Things just got worse for Brandon McInerney, the fourteen year old who allegedly shot Lawrence King earlier this year. McInerney reportedly shot his schoolmate after King gave him a valentine.
Now, despite action from all sides of the debate – including gay activists – a judge decided to try McInerney as an adult:
Relying on past court decisions, a judge ruled Thursday that trying a 14-year-old boy accused of murder in an adult court does not violate the constitution, swatting down legal arguments raised by the boy’s attorney that it was cruel and unusual punishment to do so.
“I cannot say that this is unconstitutional,” said Ventura County Superior Court Judge Douglas Daily.
Though things look bad for McInerney, the teen’s lawyer also cited other cases in which juveniles convicted in adult court successfully lobbied for lighter sentences.
Regardless of the ultimate outcome, this shit’s mad messed up. We have a dead boy and another who’s life might as well be over. This is a perfect example of a homophobic culture’s horrific repercussions…
How about we take this to the next level?
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ksu499
This *is* the biggest tragedy: that one is dead and another life is essentially done at age 14 because he was boiled in a culture that convinced him that murder was the appropriate response to the perceived attention/attraction of an apparently gay person of the same gender. A couple of years ago as an anti-gay adoption bill was briefly considered in the IL or IN (can’t remember which) legislature, one legislator got up and talked about how having parents of the same gender would make life so hard for a child due to the taunts and treatment from other kids.
Reading this I could not help but wish that some had challenged him on who is it that teaches the other children that there is something strange or wrong with that scenario. Children are not born to taunt other children with gay parents. Children are not born to kill other boys who make passes at them. Someone teaches it to them.
Brandon
im glad that he is being tried as an adult. he knew killing someone was wrong, and i hope he rots in prison.
CHURCHILL-Y
I think nothing good will come out of locking up this kid till he reaches middle age or older.
And while the crime he committed was horrific he is still a kid of 14 years of age, there’s no excuse for trying him as an adult. There has to be a more humane and productive way of making justice for Lawrence King while at the same time avoiding to destroy this child’s life also.
Brandon
he is 14, its not like he didnt know right from wrong. this teen is a killer, im all for locking his homophobic ass in prison.
Woof
Church – Profound comments, not how would you have responded if shooter was black? I’m just saying.
Woof
*not = now
CHURCHILL-Y
Nobody knows for certain what was/is going through this child’s mind and if he really can discern right from wrong. It is obvious that for him to get to the point where he did there must be a huge amount of emotional distress to say the least. That in no way excuses the crime he committed but what purpose will it serve us to see him rot in prison?
This is a minor, who if given a proper and just punishment in accordance with his age could become in the future a productive member of American society.
hells kitchen guy
He’s cute. He should do quite well for himself in adult prison as someone’s bitch.
IDNY
His parents should also be on trial for this horrific crime.
They are the ones who are truly at fault here. I kind of feel bad for the boy. To be taught that those kinds of actions and thoughts that lead to those actions are OK or even good is frightening. The kid never had a chance in life. That is truly criminal.
Hatred is taught and bigots are made.
ger
Woof, your comment is spot on.
foofyjim
I guess I don’t understand why we try any children as adults? It seems we only do so when the crime is particularly offensive. What was the purpose of setting up a juvenile court system? It seems we determine how to try children based on the crime as opposed to the science of when people are able to make rational decisions.
I don’t think this kid made a rational decision. I don’t think he was able to consider what the long-term ramifications were. I don’t think he had a real appreciation for life and death. I think the adult whose gun he used should be rotting in jail.
foofyjim
Yes, I would feel the same way if were black.
jack
to say that this child at fourteen “knew what he was doing is absurd”. he clearly needs psych help and counseling.
he MIGHT be a danger to society later, but that is for professionals to figure out. barring a diagnosis of psychiatric disorder or mental impairment, i would think there might be SOME hope for him.
it seems too pat, but there is a better than 50/50 chance he himself is or was experiencing same sex attraction or previous molestation and hadn’t the emotional tools or adult support to handle these issues.
i hope brandon is just being a troll, as i would hate to think anyone is actually walking around thinking like that.
jack
Evah21
I do agree with you in that the point of juvenile courts seems rather pointless since we try children as adults more frequently.
However, if Brandon was 18, would you be saying the same thing about rationality? Is killing someone (regardless of age) a rational decision for anybody? I would say no, it’s not a rational decision. Sure, some people are jerks and plan things out regardless of the consequences. But not every single time, crimes of passion happen everyday. Is there rationality in a 21 year old beating up another person because he’s gay? Does that person’s age make his decision rational?
Sure, this boy is only 14 years old, but he obviously thought at least a little bit about what he would do to Lawrence because he went out and found a gun. You might still be able to consider this a “crime of passion” regardless of his little planning, but honestly, the fact that the kid found a gun, took it to school, and purposely shot another person in the head is not excusable behind the guise of an irrational decision made by a teen. Brandon is 14 years old, old enough to know what is right from wrong and to know that people who kill other people go to jail. That isn’t a fact we hide from children until they turn 18. We aren’t talking about an elementary school child, we’re talking about a teenager on the brink of adulthood. He might not have thought about the long-term ramifications, but I wonder how many adults who commit murder really consider the consequences at the time.
Though frankly, I am ashamed of his parents for allowing their child to grow up into this horrible person. We can blame Brandon for the act, but his thought process and behavior is a product of bad parenting.
Mad Professah
I had opposed trying Lawrence King’s killer as an adult and I am absolutely against the death penalty (for anyone) but as I think about it now, I really don’t have too much of a problem of treating pre-meditated murder as an “adult” crime.
I believe that is what “trying a juvenile as an adult” means: the crime the juvenile committed is so horrific that the “kid” doesn’t get to hide behind their age as a defense.
I do think their age can be brought up during sentencing and I agree that there must have been some kind of psychological defect which led to the killing.
You shoot a classmate point blank in the head — TWICE — because he wanted to be your valentine? Sick in the head!
How many of you read the NEWSWEEK story on the case?
Willie Hewes
I don’t think he should be tried as an adult. I thought the idea behind juvenile courts was not just that kids aren’t rational or don’t realise what they’re doing, but that kids can learn to be right even after they’ve done wrong. Their personality is still forming, so there’s hope for redemption? I may be wrong though.
Either way, yes, this whole thing is just too tragic. Two young lives destroyed in the name of hate.
Alan down in Florida
I think IDNY and Jack have both nailed this issue.
Donald
Since the courts and our laws were founded based on biblical principles and our political representatives like to establish that fact, allow me to point out that the Bible is very clear on this subject.
Numbers 3:16 – 3:21
16 But anyone who strikes another with an iron object, and death ensues, is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. 17Or anyone who strikes another with a stone in hand that could cause death, and death ensues, is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. 18Or anyone who strikes another with a weapon of wood in hand that could cause death, and death ensues, is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. 19The avenger of blood is the one who shall put the murderer to death; when they meet, the avenger of blood shall execute the sentence. 20Likewise, if someone pushes another from hatred, or hurls something at another, lying in wait, and death ensues, 21or in enmity strikes another with the hand, and death ensues, then the one who struck the blow shall be put to death; that person is a murderer; the avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death when they meet.
Notice the words “anyone”. There is no exclusion.
Brandon McInerney brought a gun to school and shot Lawerence King in front of his classmates. This is a fact. There were many witnesses to that event. That is a textbook definition of premeditated murder. He knew exactly what he was doing.
I also agree with many other posters on here. His parents should be put on trial as well. It was their duty and responsibility, as the parents who brought him into the world, to teach him, educate him, and mentor him in the ways of right and wrong. They, obviously, failed in that task.
Tara
Wow, so much hate. I go and read right wing blogs where they say “ohh gay people hate us etc” and I think wow, that makes no sense. Then I read this kind of drivel and wonder. Some of you people scream out for blood like we are in battle. Vengeance is the right of the effected. Most, if not all of us here, are not directly effected by this crime. Sad, we are hurt by it yes, but we have no right to vengeance, no right to judge this.
He is a child, if asked he would deny it, but he is a child. One who needs to be punished for his crimes. That being said, if you get off on that you are a sick fuck. Seriously.
You do not get to feel joy at the suffering of this boy, and he will suffer, as many of us on this blog have not suffered, thankfully. You do not get to enjoy that and sit on your high horse. You bring yourself below his level in doing so. He did what he did. That is done, you all have a choice, to forgive him in your heart and treat him as another human being or so make rivalry at his pain, then you are no better than he.
Tom
I do not see any redemptive qualities in this murderer. But frankly, in regard to his punishment, it really doesn’t matter whether he is tried as an adult or juvenile, he will most likely be convicted of some form of manslaughter and receive a 5-7 year sentence. But I anticipate he will not reform and will emerge as some type of hero for the skinhead/kkk/aryan nation nation crowd. Just think, he killed a “twofer” a minority and a fag. His next victim will probably be a woman.
Trenton
Tara:
As Nietzsche said: ‘ich bin gerecht,’ klingt immer gleich wie: ‘ich bin gerächt.’ It’s true that a certain sort of bloodlust and vengeance lingers in the servive of ‘justice’ in cases like this. It’s true that we cannot undo what has been done through trying him. It’s true that the people most directly affected are King’s and McIrney’s loved ones. In the case of the latter, they created their own hell by rearing their child(/adult) to think that murder was an appropriate response to the *horrifying emasculation* of being liked by another man. In the case of the former, they have lost their child and no judgment will bring him back…
BUT as for me…as someone who was beaten to a pulp on an almost daily basis for being gay over a period of several years when I was slightly younger than the late Lawrence (despite the fact that I had never even heard of ‘gay people’ at that age) I cannot help but think…Fuck you. Fuck you, Tara, because we are in battle. Most of us here are light-heartd people who are the belle of the ball in the right circles, but the moment we step out of those zones we have guns and knives and nooses shoved in our faces. YOU don’t have a clue, my dear, just what a battle this actually is. It’s a battle in which we rarely, if ever, draw any blood but our own in the face of threats and hatred and derision. It’s a battle in which every death, no matter the age or the region, reminds us that we are in harm’s way simply because of whom we love. Is it any woner that we snap a bit when things like this happen? It’s a messy battle, my dear. So I say let McIrney and his loved ones be broken and held up as examples of what happens to those who maim or kill others because of whom they love.
Names will never hurt us…we can weather the second class citizenship, the stereotyping, the ostracizing. Some fine day, all of that will end. But we’d like to live to see that day, Tara. Sticks and stones WILL break our bones, and I for one am VERY weary of it. I do not hate McIrney. I do wish that he had never made that fatal mistake and that his life weren’t ruined. But he did make that mistake and his life IS ruined. At least his life isn’t over, as King’s now is.
This isn’t about vengeance. This is about prevention.
That said, I think he should be tried as a juvenile; his parents should be tried as adults. However, our system doesn’t work that way, so he shall serves as their surrogate in his sentence. Pity pity pity…
PS: I repeat, tara, in case you didn’t catch it the first time: You don’t have a clue. Fuck you.
Tara
Trenton dear, you have no idea what clues I have or do not have, please do not presume to. You would note that I never claimed he should be tried in any way. I am commenting on bloodlust, joy at another suffering, pain, mistakes what have you. I was beaten, yes, I was disdained, yes and I have fought back, I have been bloody and bloodied others when necessary. I have done things I am proud of and things I am ashamed of.
One cannot prevent violence by reveling in pain. The two are mutually exclusive.
To the the God that people like McIrney worship we are evil and vile and deserve to be broken and held up as examples. So who is right?
The reality is we have laws, not vengeance. When we use them, when they work things can change and sometimes people are punished, people are broken, for justice. We cannot find joy in that, if we do then we are not better and in many ways worse than the boy we judge. We will gloat in blogs and nets that this child is being raped in prison. We hide and sneer. That is disgusting, there is no honor in that.
So Fuck Me? Ok then, you can hate me as well, you can hate the boy, you can watch him suffer in effigy for your own wounds. That does not change the fact that in my heart I feel sorrow, sorrow for the Kings, who lost their love, sorrow for the McIrneys who have lost the same, sorrow for the “mistakes” and sorrow for the hate and pain, all of it.
Fuck me.
Bob
This was a pre-meditated, cold-blooded murder, and is an adult crime. I hope this kid is jailed for the rest of his life. Yes, I know — I’ll be attacked on here for being oh-so unenlightened. So be it. That still doesn’t change the fact that this was a pre-meditated, cold-blooded murder. No matter how much you all rant and scream at how we’re all horrible, vengeance-loving neanderthals, that simple fact will NEVER change.
Bob
Tara, you write: The reality is we have laws, not vengeance. When we use them, when they work things can change and sometimes people are punished, people are broken, for justice.
Yes, dear, we do. And the LAW just said this murderer should be tried as an adult. Simple fact. So get over it.
Tara
Bob, Did I say he shouldn’t?
Bill Perdue
Excellent! The penalty should be life without the possibility of parole or death. No indeterminate sentencing!
The increase of these murders in this election year is escalating at a frightening pace. Much of the blame for that lies with Congressional Democrats and Republicans who decided that our rights and lives were expendable.
The Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes bill passed both houses and then they junked it because it’s an election year.
Lawrence King is one of several GLBT young men and women stabbed, hacked, bludgeoned and shot to death since they dropped that bill. How many more will die before our lives are no longer a question of election year expediency.
Bob
No, Tara, but you certainly passed judgment on those of us who think it’s not only fair, but deserved.
Trenton
Tara:
Trala…I retract one iota of my former statement. You do have a measure of a clue. But the rest stands.
This isn’t pure schadenfreude. That’s a German phrase you should know. The one above was: ‘I am justly served’ sounds always as ‘I am avenged.’ So reread what I said and you will see that I am not reveling. And I truly do not hate McIrney. I certainly don’t hate you. My reaction was based on your insinuation that we are not in the midst of a battle and that our pity should extend to the perpetrator as much as the victims. It’s true that in a sense McIrney was a victim of his upbringing by backwater hegemons…but he made the ultimate decision. So fuck him.
And on that note, I will say that some of the posts above were less than savory. I may have wrongly judged the intent of your first post, not realizing that it was most directed toward those who posed sadistic fantasies about the fate of McIrney. I saw only the suggestion that this child/adult was deserving of anything less than the full ruin of his actions. He does, and he’s going to get it, thank goodness.
In days past, the corpses of vermin and executed men hung in public places as deterrents to those who would transgress. Further back, enemies of our tribes were impaled for public display. We haven’t come so far. This disgust at the act, this reveling in the fall of the enemies of our tribe isn’t a pretty part of human nature…but it is natural. I for one won’t be gleefully dwelling on thoughts of McIrney’s torments because I do think that it’s morbid and uncivil to take pleasure in the pain of others, and a waste of time and energy to boot. But I am glad that ‘justice’ (whatever that may mean) is being served. And I will excuse this glee in others, because, as I said, I find it a natural reaction, though one I would like to see overcome through empathy. It certainly won’t be overcome through civilizaion.
It’s all too kind of you to extend such pity to McIrney and his kin. And I think that we are in fact of the same mind in terms of the purpose of justice. But stop sermonizing about the joyless mirth of schadenfreude; it’s instinctual and it’s not going away any time soon. I’m sure you felt it necessary to take a scolding tone because you realized that a softer, wiser mode of putting it would have appeared impotent. Indeed, it would have. So in the future just don’t bother. You have a keen mind and an empathetic heart. It would be a pity to waste that on the wrong sort of pity. Save it for the coup de grâce. Plowshares to swords, darling.
Tara
Tenton,
I think you fully understand what I was saying. That is a real rarity for me, so thank you. The thing is, in the future I will continue to say these things, loudly, because someone must. The reality of the situation is that I dream of a day when we can avoid the cycle of violence. The truth is that in that future there would be no place for me. Were this my child killed it would be me on trial, I WOULD have exacted eye for eye vengeance. My deity is a deity of war, and always has been. I am ashamed of this part of myself the part that would seek vengeance, so I do not allow myself to find any joy in it.
I do not know if that made any sense.
There is a culture war coming, things will get worse, much worse I fear.
Bob, I passed judgment of those of you who find it gleeful, who are truly happy with it, who wished violence and pain on another. Read the post before you defend yourself.
Charles
He didn’t just beat him up and call him faggot, see this would have been, ah he’s just being a bully and we can over look that. Boys will be boys right!!
Because that is alright in the world we live in.
He killed this kid, Now he will suffer for his actions. It’s a simple as that. Let it be a lesson to all the other bully’s who feel the need to beat up, call other kids names. It’s not alright, because one thing leads to another.
Trenton
Before we diverge too much from the subject, let me just say that self-loathing is so passé. Don’t hate yourself for being war-like or vengeful. But don’t make the mistake of lecturing others on virtue and empathy when you yourself admit that you struggle with these things.
And culture war will probably come to a head and there will certainly be more casualties, but already the next generation (with exception of a Mcirney’s here and there) are eons ahead of their parents in terms of acceptance. So don’t fear that either.
Oi…so the lesson here is don’t fuss with the splinter in another’s eye when you have a sequoia in your own…and, as for myself, if you wake up still drunk, don’t read incendiary discussions first thing. It leads to this madness.
Back on track: How many years should the little tyrant get? I’m thinking 12 is good…he’ll be in his mid-twenties, disenfranchised and angry, a perfect career criminal then. I do love our justice system.
Bob
Tara, dear, why is it wrong to be happy that justice is served? Why must we all cry our eyes out that this killer is being treated exactly as what he is — a cold-blooded murderer? Sorry, dear, but I am quite satisfied with the outcome. Deal with it.
Tara
Trenton, I do agree with the last part fully.
Bob, justice is subjective, unfortunately.
Brad Sanders
I absolutely don’t think he should be tried as an adult.
When you talk about cognitive and psychological development, a 14 year old is not an adult. I’m sure he knew that it was wrong to kill someone, but that doesn’t mean he was as capable of dealing with his sick emotions and the consequences of his actions the way an adult would. That doesn’t excuse his crime, but it doesn’t make it comparable to an identical one committed by an adult. Those who say his parents should be tried prove this point— he has not come to an age at which he can escape parental and societal influence through rational thought because he IS STILL A CHILD.
And anyway, what good comes about from locking him up for life? Do you think that next time other 14 year olds will stop and consider the case carefully before murdering someone? Do you think coming of age in a prison will actually help to rehabilitate this boy and make him grow into a better, kinder person?
Trenton
What good comes about from locking him up for life?
Not a hell of a lot comes of locking anyone up under any circumstances besides keeping them away from people who…ya know…don’t commit murder. It beats state sanctioned death (it’s cheaper, too) and so the problem lies not in locking him up. It lies in our lack of proper rehabilitation programs, but we’re gradually GRADUALLY getting better about that. Aside from the faith-based rehabilitation initiatives in certain states…God help us, indeed.
Do you think that next time other 14 year olds will stop and consider the case carefully before murdering someone?
If they are tempted to commit the same sort of crime, they won’t have to consider it carefully. A simple memory may suffice to deter them. But I know that imprisonment is a feeble deterrent for crimes such as this, and McInerney and his ilk won’t stop being hateful even were they threatened with death. No one here is suggesting that this is a solution to anything. It’s just a means of getting one more bad egg out of the way while the rest of us get on with our lives and work on eliminating the fundamental hatred that led him and others of his ilk to kill.
Do you think coming of age in a prison will actually help to rehabilitate this boy and make him grow into a better, kinder person?
No. It will probably break him. Or maybe he’ll find God…
I won’t pretend to have a better and equally feasible idea of what to do with him an the entire prison population…which is 1% of our adult population as of this year. But if you have one, that’s great. Share. If you don’t, but you want to be idealistic, that’s great, too. I’m quite the idealist about all human beings, even the most hateful of them…until they kill. They’re really not worth the trouble after that.
meatballperson
Mwahahahaha!! I think i’m gonna celebrate. Looks like little McBrandon is gonna get some butt action in prison so he finally knows what gay love is all about. Hey – that’s what he’s always wanted anyway, right? Only a very big coward too insecure about his own sexuality would feel the need to blow the brains of another child out.
I’ve said it before. A lot of us knew by the time we were 14 that killing another human being (another CHILD) is no no.
A lot of boys his age are stupid and immature. A lot of very homophobic too. But VERY FEW would go to the extent that this homophobic coward has. He does not deserve any of the protections of the juvenile justice system.
The people of CA has already spoken when they passed that proposition = teenagers don’t just go around blowing people’s brains off and then expect to get a slap on the wrist.
This isn’t only about bringing justice to Lawrence king and his family….it’s also about keeping an obvious danger away from society. He deserves to be locked up until he is at least 40. After he gets out, he can spend the rest of his life flipping burgers at Mcdonalds. That’s what i call justice. 😀
emb
I think KSU499 up at #1 nailed this perfectly: “he was boiled in a culture that convinced him that murder was the appropriate response to the perceived attention/attraction of an apparently gay person of the same gender.” What do we expect in a culture in which homosexuals are routinely denounced from pulpits and statehouses and the US Congress; where homosexuals are villified, mocked, belittled, and ridiculed in the radio and television “news” media; where mainstream media “equality” is achievable only by “safe”, funny, mincingly sexless gays (I’m looking at you, Carson).
The cultural message is mixed at best. No wonder a 14 year old did what he thought was OK.
I’m sorry, just because he’s 14 when he commits his vile act doesn’t mean he somehow is going to magically grow into a Better Person later. If a court has determined that he knew what he did was wrong, then try him as an adult and let him pay adult consequences for his very adult action. There are times, like this, when I really kinda wish I supported the death penalty.
Kristopher
“he has not come to an age at which he can escape parental and societal influence through rational thought” I have met a wide variety of adults. Very few have managed anything close to such an escape. So his age is not relevant here. If he felt like doing a (supposedly) adult act and had the means and skills, he should be both tried AND sentenced as an adult. He’s past bar mitzvah age, he’s an adult.
Bob
Yes, Tara, justice is subjective. In your world, it apparently includes joining hands and singing Kumbaya. In mine, it’s actually punishing people who commit pre-meditated murder.
Tara
Once again Bob. Do not presume to know my feelings. You do not have that right. You wish to feel I am weak, then do so, but do not presume to know me or my heart.
Mr C
I’m SORRY it’s really hard for me to have sympathy for Brandon. Unfortunately this is how he was raised to believe that GAY is negative.
And just as the laws are with ALL youth at a certain age. He should be tried as an adult.
REMEMBER Lawrence is gone………FOREVER!
He has to pay and his Parents should as well. Someone taught him this kind of hate and this is the very thing that separates and destroys and it needs to be STOPPED!
nikko
He committed the crime- now he must do time- or better yet, strap him to the chair and flick the switch-one less straight ,evil fucktard in the world. No more pity or excuses for garbage males like this anymore.
Bill Perdue
The death penalty is the right choice in the case of genocide, like the current genocidal campaign against muslims in Iraq by US and Brit military and political leaders, the killings by Serbian military and political leaders against of tens of thousands of muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina in the 90’s and the murders by the English Parachute Regiment of Irish civilians in Derry, occupied northern Ireland in 1972.
And it’s the right choice for hate murders. Calling for the death penalty in both cases, and ONLY in those cases, is correct and consistent. It allows GLBT communities here and internationally to demand the harshest and most effective punishment for murderers like the ayatollahs in Iraq and Iran who conduct murder and campaigns against us.
There is no particular difference between the crime of Brandon McInerney and the crimes of the Serbian mass murderers or the Iranian ayatollahs except for scale. They all deserve the same penalty and I am not swayed by the fact that inflicting the death penalty is painful. The death of Lawrence King was painful. The gay men and boys tossed of building and cliffs, dropped from cranes, and lashed, beaten and stoned to death in Iran suffered horribly as did tens of thousands of Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina. Their murderers should be tried and made to pay the price.
Charley
I disagree that the parents are at fault. The availability of guns, violent video games, violent media, peer pressure to be macho, masculine fucked up culture and lack of humanitarian education is at fault. Yes, he should be locked up in an adult prison for life so he won’t kill again. Kids brought up on a steady diet of violence can’t be rehabilitated. It’s too late by the time they reach 14.
Charley
Finding god in prison won’t help. It will just make him more of a delusional lunatic, hearing voices, wanting to go to heaven to shoot Jesus, like the crazy kid in Alabama reported on FOX last month.
Phoenix (the Short, Nelly one. Not the Pale one.)
I have posted my opinion on this subject before:
Brandon McInerney is not a child.
Brandon McInerney is not an adult.
The punishment should fit the crime. He and other violent criminals should never walk the street again. Criminals who do have some hope of rehabilitation should get the chance to improve themselves.
I personally think keeping someone locked up in prison for years/decades/entire life is a great deal crueler than euthanasia, which lethal injection is.
AJ
Tara first wrote:
“I passed judgment on ….”
Tara then wrote:
“Do not presume to know me ….”
CLEANTE
There are too many of this canting kind.
Still, the sincere are easy to distinguish;
And many splendid patterns may be found,
In our own time, before our very eyes
Look at Ariston, Periandre, Oronte,
Alcidamas, Clitandre, and Polydore;
No one denies their claim to true religion;
Yet they’re no braggadocios of virtue,
They do not make insufferable display,
And their religion’s human, tractable;
They are not always judging all our actions,
They’d think such judgment savoured of presumption;
And, leaving pride of words to other men,
‘Tis by their deeds alone they censure ours.
Evil appearances find little credit
With them; they even incline to think the best
Of others. No caballers, no intriguers,
They mind the business of their own right living.
They don’t attack a sinner tooth and nail,
For sin’s the only object of their hatred;
Nor are they over-zealous to attempt
Far more in heaven’s behalf than heaven would have ’em.
That is my kind of man, that is true living,
That is the pattern we should set ourselves.
Your fellow was not fashioned on this model;
You’re quite sincere in boasting of his zeal;
But you’re deceived, I think, by false pretences.
(Moliere: Tartuffe)
Funniest Thing
You know, the Newsweek story revealed that King returned at least a good part of the fire and would go out of his way to embarrass other kids, like McInerney, by telling people they were objects of King’s affection.
Here we have a straight bullying victim shooting a gay bully. I wonder if the situations were reversed if everyone with pitchforks would be marching in support of the gay bullying victim. I suspect you would. Which renders your indignity suspect.
Funniest Thing
Indignance
michael
I wonder what Lawrence would want us to do? Would Lawrence want him dead? Would he want him to spend his life in prison? Maybe we will never know the answer to that question but would it not be nice to consider it? After all it was Lawrence”s life he took.
If it was your life he took, and you were able to send a message from heaven, or hell, or where ever, what punishment would you give him?
John in CA
Given all of the media attention on this decision, would it surprise those of us who are “sick” and “outraged” by this decision to know that dozens of teenagers are tried as adults in Los Angeles County every year without narly a peep from bloggers, television, and newpapers? What’s the difference?
This defendant is a middle class white kid from conservative Ventura County. While most of the children on trial in L.A. County are African-American and Latino gang members. Too bad they don’t have a legion of armchair legal experts and lobbyists on their side. Sorry Jamal and Hector, but better luck next life. Maybe you’ll get reincarnated as a “Brad” or “Cody.” There’s plenty of hypocriscy to go around in this state. And a good portion of it is coming from the disingenuous defenders of this little monster.
Bill Perdue
Thanks, John in CA.
That needed to be said, even though it won’t shut up sanctimonious whiners like Tara. It’ll definitely offend racists and homophobes like Churchill-Y and Funniest Thing. They defend Brandon McInerney because he looks Euro-American and he murdered Lawrence King who doesn’t.
Funniest Thing
John in CA and Bill Perdue:
WTF do you know about why anyone else here does anything? Pushing the white guilt button is an immediate indicator that you are dishonest, stupid people.
We are talking about a specific case which involves a gay kid getting killed–people discussing this case do not need to establish their non-racist bona fides to jackasses like you.
Kristopher
Hey Funniest Thing,
Since when did embarrasing stuck-up straight boys warrant death? Or justify the killer? Doesn’t sound like a bully to me, sounds more like a gay youth sick of the indignities forced on him every day. Or mayhap he was telling the truth.
CHURCHILL-Y
They had to drag it to that level Funniest Thing.
That’s all they do when they have no where else to go and can’t make a reasonable counter argument, just watch #5 and how I choose to not indulge him in that stupidity.
Although I disagree with your premise of Lawrence being a “bully” and him being a “victim” I find it completely disgusting for some folks who post here to be wanting for this kid’s life to be destroyed completely without any shot for redemption simply because of their hatred for Whites.
Dilroy
Hey, once you drama queens are done talking about this make sure you check out the pics of the hot scantily clad model hunk in the article before this one.
Mr C
Once again,
Gentlemen and Gentlemans….LOL
We present the Opt-Ed from Churchill-Y and he says:I find it completely disgusting for some folks who post here to be wanting for this kid’s life to be destroyed completely without any shot for redemption simply because of their hatred for Whites.
WOW….So much for The Messiah! HYPOCRITE
Maybe you need to see a shrink FOR REAL.
Please show me who in these posts showed their hatred for WHITES?
Because the only one with HATE is you! No one on here posted anything of the sort and you need not repsond to #5 because we all know the RABIDNESS you produce.
BOTTOM LINE. If you think your Man enough to pull such an action then you deal with the consequences. SORRY BRANDON. Him and the Parents should be tried!
PERIOD!
And John in CA and Bill I agree. If he was a minority (i.e Black and or Latino,Asian) you damn well know what the deal would be.
Dilroy
“If he was a minority (i.e Black and or Latino,Asian) you damn well know what the deal would be.”
Yeah, you would be making excuses for his actions and diminishing the severity the way you do Isaiah Washington and Barack Obama because when it comes to viewing bias equally – as you allege you do – you are a hypocrite who exaggerates alleged racism and diminishes homophobic actions when they come from other blacks, particularly handsome black men.
Mr C
ONCE AGAIN.
WRONG IS WRONG! PERIOD
It’s not my fault you have issues with Blacks so you seek to find FAULT and think us Blacks or me excuse each other and go after everyone else, NO Bottom line Dilroy if Obama wouldn’t be this candidate you wouldn’t be going ON AND ON about this Bullshit and you know it. You would be singing Glory, Glory Hillaryuiah and wouldn’t care about what any BLACK person would say becsuse we wouldn’t be in your thought path which speaks volumes about yourself!
I don’t make excuses for anyone if FAGGOT,OR NIGGER is said whomever it’s coming from it’s wrong PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
Funniest Thing
Kristopher:
“Embarrassing stuck up straight boys” is using homophobia as a weapon just as surely as bullying a gay kid. It uses people’s fear of gays to injure somoene–full stop.
Furthermore, “stuck up” straight kids aren’t going to all be straight–terrified/self-hating gay kid or insecure straight kid is more likely in McInerney’s case.
And even if you think King’s response was just fine, where did it get him? You weren’t there to stop him from getting shot, the WORST outcome for HIM made LIKELIER by HIS OWN behavior.
I don’t expect King, individually, to know better–he was a screwed up kid in a bad situation. You can feel sorry for him, but he shouldn’t be turned into a victim-hero.
Churchill-y:
Perhaps “bully” is too strong a term. I still maintain that King’s reaction was a poor one that hurt people–most of all himself, as things turned out. Turning screwed-up people into posthumous saints is a lousy idea no matter who is doing it.
Trenton
Charley:
I think you go a bit far in suggesting that violent media and violent games are in any part to blame. Though I find all of that stuff generally apalling, I find it to be yet another symptom of the greater cause you listed: “lack of humanitarian education” which fosters indifference over empathy. And instead of ‘macho culture’, I’d say all around ‘masculinist culture’ which is still common the world over, whereby males are taught to objectify women and view feminine traits as inferior (or abhorrent if they are present in other men). So we don’t need to go taking away their joysticks and crappy, ultra-violent movies. We need to create a culture in which those things never even become appealing, but I’m afraid that’s a losing battle. such a culture never has existed (no culture, at least, that has not isolated itself completely) and likely never will exist.
And AJ:
Screw the Morning Goods. Bring us Morning Moliere every day, won’t you? Arts and Letters Daily has been sucking lately.
CHURCHILL-Y
@ Funniest Thing:
King’s reaction was the only way he knew how to defend himself against the constant jokes and harassment he had to endure by other kids for the way in which he identified himself. It’s called self defence they probably called him a faggit or girly boy or whatever and his reaction was to give it straight back at them by probably saying things like I know you like me or when are we going to make out again, do you get it. Since he probably wasn’t strong enough to physically deal with them, his approach was in a sorta of psychological way(I know there has to be a better term for this) turn the tables on those who repudiated him for his identity and self expression.
There are no saints in this lamentable episode as far as I’m concerned both kids were the victims of a society that condones homophobia a bigotry against GLBT under the guise of religiosity or the well being of society. Difference is that one of them is dead and the other by the looks of some posters here seems is on his way to a good old fashioned lynching of himself.
I just hope that all the level headed and good hearted people in our community prevail over the scum exemplified by the poster #59 and that we end up realizing that:
1-Yes this was a horrible crime and the kid needs to be punished, no excuses.
2-just like the victim this person is a minor who hasn’t even reached his 15th birthday and to try him as an adult is not only unjust but I crime onto itself since he clearly has no physical or mental development comparable to an adult.
3-this is a child and while vengeance might seem the appropriate punishment by those in our community who always seem to espouse the most lowly sentiments lets not follow them, instead lets advocate on behalf of an educated and compassionate punishment for this kid remember we are not dealing with an adult, this is a disturb child and there might still be hope for him as adult. One life wasted and destroyed by hatred is enough lets not espouse and harbour within ourselves the feelings that induced this child to commit this horrendous act. We are supposed to be above this type mentality.
Funniest Thing
Churchill-y:
Observing the nature of the behavior doesn’t mean I don’t understand the reason for the behavior. Running around as the snarky bitch-queen telling everyone so-and-so is gay is lousy behavior, period. I don’t believe gays need poster children for victimhood and, if they did, I don’t think King is a particularly good one.
I have no conclusive evidence of his orientation, but my suspicion is that the shooter might well have been every bit as gay as King.
Chadwick
Funniest Thing got there first, with more. Excellent.
So, on the margins:
I foundthis helpful background. Prenatal trauma, drug abuse, child abuse, car chases, martial arts and The Young Marines- context is a funny thing. Cultures can be more than just “homophobic”, you know.
John
Oh my god!!
Gays are the most conservative, narrow minded and fucked up!
I’m so glad I was born middle class….if I wasn’t-shit I’d hate to see what you all thought of me when I fucked up….
Argee
I think some of you have forgotten what it’s like to be 14. The idea that non mentally disabled 14 year olds don’t all have a sufficient grasp idea of murder and its consequences is a bit absurd. The judge made the correct decision. There’s no justification for giving a 14 year old a lesser sentence for premeditated murder than a 21 year old. Brandon knew exactly what he was doing, and now he’s going to be held accountable for that. He knew very well what the consequences would be and chose to do it anyway.
Jaroslaw
While we’ve beaten the child/vs adult thing to death, pardon the pun, I wonder why children are allowed to be so cruel to each other in school in the first place. As a skinny, ugly, bespectacled, unathletic child, I was tortured almost daily. I hated school. I’m not suggesting that children can be protected from every taunt or bruised shin or a few fist fights but going to school should not be torture.