In some industries, the chief executives of companies would be shredded by shareholders for speaking out so publicly, and repeatedly, on controversial issues. You don’t hear Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson weighing in on nuclear weapons in Iran, or IBM’s topper Sam Palmisano wondering aloud why the U.S. isn’t doing more about genocide in Darfur. But they don’t work in porn. Michael Lucas does. And his nearest and dearest social issue has involves the hot button subject of Israel. And there’s no shutting up about it.
Having made the porn film Men Of Israel (and engaged on a lovely PR tour for it), you can surmise where Mr. Lucas stands on the issue. An ardent supporter of Israel (and rabid critic of Palestine), Lucas uses his platform as porn star and producer to spread the gospel.
And this time, it’s coming right at you gays … who dare support Palestine.
We all seem to get very mad, and for good reason, when Ann Coulter or the latest right wing pundit uses the word faggot or spews that gay people are the downfall of civilization.
Yet, we don’t get upset about organizations like the San Francisco based QUIT — Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism chanting their oxymoronic mantra, “Queers for Palestine”.
The motto by itself evokes such a horrific mutilation of progressive thought. If you are queer and for Palestine it means that you are for the stoning of gay people. It means that you are for the torturing and disfigurement of gay people. You are for the brutal harassment and honor killings of gay people—because these are the things that Palestinians do to us.
QUIT advocates the divestment from Israel. They call for a boycott of Israeli products, an end to U.S. aid in the Jewish state and an end to investments in universities and Israeli establishments and corporations.
What makes QUIT and their slogan “Queers for Palestine” such foolish rhetoric is that these gay people’s affinity for Palestine is clearly unrequited. If these ‘queers’ want to march around with their delusional banners for Palestine—then they are free to make that irrational mistake. But do they think Palestine is for them? Queers for Palestine = laughable. Palestine for queers = horrendous torture and death.
And really, that’s just the lead up to this:
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
If you were to go to Israel with a big sign that said I am gay and pro Palestine then you will be left alone—not bothered or remotely harmed. If you were to go to Palestine with a sign that says I am gay and pro Palestine then you will be killed and no one will protect you.
So why in the world would gay activists protest against one of the centers of gay liberation (Israel) and for one of the planet’s most violently oppressive homophobic societies (Palestine)?
Many call it insanity; others say naivety or poor information. But these are complete delusional lies. Because, try as I might, I can’t comprehend any other justification for being a member of QUIT other than overwhelming anti-Semitism.
Not included in Michael’s blog post is this postscript: He also cannot comprehend any other justification for not buying Men Of Israel other than you being cheap.
MyHeartGoesOn
Yes! I’m glad someone is finally highlighting the idiocy of this group.
Jason
Is that Will, from Will and Grace?
Does he do gay porn as well?
Peter
Religion, again, here in this discussion over-rides “democracy”. When religion enters the discussion, democracy leaves. It is no different in the USA. C-street republicans believe that they were chosen by god to run this country; and their way is necessary for them to get rich and go to heaven. Nothing else matters. Democracy for ‘all’ the people of this country does not matter.
Israel thinks the same way. “Only their views” are of any importance. No thought that they stole this land from the Palestinians; even if they had permission from from some other world leaders.
Just as in Iraq, religion is what separates the people. It trumps the idea of ‘getting along’ or loving your neighbor as yourself.
fuzzypony
I’m tired of the accusation that by supporting Palestine, one is being anti-Semitic. I support peaceful Palestinians and peaceful Israelis, regardless of their religion. I don’t support violence, terrorism or retaliatory tactics from either side.
I also reject the notion that a “Queers for Palestine” sign in Israel wouldn’t draw any fire (figuratively speaking). No, you won’t be treated the same as you would in Palestine, but those words are still a provocative combination.
James
As a gay man who has traveled extensively, including Israel, Palestine and much of the Middle East… Michael Lucas’ post is accurate. You can not go to Palestine as a gay man there is overwhelming hatred for us. So I don’t understand, as Lucas said, why gay people would be pro-Palestine when they are unquestionably not pro-gay.
ggreen
Michael go get circumcised.
Corbin
It’s curious that Muslim states and religious scholars should be so savage toward homosexuals when Muslim cultures have always been such hotbeds of homosexuality. The Pashtuns in Afghanistan, for example, were notoriously homosexual. One of their sayings is “A woman for business, a boy for pleasure, and a goat for choice.” One of their songs begins “There’s a boy across the river with a bottom like a peach, but alas I cannot swim.” — Thank you for the this truth Michael.
sal(the original)
well its nice to know that the israeli troops who are fair and all for equal rights distinguished the terrorists from the gay palestinians when the entered gaza for their offensive …oh wait they didnt do that,Mr Lucas shut the f up
sal(the original)
..IF ONE OF THE KIDS KILLED IN GAZA WAS A GAY KID MR LUCAS DID YOU SHED A TEAR FOR EM?NOPE!CAUSE THEY ARE ALL PALESTINIANS TO YOU,NOW WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU YOU FOOL
sal(the original)
I THANKS GOODNESS EVERYDAY THAT I DONT LIVE IN A PLACE LIKE GAZA BECAUSE OF FOLKS LIKE YOU MR LUCAS WHO CLAIM TO BE BETTER BUT IN REALITY YOU CHOOSE YOU DONT SEE PALESTINIANS AS PEOPLE AND JUST WANNA BOMB THEM ALLL AWAY
tim
Even if the editors of Queerty hate Michael Lucas, they still should have some common sense left.
Palestinians are the enemies of gay people just as most muslims are.
Out of all groups those homosexuals decided to support Palestinians . Sure it is antic-emetic. Gays never support homophobes. So this is not a coincidence.
sal(the original)
@tim: “Palestinians are the enemies of gay people” I think you mean radicals are the enemy of gay PALESTINIANS…FOOL
sal(the original)
@tim: help get all the peace lovin people and gay folks outta Palestine and then maybe you use that general sentence again
RainaWeather
So because there are homophobic Muslims we should approve of Israel’s actions? I think not.
tazz602
I’m wondering what Michael Lucas would say to the Log Cabin Republicans?
sal(the original)
this land belongs to palestinians and israelis,not one above the other.shit,it should be called the united states of the middle east and if ya wanna be a jew or a muslim let that be your personal business and not a country issue
c0rpusdelicti
Yes, because all gays are defined strictly by their sexuality. Their political and moral leanings are all boxed in by who they want to fuck, love, or marry; we see the world only through rainbow-tinted glasses.
Or not.
Michael Lucas should stick to porn, because his socio-political commentary is myopic, at best.
Reason
Gay ppl never ever give support to anyone who even has the tiniest hint of homophobia. We don’t support the Republican party or religious evangelist organizations– both who are not trying to harm us- just silence and ban us. But yet we are supporting a group of ppl who r killing gay ppl on a daily basis-why???? These barbarians kill gay people in the most horrific ways worse then killing the way Nazi’s killed Jews. There is no other explanation other than anti-Semetism for aligning with someone like Ahmadinejad who supports Palestine and claims there r no gay ppl in the middle east.
emb
I think we’re all dancing around the real issue here, which is hinted at by Tim: The core of the problem is religion. Islam is anti-gay; christianity is anti-gay; judaism is anti-gay; buddhism is noncommittal. Just to be clear, folks, if it involves invisible super-friends, it’s anti-gay (unless the invisible super-friends inhabit trees and rocks; they seem to be OK with us). And don’t trot out the “liberal christians”–their contorted attempts to explain away the inherent homophobia of the bible and 2000 years of theology are painful to watch.
So quit with the oh-you’re-antisemitic and oh-you-hate-the-Palestinians nonsense. It all boils down to this: Religion is hate. Until we get rid of the nonsensical hysteria that is religious faith, we’re going to be stuck with homophobia.
The Israelis are a brutal occupying force with expansionist intentions based on the notion that god told ’em to; the Palestinians blow up teenagers in discos and little old ladies on buses and expect sympathy for their plight, but believe god wants them to drive the jews into the sea. Yet depending on how orthodox they are, both agree that the homos are varying degrees of undesirable. A pox on all of them.
Vlad
1. Not all Palestinians are Muslims.
2. There are gay Palestinians as there are gay people everywhere.
3. Opposing one injustice doesn’t mean that you aren’t aware of other injustices.
4. The impoverished and ghettoized conditions that the Palestinians live in as the result of Israel’s land grab and continued refusal to find a permanent solution to the situation do not usually create an environment conducive to social progress.
5. Israel is a democracy but it is an exclusionary type of democracy – only certain types of people can participate in the process, i.e. Jews and a select minority of Arabs who cannot challenge the Jewish-centric nature of the state.
6. Why would anyone who isn’t Jewish respect their claim to Palestinian land based on some story in a book from thousands of years ago that says that god has given them this land? This is utter insanity!
sal(the original)
@Reason: “Palestine and claims there r no gay ppl in the middle east.”yeah and you know better so why do you support folks who dropped bombs on UN spots in gaza?
INCognito
So, where exactly is he wrong? Gays are not killed and tortured in Palestine simply for being gay? At least as far as the group he’s talking about, seems to me like he is quite accurate… Look at what’s happening in Amsterdam – last few years looks like attacks by Muslim youths against gays have been on the rise… You’re quite right it is about religion. But then again we get to hear from people who participate in groups like QUIT that we must not think that about “the religion of peace.” Seems to me these QUITters are delusional…
The Gay Numbers
Why would gays be supportive of gays? Because even if they hate us we understand their plight when it comes to the Israelis.
The rest assumes that we approach the world as if we are countries, i.e, since they do not like us we should be allied in the political sense with Israel.
I do not necessarily agree with being pro Palestine gays, but I do agree that two wrongs as making a right.
At the risk of being attacked, I call the I/P situation dual dead babies syndrome. “You killed my child.” “No you killed my child.”
The truth is that this is about economics. Not religion. Not dead babies. Everyone sort of knows this,but geopolitics being what is -everyone needs to believe their own personal narrative lies.
The Gay Numbers
that should read “two wrongs do not make a right.” Which is at heart of what is being advocated here. “They don’t like you,” which is an injustice. So you should favor what may be injustices toward them by a separate entity like Israel for completely unrelated reasons to why they dislike you. Incidentally, in college, I dated this African fully justified as he explained in returning to his home country to “get back” at those who hurt his family. I ended it when I found out he meant violence. That although the people who did what was a horrible act were no longer there, he would blame the entire tribe for what others in their tribe had done, and it was “okay” to harm them. This is not just religion. Although it is a big part of it. It is also the bad side of tribal instinct that Lucas is trying to push.
Fitz
And Lucas’ views on this are important, why? He’s a decent pornographer, but that’s about it.
sal(the original)
@INCognito: “So, where exactly is he wrong?”umm recently there was an attack on a secret gay centre in Israel,shit like that happens in israel too..there are radical jews too in israel who stab gay folks in israel
sal(the original)
@INCognito: the gay people who are attacked in israel are jews too and they are attacked by their jewish brothers..yet mr lucas stands behind israel…well let him acknowledge there are some radicals in israel too and a blanket support 4 em aint right
Jonathan
Fuck this dude.
Brian
@emb: “So quit with the oh-you’re-antisemitic and oh-you-hate-the-Palestinians nonsense. It all boils down to this: Religion is hate. Until we get rid of the nonsensical hysteria that is religious faith, we’re going to be stuck with homophobia.”
Thank-you for telling the truth. Religion made homosexuality wrong. Until we stand up to that we can never be equal.
rudy
I always feel sorry for the poor actors who have to talk dirty about that large penis he doesn’t really have.
Brian
@The Gay Numbers: “The truth is that this is about economics. Not religion. Not dead babies. Everyone sort of knows this,but geopolitics being what is -everyone needs to believe their own personal narrative lies.”
No, it’s religion. 4,000 years of it.
Scott in NYC
One of the most difficult conundrums of my lifetime is the synergy between the radical left and virtully every hardline, radical right-wing government in the Middle East. Here, useful idiots can wave all the banners they want and express solidarity with regimes who would seem them dead for being who they are. I believe many liberal activists know this, but see being a liberal, anti-Israel activist as part of a social identity they admire.
Good for Lucas. He is 100% right. It’s high time somebody finally said it…unvarnished, brash and naked.
INCognito
@sal(the original): Yeah, Sal, worked out really well in Lebanon.
@sal(the original): Yes, but it is not supported by the government of Israel like it is in the PA.
@sal(the original): There is a difference between other citizens doing it without governmental support and encouragement and a government-sanctioned policy. Surely, you see the difference, no?
Rikard
I fear we made a mistake when we supported the creation of a jewish state in the middle east as repairation for genocide in europe and gave the religious fanatics the tools to fulfil their prophecies.
The Gay Numbers
Do not confuse excuse for cause. This is economics. Religion is the excuse.
BetterToBeLiberal
@Rikard:
Exactly. A person can be pro-bilaterial state and criticize both countries. All in all, Israel shouldn’t have been created in the first place. But I guess we have to live with what history has given us.
The Gay Numbers
Correction- I should say economics and political power.
Cam
@sal(the original): You said “well its nice to know that the israeli troops who are fair and all for equal rights distinguished the terrorists from the gay palestinians when the entered gaza for their offensive …oh wait they didnt do that,Mr Lucas shut the f up”
____________________________________________________
Sal, one thing you seem to have missed. The Israeli’s don’t have to differentiate the gay Palestinians, because most of them are trying to flee Gaza for Israel, London, and any other country that will have them. Gays in the territories are jailed, tortured and murdered. So you can rant and rave all you want. But what you are basically doing is the same thing as going out here in the U.S. finding a gay basher who is being tried, and then picketing outside their trial in support of them. Forget about supporting the Palestinians making anybody anti Jewish. Supporting them is anti gay, anti woman, etc…
The Gay Numbers
@Cam: And this is of course the point. To pretend once again that two rights make a wrong. If one supports gay equality then they must favor the settlements by Israel? This logic make work on those who already do support such abuses, but the argument is dishonest. It is not about our equality at all. it is about trying to promote Israel with a 1,2 look over there move.
PopSnap
Actually, America’s support of Israel is rooted deeply in Christian and fascist beliefs. I dont care either way, honestly; I support life and peace regardless of what side.
But you have to understand, the Evangelicals believe that the Messiah will return once the Israelites reclaim their land that they feel is rightfully theirs.
I feel much more threatened by neo-Cons and Evangelicals here in America than I do by ignorant & brainwashed Muslims in the Mid-East.
vernonvanderbilt
@Jason: Nope, it’s Zoolander. Haven’t you noticed he flashes his patented “Blue Steel” in every picture?
Mark
Lucas misses the point: That Israel was STOLEN from the Palestinians! A fact that most jews seem to “forget”.
Mark
@Rikard: I agree
ricky
THE PALESTINES WERE THERE FIRST! THE WEST SHOULD NEVER HAVE KICKED THEM OUT JUST BECAUSE THEY FELT GUILTY OF WHAT THEY DID TO THE JEWS FOR CENTURIES.
The Gay Numbers
@PopSnap: That’s the evangelical reason. The American reason is money.
Jason
“Lucas uses his platform as porn star and producer to spread the gospel.”
Best. Sentence. Ever.
Jason
@ricky:
Says who?
You were probably not there to witness it.
traffick
I really don’t understand why this site always posts whatever comment comes out of Michael Lucas’ mouth. Granted this article already has 40 comments, so maybe I answered my own question.
Personally, I support the people of Palestine. Yes I know that they would not be to happy with be being a gay person, but they also might not be to happy with me being white, that I was raised Catholic and that I am currently an Atheists. They are a nomadic tribe of people who have been treated like crap for 100’s of years by all of their neighbours, both Jewish and Muslim. Nobody wants them, so now they fight for 2 very small pieces of land.
But on the other side, it’s not like Israel is most gay supporting country in the world. Ultra-orthodox followers, attacked Gay Pride marchers a couple of years ago. And a couple of weeks ago, a member of the Jewish army, shot and killed members of a Gay Youth group in broad daylight. Just because he filmed a porno movie in Israel does not mean they open their arms to gays and lesbians everywhere. In fact I would not be surprised, if in fact Mr. Lucas even informed anyone in Israel’s government, that he was in fact filming a porno in their country, cause I really don’t think it would have been allowed.
Mr. Lucas, is a businessman. His job is to make money. It is not like he is donating all the proceeds from this film to any charities.
hardmannyc
I remember reading in some gay newspaper a lesbian saying at a demonstration, “Well, I know if I lived in the West Bank, they’d kill me, but I still support them.”
That pretty well sums up QUIT. They’d be Jews polling for Nazis in Poland in 1940.
Jon B
@The Gay Numbers: You don’t have to favor the settlements, nor do you have to support Israeli policy blindly. I, for example support neither of them. However, it is bullshit to point solely to Israel in the conflict and say they are wrong. You are talking about a people who elected a terrorist organization to lead their government. That is not to say that all of them support terrorism, but it is hard to negotiate peace treaties with a group that on one hand purports to be a legitimate government, and on the other hand launches bombs and supports suicide bombings. Supporting Palestine has become this chic progressive position for a few years now, but it makes very little sense. The issues are significantly more complex than this side is wrong and this side is right, and for anyone to agrue otherwise is proof of ignorance.
@sal(the original): You seem to be a lost cause so I’ll keep it short. Every country has hate crimes against us gays, however, unlike most countries (including this one), when there was a shooting at the youth club in Israel, their prime minister came out to the protests and memorials. The police investigate hate crimes, and the guilty get locked up. In most Arab countries, the killer is marched through the streets as a hero, or it is the government that is doing the killing itself.
Either way, QUIT is a silly group of silly people. What does being queer have to do with supporting Palestine or Israel? It’s an example of identity politics gone too far.
I don’t think criticism of Israeli policies and actions are anti-semetic for the most part. But some folks’ blind support for Palestine without any facts or sense of history certain is rooted in anti-semetism.
The Gay Numbers
@hardmannyc: Well, I was wondering when someone would play the Nazi card. Of course, of the time period, would be because the Chinese once treated the Japanese poorly that justified the Japanese declaring war on the rest of the world. One wrong somehow made the other right. Being a bigot in one way somehow justifies the settlements and one being blown up. I hate these discussions because they show how crass human nature is. You do not give a shit about gay rights. Just pushing the proper buttons to get what you want on the Israeli debate.
Cam
@ricky: You said “THE PALESTINES WERE THERE FIRST! THE WEST SHOULD NEVER HAVE KICKED THEM OUT JUST BECAUSE THEY FELT GUILTY OF WHAT THEY DID TO THE JEWS FOR CENTURIES.”
_________________________________________
Funny thing Ricky, before Israel was there guess who controlled the Gaza and the West Bank? Egypt and Jordon, and guess what, they didn’t give the Palestinians citizenship, they kept them as refugees etc… so don’t try to blame the conditions there all on “The Jews”
As for your comment as to who was there first. jews have been living there for over 2000 years, unless the Palestinians can trace liniage back to the Caananites there is a toss up as to who was there first. Before Isreal existed there was no governmental authority there other than Britain.
Scott in NYC
Ricky and Mark,
You’re both ignorant. The “Palestinians” you are thinking of are not the same as those who identify as such in modern times. The Palestinians were the philistines…and it eventually morphed to include the people who lives in that region of the world, before there was Israel, Jordan, etc. The majority of those “Palestinians” were in fact Jews.
You’re getting modern and older definitions of the same word mixed up…much to the delight of those who want you to believe the Jews just swooped in and took that land. It happens to be completely untrue.
Cam
@The Gay Numbers: you said ” And this is of course the point. To pretend once again that two rights make a wrong. If one supports gay equality then they must favor the settlements by Israel? This logic make work on those who already do support such abuses, but the argument is dishonest. It is not about our equality at all. it is about trying to promote Israel with a 1,2 look over there move.”
_______________________
Sorry, say whatever you want, but just because a gay basher gives money to charity I’m not going to come out and rally to support him when he is on trial for killing gays. In the territories, woman are murdered for dishonoring the family, gays are tortured, jailed or killed just for being gay. Say whatever you want, use whatever moral equivilancies you can think of, but it will not work. The Palestinian govt. and culture at this point in time are jailer, torturers and murderers of gays. I don’t support gay bashers here in the U.S. even if they had a crap childhood and I will not come to the defense of a land that seeks to kill everybody who is gay like me.
Mike Hipp
Two points. Religion is the bane of humankind. Gay people support people or persons who hurt them every day of the week…. i.e. the log cabin republicans, Bill Clinton circa DOMA and DADT, and most recently Obama and his support of the Clinton initiatives.
The Gay Numbers
@Jon B: I don’t give a shit about this stuff other than the fact that is so obviously a ploy by someone trying to pit gays against a group. The point is- it is bullshit because it is manipulative. “Oh you should support Israel because the Palestenians don’t like you” Fuck the manipulation. If we are going to go by that standard then most of the world, including the US and including Israel where tehy just killed gays, does not like us. That does not make two wrongs a right. And your trying to wash the immorality of the settlements just proves my point.
The Gay Numbers
@Cam: Why don’t you pull out more b.s. to support an indefensible moral argument which again equates to two wrongs make a right. I did not say gay bashing is okay. I said both gay bashing is wrong as is the settlements. It is not either I choose the moral right thing on gay equality or the moral right thing on the settlements. Or for that matter on the terrorism committed by some Palestenian groups which are also wrong. All of it is wrong. You are not going to get me into this faux game of pretending that one action or another is morally acceptable because I happen to be in one of the groups harmed. In each instance that I mention- a moral evil is being commited. My morality is not conditional on tribalism. Bashing gays is wrong because bashing gays is wrong, and not because it is done by Palestenians or whoever else does it.
edgyguy1426
@Jon B: as a (jewish) buddhist, I liked your perspective. I do support the land for peace initiatives, but I don’t think the Palestinians will ever accept it. They offered so much (and more) to Arafat but it was no use. I know economic frustration breeds violence (the south and west sides of Chicago are a microscopic example)but as long as the youth are steeped and trained in violent rhetoric and deeds as a way of life. It won’t change. Ever.
The Gay Numbers
@edgyguy1426: This is where delusion comes into place- the violence has been on one side? The provation too? I readily admit to the Palestinian problems in the deal, but this is sad where someone who suppose loves “peace” but can not discuss how both sides are warlike. And, I know a plenty of strong Israeli supporters having lived in NY for the last decade. If these folks, often from Israel, are any representation- the mindset of wanting war is on both sides.
adamblast
Mr. Lucas seems to think that only pro-gay cultures and peoples deserve self-determination. If that were the case, there’s hardly any county in the world that deserves to stand, and certainly not the US or Israel.
edgyguy1426
Scanning my post for where I said (or implied ) the violence was one-sided.Nope, don’t see it.
Also as “someone who suppose (sic) loves ‘peace’…” of course both sides are war-like, but I can also see a policy of targeting those implicit in terrorism as the Israelis would like (but it doesn’t always work out that way) vs. a policy of blowing up as many innocents as they can get their hands on.
Unfortunately both sides are misled by leaders who are trying to appease the ultra conservatives in their parties as well as being under financial influence from outside countries.
There are no innocent parties in this debate- I don’t agree with Netanyahu’s politics nor the politics and methods of Hamas, but how can you deal with the the other side when it calls for your destruction. period.
ChristopherM
Just because most Arab culture is anti-gay doesn’t mean Palestinian people deserve to live in a state of apartheid. Lucas shows once again that he’s a bigot on top of being a ridiculous plastic-enhanced media whore.
Bill Perdue
@Cam: “Sal, one thing you seem to have missed. The Israeli’s don’t have to differentiate the gay Palestinians, because most of them are trying to flee Gaza for Israel, London, and any other country that will have them.”
That’s bullshit. According to an article in “The Jewish Forward” by Kathleen Peratis you’re defense of zionism is full of it, a common enough tactic of far right pro-war pro-colonialist Americans who try to justify zionist ethnic cleansing, mass murder and apartheid practices against Palestinians. Peratis is a trustee of Human Rights Watch.
Peratis’ article in reprinted in http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/ a major source of material debunking zionist propaganda.
In her Forward article Peratis says
In http://de.indymedia.org/2003/06/54773.shtml Charity Crouse, a Jewish lesbian anti-occupation activist says “… the Shabak, or Israeli secret police, will immediately attempt to blackmail any gay Palestinian they encounter into being a collaborator. …the men are sometimes picked up by the Israeli police ostensibly for being in the country illegally, and eventually end up in the custody of Shabak. Shabak threatens to tell their families or the P.A. that they are gay and working as prostitutes in Israel.”
Lucas is a turd who sentences boys to death paying them to perform unsafe sex.
Bill Perdue
Question. “If You’re Gay And Support Palestine, You Also Hate … Jews?”
Answer Only if you accept the lies of far right pro-war pro-colonialist American zionists who try to justify zionist ethnic cleansing, mass murder and apartheid practices against Palestinians.
If you’re not a racist you’ll have to agree that the only way to save Jews and Palestinians, and to save us from more 9-11s is for the US to quit paying for ethnic cleansing and subsiding the apartheid and colonialist settlement policies and publically withdraw all support from the zionists. But that’s not going to happen because the zionist state is the ultimate staging base to attack and grab Arab oil reserves when we get kicked out of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iraqi Kuwait, Pakistan, the Gulf states, Yemen and Afghanistan.
The other part of the solution is the dismantling the zionist state and the creation of a secular, socialist Palestinian state, alone or in combination with other states in the region. Nothing else will save the Jews or end the zionists racist oppression of Palestinians.
Lucas is a turd who sentences boys to death paying them to perform unsafe sex.
marc
Bill,
Lucas never filmed a bareback film. So stop lying.
The Gay Numbers
@edgyguy1426: The argue as structured says there can not be complicated. The gay porn star who wrote what he wrote can not imagine someone like me who says ‘I am against Palestinian terrorism (on both sides), I am against denying the right of self determination that is perpetrated by the Israelis, I am against not allowing the right of return simply because you do not want their population to be bigger than yours, etc and I am against bashing gays.’ None of that is inconsistent as to morals. It is only inconsistent if one is playing us versus them rather than holding onto a consistent moral perspective.
allstarecho
And of course leave it to Queerty to give this douchebag Lucas yet another platform. FREE PALESTINE! AND I AM GAY! AND FUCK MICHAEL LUCAS!
Bill Perdue
@hardmannyc: This is the same jackass racist who, commenting as hellskitchenguy, said “Well, let’s keep this in mind when Bill Purdue, the Prof VP and the rest of them start screaming about American imperialism. I say, go bush – nuke the bastards.’ Posted: Dec 5, 2007 at 6:02 pm. He was taking about Iranians.
That was followed by a series of posts expressing shock at his racist, sociopathic rant and in reply hardmannyc/hellskitchenguy said “Yeah, I’m a Bush/Hill supporter. Whatever. Bomb ‘em. Bomb ‘em. They’re beyond redemption at this point. they’re a hateful mass of religious fanatics whose only purpose on this earth is to spread hatred, ignorance and intolerance.” Posted: Dec 5, 2007 at 10:30 pm.
These are the gays and lesbians, workers and trade unions, and student this jackass wants see murdered by the US. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm31kpjBiFQ
TikiHead
The thing no one has mentioned yet? Ms. Troutface is EXTREMELY angry in that photo.
He is so expressive.
The Gay Numbers
@TikiHead: LOL
sal(the original)
@Cam: “because most of them are trying to flee Gaza for Israel, London, and any other country that will have them.” ummm friend you dont look at the news do you?umm look up “the jungle” in france,london dont want em!
Charles Merrill
@Bill Perdue: There are many stories of Palestinian gays who go to Israel for protection, and they fall in love with an Israeli gay man. This is true democracy in action. Long live Israel the only gay friendly Democracy in the Middle East. And Lucas is making a statement about democracy with his homo erotic artistic endeavors bringing joy to his customers .
TikiHead
@The Gay Numbers: I almost can’t bear to look at that photo for long, what with the burning, passionate rage!
Which looks much like his lustful gaze. Which looks much like his fervent attention. Which looks much like his withering disgust. Which looks much like his adoring love. Which looks much like his…
Gawd, face lifts are Hell! Or Botox, not sure.
sal(the original)
@INCognito: “Yes, but it is not supported by the government of Israel”umm really,well why don they stand up to the radical jews who stab us gays and are the same folk who build on land even when the UN and america tells em to not do that…..
sal(the original)
@INCognito: “There is a difference between other citizens doing it without governmental support and encouragement and a government-sanctioned policy.” UMM that same government that’s ignoring the international community and continues to carry out inhuman practices??yeah they sound wayyy better!!where’s the israel trials for the troops that killed that little Palestinian girl??!!!!!!!!!!
sal(the original)
why cant people share??!!!
thomas
Sal(the original) lol
Little Palestinian girls are usually being rapped by big Palestinian men and then killed by their own fathers as part of Islamic tradition of “honor killings”
Dmitriy
@Rikard:
the creation of the state of israel was not created for the purpose of retribution for the Holocaust
it was created to give the Jewish people a tiny sliver of land where they can for once not be a second class minority group:
what many people omit from this idea of Israeli’s being European colonizers who created an “apartheid state”
is that Israel offered the Palestinians citizenship( a small minority accepted it, as can be seen by the 18% of Israelis who are arabs). Instead they sided with Israel’s neighbors hoping that they would destroy Israel; which they were unable to do.
In response to this defeat the Arab governments confiscated the assets of its Jewish citizens and for the most part did nothing to prevent Arab citizens from rioting and killing any Jew in their path. Disposed and fearing for their lives: 850,000 Jews left for Israel, either by choice or expulsion( from Libya and Egypt in particular), the other 100,000 or so left for Europe. These people make up 52% of Israel’s population today.
From my Jewish I’m not against a Palestinian state, but not in exchange for the end of Israel; especially when the organizations that represent Palestinians believe that destroying Israel for the glory of Islam is the only viable means of solving this conflict( this can be read in the Hamas Charter). Let’s not forget that in the Arab world the Protocols of Zion are widely presented as fact.
From my queer perspective: there is no safer place for queers than in Israel. There are no sodomy laws in Israel, there is no DADT like policy, there are anti discrimination laws in employment, and oversees gay marriages are recognized.
Compare that with the other countries and you’ll find that you can get anywhere from 10 years in prison to the death penalty; with the exception of Turkey (which does not have any sodomy laws).
So yes everyone can agree that Palestinians should the right to govern themselves on their territory: but the queers of Palestine are still going to escape to one place if they can; and that is ISRAEL
Dmitriy
@Brian:
Yeah except “the zionist state”
doesn’t execute gays like many of these “islamic states”
Dmitriy
@sal(the original):
Do you actually believe that only extremists want sodomy laws in Muslim countries?
@Mark:
Yeah I mean life was wonderful for Jews in both Europe and the Islamic world:
what with the blood libel, forced expulsions, burnings at the stake, forced conversions, and pogroms; we certainly have nothing to be angry about, right?
Over the centuries your kind has certainly made all Jews feel welcome.
B
Vlad said, “Why would anyone who isn’t Jewish respect their claim to Palestinian land based on some story in a book from thousands of years ago that says that god has given them this land?”
How about U.N. Resolution 181, which formed a Jewish state in that area? Of course, what some Israelis might not want to mention is what this resolution actually authorized, as shown in http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png/327px-UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png (the part in orange is what was originally supposed to be Israel, and it was obviously designed by committee).
Rafael Alencar
PALESTINE X ISRAEL X MUSLIN X JEWISH = GAY ISSUE
1) PALESTINE & ISRAEL: FIGHTING FOR THE COUNTRY.
2) MUSLIN: AS FAR AS I KNOW THIS RELIGION HATES GAY PEOPLE & WE SEE EVERYDAY HEADLINES ABOUT GAYS BEING KILLED IN OTHER MUSLIN COUNTRIES.
3) JEWISH: I DON’T HAVE A SINGLE RECORD ABOUT JEWISH KILLING GAY PEOPLE ANYWHERE IN THIS WORLD.
No matter if you are Muslin, Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Buddhist,etc… We all know: There is only ONE religion in our present time that kills gays in the name of “G’d”.
There is only ONE religion that kills their own family in the name of “G’d”.
There is only ONE religion that kills the members of their own religion in the name of “G’d”.
There is only ONE religion that may kill YOU if you write or speak any critical about it.
There is only ONE religion that wants to scare the whole world.
There is only ONE religion that kills their own selves in matter to kill others.
They don’t even respect their own lives.
Do you think they will respect yours ?
This is something that we (gays) have to think about.
Jon B
@Bill Perdue: You’re a complete nutter, huh? Making Sal (the original) look sane is a feat, and you’ve jumped that bar with inches to spare. Kudos!
Bill Perdue
@Charles Merrill: you have stories. I have facts. See above. @Bill Perdue:
Now please be so kind as to answer a question or two about democracy.
First, to democracy lovers do this:
[img]unhttp://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/norbertbugeja/2008/05/04/reg03.jpgdefined[/img]
Second, the zionist colonial administration operates a cruel apartheid system to exploit Palestinians. Desmond Tutu, who can be considered an expert on such matters says he was “very deeply distressed” by a visit to the Holy Land, adding that “it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa”. Is Tutu, the recipient of international awards for the defense of GLBT right wrong or right. If he’s right is apartheid democratic or reactionary and racist.
Third, in addition to its colonialist apartheid practices the zionist regime denies basic items like adequate food, medical and educational services. It subjects Palestinians to constant military attacks aimed a causing civilian causalities. The attack in January this year took the lives of 1600 civilians, including over 300 children. Every time shells landed on a school some IDF or zionist source would issue an “oops” statement. http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/dec08.html
Simcha Leventhal, an IDF vet describes these wanton attacks here: http://www.alternet.org/rights/124814/israeli_veteran:_gaza_attacks_marked_my_military's_moral_low/
The net effect of these denials of food and medicine and intermittent killing sprees by the IDF is clearly a case of ethnic cleansing.
The solution is the creation of a democratic, secular Palestinian state in all territory historically (aka, before 1947) defined as Palestine and the withdrawal of all US forces from the region accompanied by a denial of any form or aid for the zionists. If the racist South African state changed then the racist zionist state can too.
Bill Perdue
@Jon B: No I’m not a nutter nor are the folks I quote who representat the left and the right, zionists and anti-zionists and international civil rights groups. See no 84 and 63.
So, as it turns out, I’m not a nutter but you a lying defender of zionist aparthied and ethnic cleansing.
Bill Perdue
@marc: I didn’t say barebacking, I said unsafe sex. Learn to read, and as soon as you check this out…http://www.gaypornblog.com/archives/2009/03/gay_entrapment_arrests_in_new_york_porn_stores_now_movie_of_the_week.html
Lucas is a turd who sentences men to death paying them to perform unsafe sex.
Jon B
@Bill Perdue: I feel dirty responding to you because, as I said before, you are a nutter. You say that Israel “subjects Palestinians to constant military attacks aimed a causing civilian causalities. The attack in January this year took the lives of 1600 civilians, including over 300 children. Every time shells landed on a school some IDF or zionist source would issue an “oops” statement.” Really? Israeli attacks are “aimed a causing civilian causalities?” First off, I believe you meant to say “aimed at causing civilian “casualties.” Secondly, that is an absurd statement. The Israeli bombings have killed many civilians, this is true, but to claim that that is their goal is out and out horse shit. The fact of the matter is that Palestinians shoot missiles into Israel, from civilian locations such as schools and hospitals, and then act shocked when, upon retaliation (and admittedly often times that retaliation is a bit heavy handed), civilians are killed.
Furthermore, your hypocracy would be laughable if it weren’t so historically insensitive when you use the term “ethnic cleansing” for Israeli actions in regards to the Palestinians. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Palestinian people elect an actual Terrorist organization to lead them. One which I may add has actual ethnic cleansing of Jews and the Jewish State as a stated agenda in their charter. On top of that, the Palestinians still refuse to acknowledge the existance of Israel as a country, except to say that it shouldn’t exist. Uh huh… it’s the Israelis that are guilty of “ethnic cleansing.”
You’re as crazy as those fucking tea-baggers on the right. You and Glen Beck should have coffee sometime and come up with fun conspiracy theories and lies to perpetuate on a broad scale.
Merv
The three eternal truths:
Christianity = Hate
Islam = Terrorism
Judaism = Genocide
Any questions?
Jon B
@Bill Perdue: Also, it’s racist and anti-semitic to refer to Israel as “the Zionist Regime,” or the “Zionist conlonial administration.” Those terms reek of white supremacist propaganda, and in fact have their roots in Neo-Nazi movements right here in the US of A. I believe it was Erik Thompson who started using the acronym “ZOG” for “Zionist Occupation Government.” But then again, I bet you are so f’ing nuts that you believe that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are actual Jewish texts. By the way, those are taught in Palestinian schools as if they were factual accounts of the Jewish people’s plan for world domination, and futhermore, the Hamas charter refers to them. If you want people to take you seriously, stop using loaded language that clearly indicates all sorts of escalated paranoia.
Also, in response to your question about Democracy loving or something like that, I am fairly certain you do not actually know what democracy means. Go look it up sometime.
Jon B
@Merv: I have a question, WTF are you talking about?
Jon B
@Merv: I need to elaborate on my “WTF are you talking about?”
WTF are you talking about? Judaism = Genocide? I’m pretty that for 5000 years, it has been Jews that have been on the recieving end of attempted genocides at the hands of the Christians, Muslims, and also several aetheist regimes. I’d really love to know what the hell you are talking about. Please, go look up the Spanish Inquisition and THE HALOCAUST. You may also want to look up the terms Blood Libel and Pogrom. Unless I somehow developed a case of historical dislexia, I’m fairly certain in every one of those cases the Jewish people were the ones being wiped from the face of the planet. Oh, yeah, and if you’re referring to some sort of imaginary genocide against the Arabs or Palestinians, I would like to hear your take on the 1967 Six-Day War, during which Israel had to fend off the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Sudan, Tunisia, Algeria. Or how about the Yom Kippur war several years later?
Furthermore, Islam doesn’t equal terrorism, and Christianity doesn’t equal hate. Stupid Muslims and stupid Christians are responsible for those things. This is coming from a devout atheist.
Bill Perdue
@Jon B: “I feel dirty responding to you”. You are dirty, you’re a rightwing apologist for ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Nothing in politics is dirtier than that.
The aim of zionist military attacks on civilians, from Deir Yassin in 1948 to Gaza in January 2009 are ethnic cleansing to clear land for settlements or make it secure. Denying that is a lie. You’re a liar, but not a very good one.
I make no defense of Hamas or other groups who engage in terror attacks. Those are loser strategies. You do make a defense of zionist terror attacks, apartheid and the denial of food and medical services. You’re a racist and that’s something you’re good at.
But don’t respond to me. Respond to Tutu about apartheid and to the authors at http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/dec08.html about targeting civilians. And reply to Simcha Leventhal, an IDF who describes these wanton attacks here: http://www.alternet.org/rights…..y_military’s_moral_low/
Bill Perdue
@Jon B:
Sorry little Jon. I’m not an anti-Semite. Zionist right-wingers use that bullshit accusation when the facts against them pile up and are irrefutable. You’re like Bill O’Reilly or Russ Limbaugh. Every time you get set to make some outrageous like you wrap yourself in the flag. It’s most definitely not racist or anti-Semitic to refer to Israel as “the zionist regime or state” because the zionist state, regime/colonial administration is a US puppet state from which to stage raids on Arab oil if all else fails. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are anti-Semitic texts and only idiots think they’re valid. They have almost as much validity as the zionist colonial state.
I’m a socialist and I know exactly what democracy means and that political democracy is not possible without economic democracy.
Jon B
@Bill Perdue: First of all, I’m a democrat you nut bag. A very progressive democrat at that. WTF are you talking about wrapping shit in a flag like Bill O’Reilly? We’re not talking about patriotism, we’re talking about racism and anti-semitism. Again, using loaded terms like Zionist Colonial State is fucking anti-semitic. Additionally, I’m fairly certain that Israel is a valid state; thus far it is only you and a handful of Arab countries that claim otherwise, so defending your crazy status against believing in the protocols of the elders of zion just flew out the window. Just so you know, claiming a country isn’t valid, or doesn’t exist, doesn’t make that statement true. Live in reality, buddy. If I sound like Bill O’Reilly, than I sound like him during one of his rare sane spells. You, however, sound like those imbecile birthers shouting about Obama’s birth certificate, or the tea baggers shouting about god knows what. Just because they claim he’s not the president doesn’t mean he’s not. Just because you claim not to be crazy/anti-semitic/sensationalist/paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not, in fact, you’ve proved otherwise on these very boards.
Bill Perdue
@Jon B: “First of all, I’m a democrat…” Like I said you’re a right winger. The Democratic Party is a right centrist party. Anyone who thinks that a Democrat can be a leftist is delusional and you’re nothing if not delusional. Yours is the party of genocidal wars to steal oil, the party of deregulation, NAFTA and other anti-union policies and the party of DOMA and DADT. Yours is the party that rejects socialized medicine out of hand. Your party give all out unceasing support to the murder of Palestinians by the zionist state.
Your equivalent of Limbaugh’s wrapping himself in the flag is to toss out lies charging anti-Semitism when it’s clear that you do that because you can’t build a defense for zionist crimes against Palestinians. The facts are all against you.
Bill O’Rielly doesn’t have any sane moments and neither do you. Equating anti-zionism and anti-Semitism is bullshit. At least that’s what a political science professor named Norman Finkelstein thinks. He’s the author of The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering and several other books. In the first part of his book he discusses the growing tendency of pro-Israel commentators to use spurious charges of anti-Semitism to deflect and discredit legitimate criticism of Israel. The second, much longer, part is a line-by-line debunking of The Case for Israel, which he compares to Communist apologetics for Stalinist Russia. Finkelstein cites human rights organizations like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the Israeli group B’Tselem to document Israeli abuses in the occupied territories, including killings of Palestinian civilians, torture of Palestinian prisoners and home demolitions. he presents a wealth of evidence on the human rights situation in the occupied territories, so often ignored in American debate on these issues.
There’s an excellent interview with Finkelstein in Counterpunch written by real as opposed to delusional leftists. Check it out. Maybe it’ll help pry open your bigoted closed little mind. I doubt it but we can always hope. http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein1.html
Jon B
@Bill Perdue: What facts? You’re citing opinions of Norman Finklestein, a dude who couldn’t get tenure at DePaul University. And they are just that, opinions, not facts. I honestly don’t really care to discuss this any further. We disagree, on two important issues, 1) the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, and 2) your sanity. It doesn’t seem like we’ll ever come to an agreement, and as they say, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Now you go ahead and keep advocating for the dismantling of Israel and the creation of a socialist uptopia called Palestine to rise up out of its ashes, or in this case grains of sand. While you’re waiting you may as well make like an ostrich and stick your head in that sand. This will not only allow you to remain blissfully (scratch that, there’s no way you’re blissful about anything) unaware of the realities of the world around you, but also muffle the crap that spews forth from your mouth/fingers.
sal(the original)
@Dmitriy: “Do you actually believe that only extremists want sodomy laws in Muslim countries?”well Do you actually believe that only extremists want sodomy laws in israel?
sal(the original)
@thomas: Little Palestinian girls are usually being rapped by big Palestinian men and then killed by their own fathers as part of Islamic tradition of “honor killings”umm soo i guess the soldiers that killed this girl were doing what was right,yeahhhhhhhh nice come back thomas
Sug Night
If you’re gay and you read this website, do you always have to hear about Michael Lucas?
sal(the original)
@Jon B: “You seem to be a lost cause” ummm a lost cause like America when they say dont continue your new building projects in israel?like the UN when they call you out on the human rights violations you carry out on people?lmao
sal(the original)
@thomas: “Little Palestinian girls are usually being rapped by big Palestinian men and then killed by their own fathers as part of Islamic tradition of “honor killings”soooo i guess dropping bombs indiscriminately on them rights that wrong huh?depriving them of stuff makes you guys the bigger folks huh?i like that philosophy ya got there….boy i wonder how you guys got in this mess….lmao
Joey
Michael Lucas needs to talk less and suck more cock.
hardmannyc
Oh yay, I knew Bill Perdue would weigh in. Hey, Bill, go to the Palestinian Territories and tell them you suck cock. I promise we’ll give you a proper burial.
Merv
@Jon B: “I’m pretty that for 5000 years, it has been Jews that have been on the recieving end of attempted genocides at the hands of the Christians, Muslims, and also several aetheist regimes.”
Christianity has been around only 2000 years, and Islam less than 1500. What did happen around 3000 years ago, according to the Book of Numbers, is that the Israelites, after suffering a plague, commited genocide against a neighboring tribe, the Midianites, by slaughtering every single man, woman, and male child of that tribe (they kept the female children as slaves).
Certainly Jews suffered horrible persecution throughout their history, up to modern times. That makes their treatment of the Palestinians even more despicable. Early Zionists understood the moral implications, and talked about it openly. Lately, they have become intransigent, making peaceful resolution impossible.
“I would like to hear your take on the 1967 Six-Day War, during which Israel had to fend off the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Sudan, Tunisia, Algeria. Or how about the Yom Kippur war several years later?”
I would like to hear your take on the 1956 war when Israel invaded Egypt and attacked Jordanian civilians.
Dmitriy
@Merv: @sal(the original):
Israel got rid of its sodomy laws in 1988:
in addition they have made several pro LGBT laws
which the arab nations have yet to do
sal(the original)
@Dmitriy: yes thats nice for israelis but what about your gay palestinian brothers and sisters?you’re not getting it,killing/mistreating innocent civilians(that includes your gay brothers and sisters) in gaza cannot be ok
sal(the original)
@Dmitriy: forcing them to live in inhumane circumstances is not ok,israelis have it good compare to the palestinians…..the world community can say whatever and you guys do what you want and they still at the end of the day stand by you,you got it good….i cry for my palestinian gay brothers and sisters cause they dont just face bad by some of their people but they also face this by the so called good folks that the israli claim to be because you label em all as evil cause they are muslim and palestinians
Jason
Lukas is right on the money! These quit guys are uninformed, self-hating embacyls. Only a moron would support a murderous regime that advocates, supports and who’s forces facilitate the oppression, murder and torture of gay people. What’s next for quit? marches supporting the kkk?
Dmitriy
@sal(the original):
thanks but I’m more concerned with them than the fact that malls and restaurants that I’ve visited have been blown up along with the people inside by Palestinian terrorism
sal(the original)
@Dmitriy: when you can kill a little child/children what makes me think you would be sympathetic with an adult male who might be gay??
sal(the original)
@Dmitriy: so the solution is attack back??how well has that been going?
sal(the original)
@Dmitriy: kill innocent folks on the other side,thats the solution?
sal(the original)
i think the solution can be take out the moderate folks in gaza and israel and let the radicals on the both sides behind and let their closed minds destroy each other until no one is left behind and then start over with a united country
Dmitriy
@sal(the original)
I think that they should just have two separate countries based on the 1948 borders
neither would ever want to be united at this point in time
edgyguy1426
The reason for the Wall and apartheid is that men, women, and children have been walking onto Israeli bus, restaurants, markets and other places of business and blowing themselves up. Now we have the wall and the checkpoints, and as a matter of self-defense, I think the wall is working out pretty well.
Mark
@edgyguy1426: why should they accept it? They are treated worse than the jews were treated by the nazi’s… It’s their land. I don’t care that thousands of years ago it belonged to the jews. Like we are gonna give back the land to the Indians?
Mark
@edgyguy1426: If the jews had stayed in Europe and the US, we wouldn’t need a wall.
hardmannyc
@Mark: ” They are treated worse than the jews were treated by the nazi’s”
That statement alone (aside from your blatant anti-semitism) would render anything you say null and void. Dude, whatever hassles and attacks the Palestinians on the West Bank and Gaza are enduring, it is not commensurate with the Jews in the early 1940s in Eastern Europe.
sal(the original)
oy!!again my heart goes out to the REAL powerless folks in gaza,who cant move without israel dictating to em what they can and cant do . israel dictates to the world community and peaceful groups like un and red cross what they can and cant do even in situations where these groups are desperately needed….
sal(the original)
the only sin some palestinians have done is being born in gaza.they are attacked,called with no distinction terrorists,live in squalor and on top of that must be treated like less than animals,i see those conditions and it BREAKS MY HEART!!that could be any of us…you could be callin me a terrorist(and be intimidating the world community to agree with ya)if i was born there,that is scary
Merv
@edgyguy1426: “The reason for the Wall and apartheid is that men, women, and children have been walking onto Israeli bus, restaurants, markets and other places of business and blowing themselves up.”
And what’s the reason for the settlements? Is moving huge numbers of armed extremist settlers into an occupied area not a deliberate provocation? How does that in any way serve the interests of peace?
Ever looked at a map of Palestinian controlled areas of the West Bank? The West Bank is already a rump state, but even the rump state has been turned into Swiss cheese, with only a small area for the Palestinians, and the rest given over to illegal settlements. Actions speak louder than words, and Israel’s actions show that their Palestinian policy is little more than a land grab.
To rework the famous Golda Meir quote: There will be peace only when Israelis love their children more than they love Palestinian land.
Dmitriy
@Mark:
and you can only say that because your a GOY, you have no personal stake in this:
you compare their treatment to the Holocaust: because to you the holocaust is nothing more than a fact in a history book
stay in Europe?
you might find this shocking but Jews might not want to be a minority in every place that they live
I guess its really too much to ask for especially after the centuries of pogroms and expulsions not to mention the ethnic cleansing of millions, right?
Qjersey
When will we all learn that Goolander only draws with black and white crayons and only speaks to draw attention to himself and his latest releases?
Bill Perdue
@Jon B: We disagree on a lot more than that.
I’m a socialist and like most Democrats, you’re a Republican in drag. I’m against racism and colonialism, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. You embrace them.
But I do agree that it’s doesn’t do any good trying to educate rightwing sheep. It just irritates them and they go right on being sheep.
Bill Perdue
@hardmannyc: Oh yay, I knew Bill Perdue would weigh in. Hey, Bill, go to the Palestinian Territories and tell them you suck cock. I promise we’ll give you a proper burial.
Although I’m proud to be a commie cocksucker I wouldn’t visit there any more than I’d visit the GLBT center in Tel Aviv. Too dangerous. Racist islamophobic jackasses like you don’t want to admit it but the homohating of all three abrahamic religions is a threat to GLBT folk.
You on the other hand might want to go to a meeting of Iranian workers or students after one of their demos in Teheran and tell them you want to seem them burned to death in a nuclear attack. Just don’t assume there would be much left to bury.
edgyguy1426
@Merv: If you looked at my above posts, you’ll see that I don’t agree with the policies of B. Netanyahu, either. I agree with the American policy and most other Europeans that increasing settlements is doing more harm than good. Hopefully the Palestinian people will realize that Hamas cares little about improving life in general for their people and that the people will vote in a more liberal government. Hopefully the Israelis will learn that as well, but when Barak tried to reverse the extreme policies of Netanyahu, that didn’t work out so well, either.
The violent tactics by the Palestinians did much in determining their way of life now. You want to send people across to blow themselves up and as many Israelis as they can take with them? You’re gonna get a Wall. You want to take the land Israel turns over and use it to send rockets back into Israel during a cease fire? You’re asking for retaliation. Unfortunately they got too much than what they asked for. Breaks my heart, please.
Dan
If you really love Palestinians so much go to Gaza and hold up a sign that says “I’m Gay and I am very pro-palestinian!!” Do it. I dare you.
If you try the same thing in Israel, you can get a civil union with another guy (more than this country can say).
The gay community really should be embracing Israel. It is the only country in that entire region of the world where you can be openly gay.
TheBigotBasher
You can support the states of both Palestine and Israel, without being anti Islam or anti Semetic. You most certainly should be able to oppose the policies of the current Israeli Government, without being accused of being either anti Israel or anti Semetic.
Simple, but so many fail to understand that.
TheBigotBasher
@Dan: Iraq was until we invaded it.
Seth
How interesting- I’m gay and my best friends who helped me to come out and supported me every step of the way are both straight; one from Palestine and the other Iranian..
Lucas needs to shut the fuck up –
Adam
FUCK PALESTINE. If anyone would do their history, you’d learn that the Palestinians were granted their land in Jordan, but the fuckers chose to remain in Israel, despite signing a treaty saying otherwise.
And let me share some interesting poll results with you:
62% of Israelis support same-sex marriage and 60% support same-sex adoption.
In the Palestinian Territories, only THREE PERCENT find homosexuality to be moral!
Adam
P.S.
If you get married in a foreign country or state that allows same-sex marriage, Israel will recognize it! In other words, along with its anti-discrimination laws and continuos commitment to LGBT rights in the UN, Israel is the 8th most progressive nation concerning gay rights.
In Gaza Strip, homosexuality remains illegal, and in both territories, death squads frequently kill anyone perceived to be homosexual.
And if Israel is somehow wrong for defending their territory against unjust attacks, I guess the US should have stayed the fuck away from Japan after they bombed Pearl Harbor.
Merv
@Adam: “If you get married in a foreign country or state that allows same-sex marriage, Israel will recognize it!”
Unless you marry a Palestinian. Actually, they technically will recognize it, but your spouse will not be permitted to join you in Israel. However, your children can remain in Israel! Oh, but only until they reach the age of 12, at which time they will be forced to emigrate from the only country they have ever known. What an enlightened country!!!
Merv
@Adam: “And if Israel is somehow wrong for defending their territory against unjust attacks, I guess the US should have stayed the fuck away from Japan after they bombed Pearl Harbor.”
A better analogy would have been if after the US defeated and occupied Japan it had brought in 15 million heavily armed extremist settlers (20% of the population) to subjugate and humiliate the population. Would anyone argue that’s reasonable? That’s what Israeli apologists do every day.
Scott in NYC
Oh please, Merv. The Palestinian leadership – from Arafat to Hamas – has subjugated, killed, “humiliated” and stolen from the Palestinian people for a long, long time. I’d like to see somebody make an issue of the fact that the people in the territories have lived in squalor for as long as I have been alive, and somehow Arafat died with a billion dollars in his bank account.
Michael Lucas
Dear Mr. Hausliab:
You are missing the point of my “Queers for Palestine?” article.
LGBT organizations are not known to fight for causes other than our own. Have you ever heard of “Gays against genocide in Congo”, where millions have been slaughtered? Or “Gays against Chavez” who has dismantled democracy in Venezuela? Or “Gays for North Korea” where hunger and occasional mass starvation are endemic?
Of course not. So it’s quite a coincidence that out of all the possible causes in this world there is a gay group fighting the “occupation” of homophobic Palestine.
Wouldn’t it be more logical to fight for the rights of gays in Palestine? Where the only option for a gay person is either to flee to Israel or London or Paris — or face horrible death! But no — that issue goes unspoken as do the killings of thousands of gay people throughout the world of Islam. So what other explanation is there for this than rank anti-Semitism? Enough with the bullshit. Give me the name of one LGBT organization other than “Queers for Palestine” that fights for any human rights agenda other than a gay one. NONE. So no coincidence here. This organization was created out of purely anti-Semitic feelings.
It’s really sad that neither you nor many of your readers get this basic point. And because of the tone and nature of your postings, your site attracts the worst of the gay community.
The bulk of the comments that your article has generated prove my point. I’m sorry to say this, but the majority of your readers are an uneducated, disgusting, anti-Semitic bunch of lunatics that made the good word “liberal” equivalent to delusional.
TheBigotBasher
@Scott in NYC: Wouln’t sanctions and blocking of any meaningful access in and out of Palestine have had a role in impoverishing the Country?
Dmitriy
@Vlad:
It’s not about God, it’s simply the fact that this particular piece of land that is the historic home of the Jewish people. If the Jewish people were never forced to leave this place, their history of suffering at the hands of religious majorities would be virtually non-existent.
But back to god: do muslims not believe that Israel is theirs?
Last time I checked the HAMAS charter clearly says so.
Mike
@Dmitriy: If, if , if , if…That was thousands of years ago! They need to get over it
hardmannyc
@Bill Perdue: “You on the other hand might want to go to a meeting of Iranian workers or students after one of their demos in Teheran ”
No way. I spend my vacation time in pleasant locales, not repressive shitholes. You, on the other hand, ought to be out in the fields, helping Fiedel’s comrades bring in the banana crop.
Dmitriy
@Mike:
Why is the reality of Jewish persecution everywhere they went hard to swallow?
Mark
@Dmitriy: It’s not hard to swallow at all! They need to get over it. Like everybody else. And not use it as an excuse to do all the evil things they’re doing..
Rashid
@Vlad: Someone who actually knows what the hell their talking about.
RP
Bill Perdue, let’s make love.
Lucas is an indoctrinated colonialist idiot, but I can’t necessarily blame him 100% for having this view, most people in the US and Israel are indoctrinated into this belief system.
There have been human rights groups from B’Tselem to Amnesty International to Human Rights Watch which all condemn Israel (and US-supported) terrorism, as well as Palestinian violence. But the facts are that Palestinians have suffered much more than Israelis have. The United Nations recently declared, twice, that every single settlement which Israel puts up is illegal, but Natenyahu heaps embarrassment upon the UN, as does the US. Israel does not want a two-state solution. They want all the Palestine to be destroyed, which equals genocide.
Neturei Karta is a Jewish organization against Zionism, are they anti-Semitic? Are Jewish authors like Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein anti-Semitic, or just self-hating Jews or, perhaps “sandnigger-lovers”? What about the substantial evidence that genetically Palestinians (who are indigenous unlike many Israelis) are more Semitic than Israeli citizens?
I certainly hope that before Israel enacts a Final Solution of some sort (which is not an irrational question especially considering the massacre of Gaza recently), gays, who are not inherently “queer”, can snap to their senses and stop these atrocities.
Lucas’ support for Israeli policy is ipso facto how being gay ? queer. Queer means valuing life, challenging all oppression and critical thought beyond even the best-disguised, grossly self-interested.
Sam
@James: Some gay people like yourself forgot Palestine was the first to recognize homosexual as legal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTV2QmS-FQ
Jon B
@Sam: First of all, that video is bullshit. It uses half truths and distorted facts. You can usually tell when this is the case because comments are disabled. Second, what is with you (both in this comment section and in your video) using the term homosexual, rather than homosexuality? It is very odd and off-putting.
You would be hard pressed to compare the lives and freedoms enjoyed by gays in Israel to those in the Palestinian territories. From Wikipedia: “Israel, Jordan, Turkey, Iraq and Cyprus are the only countries in the Middle East where homosexuality between consenting adults in private is not illegal and homosexuals are not persecuted under law. In most other Middle Eastern countries homosexuality is illegal, often punishable by flogging and even hanging. Israel was the first country in Asia where homosexuals were protected by anti-discrimination laws, and remains the only country in the Middle East to provide such legal protection.”
Furthermore Tel Aviv is a akin to New York and San Francisco in terms of gay populations and gay culture.
The fact that you responded like a year after this conversation ended should have stopped me from responding, but I didn’t want you to get the last word.