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Is This the Smoking Gun That Exposes the LDS Church Trying to Hide Its Involvement in Prop 8?

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We love ourselves some smoking guns, and at today’s Perry trial, it appears there is one that links the Mormon Church to the fight to pass Prop 8. As if you thought it was just a fairytale made up by radical homosexual activists.

“Emails and letters sent back and forth between the Prop 8 campaign and Catholic, LDS, and Evangelical churches” were at the center of a debate today between Judge Walker and the attorneys for both sides, over which could be admitted as evidence. But whether they make it into the case or not, the letters are becoming public evidence, thanks to the Courage Campaign highlighting them — including one from LDS that read: “With respect to Prop. 8 campaign, key talking points will come from campaign, but cautious, strategic, not to take the lead so as to provide plausible deniability or respectable distance so as not to show that church is directly involved.”

We love phrases like “plausible deniability,” especially when used in documents that show there is no plausible deniability available.

The documents also reveal how involved the Mormon Church was in going door-to-door; some 20,000 volunteers targeted very zip code in California. Interesting, because thus far LDS has only acknowledged some $20k in donated legal services, and just $2k donated to the “Yes On 8″ campaign directly.

If the documents are entered into evidence, it means attorneys will be able to use them in front of the Supreme Court, which is where Perry is inevitably headed. And right there, in front of the justices, will be evidence that the campaign was indeed rooted in religious-based discrimination, not some noble attempt to protect families.s

RELATED: Is This a Damning Report About the Mormon Church’s Involvement in Passing Proposition 8?

By:           editor editor
On:           Jan 20, 2010
Tagged:

  • 31 Comments
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      Perhaps this helps explain why the Mormons supported the anti-discrimination law in Salt Lake City. They saw this coming. Damage control.

      Religion is the only thing that makes homosexuality wrong. Expose them. Marginalize them.

      Jan 20, 2010 at 10:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wade MacMorrighan
      Wade MacMorrighan

      Well, that law had severe stipulations, such as the fact that it explicitely forbade gay marriage, which the law ACTUALLY says would do “violence to marriage”! Of course, the Mormons have a VERY religious perview of ANY and EVERY type of marriage under their civil jurisdiction. They believe that marriage literally bonds you, in the spiritual after-life, with your mate; and that if you are GOOD enough (so the Old School LDS thought was when I learned it back in the early 1990s) you and your mate could literally become gods of your own planet and Universe! So, they can’t imagine two MEN fulfilling this divine hierarchy as the gods of another race!

      BTW, the LDS Church *also* discriminated against blacks until, like, the 1970s, believing that they didn’t have souls! WTF?! As if Jesus actually had blue eyes and blond hair?! He was just a few miles from being black, himself! LOL! Silly, silly, Mormons…

      Jan 20, 2010 at 11:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 2 · Wade MacMorrighan

      A pity that they can’t back off a distance from themselves so they can see just how silly they really are. ;P

      Jan 20, 2010 at 11:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 1 · Brian NYC wrote, “Religion is the only thing that makes homosexuality wrong.”

      You need to be more specific. As written, you are blaming the Wiccans. Why piss them off when they can put a spell on
      homophobic Christians (not that I believe in spells, but some fundamentalist Christians probably do and it scares them).

      BTW the prop8trailtracker.com site claims they will be calling William Tam pretty soon. Be sure to watch for that. By the time Olson and Boies are done with him, he’ll look worse than a bad case of H1N1. What you can’t do to Tam legally, they will do to him figuratively, and it won’t be pretty.

      Jan 21, 2010 at 12:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHIP1218
      CHIP1218

      When it comes to Mormons, all I can ever think of is that South Park Musical Episode…”Dumb de dumb dumb dumb!”

      Jan 21, 2010 at 12:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wade macMorrighan
      Wade macMorrighan

      No. 3 · schlukitz: Indeed, one also wonders why they haven’t, yet, brought up the constant social and legislative/ civil discrimination that our brothers and sisters face in Utah, which is the Mormon Capital of the USA! Hell, so far as *I* know, every state legislator in Utah is a practicing Mormon. You almost can’t get voted into office without being one. Anyhoo…this would eb further substantiation over our constant vilification!

      No. 4 · B: As a practicing Witch and Pagan High Priest I have always been offended by these legislative initiatives that attempt to impose one obvious religiously-based ideology into the civil law for everyone to obey. it is also showing that they sincerely believe that their religion is superior to all others, and that they are attempting to enforce that through the legislative process–and that is WRONG on SO MANY levels!

      And, yes, I could threaten them with a curse, but they’d just use it to fuel their delusional animus about how “immoral” Gay people really are. *sigh* Personally, I have worked binding spells against anti-Gay bigots (still looking to see if the spell at Gallagher is taking ANY effect), as well as a spell involving the energies of the planet Jupiter to expand the consciousness of our citizens!

      But, still, I am absolutely offended by the notion of Christian Supremacists (I think we should coin that in a shameful way, along with “heterosexist”)!

      Oh, and I don’t identify as “Wiccan”, because popular culture has started to view “Wiccans” not as serious members of a devoted Priesthood, but as “fluff bunnies” as we call them (it’s a serious term of abuse in the Pagan religions).

      Jan 21, 2010 at 1:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Three’s company? The Catholics and Evangelical Protestants teaming up w/ Mormons on Prop 8 and the anti gay marriage movements nationwide is freaking fascinating, because without us as the common enemy they’d be fighting each other about the “one true religion” and competing for souls in the Third World. And our US version of the third world (= inner cities).

      Troubling to see what level of deception the LDS employed in hiding their contributions and involvement in Prop 8. This may bite them in the ass as it gets publicized and lead to uncovering the real, unstated agenda behind the Prop.

      Jan 21, 2010 at 1:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jake
      Jake

      Here’s my take on the Prop 8 Mormon thing.. they have tax exempt status, right? Welll, if they’re going to dip their toe in the pond of government, Tax the FUCK out of them and all churches. I have a real weird problem with religion getting involved in government, it’s why we have the illusion of a government and not a dictatorship (feifdom) run by the churches like Europe had in the Dark Ages. I’m also Pagan, more of the Norse tradition, and I agree with you, Brian, I could have Odin come down on some of these people, but why waste the energy, and besides, The Wiccan Rede states, and ye harm none, do what thou will. What you send forth comes back to bite you in the ass x3. I also agree with you and really find the term “fluff bunny” offensive too. Blessed Be

      Jan 21, 2010 at 1:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jake
      Jake

      Here’s my take on the Prop 8 Mormon thing.. they have tax exempt status, right? Welll, if they’re going to dip their toe in the pond of government, Tax the FUCK out of them and all churches. I have a real weird problem with religion getting involved in government, it’s why we have the illusion of a government and not a dictatorship (feifdom) run by the churches like Europe had in the Dark Ages. I’m also Pagan, more of the Norse tradition, and I agree with you, Brian, I could have Odin come down on some of these people, but why waste the energy, and besides, The Wiccan Rede states, and ye harm none, do what thou will. What you send forth comes back to bite you in the ass x3. I also agree with you and really find the term “fluff bunny” offensive too. Blessed Be and have a great week!

      Jan 21, 2010 at 1:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jake
      Jake

      oOPS sorry for the duplicate post

      Jan 21, 2010 at 1:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tackle
      Tackle

      Thank god that this document came out! Now mabey the racist gays will drop all this crap about the black church being sooo homophobic. It seems that blacks played very little in the defeat of prop-8. I have been saying all along that the so-called black church/community is no more homophobic then any other race/group/ethnicty or religious denominations.

      Jan 21, 2010 at 5:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Black churches are just as culpable as the Mormon church. Black churches are notoriously homophobic.

      Jan 21, 2010 at 7:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tackle
      Tackle

      Some people just do not want to change and admit they are wrong.They want a reason to hold on to their racist beliefs. Any group can be “just as culpable” But im dealing with the facts in the defeat of prop-8.The black church had very little to do with it not passing.In terms of the amount of money raised, spent and the foot soldiers. No, you cannot blame this one one the black church.

      And what this document left out was the vast amount of money donated by the Church of Scientology and the Southern Baptist.
      Believe what you want. The truth is that the black church or no black is front and center DICTATING and CONTROLLING an agenda against the GLTB community . They DONOT have that type of power.

      Jan 21, 2010 at 8:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      @Tackle:

      They may not have the power but when you get right down to it they are NOT on our side. They are on the bigots’ side, and they will be treated like any other bigots would be. With scorn, derision, and contempt. You are the one bringing up the red herring of so-called “racist” gays who are rightly calling out those who inexplicably belong to the cult that enslaved their ancestors and use the same arguments used to deny their rights to deny ours.

      I believe what is true. The truth is, a majority (but not all) the black churches are homophobic. The truth is, the majority (but not all) of black voters in CA supported Prop H8. They were not the generals in the War on Gays, but they are foot soldiers. If you can’t accept that you need to pull your head out of your ass.

      Any church preaching bigotry needs to lose its tax exemption and pay out the nose. Period.

      Jan 21, 2010 at 1:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 6 · Wade macMorrighan wrote, “And, yes, I could threaten them with a curse, but they’d just use it to fuel their delusional animus about how “immoral” Gay people really are.”

      Just for the record, I was (of course) joking about the curse – the real point was to get “Brian NYC” to tone down his anti-religion rhetoric, which ignores the fact that religion is not synonymous with a particular group of monotheistic religions. Brian was more or less marginalizing all the rest, probably unintentionally.

      Jan 21, 2010 at 9:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • essay
      essay

      Yawn. This isn’t some big revelation. It’s well known the LDS Church urged it’s members to volunteer and donate – that’s not a big secret. They asked of it’s members to take the lead, which is why the LDS Church itself donated so little. And no where in this so-called “smoking gun” does it say, “discriminate against gays”. Basically, this is a non-story. The LDS Church and other churches and their members defend a societal and cultural value they feel is a moral issue. But just because it disagrees with someone else’s opinion doesn’t mean there’s hate or homophobia involved.

      Jan 22, 2010 at 1:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 15 · essay

      They asked of it’s members to take the lead, which is why the LDS Church itself donated so little

      Some documentation to back that claim up, please.

      And no where in this so-called “smoking gun” does it say, “discriminate against gays”.

      Ah. Then there are other, still undisclosed minorities in Prop8 that were discriminated against and whom we have not yet heard about?

      More documentation, puleeeeeze!

      But just because it disagrees with someone else’s opinion doesn’t mean there’s hate or homophobia involved.

      Doh! That’s like saying Yeah. I shot that god-damned, animal-fucking, incestuous, pedophile right between the eyeballs like he deserved, but that don’t mean that I hate him.

      And who, besides the homosexuals suffered the loss of their already existing rights in California, pray tell? No hate or homophobia here, folks. No siree!

      And by your twisted line of reasoning, you are obviously perfectly okay with imposing societal and cultural values and moral positions on those who are not members of the Morman Church? Perhaps you would like to live under Islam or Sharia law?

      What of an American’s constitutional right to worship as he pleases…or not to worship at all?

      Man, you may not realize it, but you just trashed the Constitution with that bout of verbal diarrhea, Essay.

      Jan 22, 2010 at 2:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • floyd
      floyd

      I had no idea you had a gay agenda.
      I just might unsuscribe. I’m pleased that the LDS takes a staand on such disgusting practice.

      Jan 22, 2010 at 10:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 17 · floyd

      I just might unsuscribe.

      Be assured that this is our fervent hope.

      Jan 22, 2010 at 3:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • essay
      essay

      @schlukitz: Schlukitz, does the term, “overgeneralization” mean anything to you? So if someone disagrees with someone else, that means that they automatically “hate” them? And you’re comparing gays to pedophiles? Wow.
      Those “values and moral positions” are shared by many others than just the Mormon Church – every election on this issue across the country has proved that time and time again.
      And as far as this so-called document being a “smoking gun” with “plausible deniability” quoted from the Mormon Church – this article needs to check it’s facts:
      http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/01/the-mormon-hierarchys-plausible-deniability-ctd.html

      Jan 23, 2010 at 10:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 19 · essay

      Thank you for your side-stepping reply.

      And here is another, what you are sure to call over generalization for you to munch on. Side-stepping direct questions is what the Mormon Church, Christians and you do so well. You make wild assertions, I ask for documentation and you retort with “does the term, ‘overgeneralization’ mean anything to you?” Where is the checking of your so-called facts?

      And you’re comparing gays to pedophiles? Wow.

      That is a misquote of what I did say and a disingenuous lie; another thing that the Mormons, Christians and now apparently you, do so well. I NEVER compared gays to pedophiles. Please go back and re-read what I said. Comparing gays to pedophiles is what the Mormons, Christians and Mr. Obama have done, over and over and over, which is why my comment was set-off in italics. Do brush-up on your reading skills, before miss-quoting what other people say. Deliberate twisting what people say is not only dishonest, it lacks credibility and is also very unbecoming a person.

      Those “values and moral positions” are shared by many others than just the Mormon Church

      Who give a good shit? Your values and moral positions belong to YOU and those who share them. The rest of the populace, who do not share YOUR values and moral positions, are under no obligation, whatsoever, to live their by them, just as I am not required, as a born-American and living in America, to live by Islam rules or Sharia Law.

      every election on this issue across the country has proved that time and time again.

      Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ejoy your gloating time. It won’t last all that much longer. It was people, exactly like you, who also believed that it was a value and a moral position” to vote against the civil-rights of women and blacks. When was it, again, that the Mormon Church finally let blacks come in the door? Louder, please, I can’t hear your reply.

      Despite the wrong and hateful votes of people who think exactly like you, equality prevailed and and history will also prove that you were wrong on the issue of gay-equality as well.

      Blather on all you will about elections. The founding fathers never meant for the rights and equality of any living being to be voted on by a majority. That’s not a democratic republic. That’s mob rule.

      or be subject to laws people like you like to pass to subjugate and control minorities. Does the term “separation of church and state” mean anything to you?

      Thank you for a “non-response”. Apparently, it was all you were able to muster-up.

      So typical of religious values and moral positioned people like you.

      Jan 23, 2010 at 12:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • God
      God

      @Brian NYC:

      Homosexuality is wrong. A man and a man can not procreate and have children in a natural way; they can only adopt. A woman and a woman can not have have natural intercourse either, and must rely on artificial insemination or adoption. Man and woman were meant to have intercourse together to produce more people to inhabit the earth. Homosexuals are not what I created. Sexual sin may seem to be a pleasure to the homosexuals, but in the end, they will all stand before the judgment bar.

      Feb 10, 2010 at 12:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      @ #22: the effrontery of your I.D. and your post borders on the retarded and/or pathological. Don’t post here. You have nothing to offer this forum. BTW: We now have more people on earth than it can handle, soon to be a catastrophe.

      Feb 10, 2010 at 12:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 23 · romeo

      BTW: We now have more people on earth than it can handle, soon to be a catastrophe.

      That’s precisely what they are looking for. These bible-thumping idiots have given it the a nice, sugar-coated name.

      The Rapture. They can’t wait for it to happen. Then, when these bigoted, homophobic assholes are sitting in heaven, at the right hand of God, looking down with pleasure on all those “sinners” frying and screaming in hell, they can pat themselves on the back and say “You see…we told you so, but did you listen

      Sick fucks. They need to get a fucking life of their own, instead of trying to live everyone elses lives for them.

      Feb 10, 2010 at 12:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      @Schlukitz: I’m not religious, though I can understand some people having a need for it. But even I’m offended by the sacreligiousness of #21. An insult not only to us, many of whom are religious, but to religious people generally. But the anonymity of the net allows a lot of sick fucks to party.

      Does kind of make me want to ask where He was 70 years ago when innocent people were being murdered in the tens of millions, and he’s worried about some gay people now?

      Feb 10, 2010 at 1:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cassandra
      Cassandra

      “Does kind of make me want to ask where He was 70 years ago when innocent people were being murdered in the tens of millions, and he’s worried about some gay people now?”

      Where were atheists?

      Where were the atheists when the Stasi in East Germany inflicted so much oppression?

      Oh, that’s right – East Germany was rabidly anti-religion, and as such, is an example of unrestrained atheism.

      Feb 10, 2010 at 2:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 25 · romeo

      Umm…Romeo, I am totally confused by your response.

      Post No. 21 was made by me…in response to Post no. 20 by essay, who deliberately twisted my words and misquoted me in an earlier post and in I attempted to set the record straight. Needless to say, he neither acknowledged his error or apologized for.

      I have always enjoy your posts and agree with them. Yet, here you are, not only misquoting me as well, but accusing me of “sacreligiousness”???

      Sacrilegiousness: A ludicrous and vilifying charge by religious people, aimed at those who would dare speak out against religious bigots who would do harm those who they hate with impunity.

      I am not religious either, but unlike you, I cannot understand people having a need for something that has proven itself, over and over, to make homosexuals wrong and which seeks to denigrate a whole minority class and deprive them of their civil rights in addition to taking away the civil rights they already had, via vis Prop 8 in California to name but one violation of our rights.

      To my way of thinking, pointing out that the Mormons, Catholics and other religious extremist groups are homophobic and are stepping over the line and violating their tax-free status while indulging themselves in secular, political affairs is in entirely appropriate, especially when they have continually lied and made false statements about the LGBT community time and time again to beat us down.

      Sorry. People who seek to vilify me, keep me unequal and steal what few rights I do have remaining, will NOT get a free pass from this queer.

      But the anonymity of the net allows a lot of sick fucks to party.

      That’s below the belt, Romeo and unbecoming a gentlemen, which I had assumed to be. Exactly where and where was it that I stooped to calling you names on any of these threads?

      Oh…and 70 years ago, I was only three years old and barely out of my baby crib. Exactly what was it that you felt that I should have been doing for some gay people then?

      No wonder these people can get away with murder when so many people are willing to defend them and cloak them in impunity!

      Feb 10, 2010 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      Cassandra, you’re comparing what the Stasi did to the Nazis they replaced? Which, incidentally preached a rabid form of Christianity to facilitate their policies of repression and murder. And it wasn’t just the fundies in Germany, even mainstream religion sects went along with it. Christianity failed seventy years ago, Cassandra. It’s entire reason for being, any efficacy, was shown to be worthless.

      A reasonable agnosticism, or even total atheism, are a perfectly legitimate reaction for intelligent people to have to the world around them and their own state of being. Note that I am referring to intelligent people.

      Feb 10, 2010 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      Sorry Schlu, I meant 22. LOL

      Feb 10, 2010 at 2:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 26 · Cassandra

      Where were atheists? you asked?

      Well, they sure as hell were not the ones who voted to take away same-sex marriage in California as the religious right did with Prop. 8.

      Let’s hear it for Christianity.

      Feb 10, 2010 at 2:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 29 · romeo

      Sorry Schlu, I meant 22. LOL

      Thanks for letting me hear from you.

      You know, I took another look at the order of postings on this thread after I posted my comment no. 27 and got to wondering if no. 22 was indeed who you had meant it for.

      Sorry I went off on ya, buddy.

      I redirect that post to no. 22 God and no. 26 Casaandra. lol

      Feb 10, 2010 at 2:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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