Gays are the most conservative, narrow minded and fucked up!

I’m so glad I was born middle class….if I wasn’t-shit I’d hate to see what you all thought of me when I fucked up….

So, on the margins:
I foundthis helpful background. Prenatal trauma, drug abuse, child abuse, car chases, martial arts and The Young Marines- context is a funny thing. Cultures can be more than just “homophobic”, you know.

Observing the nature of the behavior doesn’t mean I don’t understand the reason for the behavior. Running around as the snarky bitch-queen telling everyone so-and-so is gay is lousy behavior, period. I don’t believe gays need poster children for victimhood and, if they did, I don’t think King is a particularly good one.

I have no conclusive evidence of his orientation, but my suspicion is that the shooter might well have been every bit as gay as King.

King’s reaction was the only way he knew how to defend himself against the constant jokes and harassment he had to endure by other kids for the way in which he identified himself. It’s called self defence they probably called him a faggit or girly boy or whatever and his reaction was to give it straight back at them by probably saying things like I know you like me or when are we going to make out again, do you get it. Since he probably wasn’t strong enough to physically deal with them, his approach was in a sorta of psychological way(I know there has to be a better term for this) turn the tables on those who repudiated him for his identity and self expression.
There are no saints in this lamentable episode as far as I’m concerned both kids were the victims of a society that condones homophobia a bigotry against GLBT under the guise of religiosity or the well being of society. Difference is that one of them is dead and the other by the looks of some posters here seems is on his way to a good old fashioned lynching of himself.

I just hope that all the level headed and good hearted people in our community prevail over the scum exemplified by the poster #59 and that we end up realizing that:

1-Yes this was a horrible crime and the kid needs to be punished, no excuses.

2-just like the victim this person is a minor who hasn’t even reached his 15th birthday and to try him as an adult is not only unjust but I crime onto itself since he clearly has no physical or mental development comparable to an adult.

3-this is a child and while vengeance might seem the appropriate punishment by those in our community who always seem to espouse the most lowly sentiments lets not follow them, instead lets advocate on behalf of an educated and compassionate punishment for this kid remember we are not dealing with an adult, this is a disturb child and there might still be hope for him as adult. One life wasted and destroyed by hatred is enough lets not espouse and harbour within ourselves the feelings that induced this child to commit this horrendous act. We are supposed to be above this type mentality.

I think you go a bit far in suggesting that violent media and violent games are in any part to blame. Though I find all of that stuff generally apalling, I find it to be yet another symptom of the greater cause you listed: “lack of humanitarian education” which fosters indifference over empathy. And instead of ‘macho culture’, I’d say all around ‘masculinist culture’ which is still common the world over, whereby males are taught to objectify women and view feminine traits as inferior (or abhorrent if they are present in other men). So we don’t need to go taking away their joysticks and crappy, ultra-violent movies. We need to create a culture in which those things never even become appealing, but I’m afraid that’s a losing battle. such a culture never has existed (no culture, at least, that has not isolated itself completely) and likely never will exist.

And AJ:

Screw the Morning Goods. Bring us Morning Moliere every day, won’t you? Arts and Letters Daily has been sucking lately.

“Embarrassing stuck up straight boys” is using homophobia as a weapon just as surely as bullying a gay kid. It uses people’s fear of gays to injure somoene–full stop.

Furthermore, “stuck up” straight kids aren’t going to all be straight–terrified/self-hating gay kid or insecure straight kid is more likely in McInerney’s case.

And even if you think King’s response was just fine, where did it get him? You weren’t there to stop him from getting shot, the WORST outcome for HIM made LIKELIER by HIS OWN behavior.

I don’t expect King, individually, to know better–he was a screwed up kid in a bad situation. You can feel sorry for him, but he shouldn’t be turned into a victim-hero.

Churchill-y:

Perhaps “bully” is too strong a term. I still maintain that King’s reaction was a poor one that hurt people–most of all himself, as things turned out. Turning screwed-up people into posthumous saints is a lousy idea no matter who is doing it.

WRONG IS WRONG! PERIOD

It’s not my fault you have issues with Blacks so you seek to find FAULT and think us Blacks or me excuse each other and go after everyone else, NO Bottom line Dilroy if Obama wouldn’t be this candidate you wouldn’t be going ON AND ON about this Bullshit and you know it. You would be singing Glory, Glory Hillaryuiah and wouldn’t care about what any BLACK person would say becsuse we wouldn’t be in your thought path which speaks volumes about yourself!

I don’t make excuses for anyone if FAGGOT,OR NIGGER is said whomever it’s coming from it’s wrong PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

Yeah, you would be making excuses for his actions and diminishing the severity the way you do Isaiah Washington and Barack Obama because when it comes to viewing bias equally – as you allege you do – you are a hypocrite who exaggerates alleged racism and diminishes homophobic actions when they come from other blacks, particularly handsome black men.

Gentlemen and Gentlemans….LOL

We present the Opt-Ed from Churchill-Y and he says:I find it completely disgusting for some folks who post here to be wanting for this kid’s life to be destroyed completely without any shot for redemption simply because of their hatred for Whites.

WOW….So much for The Messiah! HYPOCRITE
Maybe you need to see a shrink FOR REAL.
Please show me who in these posts showed their hatred for WHITES?
Because the only one with HATE is you! No one on here posted anything of the sort and you need not repsond to #5 because we all know the RABIDNESS you produce.

BOTTOM LINE. If you think your Man enough to pull such an action then you deal with the consequences. SORRY BRANDON. Him and the Parents should be tried!

PERIOD!

And John in CA and Bill I agree. If he was a minority (i.e Black and or Latino,Asian) you damn well know what the deal would be.

Since when did embarrasing stuck-up straight boys warrant death? Or justify the killer? Doesn’t sound like a bully to me, sounds more like a gay youth sick of the indignities forced on him every day. Or mayhap he was telling the truth.

WTF do you know about why anyone else here does anything? Pushing the white guilt button is an immediate indicator that you are dishonest, stupid people.

We are talking about a specific case which involves a gay kid getting killed–people discussing this case do not need to establish their non-racist bona fides to jackasses like you.

That needed to be said, even though it won’t shut up sanctimonious whiners like Tara. It’ll definitely offend racists and homophobes like Churchill-Y and Funniest Thing. They defend Brandon McInerney because he looks Euro-American and he murdered Lawrence King who doesn’t.

This defendant is a middle class white kid from conservative Ventura County. While most of the children on trial in L.A. County are African-American and Latino gang members. Too bad they don’t have a legion of armchair legal experts and lobbyists on their side. Sorry Jamal and Hector, but better luck next life. Maybe you’ll get reincarnated as a “Brad” or “Cody.” There’s plenty of hypocriscy to go around in this state. And a good portion of it is coming from the disingenuous defenders of this little monster.

Here we have a straight bullying victim shooting a gay bully. I wonder if the situations were reversed if everyone with pitchforks would be marching in support of the gay bullying victim. I suspect you would. Which renders your indignity suspect.

“I passed judgment on ….”

Tara then wrote:

“Do not presume to know me ….”

CLEANTE

There are too many of this canting kind.
Still, the sincere are easy to distinguish;
And many splendid patterns may be found,
In our own time, before our very eyes
Look at Ariston, Periandre, Oronte,
Alcidamas, Clitandre, and Polydore;
No one denies their claim to true religion;
Yet they’re no braggadocios of virtue,
They do not make insufferable display,
And their religion’s human, tractable;
They are not always judging all our actions,
They’d think such judgment savoured of presumption;
And, leaving pride of words to other men,
‘Tis by their deeds alone they censure ours.
Evil appearances find little credit
With them; they even incline to think the best
Of others. No caballers, no intriguers,
They mind the business of their own right living.
They don’t attack a sinner tooth and nail,
For sin’s the only object of their hatred;
Nor are they over-zealous to attempt
Far more in heaven’s behalf than heaven would have ‘em.
That is my kind of man, that is true living,
That is the pattern we should set ourselves.
Your fellow was not fashioned on this model;
You’re quite sincere in boasting of his zeal;
But you’re deceived, I think, by false pretences.

(Moliere: Tartuffe)

Brandon McInerney is not a child.

Brandon McInerney is not an adult.

The punishment should fit the crime. He and other violent criminals should never walk the street again. Criminals who do have some hope of rehabilitation should get the chance to improve themselves.

I personally think keeping someone locked up in prison for years/decades/entire life is a great deal crueler than euthanasia, which lethal injection is.

And it’s the right choice for hate murders. Calling for the death penalty in both cases, and ONLY in those cases, is correct and consistent. It allows GLBT communities here and internationally to demand the harshest and most effective punishment for murderers like the ayatollahs in Iraq and Iran who conduct murder and campaigns against us.

There is no particular difference between the crime of Brandon McInerney and the crimes of the Serbian mass murderers or the Iranian ayatollahs except for scale. They all deserve the same penalty and I am not swayed by the fact that inflicting the death penalty is painful. The death of Lawrence King was painful. The gay men and boys tossed of building and cliffs, dropped from cranes, and lashed, beaten and stoned to death in Iran suffered horribly as did tens of thousands of Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina. Their murderers should be tried and made to pay the price.

And just as the laws are with ALL youth at a certain age. He should be tried as an adult.

REMEMBER Lawrence is gone………FOREVER!

He has to pay and his Parents should as well. Someone taught him this kind of hate and this is the very thing that separates and destroys and it needs to be STOPPED!

The cultural message is mixed at best. No wonder a 14 year old did what he thought was OK.

I’m sorry, just because he’s 14 when he commits his vile act doesn’t mean he somehow is going to magically grow into a Better Person later. If a court has determined that he knew what he did was wrong, then try him as an adult and let him pay adult consequences for his very adult action. There are times, like this, when I really kinda wish I supported the death penalty.

I’ve said it before. A lot of us knew by the time we were 14 that killing another human being (another CHILD) is no no.

A lot of boys his age are stupid and immature. A lot of very homophobic too. But VERY FEW would go to the extent that this homophobic coward has. He does not deserve any of the protections of the juvenile justice system.

The people of CA has already spoken when they passed that proposition = teenagers don’t just go around blowing people’s brains off and then expect to get a slap on the wrist.

This isn’t only about bringing justice to Lawrence king and his family….it’s also about keeping an obvious danger away from society. He deserves to be locked up until he is at least 40. After he gets out, he can spend the rest of his life flipping burgers at Mcdonalds. That’s what i call justice. :D

Not a hell of a lot comes of locking anyone up under any circumstances besides keeping them away from people who…ya know…don’t commit murder. It beats state sanctioned death (it’s cheaper, too) and so the problem lies not in locking him up. It lies in our lack of proper rehabilitation programs, but we’re gradually GRADUALLY getting better about that. Aside from the faith-based rehabilitation initiatives in certain states…God help us, indeed.

Do you think that next time other 14 year olds will stop and consider the case carefully before murdering someone?

If they are tempted to commit the same sort of crime, they won’t have to consider it carefully. A simple memory may suffice to deter them. But I know that imprisonment is a feeble deterrent for crimes such as this, and McInerney and his ilk won’t stop being hateful even were they threatened with death. No one here is suggesting that this is a solution to anything. It’s just a means of getting one more bad egg out of the way while the rest of us get on with our lives and work on eliminating the fundamental hatred that led him and others of his ilk to kill.

Do you think coming of age in a prison will actually help to rehabilitate this boy and make him grow into a better, kinder person?

No. It will probably break him. Or maybe he’ll find God…

I won’t pretend to have a better and equally feasible idea of what to do with him an the entire prison population…which is 1% of our adult population as of this year. But if you have one, that’s great. Share. If you don’t, but you want to be idealistic, that’s great, too. I’m quite the idealist about all human beings, even the most hateful of them…until they kill. They’re really not worth the trouble after that.

When you talk about cognitive and psychological development, a 14 year old is not an adult. I’m sure he knew that it was wrong to kill someone, but that doesn’t mean he was as capable of dealing with his sick emotions and the consequences of his actions the way an adult would. That doesn’t excuse his crime, but it doesn’t make it comparable to an identical one committed by an adult. Those who say his parents should be tried prove this point— he has not come to an age at which he can escape parental and societal influence through rational thought because he IS STILL A CHILD.

And anyway, what good comes about from locking him up for life? Do you think that next time other 14 year olds will stop and consider the case carefully before murdering someone? Do you think coming of age in a prison will actually help to rehabilitate this boy and make him grow into a better, kinder person?

Bob, justice is subjective, unfortunately.

And culture war will probably come to a head and there will certainly be more casualties, but already the next generation (with exception of a Mcirney’s here and there) are eons ahead of their parents in terms of acceptance. So don’t fear that either.

Oi…so the lesson here is don’t fuss with the splinter in another’s eye when you have a sequoia in your own…and, as for myself, if you wake up still drunk, don’t read incendiary discussions first thing. It leads to this madness.

Back on track: How many years should the little tyrant get? I’m thinking 12 is good…he’ll be in his mid-twenties, disenfranchised and angry, a perfect career criminal then. I do love our justice system.

He killed this kid, Now he will suffer for his actions. It’s a simple as that. Let it be a lesson to all the other bully’s who feel the need to beat up, call other kids names. It’s not alright, because one thing leads to another.

I do not know if that made any sense.

There is a culture war coming, things will get worse, much worse I fear.

Bob, I passed judgment of those of you who find it gleeful, who are truly happy with it, who wished violence and pain on another. Read the post before you defend yourself.

Trala…I retract one iota of my former statement. You do have a measure of a clue. But the rest stands.

This isn’t pure schadenfreude. That’s a German phrase you should know. The one above was: ‘I am justly served’ sounds always as ‘I am avenged.’ So reread what I said and you will see that I am not reveling. And I truly do not hate McIrney. I certainly don’t hate you. My reaction was based on your insinuation that we are not in the midst of a battle and that our pity should extend to the perpetrator as much as the victims. It’s true that in a sense McIrney was a victim of his upbringing by backwater hegemons…but he made the ultimate decision. So fuck him.

And on that note, I will say that some of the posts above were less than savory. I may have wrongly judged the intent of your first post, not realizing that it was most directed toward those who posed sadistic fantasies about the fate of McIrney. I saw only the suggestion that this child/adult was deserving of anything less than the full ruin of his actions. He does, and he’s going to get it, thank goodness.

In days past, the corpses of vermin and executed men hung in public places as deterrents to those who would transgress. Further back, enemies of our tribes were impaled for public display. We haven’t come so far. This disgust at the act, this reveling in the fall of the enemies of our tribe isn’t a pretty part of human nature…but it is natural. I for one won’t be gleefully dwelling on thoughts of McIrney’s torments because I do think that it’s morbid and uncivil to take pleasure in the pain of others, and a waste of time and energy to boot. But I am glad that ‘justice’ (whatever that may mean) is being served. And I will excuse this glee in others, because, as I said, I find it a natural reaction, though one I would like to see overcome through empathy. It certainly won’t be overcome through civilizaion.

It’s all too kind of you to extend such pity to McIrney and his kin. And I think that we are in fact of the same mind in terms of the purpose of justice. But stop sermonizing about the joyless mirth of schadenfreude; it’s instinctual and it’s not going away any time soon. I’m sure you felt it necessary to take a scolding tone because you realized that a softer, wiser mode of putting it would have appeared impotent. Indeed, it would have. So in the future just don’t bother. You have a keen mind and an empathetic heart. It would be a pity to waste that on the wrong sort of pity. Save it for the coup de grâce. Plowshares to swords, darling.