Comments on: Jurors to Decide in San Diego Fireman-Pride Parade Lawsuit

By: magdelyn

magdelyn — Tue, 26 May 2009 20:04:25 +0000

Let’s stop the baloney here. I assume the SD parade is much like the San Francisco parade. Nudity, profane gestures, simulated (and sometimes) real sex acts are performed in public, ass-less chaps….blah blah blah. It’s not a pride parade, its a exhibit out sexuality parade, the type of which would put a straight guy behind bars.

Why should anyone be forced to watch it?

By: Jaroslaw

Jaroslaw — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:39:58 +0000

Perhaps it is not as clear as I thought. Serving the public or working any job usually requires SOMETHING you personally don’t agree with. (so yes to participating in a parade even if you disagree with the military being there etc.) The firefighters or any other public service job do not get to pick which part of the community they serve. Being required to go to a parade for a couple hours once a year is nothing to complain about. So yes, we agree, all the public must be served as equally as possible.

By: Sebbe

Sebbe — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:26:44 +0000

@Jaroslaw – are you saying that they have no obligation to serve all of the public? Because imo they do. What if someone is against war and the military? Don’t they still have to participate in those parades, veteran’s day or whatever?

Maybe I misunderstood your statement though?

By: Jaroslaw

Jaroslaw — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:02:08 +0000

Sebbe – Just to be clear, serving ALL the public is very different than forcing someone to contribute financially to partisan politics and only one party at that.

By: Sebbe

Sebbe — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:43:29 +0000

Well they are “public servants”. I think it would be different in the private sector. I know someone who used to work for a law firm that wanted them to participate in all these crazy republican fundraisers and events. He ended up quitting and I’m sure it not legal (at least in Boston) where he was.

By: Jaroslaw

Jaroslaw — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:16:38 +0000

Oh please! Firemen serve the entire community, participating in a parade would be considered community relations. Either that, or they don’t participate in ANY parades. Which of course isn’t going to happen.

Many things on many jobs have facets I, You and everyone else disagrees with but do you quit? Advocate too vigorously for change and get fired?

By: HYHYBT

HYHYBT — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 07:41:10 +0000

Does that phrase normally include advocating for political causes you disagree with?

By: Jaroslaw

Jaroslaw — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:19:53 +0000

Many employment contracts, mine included, has a lovely phrase “and duties as assigned.” Any comments?

By: petted

petted — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:11:55 +0000

http://www3.signonsandiego.com.....ade131452/

Since they were only in the truck and its likely that even during a parade a skeleton crew is required to be on the truck in case of an emergency i.e. a fire one could view the situation as follows because there must be a skeleton crew on a fire truck at all times its in motion even during public engagements then it was as much a part of their duty to see to the availability of the fire truck during a parade as it would be to be in a state of preparedness at the fire station in the event a fire breaks out.

By: Jaroslaw

Jaroslaw — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:30:39 +0000

It seems silly to force someone to be in a parade, but then lots of jobs require things much more inconvenient than that. As I and others have already said, this seems like a transparent grab for cash.

And if they were so traumatized and humiliated, then how do they think it feels to be Gay all day?

By: petted

petted — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:24:00 +0000

“They [4 firemen] each testified that the San Diego gay pride parade of 2007 left them with nausea, headaches, anxiety and other forms of emotional distress, however they were not made to interact with the crowd during the parade, and, as reported by the Union Tribune were allowed to go through the parade with the windows up and listening to music if they so chose, which, half way through, they did. ”

http://www.care2.com/causes/ci.....gain/send/

“San Diego Police Chief William Lansdowne took the stand today in the Superior Court case involving four firefighters who sued the city on a sexual harassment complaint after they were ordered to ride a fire engine in the 2007 gay pride parade.
Lansdowne testified he marched in the last five pride parades, or every year since he became chief in 2003. He said he has no trouble getting officers to march in any parade, including the pride parade, where some officers are on duty and others are there voluntarily.”
http://www.miketidmus.com/blog.....kes-pride/

I know the fire Chief was in the crowd and it looks like there are at least 3 guys in the fire truck so I think the only reason they needed those 4 guys would be so that they could have the fire truck and have fire men who did volunteer out and able to mingle with the crowd – though does anyone know why they would need 4 firemen to be in the fire truck during the parade?

By: petted

petted — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:08:59 +0000

I believe there were more then 4 firemen at the event – though I haven’t found any specific numbers – it’d be nice to hear what they had to say.

By: HYHYBT

HYHYBT — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:39:46 +0000

It doesn’t seem right that anyone should be *forced* to participate in a pride parade, but the price tag is absurd. Of course “common sense is not allowed.”

By: sdandy

sdandy — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 06:35:47 +0000

If they were up in the trucks they were far away and “safe” from anyone harassing them. Unfortunately, as they were ‘forced’ to participate it makes it a lot more of a gray area. But still they are just grabbing for some cash.

By: dgz

dgz — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:38:57 +0000

@blake:
seriously, great analysis.
do you happen to know what the cash awards in the strip-club harassment cases looked like? i would hope that in this case an official apology would be considered equitable relief. a mill seems ridiculously punitive.

and then maybe the city should make sensitivity training for the entire department mandatory — nothing “harassing” about that!

By: Jaroslaw

Jaroslaw — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:08:44 +0000

Let me see if I get this straight, no pun intended – you can run into a burning building and DIE at any moment but a few catcalls at a parade has you unhinged? BS.

And Blake, I think you’d agree the confines of a dark strip club is probably a lot more intimidating to a woman than a parade in broad daylight. They admitted they didn’t feel threatened.

A million dollars because they felt “uncomfortable” again, is BS. Please “abuse” me for a couple hours so I can get a million dollars.

By: petted

petted — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:34:13 +0000

Actually the SDFD did seek volunteers for the parades but 4 people dropped out last minute so they didn’t have enough time to seek new volunteers.

By: Sebbe

Sebbe — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:28:26 +0000

Clearly they are just after some money. But, seems like the way to go forward is for them to have people “volunteer” to work (since they are getting paid) and whomever doesn’t want to doesn’t get the overtime.

By: blake

blake — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:56:18 +0000

This is a tricky case. Everyone knows that Pride Parades are sexually charged (nudity, simulated sex acts, etc). Women have successfully sued employers for being forced to attend business meetings that their male counterparts and customers wanted to be held at female strip clubs. Therefore, an argument could be made that the firefighters were forced to participate in a highly sexual event.

I think the city erred by making participation mandatory. Had the city ordered firefighters to attend a gay professional recruiting event, the city would be on stronger grounds.