It is not MacDonald-Denis’ responsibility to teach us the ways of people of color within LGBQTSGLTSIA communities. It is us up to us to educate ourselves, and have hard conversations with one another. Today, I see more images of lesbian and bisexual women of color on television — yet, I remember when the only show with a lesbian of color was cancelled (Dark Angel). There are not prominent people of color shown in mainstream media, let alone LGBTQSGLTSIA people of color. Unless you count the ones who get murdered or the ones who are perpetrators. MacDonald-Denis is right, in that, White privilege abounds and it is us up to us white folks who are queer, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, pick an identity that resonates with your sexual orientation or gender identity, to not only be mindful of our privilege, but be responsible for the stories we don’t know, the histories we don’t know. And, then to ACT.

This means hard conversations, some of which have been started here. It also means being uncomfortable — when was the last time you had a meaningful conversation about race, ethnicity, racism, and intersections of identity? What did you learn about yourself? The other folks involved? What did you want to ask but didn’t because you were afraid? What if more people considered that the reality is oppression — ableism, ageism, racism, sexism, heterosexism, transphobia, anti-religious, etc. — exists, and they exist and look differently to people, that no one of these systems is more or less oppressive, but that the consequences range from invisibility to exploitation to harassment, to violence and murder and suicide? How would this conversation be different?

It is not the job or responsibility of people of color to teach us white folk about their lives — it is not our job as same gender loving, Two Spirit, queer, transgender, bisexual, lesbian and/or gay folk to teach heterosexual people about our lives. Part of being an ally rests in doing much of that work ourselves, rather than asking each other and ourselves to represent the totality of communities we are a part of.

The people in this world will always have differences and NO ONE will change that. From the beginning of written history there has always been leaders (through whatever means they needed)and followers (for whatever reasons).

Color, height, weight,gender, sexuality, race, and religion will always be, for some, a reason to be a bigot/hater.

So until we can accept others as equals and treat each other as equals ( which will NEVER happen) we will always have something to bitch about.

1) I hate that this turned into a black/white thing. I do wish that we had more Latino and Asian/Pacific Islander input on ths issue. I can’t link to the HRC study right now, but it did show that of all racial groups blacks feel the most accepted within the LGBT community and it’s actually Asian/PI LGBT’s that feel the lewast acceptance and bear the largest brunt of racism in the gay community.

The fact that this post nor any of the comments even discusses Asian Pacific Islanders indicates the “privilege” (in a way) that black folks have as regards this particular (granted the writer is Latino).

I also love your point about how laws can not erase this issue. Many do not understand that concept. That even if you change laws, laws do not change mindsets. I often say of some that what they want is acceptance for them being gay, but the laws do no provide acceptance. Acceptance is a deeper concept that goes into all the norms of society.

That’s why when forced to choose between their race and sexual orientation some will choose race over sexual orientation in terms of identitification. It is because of all the other things that are outside of legal remedies and issues. Ultimately, as I say above, if you are given a choose between the thing you know (in most people’s cases the family and friends they have known out of their lives who are straight) versus an equally hostile greater white gay community, it is not a surprise that many will go with the thing they know.

To me, the inability to even “get” why this is important, is another sign of how privilege works. The “Why shouldn’t you want to hang out with me although I have told you through actions that I am not interested in your imput” way of thinking. We are suppose to give that support anyway despite the hostility. The issue is why? Why should we give it? Saying that legally it will help us is besides the point because it is not sufficient alone for many to face more hostility than they already live with.

Raina Weather, I think this is the one that pisses me off the most.

“Unlike the way I portrayed gay#s, I think I identify as gay first, and white second. I would not see employment, hate crimes, or marriage rights, as a means to bring me back into the white fold. I will always feel alienated from my family and co-workers, and I won’t dare to speculate how long residual issues of otherness will persist once we are granted equal rights. I think it’s silly that some people seem to think that a few laws are going to undo hundreds of years of ingrained heteronormalism.”

Hmmmmm…we’re closer than you think.

Remember, “white” is the default of all that is right and good and normal in this society, the “default’ if you will. Therefore you do have the luxury of putting gay first.

Actually (you may be surprised by this)I don’t put either one first nor do I think I can afford to, as a rule. See, we feel almost exactly the same but….if it’s silly to think that a few laws are going to undo hundreds of years of ingrained heteronormalism, then what makes you think that a few laws are going to undo hundreds of years of ingrained “whitenormalism.”

See, you GET IT but…

Part of the mistaken notion here, I think is that you also lose “white privilege” or “male privilege” when you lose heterosexist privilege and that’s not the way works. Loss of privilege in one area doen’t mean the loss of privilege in all areas (says the somewhat recovering but still stereotypical gay male misogynist).

2) I didn’t and would never say don’t fight Prop 8. I’m simply looking at one argument for not fighting what will be a very expensive battle at this time. As opposed to 2012, when the economy is (hopefully) better.

3) Depends on what you define as “racism.” Were you refused promotions, were you shunned from the social set on the job, was it a difficult working enviroment, etc. If not, then I would say that’s racial prejudice but noe a very necessary component of power that I would think of as racism.

Besides, black women ARE NOT the easiest people to work for and.or with, let me tell you.

That has actually happened to me in a heterosexist way (with nearly all black workfrces) and once in a isolated case of racism.

Actually, I do think that you vaguely “get it.”

@Julien:

“A person of color who is ashamed of the fact that he’s attracted to white guys and has little to NO luck getting them into bed…”

Epic fail, I have NEVER had this problem.

After all, my white privledge gave me the chance to go to school and learn things, along with giving me affordable health insurance, a mansion, polo lessons and a pony. Should I ever come across you, in your hovel, I’ll remember to be polite to the noble savages you call family, and direct you to the local charity. If they’re not already full of chinamen, negroes and indians and their rampant babies (I know, I know. It’s such a problem, but with their infantile minds, all they can do is have sexual relations when the urge strikes. It’s tragic, really). I’m sorry life has dealt you such a heavy blow to bear, but cheer up! Lead a good life and the Good Lord will reward you after your dead. or, as your religion has it, you’ll actually get to be born into a caste. Until then, I say, “Good day, sir!”

I think that’s the one I hate the most. I’m a lesbian and a virgin and (outside of my family and close friends) EVERYONE thinks that I have had sex with every girl I have ever dated and generally every lesbian I have ever known. Also, once I tell a guy in whom I’m not interested that I’m a lesbian, he usually thinks that an invitation to discuss sex with him.

Well, Kev did, but in a broad sweeping manner that didn’t really address how things should be done, but more an uneducated critque of how things are being done now.

So, unspecified racism exists and no white person can relate no matter what their background or social status, and any attempts to do so are simply futile because we just won’t get it because we’re white.

If we’re gonna go down that route, just about your entire argument is a bad undergraduate thesis cliche.

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

Seriously, a lot of these “criticisms” are cliches.

My god, I basically retyped some of the things you wrote verbatim. And where I extrapolated beyond that, I acknowledged it as such. I even SAID I was putting words in your mouth. If you disagree with it, just say so. I’m not bullshitting you. Since you voluntarily comment on this site I thought you were interested in a dialogue.

The only time I see people of color bitch about how unfair life is for htem in the LGBT community; it’s usually for the following reasons:

1) A person of color who is ashamed of the fact that he’s attracted to white guys and has little to NO luck getting them into bed…

2) see above.

If you’re so proud of your race then learn to love your own kind and give two shits about what white fags think.

2) Prop 8. The people spending money on Prop 8 are not tied to the goverment. Unless, HRC and the Mormon Church are shadow organizations, intent on wasting our tax dollars. Sacramento has already wasted time and money on this, so we might as well finish the fight. Furthermore, where is you’re price tag/cut off point where you feel we should say, “So far, there’s nothing equal to marriage, but we’ve already spent ALOT of money fighting this, so I’m totally ok with putting my family in jeopardy and being a second class citizen.”

3) It wasn’t my “white priveledge” or my inherent racism that informed me that it was odd to be sitting with those girls. It was those girls themselves that informed me. and that’s not counting the many jobs I’ve had where I was one of a few white people and experienced a lot of distrust and hostility because I didn’t fit in. I dont’ consider that to be fair play, and is just as bad and shitty as the things I’ve heard others go through. But, oh, wait, it’s not racist when a black person does it, right?

I wasn’t talking about male privilege, I was wondering aloud, and not necessarily at anyone specific, if Lesbians feel a similar expectation to make a choice between their sex/gender and their sexuality? Are there issues facing lesbians that they think are more important than, DADT, DOMA, UAFA, etc. If so, what are they?

Your characterization of blacks as potentially homophobic, and whites as “clearly” racially hostile…is not what I would consider an objective opinion. Of course, you have every right to feel the way you do, because your experiences may have lead you to that conclusion. But my experiences are different, and I don’t think I could make that statement, or it’s inverse. But I am trying to understand your perspective, so let me put some words in your mouth gay#s. You identify more as black than gay? You face heterosexism from both black and white straight people, as well as racism from gay and straight white people. These conditions are why you feel you’re in a position to choose between your race and your sexuality?

I don’t think white gays are trying to use gays of color to suit their needs. That’s a heavy and insidious accusation which I don’t believe you can support. Mostly, because even though the agenda of groups like HRC don’t take into consideration a broad range of views, the causes they espouse would help gays of all colors. I don’t think you really have a choice between two harms when you invariably stand to benefit in some ways, but admittedly not all. And I’d be interested in hearing if you disagree with that and why.

“But might it be that some white gays want to reassert what privilege they can because of the loss of privilege when they come out?”

Don’t you think that’s a messed up and convoluted way to characterize gay white people’s want for equal legal rights? I think white gays, like all gays, want legal protections so they can feel secure. Unlike the way I portrayed gay#s, I think I identify as gay first, and white second. I would not see employment, hate crimes, or marriage rights, as a means to bring me back into the white fold. I will always feel alienated from my family and co-workers, and I won’t dare to speculate how long residual issues of otherness will persist once we are granted equal rights. I think it’s silly that some people seem to think that a few laws are going to undo hundreds of years of ingrained heteronormalism.

SHOCKER!

I found that the most effective way to become better aware of my white privilege was to become better acquainted with the suffering of people of color. Here are two excellent books that helped me tremendously:

>> The Autobiography of Malcolm X

and

>> Kaffir Boy

For more about dealing with racism in the LGBT rights movement, check out this article:

http://www.tolerance.org/image.....Letter.pdf