Maybe Joy Behar was right, and we can’t keep it in our pants. [NYT]
Married Gays Enjoy Happy, Productive, Loving Unions That Include Sex With Other People
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schlomo
It’s not about keeping it in our pants — it’s about recognizing that the expectation not to fuck other people kills relationships faster/more successfully than actually fucking other people.
Tommy
Plenty of married straight people have open relationships in which they sleep with other people, too. It’s just that in the heterosexual community it’s more taboo so that people who have open relationships keep quiet about it. Whereas in the gay community it’s more openly discussed.
Frankie
Its easy to say a open relationship works best, but in practice I think a lot more people would have problems with it in their own relationship. If you want to fuck other people doesn’t that mean you should just stay friends?
Ian
Please lets not paint all gays as whore-mongers who have no control over their penises. Married gays also enjoy happy, productive, loving unions that DO NOT include sex with other people.
Qjersey
50% of straight couples cheat on each other. We’re just honest about it.
kevin vancouver
monogamy is unrealistic… its nice if it works for you great … but i mean cmon … you should at least allow yourself to know you could slip and if you do it’s really not the worst thing in the world..
Jon
I agree with Kevin Vancouver. The main problem with monogamy is the absolute nature of it. It’s nice to want to be monogamous, but we must realize that it’s not a really big deal if someone slips up.
The truth is the human animal is NOT a monogamous creature. Monogamy is a creation of our society and we all don’t have to play by those rules that others have made.
mm
saint lucia is killing me I HATE THAT SO MUCH.
Monogamy is personal, none of the sweeping generalizations posted should be considered realistic. It’s all about the individual couple and what they want most.
Shade
Ian: “50% of straight couples cheat on each other. We’re just honest about it.”
I think that the difference is that with the straight couples it really is cheating whereas, as you point out, with us there is an open understanding of what is going on. I’ve never had an open relationship but it’s common among my gay friends and no one ever makes a big deal out of it. My straight friends, on the other hand, will call me late at night freaking out because they think their significant other is cheating on them.
Chip
It’s those marriage vows: ” . . . unto you alone will I keep myself as long as we both shall live.” If you say that in a marriage ceremony in front of a bunch of people, well, you’ve said it.
Republican
This study only looked at male/male couples. I’d be curious what the numbers are for lesbians.
Republican
Just to back up my point… While the NYT article says that the research reveals how common open relationships are among gays and lesbians (and in the Bay Area to boot, I wonder what the figures would be for other areas), the careful reader will note that the very next sentence says that only male couples were studied.
[quote]
New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years — about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners. [/quote]
EdWoody
The point isn’t that gay have open relationships, or that straights have open relationships, or that gays can be monogamous, or that straights can be monogamous.
The point is that we, and everyone else, should be free to define our own relationships however we choose, as long as we are honest about it and don’t hurt anyone else.
neruda
@EdWoody. Ditto… The point is also that having already experienced how damaging unexamined societal proscriptions proscriptions can be, gays are more likely to question accepted mores in an open manner.
Ted C.
Consider the following:
(a) There’s no traditional societal expectation that gay men be monogamous. (In fact, there’s often the opposite expectation.)
(b) Our culture has a stud/slut double-standard that admires and rewards men for their sexual conquests (while condemning women for the same thing).
(c) Men who don’t want to sleep around are considered feminized or “whipped”.
(d) A lot of gay men have hang ups about being seen as feminine.
(e) Many gay men today lack examples of happy, monogamous, long-term gay couples. (This will change.)
(f) A lot of gay men are dysfunctional, as the result of homophobic and unsupportive (possibly even hostile or abusive) parents.
(g) Men in general (not just gay men) are emotionally retarded, and understand their dicks more than they understand their feelings.
(h) This study was done in _San Francisco_, of all places.
Considering all of the above, I’d say a 50% monogamy rate is a promising result. Remember, all those men who chose to be monogamous did so in defiance of every cultural norm.
Over time, as being gay becomes less exceptional, I’d expect the rate of gay monogamy in San Francisco to approach the rates of straight monogamy in San Francisco, whatever that might be.
Lukas P.
Cheatin’ men get the research!
OK, less research has been done on lesbian couples than on male couples. More research is conducted on straight couples than gays/lesbians.
That could be for many reasons, but the lesbian studies aren’t done as often. My theory on this is purely a hunch, but it may be that straight people still outrank gays/lebians/bisexuals AND men still outnumber women in the ranks of scientists who focus on quantitative studies of human sexuality — partic. those that pertain to same-sex couples.
That,s changing, as more women (straight, lesbian, bisexual) enroll in academic programs in this area, but the lag times between getting the degree, doing the research, and publishing the studies are still painfully slow.
Outside the academics, we see in clinical settings that same-sex couples tend to negotiate the openness of their relationships more overtly than do straight couples. Whether that’s because our relationships are less defined legally and are more ad hoc, I’d lean toward YES, but I find in practice that straight men and women opening up their relationships is more often a unilateral and unannounced decision by one partner — usually the man. Maybe that’s not true across the US or in non-urban settings, but it reflects what I see.
Uki
Monogamy and open relationships are not just some compatibility choices. There are disease-related risks involved in choosing a certain lifestyle.
Open relationships have been implemented by gay men since the 80s (Just read the article), and look what it has caused with the high number of HIV infection of gay men.
Not that I say that monogamous couples won’t get HIV, but of course, it is of LESS risk contracting HIV than couples on open relationships.
1EqualityUSA
I sometimes wonder if queerty is run by conservative anti-gay staff who would love nothing more than to see our efforts fail.
Lukas P.
People cheat. Difference is that someone who knows/suspects/thinks their bedmate/sextoy/spousarama may be cheating with others have at least heard that using protection may save them from STDS. Mr or Ms Naive just assumes their mate isn’t getting candy from more than one dish. And thus avoids latex, dental/penile dams, rubbery condoms, SEX 101 videos and day-after pills,
Uki
Condoms doesn’t fully protect from HIV. How come a piece of rubber that is being placed in one particular spot can fully protect the whole body from HIV?
When people from the rest of the world is advocating to stay with one partner to stop the spread of HIV. Here we are, being told by another people that we shouldn’t be monogamous, and just go and have fun with everyone else.
schlukitz
No. 18 · 1EqualityUSA
I sometimes wonder if queerty is run by conservative anti-gay staff who would love nothing more than to see our efforts fail.
I know. Queerty says Married Gays Enjoy Happy, Productive, Loving Unions That Include Sex With Other People like it is a bad thing.
Ian
I’m saddened by the number of men commenting that apparently being a whore-like animal with no respect for anything other than their fleeting penile desires to get off, as opposed to having respect and love for their husband/partner, comes across as a preferable standard for relationships in the gay community. It sure isn’t any wonder then about the proliferation and spreading of STD’s in big gay enclaves like San Francisco (of which I was a former resident) and New York.
How completely lacking in true “super-ego” maturity these men come across as, and little more than “id” seekers whose either immaturity or internalized homophobia makes them believe they are incapable of staying monogamous with one man.
schlukitz
No. 22 · Ian
How’s the air up there on top of that homophobic-sounding, religious-mantra that sex-is-bad, self-righteous soapbox you’re standing on?
Ian
@schlukitz: Oh I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware that choosing to be in control of one’s sexual urges and not running around humping any hot guy that moves like an animal in heat to be faithful to one’s husband/partner, family and frankly one’s personal sense of self-respect, consitutes being homophobic. And BTW, I’m VERY pro-sex as long as it’s responsible and honest with who you are with, and frankly is WAY hotter with someone you have a longterm emotional bond with rather than a guy in the back of a car.
schlukitz
No. 24 · Ian
God, if you don’t sound like Maggie Gallagher, I don’t know what does.
Whatever works for you, dude, is just fine and dandy. But, as I would also say to Maggie, keep your fucking morals off my body and stop telling everybody else how they must live.
James P. P.
there is no blanket stereotype here. some men want to be more animalistic and fuck everything that walks (as god intended), that’s who he is. i’m sure we can tweak a chemical in his body and slow all that down if it became a problem, but as long as he finds someone who accepts and understands this (UPFRONT) then who are we to bitch at their relationship? it cannot be a general statement because not all men are hardwired the same way.
on a completely separate note, anyone who says monogamy is unrealistic is full of shit. it may not be realistic FOR YOU, that’s fine, but there are plenty of old evolutionary traits that were needed for survival that we as modern humans find the need to control – violence for example. what was once a necessary staple for survival is now unacceptable behavior that will get you removed from society (in jail). Diet is another example.
Human evolution is just that – evolution. if you’re going to use some primitive gene as the source of your whoredom, where exactly does that put you on the evolutionary scale?
1EqualityUSA
Ian, you sound like a very fine spouse for whomever was lucky enough to marry you.
Lukas P.
The penis demands its own rights!
Catchy huh?
Truth told, my guy and I are monogmous. That was discussed and decided early on in coupledom, and it was something we both wanted based on knowing how each of our minds work.
We’re also not freaking idiots, and know we’re not perfect. When attraction to someone else [e.g. yummy Jude Law or some other guy] arises, we do talk about it. If that arrangement for any reason need to be modified, such as if one of us were unable to have sex, we’d talk about it. We also both are horrible at lying, so you can read on the face the thoughts in our minds.
That said, I’m not preaching how any other couple should run their relationship. I know all kinds of couples who make open polyamorous relationships works, and plenty who don’t. What does work, IMO, is to be very explicit with each other and know yourselves and your damn weak spots. Temptation is one thing, but biting the apple without being clear of the consequences is another. A wife who just assumes her lawfully wedded guy is being monogymous is being naive. Any couple who doesn’t come up with explicit mutually satisfactory ground rules is leaving too much unsaid.
@Ian: Fleeting penile desires? Um, your penis has thoughts that don’t filter through a brain? Why, you’re a medical miracle.
@Lukas P.: Dude, you are freaking brilliant! That “candy from more than one dish” line was delish! When you’re feelin frisky call me?
schlukitz
No. 26 · James P. P., No. 28 · Lukas P.and No. 27 · 1EqualityUSA
Excellent comments all the way around.
jason
I think this strongly suggests that the gay community is a sex cult. All the features of a sex cult are there – the obsession with body, the promiscuity, the sleaze, the “open” relationships. I could go on and on. Gay men have essentially become like David Koresh.
jason
Sex itself is not bad but its abuse is. Gay men have turned sex into a “be all, end all”. Its the focus of their lives. Like a sex cult, the day’s events revolve around achieving an orgasm, preferably at the local sauna.
We really are no different from straight guys.
1EqualityUSA
Jason, when we die and do come face to face with our maker, it will be very embarrassing if all one has to show for their existence, their time here on Earth, is how many times one managed to get their nerves and muscles to go into momentary spasms. Putting all of our mind’s energy into this bodily event, especially when the body will be left behind like an egg shell, puts orgasms in perspective.
Ian
@1EqualityUSA: Wow that was a very thoughtful comment that makes one think and hopefully assess how they are currently approaching their lives. One is with random acts of orgasm out of a fear of true intimacy or a selfishness/narcissism of thought, or preferably to use the gift of sexual intimacy to truly build and strengthen an emotional bond with another to build a foundation of a life that’s love spreads outward to others that encounter it. THAT’S what I want to be able to say I achieved on this all too brief time on this world when my time comes to an end on this level of existence.
1EqualityUSA
Ian, you sound like a total peach. I hope you and your spouse have a healthy, happy, prosperous life together. Equality has to happen, because there cannot be two tiers of rights.