Online comedian, voice actor and chest hair model Sam Kalidi creates a new meme each week for Queerty readers. This week he considers members of the gay community who are obsessed with obvious signs of masculinity. Sam looks forward to all your hate mail. You can find him on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and at your local glory hole.
Stephen Rock
No… Next question
Kevin Fitzsimmons
Yes.
Greg Ballard
No. It’s fucking stupid but not homophobic. Just really fucking self loathing.
Jimmy Nolen Araujo
No, it’s a description.
John Kuehnle
I think it’s a preference, all types of people are into all types.
John Malin
So precisely who is being harmed here? Some people like sprinkles and some chocolate on their ice cream, so what?
Rocky Calhoun
Not homophobic but absolutely impacts the community with a negative vibe. A gentleman can turn any guy away in muerous ways without direspecting ones uncontrollable demeanor. It is offensive just not homophobic.
Which is a good question, how does one with a cis male demeanor inform a non cis white male they’re not interested or their type?
Simple.. I choose Pikachu.
Luis Collazo
No
Lestar
People who scream ‘Masc4masc’ usually do not like effeminate men. They don’t want to be associated with ‘those gays that make us look bad.’ It’s hypocritical and downright homophobic.
Ummmm Yeah
That’s it. I’m done with this I have to fuck . No I don’t. Stop pushing for a guilt fuck you little PC rapists. No means no.
Luis Collazo
I laugh when I see str8 for str8
lauraspencer
It’s not homophobic. It’s just stupid and a bit delusional. To this day no man can clearly define to me what is “masculine”. It seems guys have such differing opinions on it.
So a guy has a shaved head, beard and loves sports, but when he opens his mouth he doesn’t have a “manly” voice he is seen as not masculine. Yet, a guy who waxes his chest, shaves his pubes, doesn’t watch sports and has a deep voice is viewed as masculine. A twinkie pretty guy who is a top plows a big, butch looking power bottom and the bottom is still seen in public as being more “masculine”.
In my experience, 90% of the guys who describe themselves as “masculine” never are what I would call masculine. So unless, there is an official definition I think these masc for masc guys are always continue searching for this unobtainable unicorn.
Glücklich
@Ummmm Yeah:
Out of curiosity, does that happen a lot? I mean, out and about, you politely let someone who’s approached you know you’re not interested for whatever reason and have it turn into an uncomfortable situation?
Is it a generational thing? Venue-specific, i.e. loud dance music-y clubs and bars? Or is it on-line only?
I don’t do on-line and find it hard to believe – as in “people really *behave* this way?” – an argument would ensue in public.
Chris-Tyler Young
No. A little shallow, in my personal opinion, but not homophobic.
Cagnazzo82
Gay version of masc is usually a caricature of masculinity.
Not homophobic. Just mostly overcompensating for insecurities.
moldisdelicious
Yes. It’s basically self hatred and internalized homophobia. Can assure you that those types are the ones that ready to kiss the asses of straight people trying to be accepted by them to the point where theyre doing whatever they can to be accepted by them even if it means trashing their own like effeminate men and drag queens. The same guys probably scared to kiss and hold hands in public. That shame is real and sad enough we embrace self hate like it’s the thing to be.
moldisdelicious
@Lestar:
Exactly. It seems like folks can’t own up to their bullshit instead of owning up to it. These same lames go out their way to avoid effeminate men because it exposes the things that they’re ashamed of and hiding.
DDstar1me
No! it’s not homophobic.
It’s like when so called “str8” guys on the DL give me attention because I’m “fem” and it seems like an familiar transition from female to male. Or, when masculine gay men call on me to f**k them in secret. Because the boyfriend at home doesn’t give him the D like me or is afraid to explore sexually so he comes to me and he stays with the boyfriend for public approval.
I can’t tell you how many times I get excited when a masculine gay man that I am attracted to finally gives me attention, all to find out he wants me to top him. So, that’s why I don’t really care about those adds for masc4masc. It’s often a joke. lol! I know what I’m working with and if you don’t want me cause I’m fem? It’s your lose. Not mine.
BJ McFrisky
Homophobic?
Isn’t that as inappropriate a term as “rac1st” would be for Kanye West, since he’s not into black chicks?
The fact that many of us find twinks unattractive isn’t homophobic—just as it’s not “heterophobic” for a man to be turned off by a woman due to her humiliating actions and flamboyant disposition.
DDstar1me
Also, in no way am I implying that all fem’s are bottoms or masc gay guys can’t be bottoms. My point is it’s just a preference and shouldn’t be taken so literally. It is what it is. This masc4masc is just another sub-culture within the gay community.
tdh1980
A rejection of those who defy heteronormative gender roles is just as much a fundamental element of homophobia as intolerance of those with an attraction to members of their same sex (the ultimate counter to traditional gender performance). Therefore, if we’re being completely honest, “masc for masc” is very much homophobic.
Dan Duprey
If a straight guy prefers full-figured women, does that mean he’s afraid of flat-chested people?
juliansorl
It’s both homophobic and stupid. I wouldn’t even want to meet up with such a superficial person. Who thinks in such shallow and basically meaningless terms? I find those that have a type and exclude entire classes of people are usually stuck in some developmental phase or are just plain creepy. Why would anyone close themselves off from the variety that life offers in all its richness and complexity? What small world they must inhabit.
DDstar1me
@ BJ McFrisky…You make some good points. I never thought about it that way.
Masc Pride
Wow, looks like it’s a resounding “No”. I didn’t expect that from this site. I guess it’s really just the same bad apples that whine about this. To cite the preference as homophobia, you’d have to be equating male homosexuality with effeminacy, which would definitely be homophobic.
Cute meme.
@moldisdelicious: Some guys also prefer to avoid effeminate men because fems can frequently be extremely dramatic, super combative (only verbally, of course) and a lot of them like to make scenes for attention. Most people prefer to avoid people with Histrionic Personality Disorder as well, and people with HPD tend to exhibit a lot of those same behaviors.
DarkZephyr
Its a big @ss turn off. I have had guys say “Oh, I am so relieved you don’t sound gay” when we’ve talked for the first time on the phone (not that I personally think I sound overly butch, but I don’t give a crap one way or the other) and I’ve hung up on them. Its a sure b*ner killer for me, because I HATE that kind of exclusionary limiting bullcrap even if its NOT directed right at me. I just can’t do it.
Josh447
@Juliansori
Is it possible you have homophobic mixed up with discernment? From your model we should all date women twinks fat thin bald ugly 80 year olds if we’re 20, or anything that walks down the street, “chemistry” or not. In this world we all have limits, even you. Creating limits isn’t homophobic in this case, it’s human. I don’t like the taste of squash, does that make me squashaphobic?
Everyone is going to have preferences and guidelines, the key is to accept that fact and not take it personally when another person’s preferences don’t exactly match yours. Just move on til the preferences bring happiness. It’s the human condition called separation, can’t live with it and can’t live without it. The trick is knowledge of that fact coupled with acceptance of that fact. Then life gets a whole lot easier and makes a lot more sense.
Keith Ryli McDonald
If people said “fem 4 fem” nobody would even begin to think it was homophobic.
William Blanco
No, sexuality and mannerisms are not the same thing. It’s definitely short sighted, but not homophobic.
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
Offensive? YES …but only to the perpetual outraged hysterics. To anyone one else it’s no more offensive than if it stated fem for fem.
As a decently functioning modern human you should be able to successfully interact on a professional and personal level with any number of the disparate and multitudinous varieties of other humans out there..but who does and who doesn’t make your dick twitch is not under your control and one should you have to apologise for that or kowtow to these whinging hypocritical muthafuckers who pretend that dating apps are anything other than a superficial meat market based often on even courser requirements than a masculine or feminine personality or presentation
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
*one shouldn’t have to apologise for that
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: Your reading comprehension is failing miserably. Most people on here said it is indeed hateful and stupid. And I say it is both but also internalized homophobia.
Your constant belittling of feminine gay men shows you are the real dramatic closet case who isn’t even at terms with his own sexuality. And then you idiotically try to say feminine gay men are reinforcing homophobia? What are you? Stupid?
And histrionic personality disorder… Are you sure you are not describing yourself?
Mask Pride (I love the articles image) is a self loathing hater who says anything to be the center of attention. In other words, you are everything you accuse feminine gay men of doing, hypocrite.
DarkZephyr
@Josh447: well, my “preferences” personally don’t include the “masc4masc” crowd as its a bit turn off for me. The thing is I don’t know that I have ever met a guy with that in his profile description that wasn’t a jerk about his “preferences” and his “feminine” gay brothers. Many are not content to just politely state their preference but have to then launch into an insulting scree about all the bad qualities that “fems” have. Is that even necessary?
And please note that I am not saying that I dislike “masculine” or butch acting men. I like butch and non-butch men both just fine. Not all masculine gay or bi men are anti-“fem” after all or write insulting screes about them. And to be honest, some non-butch gay men can be rather anti-“fem” themselves although they are often under the mistaken impression that they are butch when they are so very much NOT butch. If I was ONLY interested in “masc” men and dated based on that criteria I would probably be disappointed over half the time going on profile descriptions alone. Athleticism does not a butch man make. And that is not a bad thing at all, but there are certainly some self-deluded gay and bi men out there.
Giancarlo85
@Josh447: Another with reading comprehension failure. First off nobody is demanding you date anyone. But this Mask4mask crap goes beyond simple preference… Many od these self loathing bigots go and attack feminine gay men.
Yeah go attack the guys who made equality and visbility happen. People like maskpride and others have done absolutely nothing for our community asides trying to push division and isolation.
So yea, definitely homophobic!
DarkZephyr
@PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID: “but who does and who doesn’t make your dick twitch is not under your control”
Not ENTIRELY true. There is a LOT of truth to your words, but not 100%. There are certain things that you have to learn or even teach yourself to dislike, I firmly believe. Can you choose your sexual orientation? Absolutely not, but you CAN be conditioned or condition yourself to have biases and prejudices related to what turns you on, I definitely and most firmly believe that.
Jonathon Popphan
No. People are attracted to what they are attracted.
DarkZephyr
@PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID: I would like to add that I also believe that you can decondition yourself when it comes to sexual biases and prejudices as well. I have done it myself. Sometimes we convince ourselves that a certain type of person is not attractive or is bad and its all mental mumbo jumbo and not *truly* authentic chemistry. I will always be solely attracted to men, but the TYPES of men I am attracted to has expanded greatly over the years and truthfully that makes me a LOT happier and makes the dating pool a helluva lot less limited and frankly more exciting. At least before I met my fiance. 😀
Masc Pride
You shouldn’t have to “decondition” or psych yourself up to be sexually attracted to the person laying next to you. That sounds rather forced, frustrating, unnatural and dissatisfying.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: Your whole super masculine existence is forced and unnatural. You are trying to be something you are not. This is what makes me laugh the most. Oh and keep pretending you are ignoring me. Your ego will not permit that.
DarkZephyr
@Masc Pride: “You shouldn’t have to “decondition” or psych yourself up to be sexually attracted to the person laying next to you. That sounds rather forced, frustrating, unnatural and dissatisfying.”
I see it the other way around. I see limiting yourself to only one mannerism or speech type as psyching yourself into being sexually prejudiced against certain people. And if it was “unsatisfying” I wouldn’t find it “more exciting” as I mentioned above.
Jim Phoenix
No everyone has their sexual turn ons and attractions. It does not mean they think those that are not are less of a person.
Josh447
Giancarlo85,
If there is hatred mixed in, it then becomes a phobia, a fear, and retaliation can take place. You have hate for the “masc4masc” crowd. In this instance you are Mascaphobic, or homophobic to the “masc4masc” crowd. And in some instances Masc4masc men are femaphobic. If it’s mixed with hate, then you have homophobia. However, many are not hateful, but simply have their preferences. To say ALL masc4masc are homophobic self loathing or bigots is not true. For some it is simply a preference without vitrol towards anyone.
Sweeping statements are very black and white, and that is not the world we live in. We live in a spectral world. To take the extremes and apply it to all is just as damaging as straights saying all gays should go to hell or are sinners. We know this simply is in the opinion category and holds no water. Do you agree that some Masc4masc people have no fear or hatred (phobias) towards fems? And do you see that hating Masc4masc men by calling them all bigots and self loathing is a homophobic trait that you embrace?
onthemark
Not always homophobic, but almost always self-delusional. I bet that if most “Masc 4 Masc” types ever heard a tape recording of THEIR OWN VOICE at any great length, they’d be shocked at how GAY they sound. They might even faint!
Giancarlo85
@Josh447: You are disingenuous and totally wrong. I don’t hate masculine men. I don’t like it when masc men viciously attack feminine gay men. You claim feminine gay men do the same thing but that is a total fabrication. Most of the hate is being tossed by masc4masc men. I am not being “mascaphobic” (nice made up term total fiction).
I do not agree at all. Just about every masc4masc man harbors hatred and resentment towards feminine gay men. We fems are out and more courageous. Next time keep your made up beliefs and arguments to yourself… Stop fabricating accusations. I am not hating anyone by stating the truth… Something a homophobe like you simply will noy accept.
Giancarlo85
@onthemark: A rare time I agree with you.
Masc Pride
@DarkZephyr: Yes, but look at your language and usage of the word “limit”. It’s inaccurate because when people find what they like, they obviously won’t view what they like as a limit. This is why it’s rather silly (and arrogant) to critique each other’s preferences. I’m bisexual, so I could use your logic to say you’re “limiting” yourself to men; wouldn’t that seem rather insulting and imposing? Versatile guys could also tell tops and bottoms they’re “limiting” themselves too. I’ve also yet to see criticism of a preference actually change a preference.
tdh1980
@DarkZephyr: Exactly. So many of the “preferences” we believe are intrinsically hardwired are in fact a product of years of cultural conditioning. Being told all one’s life that a certain thing is more attractive — and yes, we’re taught to think that “masculinity” in a man is more desirable than “femininity” — isn’t something that can’t be turned off. A lot of us simply refuse to do some introspection to fully examine why something so superficial hinders us from disqualifying someone as a potential mate.
Fern8783
This is a great article; I use to be that person but slowly as I matured(I’m 32 now), I’m open to masc or fem or what I like to call being yourself. Yes it’s a preference but it’s also like saying whites only. I’m kinda ashamed that I use to be masc 4 masc only as it’s being homophobic in the gay community; and you wonder why gays suicide rate and drug/alcohol abuse is 3 times that of a straight men? Grow up and get your stuff together guys.
tdh1980
@tdh1980: EDIT — *causes us to disqualify someone as a potential mate.*
Masc Pride
Is fem4masc indicative of self-loathing? Let’s not act like fem guys seeking dom alpha males isn’t just as common.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: Not as common as you think. More FEMS are going for FEMS. And more of us are being top.
Masc Pride
@tdh1980: We’re taught? Isn’t it possible that we desire men because we’re naturally attracted to masculinity? When you ask a guy who his first same-sex crush was, most guys will answer with a straight celebrity that was a popular guy’s guy when they were young. I’ve yet to hear anyone say Elton John, Rupaul or Johnny Weir. lol
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: And more of the same bigotry. For one, feminine gay celebrities are the ones that were out and seen as idols and crushes. If you think that being attracted to the same sex means we are supposed to be naturally attracted to masculinity, then you think wrong. Feminine gay men are men too.
tricky ricky
no emmetts.
Stache99
Wrong way to ask. It should have been “Straight Acting”. That’s homophobic and allot of self hate.
Masc Pride
@Josh447: Don’t waste your time, dude. That bitter little thing is just venting his frustrations with life. Whether you choose to engage him or ignore him, it’ll basically be the same exchange every time. He always has a problem with someone, and he will lie like a rug to prove himself right.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: And his ego just didn’t permit him not to respond to me posting here.
This is ironic. He’s calling me a “bitter little thing”… when he’s the real bitter little thing… bitter little closet case who isn’t masculine enough for the masc4masc men he tries to go for.
And it’s funny you say I have a problem with someone, when you are arguing with just about everyone posting here who disagree with you.
Giancarlo85
People like MaskPride ride on the coattails of the movement. We fems are the ones constantly pushing the envelope and pushing for change in society. People like MaskPride, Russell Tovey and other self loathers merely come on for the ride. They then criticize feminine gay men for the progress they made in changing hearts and minds.
They want everyone to live in the closet like them.
Christopher DeRosa
No but this article is further proof that America is a bunch of pussies.
tdh1980
@Masc Pride: So, you did a study of every gay man who’s ever lived in the modern era of the celebrity which shows incontrovertibly that almost none of them in their formative years ever had a crush on an “effeminate” famous person. If that’s the case, there has to be a Nobel Prize somewhere in your future.
I guarantee you that not a single person born into this human life has imprinted on his/her DNA a bias against “feminine” men, socially or sexually. Show me the child who teases a “sissy boy,” and I’ll lead you to the adult who demonstrated that that behavior is acceptable.
Josh447
Giancarlo 85
Most of your comment on here is hatefilled. We all see it. Are you that blind and dumb? Guess so. You just can’t handle the truth about just how hate filed you are, so you got too spew out, like vomit. Most every comment is mixed with a dig. So you aren’t the most liked fem on the block. Get over it. You’re bitter. You’re going to be hated, get used to it. Man up. The best you’ve got in your purse is to queen out and crash. Now, Que it up; go beserk and attack, it’s what you do best …. “grlfren”.
Masc Pride
@tdh1980: In that case, maybe there’s a Nobel Prize in your future too! Did you do a study of every gay man that proves all of us were taught what to desire?
We’re just having a conversation. Relax. There are no need for studies. I also specifically said I’VE yet to hear anyone mention effeminate guys as celebrity crushes, which clearly denotes a personal experience.
Much like sexuality, it shouldn’t matter whether our preferences are in our DNA or whether they’re the result of our individual experiences. Each preference IS natural to the individual.
JAW
@Rocky Calhoun:
What the heck are you talking about…
There are plenty of masculine trans men and the rest of us love them… just because someone is trans does not make them masculine
There are plenty of fem men out there that shout “HEY GUIRL” and have a limp wrist that others love… that does not make them trans… just a man that love to have their fem side come out
I am a masculine man that loves being with other masculine men… including trans men.
Giancarlo85
@Josh447: Your posts are seething with anger, condemnation and hatred. You hate fem gay guys as much as the religious hatred. You are a fraud. You do a lot of hating of us because we are more brave than you ever will be. And then you use that stupid term “man up”. Why don’t you for a change? You have to justify your own fake existence by attacking me. Awesome. And trust me I am a lot more liked than some masc4masc homophobic hypocrite.
dickrichard
Gay men using the term “Masc4Masc” is the equivalent to how some straight guys refer to themselves as “bro” or “dude”. You might as well run around shouting the phrase “I AM A MAN” over and over again. It goes without saying that it does not make you more of a man, that it really only underlines how insecure you are about who you actually are. I “swipe left” whenever I see someone using that term.
When that is said, I also think we should drop the whole politically correct b.s. about how a gay man is automatically self loathing and “doesn’t want to associate with the LGBT community” if he has no interest in dating men who look or act overtly effeminate: You came out as gay because you are biologically hardwired to be attracted to the male physique and because you prefer men over women.
I want to have a threesome with Carson Kressly and Chris Crocker as much as my straight friend wants to get in with k. d. land and Rosie O’Donnell, aka not over my dead body.
The truth is that vast majority of gay men are as much turned on by masculinity as straight men are turned on by femininity, and subsequently both hetero and homo men objectify the male and female physique in the same, often very extreme way.
Another example of this: look up any gay dating site or app: how do the guys label themselves and what they seek, even if there are no pre-written check boxes? They label themselves by how they fit into a certain categories of masculine stereotype(that gay men have made up all by themselves): jocks, bodybuilders, bears, hunks, daddies, rugged, leather, twink, nerd and so on(aka their level and brand of masculinity).
I am by no means advocating this masculinity obsessed culture, as a lot of it is enforced by gay and straight media, especially porn and Hollywood movies. But a large part of the preference to and obsession with masculinity is biological and not something we can change, should excuse, or try to hide.
It’s truly a meat market out there for all genders and sexual preferences, but that’s just the way it is. However, we are all free to “get off the train” and not play the game, for better or worse.
Giancarlo85
@dickrichard: Again another reading comprehension fail. Feminine gay men are not trying to be women. They are males. The problem with the mask4mask types is they attack and criticize fem gay guys for misrepresenting them. You post a lot of unsupported generalizations.
Cam
I think you miss out when you limit yourself. You may have dated a string of butch redheads, you may think you only like butch readheads, and you then might meet a femmy blonde that rocks your world and you end up together, or vice versa.
You never know, take the chance, the worst that can happen if you don’t like him is you waste a 15 minute coffee date.
MinnesotaNotNice
I see absolutely no problem with using that term. As another commenter posted, we are attracted to what we like and want to be surrounded by. What’s the harm?
Alexis Barros
No. It’s a preference. Annoying to read it all the time but definitely not homophobic. Whoever says it is, doesn’t know what homophobia is.
Arcamenel
@BJ McFrisky: Nobody said anything about twinks unless you think all twinks are feminine.
Josh447
Giancarlo 85
Really. Is that all you’ve got? What a wimp. My little sister makes you look like Mother Teresa. Now come on. Get the lead out. We all want to see you grab that toilet bowl and hurl. What’s wrong? Panties to tight? No excuse soldier girl. Now get to work.
Giancarlo85
@MinnesotaNotNice: You are absolutely free to date who you want.
But you should understand many masc4masc men viciously attack and try to isolate feminine gay men. And we wonder why our community has such high rates of suicide. Maybe masc4masc men should stop attacking those who led this community to greater acceptance.
AtticusBennett
“masc” doesn’t mean anything. it’s an amorphous concept that means something different to everyone.
wanna see what a great many men who says “masc 4 masc” are actually like?
here, i’ve provided NUMEROUS examples.
for many gay men, “masc” means “not gay”. they aspire to be like the (homophobic) straight people they’ve been surrounded by for too long.
whenever i see a profile that says “masc 4 masc” what it’s really saying to me is “i’m still really insecure about being a gay man”. and i don’t think insecurity is terribly masculine….
but hey, enjoy these examples i’ve provided.
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2013/09/mask-for-masc.html
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2011/09/carrying-self-hatred-into-adulthood.html
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2014/03/homophobic-gay-men-of-grindr.html
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2014/03/and-how-is-that-working-for-you-or.html
have fun failing to explain how there’s no internalized homophobia in these….
Giancarlo85
@Josh447: Are you done beating your chest? For someone who uses such big words, you have very little to show for. What a little coward. Wearing eyeliner is more brave than being a self loathing closet case like you.
dickrichard
@Giancarlo85: I do make a lot of generalizations, but they are based on my own life experiences. I don’t care to be politically correct and account for everyones opinion and feelings, or for scientific studies done on the subject. I am just making a statement and voicing my opinion.
Furthermore, I’m not attacking effeminate gay men, saying that they are trying to be women or misrepresenting the community, or that anyone can ever be anything other than a mix of feminine and masculine.
If I have to censor my preferences in men, just so that I don’t offend any effeminate gay men out there, then I might as well go back in the closet again.
I’m just being honest about my own preferences, and stating what I think is pretty much obvious, that’s not a crime.
Arcamenel
It’s definitely homophobic and self-loathing. It’s the product of living in a society where we’re heavily conditioned to find “masculinity”, which in itself is hard to define, attractive and denounce femininity. Just like having racial prejudices are born from the same cultural conditioning.http://www.queerty.com/queertys-comment-policy/
Arcamenel
@Arcamenel: I have no idea why the comment policy got added to that comment o.o
alphacentauri
Sometimes yes it is, and sometimes it’s not.
Charles Sherwood Morrill
It’s not loathing or narrow minded. It’s just a preference. I’m tired of being told who I should be interested in, I know what I like. You wouldn’t want people telling you to date someone you were never interested in.
Giancarlo85
@dickrichard: Again you are free to like who you want. That is your own personal dating life. But please don’t come here and dictate what gay men should or shouldn’t like.
Tobi
I have to laugh, most of the truly butch gay or bi men I’ve come across in my life, including army boys, cops and even a Canadian lumberjack have had a thing for feminine guys up to and including ladyboys. I see Masc4Masc and think, you haven’t got a chance.
SonOfKings
This masc4masc delusion is an age-related illness. Middle-aged and older men are still stuck on the cult of masculinity. Younger men are less bound to that dusty old armor. It’s not homophobic to holler masc4masc, but it is irritating and tired.
Josh447
You actually think you’re little girl antics are having effect? I thought at least you’d enter the ring. Ok so you’re a pansy. You’re a cry baby. Just can’t stand the way the world works. Good for you. Every neighborhood needs it’s one pansy to fill in the garden scape.
dickrichard
@Giancarlo85: I really didn’t do anything other than that, state my own preference.
What I said that might offend, was that I think you’re in denial if you say you don’t care how masculine or feminine your potential partner comes off.
The whole “Masc4Masc”-thing is undoubtedly stupid, but you self-proclaimed liberated or fem guys who attack them aren’t too bright either: Sexual attraction is not something that should be appropriated or censored to fit the opinions of others. You trying to “expose” their self-loathing behavior online and belittling them is just another form of bullying and trying to force them to be “gold star gays”.
If you can get down with the fishiest, prettiest dragqueen, and the most “masc4masc” daddy in town and everything in-between, then good for you! But not all guys are wired that way, and that’s okay.
Blackceo
No I don’t think it is homophobic but I do recognize how others may see it as offensive. I have only ever been physically attracted to masculine men so what term or phrase should be used if masc4masc is offensive?
lather
@Luis Collazo: Yep. Don’t that take the cake.
AtticusBennett
@Josh447: you just proved yourself wrong, and everyone else right. you’re one of those boys still desperate for his daddy to think you’re a real man.
Glücklich
I’ve commented previously I don’t do the on-line thing so I’m conflicted on this issue of “casting” for a partner or hook-up. I can understand stating one’s preferences but in the larger scheme, what’s the fun in custom-ordering a person? Masc4Masc, must be x height and x weight, no more than x years of age, have xyz other attributes…boring. If I want to customize something, Potty Barn’ll monogram my towels.
Jboo
@DarkZephyr: Sexually prejudiced? Okay, now I’ve heard it all. This might come as a shock to you, but you are not required to view every other human in the world as a viable sexual partner. As wordly and pious as you are trying to sound, you are being incredibly intolerant and ignorant of others beliefs and preferences. I don’t find “fem” guys sexually attractive. I also don’t like raisins. I haven’t been socially conditioned to hate raisins. I just don’t want them. If YOU want raisins, by all means have some.
I’ve also got mad respect for some of those ‘fem’ (I’m using the quotations because I think everyone tends to define fem in their own way) guys, because they’re out there, doing their thing and they don’t really care to justify who they are. They know who they are, and a lot of them have great self-confidence (in my experience at least).
It’s not about casting aspersions on feminine or masculine men as human beings. It’s about acknowledging that there are certain mannerisms and behavioral traits that men do and do not find attractive. We each have our own unique preferences, and that’s a good thing. What attracts you, and what you do behind your bedroom doors is nobody else’s business
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar my friend.
Giancarlo85
@dickrichard: You are full of yourself. Stop making up accusations. Feminine gay men are merely defending themselves against the bigotry of a few self loathing men who cannot accept any different.
You also have no right to talk for me. I know how I feel and I don’t need someone as judgmental as you telling me otherwise. I am not bullying anyone, but I am exposing serioys hypocrisy. As I said, you are free to date who you want. But please do not insult feminine gay men as you have done once again.
Glücklich
@Blackceo:
I’ve wondered the same thing. How else would one convey that preference? Low-key?
Or “I enjoy [state masculine activities]”
When I’ve vetted potential partners it’s always been through *GASP* a face-to-face conversation during which I can determine whether or not there’s something beneath the surface worth investigating.
dickrichard
@Jboo: You just hurt all the “Sun-Maid4Sun-Maid” guys out there; shame on you for not liking everything and everyone out there!
SeeingAll
Only partly related, but does anyone else note that there’s a definite anti-masculine streak running through quite a bit of the academic (and academically-influenced) school of thought ? (Both gay and straight men are criticized for it). A female can be as hyper-feminine as possible, and it’s not considred a sign that something is wrong in her psyche, but if a male is a living G.I.Joe it’s considred something that needs fixing. It’s kind of curious.
SeeingAll
@BJ McFrisky: Some twinks are as butch and tough as anything, though, whereas “bear” types can be about as masculine as Dom DeLuise fussing about the stove.
AtticusBennett
@SeeingAll: not at all. there has been a lot of intelligent academic discussion about the rethinking of masculinity and redefining it, which i’m sure is a real hard concept for insecure closet cases like you.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: Any discussion in academic circles about men your age still seeking their parents’ approval ?
AtticusBennett
@SeeingAll: you mean closeted guys who spew nonsense online, anonymously, because they’re still living in fear of their parents/ yeah dude – it’s Internet Trolls 101, you’re a textbook example.
i’ve been Out since i was a high school teen. You’ve been a closeted anonymous troll for far too long. It just proves what a wimp you are.
what’s your instagram handle, btw? 😀
i’ve been called a “fem” by many anonymous internet cowards. oh well, it’s working great for me! look what this fem has managed to snag! https://instagram.com/p/7kzmyrh0gw/?taken-by=atticusbennett
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: Any talk in academic circles about nonachieving failed actors now trying to become stars by posting a zillion stupid home videos ?
AtticusBennett
@SeeingAll: we get it. you’re closeted for life, and nobody loves you.
you’re a perfect example of a broken boy who will never be a real man. have fun, “MJ” – another day trolling, because you never got over being unable to stand up to your homophobic dad. “masc” indeed, LOL!
Giancarlo85
@AtticusBennett:Ignore him. He has delusions of grandeur. He is a mental basketcase who gives out fake phone numbers.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: Any talk in academic circles about guys who can’t travel without his parents for security? Seriously…you’ve been nutty in the past, but now Bellevue (or the Canadian equivalent) is truly calling.
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: And you mind your business, Colombian serial killer.
DarkZephyr
@Masc Pride: “I’m bisexual, so I could use your logic to say you’re “limiting” yourself to men”
With all due respect Masc, I feel that my logic is perfectly sound and *I* believe perfectly accurate. Its how *I* feel and its been *my* experience. I don’t once recall insulting you when giving my opinion as MY answer to the above question that Queerty posed, so I’ll thank you to extend me the same courtesy (I definitely consider being called “arrogant” an insult). Please don’t act like I started giving my opinions about this subject out of the blue.
And its not accurate to say that you would be using MY logic if you said as a bisexual that I am “limiting myself to men”, because MY logic included this question and statement:
“Can you choose your sexual orientation? Absolutely not, but you CAN be conditioned or condition yourself to have biases and prejudices related to what turns you on, I definitely and most firmly believe that.”
So your comment would be an example of your own logic. not my own. I assume that you and I both reject the notion that sexual orientation itself can be changed (though I could be wrong in that assumption). However, if you really think that I am limiting myself by only being with men, then that’s your business and as long as you aren’t trying to legislate your beliefs on me, I don’t give a crap. I mean obviously I literally AM limiting myself to men because, hey, I’m a gay man and that’s what we do (that came off sounding like a recent insurance commercial lol).
Ultimately, I don’t care if a same sex attracted guy is “masc4masc”, Masc. Its incredibly and extremely unsexy to me, but its his choice. I stand by my belief that this is self imposed, but its his right to make that decision. I *do* kind of care when a Masc4Masc feels the need to insult “feminine” gay men WHILE stating his preference, sometimes I will speak up when I see that in a public forum. But I guess if he wants to come across as a jerk, that’s his choice too. For ME its a HUGE turn off. But I’m not trying to fight with you, Masc, so again, please don’t be insulting me. You and I did the fighting thing a year or two ago over this very subject among a few others and I happen to think its played out. Neither of us is going to change the others’ views and I am not even trying to. Just participating in the discussion. Nothing more. There’s no arrogance in that.
AtticusBennett
@Giancarlo85: ignore him…what? and be anything like his father!? LOL!
i know. the dude is certifiably insane, and a textbook example of a broken boy who “grew up” to be a wimpy Anonymous Internet Coward.
Giancarlo85
@AtticusBennett: he is also a domestic terrorist.
AtticusBennett
@DarkZephyr: “masc pride” isn’t a bisexual. he’s a closeted coward that has never had sex with anyone; male or female. i mean DUH. LOL
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: Hey…you’re the two who just started in on me, for no good reason. I brought up a perfectly good academic question. So….. don’t get annoyed if I sweep up the floor with the two of you. And I can do that even at my most feminine….Werk!!!
AtticusBennett
@Giancarlo85: he’s stalked me across different sites, under different names, for many years. he’s gone by “MJ” on Disqus. i show what i show about my life, because i have the privilege to be able to do so. he can’t do anything similar so instead he lies about things that i have legit proof are false. thats’ why he’s never been accepted in life – picks all the wrong battles for all the wrong reasons. you and i have literally communicated more with him than his own family has in the last decade. sad, eh? oh well.
Masc Pride
@SeeingAll: Totally noticed that too. Whatever you do, don’t be a gay or bisexual guy that simply enjoys lifting weights or watching football or–dare I say–enjoys an occasional beer. Automatic self-loathing accusations. But for guys that love Madonna, occasional drag, Project Runway and Sex in the City marathons, they’re just courageously being their authentic selves. Gold star!
DarkZephyr
@SeeingAll: Dude, I wouldn’t be butting in but why did you repeat yourself so many times? That’s rather annoying. I don’t think Atticus has ever claimed that he takes his parents with him everywhere he goes, but if he did, I guess we know that his parents love him and that’s not a bad thing.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: And then my high-kicking high-heeled glitter boot knocks your father out too. Werk !!
Giancarlo85
@AtticusBennett: You are dealing with an anti intellectual who subscribes to big words. In real life he is a scrawny little stalker with no life. I repeatedly destroyed him on this site. You think he would take a hint and go away. He is into sadomasochism and self depreciation. He thinks he swept the floor with us… Again delusions of grandeur.
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: No, he’s mentally-ill and can’t travel on his own. That’s why he lives online calling others a wimp. Believe me on that one.
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: But…you’re from Colombia !! The top three serial killers in the world !
AtticusBennett
@DarkZephyr: my family and i don’t even live in the same country! LOL
i moved out on my own when i was still in high school. i document a lot of stuff when i visit my parents because i’m one of the few gay men whose parents care enough about LGBT people to be visible advocates and allies for us; that’s why i include them in so many of my posts and videos. SeeingNothing thus gets angry about that.
he can’t show the truth about himself, so he tries to lie about people that CAN.
i mean, look at this site’s most fem-hating “i’m so masc!” commenters; can they show themselves? no. and there’s a reason why: they’re not secure confident “masculine” men. they’re wimpy, insecure, broken cowards.
understand that obsessing over me is what SeeingALl has to do to distract himself from a life of amounting to less than nothing.
calpoidog
Speaking for myself, it’s what (of many things) gets me hard. More feminine guys just don’t do it for me. It’s not homophobic, not self hatred– it’s just a preference. I stopped using it in online profiles because I think a lot of the posters are correct….what I perceive to be “masculine” is fluid and changes from person to person. Plus I found that 99% of the time someone who self-describes as masculine just wasn’t…at least to me.
Let’s face it, there are a million reasons we are all rejected from online suitors and this is just one of the many….
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: I AM scrawny ! So I can’t think why you and Atticus are too terrified to meet me after I gave out my number. Atticus at least has the excuse (he can’t travel to NYC on his own) but I’m assuming you actually CAN travel…right..?
Giancarlo85
SeeingNothing is a terrorist. He is from Iraq. I think he is part of ISIL.
AtticusBennett
@tdh1980:i adore your concise and spot-on brilliance 😀
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: All lies. You’re parents still have to watch over you like mother hens and have your siblings do it too. While you stay in their house. But…you said you’ll be in NYC in a few weeks, so…maybe you’ll call and prove me wrong.
AtticusBennett
SeeingALl – show yourself. i gave my instagram handle. give yours. but you won’t. because you’re a wimp. and you’ll die one, too.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: I’ll see you when you come to NYC like you said. I’m not trying to be a “star” like you are. What good do you think you’re doing by being “out” anyway? Jack Andraka ? Excellent that he’s out. Michael Sam…very good example for the public to see. But you..?
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: And when did I ever say I’m “masculine” ? I’m not especially. (Loon).
DarkZephyr
@AtticusBennett: “my family and i don’t even live in the same country! LOL” lol I know.
DarkZephyr
@calpoidog: “Plus I found that 99% of the time someone who self-describes as masculine just wasn’t…at least to me.”
Ha, one of my points exactly. lol
AtticusBennett
@SeeingAll: then let’s see you: so i know what you look like when we meet. HA, as if you’d actually show up. so, come on kiddo – show yourself.
i have no intention about being a youtube star. in any way. it’s simply about the right person getting the right message. that’s all that matters. i know firsthand whom i’ve helped.
now, stop being a wimpy little coward and show yourself. 😀
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: Think he’ll show up in NYC without his parents like he said he would ?
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: I’m a small non-descript guy. But I’m neither closeted, nor in hiding, and WILL meet to hear your vicious viper talk to my face. You have my number. We’ll see.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: Right message ? From who ? You ?
DarkZephyr
@SeeingAll: I think he puts his money where his mouth is.
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: We’ll see, right ?
AtticusBennett
@SeeingAll: i don’t have your number. what’s your number? better – show yourself so i can confirm whom i’ll be talking to.
i’m pretty sure my parents aren’t going to by flying to NYC. they don’t even live in north america LOL. i’ve not traveled with my family since i was 16 years old. one of the perks of being a self-sufficient homo 😉
if you’re not in hiding, stop hiding and show yourself.
SeeingAll
It is 646 and 250 and 5932, again
AtticusBennett
“masc is like cool; to be it, one must first stop hoping people think that you are it”
AtticusBennett
@SeeingAll: and your instagram/facebook? 😀
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: You go nowhere without your parents. THIS queen travels anywhere without my dopey parents along. Werk !! And if you don’t come to NYC, I’m going to be hitting Canada…..
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: Don’t have an instagram nor a Facebook. You have to wait til you’re here. I’ll look for the guy who looks like a concentration camp victim..
tdh1980
Conversations with “Masc 4 Masc”
M4M: I prefer masculine men.
Me: What’s a “masculine” man?
M4M: You know, a guy who looks and acts like a guy.
Me: And how is that?
M4M: [nonsense rambling about sports, cars, beer, outdoor activies, not wearing makeup or carrying purses]
Me: I know plenty of women who love sports, cars, beer, and outdoor activities and hate wearing makeup and very “feminine” clothing yet still very much identify as women.
[BEAT]
M4M: Yeah, but…[more nonsense rambling]
Masc Pride
@DarkZephyr: With all due respect, Zephyr, I never insulted you. I used the word arrogant to describe anyone who feels entitled to critique another man’s preference(s), and that still stands. You could’ve only been insulted by that if you were doing what I was referring to as arrogant.
You did rather sanctimoniously state that people who aren’t doing what you’ve forced yourself to do are somehow limiting themselves. However, pursuing what you find yourself naturally attracted to can never be a limit because that’s what you want. A limit denotes something that’s keeping you from what you want. If a person was intentionally restricting his or herself from another person they actually liked, then I’d agree that they’re limiting themselves, but that obviously doesn’t apply to the masc4masc crowd.
Just because you stated you believe there is a difference between sexual orientation and other preferences doesn’t mean that logic is now infallible. You said people that weren’t attracted to certain types of other people were limiting themselves, so that logic would definitely include gay men who aren’t open to dating women as well. Your “decondition yourself” statement also sounded a lot like the same logic people use to tell gay men they just haven’t tried hard enough to like women. Just sayin’.
Please notice how you repeatedly say you don’t care if someone has a masc4masc preference…but then you go on to state why it kinda bothers you. lol
AtticusBennett
that number has been registered online as an unsafe number from someone who has uttered death threats.
care to block this criminal, Queerty?
http://okcaller.com/6462505932
AtticusBennett
@tdh1980: PREACH!
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: I gave no one a death threat. Tht’s an overdramatic lying wuss who said that about me. Now…you have the number. I expect to see you in NYC without your parents soon. But I won’t hold my breath. You want to give me YOUR number (here or on my cell) so I can get you when I come up there ?
onthemark
What’s Instagram? Seriously, what the fuck is Instagram? 🙂
AtticusBennett
@SeeingAll: show yourself. you won’t because you know you’re just a trolling coward who won’t even show up. you’re all talk, no action. which is exactly why your father was always so ashamed that you were his son.
you can find me on instagram. alas, but instagram means you’re shown. and you can’t, and won’t, ever show yourself. and you won’t show up to meet me. i’ll have a camera with me. your entire existence hinges on being anonymous. you are indeed the wimp your dad always told you you were.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: Whatever. so I’ll see you here in NY, unless I’m the only homo, uncloseted enough, on here with the gumption to actually show up and meet someone to defend what I say. Which is sort of sad if I’m the only one. (But I’d like to think that says more about the cyber addicts, in general, than gay cyber addicts specifically).
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: My dad was mad I was a more beautiful quen than he. YOUR dad is mad about that too.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: When will you be here ? November……what ?
DarkZephyr
@Masc Pride: No, I stated that when a Masc4Masc insults “feminine” gay men it bothers me. Unless you are declaring that insulting “fems” is standard fare for all Masc4Masc types. That was never anything that *I* stated.
As for the “arrogant” comment, you were talking directly to me, Masc. I took it exactly as you intended it, period.
“You did rather sanctimoniously state that people who aren’t doing what you’ve forced yourself to do are somehow limiting themselves.”
And you did rather b*tchily state that “Some guys also prefer to avoid effeminate men because fems can frequently be extremely dramatic, super combative (only verbally, of course) and a lot of them like to make scenes for attention. Most people prefer to avoid people with Histrionic Personality Disorder as well, and people with HPD tend to exhibit a lot of those same behaviors.”
Anyway, go play with somebody else as I am simply not interested in rehashing the same tired crap with you. I will continue to state my opinions under articles that ask specific questions. If that bothers you, tough sh**.
AtticusBennett
you’re ok with me taking your pic and showing everyone what you actually look like, finally putting a face to all your comments? HAHAH!
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: Yes. I can’t be bothered to put a pic on, but if someone else wants to photograph me, that’s cool.
AtticusBennett
@DarkZephyr: you and i are literally doing the same thing – arguing with mouth-breathing morons for whom Internet Anonymity is the very thing needed to maintaing their lie about who they are. we’re using logic with closeted trolls whose very pathetic existences hinge on avoiding logic, reason, facts and reality.
these guys are broken, and doomed to a life without love or actual joy.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: Aaarggh….I’m broken. So you will be in NYC and calling, correct ? I assure you there’s nothing dangerous about me.
DarkZephyr
@Jboo: I stand by my comments, quite firmly as I believe every single word that I typed. Sorry if that bothers you.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: (like that’s DarkZephyr’s real photo)
GTT
Masc4Masc is not necessarily homophobic – it depends on the user.
Some gay guys are sexually and romantically attracted to masculine characteristics in a potential partner. I doubt some or even most of the users of that site even fit that profile though.
It becomes homophobic if people are motivated by homophobia, right?
That question is not answered.
Of course real masculinity – being a man, and an adult – by my definition, courage, maturity strength is not about a deep voice and a way of talking.
DarkZephyr
@AtticusBennett: You’re right. And its tired and old. Its like a broken record with these guys.
DarkZephyr
@GTT: Amen
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: @AtticusBennett: (like that’s DarkZephyr’s real photo)
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: Kiwi is the broken record. “Your daddy hates you!” “You’re a broken wimp!” “My parents love me!’
heath0043
Everybody is taking this so serious. Cute joke. Mask not masc.
GTT
AtticusBennett,
Alot of gay people were abused by their parents when they were young. Does that make it ok for us to rub it in each other’s faces?
If you think you have insight into other people’s inner lives why do you think its ok to hurl insults at them about it?
SeeingAll
@GTT: I never even thought of that, but ….yeah, if he was ever guessing right about other guys’ childhoods, that makes him even more vicious.
Masc Pride
@DarkZephyr: No. It was way more than that, but nice selective excerpting. You’ve left a few comments to make it known that you definitely disapprove.
I described the action of criticizing other people’s preferences as arrogant. If someone other than you did it, I’d still say it’s an arrogant thing to do. You’re trying to make it seem super personal, but I haven’t personally attacked you or called you any names. Not at all. If you don’t like the word arrogant, maybe you should refrain from criticizing other people’s preferences. Putting “period” at the end of a statement doesn’t make your perception right.
Now, “rather bitchly” is quite interesting coming from the same person that previously tried to describe the word “arrogant” as some type of hate speech LOL. Furthermore, I’d like to point out that there are fems in here showing and proving exactly what I said (as I knew there would be).
How about next time, you just refrain from addressing me at all? Please scroll up and see that YOU started this conversation with me, so there’s no need for catty dismissals. I stand by my comments quite firmly as I believe every single word that I’ve typed. Sorry if that bothers you! 😉
DarkZephyr
@Masc Pride: Please quite posting to me.
DarkZephyr
@DarkZephyr: quit*
DarkZephyr
@SeeingAll: WTF does my photo have to do with your conversation with Atticus?
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: He says if you don’t have a photo you’re a closeted wimp.
lauraspencer
@SonOfKings:
That hasn’t been my experience. I live in NYC and see the cult of masculinity worship in the 20 something and 30 something crowd as well.
Where do you live and what age range are you suggesting?
DarkZephyr
@SeeingAll: And by the way, its not actually a photo, its from the cover of a gay vampire novel. So? I never tried to say it was me and I am pretty sure nobody thinks my eyes glow anyway.
http://www.amazon.com/Bound-In-Blood-Journey-Vampire/dp/1575667649
Masc Pride
@DarkZephyr: I will when you do, deal?
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: I know. But he says if you don’t have a photo of yourself you’re a closeted wimp. And, as you say about your cyberchum, he “puts his money where his mouth is”, right ?
DarkZephyr
@SeeingAll: I don’t think he was accusing *everybody* who doesn’t have a photo of being a closeted wimp. If a guy wants a photo of me he can contact me one on one, and as long as he isn’t a douche bag, I’ll probably share one with him.
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: Oh…..I think he was. And if he doesn’t show up in NYC like he promised, I’m not letting YOU forget it either.
DarkZephyr
@SeeingAll: So it seems to me that its YOU who are accusing me of being a closeted wimp. Having fun with that, are you?
Josh447
Giancarlo 85
You actually think your little girl antics are having effect? I thought at least you’d enter the ring. Ok so you’re a pansy. You’re a cry baby. Just can’t stand the way the world works. Good for you. Every neighborhood needs it’s one pansy to fill in the garden scape.
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: No. He is. You chose your side now we’ll see where it goes.
CINTI_JACK
Masc4Masc is not necessarily homophobic. But it is self describing.
This self description of masculine is not unlike describing yourself as powerful. And should be treated in the same way.
Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren’t.
– Margaret Thatcher.
DarkZephyr
@SeeingAll: “Oh…..I think he was. And if he doesn’t show up in NYC like he promised, I’m not letting YOU forget it either.”
If that happens and you want to randomly post to me under some unrelated article “Kiwi never showed up!” be my guest. That isn’t exactly the scariest thing anyone has ever threatened me with. I have had my ass handed to me and almost killed more than once by gangs of homophobes, I think I can handle a weird cyber stalker on Queerty.
“No. He is. You chose your side now we’ll see where it goes.”
Because I agree with his position about guys who insult “fems” and you kept annoyingly repeating yourself word for word over and over. I doubt I was the only one who found that annoying.
SeeingAll
@CINTI_JACK: That’s a pretty good Thatcher quote, because it could pertain to so many other characteristics too.
AtticusBennett
@GTT: many of my gay friends, i dare say most, came from appallingly anti-gay families. none of them, however, have gone on in life to be pathetic Anonymous Internet Trolls, using their anonymity to lash out at everyone from a place of cowardice.
your comments about masculinity are pretty darn accurate; i dare say no man can call himself “masculine” if he’s Closeted.
masculinity for many is an affectation – an aesthetic, a look. for me? it’s been about standing up to meet challenges in life from a place of honesty. masculinity is being a man, the opposite is not being a woman, but being a BOY; boys hide. boys lie. boys evade. boys blame. i remember in a meeting years ago a father was saying that he wouldn’t mind if his son was gay if only his son was more “macho” – i pointed out that his son was 15 and the only openly-gay kid in his school’s history, and maybe the problem is that the father has a narrow and warped idea of what “macho” means…. i mean, 15, and the only openly gay kid in the school’s HISTORY? that 15 year old boy was more MAN than any other male in that building.
the troll i’ve been conversing with has stalked me across various sites for years. i’m calling out that i know exactly why he does what he does, from a place of internet anonymity – it’s the last refuge of cowards.
having a bigoted family doesn’t mean you’ll go on to be a self-hating bigot with internalized homophobia. but those anti-“effeminacy” masc4masc straight-acting-wannabe trolls? every single one came from a family like that. and it shows in their comments.
he’s provided a cell phone number, of all things. google it and you’ll see it’s a number that’s been reported as the user was threatening gay people with death.
ANONYMOUS, the hacker group, is apparently going to be “unhooding” more than 1000 members of the KKK. the Klan are similar to many Anonymous Internet Commenters – they say things under a “hood”, because they’re not actually confident enough to say them with their face showing.
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: I never repeated a thing. He’s the one that repeats. And, you SHOULD be more scared of me than a gang of gaybashers. When I attack you know it’s just desserts for your own mean stupidity. The gang of gaybashers were just choosing an innocent victim.
AtticusBennett
@DarkZephyr: we know he won’t show up. guys like him depend on invisibility and anonymity. a troll like him who’d actually agree to meet an OUT and visible and documenting-everything type like me? he won’t show.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: Don’t lie. I never threatened gay people with death. That was reported by another liar, but it’s b.s. And even if I’d ever done such a thing, I think you’re brave enough and out-of-the-closet enough that you’ll come meet me in NYC like you promised, right ? And if you don’t I WILL come to Toronto…..especially, like I said, to meet all your homo-friendly Muslim friends.
DarkZephyr
@SeeingAll Are you threatening me with physical violence?
DarkZephyr
@AtticusBennett, I don’t know…he’s starting to sound like a disturbed freak. He is telling me that I should rear him more than a gang of gay bashers that almost took my life. If you meet him, make sure you have protection AND that there are others with you and around you. He sounds like a goddamned psychopath.
DarkZephyr
Fear*
Kevin Wotipka
Depends—are we conflating homosexuality with effeminacy?
youarekiddingme
@AtticusBennett: @DarkZephyr: Guys, you need to take a copy of the chat log to local law enforcement. They can prosecute for threats over the internet (in writing). They will be able to subpoena Queery to get all of the contact information on the person who made the threats to you for prosecution. Good Luck.
onthemark
Kudos if Queerty is at last paying attention to its own Comment Policy! SeeingEyeDog’s “threats” seemed metaphorical to me, but he obviously crossed the line.
Atticus once told me to commit suicide. He’s a nasty, hypocritical bully and Queerty never does anything about him.
@AtticusBennett: “many of my gay friends, i dare say most, came from appallingly anti-gay families. none of them, however, have gone on in life to be pathetic Anonymous Internet Trolls, using their anonymity to lash out at everyone from a place of cowardice.”
Really? Atticus knows the internet activity of all of his friends, and thereby knows for for a FACT that none of them do that?
At first I thought, well this is some modern bullsh*t where he’s counting Facebook “friends.” But actually that makes his statement way, way more ridiculous. Let’s be generous and say that “Atticus,” an outgoing guy, in real life has 100 friends (most of which are really acquaintances) and let’s say 100,000 friends on Facebook, and on Instagram (again whatever the fuck that is). Atticus might bitch and say it’s much more than that, “i have a million friends” or whatever, but that would actually make the math even worse.
Really? Atticus knows the internet activity of all of his friends, and thereby knows for for a FACT that none of them ever posts on the internet under a pseudonym without a photo? (Like that’s such a horrible thing.) Really?
(Because posting on the internet under a pseudonym WITH a photo is, of course, perfectly okay! – according to “Atticus.”)
The Amazing “Atticus” reads the minds and monitors the activities of at least one hundred thousand people. That’s truly amazing.
Giancarlo85
@Josh447: Your insults are meaningless and just exposes you as a coward. You’re nothing more than a coward who can’t help but try to justify your fake masculinity to everyone.
I don’t get what was going on with this site today and yesterday. Seems like a software problem.
Giancarlo85
@youarekiddingme: Absolutely. SeeingNothing could be facing serious prosecution right now and has tossed out enough threats. He has threatened me too, but I now am not responding to any of his nonsense.
And Offthemark is one of the biggest bullies on this site. So it’s ironic he’s goiing after Atticus.
Giancarlo85
@CINTI_JACK: Citing an anti-gay bigot to prove your non-existent point won’t help you. Not on here.
onthemark
@Giancarlo85: And we were doing so-o-o well yesterday!
HOW am I a bully? You’re probably just mixing me up with someone else again. It took me awhile to realize you’re just too lazy to keep track of who is who here, and who is saying what. (A few weeks ago you got me mixed up with ‘lauraspencer,” of all people.) For all the time you spend here you could at least pay attention! 🙂
onthemark
@Giancarlo85: Anyway you’ve declared TWICE that you were going to “ignore” me! So… ignore me.
DarkZephyr
@youarekiddingme: I appreciate the advice, thank you very much.
@onthemark: “Kudos if Queerty is at last paying attention to its own Comment Policy! SeeingEyeDog’s “threats” seemed metaphorical to me, but he obviously crossed the line.”
I hope they are metaphorical, but based on what that phone number lookup site says, it seems as though he is prone to this sort of thing. He just seems all around unstable to me.
Anyway, Happy Halloween, everyone!
Bauhaus
“I only like two kinds of men – domestic and imported.”
– Mae West
onthemark
@DarkZephyr: I didn’t understand why he suddenly turned on you and kept dragging you into that dispute. However, as long as you have no intention of calling him up for a date in New York, moot point? Like you, I’ve been badly f@g-bashed. Perspective.
Btw – you think sparks will fly when SeeingAll and Atticus hook up? Oh the passion.
onthemark
@DarkZephyr: Sorry if I’m “beating the dead horse” here – or at least I HOPE I am, I hope they’re both banned! I agree with you, SeeingAll was way out of line. But I hope Atticus was banned (again) too.
The whole dispute between SeeingAll and Atticus is a great example of why Atticus’s pet project is such a BAD idea. If Atticus had his way, everyone here would post with their real photo and be traceable to their real name. (Leave aside that Atticus uses a fake name here, but I guess we can’t expect hypocrites to be consistent.)
Maybe it’s different for a rich kid like him, with a pit bull, living in a gay ghetto in a country with gun control. But for most of us it’s physically dangerous to reveal too much about yourself on a gay site, or on any site. There are plenty of homophobic f@g-bashers out there. But as we see with SeeingAll, there are unstable gay guys out there too!
Also, the whole dispute – which if it matters was started by Atticus the monomaniac – is totally off topic from the subject of the article, which in itself is a violation of the Queerty Comment Policy.
AlexM123
If masc4masc is homophobic, then so is every “feminine” gay that hates on “masculine” gays. And don’t even try to act like it doesn’t happen. On this very site many feminine men have bashed “masc” gays and referred to them as cowards who are pretending. If they are allowed to say this without any problems, then masc4masc is in now way a problem.
Giancarlo85
@DarkZephyr: He’s an extremely unstable person.
As far as the other guy who replied to me, I am not interested in the recycled material he has. It’s boring.
@AlexM123: Really? Which feminine men have done that? Feminine men get defensive on HERE because the so called “masculine” gay men insult and attack them endlessly.
Stop throwing out fake accusations you can’t back up.
SeeingAll
@onthemark: Why should I be banned ? I was minding my own business and nutty Atticus started up with me.
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: Dumb. Stop being a drama queen. You and Atticus were way out of line.
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: LOL. Serious prosecution. You’d know about that, being from the land of serial killers.
SeeingAll
@youarekiddingme: LOL. You’re another clown.
SeeingAll
@onthemark: @AlexM123: There’s definitely an anti-masculine hostility going on (and I say that as a guy who’s not totally masculine). Some gay guys just won’t accept the fact that there are naturally masculine homosexuals. There’s also an anti-feminine contingent, too, though, so I guess it all evens out. And the whole thing is another reminder to MYOB and let people like what they like.
SeeingAll
@onthemark: I didn’t drag him into the dispute. DarkZephyr entered the dispute willingly, even stating that he doesn’t usally “butt in”. So why is he whining that he had to take abuse along with his cohort Atticus/Little Kiwi/Raymond Miller? And why are YOU saying I dragged him into it ?
SeeingAll
@onthemark: He won’t show. You think I’m joking when I say he can’t travel without his parents ? I wasn’t exaggerating in the slightest. It’s some type of…agoraphobia (where he can’t leave his immediate vicinity/neighborhood by himself). He was in NYC once when his father was here on business for a period. Which is the major source of his anger and his taking refuge in a fantasy world where he’s a gay hero in the midst of a bunch of cowardly closet cases.
DarkZephyr
@SeeingAll: I asked you why you kept repeating yourself, that’s all. I volunteered *no* personal position on your actual dispute with Atticus. *You* dragged me into the dispute itself when you decided to go on about my avatar photo and then when *you* decided to start asking me my opinion about whether or not Atticus would show. It was only then that I shared with you that position. *At your direct request*. You certainly did drag me into it. Then after doing that, you got on me for “choosing a side” and I explained that I did indeed agree with Atticus when it came to those who treat “fem” gay mean poorly. And then you informed me that if Kiwi didn’t show, you would not let me forget it, I said I wasn’t all that scared of you doing that, you told me that I SHOULD be scared of you and that when you attacked (“attack” was YOUR word), it would be more fearsome than what the gay bashers did to me and that I would deserve it. Maybe you didn’t mean that you would literally attack me, but you certainly DID go over the line, and because I was *honest with you* at your OWN urging. I guess you would have preferred that I lied to you. At any rate, at the very least, I feel that you owe me an apology.
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: No, you took the side of the vicious loon Atticus (who, as Little Kiwi, actually used to encourage people to commit suicide on various blogs), in more ways than one. Go back and read over the whole exchange. Then you tried to paint the situation as if I was the one at fault. I’ve fought off multiple gaybashers twice in my life, and have been asked if I’d jump in to save a gaybashing victim. My answer now is “no way”. I’m not risking my life for another gay guy who, all too ofen. would turn on me in a heartbeat. You can hope Atticus and the Muslim friends of his (lol, right) will save you. Which, again, is one of the primary idiotic traits of gay men : you aren’t smart enough to choose your real allies.
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: Check this message of yours. Then you say you didn’t choose sides ? What a liar you are.
onthemark
@DarkZephyr: Yes. “Attack” in online comments is usually metaphorical, but right in the middle of a conversation about meeting up with someone in person (!!!), it seemed sinister. And he was declaring that an “attack” by him on you, in online comments, would be more fearsome than an actual gay-bashing! That manages to be weird, grandiose and slightly deranged all the same time.
onthemark
@SeeingAll: “I was minding my own business and nutty Atticus started up with me.”
Okay. Atticus started it. As a feeble pretext for going off on his “anonymity” and daddy fetishes. And your initial responses to him were pretty funny. But I don’t get why you want to meet up with him in person. (Ugh.) What would you discuss, in the unlikely event he were to show up? Would you guys go ice skating at Chelsea Piers? Maybe bowling? What exactly is the point?
onthemark
Queerty shut down the ENTIRE site for several hours on Friday, obviously trying to decide what to do about this situation. And after all that, apparently they decided to do… nothing?
There’s nothing in the comment policy against giving out phone #’s, setting up personal meetings etc. though maybe there should be. But I guess it doesn’t matter since they never do anything anyway.
At any rate, I don’t believe either that Kiwi’s daddy lives in another country. It’s the first of the month – rent time. Kiwi needs to give his father a bl0w job. SLURP!
SeeingAll
@onthemark: Well….men have to have some integrity, don’t you think ? Even on Queerty. So meeting someone is the first step to backing up what you have to say as truth. Especially when some goofball is accusing you of being closeted.
onthemark
@SeeingAll: Oh you mean that “i have dozens of muslim friends” stuff? Or something else?
SeeingAll
@onthemark: That, but mostly his other crazed accusations about others’ fathers and family backgrounds and the like. He’s really just gotta shut up.
Glücklich
Hey, everyone—if all you’re doing is arguing amongst yourselves about who among you’s a troll, coward, crazy or whatever SHUT THE HELL UP!
Everyone had some valid points and interesting views – even if others may have disagreed – before the above shit storm blew in; it’s all looking like an AOL chat log circa 1995 and I think we’re all classier broads than that.
SeeingAll
@Glücklich: I hope you’re not including me in “everyone”. All was fine until they all started slapping at me at once.
onthemark
@Glücklich: To quote your father’s relatives: “Joo are very fonny. Why joo not have a girlfriend? When joo getting a girlfriend?” lol
DarkZephyr
@Glücklich: You make a good point, I am done with the back and forth here, its silly and got way out of hand.
@SeeingAll: You are no less guilty than any of other of us concerning the back and forth and you are among the more insulting and petty, but I’m done with this and I think you should be too.
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: I’m the least petty. I might be the most insulting, though, but that’s justified. (You and your Atticus….ugh..)
Josh447
Giancarlo85
I think you are having huge troubles accepting your pansyhood. Maybe a football jersey to bed with you? Maybe some masculinity may wear off? I here that’s what they do in ex-pansy programs. And we all know how well those programs work. I voted to at least keep that one going. For your benefit of course. Masc4masc is a great teacher, but he might see you as eye rolling hopeless. Of course, the hopelessly clueless will always hold out hope for you. You’re mother maybe?
Glad to be back on the horse here.
Giancarlo85
@DarkZephyr: Just ignore him. He’s a putz and he’s seriously unstable. I think his shrink needs to increase his meds. Seriously 9 or 10 posts in a row?
@Josh447: Wow… what a loser. Pansyhood? I assure you I’m more brave and courageous than you ever will be. You are a perpetual closet case that tries to be “one of the guys”. You’ll never be “one of the guys”. Ever. You need to be committed to the psych ward… they have some good programs for psychopaths like yourself.
It’s not my fault your mother used to try to beat the gay out of you. Now you must be so ashamed of yourself.
Avery Alvarez
@Glücklich: Oh, you poor, sweet soul. That’s a wonderful thought to have, but you know, it’s impossible to happen on here.
Especially when one particular balding, cross-eyed, ears sticking out, mother superior fàg shows up to “educate” us on the ONE opinion gay men are allowed to have on any given topic. Dissent will be silenced by her with abusive language and threats. If you disagree with her on something as simple as what your favorite gay color is, she’ll tell you you’re a disappointment to your parents and a coward, though this is projection on her part. She’s ruins every thread with her militant self-hatred projected outwards, and now she’s picked up a couple proteges. No wonder she was banned once already. I think it’s time for a second banning.
Josh447
Giancarlo85
Haha. You’re the perpetual fem Fatale that can’t seem to unbunch her bloomers when someone doesn’t like her-you and your self professed androgenous fem-flam. Can’t you just powder your nose and throw mascara on those stunted eye lashes and like it? Fabricating stories about others is so passe and childish. But then you never broke out of your seperation anxiety from your mother either which has your bra on backwards and way too tight. Someday you’ll look in the mirror and actually like your Tootsie self, and the mirror won’t actually crack anymore. But don’t count on this life time. That’s reeeally pushing it. 🙂
Josh447
PS I’ve never had a problem “being one of the guys”, comes with the territory, but god forbid, one of the girls? Like you? LOL Shirley you jest. I guess I could try a drag night and see how the likes of you lives. I’m sure it’s not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. All your anger thrills the entire story. You’re heaped with it. But then you love getting yourself and “who am I to judge?” You’re like a cute little rabid pitbull. Who wouldn’t like poking sticks at that?
Giancarlo85
@onthemark: It looked more like a software problem.
SeeingNothing must have had a huge panic attack not being able to comment. He probably had all nine posts saved it on a text document because he was desperate to reply.
SeeingNothing is still attacking my country for the actions of a few, and still rampaging like a crying kid in a candystore. A dozen posts that say absolutely nothing. Who would have figured?
SEEINGBITCH (this is for you):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwh285vNiDs
Josh447
Here Gia….
Here ya go Giapet, edited for the easily confused …
PS I’ve never had a problem “being one of the guys”, comes with the territory, but god forbid, one of the girls? Like you? LOL Shirley you jest. I guess I could try a drag night and see how the likes of you lives. I’m sure it’s not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. All your anger tells the entire story. You’re heaped with it. But then you love hating yourself and “who am I to judge?” You’re like a cute little rabid pitbull. Who wouldn’t like poking sticks at that?
Giancarlo85
@Josh447: Can you type something that is actually coherent? Perhaps you should put the thesaurus down for a second and get back to reality. Somebody really needs to report you to the authorities and have you locked up. You are a danger to yourself and others around you.
This is what I think when I see your posts:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/21/albuquerque-road-rage-shooting-four-year-old
You are seriously unhinged like this man.
@Josh447: No, you’ll never be one of the guys. So, how many times did your mom try to beat the gay out of you? I’m just wondering.
DarkZephyr
@Giancarlo85: Definitely going to be my practice from this point on!
Giancarlo85
@Josh447: So three posts of blah blah blah blah… did you actually say something of worth? OR are you just going to post more of the same nonsense? Perhaps it’s brain damage. Mothers who drink during pregnancies produce offspring like yourself.
And anger? LOL. One can see how angry you are right now. You want to hurt me don’t you? You want to beat me up because I don’t fall into gender norms like you demand?
My anger? LOL. I’ve been quite calmed. You on the other hand are a raving lunatic. Pretty much like the guy on the street screaming his lungs out at people telling them they are going to hell.
You are a little rabid chihuahua. Lots of bark, and absolutely no bite.
Giancarlo85
@DarkZephyr: I think I gotta do the same thing with Josh447… he’s a raving lunatic… sounds like that yapping chihuahua next door. 🙂 Sometimes it’s best to ignore a pest.
SeeingAll
@DarkZephyr: Because you were caught in a lie. It’s always easy to make the excuse that you just wanted to “step out” when that happens. And now you’ll bond with GianCarlo, who is almost as nutty as Atticus.
Giancarlo85
@SeeingAll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDSTMguO5A – yap yap yap yap
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: Right up above you say I’m a supporter of ISIL. Then you say the computer was not invented by a white man. Then…you lie right here about the real reason I’m bringing up Colombian serial killers, and…..your frantic phoney-baloney screeching is starting to catch up with you, because even the total dopes can see you’re just making stuff up.
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: Whenever you hear a dog yapping…yes…make sure you think of me.
Josh447
Did I say Pitbull? I meant Terrier. However, you could easily be a mix. So now mister PitTerrier, I have a football game to go play. I know how that offends you but don’t worry, none of us will pay you a speck of mind. You’re well, just not hot.
Don’t take all this too personally. Rubbing your face in your own beef stew so you can smell yourself can be quite entertaining. Now toddle along MaryAnnaBullTerrier, you’re boring. This boy’s done witya. For now. And for god’s sake, take off that zircon studded pink choker. You don’t want to get turned down for the Horror Story sideshow circus part now do you? Tah
Giancarlo85
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDSTMguO5A
Yap yap yap yap yap… three more posts that say absolutely nothing.
The Chihuahua and ISIL member have once again said absolutely nothing. They just love being shellacked and whipped on here every time they get a chance. It’s a fascination with sadomasochism.
A football game lol? The most he does is watch football players on youtube and jacks off. Sad way to live.
Giancarlo85
It’s funny the perpetual bullshit artist says I’m making stuff up. That’s like Kim Jong Un talking about the value of human rights. You can’t make this shit up, guys!
He tries so hard to not be full of shit. It’s impossible lol!
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: No, I said a lot to you, and about you. Anybody who says SeeingAll is in ISIL, that a white man didn’t invent the computer, and that Colombia doesn’t have the top three serial killers (according to the science of Criminology)can’t be taken seriously on…..anything. So stop following me around and trying to jump me like Atticus and Zephyr did.
Josh447
GiaPet
LoL Me, jack off to football players on youtube? Only in your dreams. 😉
Giancarlo85
Again, SeeingNothing has said absolutely nothing. You can see why I modified his name to “SeeingNothing”. He needs to get his contacts back in and also get back on his heavy dosage of meds. His country came up with ISIL afterall. Nothing this little perpetual bullshit artist says can be taken seriously… he’ll always be full of shit no matter what he does.
@Josh447: Oh I thought you were leaving? You don’t play football. You don’t play any sports. The guys you want to play with won’t play with a f*g (that’s their line of thinking). Stop trying to fit in… you’ll never be accepted.
Josh447
GiaPet,
“You don’t play football. You don’t play any sports. The guys you want to play with won’t play with a f*g (that’s their line of thinking). Stop trying to fit in… you’ll never be accepted.”
There ya go. The perfect look at your imagination. But this image is about you, and how nobody likes you cuz you’re reeeally wierd ugly and out of place (boohoo) and you just want everyone to suffer for your shortcomings. Oh shoot. I’m sorry, are you short too? And colored? Well you just think you got all the problems donchya? Now run along and sit in your smelly stew. You got alota resolvin ta do now donchya. And donchya get all the more testie now, you’re about maxed out. I’ll be up and outta here when my buddie honks the horn. But don’t tell anyone we’re hitt’n the woods after practice. That way we’ll know it’s you in the pink dress hide’n behind the trees. You’ll make the perfect pink pinata.
Giancarlo85
@Josh447: But… but… but… I thought the little chihuahua was gone? He’s still posting. I guess that “football game” has been cancelled. His football buddies found this site and saw him posting here… so they don’t want him around. His football buddies don’t like guys who pay more attention to their asses.
What a pile of incoherent bullshit thought. He wrote another paragraph and said absolutely nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEDlkw5AcIk
Josh447
If I said nuthin, then why are you wimpering like a little lost school girl, and writing back? Crush’n on me fag? And could it be you’re just a whole lotta nuthin? There, nailed. Have fun in your slop porkie. And no, masc4masc isn’t homophobic, it’s just plain hot. Ok, that’s him outside honkin a second time. Now don’t forget that pink dress sugarpuff.
AtticusBennett
i like when the same unhinged troll pretends to be different people.
i moved out on my own when i was in my senior year of high school. my parents and i don’t live on the same CONTINENT, let alone country. my dad has never gone on business trips to NYC. i lived in NYC between 2007 and 2011. my parents at the time lived in canada.
SeeingNothing is a wimpy coward, OffTheMark is a wimpy coward, whatever name he chooses – he’s a wimpy coward.
but hey, we can meet up at the Stonewall Inn. you express what it is about me that vexes you so, or what it is about gay life in general that you’re so angry about.
you’ve followed me for years across various gay sites, using various screen names. you can finally get the chance to meet me, face to face, and i think the Stonewall Inn is a perfect place for that. hash it out – and you can express what it is that’s kept you obsessing over me for years.
but we all know you will not show up. cowards never can.
AtticusBennett
@Josh447: you DO realize that your comments prove yourself wrong, eh? you know who talks like you? it’s an exclusive language – exclusive to broken gay boys still hoping their daddy will think they’re a real man. and you’re failing.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: If you’re saying I’M the one stalking you……who is it who started it up in this thread ?? And even if you did move out/run away from home at a certain age, something happened in the meantime. Now you can’t travel by yourself. Which is normally a psych problem not meant to be made fun of, but when you’re on the message boards calling others “broken wimps”…I mean…LOL. (You’re making gay men look like horrors).
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: And yes, your parents were in NYC when you were. That’s the only way you were able to be here. Now, are you sure you know where the Stonewall Inn is ? It’s right across from where your trannie friends vandalized the Segal statues. And not “uptown Manhattan” like you said in another thread.
onthemark
I’m definitely NOT SeeingEyeDog. He’s eager to meet Atticus in person, for some reason. I kind of like Stonewall but if I ever saw Atticus there I’d avoid him; I avoid mentally ill people. … Atticus obviously lives his entire life online, but this is the only gay site I ever post on. I spend more online commenting time at the Boston Globe (different screen name).
I’m surprised to hear, though, that Atticus ever goes outside, or claims to. That poor dog – he must shit in a cat litter box!
SeeingAll
@onthemark: I’m not “eager” to meet atticus (blech) but I will because, like I said, how else do I raise the standards of online discourse other than to actually meet up? (It also weeds out the liars and closet-cases).
SeeingAll
(I WOULD be eager to meet Jack Andraka or Michael Sam, though)
AtticusBennett
@SeeingAll: my parents visited me twice when i was living in NYC. they, at the time, were living in canada. they’ve been in the UK for years now.
at no point have i ever said that the Stonewall Inn was “uptown”.
but hey, you do what internet cowards do: tell lies about others because they can’t show the truth about themselves.
i’ve travelled “by myself” since i was a teen.
but nice of you to use a transphobic slur. that’s your character.
you lie about me because you can’t show the truth about yourself. i’ll let you know when i’m in town, and i’ll give you 90 minutes at the Stonewall Inn (BTW, anyone else is free to show up, too. tequilas will be purchased by me)
and when you don’t show up, which you won’t, you will be ignored from that day on. because i don’t roll with time-wasting chickens**t cowards.
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: You sure did. Someone wrote that the Stonewall Inn was uptown Manhattan in the late 60s and therefore must have been multi-racial and you gave it a thumbs-up. And no tequila..I won’t drink with you. And I sure won’t give you 90 minutes. So…you got the number.
SeeingAll
@SeeingAll: And call and give me YOUR number. I won’t give it to anybody else. But I want to be able to come to Toronto and contact you.
AtticusBennett
@SeeingAll: citation please
you won’t show, period. you’re a wimp.
anyone else is free to join! like i said, tequilas on me 🙂
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: I’d have to look over every Stonewall movie controversy post to find it.
AtticusBennett
@SeeingAll: really? meaning every post about a film that was released in september? fuck, you’re so lame you can’t even LIE well! right. i totally thought the stonewall inn was in uptown manhattan despite the wealth of actual evidence available that shows i’ve been frequenting it since 2007. sure thing, wimp.
lol
you can contact me via instagram or Facebook. 😀
but we all know how this is gonna play out: “he didn’t call the number i gave him that is reported online as being a number that has been used to utter death threats!” and that’ll be your excuse for not showing up. THIS is why you’re such an embarrassment to your family, you toad. you’re a tried and true coward.
or come to toronto in january and see me performing with the canadian opera company 🙂
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: You haven’t called the number yet.///// Which Canadian Opera Company ?
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: You’re the embarrassment to your family. That’s why they recently told your sister “Keep an eye on him” and fled to the UK. Ever see pics of Jack Andraka’s family posing with him ? Now THOSE are proud (rightly so) parents. As for my own parents, they’re neither proud nor ashamed, but…I couldn’t care less about them (this is what you can’t get into your nutty head). DaVinci and Michelangelo were homosexual. My mediocre parents are heterosexual. So….who will I feel better emulating ?? But because you and a few goofball folk you know had parent hangups, you think we all do.
Giancarlo85
@Josh447: And he’s still yapping away…
And SeeingNothing has produced another dozen posts and said nothing either. Can somebody actually come up with something original? Bouncing back insults isn’t going to work.
Giancarlo85
@Josh447: Masc4Masc is a pile of pretentious bullshit from people like you who aren’t masculine to begin with and would never make it into a locker room.
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: Yap, yap, yap..! (translation : “hush up, serial killer”).
SeeingAll
@AtticusBennett: It was on Towleroad. You gave it a thumbs-up as Little Kiwi.
dickrichard
@SeeingAll: You and Atticus Bennet seriously need to get a room and fuck each others brains to smithereens, cause’ this mud throwing “you’re the loser” b.s. is ridiculously irrelevant to the article at this point.
Get off of your phones and computers and get laid- and that’s an order!
MisterDemand
Shame to see this devolve into another masc v. fem debate.
While the whole “str8 4 st8” is clearly ludicrous and self-hating/self-denying, implying that “masc” is too, would mean being a “masculine gay man” (whatever that means to you) is an inherent contradiction; a premise often held by homophobes themselves.
There is no correct way to be gay. If u are fem great, if you are masc thats fine too.
SeeingAll
@dickrichard: No !! I don’t wanna f–k him. Trust me !!
SeeingAll
@MisterDemand: That’s a good way to put it.
Giancarlo85
Shush terrorist!
@MisterDemand: Fem wins out everytime. The MASK side of this debate is full of impotent weaklings Like Josh447 who hasn’t had a erection in over 20 years.
The “masculine gay man” is a misnomer… often misused by some gay men who hate feminine gay men. No other way around it.
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: You actually think Michael Sam isn’t masculine ??
Giancarlo85
Did the terrorist say something? Time to send in the Kurdish fighters!
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: Or Thomas Hitzlsperger ? Somehow somewhere someone told you homosexuality=effeminacy and you bought into it. Whereas I know homosexuality is relevant to a huge varied portion of mankind.
Giancarlo85
ISIL/Al Shabaab dude is back at it… next thing you know he’ll call for public hangings.
Giancarlo85
Also the idiot is trying to speak for me… what a monumental failure of existence. I don’t even know how this guy exists. From all the death threats online to all the nonsensical statements. How do you justify yourself?
SeeingAll
@Giancarlo85: Well….you can hope, Colombian.
Giancarlo85
Monumental failure!
As if he knows any gay people. His insults again feminine gay men are disturbing. But what can you expect from a disturbed mind?
Giancarlo85
*against
Hugh Walker
The whole gay liberation thing was about tolerance for another person’s preference – so let’s all be tolerant – and I say that as a not-very-masculine-at-all homosexual!
Cam
Wow, this conversation degenerated.
Again, I pretty much figure why limit yourself. Even if you normally are attracted to one type, you never know when somebody who is nothing like that type is going to come along and rock your world.
Some of these guys that think all they want is some stereotypical hyper-masculine guy, OR always want a very feminie guy never know if they relaxed a bit if they might like somebody different a bit more.
Also, I would not call the leather/Cowboy/Lumberjack etc… folks masculine mostly because it seems like just another form of being a drag queen.
Frankly I would call a stereo-typically fem guy who can take care of himself, has a good job, can handle life’s little emergencies and is there for others as a very together guy. A guy that puts on a leather harness and woofs at me when I’m walking by isn’t my definition of Masculine.