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The Six Pack

LISTEN: Real World Castmate So Sick Of Bi-Phobia He Can Barely Hook Up With Tons Of Random Dudes

The Six Pack is a weekly radio show hosted by DJ Ben Harvey and comedian Dave Rubin. Distributed online and on SiriusXM, the show gives you a weekly dose of hot topics, celebrity guests, and brand new music, all packaged in six convenient parts. Listen to The Six Pack Live on SiriusXM OutQ channel 108 on Saturdays from 1 to 3pm. Download the podcast at SixPackage.com.

 

Episode 79: Puerto Rican Pool Boy

LISTEN:

 

On this episode, The Six Pack interviews Frank Sweeney from The Real World: San Diego, who opens up about what it’s like to be openly bi in 2011. “It’s funny that it’s still it’s a hot topic, even to this day,” Sweeney (at right, in headband) tells hosts Dave Rubin and Ben Harvey. “I think in the gay community it’s kind of looked down upon to say you’re bi because people think it’s a transitional thing or you’re lying to yourself… I did hook up with a lot of guys. Call it a transition, call it whatever you want, but right now I’m not going to force myself into any hole right now.”

We’re sure there are many holes Sweeney would be more than welcome in.

 

Dave Rubin is a stand-up comedian, TV personality and blogger. Ben Harvey is a radio DJ, TV personality and event producer responsible for the monthly Gumbo party in New York City. E-mail the show at saywhat@sixpackage.com.

By:           Dan Avery
On:           Oct 22, 2011
Tagged: , , , , , , , ,
  • 120 Comments
    • jason
      jason

      Women – and liberals in general – fear male bisexuality for several reasons:

      a) Women don’t like the idea of competing with men for the affections of men. They have a hard enough time competing with women.

      b) Male bisexuality tends to be genuine – in line with the genuine nature of the male erectile response – whereas female bisexuality is fraught with fakeness. A male bisexual thus exposes the fake nature of much of female sexuality. It shames women into accepting their essential fakeness.

      c) Male bisexuals are not as easily controlled as are female bisexuals. A male bisexual is not doing it to please anybody but himself and his partner. A female bisexual will often have a male on hand whom she is abiding by. She is often doing it for him and not just herself and her female partner.

      Oct 22, 2011 at 7:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Gay men fear male bisexuals because male bisexuals expose the essential fakeness of gay men.

      Oct 22, 2011 at 7:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tyler
      Tyler

      @jason misogynist and homophobic…look at you.

      Oct 22, 2011 at 7:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anon
      anon

      In my view, people are (unfortunately) dismissive of bisexuality because it threatenes their own sexual identities.

      I think people have gotten so into the habit of having GAY as one camp and SRAIGHT at the other, and they’ve taken comfort in burying themselves in their respective bunkers and sneering at eachother over the no mans land. There is also the idea of “you are what you do.” If you shag men or are currently dating a man, you are obviously a gay man or a straight woman. if you shag or are currently dating a woman, you are a straight man or a gay woman. Nice and simple, black and white, easy to digest. You keep your side, we’ll keep ours, don’t worry about sending christmas cards.

      Ofcourse, that’s never really been true, and people of all sexual expressions and orientations have been mingling, well, for as long as people have been about.
      People are threatened by the idea that to some people, your sexuality doesn’t matter, because the people who are so venement about bisexuality being invalid or fake are those who are so invested in their own sexuality as a massive identity anchor. They somehow think that bisexuals are not to be trusted because they want to visit both camps instead of setting up home in one, and they are obviously far to familiar with the other side to avoid fraternizing with the enemy.

      Very, very sad.

      Oct 22, 2011 at 8:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • soakman
      soakman

      @Jason

      Point 2 is half right. Whereas men tend to have either erectile reactions to men OR women, bisexual men have reactions to both. This is a visual signal that they are aroused and therefore not ‘faking.’ However, I have no idea where you came up with the idea of bi women ‘faking.’

      Women’s sexuality is a LOT more fluid and based on chemical reaction than men’s tend to be. True, it’s harder to tell whether or not women are physically aroused in the strictly ‘bisexual’ sense, but that’s because women when monitored via a plethysmograph (a device kind of like a tampon that measures blood flow to the genitals) blood flow increases when show depictions of nearly any kind of sexually graphic stimulus. In fact, in one study women were generally equally aroused by watching animals mate as they were watching men, women, or any combination of the two.

      Oct 22, 2011 at 8:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • n900mixalot
      n900mixalot

      People seem to be over-thinking this.

      For people with a problem with bisexuality, it represents the inability to settle down. Bi folks are great for those looking for a quick fling, but some of us have made the mistake of developing crushes or falling head over heels for someone who will never be completely happy with the partner they have.

      Bi guys are never satisfied with one sex, and ya just can’t compete with that. They’ll either act on it, or the gay partner will always feel inadequate because they don’t have the lady/man parts that the bi partner wants.

      Oct 22, 2011 at 8:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bisexual and out 20+ years
      bisexual and out 20+ years

      n900mixalot,
      That is bunk.
      I have been with my current (female) spouse for years and have not strayed.
      Yes it would be nice to be with a man, but not at the cost of my relationship. We are no diferant than anyone else who stays faithful for love and sees someone they find atractive. Yes it might rise a thought or two, but those thoughts are easily dismissed when I think of my wife and I quikly forget the guy and move on.
      Bisexuals are just as capable of staying faithful to thier lover as anyone else is.
      The ‘bisexuals are never satisfied’ line needs to be thrown in the trash bin.

      Just because you got hurt by a bisexual does not mean we all suck. The first person to break my heart was a gay male. Because I had the audacity to admit I was bisexual. He called me all sorts of hateful things because I would even think of haveing sex with a woman. Should I think all gay men are narow minded women haters that are so insecure that the meer thought of hetero sex makes them violently abusive?
      Yes I think about women sexualy. I am bisexual. I refuse to hate myself because I am sexualy and romanticaly attracted to both sexs. I refuse to have a gay man tell me that my sexuality is some how wrong and decieteful when it was not too long ago that similar acusations were made about gay people.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 12:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • perdeep
      perdeep

      Why is the Real World still considered relevant? They basically just throw a bunch of damaged people in a room and provide them with limitless alcohol, and then tell them to say things that will provoke others into a fight. It’s sick, and it tends to make all the straights, gays, bis, and anything in between look shallow and unloveable. Whatever very valid and real trauma bisexuals (or racial minorities or transgendered people or disabled person whatever “token”ness the cast member is chosen for) experience in real life, this horrible exploitation shit show is not a good way of shedding light on it.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 1:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      @bisexual and out 20+ years: I don’t think he said that that was true. He says what bisexuality represents *to people who have a problem with it*,which is pretty much exactly what they do think. Tell me you haven’t heard the “bisexuals are never satisfied” line before?

      Oct 23, 2011 at 1:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      soakman,

      Your conclusions are flawed in that they are based on voyeurism. Voyeurism is a flawed methodology on which to draw conclusions about human sexuality. In a culture such as America’s, which is steeped in porn, it is easy to fall into this trap. It’s a trap which leads to many, many flawed studies on human sexuality.

      What you need to understand is something very basic: women are sellers, not buyers. A seller advertises. This is necessary in order to achieve a sale. Inherent within this selling paradigm are the notions of exaggeration or embellishment. In order to out-compete her competitors, a woman needs to say and do something that will attract a male suitor. Even if it is false, she will say or do it.

      Unfortunately, this includes pandering to an assortment of fetishes, including the girl-girl one, that many straight-identifying men have.

      I actually knew a woman who would go out with her straight boyfriend to mixed gay/lesbian clubs and then separate from him once inside. She would go about trying to pick up women with the express purpose of recruiting her into a threesome arrangement with that perv of a boyfriend of hers. One such victim of this malignant woman’s behavior was a friend of mine who was traumatized by the event.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 7:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      It’s also bizarre that gay men seem to get along better with bisexual women – even fake ones – than bisexual men. I mean, you never hear gay men being cynical towards female bisexuality. It’s only male bisexuality that they have a problem with.

      Interesting, very interesting. It suggests to me what I’ve thought for a while now, and that is that gay male culture is dysfunctional and fake.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 8:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert in NYC
      Robert in NYC

      And Jason, don’t forget all those fake straights who are closeted gay men in the GOP who vote against our rights over and over. As for the dysfunctional factor, hardly the domain of gay men. Just look at your party, be it the GOP, Civil Libertarians or Tea Party scumbags, all republicans with their array of dysfunctional candidates of whom the majority think we should all be marginalized and denied basic human rights.

      Even more dysfunctional are straight males who get off watching two women get it on and on the other hand, find male on male sex revolting. That’s beyond fucked up or dysfunctional.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 8:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      @Tyler: shut up, misandrist and hypocritical anti-gay bustard! Put your “LGBT-solidarity@ in your asshole.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 8:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Patsy
      Patsy

      as a bisexual girl reading the first post by Jason…. wow. just wow. always nice to start your day at a lgbt friendly website reading posts like this. how about I nominate you for Douche of the Week.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 8:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      @Patsy: how about you go to asshole? This fake solidarity “LGBT” extremely dangerous towards gay and bisexual guys. Homophobes together with “LGBT-activists” imposes double standards on bisexuality. Many guys suppress their own homoeroticism still. That’s why we have homophobia.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 8:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Absolutely Fabulous
      Absolutely Fabulous

      As a new member and bisexual girl reading the first post by Jason…. wow. Just wow. Always nice to start your roadtrip at a lgbt friendly website reading posts like this. How about I nominate you for a category I just discovered; Douche of the Week.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 8:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @anon: said…

      “In my view, people are (unfortunately) dismissive of bisexuality because it threatenes their own sexual identities.”
      _______________________

      I have no problem with bisexuality. HOWEVER, just like when NOM refuses to acknowledge facts it kills their whole argument….the bisexual community needs to admit the fact that a HUGE number of gay men claim to be bisexual as part of the coming out process.

      Since they refuse to acknowledge something that every gay man out there has seen to be true, it makes it look like they are trying to hide or ignore the truth and that there is something wrong with their argument.

      When I was 25 I knew 10 bisexuals. A few years later I know 1. I believe he is absolutely bisexual, but he would also NEVER try to claim that many gays use that label as a stepping stone.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 9:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anouther transgirl
      Anouther transgirl

      I have seen many ‘gay’ guys sudenly become ‘bisexual’ at 2 am when all the men are taken and nothing but females are sexually available.
      So the bisexual as a steping stone to gay is bunk.
      I have seen the ‘I am gay’ line ussed to great effect by bisexual men to get into a womans panties.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 9:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike in Asheville
      Mike in Asheville

      @Mark: @Mark: Come out, come out, closet Jason — forget to take your schizophrenia meds again?

      Mark/Jason, you are so full of shit, transferring your fucked up misogynist self-loathing the-other-gays-stigmatize-me-I’m-a-good-gay self as how all other ought to be.

      Some girls enjoy themselves with other girls, some with guys, some with both. Some boys enjoy themselves with other boys, some with girls, some with both. What is so fucking hard to figure out that each and every one has their own personal — and legitimate — desires and the God-given right to pursue that happiness?

      Oct 23, 2011 at 9:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @Anouther transgirl: said…

      So the bisexual as a steping stone to gay is bunk.

      __________________________________

      No, actually you are a liar. And this is why there is even an issue here. When many of us have either personally done this or had our friends do it and say it. THEN somebody like you comes along and says that there is no such thing as something we have either personally experienced or seen. It just makes us ignore everything else you say, because you have already started out in a lie.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 10:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lil
      Lil

      I’ve noticed that male bisexuality is a lot more accepted in Europe than US.
      in US, a gay experience will automatically make a man gay…gay behavior is just so disgusting that only a certain amount of people (ONLY gays) like it…you’ve got to be 100% gay in order to like gay sex…but for women, it’s a different story!!!

      Oct 23, 2011 at 10:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • christopher di spirito
      christopher di spirito

      Frank Sweeney is fucking hot! I don’t care if he’s gay, bi or straight, I would definitely hit it in a New York minute.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 10:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      @Mike in Asheville: hallo, misandrist Jeffree-Mike-etc=) (ordinary pro-radical feminist stupid prostitute) Do you enjoy double standards on bisexuality and anti-gay-male policy of “LGBT” still?

      Oct 23, 2011 at 10:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anouther transgirl
      Anouther transgirl

      I am just reporting on what I see.

      That a number of gay men will sleep with women when there are no men available is just a fact of life. Any port in a storm.

      And I have seen gay as a steping stone to bi also.

      Can we also talk about the gay people who were at one time bisexual that sudenly become militant gay, then when they break up with thier gay lover are sudenly bisexual again? I have seen this a number of times also.

      Most bisexuals will hide behind gay or heterosexual labels so they don’t get abuse from others of their peer group.

      Yes there are perfect 1 and 6 on the Kinsey….but they are rare as hens teeth.
      When we finally destigmatize the B in LGBT then we will see a very large swell in the ranks as a ton of closeted B’s come out.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 12:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @Anouther transgirl:

      So you changed your story. At first you said that bi as a stepping stone to gay identity didn’t exist and now you admit it does.

      So if anybody was doing the stigmatizing it was you.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 12:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anouther transgirl
      Anouther transgirl

      Actually I am pointing out absurdities.
      Bravo, you caught it.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 1:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @Anouther transgirl:

      #18 you said “So the bisexual as a steping stone to gay is bunk.”

      #24 you said “And I have seen gay as a steping stone to bi also.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 1:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atlas
      Atlas

      Can we just accept bisexuality without having to hate on male bisexuals, female bisexuals, male homosexuals, or female homosexuals? Most of these posts are singling out on of those to shame. It’s ridiculous.

      In my opinion, there are plenty of bisexual guys around, but most of them are closeted. Most closeted bi guys pretend to be straight, but a decent number of them pretend to be gay. They pick whichever side they find easier because bisexual men get more hate than anyone else, even gay men.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 1:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      Bisexuality will become more accepted and understood when “gay” has less of a negative stigma attached to it. We see it all the time – “Bi now, Gay later” – the simple reality that many gay people, particularly males, claim a false Bi identity before they’re able to admit to others, and themselves, that they are indeed just plain old GAY. Why do they do this? Simple: bi = not totally gay and therefore not “bad” because gay still equals BAD in the eyes of far too many. then as their confidence in identity grows they drop the need to falsely co-opt the bisexual label and thus they make it seem as if “bi” is just a transient phase. it’s not. it’s its own unique orientation.

      there’s a reason that on gay personal sites most self-identifying bisexual males are
      1. under 25.
      2. not Out
      3. members of conservative religious/political affiliations
      4. littering their profiles with defensive quantifiers about how “not gay” they are – discreet, non-scene, masc, str8-acting, blah blah blah

      Bisexuality exists. it’s a legit orientation. and it’s because of gay people falsely co-opting it as a transitory identity before admitting to being gay that it’s got a stigma of “not being real”

      we end a culture that is so adamantly anti-gay and we’ll have fewer gay people falsely claiming to be Bi and then we can have, at last, actual bisexuals representing themselves instead of gay people falsely representing themselves as bisexuals.

      werk.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 2:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jen
      Jen

      @Anouther transgirl — you mean 0 and 6 on the Kinsey scale, I’m sure :)

      I regularly see the phenomenon you’re talking about at the end of the night in clubs, but through a different lens: I run a bi social/support group and about 30-40% of people who come to that group are coming from a situation of having previously come out as lesbian or gay, then realised that same-sex is not their only attraction, and now come up against being ostracised by their gay social group for breaking the ‘party line’. It’s interesting how that is shifting slightly with generational change, it’s definitely better for the people 20 years younger than me than it was 20 years ago.

      @Anon (no.4) it is funny how we have such a strong cultural narrative of strong separation of male/female, gay/straight, when we can cope with so many other infinitely variable things – skin colour, height, weight, age…

      @Cam – the quid quo pro of your opening para earlier at no.17 is that the gay community needs to admit the fact that a HUGE number of bisexual men and women claim to be gay or lesbian as part of the coming out process, and explore the peer-pressure reasons why that happens. When we get past that, the LGB/LGBT communities will be a whole lot bigger and stronger.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 2:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      I also tend to think that women should be removed from the GLBT movement. I’m also in favor of removing the L from GLBT. Why the fuck should women get a special designation for their gender? Men don’t.

      Sorry, sisters, but you’ve been riding the gravy train of the same-sex rights movement for far too long. It’s time you were removed.

      And, for Pete’s sake, don’t come back to me and start calling me names. It’s the typical tactic of loser liberals. The simple fact is that women have never had to face the same legal issues that men have had to face in the last few centuries. Most laws against homosexuality throughout the world were directed against men, not women. How’s that for discrimination?

      Queen Victoria, a woman herself, banned male homosexuality, not female homosexuality.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 2:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      The attitude to the female homosexual behavior is much better than than the male. And precisely because of the porno stereotypes ! Attitude toward male and female homo / bisexuality is fundamentally different.
      If we raise the question of double standards, it does not mean that we are acting against lesbians, but gloss over the subject is impossible. Since in this case indicates homophobes on their hypocrisy, and already they have to justify . However, this is not done, but often gay themselves are actively involved in the exacerbation of double standards on bisexuality. Blaming male bisexuality, which is characteristic of many men and repression of which leads eventually to the violent homophobia.
      The roots of homophobia is in fear in front of homo eroticizm (whether it’s love or sex of the two men). Which went from 18 Levit. It does not matter whether the latent bisexual or heterosexual men are typical. All they have to install that “right” masculinity can only lie in heterosexism.
      So what do many gay men, including and gay activists? Male homosexual behavior is driven further into the ghetto. Instead, to show that men can be attracted to other men that it does not mean that they immediately become gay. Prior to denying the very existence of bisexuality in men!
      But the latent homophobes does not change either Pride or “prayers for bobby” or the legalization of gay marriage. They need to create conditions in which they can express themselves without fear of social sanctions. Make it so that sex between men is commonplace!

      Oct 23, 2011 at 3:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      jason, you’re a wimp. sucking up to your right-wing misogynistic idols won’t make them respect you, it just proves that you’re a complete doormat.

      your cowardly ass owes its existence to the women who demanded Equality – the Suffragettes.

      You criticize liberals then complain about “women riding the gravy train?”

      You wimp. You wannabe-conservatives having been riding the “gravy train” that liberals have worked their asses off for. Liberals putting themselves on the line, targets on their backs, all so that a wimp like you can hate liberals in the hopes that your piece of shit father will tolerate your need to swallow cock.

      grow a pair.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 3:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      @jason:
      “The simple fact is that women have never had to face the same legal issues that men have had to face in the last few centuries.”

      that’s hilarious. either you know nothing about american history, or you choose to ignore it. you’re flat-out wrong with that statement. work less on hating women and “liberals” and more on, you know, educating yourself.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 3:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Moscow
      Mark Moscow

      @Little Kiwi: cause of homophobia not in the sexism. Abraham’s religions! But I agree with you that masculinity in present days is totally homophobic. But radical feminists definitely doesnt care about gay male rights!

      Oct 23, 2011 at 3:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      “But radical feminists definitely doesnt care about gay male rights!”

      That’s odd. Define ‘radical feminists’….I’ve worked for years with men and women, feminists who are both female AND male, and they’ve all been wholly in support of LGBT Equality.

      I find more right-leaning insecure homosexual males who resent women and all things deemed “femme” drag their heels over LGBT Equality than ‘radical feminists’ do.

      in fact i’ve only every really enountered true support for LGBT Equality from ‘radical feminists’ – it’s all about people who seek to break the glass ceilings of preconceived gender-norms.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 3:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bee
      Bee

      Frank is an all around asshole with anger issues from what I’ve seen on TRW, being bisexual might not be why he’s finding trouble hooking up.

      On the issue of bisexuality, gay men would probably feel more secure in a relationship with another gay man than a bisexual.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 3:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jd
      jd

      This is so ridiculous. It’s like people sitting around arguing about STAR TREK or LORD OF THE RINGS. At the end of the day it’s moot because IT’S NOT REAL! lol…

      Oct 23, 2011 at 4:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      Frank is cute will not deny that.His outburts and anger issues though seem to show that he needs help.I am talking about that he seems like he has been hurt in someway or another possibly abused.He’s not a bad person by no means just more or less understood I just hope he gets the help he deserves if something happened to him in his past.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 4:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Little Kiwi,

      Go look up the legislations of countries that have forbidden, and still forbid, same-sex relations. It might illuminate you.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TanyaHyde
      TanyaHyde

      @jason: Little Kiwi,

      Go look up the legislations of countries that have forbidden, and still forbid, same-sex relations. It might illuminate you.”

      Jason if there is anyone in need of dire illumination it is you. You’re side-stepping Little Kiwi’s challenge to your previous and odious statement:

      jason:
      “The simple fact is that women have never had to face the same legal issues that men have had to face in the last few centuries.”

      little kiwi:
      that’s hilarious. either you know nothing about american history, or you choose to ignore it. you’re flat-out wrong with that statement. work less on hating women and “liberals” and more on, you know, educating yourself.

      Exactly what legal issues have men faced in the last few centuries that women have not?

      IMHO, your off-the-mark response regarding same-sex issues is extremely weak because, obviously, women in same-sexed relationships face the exact same legal hurdles that male same-sexed partners do. So WTF are you taking about?

      Oct 23, 2011 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TanyaHyde
      TanyaHyde

      @jason: Little Kiwi,

      Go look up the legislations of countries that have forbidden, and still forbid, same-sex relations. It might illuminate you.”

      Jason if there is anyone in need of dire illumination it is you. You’re side-stepping Little Kiwi’s challenge to your previous and odious statement:

      jason:
      “The simple fact is that women have never had to face the same legal issues that men have had to face in the last few centuries.”

      little kiwi:
      that’s hilarious. either you know nothing about american history, or you choose to ignore it. you’re flat-out wrong with that statement. work less on hating women and “liberals” and more on, you know, educating yourself.

      I agree with little kiwi, exactly what legal issues have men faced in the last few centuries that women have not? Without even thinking about it much, I’m pretty sure that most people would say that it is the other way around.

      IMHO, your off-the-mark response regarding same-sex issues is extremely weak because, obviously, women in same-sexed relationships face the exact same legal hurdles that male same-sexed partners do. So WTF are you taking about?

      Oct 23, 2011 at 7:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atlas
      Atlas

      Tanya, while I don’t agree with Jason’s positions, I don’t think you are understanding what he means. In the US, male and female sexuality are treated equally, legally anyway, but world-wide there are several countries (Sierra Leone, Belize, Singapore, ect) where female homosexuality is legal and male homosexuality is illegal, but there are no countries where only female homosexuality is illegal. I believe that’s what he meant.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 8:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mike128
      mike128

      Why do we have to argue about how people want to identify or choose who they want to sleep with? Our labels tend to be oversimplifications anyway. If a label works for someone (for whatever reason), why can’t we just let them go with it? And if they want to sleep with only one sex or with both sexes… whether for “real” or “fake” reasons… so what? As long as they are monogamous when they’re you’re partner (and you’d like them to be monogamous) or open when they’re your partner (and you’re looking for something open). Otherwise, it’s not much of anyone’s business or concern, is it?

      Oct 23, 2011 at 8:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jacob
      Jacob

      Ok, so why don’t we all quit bickering about what is what who is who and who is fake. I mean really are we back in High school again. It’s conversations like these that bring up the issues that you seem to be talking about anyway , let people be people, no matter how they display their affection. Love is Love, It knows no race, gender, or religion and from what i read you all understand that you just need to be reminded of it. So these claims of fakeness between orientations is absolutely ridiculous, and is one of the reasons why the world is what it is today because people can’t just except other people and be done with it. SMH.

      Oct 23, 2011 at 9:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob
      Rob

      @Jen-Yes it is true that a lot of bisexual men and women-myself included either did identify as gay men or lesbian women first or for a period of our lives before we discovered that we’re bisexual. I’m in my early 30s now and this happened to myself and a bisexual male friend of mine I met as a freshman in college who identified as heterosexual and then came out as gay before he realized that he’s bisexual too.

      I have read studies about the number of GLBT people and out of gay men, lesbians, trans people (of both genders), and bisexuals of both genders there are more bisexuals than there are gay men, lesbian women, and trans people of both genders combined.

      It is not the fault of actual bisexuals like myself and the others posting here that there are gay men and lesbians who know that they’re not bisexual yet claim that they are when they never were or are bisexual and are just afraid to come out as being gay or lesbian.

      Thankfully most gay men who I have met seem to be moving past the idea that if you’re bisexual and a man that you’re really gay and haven’t come out yet and even though these men are not bisexual they do understand bisexuality and what bisexuals go through.

      As a bisexual yes you can be totally monogamous and totally satisfied and that includes when you’re a bisexual man with a gay man, or a bisexual woman with a lesbian woman, or a bisexual man or woman with a heterosexual partner.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 1:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JT
      JT

      Another T-Girl-I would not say that 0’s or straight people, or 6’s on the Kinsey scale are somehow “as rare as hen’s teeth”. Most people in the human population are heterosexual and don’t have any desire to have sex with the same gender and have never had a same gender sexual experience, or sexual attraction to both genders.

      If someone is a Kinsey 5 and actually sexually attracted to women then they’re bisexual, but there are also Kinsey 6’s who while they’ve had sexual experiences with women usually as teenagers, young adults, or with some generations of gay men who thought they had to marry women or they knew they were gay and married women anyway-none of these sexual experiences with women make them bisexual or a Kinsey 5 since they’ve never been sexually attracted to women at all.

      I’m a gay man and I’ve never had sex with a woman but I have some gay male friends who told me how when they were teenagers they did have sex with women and having sex with women made them realize that they’re not sexually attracted to women at all. Just because they’ve had a sexual experience with a woman or once had a girlfriend or even wife that doesn’t make them somehow bisexual or sexually attracted to women.

      Now the “gay” men you are describing who when they strike out with men at a bar hook up with women those men are bisexual since they are clearly sexually attracted to women and enjoy having sex with women.

      I have had nights when I struck out with men or a man who I met at a bar or dance club who I was attracted to but I’ve never hooked up with a woman when there were no men around and I was horny or when I was horny for a man and a woman flirted with me.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 1:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jessi
      jessi

      The reason gay men don’t like bisexual men is because bisexual men are total horndog sluts. They will fuck anything and everything. I know there alot of gay male sluts too, but the ones I know at least have sex with men they are attracted to. The bisexual men I know will fuck anybody, if they get drunk enough. They are happy just as long as they get to go home with someone.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 1:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David
      David

      Jessi STFU bigot, there’s the pot calling the kettle black, there are some gay men who are highly promiscuous and I know bisexuals who are not promiscuous at all. This isn’t to say that being a gay man makes one promiscuous as there are even heterosexual people of both genders who are very promiscuous.

      Really someone’s sexual orientation does not determine how sexually promiscuous or sexually active they’re going to be.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 1:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jessi
      jessi

      @David: Seriously, I don’t know any bisexual men that are monogamous. I’m not being a bigot in stating that. I agree that there are promiscuous people in all sexualities, but in other situations you just have to compete with one sex. How could anyone want to be in a relationship with a bisexual, unless they themselves are bisexual? One day they feel like fucking a guy, the next a girl. How can you compete with that? You can’t.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 2:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David
      David

      LMAO who says sexuality is about competition? No not all bisexuals want to have sex with a man one day and a woman the next day, and then go back to a man.

      Get out more if you claim that you somehow “don’t know any bisexual men who are monogamous”.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 2:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bigg
      Bigg

      Guys like @Jason trolling this site are why I almost never come here.
      @Jason: take your right-wing bullshit and shove it back where it came from.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 6:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      TanyaHyde,

      Have you even bothered to look at the laws of countries that ban homosexuality? In many cases, you will find that they ban male homosexuality, not female homosexuality. Go do some checking, honey, and then come back once you’re illuminated.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 8:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      At the social level, there is no doubt at all that female bisexuality has been glamorized and male bisexuality has been downplayed or ignored. The women who do porn are particularly responsible for this. These women are depraved. Any woman who engages in lesbian behavior to please a man is depraved. These women have no right to be associated with the gay rights movement.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 8:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GregR
      GregR

      Jason sure seems to have a lot to say on this subject. I don’t know what he means by fakeness. If anything, bisexual men seem fake. It seems they stay involved with women so that they aren’t all the way into being gay. They can say they still like women. They’re always involved with a woman too, but they will have their encounters with men and then retreat back to their pretend straight world. If a guy is single and bi, it seems they mostly have sex with men. If a guy is having sex with another man, does it make a difference to say they are bi? They’re still having sex with men. They might as well be gay.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 8:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      GregR,

      Many bisexual men settle down with women because they want to have a family. They’re not going to be able to produce children with another man. There’s no pretense about this at all – for reproduction, you need a man and a woman.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 9:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike in Asheville
      Mike in Asheville [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @Mark: Sorry Mark/Jason, but I’m still just Mike. There is no bisexual double standard, just your fucked up sense of logic. For straight guys who are cool with girl-on-girl sex, it is simply 4 titties and 2 pussies, more opportunity for them. And yes, those who are cool with the girl-on-girl but denounce gay guys are total shits.

      You though have your whole fucked up conspiracy theories about how everyone who is not exactly like you — as in, all women who you claim are whores selling their sexuality because that is how they have gained all the control over men (yes all those women CEOs, presidents, etc); all straight men who lie about, as you claim, 90% want to have sex with men; everyone who enjoys porn because, well someone is being exploited; and all gay men who enjoy having sex with many other gay men — you are just so full of shit, at least I get a bit of joy having fun at your expense.

      Now, do make sure you get back on your meds because crazy is as crazy does!

      Oct 24, 2011 at 9:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bee
      Bee [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @jessi: So true, a lot of bisexuals, almost everyone I’ve met, said they go through the bi fluctuation where today they want girls and tomorrow they feel like they want guys only, and many have said they feel the need for both sexes to be completely fulfilled in a relationship, how the heck do you handle being secure in a relationship with someone if you feel you can’t totally satisfy him/her.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 11:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RFM
      RFM

      GregR-That’s typical biphobia and bisexual erasure from a gay man.

      Gay men who are biphobic, when they’re not eagerly cruising bisexual men on Grindr, in bath houses, on hook up sites, in bars/dance clubs, and in chat-rooms, are too often keen to denounce the ‘dishonesty’ and ‘double lives’ and ‘repression’ of bisexual men – because they have the temerity to not be just like them, and instead realize that their sexuality is just a factor of who they are rather than order their lives and their wardrobe around their sexuality.

      Yes there are lots of gay men who view being gay as just an aspect of themselves and not a huge defining factor and someone’s sexuality should be this way no matter what their orientation is and it should not be any more significance than the color of their eyes.

      Bisexuality in men is real and it’s an actual sexual orientation just as much as being gay or heterosexual is.

      Then again you’re doing to bisexual men what heterosexuals have done to gay men and GLBT people for a very long time and claiming that a certain sexuality is not real or true which is bullshit and bigotry, and as a gay man one would hope you’d know better.

      Bisexual men are not gay men, and unlike gay men bisexual men are actually sexually attracted to women which is something a gay man is not going to understand or know about since if someone’s a gay man they’re not going to be sexually attracted to women at all.

      The idea that most bisexual men somehow retreat into the “straight” world is BS too. Do you realize how many gay men were or still are closeted, on the down low, or they’ve even married women and had kids with them all while knowing that they’re gay? Most gay men in the world and even in North America are closeted and either involved with a woman now or have been in the past.

      Yeah it does make a difference if someone is out as bisexual. Would you prefer that everyone just keeps their sexuality hidden or pretends to be something that they’re not?

      On people who say that that ‘bisexuals’ should date their own kind. This is saying they are a separate category of people from gays and lesbians and should leave those pure homos alone and stay with their own.

      I think it is a) Horrendous to the form of fascist

      b) laughable, because, being gay means you are going to come into contact at some point or other with ‘bisexuals’. If we eradicated bisexuals from gay men’s sex lives, who would be left for gay men to have sex with, have relationships with, and date?

      Oct 24, 2011 at 1:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Moscow
      Mark Moscow

      @Little Kiwi: Definition of radical feminism look in the dictionary. Although ordinary people it is always associated with misandry.
      However, many other (less radical) feminists are concerned only with the interests of women. In Western society the oppressed sex are men. Read Warren Farrell’s “The Myth of Male Power.”

      As for specific examples of behavior of radical feminists, I can say that they are against the Commercial surrogacy. This means that male same-sex couples can not have their own genetic children (as well as many heterosexual couples). And they explain that the wild ravings about the exploitation of women. With voluntary and high-paying work is exploitation!
      Somehow, against sperm donation to lesbian couples they serve. What do we, only male same-sex couples can not have their own children?. “LGBT Equality”?!?!
      It seems to me that under all these tantrums is the fear of losing the reproductive monopoly of women over men. And so then there will be an instrument of oppression of men, as men become free! Besides, reproductive inferiority of male same-sex couples because of the ban on commercial surrogacy – this is a huge reason for homophobia. To say that it is unnatural, they can not, because not against lesbian sex and even impose its heterosexual women, as well as tales of Sodom and Gomorrah, too, no one else believes that the statement that gays do not give birth to children – true and an excuse for domestic homophobia. When the parents will be clear that the son would bring them any grandchildren orientaptsiey, then homophobia will lose the last of rational argument. But the radical feminists (most of which lesbian and bi-women) do not care about it. They are more important to preserve the reproductive oppression of men. (It’s about solidarity, “LGBT” to which many of the so strenuously urged). and if in the U.S., the most glaringly apparent double standards in Europe thrives reproductive fascism in the form of a ban on commercial surrogacy!
      Gays and bi-men have to support liberal maskulizm!

      Oct 24, 2011 at 1:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      ” In Western society the oppressed sex are men. Read Warren Farrell’s “The Myth of Male Power.”:

      I’m not terribly interested in insecure straight white males pretending they’re an oppressed minority group, thanks.

      know what i’m hearing from you? misogyny. chauvinism. i know many gay male couples who have their own biological children.

      what you are doing is parroting the nonsensical ramblings of insecure men who dont’ want to give up their world of power. colour me unimpressed.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 1:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Moscow
      Mark Moscow

      @Little Kiwi: LOL! you are just stupid radical feminist. Pro-feminist orientation of gay and bi guys is very big mistake. And Warrenn Farrell is not chauvinist, he is antisexist. Btw, many and many of women support sexism! Because they dont want to lose their privilige status!
      “i know many gay male couples who have their own biological children.” You are liar! Gay male couples in European countries can not to have their own genetical childs or have many problems and struggle for right to be a father! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXwhIomBQnw Because hypocritical misandrists like you!

      Oct 24, 2011 at 2:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      thank you for proving me right. you don’t like women. congratulations.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 2:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Moscow
      Mark Moscow

      @Little Kiwi: ahahah! bird, you havent any arguments))) yes, I like a men!)))

      Oct 24, 2011 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      i like men, too. but i don’t dislike women. there’s a difference. congrats. you proved me right.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 2:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Moscow
      Mark Moscow

      @Little Kiwi: I dont dislike women too. I dislike hypocrisy. Read my comment 32.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 2:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Moscow
      Mark Moscow

      @Mike in Asheville: or Jeffree\Soupy\Hoyupi or other your stupid fake, 1 – I’m not Jason, my IP-adres in Europe, 2 – majority of guys are bi-curious! Remember Antiquity or even society until Christianity. But in present days porn standards say that male-male action is the shame. Porn standards suppress male bisexuality. Thats why we have homophobia!

      Oct 24, 2011 at 2:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      you’re mad at women when you should be mad at heterosexual men. you know why lesbianism isn’t criticized by right-wing homophobes in the same way?
      THIS is why: http://youtu.be/CNs26d6v-NA

      Oct 24, 2011 at 2:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Moscow
      Mark Moscow

      @Little Kiwi: You are not right. I have many female friends. Near 75% of all my friends. I criticize policy of double standards only! This video just freak show. You cant deny that majority of homophobes hate only male homosexual behaviour. Christian’s tabboo on widespread male homoerotism is the cause of homophobia.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 3:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bee
      Bee [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @RFM: What’s up with most bi guys and wanting to down play what people’s sexualities mean to them? Sure you’re half-gay and you can retreat in your hetero-life anytime you want, but that doesn’t mean people’s sexuality isn’t a big part of who they are. You don’t get beat up or discriminated against because of the color of your eyes, so that’s a stupid comparison. I don’t get your last part either, if there were no bi men, there’d be other gay men to date, considering more gay guys have probably been with more gay guys as than they’ve been with bisexuals and considering there are more bisexuals choosing to live hetero lives than gay lives, I don’t think it’d make that much of a difference tbh. It’d probably be nice if bisexuals dated other bisexuals, at least they can deal with fluctuating sexual attractions.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 3:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      you’re angry at lesbians when you should be angry at insecure hetetosexual men. and the insecure homosexual men who suck up to those insecure heterosexual men.

      anti-gay bigots focus on male-male anal sex because they see male on male love as being traitorous to the male gender, whereas they see female on female love as nothing more than titillation because these pigs only see women as sexual fantasies.

      what you call “double standards” is actually an entirely different set of specific sociological circumstances. but you’re flat out wrong in your assertion that males are the oppressed group. that’s insane.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 3:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • j
      j

      @jason: Impeccable logic there, jason. Please see; non sequitur, confirmation bias, begging the question.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 3:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Moscow
      Mark Moscow

      @Little Kiwi: I’m not angry, I’m just indefferent to lesbians. Yes, patriarchat after 18 Levynite can be only heterosexual. You are right. But! Until christianity male gender vector was bisexual. And now many of them deny their inclination to a men by the homophobia. “Straight males” are victims themselves. However, many of women support this standards. They want to be only “beuatiful sex”, it give to them a lot of privileges.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 3:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      if you think women have more privileges than men, and that men are the “oppressed gender”, then you’re revealing either a profound level of ignorance or a profound level of misogyny.

      or perhaps both.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 3:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Moscow
      Mark Moscow

      @Little Kiwi: Ok. By the same analogy, I can say that ALL feminists are misandrists.))

      Oct 24, 2011 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Mark Moscow:

      They want to be only “beuatiful sex,it give to them a lot of privileges.

      Umm…. what?

      I never will understand the hate against bisexuals or lesbians.This is like some Twilight Zone shit going on when it comes to stuff like this for real.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 3:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RMF
      RMF

      Bee, No bisexuals cannot retreat into a “hetero life” anytime we want.

      It’s just like how gay men can’t retreat into a “hetero life” anytime they want, even though most have tried to, especially if you look at the numbers of gay men worldwide and how most gay men are not out.

      If you look up the percentage of the population of GLBT people there are way more bisexuals than there are gay men. I’m not saying that everyone is bisexual but gay men are a small percentage of the population and there are a lot more bisexual men than gay men.

      You don’t seem to understand bisexuality Bee, not all bisexuals “choose to live a hetero life” as there are a lot of bisexual men who only fall in love with men but have sexual attractions to both genders. There are a lot of bisexuals who can fall in love with both genders too.

      The point I was making about the color of someone’s eyes was totally lost on you and it has nothing to do with actual discrimination or being bashed for one’s sexuality. Way to be a total victim and play the bashing card.

      No matter what someone’s sexuality is it is not a huge defining factor in who they are as a person. Yes it’s good to be out and I’ve been out as bisexual for decades but people know me as who I am as a person first and not my sexuality.

      It’s not like when I first meet people I tell them my name and then say to them “Oh by the way I’m bisexual”. I have met hundreds of gay men who agree with me about this, and while they are out as gay men they are not ashamed of their sexuality and don’t hide it but they don’t revolve their entire existence around being nothing but a gay man, they don’t want to live in the gay world or gay/GLBT ghetto 24/7, and they don’t wrap up their entire identity as a person up with their sexuality like some gay men do.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 4:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Moscow
      Mark Moscow

      I told you already that I dont hate lesbians or bi-women. But fake female bisexuality for straight men I really hate! Btw, many of fake bi-women hate any male homosexual acts. (Fake bi-women it when women can’t any inclination to other women).
      And, btw, I don’t forget to criticize hypocritical straight men who says “lesbians is the cool, but fags must die”. Good night, bird=))

      Oct 24, 2011 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      bisexuality is not gay nor is it straight nor is it a combination of both. it is its own unique orienetation, and within that unique orientation you will get variations of preference.

      that said, the whole “it’s not a big part of me, it doesn’t define me, i don’t need to let everyone know” nonsense was a tired and evasive excuse in 1969 and it’s a tired evasive excuse today in 2011.

      the only people who are “defined” by their orientation are the ones who makes excuses to not be Out and say “i’m not defined by it” – sure you are, sugar. you’re defined by your fear of being defined by your orientation to others. those of us that are fully 100% Out no longer care about other people defining us.

      “my identity doesn’t revolve around me being gay” is what someone says when their identity revolves around “not having a gay identity” – it’s apologist nonsense.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chad
      Chad

      LMAO not everyone is “professional gay” like that moron Kiwi is.

      I’m out as a gay man but I’m not professional gay and I don’t talk out my ass like Kiwi loves to.

      Really now, I don’t see the point of telling EVERYONE who you meet and come into contact with about your sexuality since it’s pointless and not even heterosexuals do this.

      I’m out and have been for 35 years and it’s public knowledge as anyone can find various sites I’m on and I live with a male partner. I’m out to my doctor, friends, family, and other people but I don’t come out to every single person who I’ve ever met and interacted with.

      Just today I called up tech support about something and I didn’t tell the person on the phone who was helping me that I’m gay since it would have been pointless. Or when I go into a store and buy something do you think that I tell the clerk or cashier and everyone who I see that I’m a gay man?

      Keep talking out your arse Kiwi it’s hilarious!

      Oct 24, 2011 at 4:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      heterosexuals dont’ do it because we live in a culture where there’s no negative stigma attached to heterosexuality, and heterosexuality is assumed onto everyone : you’re straight until proven gay. we don’t live in an orientation-neutral culture.

      nobody, at any point, has ever suggested “telling the cashier at your local K-Mart that you’re gay whilst ringing through your purchases” and anyone who puts that up as an argument only proves that they’re still living in fear of what The Straights think.

      i’m not talking out of my ass, Chad. you, however, continue to prove yourself to be an idiot. keep it up.

      btw, check this out, Dan Savage rather perfectly answers a question to a young man about Coming Out:
      http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/10/savage-honesty.html

      Oct 24, 2011 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Patrick
      Patrick

      Puhlease! Transphobic, biphobic, HIV+ phobic, woman hating racist that has exploited LGBTs for his own pocketbook calling someone else a scumbag grifter? Hypocrisy, thy name is Miss Dan Savage. *spits*

      Dan Savage is a self-centered embarrassment.

      Mr. Savage himself is the worst spokesman the gay/GLBT community can ask for. He should stick to offering shitty sex advice on putting metal rods up your dick and stop pretending he has anything intelligent to say on matters of institutional or political importance. He’s not even that good at giving people sex or relationship advice and he’s not an expert on human sexuality at all.

      Dan Savage makes lots more money by saying controversial things. He does not simply have an opinion about non-monogamy, he strongly pushes it any chance he gets. It is part of his money making brand, just like always wearing a T-shirt, and making himself Mother Teresa with “It gets better”.

      On Dan Savage, I certainly don’t want him representing gay men or all GLBT people. Who the fuck appointed him?

      If he wishes to be a media whore, he should represent himself under the Dan Savage banner, not the gay rights/GLBT rights banner.

      The more Savage opens his mouth, the less interested I am in what comes out of it.

      If he wishes to be a media whore, he should represent himself under the Dan Savage banner, not the gay rights/GLBT rights banner, and as biphobic and transphobic as he is he should be the last person running any sort of project against bullying for GLBT youth all while he tells actual bisexual youth/teens and young adults that they’re not really bisexual and that they’re going to eventually come out as gay/lesbian. He also completely supported the studies by that asshole Dr. J. Michael Bailey who is transphobic, homophobic, and biphobic.

      Savage is a bandwagon opportunist, nothing more.

      If you think that he actually cares about anyone but himself, that he actually cares about GLBT people or GLBT youth all while getting an MTV reality TV show for his pointless failure of “It gets better” publicity stunt then you have not been paying attention.

      He should have named his kid “Material” or “the book all about ME that I want people to buy!”

      He’s an opportunist – always has been.

      Dan Savage’s tone is harsh and biting; his responses seem to care little about the community but alot about how he looks in the community.

      Time after time, Savage attempts to pass off his cute funny bits as true advice.

      Savage spends the majority of the time talking about himself. He doesn’t so much “give advice” as he mocks the letter writers while he jumps on and off his “enlightened” soapbox.

      Dan Savage can go F**k himself for all I care: at the beginning of the war he wrote columns calling peace protestors idiots and fools. What is even more pathetic is that I have never once heard him own up to it in an interview.

      Don’t belive me? Read it for yourself here:

      http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=12237

      Too bad Savage is so biphobic. I wonder when the homosexist members of the LGBT movement will finally acknowledge that bisexuals and bisexuality exist, that our sexuality is as legitimate as theirs. and that the civil and human rights gains that have been made for LGBT people would not have been made without the involvement, commitment, hard work and sacrifice of bisexuals. Dan Savage’s bigotry sickens and saddens me. To know that he now has a larger platform from which to broadcast that bigotry is troubling. For bisexuals, it doesn’t get better with Dan Savage around.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 5:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      thank you for copying and pasting your rant on dan savage. none of your comments, however, have any bearing on the simple fact that his response to the boy who wrote the question was, in a word, perfect.

      your vehement dislike of dan savage doesn’t change that. at all.

      http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/10/savage-honesty.html

      pick a battle worth fighting, sugar. hating dan savage doesn’t take away the truth of his response to this young man.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 5:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      @Patrick: are you bisexual, Patrick? If so, how about you link us to your blog/youtube/Advocacy page.

      what better way than to actually BE the change you want to see? I’m sure you can provide us all with the URL to your own advocacy page where you stand proud as a bisexual man. right?

      Oct 24, 2011 at 5:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Patrick
      Patrick

      That’s nice Kiwi but this topic is about biphobia.

      I did not read your blog and I didn’t read the link you posted since it has nothing to do with the present topic here at all.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 5:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      yeah. you didn’t read the link, you instead posted a long irrelevant ramble about why you hate Dan Savage. So, rather than pasting the big ramble about why you hate Dan Savage how about you link us to your own bisexual advocacy page, as you clearly must have one. Correct?

      i mean, you clearly come from the school of standing up to be counted and representing one’s self, so i’m sure you have a pro-Bisexuality advocacy page. sharing it with all of us would be great :-)

      Oct 24, 2011 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Patrick
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      fantastic! which one is yours? :D

      Oct 24, 2011 at 5:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lil
      Lil [Different person #1 using similar name]

      totally agree with Patrick…Savage is a biphobic assh0le

      Oct 24, 2011 at 6:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kurt
      Kurt

      >>heterosexuality is assumed onto everyone : you’re straight until proven gay. we don’t live in an orientation-neutral culture.<<

      That's not true. Clearly you've never been around flaming queens or seen how some heterosexuals can react when they're around a flaming queen who they know is gay.

      If you're effeminate and a man even if you're heterosexual you're assumed or presumed to be GAY.

      Ever hear of the term gay face? Or have you ever been around femmey queens who once they open their mouths a purse or flowers pop out?

      These men are NOT presumed to be heterosexual or straight at all and everyone knows they're a homo.

      Oct 24, 2011 at 11:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Will
      Will

      Most gay men and women I know operate on the premise of “unless we’re sleeping together, my sexuality is not your business.”

      Oct 24, 2011 at 11:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Will
      Will

      Most gay men and women I know operate on the premise of “unless we’re sleeping together, my sexual orientation is not your business.”

      Oct 24, 2011 at 11:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • R.A,
      R.A,

      Well, if you didn’t hate them before, listening to the bisexuals on this thread could do the trick.

      Fortunately, I do know intelligent bisexuals – women, in fact.

      Oct 25, 2011 at 4:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Will
      Will [Different person #1 using similar name]

      RA is Jason even bisexual? I thought that he’s gay and your typical gay man that’s a misogynist.

      Oct 25, 2011 at 12:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • skippyk
      skippyk

      i dont think it matters if your gay..straight..bi..or tri-whatever..people are attracted to what theyre attracted to..as far as people hating on others in here because of what they label themselves..its pretty friggin rediculous..everybody goes through theyre own process in life experimenting and labeling themselves over time in different categories..not everybody can be sooo self assured from the get go.. to the point of pronouncing how much other peoples lifestyles are this that and the other thing..must be a pretty boring existence to know it all..hmm

      Oct 25, 2011 at 1:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      “Most gay men and women I know operate on the premise of “unless we’re sleeping together, my sexuality is not your business.”

      then most gay men and women you know are cowards.

      you can be openly gay, visibly gay, identifiably gay, KNOWN as gay and yet still have a personal life, a private life and have the specifics of your sexuality be your own business.

      do you know ANY “vague heterosexuals” who talk about their “right to privacy” in regard to their heterosexuality? No. Of course not. And every time some gay apologist gives those excuses to be Closeted it’s just pathetic.

      when you make excuses to not be Out you reveal your shame about your orientation, and the more ashamed WE are of it the more the anti-gay bigots attack. stop the cowardice and the excuses.

      do you know why it was so easy for me to Come Out to my parents? because other LGBT people, before I was born, made it their business to be Out to my parents. not even best close friends. co-workers. church members. people in the community. men and women who took it upon themselves to live an Out life, a Visibly and Identifiably Gay life. they were seen and known as gay. So, my parents and people in my community growing up KNEW LGBT PEOPLE – when I came out in my teens it was coming out into a community, and indeed a family, that already accepted and embraced LGBT people.

      Every one of you adults who makes excuses to not be Out are slacking on the job – we adults have a responsibility to open the doors for the next generations. if you’re an adult, you have no reasons to be closeted. only excuses. wise up. Help Out, Come Out.

      Oct 25, 2011 at 1:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bee
      Bee

      @RMF: Of course they can. A bisexual is 50% heterosexual and at least has attractions to women and can make it work with them unlike a gay guy. If there are more bisexuals than gay men, they why aren’t they more active and noticeable with their opinions? Bisexuals whine and whine about how no one doesn’t understand them, gays don’t want them(with good reason), and heterosexuals don’t want them. If they’re are soo many of them, they must be cowards or just don’t care(in which case I’d say stop whinning), seeing as the “smaller” gay community has managed to get their voice heard louder.

      There’s a difference between MAJORITY and all, If i used the word “all”, I didn’t mean it, I meant majority of bisexuals live a hetero life and I stand by that. The % of bisexuals capable of falling in love with both genders is probably minuscule at best, most are either the fluctuating sexuality where they desire women today and men tomorrow and never feel complete just being in a monogamous relationship with someone of either gender , setting the foundation for a horrid relationship with whichever gay man or woman makes the mistake of falling for them or the “I like cock, but can only fall in love with women” bisexual schtick. There’s just too much uncertainty with a bisexual for things to ever work with a heterosexual woman or gay man.

      I’d say being discriminated against and having to fight for your rights does make a persons sexuality to become a big part of that person. Your sexuality can be a major part of who you are without being flaming or telling the first person you meet that you’re gay. That’s not how it works, but like I said bisexuals can never understand this, and that’s why your opinion is common place among bisexuals I’ve met, it’s probably the heterosexual privilege.

      Oct 25, 2011 at 3:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BiWoman
      BiWoman

      LMAO I love how gay men and lesbian women will claim that we bisexuals somehow magically get “heterosexual privilege” all while invalidating and erasing our sexuality, saying that bisexuals somehow don’t really understand what it’s not like to be non-heterosexual because we’re not gay or lesbian, and claiming that bisexuals somehow don’t deserve the same rights as everyone else and that “Gay is good” but somehow bisexuality is in their minds too close to the enemy or heterosexuals.

      This is nothing but prejudice, bigotry, and biphobia plain and simple.

      Oct 26, 2011 at 12:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Larry
      Larry

      Agree 100% with BiWoman.

      As we’re seeing in this thread a lot of gay men and lesbians are biphobic, hypocrites, and clearly not for sexual freedom for other people all while claiming that people who are gay, lesbian, and maybe heterosexual should have it but not bisexuals.

      These gay men and lesbians should stop going to pride events, GLBT events, and stop pretending to actually be for equality and sexual freedom for everyone in the GLBT community when they are not for equality at all.

      The point of gay and bisexual liberation and GLBT liberation is sexual freedom, not judging what other consenting adults who are GLBT or heterosexual do, and equality for everyone.

      No not all gay men and lesbians are biphobic and prejudiced against bisexuals but when you’re saying things like “I’d never get involved with a bisexual”, “gay men and lesbians should avoid dating and relationships with bisexuals”, or “It’s wrong and totally unfair when a bisexual falls in love with the opposite gender but not the same one!”, and claims that “Bisexuals are 50% straight and most are not equally attracted to both genders and don’t want relationships with both genders.”

      Then the old hetero privilage card of bigotry gets pulled out and the biphobic gay men and lesbians don’t seem to realize that there are tons of gay men and lesbian women who hide and pretend to be heterosexual, and that like Kiwi wrote even if you are gay or lesbian you are going to be assumed to be heterosexual in society and when people meet you.

      BTW there are a lot of gay men and lesbians who have told me “I just happen to be a person who is gay/lesbian. My sexuality is not what defines me completely as a person, but it’s just an aspect of who I am.” I have also met a lot of gay men and lesbians who have told me how if they could somehow magically pick their sexuality they would be heterosexual.

      There are tons of bisexuals who are out and have been for decades, vocal, and we do voice our opinions all while bigoted gay men and lesbians dismiss this and claim that it somehow does not happen or that our voices don’t matter because we’re bisexual.

      Oh bi the way, if you want to know who “whines” the most it would be the gay men and lesbians who are judgemental pricks and not for GLBT equality all while saying how it’s best to avoid having anything to do with heterosexuals, bisexuals, and trans people and that these people’s opinions and experiences are somehow not nearly as valid because they are not gay men or lesbians.

      Relationships between bisexual men and gay men do work, and the same goes for bisexual women with lesbians, and bisexual men with hetero women. I’m bisexual, monogamous, and I have a gay male partner who I’ve been with for decades.

      If you’ve actually looked at any research done about bisexuals or actually met bisexuals you’ll see how yes you can be bisexual and be monogamous, be in a stable and monogamous relationship/partnership and even marriage with the same or opposite gender, and yes bisexuals can be satisfied both sexually and romantically with a single person no matter what their gender is. Again if you looked at any research about bisexual men and women you’d see how we can fall in love with both genders and with the same gender.

      Bisexuality is not a mixture of 50% gay/lesbian and 50% heterosexual. This just shows how ignorant about human sexuality you are if you actually think this and believe it.

      Oct 26, 2011 at 1:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark In Colorado
      Mark In Colorado

      There are a whole shit load of latent bisexuals masquerading around as gay men because they are ignorant of the fact that bisexual doesn’t only mean an equal attraction to both genders or they’re too scared to admit it because they’ve invested so much of their time and energy cultivating a gay identity.

      There are some gay men like Bee who are highly bigoted towards bisexual men. Just like there are some lesbians who dislike bisexual women and trans women. These factors are also reasons why men and women who are bisexual yet call themselves gay or lesbian do not want to come out.

      The dirty little secret that never gets addressed in the so called “gay” world is the fact that many gay men do go through a second coming out and re-identify as bisexual. These men may still overwhelmingly prefer men, but their orientation and identity are not exclusively towards men so they’re not gay. Their attraction to both sexes manifests differently as well.

      It’s always weird to be corrected by someone (e.g., Bee) who is completely wrong in their knowledge of a subject. I’ve found that if you dare to even allude to someone not being not quite “gay” (in other words bisexual) then you get the typical apoplectic reaction–oh no, no, no, he’s gay, he’s definitely gay, absolutely, no question about it, and on and on and on. So many gay men are so fucking bi-phobic it’s unreal–and it’s usually because they don’t understand the concept in the first place and they’ve made no attempt to do so.

      I do have to say this though. A good number of men who say they are gay aren’t fully gay. They only say they are gay because they want a relationship with a guy but they’re clearly sexually attracted to women since they’ll have sex with a woman in a male/male/female 3 way, or seek out women as sexual partners when they’re horny and men are not around and available for sex.

      There’s nothing wrong with being bisexual and it is a good thing despite what the idiots who claim that it’s somehow wrong, horrible, that bisexuals should be avoided like the plague for relationships since (in their opinion) it won’t work out, we can’t be monogamous, and we’re somehow 50% straight and get hetero privileges anytime we want them. Then you have fools who want to completely rewrite history and claim that bisexuals have somehow never been a part of gay/GLBT liberation.

      The bigots that hate gay men and all GLBT people somehow are not going to discriminate against bisexuals, don’t hate bisexuals just as much as they do gay men, and that if you’re getting bashed for your sexuality you can tell people that you’re bisexual and they will completely stop beating you up or just do it halfway, and if you get fired from your job for being bisexual you only got fired halfway and were told, “Just come in 3 days a week instead!”, or if you were kicked out of the United State military because of being bisexual told, “You can take a year’s break from the military and then come back, re-inlist, and you’ll get your old position, pay, benefits, and everything will be fine!”

      Oct 26, 2011 at 1:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BostonMike
      BostonMike

      Bee sounds like he’s one of those jaded and bitter queens who is jealous of bisexual men “Waaaaaaaaaaaaah! Bisexuals can hypothetically partner with women and even marry women! It’s not fair that I don’t have sexual attraction to the opposite gender too!”

      I’m a fag too but I don’t hate bisexuals, think that they’re somehow not a part of the “community”, and as Bee has shown there are ignorant bigots even inside the GLBT community.

      Bisexuals are just as out about their sexuality as we gay men are. Have you never been to a GLBT pride parade or event? Or actually been around members of your local GLBT community who are not only gay men or lesbians?

      Heterosexuals have complete sexual attraction to each other, and matching sexual orientations but the divorce rate for them is very high and they don’t always “make it work” automatically just because they share these traits.

      If I had the attitude like Bee thinks gay men should towards bisexuals I wouldn’t have met my husband who is bisexual. We would not have celebrated 15 years together as partners, and 7 years together as husbands.

      When I was single if I found out that another gay man I was dating didn’t like bisexuals or had issues with other people’s sexuality like Bee does I’d dump his hypocritical and pathetic ass and want nothing to do with him. That’s probably what happened to Bee when he or she dated a bisexual man or woman.

      Oct 26, 2011 at 3:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jack
      Jack

      I’m a gay man and I’ve been out for decades and I’m ashamed and embarrassed at how bigoted some of my fellow gay men are when it comes to bisexuals and bisexuality.

      Who are you to tell someone that they should identify as a gay man or lesbian woman just because it would make you feel better about their sexuality, or that an entire sexuality and community of people does not exist, or that community of people and sexuality as a whole isn’t “Gay” enough?

      To all of the people here who claim that there’s no such thing as bisexuality, that bisexual men are always really gay men or lesbians if they’re women, or that bisexual men and women should be avoided:

      You’re no better than Conservative Republicans, how some Christians (the born again type and Westboro Baptist church) are, and you’re bigoted just like these people are towards us GBLT people.

      It’s 2011, not 1961.

      If a man or woman is bisexual they’re still bisexual even if they’re partnered to the same gender and only have sex with the same gender for the rest of their life.

      To the bisexual men and women reading this ignore the haters replying to this blog. Not all gay men and lesbians are bigoted like a few of them are here. Many of us gay men love bisexual men and I’ve met many gay men who are more into bisexual men and only have lasting long term relationships and date them pretty much exclusively.

      Oct 26, 2011 at 4:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bee
      Bee

      @BostonMike: Most of the crying sounds like it’s coming from you tbh, and NO I’ve never had a bi guy dump me or even dated one, I know better than that. Why would I want to have attractions to both genders? I’m perfectly fine with one, thank you very much. And don’t worry, If I knew a guy like you I wouldn’t date you either, so we’re both not missing out on anything. I wonder how many 3somes with other women you and your “husband” have had? Gay men are sluts and bisexuals can never be satisfied with one gender, so I’m sure that’s a very interesting marriage. $10 says you’re not monogamous.

      @Mark In Colorado: Maybe they should stop letting what other people think affect them and do what makes them happy? Cowards, “whhaaa, I can’t come out because other gay or straight people will judge me when I say I like both genders”. Please, cry me a river. Bisexuals should keep feeding themselves with the silly BS about a lot of gay men becoming bi later in life and making it appear likebisexuality is somehow what we were all meant to be…sure.

      Most of what you’ll see are bisexual men in straight marriages whining about how they want to tell their wives they’d like to hook up with the other side. I don’t need to understand bisexuals. I know they like both sides and are never satisfied with being with one person. All the posts talking about how they’ve been with a bi man for xxx amount of years are probably just the same posters under different usernames or are in an extreme minority.

      @Larry: Not wanting to have a relationship(in a boyfriend, partner sense) with a bisexual isn’t biphobic. I’m waiting to see the 1000s of bisexuals who’ve been out for decades and are making their voices heard. I’m pretty sure there are very few. Most are too busy not caring since it doesn’t affect them seeing as they’re living an heterosexual life. And the bisexuals are still the biggest whiners, all you have to do is read the comments.

      And keep telling yourself that bisexuals can form a stable, monogamous relationship with either gender. It’s mostly happy on the outside and craving what the other side can offer on the inside.

      Also, when I said 50% heterosexual, I didn’t mean it must be perfectly equal. 50% refers to the part that part of a bisexual is heterosexual. Like I said most bisexuals can never be satisfied with everything in a particular gender, so I wouldn’t say bi people are perfectly half and half.

      @BiWoman: Hopefully you weren’t referring to my post as I never denied the existence of bisexuals

      Oct 26, 2011 at 3:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bee
      Bee

      @BostonMike: Looking back, I shouldn’t have bothered replying to this comment. Any gay person who uses the word “fag” is probably one of those daft gays who think using the word is somehow “reclaiming” it or removing it’s sting and is probably an idiot.

      Oct 26, 2011 at 3:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JoeyB
      JoeyB

      This crappy show is still on????? Geez… No wonder China is taking over the world.

      Oct 26, 2011 at 4:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BostonMike
      BostonMike [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Nope we’re monogamous.

      Oct 26, 2011 at 7:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff
      Jeff

      Bee You can say you are reasonable and just speaking truth, blah blah. But it’s prejudice, and bigotry. The bigot never thinks his bigotry is wrong and has every personal claim or opinion at hand to prove him/her right. Anyone who actually knows anything about bisexuality knows that you’re full of shit about the whole 50% heterosexual, since it varies and is different for everyone that’s bisexual and there’s nothing wrong with that.

      A lot of bisexuals have once identified as gay men or lesbians. It doesn’t mean that they ever were gay or lesbian it means that they identified as these sexual orientations and then discovered that they are actually bisexual. Other people who have replied to this topic have written about this or about how this happened to them.

      I have a friend who is bisexual and he had been out as a gay man for decades ever since he was 22 and at 48 he learned that he’s bisexual and has been all along.

      Oct 26, 2011 at 7:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kurt
      Kurt [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Gay bigots like Bee are the true faggots of the world and give all gay men and LGBT people a bad name.

      Fags who are biphobic like Bee is are not for sexual equality, and are closet case Conservatives and don’t give a shit about anyone’s rights except their own.

      Way to be a total hypocrite. I’m gay and not all of us homos dislike bisexuals or have bigotry towards them like some gay men do.

      Oct 26, 2011 at 8:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • eggsel
      eggsel

      Jack:
      Not all gay men and lesbians are bigoted like a few of them are here.

      Of course not, gay community accepts bisexuals, we just refuse to date them :P
      At least here in mexico, you know bi guys/girls are just for fun, and they knoe that too, i’ve never heard of a bi guy or woman to settle down with a same-sex partner :P

      Oct 26, 2011 at 8:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Estraven
      Estraven

      It’s always been amazing to me, as a life-long bisexual, how other people, who have never met me, never heard my voice, never talked to me, are suddenly the expert in MY sexuality. I have been happily, monogamously, married for 12 years. My husband prefers large-breasted red heads, and I am a mousy brunette. But he loves me, and resists temptation. Well, in the same way, when a woman comes along, I resist temptation. To say that I am less able to resist temptation than he is is to imply that I am less than human, some kind of demonic thing or brute animal. I have a soul, and free will, and I use them.

      Figures are unclear, but let’s say that at this time roughly 10% of the population are out as queer. No matter how badly a bisexual WANTS to have a relationship with a same gender person, that means that 90% of the people available to them are opposite gender, 10% same gender. And of those 10%, about half are like the bigots on this site, saying, as hase been said to my face (and sorry, it’s not true that female bisexuals do not face bigotry) “EWWWWWW!!!! I HATE bisexuals, and I would NEVER date one!!!” So only about half of same-gender loving people are available to bisexuals, so OF COURSE we are more likely to end up in relationships with the opposite gender, or trans people. DUH!!! But this is not because we seek straight priviledge:

      http://freaksexual.wordpress.com/2007/05/11/bisexuals-and-straight-privilege

      And for those who say you have never met a monogamous bisexual, it sounds like you are meeting bisexuals in bars. How many monogamous drinkers are there, gay, straight, or bi? I also run a bisexual support group, and the people who come to a nice, quiet support group in an LGBT Center tend NOT to be drinkers. They tend to be married, or looking for more reliable sorts of partners than one finds in a bar, and they ARE mostly monogamous people. Actually, Lisa Diamond did a 10-year study of women, and at the end of the study, MORE of the bisexual women were involved in monogamous relationships than either the Lesbian or straight women. And yes, recent studies all show that bisexuals are the biggest group in the LGBT rainbow. If everyone stopped hating on us, so the ones who are in hiding started identifying as queer, just THINK how powerful the queer movement could be!!!

      Oct 26, 2011 at 8:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stuffed Animal
      Stuffed Animal

      If it was not for those “whiny” and visible bisexuals, gay men lesbians, and GLBT people in general would not have nearly all of the visibility, freedom, or equality that they have and that we’re gaining now in leaps and bounds.

      Gay men and lesbians who are biphobic who claim that it’s best to avoid having anything to do with bisexuals, not to date bisexuals, and how this is somehow not biphobia are hypocritical and these people who don’t like bisexuals are just as bad as Conservative politicians like Rick Santorum and others.

      Categorizing all bisexuals as being promiscuous is a hasty generalization. Moreover, having more than one sexual partner in one’s lifetime, in addition to being commonplace in the world, is not restricted to bisexuals. People of any sexual orientation can change partners, practice serial monogamy or have multiple casual sex partners. The fact that bisexuals are potentially sexually attracted to both men and women does not imply that they must simultaneously engage in sexual relationships with both men and women to be satisfied, any more than the ability of a heterosexual or homosexual person to be attracted to multiple persons of their preferred gender means they cannot be satisfied in a monogamous relationship. The strict association of bisexuality with promiscuity stems from a variety of negative stereotypes targeting bisexuals as mentally or socially unstable people convinced that sexual relations only with men, only with women or only with one person is not enough.

      Bisexuality makes people uncomfortable. Many people wish that bisexuals would just go away, or at least not talk about it, because the very existence of bisexuality is seen as a threat to the social order. Declaring an open, unequivocal bisexual identity in either straight or gay/lesbian communities frequently results in experiences of discrimination, hostility, and invalidation.Bisexuals are frequently viewed by gay and lesbian-identified individuals as possessing a degree of privilege not available to gay men and lesbians, and are viewed by many heterosexuals as amoral, hedonistic spreaders of disease and disrupters of families.This “double discrimination” by heterosexuals and the gay and lesbian communities is seldom recognized or acknowledged as a force of external oppression, yet this oppression is real and has many damaging effects on bisexuals.

      Oct 26, 2011 at 11:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Scott Tacoma
      Scott Tacoma

      Biphobia is just as harmful as homophobia is, and in some cases it can be worse.

      bisexuality does exist; it is a valid sexual orientation and it doesn’t mean that you are a.) a slut, b.) incapable of making a commitment with a male or a female, or c.) just sexually confused (or drunk according to a recent episode of Glee). I know several legitimate bisexuals who constantly remind me of the stigma amongst the gay and lesbian community they face. In fact, there have been instances at a local gay youth group I used to attend wherein we’d have discussions about bisexuality wherein the gay and lesbian members of the group not only put down the idea of bisexuality as a real sexuality but also unleashed their opinions that all bisexuals are either “straight people trying to get in” or “gay people trying to get out.” It infuriated me to the point where I no longer felt welcome at the Oasis LGBT Center in Tacoma, WA.

      We can’t speak from our own experiences about any demographic because almost any statement we would make would be an over-generalization. Every bisexual person, along with everyone else, is coming from a different place and is living a life that is their own.

      that’s the essence of bigotry: Assuming that one’s own experiences with a member of a given group apply to all other members of that group. Black guy cut you off in traffic? Clearly, all black people are rude drivers. Latina mom letting her kid scream in a grocery store? Obviously, all Latina mothers are irresponsible and thoughtless. Gay guy cheats on you with 16 other guys? Obviously, all gay men are indiscriminate, heartbreaking whores.

      It’s preposterous no matter which group you apply it to. And you’d think that someone who supposedly understands bigotry would know that he’s doing this. Which means that he’s either an idiot, who doesn’t know he’s being a bigot, or he’s an asshat, who knows, but doesn’t care because he doesn’t think bigotry against anyone but people exactly like himself is a problem.

      Bee is making a mistake that many people opposing GLBT equality make–you are framing the entire question around sex. You are suggesting that a relationship has only one component–the sexual one.

      A relationship is about love, respect, partmership and millions of other things. Sex is just one aspect of it. Bisexuals are no more ruled by their sexual urges than straight or gay people.

      When you are with your partner, are you thinking, “Wow, that barista guy today was hot, I wish I was doing him right now?”

      Likely not. When you are committed to someone and are monogamous, you are fulfilled and don’t need to think about someone else to feel complete. Bisexuality is outside of your understanding so you think it is some alien, incomprehensible mindset, but it isn’t.

      Bisexuals need the same things gay and straight people do–support, love, comfort, security. In the final analysis, Bisexuals aren’t that different from gay men or lesbians.

      Oct 27, 2011 at 12:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JT
      JT [Different person #1 using similar name]

      It seems to me that bisexuals cannot win with the stereotypes applied to them:

      Same-sex partner: The bi is a self-hating closet case who can’t admit the truth. Better to just say you’re gay.

      Opposite-sex partner: Sold out for the “normal” life and is thus dishonest and is probably looking to cheat because the bisexual eternally yearns for that same-sex hookup. Better to claim straightness if you’re monogamous.

      Various gender partners: Slutty bisexual who will sleep with anyone and probably will sleep with everyone.

      Not all bi guys wind up in het relationships. Some do, because, you know, they’re bisexual.

      A lot of bisexual men wind up in same gender relationships, and some just stay single like a lot of people of all orientations do.

      This is called the GLBT community for a reason. We are individuals who are in a minority that does not involve skin color, religion or idealogical differences but rather one that involves who we’re attracted to. Most of us have to deal with coming out, coming to terms with who we really are and yet many of the gay community find it necessary to attack bisexuality.

      I’ve seen various comments about how much easier it is to be bisexual, and while I’m sure for some that is true, it doesn’t make it universally easy to be bi. What I don’t understand or accept is the disdain and prejudice shown by some gay people for people who should be part of the shared community. It’s like you can only win if YOUR pain is the deepest pain and your hardship is the most terrible to bear.

      All this talk of “bisexuals aren’t trustworthy you shouldn’t get into a relationship with a bisexual or date one” and “it’s just a phase they go through on the road to identifying as gay”, not long ago, was “homosexuals aren’t trustworthy and two gay men or two lesbians can’t be monogamous with each other” and “it’s just a phase they go through. They’ll grow out of it and like women soon enough’.

      As for the gay vs. bi debate raging herein. I simply ask how in the hell can we afford to tear each other apart like this. Our enemies would love this, to know that people who have so much in common are laying into each other like this. It’s ridiculous.

      After reading some of these comments, I find it incredible how many people on queerty and seemingly beyond can have such ill, aggressive feelings towards bisexuality.

      From a community that’s had to fight so relentlessly for its own freedom – for its very existence, you don’t have to go far to find that it can also be blatantly intolerant.

      Bisexual men and women are woefully underrepresented in every way, and erased from the GLBT community by gay men and lesbians who are biphobic. Heterosexuals, not fully understanding bisexuality, think that a bisexual person is really gay or lesbian. Homosexuals think that it’s a lie, and that’s its used as a form of protection, or think it makes them superior.

      Just a question, but if it’s okay for a gay man to use generalizations and blatant prejudices in discussing bisexuality; would it then also be okay if a straight man used generalizations and prejudices in discussing homosexuality because some of those are true?

      I’m genuinely appalled when I see victims of prejudice turning around and then being bigoted themselves: we know how much it hurts to be discriminated against, we know the excuses the bigots use to try and cloak their bigotry in respectability so how can we justify doing it to others like how gay men and lesbians do this to bisexual men and women?

      Finally doesn’t the idea that bisexuals aren’t like gay people because they invariably end up in heterosexual couplings contradict the oft-repeated slur that bisexuality is simply a stepping stone to coming out gay? It can’t be both.

      Oct 27, 2011 at 12:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mac
      Mac

      for all the gay people saying it’s just a fact that no gay person would want to date a bisexual person, that bisexuals are just for casual sex not relationship, or that a bisexual person can’t be monogamous with a gay man – you do NOT speak for me or my bisexual male partner! I’m a (Kinsey 6) gay man who is currently in a monogamous relationship with a man who is bisexual and is attracted to people of different genders. this does not threaten me and honestly I’m not sure why it should. if anything, it is flattering that he could have chosen from other men and women. We’ve been together for a decade now, and yes we are monogamous with each other.

      when we were more casually dating and seeing other people, I was also seeing a gay man. ultimately I ended it with the gay man to pursue something more serious with the bisexual man because I found the bisexual man to be more emotionally mature, relationship oriented, and self-aware. The idea that emotional maturity, monogamy, or self-awareness are tied to something innate like your sexual orientation is just not logical. If I would have listened to some of the biphobic advice from some of the gay commenters here, I would have missed out on a relationship that is making me very happy and a partner. It makes me sad that there are gay people out there who would close themselves off to experiences with bisexuals who will bring them great happiness and an excellent relationship and partnership.

      To the biphobic gay people out there – you’re not only offending people with your ignorance and bigotry that you’re showing, you’re also limiting yourselves. It’s in everyone’s (including your own) best interest for you to get over your biphobia.

      Oct 27, 2011 at 3:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tom
      Tom

      My partner and I are both bisexual men and have been out since the late 70s as bisexual. Both of us have had relationships in the past with women and men, and we just both happened to partner with each other. Yes we are monogamous since we both tried open relationships with gay male ex’s of ours and found that we did not like them.

      We’ve met a moderate amount of gay men who are not biphobic but we have also encountered a lot of gay men who are very biphobic and there’s no excuse for it, and yes they should know better. We just write them off as bigoted assholes and have nothing to do with them.

      It is not widely known, but many of the early gay and lesbian groups were actually founded by bisexuals, to use the early word. Indeed, the idea of our annual Pride Festivities including the Rally and March itself now celebrated worldwide by LGBT Communities across the globe was started 40 years ago by the out bi-identified LGBT leader Brenda Howard. Many of those early leaders had to hide their bisexuality due to the profound biphobia of that era.

      The HRC actually did a study about bisexuality and this is what it found:

      Over the last two years, zero grant dollars went toward programs and services specifically dedicated to assisting bisexuals.

      Bisexual adults, teenagers, and young adults are more likely than gay men, lesbians, and transgender people.

      Oct 27, 2011 at 3:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bee
      Bee [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @Scott Tacoma: “When you are with your partner, are you thinking, “Wow, that barista guy today was hot, I wish I was doing him right now?”

      That’s not an apples to apples comparison. A male-female relationship is different and offers different things than a male-male or female-female relationship and I don’t mean in sexual aspects alone. That’s where my point about bisexuals come from. Many never feel satisfied that a mf or mm relationships offers them everything they want, hence the need for both.

      @Stuffed Animal: And I still don’t get the visible bisexuals that everyone is going about. I’m not saying they don’t exist. But most of the visible figures in the LGBT community are either GAY or LESBIAN, which is weird since Bisexuals are supposed to be the majority.

      @BostonMike:I’m sure you are.

      @Kurt: Whaaaaaaaa, take your stupidity somewhere else.

      @Jeff: Maybe you should have read the part I clarified what I meant by 50% before replying like an idiot. Well done I missing what I meant and being a general all-round moron.

      @Estraven: Yeah with majority of them in heterosexual relationships, what a powerful movement that would be.

      Oct 27, 2011 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mac
      Mac [Different person #1 using similar name]

      For all the gay people saying it’s just a fact that no gay person would want to date a bisexual person, that bisexuals are just for casual sex not relationship, or that a bisexual person can’t be monogamous with a gay man – you do NOT speak for me or my bisexual male partner! I’m a (Kinsey 6) gay man who is currently in a monogamous relationship with a man who is bisexual and is attracted to people of different genders. this does not threaten me and honestly I’m not sure why it should. if anything, it is flattering that he could have chosen from other men and women. We’ve been together for a decade now, and yes we are monogamous with each other.

      Oct 27, 2011 at 11:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mac
      Mac [Different person #1 using similar name]

      For all the gay people saying it’s just a fact that no gay person would want to date a bisexual person, that bisexuals are just for casual sex not relationship, or that a bisexual person can’t be monogamous with a gay man – you do NOT speak for me or my bisexual male partner! I’m a (Kinsey 6) gay man who is currently in a monogamous relationship with a man who is bisexual and is attracted to people of different genders. this does not threaten me and honestly I’m not sure why it should. if anything, it is flattering that he could have chosen from other men and women. We’ve been together for a decade now, and yes we are monogamous with each other.

      To the biphobic gay people out there – you’re not only offending people with your ignorance and bigotry that you’re showing, you’re also limiting yourselves. It’s in everyone’s (including your own) best interest for you to get over your biphobia.

      Oct 27, 2011 at 11:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BostonMike
      BostonMike [Different person #2 using similar name]

      Bee I really don’t give a shit what you think about claiming that my relationship with my husband isn’t monogamous.

      I agree with Estraven, your troll ass shouldn’t presume to know everything about every single gay man or bisexual man and woman since you don’t.

      Oct 28, 2011 at 1:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Isaiah
      Isaiah

      I think what is so frustrating is that the discussion of issues like this tears apart any type of solidarity within the GLBTQQA community, and why we are getting work done. I am a male bisexual, and I am very solid in that identity–yes there are some men who say they are bisexual and then change their sexuality…and there is nothing wrong with that. I think what we need to admit here is that YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE, and we need to respect that. EVEN IF someone says they are bi but months/years later come out as something else, instead of “I told you so”, say “OK brother/sister, I love you.” If we just put all of this petty hatred/bashing BS behind us, this community would be something I’d actually want to be a part of.

      Nov 2, 2011 at 9:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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