oppressor. Did you forget that one?

      To answer your question about the man I dated when his family was forced off their farm they were given the choice of moving to a refugee camp or leaving the country. They left Israel, never to return, and moved to the US. So no I had never walked with him through the area he was raised in as it’s now a Jewish settlement.

      Throwing the question back to you, have you walked into one of the more conservative neighborhoods or settlements holding hands with your bf?

      I never called the Palestinian Authorities progressive. I will say that currently the government is repressive. While we’re at it how do you feel with the two newer discriminatory laws for Arab Israelis, one telling them where they can live and the other one provides a legal basis to penalize any community that teaches about the Nakba?

      http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/03/30/israel-new-laws-marginalize-palestinian-arab-citizens

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel

      We can battle back and forth, you will not change my opinion about the governments laws and practices.

      May 11, 2011 at 11:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @gregger:

      But again, no statement on their policies about atheists were made, for all you know, all you need to do is go to one of the authorities and say “I was riased as a Christian, so I want to get married” and they perform it. Who knows, because the article didn’t state it.

      As for your other comments, yeah, the settlements etc… suck, but again, if it comes down to a fight between two groups, and one of the groups gives women and gays rights, and the other has lesser rights for women, and zero rigths for gays, that is where the issue ends. Nobody who supports the torture arrest, etc.. of gays is going to get my sympathy. ISreal needs to get some of it’s shit together, but as long as they are taking in gay refugees from the surrounding countries and sheltering them, I’d say their score is way ahead in my book.

      May 11, 2011 at 12:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Cam: Really, you seem to have negligible knowledge of Christian Orthodoxy (RCC, ROC, GOC, AOC, COC,et al) they will not allow a marriage of someone who is not a “good” member of the church. Also many Christian churches including Protestant branches make a person go through religion in marriage classes, call them what they will. That is unacceptable to most Atheists as it would be to a Jew or a Muslim seeking an interfaith marriage. As someone who does not believe in organized religion, I find your response utter garbage. I would not and will not lie to some person just to get married. To do so demeans me as a person and the love for the person whom I am attempting to marry.

      Technically I am an Agnostic. I am not as dogmatic as many Atheists as I do feel there is something out there. That said, I’d rather be damned by my own actions, inactions, or attitudes and not by some religious figure’s opinions of me for who I am, what I do, and whom I chose to love.

      May 11, 2011 at 12:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @gregger: said…

      “@Cam: Really, you seem to have negligible knowledge of Christian Orthodoxy (RCC, ROC, GOC, AOC, COC,et al) they will not allow a marriage of someone who is not a “good” member of the church.”
      ___________________________

      The fact however that Isreal was founded by many who were secularists and atheists would lead me to believe that for decades not all of them have been taking vacations to Greece to get married and coming back.

      My response is only garbage in that I said that you had no basis to claim you KNEW what went on there. Anyway, it’s a moot point since apparently the new law allowing non-religious civil marriages over there passed in late April/Early May.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/04/israel-to-allow-civil-mar_n_779183.html

      May 11, 2011 at 1:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      “a limited number” is not universal and it does not address the people caught in a relationship between two religions or that of a non-affiliated person and a person with a specific religion. Read the entire post and then comment. Another law will have to be put through to address both the situations I mentioned. They are still valid arguments, regardless of your opinion. So much for being a moot point.

      The “utter garbage” was your response vs the reality that someone would have to lie to a religious figure or do you condone lying to authorities?

      Oh and why the F–k should anyone have to travel outside the borders of their nation of residence to get married?

      Care to answer that one along with the question I posed you earlier?

      May 11, 2011 at 1:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Cam:“a limited number” is not universal and it does not address the people caught in a relationship between two religions or that of a non-affiliated person and a person with a specific religion. Read the entire post and then comment. Another law will have to be put through to address both the situations I mentioned. They are still valid arguments, regardless of your opinion. So much for being a moot point.
      The “utter garbage” was your response vs the reality that someone would have to lie to a religious figure or do you condone lying to authorities?
      Oh and why the F–k should anyone have to travel outside the borders of their nation of residence to get married?
      Care to answer that one along with the question I posed you earlier?

      May 11, 2011 at 1:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @gregger:

      Greggor, you seem to be laboring under the assumption that I think the way they do things there is perfect. No, my issue is this.

      You came in completely attacking the one country in that area that doesn’t seem to want us dead. Do I like their marriage rules? No, I think they’re ridiculous. However, they are moving to address them…and…oh yeah, they don’t arrest, toroure and kill people like me for being gay, additionally they let other gays fleeing persecution in neighboring countries in. So again, go on and on all you want, but Once again, you seem to have a major issue with that country to the point where any horrific act the surrounding countries perpetuate against us is ignored in favor of any excuse to attack the other.

      Once again, when I have to pick between a country where legally I can be arrested, or with a wink from the officials, killed, and where women do not have equal rights…or a country where I have the legal status to live, adopt, have a foreign gay marraige recognized etc… there is no contest. Call me if Isreal starts making being gay illegal, or Gaza stops arresting and beating us and I’ll revisit my opinions.

      May 11, 2011 at 2:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Cam:”You came in completely attacking the one country in that area that doesn’t seem to want us dead.” No, I made an observation based on what was given both in the article (which was partially erroneous) and what has been presented to me both by Arabs and Sabras, that Israel treats Arabs as second class citizens. You still have yet to disprove that. You just keep attacking the Palestinian Authority.

      You erroneously extrapolated that I hate Israel. You attacked me. Get it straight, because the BS that you have spouting is just insane. No I didn’t just call you insane, I stated the BS that you are spouting is insane.

      You also brought in that civil marriages were legal according to a post in Huffington. You seem to have only read part of it and I corrected you on it. As a limited number of civil marriages for people with no religious affiliation would be allowed. It still does not address the interfaith marriage question.

      You keep changing the subject and facts and not answering questions when I have answered your question. If you are going to ask questions of people have the grace to answer questions posed to you.

      As for picking countries, you can pick your seat for all that I care. I don’t care what your opinion is, it means nothing to me.

      The article was on Marriage Laws in Israel. I still say until they fix the effective interfaith marriage ban by allowing civil marriage for all no matter if they have a religious affiliation, the government is still treating people like second class citizens. That is not an attack. That is merely an opinion, like it or not.

      May 11, 2011 at 3:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Vicky
      Vicky

      As far as homosexual issues are considered, Israel is the most progressive nation in greater middle east, there is no doubt about it.

      Aug 19, 2011 at 4:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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