Battery of a peace officer… Does that mean someone with a (taser)gun, nightstick and handcuffs claims to be beat up by gays? Must get him some funny reactions in the office LoL

Don’t get me wrong, I’m out, proud and all up for gay rights… But this sounds so rediculous I just had to joke. It totally seems like some homophobic excuse to sue human rights protesters.

Like that’d make us say “oh, hell, I might get sued for something made-up and silly… wel let’s not fight for our rights anymore then!”

Unless above mentioned peace officer had to seek medical treatment he’s a total ass for makin a case out of it… IF there’s even something to make a case out of.

So yea…aren’t you just the dearest, little disappointment…

and no, im not part of gay shame. i live in small town maine. if a country boy from the sticks can have a fierce analysis that questions all the systems that are at work trying to kill us, erase our histories and de-sexual our existence then so can you city boys with all yr cultural access. come on now…

and please dont bring the anti-intellectual cut downs into this. again if a little faggot like me in the sticks of maine can think critically about “change” so can you. its not my fault yr stupid or unwillingly to question.

Oh my lord!

If I had a dime for everytime some barfly gym-bunny twink in Prada and Calvin Klein undies lectured me on “nonconformity” without seeing the irony, I’d be a very wealthy homo.

People advocating the promiscuous bar-hopping gay ghetto lifestyle (yet complaining about “conformity”) are the ultimate conformists. They’re not offering “liberation,” but rather attempting to impose THEIR views on others by denying gay folks who do want to get married that option.

“Irate, self-righteous, post-colonial studies at its best, right here. Which is not to say that it is completely accurate”

I meant to say ‘inaccurate’. As I stated before, I agree with much of what was said, and I think there is some brilliance to this whole Gay Shame movement of which you seem to be a part. I still can’t agree with your method, though I do appreciate your dedication to the long-term fight and recognition that this victory (when it comes) will be only a patch. A patch is still worth something, though.

And because my meeting was cancelled (YAY)…

NO. This is amongst the most troubling aspect of this current epidemic of gay marriage. The way the marriage movement is framing any critique of their precious institution is either you are one of us (gay married) or you are one of them (homophobe). This helps to silence the much needed debate and public discourse around such issues.

Agreed. I know some very good-natured, rational people who for non-bigoted, non-homophobic reasons have problems with gay “marriage”, and nine times out of ten it’s an issue of rhetoric…definitions…sacred words…hocus pocus. Shutting them down with a “bigot” doesn’t serve much. Dialog does…

However, we are dealing with mobs on both sides, and individuals are rarely capable of civil dialog, let alone mobs. And here you too have used (or pasted) derisive and sensational terminology to attack those who do not support your own cause. So let us just agree that these things will inevitably happen and each do our on part to minimize it in our own language. I will fall short, too, but if we keep each other aware of this tendency we’ll get a lot further.

Lastly, I agree that there are many who want the sort of utopian/dystopian world of married consumeristic normalcy that you (and I) would disdain…ever fear. The forces propagating such a world are powerful, but they live within the mob more than they do in individual information brokers or conservative cabals. And I see how this symbolic victory, to your eyes, could actually further a hollow, state-suckled state by allowing groups to assimilate rather than keeping erect the barriers from whose parapets notions of a loftier world are launched…I understand that those barriers and the antagonism engender passion and great ideas. I think, however, that it is very pessimisti to think that even once those barriers are eliminated we cannot sustain our passion and continue to strive for a better world, whatever that may be.

So yea…hooray for gay marriage, but keep on trucking, muh dear.

“Also, what is this “Morning Goods” thing you guys keep talking about?”

http://www.queerty.com/morning.....-20081112/

haha

I don’t think you should be afraid…unless, of course, you mind having some of our more catty posters criticize your half-naked body.

I think Trenton hits the nail on the head:

“I agree that this is addressing a symptom and not the cause and that the cause is bigger than homophobia…it’s xenophobia/misogyny/racism a whole cocktail of social ills that we are only very slowly chipping away. But sometimes you have to treat the symptoms first for the body to normalize and fight the underlying infection. In this case that starts with integration…or at least the option to integrate, though many will always exercise their right to abstain and remain separatist.”

I personally have not the slightest desire to get married and neither does my boyfriend. I understand the economic and legal factors associated with it, but marriage has always felt like more of a religious thing to me. I’ve always associated marriages with a church and boy, I don’t like churches.

However, as most of us agree, this isn’t a religious issue at all. It’s about integration and legal equality. Conrad, I seriously agree with you on a lot of what you say, but you’re essentially saying, “There is bigger fight to fight, so this one is irrelevant.”

It’s not. It has it’s place and it has it’s time (right now). Stepping stones first.

I can agree with this, as well as your first long paragraph, but the section that begins “The current push towards gay marriage is…” kind of loses me. You seem to be calling for a complete restructuring of the system (I’m thinking Communist or something of that nature), and that’s all well and good. It shines a little light on your being miffed at the use of the word revolution. However, to conflate the desire for recognition and protection under the current law with utter complacency about the atrocities committed by that same larger entity is spurious at best.

The way immigration is being used by the gay marriage movement is not only un-thought-out but also relies on racist notions of the “white man saving his brown lover”.

Irate, self-righteous, post-colonial studies at its best, right here. Which is not to say that it is completely accurate. But if you ever wonder, Conrad, why people aren’t taking your opinions seriously, it may just be because you word everything as a personal attack. By alienating your potential audience, it seems that you have played into the hands of this ATROCIOUS patriarchy you so abhor. Bravo?

But to more directly address the point you make here, these are social issues and civil issues, but they are also (here comes a dirty word for you) economic issues. They are all very complex and they each have various ramifications. It is not negligent to fight for one issue and not simultaneously for the billions of others; it’s necessary. And if you want to recruit people for these other causes…Pro tip: don’t tell them that they are racist/hypocritical for not spreading themselves across every issue known to man. Or do you think that we are already a lost cause, and now you’re just wagging your finger?

As they have positioned gay marriage as the last great civil rights battle, will they continue to fight after the Honeymoon?

I do hope so. I agree that this is addressing a symptom and not the cause and that the cause is bigger than homophobia…it’s xenophobia/misogyny/racism a whole cocktail of social ills that we are only very slowly chipping away. But sometimes you have to treat the symptoms first for the body to normalize and fight the underlying infection. In this case that starts with integration…or at least the option to integrate, though many will always exercise their right to abstain and remain separatist. That’s their prerogative, just as some churches will never accept gay marriages “religiously” though they are accepted legally. Whoopty doo to them. The point is that every generation is less biased against gender/race/sexual orientation etc. than the last, and this will progress will accelerate if we see functional gay-parented families.

That’s all I have time for. Good luck, and stuff…

So, what is wrong with gay marriage?

In order to answer that question we must first understand what this thing called marriage is. Marriage is essentially a financial and legal contract that allocates the movement of property, power and privilege from one person to another. Historically it has been a way of consolidating family power amongst and between men, through women. In more recent times marriage in the United States has functioned to solidify the American middle class. Marriage does this through concentrating wealth and power through family lines and inheritance (both in terms of money and power). Because of marriage’s ability to discipline class structures it is now, and always has been a primary structure of a capitalist economy. In reality most people marry within their own socioeconomic class. Marriage, earlier through miscegenation laws, and currently through racist “values” also contains wealth through racist ideologies of matrimony. Because of these realities there has been a long history of critique of the institution of marriage launched by feminists of color, white feminists, and queer people among others.

What about gay marriage? Isn’t gay marriage going to change all of this?

NO. The current push towards gay marriage is, in fact, not going to subvert the systems of domination we all live through. Ironically, the gay marriage movement is standing on these same legacies of brutality for their slice of the wedding cake. Take for example the “Freedom to Marry” stickers created by the freedom to marry organization. Not only are these stickers falsely equating the intervention of the State into ones life (marriage) with “freedom” (when was the last time the State helped you to become more “free”?) they are trying to work this idea through horrifying star-spangled stickers. Instead of critiquing the ways US imperialism has rendered most transgender people, queer people, people or color etc. as expendable through its countless wars here and abroad, the Freedom To Marry stickers simply disguise these histories and reproduce this red-white-and-blue national theme for every married gay and guilt filled liberal to wear with PRIDE.

If straight people can marry, why should gay people not have the same privilege?

What we are calling for is an abolishment of State sanctioned coupling in either the hetero or homo incarnation. We are against any institution that perpetuates the further exploitation of some people for the benefit of others. Why do the fundamental necessities marriage may provide for some (like healthcare) have to be wedded to the State sanctioned ritual of terror known as marriage?

Won`t gay marriage help couples stay together where one person is not a US citizen?

The way immigration is being used by the gay marriage movement is not only un-thought-out but also relies on racist notions of the “white man saving his brown lover”. Although it is true that because of the US policies on immigration some lesbian and gay couples may be split, gay marriage does not at all question these systems that allow some people into the country( white) while excluding others (people of color). Where are the gay marriage “activists” when the INS is actively raiding and deporting whole families ?(such as it is currently doing just blocks away from the Castro in San Francisco’s Mission District). Also missing from the picture of immigration that gay marriage advocates are painting is the reality that there are queer couples in the US where neither person is a US citizen. How will gay marriage help them stay in the US if that is what they want to do? Gay marriage will not challenge “citizenship” but simply place some bodies within its grasp while holding others out.

I agree with your argument, but isn’t gay marriage a step in the right direction?

This liberal model of “progression” is one of the primary ways many of us are ideologically trapped into a reformist way of thinking. To understand how gay marriage, like voting, will never lead to liberation we can look to the histories of many “social justice movements” that only address oppressions on a level of the symptomatic. Gay marriage and voting are symbolic gestures that reinforce structures while claiming to reconfigure them. This scheme will undoubtedly become apparent with “marriage equality” advocates. As they have positioned gay marriage as the last great civil rights battle, will they continue to fight after the Honeymoon?

Won’t gay marriage help get health care to more people?

It may help some people get healthcare but for the vast majority of Americans with NO healthcare it will do nothing. And within the rhetoric of the gay marriage movement working towards healthcare for all (people and animals) is nowhere to be found. This argument also relies on the false assumption that one person would already have healthcare.

So if you are against gay marriage then you are allying with the Christian Right and the GOP!

NO. This is amongst the most troubling aspect of this current epidemic of gay marriage. The way the marriage movement is framing any critique of their precious institution is either you are one of us (gay married) or you are one of them (homophobe). This helps to silence the much needed debate and public discourse around such issues. It seems as if everyone has been shamed into submission and subsequent silence by the marriage movement. Even in allegedly “progressive” circles any mention of the implicit links between marriage, misogyny, and racism in the U.S. gets shutdown by a “gay married”. Ironically, if you look at the rhetoric of the freedom to marry movement and the Republican Party their similarities are frighteningly apparent. In their ideal world we would all be monogamously coupled, instead of rethinking the practice of “coupling”. They want us working our jobs not working towards collective and self-determination, remembering anniversaries not the murder of trans-people, buying wedding rings not smashing capitalism. The vision of the future the republicans and the gay marriage movement has offered will render most of us already in the margins of the picture (trans-people, sex workers, queers of color, HIV positive people, non-monogamous people etc) as the new enemy of the régime of married normalcy they hope to usher in.

@Conrad: Would you like to support that comment?

Haha, that’s right! I noticed that about his name too 　（笑）. all makes sense now :)
あたしももっと練習さなくちゃいけない。マークくんはお酒を飲まない事にしているんだけど、LAにいれば、あたしはトレントン君と一緒に杯を挙げろうね！　（日本語で下手ぁぁ）

You can expect a subpoena from the Department of Buzzkill Control, by the way.

lalala. Doesn’t change the rest of what I said. そうして毎日毎日もう少し日本語を忘れて仕舞うので少なくとも伝えましてよかった。ありがとうね。

what fucking planet is everyone on?!

Until they are acquitted. ^_^

much love

(p.s. you are adorable)

I agree with D. Ask him about the time he saved someone’s life. Or the time he biked from San Fransisco to LA for charity. Or the ten thousand other amazing stories he has.

Yes, we’ve established that.

; )

L.A.è¿„ いけばお酒何杯も挙げたいなあ…

Ganbatte!

You are one of the men who will pick up the mantle of the older queers who brought us this far, and like many other posters mentioned, there’s much to admire about you.

lmao @ boysenberry phone

That’s adorable.

Next, I am old enough I still dictate my e-mails to my secretary, but the way you used that twittering contraption gives me hope for the future. I’m still trying to find one of those boysenberry phones.

Also, as a Gay theologian, your words were especially heartenng to me.

Keep up the good work, but remember only the religious right has a martyr complex. Take care of yourself too.