Bloody hell! Soon after news broke that a Christian group was given the green-light to post anti-gay adverts on center-city buses, London mayor Boris Johnson used his executive power to block the whole cockamamie campaign, reports The Guardian.
The ads, taken out by Core Issues Trust, read: “Not gay! Ex-gay, post-gay and proud. Get over it!” (See above.) Core Issues’ leader, Mike Davies, has been known to make statements like “homoerotic behavior is sinful.”
While ex-gay therapy has taken even another hit recently with the retraction of the only real piece of evidence propping it up, the Guardian writes that the campaign was a response to a pro-gay bus advert campaign:
The campaign is an explicit attempt to hit back at gay rights group Stonewall, which ran its own bus advert saying: “Some people are gay. Get over it.” The Christian groups have used the same black, red and white colour scheme as Stonewall and accuses it of promoting the “false idea that there is indisputable scientific evidence that people are born gay.”
Mayor Johnson said of his decision: “London is one of the most tolerant cities in the world and intolerant of intolerance. It is clearly offensive to suggest that being gay is an illness that someone recovers from and I am not prepared to have that suggestion driven around London on our buses.”
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
london89
Why did TfL even allow this? We all pay them already way too much money every month and now they want to support homophobic propaganda? Imbeciles…
One reason more to switch over to the bike this summer 🙂
Alexi3
Hooray for Mayor Johnson. You know when I was a very young man I just couldn’t believe that people really cared one way or the other about what someone else did in bed. I had never felt particularly oppressed because I was gay. It took some years until I realized that it was only because of the way I happened to look that people had always seemed to accept me and that there are some people who care very much about what others do in bed. I can’t say that I understand why they do anymore than I ever did. I mean, how empty does your own life have to be before this becomes your all consuming concern? But, they are out there and willing to spend a great deal of time, effort and money to peddle their own warped view of things. I think the reason I embraced the liberal cause as a youth was they’re simple yet profound view that they don’t care how someone else lives and only ask that everyone be afforded the same rights and respect to live as they as please and to be who they are as long as they don’t infringe upon the rights of others. The conservative view is that everyone should live a certain way, believe certain things and anyone who diagrees must be forced to change. I applaude the Mayor of London for putting principle before profit.
Graeme Phillips
I am disgusted by the attempts of the gay community and the Hampstead liberal elite to stifle the rights to freedom of speech in others that itself so enjoys. I am a Bible-believing Christian. Get over it! Anyone who cannot accept my life choice and who feels the need to stifle the freedom of expression of myself or my brothers and sisters in Christ is intolerant. I call upon the gay community and the Hampstead liberal elite to exercise more tolerance of people who don’t share its viewpoint.
london89
@Graeme Phillips: Freedom of speech ends where other groups of people or individuals are assaulted or disparaged!
ChrisC
@Graeme Phillips: Your viewpoint is one that has caused an extremely high rate of suicides, murders and other forms of violent attacks; Loss of employment and abandonment by family’s. Such a “viewpoint” does not deserve tolerance. Why should we give tolerance to those who are not only showing us none, but are often subjecting us to a life of inequality and violence?
But you people still have the nerve to get mad at us?! That’s what’s rampant with your kind: No class, No dignity, just total blinded ignorance and a repetitive claim of oppression whenever one decides to say that we’ve had enough of being treated as unequal’s in society and have had enough of teens being subjected to the often lethal torture that is “ex-gay therapy”.
Get lost.
LandStander
@Graeme Phillips: “The right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.”
– Oliver Wendell Holmes
ChrisC
@Graeme Phillips: PS: I have no problem with the fact that you are a “Bible-believing Christian”, I really don’t. But just don’t try and use your unfounded beliefs, which were constructed by an even less founded book, written some 2000 years ago, to regulate the lives of others! Especially since we do not all share your beliefs and therefore should not have to be subjected to them.
Biggiggles
@Graeme Phillips: But the ad doesn’t say something like “I’m a Christian. Get over it!” If it had said that, you’d have a good argument that your freedom of expression is being ‘stifled’. I’m sure gay people, and Brian Johnson, would have had no problem with that, he is Christian himself, after all.
But it doesn’t say anything of the sort.
Instead, it’s talking about how people can move past being gay, which is actually very insidious. It perpetuates the – fairly dangerous – myth that being gay is something ‘wrong’ that needs to be ‘fixed’. That people can somehow ‘move past’ being gay. There’s no credible evidence that people can do that and where teenagers and kids have been pushed into programs that have tried to change their sexual orientation, they invariably fail – making poor gay teens’ lives miserable in the meanwhile and contributing to poor mental health outcomes for LGBT people.
The ‘tolerance’ that you ask for is not the same as the tolerance that gay people want. We just want to live our lives in peace. You already have society’s tolerance to practice your religion. You’re asking for the ‘tolerance’ to attack us and make us feel miserable. It’s a ridiculous analogy. Live and let live, please.
fagburn
@Graeme Phillips: If you believe the Bible you’re either thick or mad, so who cares what you think about anything?
Charlie in Charge
@Graeme Phillips: I think you’re equating tolerance with relativism. One cannot tolerate intolerance. We could tolerate a message that said “Jesus is wonderful.” That message doesn’t in and of itself tear anyone down. When the message is “Jesus is wonderful, being gay is not” there is a problem. Read 1 Corinthians 13.
Evan Mulvihill
@Graeme Phillips: Ooh, Graeme dun got ganged up on!
Sohobod
Boris Johnson is a Conservative politician. How very different he is in tone and substance from those with the same name in the US.
It’s about time America moved into the 20th C, let alone the 21st.
Graeme Phillips
No. 5: – Why should I get lost? The militant gay rights lobby is taking away everyone’s rights. I have as much right to protest about this as you trendy liberals do.
No. 6: – So why is the gay rights lobby trying to curtail the rights of Christians to express their views?
No. 7: – I don’t share the militant gay rights lobby’s beliefs, so why should they be inflicted upon me?
No. 8: – We don’t have the tolerance we desire. Though we aren’t physically persecuted, our trendy liberal society (e.g. the people attacking me in this forum) tries to marginalise people like me for refusing to think what trendy liberals in Hampstead tell me to think. Marginalisation, ridicule etc are all forms of persecution. Just because persecution against Christians is in the legal and intellectual spheres and not yet the physical one, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
No. 9: – Ah, the old line of if-you-don’t-think-what-you-are-told-to-think-you-are-not-intelligent. I have studied to masters level, speak 8 languages fluently etc etc, yet some people think I am unintelligent. I’d like to see how their claims to intelligence trump all of mine.
No. 10: – Read 1Corinthians 13? I know it well. What about Romans 1 (which disproves the liberal elitist myth that only the Old Testament opposes homosexuality)?
No. 11: – I don’t support the argumentum ad populum argument. “Enter in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be who go in there:” In other words, if people think they will receive eternal life simply because they are following the path chosen by most people, they are deluded.
No. 12: – Ah, the fashion argument, i.e. that we should all support homosexuality because it is not fashionable to oppose it.
codyj
gee, Graham, keep your beliefs to yourself…not EVERYONE believes in your magical ‘sky god’…so stop trying to make the world run on your rules.
ChrisC
@Graeme Phillips: LOL! “Imposing” my beliefs upon you? How is having the right to marry the person I love and be treated as an equal “imposing” my beliefs on to you? Am I forcing you to marry someone of the same-sex? It’s called common decency and sense!
“Taking away everyone’s rights”? How so? Have I gotten you discharged from the military, Fired from employment, Barred from marrying the person you love and enjoying the legal benefits of marriage, Inflicted violence on you? No. And if there has been any instance where we have caused someone to lose employment, it was likely because a bigot got fired for being a bigot.
Isn’t it ironic that your kind has been oppressing people for thousands of years, and right when the group of people who is amongst those who your kind has most brutalized, decides to stand up and say that they won’t take it anymore and that they wish to be treated equally, we’re somehow oppressing you! HA! That’s such an oxymoron.
Your nothing more than a beautiful representation of those who are truly a waste of public education. Enjoy being called out on your bullshit and hypocrisy.
PS: What the hell are you doing on a Gay site? Hiding something?
M B Andrews
The bullets are flying, I know, but, even in the cross fire about orientation and marriage, I’d really like to hear a good answer to this serious question.
Is it laudable or ridiculous for someone to change their sexual orientation?
In the story that prompted this firestorm in Australia, we’ve learnt that Christine Forster (the sister of the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott) was married to a bloke for many years. They now have four children. Presumably, she wasn’t forced into the marriage, so I think we can assume that, in one sense, she would have considered herself heterosexual.
But a few years ago, Christine met up with another middle age mum. It was at a school function where both their sons go. Somewhere along the line, she decided to form a relationship with Virginia Edwards. So, presumably, whereas at one point, she considered herself heterosexual, she now realised that she was homosexual.
Fine, I understand that.
What I don’t understand is the vitriol that got poured out in the other sexual-orientation and marriage story that came over the last seven days. It concerns homosexual people who go through a process of reorientation.
I happen to know someone who was mentioned in some of the coverage. His name is Chris. Many years ago, he considered himself gay, and was deeply involved in the Sydney scene.
Then, as he hit his 50s, he realised he wasn’t happy with where he was. He started looking at some very early experiences in his childhood. Things started to change for him.
After many years, he tried dating, and now he’s married to a lovely lady about his age. I’ve only met them twice. But they seem happy. Once the guy was homosexual, and now, I presume, he considers himself heterosexual.
All of which brings me back to the question. Why is it that we should be sending Christine messages of support, while we send Chris messages of scorn?
Your answers are welcome.
ChrisC
@Graeme Phillips: Oh, and by the way, you did nothing but make nonsensical rambling responses to my statement against your idiocy. I want you to feel stupid and defeated now.
Also, I think the likes of David Cameron and others in the conservative party is a testament to the fact that you don’t have to be a liberal to support Gay Rights. Way to make a massive assumption about someone you don’t know.
Furthermore, saying you “oppose” homosexuality is one of the most idiotic things ever. Homosexuality is not a choice and cannot be changed, read some psychological reviews!
I’m also not even going to bother trying to refute your arguments that homosexuality is sinful, since it’s beyond irrelevant. As even if it is a sin, it’s not up to you to save Me. Mind your own offers.
Graeme Phillips
No. 17: – You will never make me feel stupid and defeated. The only person who makes me feel that way is God, knowing that I have broken his laws and what I therefore deserve. David Cameron, unfortunately, sold out to the Liberal Democrats many times to get elected and, to tell the truth, I don’t consider him much of a conservative (note the small “c”). Your argument that someone’s characteristics are legitimate because they are ingrained doesn’t make sense: – what about paedophiles and sadists? Does the ingrained nature of their tendencies make them acceptable? Not on your life. I agree that it is not up to me to save you: – as a Calvinist, I make the argument that only God has the power to work in someone’s heart to bring them to saving repentance. You won’t entertain arguments that homosexuality is unacceptable? Neither will I entertain any arguments that it is.
Chad
@Graeme Phillips: Start tolerating us and we will tolerate you….Our very lives are effected by your religion’s beliefs. And all we do is call BS on you.. You have every right to stand in your chruch and spout hateful comments. But we still have to fear for our lives because of people like you.
ChrisC
@M B Andrews: Ridiculous. Not only is there zero evidence to support the notion that one can change one’s sexual orientation, but there is a mountain of evidence to support the fact that trying to change one’s sexual orientation is an extremely dangerous undertaking. People who try to do so are at an extremely high risk of developing emotional and psychological disorders and being suicidal.
Children and teens are often forced to undergo such “therapy’s” by homophobic parents, with often devastating outcomes. The “therapy” can often include shock therapy and physical punishment. Underage people should not be forced into such barbaric abuse, and by supporting this so-called “ex-gay therapy” we are sending out a message that it is alright to subject them to such abuses.
I’m sure ‘Chris’ is happy in his marriage. The same way that someone who marries a close friend who they are not in love with or sexually attracted to can be happy. Sure it’s not an ideal life, but if they think homosexuality is so wrong, they are willing to tolerate it. But they’re still Gay.
However, by sending messages of support to people like “Christine” we are affirming that homosexuality is not wrong and that we all deserve the right to be equal, happy and love the person we love and not be ashamed or feel the need to “change” be undergoing such barbaric “therapy’s”.
PS: There’s a recently posted article on here about the fact that a highly regarded piece of “science” used by the ex-gay community as “evidence” has now been refuted by it’s own author, attached to the story is the story of a Man who was forced to undergo this “ex-gay therapy” I suggest you read it =) Also, if you want evidence for my claims, a simple wiki search about homosexuality and ex-gay therapy should suffice and or lead you to other articles supporting my claims =)
Graeme Phillips
No. 21: – No worldly psychologists telling me how dangerous the therapy might be are ever going to change my mind on whether or not homosexuality is a practice I am willing to condone. I don’t need to do any Wiki searches, because as far as I am concerned, if the scriptures have answered the implied question unequivocally, there is no need for me to entertain the question any further, irrespective of what some liberal fascists in Hampstead think. If Hampstead trendies want me to discard scriptural teaching in favour of what they consider trendy, they need to first convince me that they are a higher authority than God.
ChrisC
@Graeme Phillips: You just completely lost any shred of credibility that you had when you compared homosexuality to pedophilia.
Homosexuality: A relationship between two consenting adults.
Pedophilia: A sexual assault occurring between a CHILD and an adult.
You cannot compare the two.
Your argument that homosexuality isn’t acceptable is based on a book that was written 2000 years ago by men that claimed god was speaking to them, thought the earth was flat and smoked herbal cigarettes. REAL CREDIBLE. Fool.
If you believe that only god can save people, then I suppose if you ever develop schizophrenia or have a heart attack you will instead just let god take care of it and not consult a doctor? After all you seem to have a complete disregard for what the medical community says. Demonstrated by the fact that you have completely disregarded the fact that the medical community has come to the agreement that homosexuality is not a choice and cannot be changed. If you don’t trust them about something as easily understandable as human sexuality, how can you trust them with your mind or heart?
Run along and talk to your imaginary friend now.
Chad
@Graeme Phillips: It is so tacky of a christian to come onto a gay website spouting your hatred then becoming upset because people don’t agree with you. You are not welcome here.
Graeme Phillips
No. 23: – My mention of paedophilia was not concerned with the question of consent. It was concerned with the question of whether or not ingrained tendencies are acceptable merely because they are ingrained. Strawman. I don’t care what the medical community says about whether or not homosexuality is ingrained, I will not support it. As for the part about how only God can save people, this is another example of a strawman argument. I never said I would not go to a doctor. What I meant is that when human beings achieve saving repentance, they do not achieve it on their own goodness: – the saving repentance only happens if God works in that person’s heart. It seems like you are commenting on something you are severely ignorant of. Look up the 5 points of Calvinism with Google or any good search engine if you are still clueless.
No. 24: – I am not upset because people disagree with me (that is what the militant gay rights lobby does). I am upset by all the souls who have rejected God and will therefore not receive salvation. You say I am not welcome here. I say unless you repent, you will not be welcome in Heaven (Luke 13:5).
Danny
Jesus is gay so using Christianity to condemn gay people is an oxymoron.
Graeme Phillips
No. 26: – prove it.
Chad
@Graeme Phillips: What would make you think that I would want to go to your heaven. As far as “I am upset by all the souls who have rejected God and will therefore not receive salvation” Live your life let others live theirs.
Chris
Romans 1 talks about unnatural and degrading sex acts. Gay sex is completely natural for gay people. Paul puts so much emphasis on sex because he worked himself into a corner. He told people that they didn’t need to obey any laws and when tolerant congregations started popping up and blessing same-sex marriages and hosting orgies he had to come up with reasons why his own ignorant prejudice should apply to other people.
I’m not saying this because I necessarily think Paul is the be-all and end-all of philosophy. Paul thought the world would end in 65 AD and advised people accordingly. I’m saying this to point out that anyone who thinks they can get the truth out of the Bible is in for a hard climb. The Bible is full of contradictions and statements that apply to long past circumstances. Talk to a hundred Biblical literalists and you’ll get a hundred interpretations.
The only people who have a chance of getting actual value out of that book are the people who admit that it’s outdated, contradictory, parochial and frequently just plain wrong. Step away from that and you’re just making things up to feed your ego.
Graeme Phillips
No. 28: – Regarding your comment about letting others live their lives, the militant gay rights lobby should do this as well. Boris Johnson’s refusal to allow the aforementioned advertisement following pressure from the militant homosexual rights lobby shows how unwilling such people are to allow Bible-believing Christians to live as they please. They complain that we force our message down their throats, but they do that in many ways as well, e.g. this bus advertisement campaign. The militant gay rights lobby is clearly one of the forces on this planet that is least happy to let people live their lives as they choose and I view such calls by the militant gay rights lobby as being gross hypocrisy.
You don’t want to go to “my” Heaven (actually, it is God’s)? You will after a short while experiencing what the alternative is. On the Day of Judgement, you will realise that God is not someone you can block out using the “Unfriend”/”Block this user” buttons. Thinking so is a bit like being in court charged with murder and saying, “I don’t believe this court even exists and my presence here on these charges is just a figment of my imagination. The judge here is just some oppressive person trying to stop me living my life as I choose.” Obviously, no judge is going to be impressed if you said something like this in his courtroom.
Codswallop
@Graeme Phillips: No one really cares if you believe that an invisible all-powerful being bibbety-bobbity-booed the Universe into being in 6 days or that later he got a hankering for a bit of “strange” and (amazingly like Leta & The Swan, or Zeus and Ganymede for that matter) decided to knock up a human version. It takes a stunning lack of critical thinking skills to believe such things but that’s entirely your business. But it’s offensive in the extreme to start playing the “victim card” over what a hard lot you poor, poor Christians have after nearly 2,000 years of political and social supremacy.
What really has your panties in wad isn’t that you’re “victims” of anything but that now you’re being prevented from victimizing others in the style and manner you’ve become accustomed. It offends your self-righteous and authoritarian natures that instead of taking your sad and nonsensical pronouncements being taken as literally god’s own truth that people tell you sad twats to go get stuffed, to go count the number of angels on a pin and let the grown-ups talk about reality.
And the truth of that matter is that “ex-gay” therapy and programs are pure, unadulterated BULLSHIT. Even the proponents of such programs now admit they’ve never actually seen a person’s core sexuality change, that the best they’ve been able to affect is denial which is often temporary and comes at great personal cost to the individual. Unlike religion, science really isn’t something one chooses to believe or not. Science is objective reality established by observation and experimentation and, again unlike religion, its results are repeatable time after time. People like you can decide to ignore facts, to comfort yourself with fairy tales instead, but no longer can you inflict them other people through government. And frankly it’s about time someone called you on your centuries old scams, greed, and violence.
And isn’t it rather silly to claim that science doesn’t really know what it’s talking about when you’re responding to an article on your COMPUTER, linked to millions (billion?) of other computers around the world simultaneously, insisting instead that it was a bunch of desert nomads at the tail-end of the Bronze Age who believed the Sun revolved around the Earth (if it wasn’t flat), who had no concept of hygiene or disease prevention and got their drinking water from the same place they dumped their sewage, actually possessed THE “true” knowledge of the Universe’s origins and man’s purpose?
Graeme Phillips
No. 29: – Homosexual sex is natural for homosexuals? Yes, and acts of pederasty are completely “natural” for NAMBLA members, but that doesn’t make it right. I believe in the principle of sola scriptura and it is clear that you don’t. The fact that you feel you have the authority to just interpret away God’s teachings like this (contained in the entire Bible, not just Paul’s writings) shows how little respect you have for God. You think it’s outdated? Ooooh! Vassup! I’m Brüno and I sink zat is soooooooo last season! You clearly have a lot of contempt for God if you think God is going to be won over using the argument that it is ok to ignore his explicit teachings just because you think they are unfashionable. Besides, it is not just Romans 1 that opposes homosexuality. There are plenty of other mentions in both the Old and New Testaments.
Chad
@Graeme Phillips: Just because you believe your religion is true does not make it true. There are religions that have been here longer than christianity. Your threats of hell do not scare me.
As far as the militant gay rights lobby, If the bus had a pro-choice campaign going you christians would be fighting to have that removed. I remember a bus line campaign for atheism, and enough christains called and complained so the buses changed their ads. It goes both ways.
Graeme Phillips
No. 31: – it takes an even bigger lack of critical thinking skills to think that homosexuality is acceptable behaviour merely because it is fashionable to think so. Let the grown ups talk about reality? You are severely deluded if you think you will gain salvation by being fashionable. It is not true to say people in biblical times had no knowledge of hygiene. Look at the Levitical rules on cleanliness. Strawman: – you say I deny science, but I have never done so. You say it is time someone called time on us? I can’t wait for the moment God calls time on this earth and calls to account everyone who has rejected him.
I am not self-righteous for the simple reason that I believe I do not possess the intrinsic goodness necessary for entry into Heaven (I will get in by Jesus’ goodness being imputed to me). I make the argument that I am filthy before God. You guys here are self-righteous because you clearly think you are good people. You seem to be under the view that self-righteousness means thinking something different to what Hampstead trendies tell people to think, when it actually means thinking you are intrinsically good. As I say, I am not intrinsically good and I make no such claims to being so.
Danny
@ Graeme. You said to No. 29 “You clearly have a lot of contempt for God if you think God is going to be won over using the argument that it is ok to ignore his explicit teachings just because you think they are unfashionable.”
The Book of Exodus says working on the Sabbath is punishable by death. So have you been mass murdering people like hospital workers, ministers, police, military, and others who regularly get paid to work on the Sabbath? You are a plain old simpleton hypocrite.
The bible proves itself a simple work of fiction. The founders were all polygamists (Moses, Samuel, Abraham, David, etc.) and slave owners. No real deity would ever support slavery or polygamy; yet the 10th Commandment written by the Xtian deity says not to covet your neighbor’s male slave or female slave. Slavery is immoral. The make-believe Christian religion is immoral.
GreatGatsby2011
@Graeme Phillips: In order to feel contempt for your deity, it would have to exist. Since it doesn’t, I’ll have to save my contempt for the morons who, despite all evidence to the contrary, continue to believe in an imaginary bearded gentleman who wanders around amongst the clouds farting out miracles and shooting flaming snot-rockets to strike down nonbelivers.
Graeme Phillips
No. 33: – My threats of Hell may not scare you, but I know that everything I tell you about God’s message brings you closer and closer to a point where, come the last day, you will have no excuse for not repenting. I have done my duty by merely telling you.
I don’t care how long religions have been around. Prostitution is famously the world’s oldest occupation, but it is not one I condone, so the age argument holds no water with me.
As for the militant atheism campaign, it was not removed under Christian pressure. As I recall, the Advertising Standards Agency decided to stop entertaining complaints about it because it did not care for the feelings of Christians or for God.
Danny, you are a complete idiot who does not even know the scriptures. As you know, Jesus was caught picking wheat on the Sabbath and he explained about David’s consumption of the holy bread from the Temple and how sometimes laws have to be subverted in emergency situations, e.g. with hospital workers. Try reading the scriptures properly before you challenge me about them. Christianity is not immoral, but there are plenty of other things that are.
GreatGatsby2011, you do that and see where it gets you after your life has ended. As you know, we will all die one day.
Anyway, it’s late and so I’ll have to continue posting after I have finished Friday’s work.
Chad
@Graeme Phillips: Look at the Levitical rules on cleanliness. Doesnt leviticus say a mensturating woman is unclean for 7 days and on the 8th day she is to take two turtledoves or two pigeons to a priest for sacrifice to be considered clean. Yeah they knew a lot about hygiens
GreatGatsby2011
@Graeme Phillips: I wish I could say “I can’t wait to have the last laugh” but, since neither one of us will exist after our deaths, there will be no last laughs. Alas.
Chad
@Graeme Phillips: because it did not care for the feelings of Christians or for God.
My case in point. If it doesn’t kiss the a$$ of christians It has to go.
Danny
@Graeme I noticed you couldn’t defend Christian polygamy or slavery because you know perfectly well that Christianity is immoral, founded by polygamist slave owners. The people who compiled, wrote and edited the torah/bible/koran were idiots – immoral idiots from a simplistic desert culture.
Chris
@Graeme Phillips: Well that’s interesting. I could spend a couple of hours going over the Bible’s rather iffy positions on homosexuality in both the Old and New Testaments, not to mention its very iffy positions on pedophilia. But what intrigues me is the idea that God has to be won over by my argument before I get into heaven–something I am quite prepared to do in the unlikely event it comes to that, by the way.
The vast majority of Christian sects believe in the doctrine of salvation by grace–i.e., God really doesn’t give a damn if I got his book right or not so long I believe in him. The Old Testament is all about salvation by sanctification–follow the rules, no matter how strange or unfair, and you get rewarded. A good proportion of the New Testament writers believed this as well at least before the “no contradictions!” people started hacking them up.
But Graeme seems to be a Gnostic, i.e. a heretical Christian who probably doesn’t even know his own church’s stance on the matter. He preaches salvation by knowledge. If you know the answers then you can follow the mystic rules and outsmart the demons and get into the higher planes. Logic and biology and sound science are irrelevant because it’s all supernatural anyhow.
It’s kind of embarrassing to argue theology with someone who professes a position that inspired his heroes to burn people at the stake. I’ll see you all in the pleroma.
Lumi Bast (@nugoyxi)
This is a good thing, thank you!
Homosexuality is not a choice and can not be changed, statements like this shouldn’t be allowed in public advertisements.
Lumi Bast (@nugoyxi)
@ Graeme Phillips
The Christian Bible is false, it was made up with the intent to control your mind. Your God isn’t real.
Danny
The funniest and most-disturbing thing is when straight people talk about Sodom and Gomorrah and completely forget to mention that the so-called heros of the story “Lott and his daughters” who are blseed by the Christian God for their godliness commit incest with each other! What a sick, immoral religion!
Codswallop
Yes, god forbid (apparently literally) that we adapt our thinking to new knowledge instead of insisting that ideas are worthy merely because they’re OLD.
The truth of the matter is there has never been a human civilization where homosexuality didn’t exist, something we know from the art, myths, records, laws, and even the graffiti they left behind. It’s quite literally a fact of life, part of the human condition, and pre-dates the religions that currently condemn it. Religious leaders and adherents’ opinions about homosexuality have all the meaning and consequence of their opinions about left-handedness, which is to say NONE. Homosexuality hasn’t gone away despite centuries of disapproval backed up by murder and torture and it’s certainly not going to go away because to make a bunch of navel-gazing religious obsessives (a condition that can be treated with anti-depressants, BTW) happy.
And why SHOULD gay people deny their innate sexuality if it it’s between consenting adults? To satisfy the specious “moral standards” of heterosexuals who marry multiple times, cheat on their spouses like mad, basically do whatever the fuck they want in direct opposition to the Biblical rules that apply to their own conduct while insisting that the few mentions of homosexuality are the real deal, what the whole fucking book is really about? Is that what you expect? Well fuck that, and fuck you. Mind your own patch, you nattering god-botherer, and shove your Bible up your ass.
Dr. Dick
Wow that was 100% pure, uncut Colombian TROLLING, fresh off the kilo
GreatGatsby2011
@Codswallop: I just gave you a one-person standing ovation, good sir.
Martin
Let the christian burn in the Hell he has set up for himself inside his head! Let him tremble and feel insignifacant before his own mentally created god. What do we care. He is hell bent on drying up the sources that give vitality to life.
By all means let him live his life in agony of hate and fear. Cheer up everyone else. Gay rights are coming and recognition is widening by an incredible pace in all countries that matter…
Martin
@Dr. Dick: LOL! So true!!
iDavid
The Bible really isn’t the point here Graeme Phillips. The point is you are an obnoxious asshole that is bothering the nature of humanity and you are being legally shut down. And rightly so. Now go “pray away” all your anger at not being able to control nature and then take a cold shower. Maybe in the process you will realize what a jackass you are and start making sense of reality. Cuz at this point, your just a woowoo voodoo wack job that is being ousted by the general public as a scamming illogical nonsensical maniacal twerp.
tallskin2
Folks,
There is no sky god. Get over it.
tallskin2
As people far wiser than me have (repeatedly) pointed out, there are people dying of hunger in the world, people are suffering due to the rich ripping off the poor, and indeed christians themselves are being persecuted around the world, churches are being burnt.
Yet, and yet, some christians like Mrs Graeme Philips, have a bee in their frilly knickers about what gay men do with their friends in bed. I think someone is obsessing about the wrong things
Don’t you?
TomMc
@Graeme Phillips: Where in the UK do you live? Does “Freedon of Speech” where you are mean the same as it does in the United States?
?
Get some red tape or paint and cover up the “NOT GAY! EX-GAY, POST-” part of it
robert in nyc
@Graeme Phillips: Well, spreading lies and misinformation about gay people, (bearing false witness against one’s neighbor, ergo gay people) implying that one’s innate orientation can be prayed away is absolutely unproven. There is no such thing as a gay cure and has been debunked by numerous international psychiatric organisations. Nobody chooses their orientation unlike religious people who choose and cherry pick from the bible what to believe and who do not come into this world that way. It would be a different argument if these christian right wingers could provide the factual evidence to prove their claims. It’s tantamount to them saying that allowing equal civil marriage would herald polygamy as the Coalition for Marriage (C4M) asserts. Where is the evidence after same-sex marriage was legalized in Holland eleven years ago? Where are all these other forms or relationships that C4M purports would surface, you know the ones involving bestiality and incest. Isn’t C4M aware that such relationships are illegal in every country and rightfully so and would NEVER become law? Who is demanding them I wonder? Aren’t you aware that polygamy is an uniquely heterosexual phenomenon. Just look at the old testament…Solomon alone had 300 wives, not including concubines. Adam & Eve’s children must have committed incest to have populated the planet, all uniquely heterosexual behavior. Do you know what the real threat to marriage is? I’ll tell you. Heterosexual serial adulterers and their serial divorces. Why not find a cure for that?
JO
Graeme Phillips, you’re truly a sad individual. You believe in fairytales,
Graeme Phillips
Right, I’m back online now. I could spend ages refuting every single comment here, but No. 42 (Chris) has put forward some very big doctrinal errors that need to be corrected. I could respond to everyone’s posting, but the more I do this, the more I will distract from my attempts to address the really important matter here. The other comments seem to be just silly huffing and puffing.
Firstly, I do not preach salvation by knowledge. I preach salvation by grace (i.e. unearned favour) alone (“Sola gratia Deo)”. Chris, I am glad you have heard of grace, but you have badly misunderstood it.
To crystallise the whole of biblical doctrine into a few sentences, for someone to be saved, that person needs to come before God, acknowledge that they are a wicked sinner who is disgusting to him who deserves nothing less than eternity in Hell (Luke 18:9-14 and Romans 3:23). It is no good coming before God and saying, “I reckon I deserve to enter Heaven because I have been a good person who has been open-minded towards the diversity of people in life”.
The said people must also acknowledge, one way or another, that their debts with God are so huge that there is absolutely no way they can pay them off (Matthew 18:21-35). It is no good coming before God and saying, “I’ve done a few bad things here and there, but I’m not worried, because I can do a little bit of work to pay off my insignificant debt”.
The said people must also acknowledge, one way or another, that Jesus’ suffering on the cross of Calvary is the only way their debts can be paid off (Isaiah 53, John 14:6 and Acts 8).
You fail to understand the true meaning of grace. I will compare it to an earthly legal system.
Imagine you are in court facing a long jail sentence unless you pay off your debts. In pre-sentence remarks, you say, “I reckon I should go free because I’m ok, I’ve done a few silly things, but I’m not that bad”, what sort of judge would the judge be if he let you get off scot-free? He would not be a very good judge or a very just one. This appears to be what you believe grace to be and you are wrong.
Grace is when you are before the judge and you know the judge is within his rights to give you a whole-life term unless you pay off your debts and you have absolutely no way of paying the amount of money the judge is demanding. But just at that moment, someone walks into the courtroom and deposits on the judge’s desk the full amount that the judge is demanding of you on your behalf, meaning that you are free to leave the courtroom right there and then. This is grace, because the person who has walked into the courtroom and paid off your debts has given you a gift you haven’t earned. It is the same with salvation: – God lets us in even though we don’t deserve it.
You need to appreciate that God is both loving and holy. He is holy and therefore cannot tolerate any sin at all: – all sin must be punished. However, he is loving in that he has given us a way to get into Heaven by sending someone (i.e. Jesus) to suffer the punishment we deserve, so that the stain of our sins is removed and we can enter Heaven.
As a side point, when it comes to burnings at the stake, I must point out that Queen Mary, a Roman Catholic, was responsible for far more burnings than any other English monarch. She (and indeed many other English monarchs) persecuted many important driving the Reformation, which I am a supporter of, being a reformed baptist.
If you have any genuine questions about the scriptures (it is clear that you have a lot to learn), I am more than happy to answer them. If I can’t, I am willing to ask someone else who can clarify the matter.
As mentioned earlier, regarding everyone else who has posted since my last posting, I have decided not to answer the other posts since my last post, as additional answers will distract from the matter I am attempting to explain.
iDavid
Dude just wake up, we just ain’t buying your drivel. Noone here needs to be saved by freaks like you now buggy off. Everyone is already saved as we are all eternal beings from our souls birth, so stick a sock in it. If you think instilling judgement and fear in people is saving, you got it ass backwards. Now take your milk box and take a frickin hike.
GreatGatsby2011
@Graeme Phillips: I’ll never understand why people continue to worship a deity that is complete and utter ass. The deity you describe sounds like a petulant child. Stomping his feet and throwing a temper tantrum if one of his creations has the “audacity” to question his completely arbitrary rules. And then, when the creation refuses to apologize for transgressing these completely arbitrary rules, it is grounded for all eternity in a fiery pit. Even if your deity did exist it’s clear he’s more deserving of a spanking than praise.
And the fact that you use a debtor’s prison analogy to explain your “grace” is hilarious since most civilized societies (including th UK) have abolished debtor’s prisons as barbaric and ultimately useless. Fascinating how humanity has evolved beyond your deity. Well, not fascinating at all really since the bible is nothing more than a fairy tale written by man several thousand years ago and appended a couple thousand years ago.
Chad
If you ignore it, it will go away.
Joe
Graeme? Is it true that if you use the internets on Sundays sky god will electrocute you dead?
Graeme Phillips
No. 57: – You are severely wrong. The Bible doesn’t support universalism (i.e. the belief that everyone will be saved) as made clear in Matthew 7:13, Luke 13:24 and so many other places. If you don’t like my message, don’t bother participating in this conversation. I relish every opportunity God gives me to spread his message and you are seriously deluded if you think I will desist at the request of a silly trendy like you.
No. 58: – God’s anger is not the anger of some silly child, it is righteous anger. If you think God is at all bothered about fashion (regarding your comment about debtors’ prisons), you are mistaken. Why on earth would a 100% holy God need to concern himself with what a bunch of self-important trendies in Hampstead and San Francisco think?
I was reading recently about Louis J. Marinelli, who says he converted to the pro-gay marriage stance after volunteering for a campaign against it and seeing how “nice” homosexuals are. I must say that given the comments I have received in this forum, homosexuals don’t appear to be very “nice”: – they appear to be a very mean, spiteful and hateful group of people. Does anyone want to prove me wrong by behaving respectfully to me and my beliefs?
GreatGatsby2011
@Graeme Phillips: Why on earth should we show you ANY respect when you come on to OUR blog with your “If you don’t stop your sinful behavior and repent to my deity then you will all be going to hell” garbage??? You are more than welcome to believe whatever codswallop you care to believe, and express those beliefs to your hearts content. But don’t get pissy when you find that your ridiculous beliefs aren’t welcome and we use our freedom of speech to express how asinine your belief system is. I don’t want your respect. The respect of a lunatic means holds no weight for me. All I want is equal treatment under the law and not to be harassed by mad men that expect me to live MY life within the confines of their fairy tales.
E
“Introduce a fascist to the arguments. If he fails to understand, introduce his head to the pavement.” Substitute fascist for bible-thumping cretin (if that’s even necessary,) and you’re cooking with gas.
Gay cure “therapy” is a scam that kills vulnerable youngsters. Boris “they’ll be marrying animals next” Johnson is a twat of epic proportions, but I don’t really care about his motivations on this one.
xtopep
Could Graeme please piss off to another website to lecture other Christians about what sola scriptura really means, the metaphysics of salvation and how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin?
And could he also try out some therapy to convert to homosexuality. I’d be a little more interested in hearing about that from him.
Graeme Phillips
No. 62: – You don’t seem to realise that I don’t give a monkeys if what I have to say is not welcome among the trendies here. I am preaching the Gospel under the instructions of God and it will take much better men than you to silence me. I am not getting “pissy” about the lack of enthusiasm of some people here: – I know very well that the people reading my comments are having their knowledge increased so that come the Day of Judgement, it is more likely that they will stand before God their judge and have absolutely no excuse for not repenting, which is just as worthy an aim as being instrumental in leading someone to salvation. As I have probably said before, if 100,000 people slag me off (like the supposedly “nice” homosexuals here) and spend eternity in Hell anyway and only one person comes to salvation, it makes it all worthwhile.
No. 63: – Clearly, you are a sadist as well as a homosexual. I love the way the internet gives me the chance to preach the Gospel, but avoid meeting people as horrible as you face-to-face. I must say, you almost succeed in making Hitler look like a peaceful person, given your strong desire to carry out acts of wanton and gratuitous violence to people who openly don’t share your views.
No. 64: – Therapy to convert to homosexuality? I love God and his commandments far too much to scorn him by doing this.
I must say, as a result of the horrible people I am meeting in this forum who are clearly fantasising about committing acts of violence against me, my opinion of homosexuals is going even further downhill. It is clear that homosexuals are not “nice”, as portrayed by Louis J. Marinelli. I am even less happy to just let homosexuals be, given that many of them seem to be in danger of carrying out such horrific acts.
Chad
@Graeme Phillips: If you kick a dog in the face would you expect it to treat you nicely? Seriously you come in here offend everyone then wonder why we are hateful in return.
tarxien
@graeme phillips
Two questions for the troll
1)Please tell me where in your bible Jesus Christ mentions homosexuality
2) Are you now or have you ever worn mixed fibres?
You see, Graeme, like so many bigots you get your Old Testament and your New Testament confused.
tarxien
This is the original Stonewall advert, currently on 1,000 London buses.
[IMG]http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd181/yellow_lounge/stonewallbus_2192088b-1.jpg[/IMG]
Graeme Phillips
No. 66: – Evangelistic activities are anything but a kick in the face. They are an act of love. If I didn’t care about the souls of the unsaved, I would simply keep quiet about the Gospel message.
No. 67: – Regarding question number one, the apparent premise of it is that unless Jesus explicitly reaffirms every single law, it is no longer binding, which is a silly premise. Jesus didn’t explicitly and specifically condemn acts of mass genocide as far as I know: – does that make them ok?
Regarding question number two, I get asked this question by a lot of people who are ignorant about the Gospel. There are many Old Testament teachings whose purpose was temporary, but was more importantly a symbol of a Christian principle. In Deuteronomy 25:4, there is a rule prohibiting the Israelites from muzzling oxen while they are treading out the grain. However, this is referred back to in 1Corinthians 9:9-10, where it asks rhetorically whether or not it is oxen that God is really concerned about. The passage then explains that this teaching is there to give instruction in a spiritual principle, i.e. that when people do work to promulgate the Gospel, they should not be hindered. When it comes to wearing clothes made of different fibres, the teaching behind this concerns what is known as “biblical separation”, i.e. that Christians need to separate themselves from people who reject God. They must not be intertwined with non-believers in the same way as different fibres intertwined in a fabric. As a side matter, Old Testament people didn’t have washing machines to carefully wash delicate fabrics the way we do. If you don’t wash mixed fabrics properly, they will expand and contract at different rates, which puts a strain on the garments and causes them to wear out more quickly.
Despite the liberal elitist use of slur words like “bigot”, we Bible believers are not as ignorant of biblical teaching as some people like to portray us as.
fagburn
@Graeme Phillips: Do you like the bits in the Bible where it tells you to eat shit? Kings 18:27.
Or the bit where it tells you to boil your children? II Kings 6:28-29
I could go on, but I’m not big on genocide or child rape.
Still, you were saying you see the holly bibble as your moral compass…
Chad
@Graeme Phillips: You are the very reason many people have NO RESPECT for christians or religion. You are not showing “love” you are prostelytizing. You want to conform everyone to your way of thinking. If you want to show love go volunteer at a charity, visit some sick people in the hospital or nursing home. Coming into a gay blog site and telling everyone we are all sinners and you are the moral compass does nothing to support your cause it only weakens it.
Graeme Phillips
No. 70: – Shame how you can’t even spell. I could spend hours answering silly questions asked by people who haven’t bothered to read the Bible properly. It is of no profit to the Gospel if I spend hours answering silly questions by people with evil intent who pick out passages (often out of context) and distort them. The best I can recommend is that you read the Bible through and read it properly.
2 Kings 18:27 (not 1 Kings) is not an instruction to eat faeces. It is a rhetorical question spoken in the midst of a siege (the siege is mentioned in verse 9).
As for 2 Kings 6:28-29, if you look at verse 30, you will see that this passage clearly does not condone the practice, given that the king rent his clothes and wore sackcloth, which is what people in Old Testament times very famously did to show their sorrow.
See? Objections to biblical teaching from trendy liberals are easy to answer when you know how.
Chad
Many people do not read their bible because they have put it to better use, as toilet paper.
Graeme Phillips
No. 71: – Acts of evangelism/proselytism are acts of love: – you tell people what they need to do to receive salvation in the hope that they will repent and be saved. If I didn’t have compassion for the people reading postings in this forum, I wouldn’t bother evangelising. The most hateful act of all would be to come here and tell everyone that they are good people and that they are in good standing before God, because people would probably become even more complacent, not repent and ultimately spend eternity in Hell.
Yes, I like to do things to help provide for people’s material needs and I have done so on several occasions. However, if I give a homeless man some food, I only prolong his life for a day or so. If I give him the Gospel message and he repents and believes, I am instrumental in prolonging his life forever in Heaven. Acts of evangelism are therefore the bigger priority to me.
Regarding your criticism of me telling people that they are sinners, do you believe yourself to be a good person who is worthy of entry into Heaven?
Graeme Phillips
No. 73: – I would not like to be in the position of such people on the Day of Judgement.
Geri
@M B Andrews: Christine Forster is probably bisexual, and regardless your apparent assumptions about her sexuality are ridiculously narrow-minded and ignorant.
Graeme Phillips
No. 76: – Bisexuality and homosexuality are both bad in my book.
Chad
How sweet, eternal life in heaven, kiss god’s a$$ forever and ever. besides wasn’t judgement day supposed to be may 21 looks like a no show.
fagburn
@Graeme Phillips: How often do you secretly dream of sucking a huge big cock – just out of interest.
We’ll have such a party when you come out – DM me, dude.
tarxien
So now we come back to the question “What would Jesus do”. I doubt if passing a starving man he would give him a lecture on how sinful he is. I think Jesus would have given him some food.
Graeme Phillips
Okay.
Sorry dudes.
I love the penii.
That whole thing earlier was just bluster.
Yum!
Chad
this loon, Graeme, has reaffirmed my lack of faith in humanity. Im through with this conversation but I would like to add, Just because you believe your religion to be true doesn’t make it true.
fagburn
@fagburn: You still haven’t answered this. 🙁
london89
ahahaahaha, sorry i can only love about the christian troll! really funny, to read these comments!
how people people really waste their whole life thinking about hell or eternity in heaven. start living your life on earth – it’s the only life you’ve got.
and i’m really glad that you belong to a fundamental minority! a minority that has no future, because the world gets more open and tolerant every day. not because god leads it that way, but because many people fight for more equality every day and i’m very thankful for them.
ah and thank you for your inspiration. i think you finally convinced me that “the negative influence of religions in relation to tolerance and equality in the world” is a good topic for my upcoming bachelor thesis. i still got some time until then, but i never had an idea about a topic, but this one seems to be very interesting.
london89
mistake in the comment above:
ahahaahaha, sorry i can only love about the christian troll! really funny, to read these comments!
it has to be LAUGH not LOVE!
sorry, too early in the morning.
Graeme Phillips
No. 77: – Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 both correct the nonsense promulgated by unsound preachers who think they know when the Day of Judgement is. These two passages state that only God knows the hour when Jesus will come again.
No. 78: – Under what authority do you feel able to tell me what Jesus would have done? You have professed that you hate him and his word, so I contend that you have no authority to say this. Anyway, Jesus would have done both. In John 4:14-15, he received a drink of water from a woman at a well and told her that his water would quench people’s thirsts permanently. I find it strange the way liberals who don’t believe biblical teaching or even know it somehow feel they have the authority to give instruction on what the Bible says.
No. 79: – A rubbish attempt to impersonate me.
No. 80: – I am glad you have a lack of faith in humanity, as no man can give you salvation. Put your faith in God instead.
No. 81: – I answer questions as, when and how I am inclined.
No. 82: – This is entirely what the Bible said would happen. Faithful followers would gradually dwindle and there would be a faithful few at the end. But you are stupid if you think I am going to just go with the crowd (i.e. the argumentum ad populum line). The crowd cannot save me on the Day of Judgement, but Jesus’ atoning death at Calvary can. The multitude can take away my earthly body, but they can’t send me to Hell. Perhaps it is time for people like yourself to stand up and be an individual, i.e. ignoring the question of what is considered trendy.
Geri
@Graeme Phillips: You don’t say? Well there’s a revelation.
And there was me thinking you were really just worried about everyone going homo and no more kids being born.
Graeme Phillips
No. 86: – Both those things concern me.
Geri
@Graeme Phillips: Exactly. You are “concerned” ( I would say fearful ) that you might succumb to temptation and be seduced by the sin of homosexuality.
Some try to claim that bisexuality in humans doesn’t really exist. But of course it does – very much so. If it didn’t then by now everyone would have just got used to the idea that people are quite simply either heterosexual or homosexual and there is nothing at all that can be done about it.
And then therefore homophobia, if it existed at all, would be quite different in character. I guess it would be somewhat more akin to racism. After all even the most rabid white supremacist doesn’t try to turn black people white. Because that would be totally ridiculous.
xtopep
64- “Clearly, you are a sadist as well as a homosexual. I love the way the internet gives me the chance to preach the Gospel, but avoid meeting people as horrible as you face-to-face. I must say, you almost succeed in making Hitler look like a peaceful person, given your strong desire to carry out acts of wanton and gratuitous violence to people who openly don’t share your views.”
Sorry, Graeme, I mistook you for a rational person. But thanks for the Christian love.
Now please leave.
tallskin2
Usually we have to fight off gays who call themselves christians and who plead offence at our justifiable criticism of christianity, when we say it’s inherently homophobic.
Yet, with this thread and this homophobic straight christian wanker and suddenly these offended gay christians are no-where to be seen.
where are you guys? Why aren’t you arguing with this utter tosser?
ron
It’s not worth the time or effort to argue with someone who is so delusional and out of their minds. You can’t argue with a lunatic. They think the sky is green and no matter how you scream it’s blue, they still see green. Fuck him! He’s probably sitting at home jerking off to all this.
iDavid
#89
Because the koolaide runs so deep in his bones, he is not able to access rational thought. So like an insane person, you silence them the best way possible, by ignoring them.
This dying dinosaur has not learned that his passage to heaven is through his innocence, not his guilt, which he deifies. And he is recalcitrant to learn.
Mark 10:15 “I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” When we have recalcitrant children who demonize others, silence is their reparative therapy, as is their loss of heaven through their guilty acts.
You don’t teach by engaging them verbally, they are far to arrogant for such. They only teach themselves, and in so doing miss the whole point.
GreatGatsby2011
@Graeme Phillips: This used to be fun. I little like poking a dangerous, yet incredibly stupid, animal with a stick and dodging out of the way before it can bite. But now your responses are repetative, slow, and just plain boring. As you stated above the “true blievers” of you deity are becoming fewer. For your sake, I hope that means that means your “Judgment Day” is coming close. But, as we’ve learned from history, it likely means your archaic bilief system is on its way out the proverbial door and the human species will be the better for it. Enjoy the life of judgment and hatred you’ve created for yourself. When you die and realize this life is all you ever had, and you did nothing with it but propagate lies, fear, and hatred wrapped up in pretty bow called “Christian Love” maybe then you’ll get it. Until then, practice your proselytizing, as I’m sure inflamatory language such as “lefty” “trendy” “fashionable” when describing another person’s system of belief is not going to bring them any closer to repenting and worshipping your deity as opposed to the hundreds of other perfectly good deity choices out there. On your day of judgment won’t you be judged on the souls that you turned away from Christianity? Isn’t that a big thing in your book?
Graeme Phillips
No. 88: – I make no claim that all sorts of perversions from what God considers acceptable (e.g. homosexuality, bisexuality etc) don’t happen.
No. 89: – If you don’t like this conversation, don’t bother partaking in it. Anyway, God will be much more in-your-face on the Day of Judgement: – it won’t be like Facebook where you can just click “Unfriend” or “Block this user” if someone is saying something you don’t like.
No. 90: – I’m homophobic? Thanks for the compliment! 🙂
No. 91: – It’s not worth arguing with me? Then why are you bothering to post in this discussion?
No. 92: – Recalcitrant to learn? You bet I am if the things people are trying to teach me are of Satan. Anyway, it’s not as if anyone here has been receiving the call to repentance as a little child. People here are too full of themselves and too self-righteous to believe that they are sinners in the hands of and angry God and therefore choose instead to believe that they are wholesome because they are in good standing with the liberal elite. I instead argue that I am a wretched sinner who would have no place in Heaven were it not for Jesus’ atoning death at Calvary.
No. 93: – When I face God on the Day of Judgement, I will have a plethora of sins to give an answer for. However, preaching to homosexuals that they are sinners in need of repentance and a Saviour living a deviant lifestyle that is offensive to God is not among the things God will call me to account for. God will certainly call me to account for all the souls who I failed to preach the Gospel to, but he will not call me to account for accurate preaching about what people need to do to receive salvation. It seems you are a Brüno character who is only concerned about being fashionable: – when you are called before God on the last day, the need to appear fashionable amongst others will seem so unimportant. Mark these words.
ron
@Graeme Phillips: You must be a really fun date!
pierre
@Graeme Phillips: What a joyless, dry, humorless drone you are!!
iDavid
God not only condones all concensual sex, God also promotes it for the good of humanity. In this God is truly pleased.
iDavid
@Pierre
Exactly. When one understands that the basis of Christianity is to “suffer you pathetic sinful schmuck” at this faux “God’s” hands, it makes sense why they are jealous of anyone other than themselves that lead awesome lives, hence they try to drag everyone else sown into their pit of despair.
Graeme Phillips
No. 95: – Yes, to the right sort of person. If you want someone to tickle your ears, scratch your back and tell you that you are wonderful regardless of how despicable your lifestyle is, I probably wouldn’t be the person for you even if I were a homosexual.
No. 96: – The things of God are no laughing matter, but just see me in a different situation.
No. 97: – Under what authority do you say that?
No. 98: – Me? Jealous of you and your position in Hell (assuming you don’t repent later)? Not on your life. If you don’t like the fact that the Bible doesn’t tickle people’s ears, scratch their backs and tell them they are wonderful, tough luck. The liberal elite tells you what you want to hear, we tell you the truth.
E
You spout self-deluded hogwash. You wouldn’t know the truth of it shagged your gran.
Graeme Phillips
No. 100: – I would say the same about the other posters here, though with less crude language, as I don’t want to descend to the level of the gay community.
E
Nor do you want to provide any evidence for your fanciful claims, plumping for “it says so in the bible, and I really, really want to believe it!”
Graeme Phillips
No. 102: – The Bible is all the evidence you need. If you bother to read it properly and with an open heart, you will see no need for more evidence.
E
There is always need for more evidence, otherwise, it’s not evidence, it’s dogma. And by “read it with an open heart” you clearly mean “suspend your critical faculties entirely.” I won’t do that. I like a world that’s subject to change, where there are no absolutes. I certainly don’t want to rely on the morally bankrupt ramblings of some men that may or may not have existed to inform my view of the world.
Graeme Phillips
What I mean is read it and see how it all fits together. Don’t read it thinking, “I’m so progressive and I am so knowledgeable that I know better than God how things should be”.
I have no taste for relative morality, where people can’t think and simply go with the crowd. And anyway, I am sure you wouldn’t support changes in morality if it meant that the majority of the populace adopted the view that homosexuality should be a capital offence.
You think the men of the Bible are bankrupt? Look at yourself! Homosexuality is an absolutely disgusting act and such acts disqualify the said people from lecturing anyone else about morality! What’s next? Is Anders Breivik going to become the moral focus for the world?
E
I have read it. There is no independent, objective evidence to support pretty much anything in it, so why should I believe it is anything other than a crass means of social control for the credulous, the weak and the stupid, such as yourself?
Many people around the world do support capital punishment for homosexuals. Many more don’t. Morality, much like culture, has been in constant flux down the centuries, so your rather laboured point regarding moral relativism is moot, as there has never been some static, universal morality, anywhere, ever.
As for me being disqualified from commenting on morality due to my perversion, you draw this conclusion from your belief in the bible, which is, as discussed, a load of old shite.
fagburn
Reading these comments made me glad to be alive.
Well done all.
x
london89
“If you want someone to tickle your ears, scratch your back and tell you that you are wonderful regardless of how despicable your lifestyle is, I probably wouldn’t be the person for you even if I were a homosexual.”
If you have nobody to do all this, you must be a really lonely person. And it has absolutely NOTHING to do with a “trendy liberal elite” that you are calling later on.
All the things you named describe LOVE. The one thing which your religion should be based on.
And I try to tell the people around me as often as possible how wonderful they are. They are not perfect, everybody has its own mistakes. But they are wonderful people who touch my heart and they are wonderful because everybody got its own weaknesses.
Your attitude makes me really sad. You’re the kind of person who is never contented with other people. I work with children between the age of 5 and 12, many of my colleagues have the same attitude as you. They are never fully satisfied with their students results. I try to tell my kids as often as possible that each one is really wonderful. Not because I lie to them, no, I see their beautiful and wonderful sides. Maybe you should start seeing this in people’s life. It makes you happy and everyone else as well.
iDavid
This is what cults do to people. They drain all sense of humanity and replace with pavlovian attack control fantasy features. Follow and rule the world and go to “heaven” by attack through subterfuge. Sad how it takes a toll on the mass consciousness.
I am glad others can peak in on this man’s religious psychosis. It helps others come to the solid rational conclusion that following such deviant and destructive thought systems are clearly devastating to a life. This man’s thinking and those who subscribe are nothing short of clinically insane.
Graeme Phillips
I must say, I have been getting some very abusive comments in response to my message here, lol. Loads of people go round saying that gays are “nice”, but anyone who wants to see the real side of the gay community should come here, lol. I thank everyone here for vindicating my view of how depraved and degenerate homosexuals are.
No. 106: – The fact that morality has been in flux throughout human history shows the pointlessness of depending on what “most people” think for one’s moral standards. I am quite sure certain people here would not support “most people” if “most people decided that homosexuality should be a capital offence again. This is why I advise putting one’s trust in a surer foundation. Maybe you read through the Bible, but I reckon you just read through it as though it were a trashy novel, skipping over points you knew would vindicate it and concentrating on ones liberal elitists would find unfashionable, not bothering to join the dots up. If people round here knew the teachings of the Bible, they would not be asking me such daft theological questions that can be easily refuted by pointing to other parts of the scriptures.
No. 107: – I hope these comments will also cause you to remain alive in the hereafter as a result of repentance.
No. 108: – You have gotten some things very confused and you are using the strawman tactic. We are not in the business of telling people not to concentrate on others’ strengths. As you know from Sermon on the Mount, we are told not to concentrate on others’ weaknesses and ignore our own. The converse of that is that we need to look for the good in others before ourselves.
However, we would really be cheating people if we told them that they have enough intrinsic righteousness to enter Heaven. If we hated people, we would lead them astray, i.e. by giving them illusions about their righteousness so that they go before God and say, “Hey, I’m a good person, I’m tolerant and I’m in good standing with the liberal elite, I should get into Heaven”. However, as I keep explaining, God doesn’t work that way: – the people who will not get into Heaven are the people who say, “I think I’m good enough to get in, how dare anyone suggest otherwise!” However, the people who say “I deserve eternity in Hell, but I pray that you will show me mercy and I recognise that Jesus’ death on the cross is the only way I can be cleaned up for entry into Heaven”. Telling people things that lead them away from Heaven and towards Hell is the ultimate act of hatred, but telling the truth about the matter in the hope that they will repent and be saved is the ultimate act of love for us as humans.
I thank you for the mention of the school you work in, as this is a very opportune time to point out that God is not like a schoolmaster who says 50% (or whatever figure) or doing one’s best is good enough. God is 100% holy and abhors all sin. Jesus told us to be holy as our Father in Heaven is Holy (look this up if you don’t believe me). 50%, 75% or even 99% is not good enough for him. He demands maximum results if a person is to enter Heaven on their own accord. However, because no human will ever make this 100%, God send along his son Jesus to die on the cross and suffer the punishment that all the saved people deserved, so that they could be counted as having reached 100%.
No. 109: – This comment is of no substance and is not worth picking apart. It does nothing except question my sanity and ignores the possibility that I have gone into life as a Christian with my eyes open.
fagburn
Your god doesn’t exist.
If a man can walk on water or turn water into wine let’s book him in Blackpool.
Or Las Vegas.
Chad
@fagburn: Or ask it to stop world hunger. Cure cancer and childhood diseases or anything that can be beneficial to the human race.
fagburn
@Chad: He’s a funny guy that Jesus guy…
Geri
@Graeme Phillips: Regarding: “No. 88: – I make no claim that all sorts of perversions from what God considers acceptable (e.g. homosexuality, bisexuality etc) don’t happen.”
I wasn’t for one moment suggesting that you are one of those people who claims bisexuality doesn’t really exist. I am well aware that people who do that usually have an entirely different agenda to your own.
I am not one of those who denies the existence of God either. I believe in God because I am surrounded by creation. But I have no religion. I have no religion because I do not believe humans, any humans, have the capacity to truly understand what God wants. And if God is real then God must have been here before religion and everything else man made and concieved.
If God so abhors bisexuality why do bonobo chimpanzees exist? Let alone fish that can apparently change their biological sex? Why are such creatures part of God’s creation?
Please don’t bother trying to tell me. You are not God. And I do not believe you have a clue what God wants anymore than I do.
E
You’re still failing to grasp this very simple concept. The bible could make overwhelming sense (it doesn’t, but let’s say it does for the sake of argument,) the fact that there’s no independent evidence to support anything in it renders it nothing more than a book of middle-eastern mythology. From genesis to Solomon to Jesus, none of it happened. I don’t disbelieve it because it’s, as you bizarrely claim, fashionable, or because “liberal elites” told me (I’m not keen on liberalism and I despise elitism.)I don’t believe it because it’s utter bollocks.
Your repugnant faux-morality is dying. Deal with it, and find something else to fill your time. I suggest gay porn. You appear to spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about men having sex as it is, petal.
GreatGatsby2011
I nominate Graeme Phillips as this weeks DOTW. Anyone second?
Chad
@GreatGatsby2011: I second
iDavid
@Greatgats…
I think that might be a fine idea. But before I give my support, I have to ask Graeme one very important yes or no question.
Graeme: Do you swallow?
E
Nah, I reckon she’s a spitter.
iDavid
Swallowin r spittin guess he’s too busy on his knees. Could at least give a thumbs up or down.
Great way to end a Sunday.
Aaaaaaaand “scene”
Graeme Phillips
No. 121: – I thoroughly agree. I very much enjoy sharing the Gospel message.
iDavid
The is no #121prior to your comment. Not to worry, we fully understand your confusion, in every area if life,,,bye Graeme.
Graeme Phillips
No. 121: – There is and it was written by you (it is the one that has the sentence “Swallowin r spittin guess he’s too busy on his knees. Could at least give a thumbs up or down.”
Anyway, there have been so many errors made by people here about basic matters of biblical doctrine. There are so many people here who have no authority to criticise me when it comes to accuracy of one’s postings.
It amazes me how many people here think they know it all about biblical teaching, yet it didn’t take much effort on my part to rebut their claims. And I’m not even a minister.
E
Biblical doctrine is irrelevant to me Graeme. I would fully expect you to know far about it than me, because I’m not fixated by contradictory, middle-eastern mythology riddled with tales of genocide and rape. That’s your bag, you kinky bugger.
I would point out though, even if your god was real, he’d still get told to do one. I have an intense dislike of totalitarian types, and your petty, childish deity fits that bill rather well. The all powerful intelligence behind this vast mind boggling universe spends its time enraged by where some monkeys on an insignificant space rock put their genitals? Okay sweetheart, if you say so.
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