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Is Iraq About to Execute Criminals Sentenced for ‘Homosexuality’?

gayiraqis

More than 100 prisoners are on death row in Iraq, and officials plan to begin executing them in batches of 20. But some of them stand accused not of any real crime, but merely “being gay,” and will soon be put to death if international forces don’t step in, according to the United Kingdom’s gay rights group Iraqi-LGBT.

Amnesty International has also stepped in, demanding the names of all 128 death row prisoners, which will help determine who among them received nothing close to a “fair” trial, reports UK Gay News. This, in a country where being gay is rewarded with rape by militia groups, even though the law supposedly protects gay men and women, now plans to execute citizens for their “morals.”

And remember: It was just a few weeks ago Sec. of State Hillary Clinton told the European Parliament, “Human rights is and always will be one of the pillars of our foreign policy. In particular, persecution and discrimination against gays and lesbians is something we take very seriously.” Step it up, Hillary.

According to Ali Hili of Iraqi-LGBT, the Iraqi authorities plan to start executing them in batches of 20 from this week. There is, said Mr. Hili, at least one member of Iraqi-LGBT who are among those to be put to death.

And the London-based group, which believes that a total of 128 executions are imminent, is calling on the UK Government, international human rights groups and the United Nations Human Rights Commission in Geneva to intervene “with due speed” to prevent “this tragic miscarriage of justice” from going ahead.

“We have information and reports on members of our community whom been arrested and waiting for execution for the crimes of homosexuality,” Mr Hili told UK Gay News.

“Iraqi-LGBT has been a banned from running activities on Iraqi soil,” he revealed.

“Raids by the Iraqi police and Ministry of Interior forces cost our group [to the extent of] diapering and killing of 17 members working for Iraqi-LGBT since 2005.

“The death penalty has been increasing at an alarming rate in Iraq since the new Iraqi regime reintroduced it in August 2004.

“In 2008, at least 285 people were sentenced to death, and at least 34 executed. In 2007 at least 199 people were sentenced to death and 33 were executed, while in 2006 at least 65 people were put to death.

“The actual figures,” Mr. Hili suggested, “could be much higher as there are no official statistics for the number of prisoners facing execution.”

Iraqi-LGBT is concerned that the Iraqi authorities have not disclosed the identities of those facing imminent execution, stoking fears that many of them may have been sentenced to death after trials that failed to satisfy international standards for fair trial.

Most are likely to have been sentenced to death by the Central Criminal Court of Iraq (CCCI), whose proceedings consistently fall short of international standards for fair trial, Mr. Hili said.

“Allegations of torture are not being investigated adequately or at all by the CCCI. Torture of detainees held by Iraqi security forces remains rife.

By:           editor editor
On:           Mar 31, 2009
Tagged: , , , ,

  • 47 Comments
    • RainbowPhoenix
    • rogue dandelion
      rogue dandelion

      the fruition of democracy in iraq…

      Mar 31, 2009 at 1:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason in WV
      Jason in WV

      Sounds like someone listened to the hate-mongering of GW…

      Mar 31, 2009 at 1:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • InExile
      InExile

      Our government really does not care about gay people. When is the march on Washington for equality? If we cannot get our government to act on our behalf here, how can we get them to act in Iraq?

      Mar 31, 2009 at 2:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      Not only bad news from Iraq but gay activists have been arrested in Russia for the crime of being gay.

      http://www.ukgaynews.org.uk/Archive/09/Mar/3101.htm

      MOSCOW, March 31, 2009 (GayRussia.ru) – Two organisers of Moscow Gay Pride were arrested yesterday by police in Ryazan, a city located 200 km southeast of Moscow.

      Nikolai Baev and Irina Fet were detained in the city centre and charged with “propaganda of homosexuality to minors”, an offence that carries a fine.

      The two were later released from custody on the promise that they would appear in Court.

      This morning, they appeared in court which adjourned the case for a week for the police papers to be studied.

      Nikolai Baev and Irina Fet were part of a group of four activists – including Nikolai Alekseev and a local activist from Ryazan.

      They were carrying several banners in the city centre, close to a school and a library when the police made the arrests.

      “In many other countries, homosexuality is explained at schools. In Russia it’s different,” Irina Fet said this morning.

      The activists aimed to denounce a law on ‘administrative’ offences in force in the Russian region of Ryazan since 2006 that forbids the propaganda of homosexuality to minors.

      Ryazan region is one of the regions that compose the Russian Federation – and each region can have its own laws provided none of them breach the Russian Constitution.

      It is the only region of Russia which has a law explicitly banning propaganda of homosexuality.

      The activists claim that the law against “propaganda of homosexuality to minors”, which forbids any discussion of homosexuality with children, is unconstitutional.

      “We came here to denounce a law which is not only homophobic but which is also against the Constitution of this country,” said Nikolai Alekseev.

      “This action was a necessary step to appeal the cancellation of this law to the Constitutional Court.

      “We are giving a strong signal to other regions as well as federal authorities which plan to follow the same path,” he added.

      Last year, the activists managed to obtain from the Ministry of Health the end of the ban on blood donation by gays – a result that is seen as the first success for LGBT rights in Russia since the decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1993.

      Their campaign for Freedom of Assembly in Russia has been going on for four years, with 168 banned gay marches appealed to European Court of Human Rights and the Human Rights Council of the United Nations.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 3:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alex
      Alex

      @InExile: October 14, 2009. Now we just have to plan it. Email me at puckkc at gmail dot com.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      We should have bombed that place to smithereens.

      Democracy doesn’t work. That’s why this country doesn’t have it. But it is especially disastrous when it is mixed with radical Islam.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bigjake75
      bigjake75

      At least Obama wants to talk with more and more crazies. I’m sure they will listen.
      @jason in WV….we dont kill gays here…yet.

      but seriously Sec. Clinton has no credibility. It was her husband who backed down immed on military service for open homosexuals, and gave us DADT. Now, Sec. Gates says that he and Obama have ‘a lot on their plates right now’ and will not be overturning the ban anytime soon.

      Why would anyone around the world take our protests seriously? We elect either open haters or users like Clinton/Obama.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 5:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • getreal
      getreal

      @bigjake75: You are FOS. As someone who has traveled all over the world and seen the treatment of LGBT people in third world countries you sound like an ignorant entitled person. This country has far to go when it comes equality for gays and lesbians but to say someone like “they don’t kill gays here …yet” is terrible. There are many, many places in the world were just the rumor of homosexuality will get you murdered in your sleep. America has a ways to go but let’s still be grateful for our country as there are LGBT people around the world who would give anything for the relative freedom that we take for granted.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      Getreal, Good Grief, I find myself in agreement with you!

      I will have to go and lie down I think, I feel most odd!

      Mar 31, 2009 at 5:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • getreal
      getreal

      @Tallskin: LOL!!!!!

      Mar 31, 2009 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      @Attmay:

      Guess what? Bombing to smithereens doesn’t work either. I think that was tried in Vietnam and Cambodia.

      What we should have done is stay the fuck out of there in the first place – and I am not only talking about George Bush. The Europeans and Americans designed that country at the Paris Peace conference in 1919 and it was a recipe for failure.

      And believe it or not, democracy would work just fine in Asia if the U.S. and Russia would stop behaving like they own the oil.
      Iran was actually a democratic nation until the U.S. overthrew Mossadegh’s government and installed the Shah in 1953.
      Afghanistan also had a democratic system until shortly before the Soviet invasion.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 6:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • greg
      greg

      Is this a protest against the death penalty in Iraq or against its application to gays? Both, I hope. Information is so patchy that it’s hard to know how to focus one’s response. My impression is that gays and lesbians had an easier time under Saddam — not that life was wonderful; just that there was some order in the country that prevented outbreaks of violence against despised groups. When Saddam was deposed, we began hearing reports of religiously-driven mob-violence against gays. Now we hear reports of “at least one” LGBT prisoner awaiting execution (among reports of imminent executions against all kinds of offenders). I would dearly love the US to be in a position to protest *all* executions in Iraq, though we are hopelessly compromised on this issue given our own use of the death penalty. Likewise, our trial procedures against capital offenders are far from perfect. So we’re left with protesting the execution of gays — if there are any such executions planned. That’s something, but not enough.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 6:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bigjake75
      bigjake75

      @getreal:
      maybe if you paid attention to the context of my whole comment you would realize that your attack is misplaced.

      I try to be balance. My comment to Jason in WV was to say that as bigoted as some of our politicians are, we don’t execute people for being gay. It is not W’s fault that Islam sucks and hates gays and women. Yes, I mean that. It was not Christians or buddhists or Hindi that blew up the towers.

      You will also see from the rest of my previous comment that my criticism of America on gay rights is pretty well placed. And yes, HRC has no credibility. And yes, Obama is not pushing the defense department and congress to overturn DADT.

      Relax, and realize that I am grateful to be here. I have also travelled to other countries, and still would not live anywhere else.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 6:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • getreal
      getreal

      @bigjake75: I made no attack I expressed my opinion and i stand by what I wrote.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 6:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bigjake75
      bigjake75

      @getreal: stand by it. why let reality get in the way?

      Mar 31, 2009 at 6:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • getreal
      getreal

      @bigjake75:You are FOS. As someone who has traveled all over the world and seen the treatment of LGBT people in third world countries you sound like an ignorant entitled person. This country has far to go when it comes equality for gays and lesbians but to say someone like “they don’t kill gays here …yet” is terrible. There are many, many places in the world were just the rumor of homosexuality will get you murdered in your sleep. America has a ways to go but let’s still be grateful for our country as there are LGBT people around the world who would give anything for the relative freedom that we take for granted.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      This is nothing new.

      The US has been arming and training both Sunni police and Shiite militia to pit them against each other. These thugs, in addition to targeting each others communities for ethnic cleansing both found time to hunt down, humiliate torture and murder GLBT folks. One young man, 14 years old, was hacked to pieces for being effeminate. (Not all that different from the murder of King a little over a year ago.)

      http://www.blackvoices.com/boards/news-and-sports/bvcaucus/bv-caucus/-/28424/message/1

      When Obama took office he inherited the mantle of war criminal from Bush who’s gotten it from Clinton, the ever so heroic mass murderer of half a million Iraqi children. Watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf83udJfbMs ONLY if you have a strong stomach – it’s horrific.

      That’s why it’s unlikely that Obama will do anything meaningful to end this problem. The terrible inter communal strife in Iraq is just what the US government and military want because it divides Iraq while Texaco/Chevron and others establish hegemony over its petrochemical industries.

      What Obama should do is order an immediate airlift to safety and asylum for everyone threatened with persecution, jail, torture and death and he should do the same for threatened GLBT folk in Jamaica, Uganda, Afghanistan, Poland and Nigeria. But he won’t, not in a millions years. Nor will he take even basic steps like ordering order Hillary Clinton to broadcast that US embassies and consulates everywhere in the world have an open arms policy towards granting asylum and protection for GLBT folks in danger of violence.

      These easy humanitarian steps will never be taken. The US wants instability in the region. That’s why there are over a million dead in Iraq. That’s why the US finances zionist ethnic cleansing in Palestine and why the murder of civilians is increasing in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The dreadful truth is that dead GLBT folks are just ‘collateral damage to Obama and the Pentagon.

      Our bothers and sisters in South Asia and Europe will no doubt launch a campaign to help save those they can and we should support it to our utmost. Anyone who writes the WH or State should include a demand for asylum.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 6:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      If Hillary doesn’t step in to stop this you will know precisely where the US stands with respect to gay rights.

      ACTION = REALITY.

      WORDS = B*LLSH*T.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 6:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • KitKat
      KitKat

      Wouldn’t it be nice to roll back all gay rights and live our private lives in public bathrooms, baths and bars? I’m from the Stonewall generation and wish gay culture were hidden again, because it was exciting to discover it bit by bit in visits to x-rated theaters, where everyone was scared of being exposed and arrested in police raids.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 6:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anderson cooper is my future husband
      anderson cooper is my future husband

      @KitKat: Is that a joke? I say hit up all the public bathrooms you want I prefer equal rights.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 7:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alec
      Alec

      @KitKat: I know. I for one would welcome my new status as a sex offender. I mean, what’s not to love? :-P

      Mar 31, 2009 at 7:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alec
      Alec

      @Bill Perdue: I’m not going to address all of your points, but I was curious about actions by our “brothers and sisters” in South Asia. Is asylum typically granted to people on the basis of sexual orientation there? If so I haven’t heard about it, but I genuinely don’t know.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 7:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      By our ‘bothers and sisters’ I meant GLBT activist groups, and you can find a very good list of them at Gays Without Borders plus tons of information. There are large exile activist groups and ayslum groups in England and Canada.
      http://gayswithoutborders.wordpress.com/

      Get on their e-mailing list to keep on top of things.

      In terms of asylum it’s granted unevenly in the EU, the US and Canada.

      Latino GLBT folks, especially those with HIV/AIDS have died in ICE detention camps without meds. Most of our (few) victories have been in the EU. It depends on how much noise we make. Asylum for Medhi Kazemi was a victory due to intenatinal pressure. Most are not so lucky and are sent back to face certain torture and death. I’m not aware of any amnesty programs in muslim nations, if that’s you question.

      Here’s a very good informative article on the subject by Omar Hassan at GWB that just came out today. http://gayswithoutborders.wordpress.com/2009/03/31/false-hope-lgbt-rights-in-the-middle-east-by-omar-hassan/

      Mar 31, 2009 at 8:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brianna
      Brianna

      Everyone should read this. It’s long, but worth it.

      DYING TO COME OUT: THE WAR ON GAYS IN IRAQ
      http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_5304

      Mar 31, 2009 at 8:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alec
      Alec

      @Bill Perdue: Thank you. I was confused for a minute there. I thought that Europe was ahead of the curve, and I did follow the Medhi Kazemi case, but that site is an excellent resource. I admit that my knowledge of asylum “law” is hazy to nonexistent. I was just curious if asylum petitions were granted on that basis outside of North and South America and Europe (and Oceania, I guess).

      My question wasn’t with regards to Muslim nations. I was thinking more along the lines of India, Nepal or Sri Lanka. But thanks for the links. I bookmarked the wordpress site.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alex
      Alex

      @bigjake75:
      It was not Muslims or Jews or Baha’i that blew up 16th Street Baptist Church, but no one calls the KKK Christian fanatics. Why do you think that is?

      Mar 31, 2009 at 8:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • micael
      micael

      Earlier this month, news also ran in the Guardian that an underground network of folks have been transporting LGBT people out of Iraq.

      Over at change.org, we’ve put up an action alert where you can contact your legislators via email urging Congress to investigate abuses against the LGBT community of Iraq. Here’s the URL:

      http://gayrights.change.org/actions/view/investigate_violence_toward_lgbt_citizens_of_iraq

      Mar 31, 2009 at 8:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alex
      Alex

      Alec: I once read, years ago, an article about Israel granting asylum to LGBT Palestinians, mostly gay men, who faced persecution. The article also reported allegations that the Mossad would sometimes blackmail gay Palestinians into becoming collaborators. The extent to which this still happens, given the restrictions in access over the past 8 years, I do not know.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 9:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alec
      Alec

      @Alex: That, unfortunately, I am more familiar with. Israel, when it comes to its own gay citizenry (Arabic, Jewish and other) is a bastion of hope and light in an otherwise dismal landscape. Unfortunately, the Israeli intelligence services are another matter and yes, they still blackmail gay Palestinians. At least, as far as I know. It makes a great deal of sense from their perspective, but it does cast doubt on the Israeli “commitment” to gay equality.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 9:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Alex: @Alec: The problem is not Mossad blackmailers or even the constant anti-LGBT bigotry among zionist right-wingers and police agencies but the zionists policies towards Palestinians.

      The zionists systematically drive millions of Palestinians out of their homes and homeland with heavy doses of mass murder such as the January 2009 ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza. They deny Palestinians basics like food, housing, medical access, and education and they maintain unremitting apartheid practices. Their apartheid practices were well described by Desmond Tutu, an expert on the subject, who now calls for a divestment campaign against the zionists like the one that brought the SA racists to their knees.

      http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/siun/115651/israeli_attack_on_gaza:_bombs_fall_as_children_go_to_school/

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1957644.stm

      The contrast between the zionists dual policies of expelling and mistreating Palestinians and turning a few token Palestinians as spies doesn’t escape the attention of the mullahs and ayatollahs who use it to incite anti-GLBT hatreds. You can see the effects in the religious and political hostility towards us in groups like sunni Hamas, shiite Hizbullah and the various muslim Brotherhoods.

      Alex said “It was not Muslims or Jews or Baha’i that blew up 16th Street Baptist Church, but no one calls the KKK Christian fanatics. “

      Exactly. The difference between christers and islamists is not how much they want to hurt and sometimes kill people they hate but only their ability to do so. If Karl Rove, Josh Dubois or some other theocrat is successful in eliminating the secular character of the Republic all bets are off.

      Mar 31, 2009 at 10:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • epluribusunumjk
      epluribusunumjk

      You know what really blows? Being gay under Saddam’s rule was not really that big of a deal for most Iraqis (probably similar to being gay under Bush’s – ha!).

      Anyways, this is yet another reason why I don’t think democracy in this region works exceptionally well and why Saddam should have stayed in power.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 12:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      @Bill Perdue:
      Bill, I too am opposed to Israel’s occupation (not Golan – they won that in war), and I think the outcome of the latest election there is just terrible.
      On the other hand you can hardly wonder why they have a siege mentality. You can’t remove their actions from that context of what is around them. Even in the latest conflict Israeli troops committed terrible abuses (some revealed by the troops themselves), but do the militants who continued firing rockets from civilian locations show any concern for the people of Gaza either?

      Until Israel’s neighbours recognize its right to exist the conflict will continue, and like it or not, Israel is not likely to disappear. Plus, it’s the only Middle Eastern country that is a mature democracy, and has at least some respect for the rule of law. If I had to live in one of those countries I know which one I would choose.
      Our governments don’t send suspected terrorists to Israel to be tortured; Syria is the place for that kind of dirty work.

      So sorry Bill, I agree with you again; I am only pointing out you cannot lay all the blame for that situation at Israel’s feet. And blaming Israel for anti-gay actions from muslim clerics is taking it a bit far.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 1:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @strumpetwindsock: You and I don’t agree at all and it’s insulting for you to pretend we do. You excuse christer gay bashers. I don’t.

      On the issue of the zionist colony in Palestine and it’s murderous treatment of Palestinians we disagree just as thoroughly.

      “not Golan – they won that in war” Criminal colonialist states don’t ‘win’ anything, they steal. The zionists notion of peace is to steal a piece of Jordan, a piece of Egypt, a piece of Lebanon and a piece of Syria, gobble Palestine whole and maybe later go after a slice of Turkey and some figs from Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

      “Until Israel’s neighbours recognize its right to exist the conflict will continue…” What’s likely is that if the zionist bunkerstadt doesn’t get its head out of it’s ass and agree to the formation of a secular Palestinian state recognizing the rights of Palestinians to their land pre-1947 and their unlimited right to return they’re likely to be obliterated. Most of us don’t want them obliterated but the time when the US and its client states like England and Canada can rum amok in South Asia is finite. The US military brass will be booted out of Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan just as they were booted out of Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam.

      “On the other hand you can hardly wonder why they have a siege mentality.” The zionists have a siege mentality because they attack everyone around them repeatedly. They consistently kill Palestinians, starve them and deny them food and medicine. They’re violently hated by hundreds of millions of people, just as the US government is for bankrolling zionist apartheid and ethnic cleansing. That hatred can be very dangerous, it lead to the unprovoked and vicious murderous attack on civilians on 9-11.

      Our governments don’t send suspected terrorists to Israel to be tortured; Syria is the place for that kind of dirty work.” Actually it’s more likely that people kidnapped by the CIA and the military would end up in Egypt and Turkey but no one has any figures. At any rate the CIA and US military don’t lease them out to the zionists because they’re too busy murdering and torturing Palestinians in their concentration camps. The victims of kidnap/torture/murder, which is how a street cop would describe the CIAs term ‘rendition’ are no so much ‘suspected terrorists’ as they are anti-zionist and anti-colonialist militants.

      There are over 1 million civilian dead in Iraq and Afghanistan and probably as many in Palestine. They didn’t die because they were well treated by zionists and by the American military brass in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan or by the US’s English and Canadian client states.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 5:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      @Bill Perdue: Your bedsheet is showing, Naziboy.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 10:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      @strumpetwindsock: Are you forgetting Germany and Japan? Bombing DID work, and it’s what they deserved for their actions in WWII.

      West is best. We should have colonized all those worthless dumps and stayed there forever. Then maybe they wouldn’t be so worthless. Colonialism worked. The only bad thing about it at all was the racism of the colonizers. Remove that from the mix and it would not have been nearly as bad.

      Gays would be better off if these regions were still under British colonial rule, considering that while they may have been anti-gay then, Britain is ahead of the US in terms of gay rights.

      The right to self-government must be earned. The “Iraqis” have forfeited it, and the Palestinianazis and Iranianazis do not deserve it until they are fully westernized and de-Islamized.

      The Muslims are an oppressor class. Their homophobia is like Christianity on steroids. Hatred of the religion of gay-bashing is respect for human rights. BigJake75 is right. Just like KKKristianity, Islam does suck and should not be tolerated at all.

      And Bill Chicken, it cannot be said more, that you are a monster. Nazis like you are the reason Israel needs to exist and has a casus belli against every Muslim country. They have more of a right to exist than the United States as far as I’m concerned. Nazis like you are why French Jews are fleeing from their home country in droves. Do you have a picture of Hitler on your nightstand (and no, I don’t believe in Godwin’s “Law”)? What about Yasser Arafat? Osama Bin Laden? These people are terrorists, plain and simple. And you are their enabler.

      Eliminate Islam and Christianity=world peace

      Apr 1, 2009 at 10:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      Oh, and my last post before the ad hominems and accusations of “racism”, look at Hong Kong and see why it was better off than China prior to 1997. Then tell me colonialism is bad.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 10:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      @Bill Perdue:
      Sorry Bill, but I DO agree with you about Israeli aggression. Believe it or not a lot of Israelis do as well. I’m just saying that you are ignoring a lot of the facts and political reality.

      Like it or not, the situation is not going to go back to pre-1947 any more than you or I are going to pack our bags, get off Indian land and fuck off back to Europe – and who would be expected to make room for us there?

      If as you say you don’t want Israel obliterated the best you can hope for is the ’47 UN partition. And as I said, given Syrian aggression I wouldn’t give up Golan either. They lost it fair and square. Also, it’s not up to us to force a secular state on the Palestinians.

      I agree with you entirely that our countries should back off in that region. Unfortunately things have escalated to the point where the Palestinians are being used as pawns by Iran, and the Syrians are doing the same in Lebanon. The U.S. and its allies are not the only ones doing the killing over there. Until both sides back down nothing will change. And unfortunately if the rest of the world does not prevent Iranian attempts to develop nuclear arms, Israel likely WILL take action.

      And I know there are other black sites, but the torture state of choice in all three recent Canadian cases has been Syria:
      http://www.thenation.com/doc/20031201/cole
      http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE49K7F420081021

      But back to the topic at hand (sort of) I assume everyone has heard about the new Afghan family law. Women can’t refuse sex or leave the house without their husbands’ permission:
      http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/03/31/afghan-family-law-women.html

      Nice to be fighting for freedom, eh?

      Apr 1, 2009 at 11:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      @strumpetwindsock: I don’t agree with you but you at least make an attempt at intellectual honesty. It’s a step in the right direction.

      The Palestinians are still the war criminals here. The Hamas charter still calls for the destruction of Israel. Everyone else supported the two-state solution except the Palestinians.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 11:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      @Attmay:
      I’ll stay away from the obvious differences between WWII and the Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts. Bombing can HELP resolve wars – sometimes. But bombing will never change a people who do not want to change.

      I live right next door to your country, so I know a bit about American govenrnments thinking they know what is best for other countries. But the fact is you don’t have the right, and you don’t actually have the power.

      Colonize those worthless dumps and stay there forever? I think I missed that line item in Obama’s budget. Where do you think you will get the money or the people?
      Maybe your country should find Osama bim Laden first before you go running the entire world.

      I actually agree with you in part about colonialism – particularly British colonialism – introducing the rule of law and ending slavery. It was a two-edged sword though, and they have a great deal of blood on their hands, and thought wrongly that they could pound people into submission.

      And read my post. Some of those worthless dumps WERE democratic and using the parliamentary system introduced by the British before we fucked them up. That “west is best” attitude is whacked, I am sorry to say.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 12:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cee
      Cee

      Iraq is a lost cause. You can save a few people, but then what? It does not change the ideals of the country. It doesn’t change the beliefs and the hatred. It only increases the hatred when “International Forces” step in.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 12:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Attmay: You’re a zionist and a racist. Enough said.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 5:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      @epluribusunumjk: So the rape rooms and recreational murders were acceptable as long as it was “not so bad” for gays?

      @Bill Chicken: I’m the racist? You’re the one accusing the Israelis of genocide and rationalizing terrorism and Hamas war crimes. Islam is not a race. The Arabs are a race and you will note I never said a bad word about them, nor will I. Some of them aren’t even Muslim, and some of them are…gasp…gay! If they were not brainwashed by the Mohammedan menace, they would be better off.

      You, on the other hand, Bill Chicken, are a Nazi. A full-fledged, jackbooted goose-stepping Nazi.

      @strumpetwindsock: You proved me right by saying they were using parliamentary systems used by THE BRITISH. Take away the British influence and you wouldn’t have those systems.

      America has never owned an empire. Puerto Rico and Guam don’t count.

      Compare being gay in Europe to being gay anywhere in Asia or Africa. And don’t you dare tell me gays are better off in any of those places. And the threats to gays in Europe are coming from Muslim immigrants who refuse to integrate into the mainstream culture. West is best.

      I’m sure the Imperial Japanese who committed atrocities against the Chinese and Filipinos that outraged even the Nazis “didn’t want to change”, but tough shit. They did, and they’re better off for it. They beat us at our own game; they produce superior cars and electronics to us.

      If a Western power took over a Muslim country and totally secularized it in a few generations, don’t tell me gays wouldn’t be better off there. Forcibly remove religious fanatics = improve the gay situation. It’s really that simple. Why can’t we do it in the USA? Hell, I’d do it to Jamaica.

      The Soviets invaded Afghanistan. We drove them out and left when we obviously were not ready. Perhaps we could have stayed long enough to prevent the Taliban from rising to power.

      But by all means delude yourselves into thinking that the MuSLIME terrorist states have consciences and can be reasoned with.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 6:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Alex: They don’t grant asylum and they do blackmail people.

      The zionists never give asylum to any Palestinians. Their open door policy for Jews is accompanied by a program of driving Palestinians out of their homes and away from their homeland.

      According to The Jewish Daily Forward ,

      “Because they are so vulnerable to blackmail, it is assumed by the families and neighbors of gay Palestinian men — sometimes correctly — that they have been blackmailed into becoming informers, either for Israeli intelligence or for opposition Palestinian factions. So when they meet a violent end, the motivation of the killers is not entirely clear.

      And in Israel? Misinformation abounds. In a 2004 speech at the University of California, Berkeley, Alan Dershowitz said: “I support Israel because I support gay rights. Recently, a progressive congressman, Barney Frank from Massachusetts, worked with me and Israel to grant asylum for 40 Palestinian gays.”

      Alas, not a word of this is true.

      When gay Palestinian men run for their lives into Israel, they do not seek — and they cannot get — “asylum,” which is a special status under international law available to those who can establish a “well founded fear of persecution” in the country of their nationality or “place of habitual residence.” Israel has never granted asylum to Palestinians, gay or not, says Anat Ben-Dor of the Refugee Rights Clinic at the Tel Aviv University Law Faculty — even those who can credibly claim they will be killed if they are sent back to the West Bank or Gaza. This is because Israel interprets international asylum law as inapplicable to Palestinian nationals.

      http://www.forward.com/articles/1125/

      Apr 1, 2009 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @strumpetwindsock:

      Why are you always so pedantically dense? You said “<b.Believe it or not a lot of Israelis do as well.

      I’ve had this list of Jewish and Palestinian sites in my files for about three years and quote from these sites often.

      www . jewishvoiceforpeace . org

      www . electronicintifada . net Best source of up to date news

      www . gush-shalom . org

      www . merip . org Excellent analytical/scholarly site but it’s not free

      http : // www . deiryassin . org/ Report one of the massacres of civilians by Menachim Begins terrorist gang

      www . palestinechronicle . com News and Analysis

      www . fromoccupiedpalestine . org Eyewitness accounts

      www . btselem . org / english / Torture Eyewitness accounts

      http : // www . antiwar . com / roberts /?articleid=11452
      Analysis of American politics and anti-Palestinian activities

      http : // www . alternet . org / story / 62618 / Growing Jewish anti -zionist movement and zionist smear tactics

      www . al-awda . org Right to Return Coalition

      www . couragetorefuse . org / English IDF Refusniks

      http : // www . geocities . com / NoApartheid /

      www . palestinercs . org Palestine Red Crescent Society

      (you’ll have to connect the dots – Queerty’s defense program goes apeshit when it detects lots of links)

      And in the future, instead of lamely trying to patronize real radicals why not expand your dialog with racist loonies like Attmay – I’m sure you’ll find you have lots in common with them and nothing in common with me.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 7:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      @Attmay:
      I have to make supper, so I’ll keep this brief.

      First… the Brits were good, but they weren’t that good.
      Sure they left behind law and democratic traditions, but they also laid mudrdered, abused and enslaved people and destroyed cultures. Like the Romans before them, they had a great culture, but it was built on the backs of the people they colonized.

      Second… The U.S. doesn’t have an empire? Don’t make me laugh:
      Just off the top of my head here are some past and present coutries under direct control of tightly under the U.S. sphere of influence: Canada, Turkey, the Phillipines, Japan, Germany, China, Cuba before the revolution, Israel, Chile, El Salvador and Honduras, All the south pacific states they used for atomic testing, Panama, the current Iraq and Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq under the Shah,

      Like I said, that’s just off the top of my head

      Apr 1, 2009 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      @Bill Perdue:
      Gee Bill, did you actually have a point to make there or am I supposed to filter it out of other peoples’ words?

      Not that I want to encourage your ranting, but the only thing of subtance you seemed to be saying (besides your usual insults) was how much of a “real radical” you are.

      Apr 1, 2009 at 8:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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