As the New Jersey State Senate today debates same-sex marriage (UPDATE: Senate votes no 20-14), we’re learning very quickly who the terrible people sitting in elected office are. Among them? Republican Sen. Michael Doherty, who’s testifying now against the bill. “Suddenly today, there’s implications that you’re discriminating against folks when you want to maintain that defitintion. Somehow today, you’re crazy if you want the people of New Jersey to decide this issue like they have in 37 other states. [My constituents] are upset about being disenfranchised [about deciding major issues]. … They feel disenfranchised once again today. … This is about letting the residents of New Jersey decide a major re-definition that has been recognized for thousands and thousands of years. (Applause)”
Then there’s Sen. Sean Kean, who’s talking about how gays increase real estate value! “Someone told me today I have the gayest district in the state.” After “promising to keep an open mind,” however, he’s voting against it. “When you lay down at night and go to sleep, you take a heart check. … Some people characterized some of us who are opponents of this bill as blind sheep following some kind of a religious doctrine. I take offense to that too. Is religion a part of that decision marking process? Of course. … For those who characterize [opponents of the bill] of being afraid of political primaries … that is unacceptable to me.”
And that’s just a sampling.
And then there are folks like Democratic Sen. Nia Gil, who so eloquently points to a little thing known as Loving v. Virginia. “The definition of marriage has been delineated by color and by race, and the court found that to be a violation of the Equal Protection Caluse. And that is exactly what is happening now. Why does it matter? Because we have already state action. We are debating this issue as if we have no committed to a course of action. The civil union law says, and I quote, ‘The legislature has chosen to establish civil unions by amending the current marriage statute to include couples. In doing so, the legislature is counting a long-standing history of inequity by providing same-sex couples with the same rights and benefits as heterosexuals.’ So we inched into amending, and when I question representatives of the Catholic Church, they say they support civil unions, so we’re not here talking about an issue of morality. … So the issue of a cultural change … has already been sanctioned with the issue of domestic partnerships. … So that state action, once it creates an unequal situation, it violates the situation. So I don’t think, humbly, that we’re here debating in a vacuum. We have to look at what state action have we taken as a legislative body. That state action says the intent of civil unions is to give all benefits and privileges that heterosexual married couples have. … Just because it is not a racial injustice, it does not mean it is not a civil rights injustice. … This body cannot abdicate its responsibility once we have taken state action. That state action must be constitutional in its equal protection.”
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
(Rush transcript. Errors possible.)
FakeName
What the hell is “Loving v. Brown”? Do you mean Loving v. Virginia, Brown v. Board of Education, something else entirely because you have no competence as editors?
rf
fail!
Adam
Can we have a list of the senators who voted against?
rg
A vote for common sense. Two women together is sick and gross not a marriage.
Brian NJ
Nia Gill was brilliant. Her experience as a lawyer, a woman and an African American has truly elevated her.
Michael Letterman
Yes we can. Apparently should be Yes we already did. First NY now NJ next… well I’ll let that be a secret for now.
rf
Defeats are what make us stronger. Relatively speaking, we just haven’t felt enough pain as a minority to push things farther without the courts. Just think about how long blacks suffered and women and asians and everyone else (and yes minorities still do suffer in many ways). And the way they suffered, out in the open, with the blessings of society. We’re not always so easy to see, discrimination against us was more insidious and less part of everyday life. We’ve also sort of embraced the fringe and I think historically we’ve been more prone to get by rather than fight.
We hide, pretend to be straight, marry opposite sex partners. you can be gay without anyone knowing or thinking about it hard enough to discover. i wonder how many..really how many gay people (inc bi, trans, or what have you) there are in the world. not just out but living as straight and never acknowledging it to anyone (except maybe to casual anonymous partners). I’m talking to you “straight people” who come to gay sites to bash gays. As well as those that come through quiet desparation. i’ll bet its well over 10%. maybe over 20%.
Eric
failed state.
Michael Letterman
RF: or maybe its zero. Maybe all those who are homosexual have already revealed themselves and that would explain why whenever it is put to a vote there are never enough votes to pass any pro gay legislation.
Attmay
Heterosexuals don’t deserve marriage rights. Look at the mess they’ve made of it.
Only gays should be allowed to marry. Only gays should be allowed, period. RG and Michelle Letterwoman will be the first to go.
romeo
No. 9: We pass all kinds of pro-gay legislation here in California. Most states do, actually. As for your “secret,” who the fuck would tell a paranoid schizophrenic a secret? Oh yeah, the voices they’re hearing in their heads. LOL
Go fuck yourself, Letterman. You’re nothing but a dirty piece of shit. Oh, and I’m leaving this thread, so I’ll never see your usual fury at being bested. LOL
rf
With Michael Letterman its 20% plus 1.
jason
The Democrats let us down, as usual.
Lukas P.
Sen. Nia Gil is one impressive, eloquent speaker. Yep, I should’ve posted this earlier or on the latest thread, but I’m sending her a thank you note today all the same—hopefully to balance out the hate mail she’s no doubt received. Not from NJ, but she’s a national treasure.
Lukas P.
Crap, I meant that I’m not from NJ.
I hit SUBMIT too soon!
Joe
OK, I’m confused…I read Senator Gill’s comments 3 times and still, I’m not sure if she’s for or against gay marriage. How did she vote??
Daniel
Just like Nazi Germany, it has been repeatedly proven in the USA you simply have to outnumber people to violate their human rights. Most of the USA is just another failed democracy that fell to mob rule. It is nearly a decade after 9/11 and Americans STILL violate the human rights of other Americans more than any foreign force ever has or ever will. The only thing reliable about Americans is their delusional notion that violating other people’s human rights does anything to secure their own. One third of Americans are cool, while two-thirds are superstitious morons as destructive and doomed as Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Lucas
While some people who oppose gay marriage do so on bigoted grounds, calling people bigots does not help persuade people to our side. In fact, I have heard mushy moderates in the middle express that they are turned off by gay rights activists who call people who disagree with them “bigots.” The only people who are apt to support gay marriage because they think opposition to it is bigotry are already pro-gay liberals and progressives, which is a rather 25-30% of the population. Calling people bigots either doesn’t is an impotent insult or turns people against the pro-gay movement. If we really want to win, we need to govern ourselves in a way that convinces people to support us, instead of turning them even more against us.
Daniel
Seriously, is any thinking adult REALLY surprised that the majority of states in the USA cannot even uphold the most rudimentary human rights? Or REALLY surprised by the fact that separation of church and state does not actually exist in most states in the USA? Much of the USA barely stands much above Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Singapore when it comes to freedom. Americans are a nation of individuals easily distracted into not using critical thinking skills. If they did, there would be nonstop rioting in the streets. Most states in the USA actually have written millions of people out of their constitutions… name any other act greater than that for ending the rule of law? There is none. THAT is THE top one, and millions of Americans actually celebrate writing millions of people out; they celebrate violating the human rights of millions of other Americans – that is the grand-daddy of stupidity. You cannot get a more ignorant population than that when it comes to trying to sustain a nation. Justice? Liberty? What a joke in most of the USA.
Javier
Going to the federal courts would be a viable strategy if 1) we had a reasonable chance of prevailing there and 2) it would not hasten the efforts to add an anti-gay Marriage Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Any attempts by the federal courts to make marriage a federal right would unleash a crushing backlash against us through an anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment. The only thing that has stopped it for the time being is a Democratic congress. This time next year, there is a very good chance we will have a Republican Congress that will likely be calling for an federal anti-gay marriage. IT only takes 38 states to ratify an amendment, and 30 state constitutions already ban gay marriage, and 10 ban it by statute. Voters rejected same-sex marriage in all 31 states where it has been on the ballot. Cowardly politicians know this and will vote accordingly. Thus, there is a fair chance that at least 38 states would ratify such an amendment, which could almost snuff out same-sex marriage nationwide for generations to come.
TheSecond
Lucas, that was a profound statement you’ve made here. I hope your community can pick up on that tone, and carry it to victory. Being from the world of straight, I’m not versed in the Gay Marriage movement what so ever, but I do believe your group needs far better marketing people, because the look and feel are working against you. Change that, and you win. Good luck!
Robert in CA
Another example of what happens when you bash and belittle Christians, you know, the very people you expect to support you.
Now that was oh so swift. Following legislators to their kids schools, threatening Christians, that strategy has worked really great to date.
One thing for sure the far left and democrat candidates took the gay money and ran for the hills.
This is a terible defeat considering the money that was poured into this comedic tragedy.
Michael
I’m curious – of the people (I won’t dignify them by calling them elected title) who voted nay on this, how many of them have been divorced? How many may have abused their spouse? How many are adulterers? I’m just curious….. If they’re gonna play the religious card of crap then we can play it right back at ’em – eh Maggie??
Steve
The NJ supreme court ruled 4-3 in 2006, that gay couples have a right to equal protection, including all of the same protections as straight married couples, and ordered the State to make necessary corrections in law. The 3 dissenting opinion was that the majority did not go far enough, and that the State must allow same-sex couples to marry.
The Legislature then created the “Civil Union” verbiage in the NJ statutes, to avoid using the word “Marriage”.
In 2009, the New Jersey Civil Union Review Commission unanimously concluded that civil union status is simply not equal to marriage. The report concludes that the civil union alternative “invites and encourages unequal treatment of same-sex couples and their children.” The NJ State Bar has also criticized the Civil Union statute, saying that there are inherent and obvious problems, which lead to unequal treatment.
Hence, the State has failed to provide gay couples with equal protection, including all of the same protections as straight married couples. And, the State government has said so.
Seems to me there might be a new lawsuit, claiming that the State has failed (and indeed refused) to provide equal protections as ordered by the previous decision.
Only one additional Justice would have to be convinced. And, the factual evidence is pretty clear.
rf
Steve, great post. It looks like there will be a lawsuit. Queerty linked to an announcement in the other newer NJ marriage post with, I think, 51 comments.
http://nclrights.wordpress.com/2010/01/07/back-to-court-to-win-marriage-equality-in-new-jersey/
Robert, NYC
Hey folks, take comfort that today, Portugal passed marriage equality by an overwhelming majority. Maggie Gallagher and the Lettermans of this world can gloat all they want. Another sovereign nation takes the lead over America and there’s NOTHING these two bigots can do about it. Far more significant than a defeat in NJ and elsewhere. That brings the total now to 8 countries, six in Europe, Canada and South Africa, five states in America, Mexico City and Buenos Aires. This is sweet justice knowing that gay couples in Portugal will be allowed to marry in a civil ceremony prior to the arch bigot of all, Papa Ratzi’s arrival in that country shortly after the new leglislation takes effect. We’re slowly winning, folks, don’t give up. Time and history will be on our side. Portugal today has proved it, a heavily catholic country. The religious wackos and right wingers like the Letterman white trash in our own country are slowly being replaced by the more enlightened educated younger generation emerging, tomorrow’s voters, the majority of whom support full equality. These bigots who are currently basking in ignorance, their days are numbered and they know it. Why do you think we’re seeing their acts of desperation? This is nothing more than a temporary setback, we’ll win. The next step for NOM is to get behind a ban on divorce. I’d love to see how that plays out. It will piss off a lot of straights who enjoy committing adultery and other perverse and deviant acts while upholding the sanctity of marriage.
terrwill
WTF?? WHY GIVE LETTERMAN A BOLD MENTION?
Z reveals
I can’t believe this. Grossly looking Guidos & Guidettes from New Jersey shore can get married but gay cannot. WTF!
Shame on NJ. It si not Garden State. It is Garbage State.
So disappointing!!!!!
Robert, NYC
Attmay #10…..they’ve been doing that for millenia, long before marriage equality was pipedream. Those stupid breeder bastards who blame the breakdown of their own marriages on same-sex marriage in other countries and in five states in America are idiots if that’s what they believe. They always have to blame someone or find a scapegoat for their own shortcomings, its so unrepublican too since many of them from the top down are right wing morons, always railing against liberals, that we need to take responsiblity for our actions and to stop blaming others for any misfortune.
Lets face it, we’re a fucking backward country not that much different than the theocracies seen in the middle and far east. The majority of the right wing scumbag religious cultists including the one in the White House would I’m sure feel quite at home living there. So my recommendation for them is to all go live there. Besides, polygamy is legal in islamic cultures, a lot of those southern breeders and others in the backward red states would just love that and the incestuous, deviant, perverse practices that go on in those kinds of marriages created by there fellow breeder heteros. Notice how none of the religious cultists here condemn islam for polygamy just because so called christians and jews don’t practice it? That alone debunks the myth that same-sex marriage would re-introduce it. They’re fast running out of excuses. While we’re at it, we should not only support a ban on divorce but a ban on breeders who marry who choose not to breed or who can’t to level the field to illustrate just how absurd their arguments are. Get a few hundred thousand signatures, that ugly cow Gallagher would I’m sure support that.
As for that ugly hater bitch Maggie Gallagher, she’s a fucking douchebag having been knocked up, probably fucked quite a bit before she married. She and her sect have NO moral authority whatsoever saying who can and cannot marry.
Daniel
Portugal has one of the most corrupt courts in the world, so “laws” in Portugal are highly suspect and generally moot. The top court ruled that the Equal Protection clause of the Portuguese Constitution (which happens to also include sexual orientation) does not actually have any application to Portuguese Law; they refuse to enforce the Portuguese Constitution itself which was put into place by popular vote. So don’t cheer too much for Portugal – a corrupt court system destroys the rule of law as much as any corrupt legislative or executive body on Earth. This same court ruled that heterosexuals who rape gay kids should get lesser sentences because gay kids aren’t really harmed that much – they are a sick, evil top court.
Robert, NYC
Daniel #30, be that as it may,the fact of the matter is, it still has passed marriage equality that we can only dream of having in our own country. Do you really think that some of our courts aren’t corrupt? The NJ court ruled that gay couples should have the same rights as married couples but left it to the legislature to decide under which name. Now, if the court had any decency or guts and really believed in equality, it would have said outright that we should have the right to marry. One’s religious beliefs have no place in the public domain which is what that decision was all about. Courts should be expanding rights not diminishing them, so too should government. Clearly we don’t have that in this society while Portugal does in spite of inherent corruption. DADT, DOMA are all about the government diminishing rights, not promoting them. I don’t call that democracy for one second. Further, this country is in no moral position to be criticizing other countries. We have enough corruption here to go around and then some.
Wade MacMorrighan
“Thousands and thousands of years”? WTF?! Why are the Christians allowed to so flagrantly piss on the historical record like this, which says something quite the opposite?! Why isn’t anyone defending history against them? There is plenty of evidence not only for the fact that “marriage” has been “re-defined” numerous time; marriage was only associated with “love” in the 1920s; it used to be that marriages were arranged and associated with an exchange of property, only; and there exist numerous accounts that two men were married under the auspices of the Church during the medieval period; and the Church had NO interest in solemnizing marriage for several hundred years of its brutal existence (it was strictly a pagan-/ peasant-based structure); don’t forget the cultures 9that are still extent) in which Gay men have an esteemed social position, and in which we are often sought after as spouses by other tribesmen. What the Church is doing is trying to maintain its superiority of their status quoe over any and all religions other than its own!
Moreover, what they are doing, beating us civilly over the head with their Bible (under a pretense, of course), is offensive to MANY religions that have no proscription against us Queers!
Robert, NYC
Wade, right on. Next time the religious wackos start chating that worn out Leviticus mantra, remind them of the following precious little tidbit….below. They all claim to believe in the “scriptures”, yet I bet they’ll conveniently ingore the following that they need to be countered with every time they bash us using scripture.
For the benefit of Maggie Gallagher, Letterman and all the other scumbags…Sanford, Vitter, Fossella, Clinton, Edwards, Gingrich, and the rest of the filthy scumbags out there everytime they use the sanctity of marriage mantra.
Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.”
Robert, NYC
Wade, right on. Next time the religious wackos start chanting that worn out Leviticus mantra, remind them of the following precious little tidbit….below. They all claim to believe in the “scriptures”, yet I bet they’ll conveniently ingore the following that they need to be countered with every time they bash us using scripture.
For the benefit of Maggie Gallagher, Letterman and all the other scumbags…Sanford, Vitter, Fossella, Clinton, Edwards, Gingrich, and the rest of the filthy scumbags out there everytime they use the sanctity of marriage mantra.
Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.”
AndrewW
Wade said: Moreover, what they are doing, beating us civilly over the head with their Bible (under a pretense, of course), is offensive to MANY religions that have no proscription against us Queers!
Only one-third of self-defined “religious” people in America are against our equality. The problem is we give them ALL our attention. The other two-thirds are the key to our equality, but we ignore them.
Until we understand that, we don’t deserve our equality.
AndrewW
@ Robert NYC:
When do you think it is helpful to stop blaming (and promoting) the enemy? Since they are the minority (one-third) of “religious” people, when do you turn your attention to the other two-thirds? When do you realize that you need to enroll them in your equality?
2-out-of-3 Americans will stand with us for full equality, but we’re too busy bigot-hunting or playing politics.
Our salvation is available – at work, next door, down the street and all around us. But, we need to wake up. We need to figure out how to win and then create a real movement.
Robert, NYC
AndrewW #36, I’m not opposed to having dialog with the two thirds, in fact some organizations have already embarked on that after the defeat in California. Many people who claim to be religious might say they believe we deserve equality, but not all of them would go as far as supporting marriage equality, not even the Episcopalians do. There are only three christian religious denominations that I know of that actually support marriage equality fully, ergo the United Church of Christ, the Unitarians and The Quakers. Who are the others that make up the two thirds? Have they been identified?
Attmay
@37 Robert, NYC:
A dialogue with those two thirds may be beneficial. As for the other one-third…
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” —Thomas Jefferson.
All states with anti-gay laws on the books need to lose federal funding for everything.
Michael Letterman
Daniel: yet another completely wrong comparison. The Nazi’s killed over religious ideology which has nothing to do with not making special laws because someone practices a sexual deviance.
I find America to be filled with freedoms you won’t find elsewhere, even in other free democratic nations. I work to defend these freedoms. If you don’t like the laws here, vote to change them. If that doesn’t work (as it hasn’t with the gays) then you can either leave or begin to wonder why the majority of the country doesn’t side with you.
Javier: That is exactly what I want to happen my group is constantly looking for ways to get this issue into a national referendum or in the Federal Court System where we can end the debate and finally move on to the next issue.
Michael: then what card on you going to play on us not divorced, non abusive, never committed adultery, not overly religious people? What card will you play against us.
Steve: what you miss out on is the concept that the supreme court can only interpret laws based on the Constitution they cannot create laws, since the Constitution does not cover sexual deviancy the courts opinions are no more or less just opinions.
Robert: Thank you for the gloating privileges, but I’ll wait till we complete the nation for an all out party (married people only). Portugal would be a fine place for you and your intended to settle down it.
As for America no face facts your losing as more and more Prop 8’s pop up the results will always end the same. Victory for us and the agony of defeat for you. NY & NJ and soon the rest of the country.
Attmay: Gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry nor adopt children nor in my estimation be in the military or health care industry. I will be the first to go where? I have been married to the same lovely woman for 22 years now, which in my profession is something of a record. And we expect to be married for many years to come.
terr will: not everyone is as stupid as you are that’s why.
Z reveals: I can’t believe it either but there it is all nicely wrapped up for us. NJ is proving yet again what a wonderful place it is.
Robert: Yeah like we give two craps about what happens in some piss ant Latin nation. They will pass any laws they think might increase their tax base since they are hurting for money. But as the DOMA moves and increases in adoption we will lead, as we do in so many ways, on this topic too. You said it to I like your use of the term, “we can only dream of having in our own country” yes you can only dream it since it will never happen.
Robert: You really are dim aren’t you when did I say anything to you about sanctity of marriage? But that works I’ll adopt it now. I’ll say back to you sometimes it takes exceptions to prove a rule.
Andrew: What an outrageous number “2/3 of Americans will stand with us for full equality”??????????? I think the number is more like 1/10 and I’m backed up by the growing numbers of people identifying themselves as Conservatives as of 2009 over 60% of Americans identify themselves by this label. More people are signing up to organizations I belong to defending marriage. More and more politicians are heeding the demand of their precincts to learn more about the need to defend marriage and the truth about the ‘gay agenda’.
Robert, NYC
Guys, don’t bait that piece of subhuman filth Letterman. Ignore the neanderthal. Don’t dignify his responses with an answer, he gets off on it.
As for his negative comment about Portugal, he’s displayed the arrogance of the ugly American abroad, an inferior one at that. The same rhetoric that made this nation a laughing stock under his compatriots in the last regime, remember, the ones who lied about WMD that embroiled us in a disgusting, immoral war. So much for the breeders’ moral superiority and mob rule mentality. Not a bright bunch these Letterman right wingers of this world, a dying breed thankfully. Intellectually and morally bankrupt.
AndrewW
@ Robert NYC:
Nearly half of all Catholics, Episcopalians, Methodists and many other denominations support our equality. There are NO Christian denominations that have taken that stand, but their members have and will.
The percentages that support equality are much lower for Baptists, Mormons and other very conservative Christians.
But, when you combine those two groups, the result is that ONLY one-third of the self-defined “religious” Americans are against our equality. The two-thirds are the ones we need to enroll in our effort. That would give us the “majority.”
In 2010 we need to figure out how to do that and then demonstrate that sufficient to own our politicians. Until we do that, we will continue to lose ALL political fights.
schlukitz
No. 20 · Javier
Any attempts by the federal courts to make marriage a federal right would unleash a crushing backlash against us through an anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment.
And I’ll just bet that you thought and said exactly the same thing back in 1964 when the black community won their civil-rights.
Why do I not get that you are pro same-sex marriage?
Ah…because you are championing the return of the Repubathugs.
Now, it makes perfect sense.
B
In No. 38 · Michael Letterman babbled his usual spiel.
FYI on a different thread, http://www.queerty.com/is-obama-going-to-make-good-on-his-immigration-reform-promise-to-latino-voters-and-ignore-americas-gays-20091230/ No. 219, Letterman blurted out that he was trying to illicit an angry response so he can “cut and paste their own words into a lovely collection” (for his anti-gay group to use). He’s simply a sleazy troll trying to get others to generate material for his anti-gay campaign.
schlukitz
No. 22 · Robert in CA
Another example of what happens when you bash and belittle Christians, you know, the very people you expect to support you.
You must be either drunk or on drugs to think that gay people ever really expected the support of Christians, who have throughout their entire history, made gay people wrong.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
schlukitz
No. 26 · Robert, NYC
Thank you for a very uplifting and encouraging commentary.
I needed it, as my spirits were really sagging…just like my senior citizen tits that ain’t been “tweaked” in a long time. lol
You’re a good soul!
Michael Letterman
Robert: Yes I suppose you are correct I should not have bashed Portugal, that country cannot help being the poor nation it is I should place the blame clearly where it belongs on the Portuguese People. If the war was so immoral why is your Lord Darth Obama not ending it and pulling our troops home? He has had a year so far and yet no pull back just more troops sent. I guess he finally got the memo that showed just how necessary this war is.
Tell me what a dying breed the right wingers are after the 2012 elections.
Andrew: Your numbers are all wrong. But know what I’ll let you find that out again and again as the question is put to them either directly or though their representatives and as they always answer the same. Just like the other queers you see the enemy as the Religious and the Conservatives being a large group which is standing in the way of the majority, yet both NY and NJ are liberal states not known for their religious domination. Yet both states spoke through their legislator to defend marriage.
schlukitz
No. 35 · AndrewW
The other two-thirds are the key to our equality, but we ignore them.
And you conveniently ignore the fact that this so-called two-thirds is ignoring the LGBT community. If they are so pro-gay, why are they not out in the streets protesting what just happened in NJ…or screaming bloody murder about the legislation that Uganda wants to pass against gays? Why is this “majority” so silent?
Until we understand that, we don’t deserve our equality.
That’s a low blow, especially coming from a fellow gay. It sounds no different to my ears, than a homophobe like Letterman berating, belittling and insulting members of the gay community ad nauseum.
Shame on you. Taking a dump on your gay brethren and telling us that our lot in life is our own fault, is not the way to gather support for our cause either. Would you blame a black person for the horrible treatment they received at the hands of whites and tell them that they didn’t deserve their equality too or tell a rape victim that it was their own fault that they got raped?
Where the fuck are you coming from? You don’t deserve to call yourself gay espousing homophobic-sounding rhetoric like that.
schlukitz
Daniel, Michael, Javier, Steve, Robert, Attmay, Terrwill, Z and Andrew.
Let’s see now. That makes 9 people Analman hit with one swat of the fly-swatter with his “mass-mailing”.
Most likely a result of the stationery company he deals with refusing to ship any more ink supplies to him until he pays his overdue bill.
AndrewW
Schlukitz asked: “And you conveniently ignore the fact that this so-called two-thirds is ignoring the LGBT community. If they are so pro-gay, why are they not out in the streets protesting what just happened in NJ…or screaming bloody murder about the legislation that Uganda wants to pass against gays? Why is this “majority” so silent?”
Because we haven’t asked for their help.
We’ve been too busy yelling at the conservative Christians and in the process creating the false belief that THEY are the majority. They are not.
WHEN we understand THAT reality and we seek to enroll our fellow citizens we will DESERVE our equality. Sure, how we got here isn’t fair, but I have shown you how to solve the problem – how to WIN.
Sooner or later, we NEED to figure out how to WIN. Despite the decades of pain, suffering and discrimination (and I agree Religion as an institution created it), we need to let go of the past and create our future. Two-thirds of our fellow citizens will support our full equality. We need to figure out how to demonstrate that. WHEN we do, we will have won.
I spent the last year of my life holding LGBT Equality Strategy Meetings in cities throughout the US. I sought ONLY ideas that could actually WIN our equality. This was much different than anything Gay Inc. is doing. It was NOT about raising money for salaries and lobbying OR electing different leaders. It was only about WINNING.
I licensed four very good ideas that when combined will create our equality in three years. I also commissioned seven separate media campaigns to re-brand “gay.” The campaigns will for the first time in the history of our “movement” run 30 second TV commercials about being gay – not as victims but as creative, talented and “human” we really are. The Ads don’t ask for pity they “sell” us and ask for help.
I think it is a real shame that for 40-50 years we have portrayed ourselves as “victims” and not winners. We have given Gay Inc. and many political efforts billions of dollars and we have NEVER re-branded or re-defined ourselves.
I have always appreciated your comments Schlukitz, and I think I understand both your frustration and anger. Something is coming this year that will finally be the ANSWER to our full equality. It will require us to see the world we want, instead of the world we’ve experienced. That doesn’t forgive any transgressions of the past, but it makes our future more important.
2010 will be the year we have a real movement, one where every one of us will understand how and when we can actually WIN. That movement will NEED you – your energy, your experience, your hope and even your frustration.
It is time to WIN. What has been missing is the cohesive strategy that allows all of us to contribute. There are 20 million LGBT persons in the US. We need them all to participate. Up until now they haven’t because they don’t believe we can win. That all changes this year. We can win. We will win.
$0.02
“A vote for common sense. Two women together is sick and gross not a marriage.”
I could very easily say the same about a straight couple as I have seen many sick and gross heteros getting hitched. Two women, as well as two men, is not sick and gross. Two people truly in love is a VERY beautiful, normal and natural thing. If you have a problem with gay marriage, don’t get involved with one. We deserve, will fight for and obtain our rights.
“Can we have a list of the senators who voted against?”
Visit Rod 2.0 Beta, a black gay blog, A great one at that. Whenever stuff like this goes to vote, he ALWAYS posts who voted for our rights and who voted against our rights so we know who is a friend and who is a foe.
http://rodonline.typepad.com/
schlukitz
No. 48 · AndrewW
Because we haven’t asked for their help.
Well, if that isn’t a free pass for not lifting a finger to help their fellow citizens, brothers and sisters, then I don’t know what is?
One could just as easily say “Well, you deserved what you got because you didn’t ask the rapist to help you…or at least be kind to you as he raped you. Oh, and about that short skirt/dress that you’re wearing…”.
As an EST graduate, I am familiar with all of the “taking responsibility” psycho-babble. And, as I learned there, I can only take responsibility for my own actions, but have no power over anyone else doing so other than by setting an example. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t.
In a perfect world, all 20 million gays would believe they can win and do everything in their power to make it happen.
Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world.
I too believe that we can win. I just don’t feel that pistol-whipping our gay brothers and sisters who don’t believe that we can win, is the answer. They need to arrive at their self-enlightenment at their own time and place.
Werner Erhard would be the first to agree that not everyone “gets it” at the same time. 😉
Michael Letterman
schlukitz: Gee dementia sure is a bitch. What use is ink when posting a reply. We had an ice situation and some idiot went off the road hitting a transformer and taking out the net in this area. When it came back up I was otherwise occupied keeping the world safe for hetero and homo alike. When I got the chance and saw the email I responded to it. Now I hope you take your medicine and stop obsessing about my posts. You’ll live longer and I’m sure your lover boy will like that.
Andrew: The simple thing is that you cannot win I can show you quite a few scrapbooks and hundreds of DVDs which will prove that you cannot win ever. Your group is it’s own worst enemy.
$0.02: There is nothing sick about a man and woman getting married true there are some who should never marry but in the gay community much like in the bestiality community and the pedophile community no one should be allowed to marry and if you give one group the right then you should give it to all the groups of deviants. That would be true Equality.
schlukitz
No. 51 · Michael Letterman
Gee dementia sure is a bitch.
Yes, you certainly should know first-hand.
What use is ink when posting a reply.
Metaphorically speaking.
We had an ice situation and some idiot went off the road hitting a transformer and taking out the net in this area.
A pity that they got it back up so quickly. A little hiatus from your hate messages would have been nice.
When it came back up I was otherwise occupied keeping the world safe for hetero and homo alike.
Ah yes. The adventures of Prince Valiant.
When I got the chance and saw the email I responded to it.
Never one to miss a beat or shirk on his call to duty…even when the ship is slipping beneath the waves.
Now I hope you take your medicine and stop obsessing about my posts.
Pot. Kettle. Black?
You’ll live longer and I’m sure your lover boy will like that
You should survive as long as I have, if for no other reason that we can keep verbally abusing you with the same fervor with which you verbally abuse us.
The simple thing is that you cannot win I can show you quite a few scrapbooks and hundreds of DVDs which will prove that you cannot win ever.
Yeah. Like scrapbooks are evidence of something that can prove something. I have this lucky rabbit’s foot and a four-leaf clover that “proves” that you can’t win either. So…we’re even.
Your group is it’s own worst enemy.
Double-edged sword, ain’t it?
the bestiality community and the pedophile community
Trotting out that tired old cliché again, are we? Can’t you at least come up with something new and a tad more convincing? I mean, I can’t think of one organization that has organized and promotes bestiality. Care to enlighten us?
you should give it to all the groups of deviants. That would be true Equality.
Most definitely. One old goat, should certainly be allowed to marry another old goat. What’s fair, is fair.
Wen
@ 35 Andrew ‘ The other two-thirds are the key to our equality, but we ignore them.
Until we understand that, we don’t deserve our equality.’
Im startled by that last sentence, you deserve equality regardless of any work you have to do on this matter. Dont blame yourself or gay Americans for the sad state of affairs your government keeps you in. It’s not your fault. Belgium for example legalized gay marriage with a minority of the country supporting it (they didnt have referenda, only polls) and government legalized gay marriage because that was the right and constitutional thing to do. The way this is handled in the USA is quite shocking to many Europeans, gay and straight. Dont you gay Americans ever blame yourself for it!
AndrewW
Schlukitz said: “I too believe that we can win. I just don’t feel that pistol-whipping our gay brothers and sisters who don’t believe that we can win, is the answer. They need to arrive at their self-enlightenment at their own time and place.”
I disagree Schlukitz. We have NEVER had a “winning strategy” or inspiring ideas to get our community to participate. We have always fought and hoped that maybe “one of these days” we’ll finally get treated fairly.
We have suffered through 30 years of HRC’s fund-raising machine spending $550 million on “lobbying” politicians (HRC even promoted 2008 as “The Year to Win,” but they had NO Plan).
We have wasted several billion dollars on other Gay Inc. charities. We have contribute hundreds of millions to political campaigns for Democrats. We got excited about Bill Clinton and then Barack Obama. ALL of this with NO results and very little accountability. It’s no wonder our community doesn’t believe we can ever win.
People “get it” when it makes sense and especially when it adds up to actually winning. For our dysfunctional “movement” that has NEVER happened. We continue the “struggle” without a strategy or plan for winning – so, we won’t.
2010 will be the year we let go of old ideas and embrace new bold ideas – ideas to win. It may take some time, but we’ll “get it.” And, we’ll also get our equality.
Today, nine out of ten LGBT persons are not participating or contributing to our equality. I don’t blame them. I understand why they are on the sidelines – they’ve NEVER seen a winning strategy or Plan. That’s coming soon.
AndrewW
@ Wen No. 53:
If we continue to believe in the false hope of a political solution, INSTEAD of enrolling our fellow citizens, then yeah, it’s our fault. That isn’t “blame” for our not having our equality, but rather for trusting politicians or LGBT Advocates.
Our equality is in the hearts and minds of our fellow citizens, but we do NOTHING about that. If we had the billions of dollars we have wasted on HRC, Gay Inc. and the Democrats, we could have had an incredible campaign to enroll the two-thirds of Americans that would support our equality. We wasted billions of dollars.
2010 is the year of accountability. We need a way to win. 40 years of failures should tells us it’s time to find a new strategy and let go of the past.
Michael Letterman
schlukitz: I wouldn’t know about dementia since I have many years to go before that becomes and issue for me. You however at the advanced age of 73 should certainly get checked out for it as you seem to exhibit all the signs of early onset.
I would not be posting what you consider ‘hate’ if you and your kind didn’t begin the fight and continue it. I am certainly within my “rights” to defend myself and my family.
No the adventures of me Michael Letterman diligent worker who enjoys the fruits of my labors.
Not one to miss a beat on defending myself, my family or in some cases my opinion.
Pot, kettle, dementia? YOU!
I should survive as long as you I agree in fact I should survive longer, but in my profession I somehow doubt I will.
Yes scrapbooks of posts by degenerates lauding their perversions certainly do prove something, I’ll leave it up to the readers to decide just what that proof is. Since I don’t work personally on the DVDs (well except a few times providing security) I really can’t say what they prove but they sure horrified me.
Thing is you may say we can’t win but the facts show we have and continue to do so.
When something works why change it. I found it most convincing to all I ask the question of and yet you can dismiss it without being able to answer it.
And thus on your last line you make another entry into the scrapbook “one old goat etc.” proves you either don’t get the point or you wish to deflect from the point. Yeah let anyone marry anyone that your line? Well I say no lets see which of our points wins.
Wen: Thanks for pointing out another little nothing anyone cares about country. Thankfully Belgium isn’t America. Never way and never will be.
Michael Letterman
Andrew: Lets say your numbers were correct. If two thirds of the American population was anti DOMA then it stands to fact that two thirds of our politicians would reflect that and yet you see even in predominantly democratic states such as NY & NJ and even California you see the outcome is the same as some of our most conservative states. So this indicates that there is no two thirds majority in favor of gay marriage.
B
No. 52 · schlukitz — Letterman is most likely trying to bait you into a sexually explicit rant that he can pass off as being typical of what gays and gay-friendly straights write.
He admitted what his tactics are:
http://www.queerty.com/is-obama-going-to-make-good-on-his-immigration-reform-promise-to-latino-voters-and-ignore-americas-gays-20091230/#comment-254995 .
Wen
AndrewW I get what youre saying, and since you guys have no other ways, you should develop the best strategies possible, and I agree you should focus more on the people for marriage equality than on those against. Just saying it’s not normal you have to work so hard for your rights. Part of a democracry (republic) is that you are granted those rights. A minority by definition is protected. If you have to work 40 years for a few steps forward, thats out of proportion. You dont even have basic anti-discrimination laws for sexual orientation. These are issues guaranteed by the constitution, not supposed to be up to the people. I dont consider the USA a democracy by the way. Not if a particular group of people is discriminated against this way.
.
Michael Letterman, we all here know you are very afraid of gay people, and that they will get their rights one day, you show it in every single post. Where I live, people like you get no respect and are encouraged to seek psychological treatment.
schlukitz
No. 58 · B
Letterman is most likely trying to bait you into a sexually explicit rant that he can pass off as being typical of what gays and gay-friendly straights write.
Yeah. And that pretty much tells us who the real pervert is here, doesn’t it? lol
schlukitz
No. 58 · B
God. What a copy-cat this Letterman is.
Check out his post no. 56. He just turns everything around that people say to him, as you have so often pointed out in the past, and keeps on lying up a storm. And this is supposed to pass for intelligent debate?
I cannot wait to read the “book” he is working on, if he can ever get such a piece of tripe published. It would indeed, make a total laughing stock out of him.
The man is as loony as a drunken bed bug.
schlukitz
No. 59 · Wen
Thank you for reiterating what I have been trying to say. You said it much better than I. It’s not normal that we should have to work so hard for the minority rights that are guaranteed to us under the Constitution.
I get absolutely livid when LGBT people play right into the hands of those who believe that basic human rights can and should be voted on by the majority.
Why are they even tolerating such a horrible miscarriage of justice to begin with and how can we ever expect to win our civil rights when we are obliged to play by the rules of our enemies?
That’s just pure insanity that makes a mockery of our Constitution and a sham of the concept of Democracy.
Wen
@61 schlukitz, isnt it truth that any straight man visiting a gay (news) site repeatedly and trolling, a sign the guy is gay as hell? Any straight man who doesnt have issues with homosexuality nor rights for them, doesnt go to sites as these. Maybe to make one or two posts in support of gay rights, then move on. That collecting of quotes the guy talked about might be a lie to hide his real feelings behind. That he loathes himself because he’s gay and needs to project his selfhatred on other gay men. Just a thought.
schlukitz
No. 59 · Wen
Secondary thought.
Trying to win our civil rights while playing according to the rules of the moral majority, is akin to the Jews trying to win their freedom while playing by the rules of the Nazis.
The deck is stacked against us.
schlukitz
No. 63 · Wen
I couldn’t agree with you more and I think that most of us on these threads, have arrived at pretty much the same conclusion about Ms. Letterman.
She’s a self-loathing closet-queen who keeps reiterating, over and over, that she is straight and married to a lively wife who was a model.
Perhaps she believes that if she repeats it enough times, it will become reality? As you so well point out, any man who is straight and comfortable with his sexuality, would not make a point of coming to a gay site, hour after hour, day after day, week after week and month after month, to keep repeating the same bullshit, over and over.
My father was born in Germany and lived there for much of his life. I’ve traveled Europe rather extensively over my lifetime and I was curious as to what part you live in, if you do not mind my inquiring?
Wen
No. 62 · schlukitz
Thank you for reiterating what I have been trying to say. You said it much better than I. It’s not normal that we should have to work so hard for the minority rights that are guaranteed to us under the Constitution.
*Yes, absolutely!!!*
I get absolutely livid when LGBT people play right into the hands of those who believe that basic human rights can and should be voted on by the majority.
*The thing is, youre being put into an almost impossible position. You have government letting you down, you have a majority voting on your rights, you are a minority, homosexuality is for many people not a popular thing etc.
The only option that is then left is to use the system the way you can by ‘playing the game’ and see where it leads to, and this hasnt been going too well (DADT, DOMA, states voting gay marriage away, ENDA). But in order to get results, youre forced to play, which means youre forced to play the voting game. And I understand why that feels so very wrong and IS wrong, it is actually a betrayal really. But this whole situation is wrong. I have a LOT of respect you are trying to live with all these injustices to deal with, Im not sure if I could handle it, to be honest, to get a slap in the face just basically every week (or every day) for simply being gay. Its not normal that you should talk and convince your fellow citizens of your rights and trying to have them not vote against you. It’s madness.
I compared it to Apartheid (while apartheid usually means the group that is being discriminated against doesnt even have basic rights like voting, see South Africa some years ago or the slaves your country once had). But to me it IS Apartheid too for gay people now. Maybe Apartheid isnt fully correct to use, but the discrimination is so bad, and your government allows it, even supports it. This is not a democracy. One of the most important foundations of a democracy is the Equal Protection/non-discrimination clause. Take that away, even if partially, and you basically are dealing with fascism. I realize this does sound extreme, but I think the situation for gay people in the USA IS extreme.
Wen
@65 schlukitz, that quoting didnt go well in my previous comment, hope you can make sense of it.
Im from the Netherlands, with gay marriage for almsot 9 years now.
This stuff whats happening with gay rights in USA is simply not possible here. Its also unconstitutional to vote on others basic rights (equality and non-discrimination rights), its illegal and unconstitutional.
AndrewW
Schlukitz said:
“Why are they even tolerating such a horrible miscarriage of justice to begin with and how can we ever expect to win our civil rights when we are obliged to play by the rules of our enemies?
That’s just pure insanity that makes a mockery of our Constitution and a sham of the concept of Democracy.”
That’s been your argument for more than 50 years. How’s that working? You are so stuck in the past you cannot see the path to victory.
I don’t have a clue about the “rules of our enemies,” (I am not obsessed with them, as you are) but I do know how to achieve LGBT Equality. You can continue to complain. I would suggest that complaining is NOT a Plan.
If you want to keep on doing what you’ve been doing and expecting different results, go for it. I’d ask you to think twice. At least twice.
schlukitz
No. 68 · AndrewW
That’s been your argument for more than 50 years. How’s that working? You are so stuck in the past you cannot see the path to victory.
And you have been getting on my case about this shit and throwing the same worn-out cliches at me ever since the day I began posting on Queerty which is now going on three years.
My question to you is, what the fuck have you managed to change or accomplish with your superior, ageist-based, know-it-all game plan over the past three years?
How’s that working?
Wen
To clarify, what I wrote to you, schlukitz, wasnt meant as in that you have no power at all, I only wanted to acknowledge the crazy position youre in and gays@lesbians are in, and that your power is really limited. But you do have some. I dont think giving up is the answer either, but to look and see where you can have some influence and if you feel okay to do something about this shit lol. But, I shouldnt talk though because Im not in your shoes.
schlukitz
Good to hear back from you, Wen. Not to worry. You made perfectly good sense in your post No. 66.
Congratulations on your relationship of 9 years. I am very happy for you and wish you both and wish you many more years of happiness together.
I visited the Netherlands way back in 1967, after a trip to Paris to attend the Semaine du Queer for a week. I stayed at the now long gone Argos Hotel in Amsterdam with a friend from New York City that I ran into quite by chance at Le Bourg Airport.
While there, we met a really nice young gentleman from Germany who enjoyed spending his spare time in Amsterdam and who very kindly took us around to see the sights. We had the good fortune of seeing a whole lot more than we would have on our own. ;P
I also have a lady-friend of many years standing, who moved to the Netherlands years ago when she met a very nice Dutch woman who was visiting New York City. In fact, they both stayed at the condo off Washington Square that I owned at the time.
They are no longer together, unfortunately, but my lady friend opted to remain there, nevertheless, since she now considers Holland her home and likes living there. She just sold her home in Amsterdam and moved to Almere.
Through the technological miracle of Skype, we are able to remain in constant touch with each other. If I ever get through working on the family house in Queens that I inherited, I would really love to make a visit to the Netherlands to spend some quality time with her.
AndrewW
Schlukitz: Read Post 54.
It’s about winning. That is something new for the LGBT Equality Movement. Winning, not whining.
**I’ve only posted on Queerty for a few months. Maybe others have been trying to change your thinking, too. There’s nothing ageist about getting over old ideas or anger and resentment. Sooner or later we all need to figure out how to win.
PopSnap
“Any attempts by the federal courts to make marriage a federal right would unleash a crushing backlash against us through an anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment.”
Really? They could hardly get enough support for that back when we had a majority Republican congress. What do you propose they do, hold a constitutional convention with the States? They’d seriously add a new amendment with the support of only 51% of the populous?
I’ve heard this said, and it is just utterly ridiculous. The nation’s become far too polarized on this issue for there to be any amendment of any type, so at least we have that behind us and can rest assured that there will be no amendment.
B
No. 68 · AndrewW wrote, “If you want to keep on doing what you’ve been doing and expecting different results, go for it.”
Guys what people have been doing is working, although progress can seem to be painfully slow. As a case in point, take Proposition Eight, but don’t just look at the outcome, look at how much it won by, and compare that to Proposition 22.
This is an interesting comparison because the wording of both initiatives is essentially identical (Proposition Eight simply moved the wording of Proposition 22 to the state constitution to prevent the state courts from overturning it.). As a result, differences in the vote reflect public opinion on same-sex marriage – you can’t attribute it to differences in what the two initiatives say.
Proposition Eight got 52.24% of the 13,743,177 votes cast.
Proposition 22 got 61.40% of the 7,881,999 votes cast.
Extrapolating linearly suggests we’d win in 2012.
Citations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)#Results
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_22_(2000)#Results_of_vote
Robert, NYC
AndrewW, if those number are correct, then our work is cut out for us. GLAD and other equality organizations apparently have acknowledged the fact and are supposedly going to embark on engaging dialog with them, a good step.
rf
“Im not sure if I could handle it, to be honest, to get a slap in the face just basically every week (or every day) for simply being gay.” – Agree, although women and blacks spent hundreds of years in this country getting exactly that. (gays too but we could, for the most part, hide from it and suffer in silence).
What people have to remember is that we were basically kicked out of England for being uptight a$$holes. Roger Williams founded Rhode Island because the Puritans in Massachusetts were using religion as a litmus test for court cases and voting rights. This is who we are.
May not matter anyway, even if we do get the right to marry, the civil unrest thats brewing, the govt printing money like theres no tomorrow, and the massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy could mean we may not have a constitution at all soon. As someone else has said here, our civil liberties are actually becoming less not more in America.
Robert, NYC
RF, I have to agree with you. What we’re seeing in this country is a society and government that allows taking away an entire group of taxpayers’ rights buy overturning them or voting them down. In a true democracy, which America isn’t, the rights of a minority must be protected according to the 14th amendment in spite of mob rule which is what this is all about. A true democracy expands rights, doesn’t remove them or worse, refuses to grant them based on religious beliefs or any other. Politicians and the electorate in general have NEVER learned to separate one’s personal beliefs from equality in general. We saw it with the civil rights movement in the 60s. Those rights were not put to a popular vote, nor have any for that matter. For those right wingers and other irrational idiots who post here, if they want voters to determine who gets rights and who doesn’t, then what they’re advocating is fascism, identical to the nazi regime and other right wing dictatorships around the globe. Anti-miscegenation laws, abortion rights, women’s rights, voting rights,school busing, equal opportunity rights, none were never put to the people. The fact that the haters who single out marriage equality for referenda are obviously nothing more than homophobic. Oh, they’ll deny it and deny its hatred, but that’s exactly what it is under a different guise. They even lie about that.
scott ny'er
Robert and RF bring up good points.
And what is the solution? Religion has crept back in and gotten stronger as every year passes by. Soon there will truly be no separation of church and state.
rf
Robert, its my belief, and of course I could be totally wrong, that gay issues being brought to vote (when no one elses were) was a recent, well thought out tactic (one of many–like wars on meaningless countries) to distract people from whats really going on. For about 20 years prior to the financial collapse, the government had been dismantling our financial regulatory system. Standard credit card rates are now in the teens to 20s. Too big to fail banks are raking in money. unemployment is out of control. insurance companies still have absolute monopolies and can legally collude. the govt is now tinkering with 401k plans, people are walking away from and being kicked out of their houses and yet, so called religious people are so very concerned with denying taxpayers basic liberties. They don’t even realize their own basic liberties, and the money in their wallets, are being chipped away at right under their noses. In insidous ways. They fall right into the hands of our government and big business and don’t even know it. Rally the sheeple to the cause and stay in power. even the term ‘gay agenda’ is a red herring. Its the ‘anti-gay’ agenda that’s running this country.
Had they thought of it, or needed it, in the 50s, referenda on blacks rights would have happened.
Michael Letterman
B: Fuzzy logic being used yet again. in 2012 our positing will be even stronger. Initial reaction to our early works has been outstanding and across the board we’ve seen a resurgence in promised votes to support our actions.
When such time comes and we release our information to the public it will no longer be necessary to have the limited distribution we now employee and I think it will turn what tide is already in our favor into a monsoon.
rf: It is called ‘consequence’ if you choose to be in an alternative lifestyle then you should be prepared to suffer the consequences of said choice. If the gays were hiding and suffering in silence how do you know they existed?
What you need remember is not all of us arrived on the Mayflower and those that did sought a land free from Religious persecution they did not flee for the right to select whatever sexual partners they wanted. Those of us who cannot trace their ancestor-ship quite that far, came to this country for other freedoms, however no one came here for the freedom to have sex with whomever they wanted. If they did they were as deluded as those who come here seeking to turn America into the next Islamic Empire.
Robert: Are you prepared to give rights to pedophiles and people who perform bestiality? Why not are you a fascist? identical to the Nazi regime and other right-wing dictatorships? The fact is you need to think of those defending marriage as ‘homophobic’ because your kind just cannot get it through their minds that if the vast majority of Americans do not want gays getting married (for many reasons both social and economic) then that is their right just as you are screaming for what you consider your rights are. What your asking for is for your rights to supersede our rights, and that just isn’t right. Call it a lie, call it whatever you want it is true and very obvious to anyone who has read the postings and glimpsed into the minds of the homosexual.
Scott: You might be confusing Conservatism and Morality for Religion. But that is an easy mistake to make.
rf: Thank you, from your lips to God’s ear.
Robert, NYC
RF, again, I totally agree with your points. I’m convinced that sooner or later its going to catch up with them. Of course the dismantling of the financial services industry began with the abolition of Glass/Steagall and lets not forget, it was under the republican watch, the ones who believe to this day that the free market can resolve most of the financial problems in society that gave way to the great depression of 1929. Their fiscal policies have NEVER worked. They believe in borrowing and paying later, hardly what one would call fiscal reponsibility as they seem to claim their party is all about. The last regime under Bush 43 spent more money than any other administration. Almost everytime a republican regime leaves office, they leave behind a trail of debt. They were the ones responsible for the recent economic meltdown and now try to pin it on this administration. The dumb electorate and teabaggers should be hit with a stupid tax for stupid people to bail out the economy. Have you ever asked any of them if they lost their jobs, their income, their homes, their health insurance, how they would access health care? They can’t give you one logical answer because they have none, much like their party platform. They claim they want no government control of anything, yet they gladly enjoy medicare, medicaid, take advantage of other government run programs such as public schools, libraries, mass transit, police, fire, the military and cheap gasoline prices (subsidized by the government). I don’t hear any of them complaining about that.
As for the recent phenomenon on gay rights being put to the voters, we are the last group of people they can hate and discriminate against and get away with it for now. They wouldn’t dare try to do it to any other group. This too will catch up with them, mark my words. They fool nobody. Let them bask in their stupidity and bigotry for now, sooner or later the tables will be turned on them. The next, younger generation of voters will put them in their place and send them packing.
Michael Letterman
b: Too late for schlukitz, he has already given me some choice items that are highlights for 2009. Being able to show the mindset of a 73 year old immigrant who has chosen to live as a homosexual is typical of the material I’ve gathered.
Of course I “admitted what his tactics are” I told you I have nothing to hide and less to fear. I can be completely honest and show how much the rest of you have to hide and fear. Which begs the question, if you do not think you are doing anything wrong why are you so filled with fear and hiding behind fake names and handles? Either someone can answer that outright or leave it to the imaginations of those who will read your words.
Wee: Being part of a democracy does NOT grant you the right to do whatever you want or sleep with whom/what ever you so desire to. The definition of a minority does not include sexual perversions. If it did include sexual perversions then we would have to grant minority status to every other perverted group and there are more of them then I could list here.
I suggest you re-read the Constitution and see that it does not grant rights to be as perverse as you want. I fear no one and no group, I know the gay people will never accomplish their agenda. Where you live I suppose they have decided to embrace perversity in their land, allowing all sorts of strange and perverse things to go on, in Asia a man recently married his anime girlfriend, vending machines dispense used schoolgirl underwear, men have mannequin girlfriends they take on dates and so on, here it will not be so.
schlukitz: The real perverts here have already revealed themselves and you are right there on the list. Check out all my posts you old queen the scrapbooks I am working on are not for publication only for the organization I belong to. When they are done with the work and it reverts back to me I will reformat it to be suitable for printing and see if anyone is interested in seeing the real mind of those discussing the ‘gay agenda’. I will be happy to provide you and all the other ‘contributors’ a free copy since you worked so hard to make it a reality.
BTW: I don’t drink as a habit just a few glasses of wine during the holidays and a glass or two of scotch when I do scotch and cigars with my friends.
If you accuse me why don’t you just prove that I have lied or turned anything around other than the way it was presented to me. I realize you cannot do this but if you want to keep saying it I challenge you to prove it. Either that or remain the silly old queen you are spouting off that which you know so little about. Crying over why no one wants to befriend you and mourning the family that never accepted what you became.
I also see you do not understand the Constitution, what your Civil Rights are or what the concept of Democracy is. No where in the description of any of these items does it say you have the right to be as depraved as you want and still get whatever rights and privileges those who are decent and proper have. I know you came here from a place that did not provide any rights but surely you can do a bit of research on your adopted homeland.
Wen: OK then we’ll use your logic and make me gay. What difference does it make to you? Is my message easier to digest if I’m as queer as a three dollar bill? Yeah the collection of quotes may be a lie or whatever. Or they may be me being honest and doing my due diligence so no one can come back later and say, “OH I wasn’t aware”. Not that it matters but it makes me feel better about things.
schlitz: There you go again back to your German roots. Always bring it around to the Jews. The deck is stacked exactly as it should be the Nazi’s killed not only Jews but homosexuals were treated just as brutally and even today you’d have a much more difficult time back ‘home’ then you are here.
Why should I not state I am straight it is a fact as is my state of marriage and the woman I am married to. Has the dementia progressed so that aside from forgetting names you have been unable to determine gender as well. That would explain a lot of things about you. I told you and all many times why I come here as well as some other sites. You keep asking the same question.
The definition of retardation is asking the same question over and over again expecting a different answer. The answer hasn’t changed yet the question persists. Me thinks you are exposing your true fears.
Wen: there are many things going on in the Netherlands that are not possible here. Let me know how it works out for you queers there when the Islamists finally take over the country. There is no basic right to be queer. In fact it is a basic perversion that we tolerate but will pass no laws to allow to marry.
Popsnap: What I want most of all, is someone to take this to the Federal level, my sub-group has prepared so many amics curiae briefs and other legal briefs and we are anxious to put our talents to use. But until that time comes we will continue to work on local and state politicians and soon the voters themselves.
AndrewW
RF, Robert NYC and Scott NY’ER:
Religion is NOT getting stronger, in fact it has been declining for decades. Religious “importance” is also declining rapidly.
The problem with the LGBT so-called “movement” is misinformation and misunderstanding. Here’s the truth:
1. The “Religious Right,” or very conservative people who self-define as “religious,” are less than one-third of all “religious” people in the US, yet we inflate their importance by constantly blaming and attacking them.
2. Two-thirds of those who self-define as “religious” in the US do NOT have a problem with us.
3. We spend most of our resources and efforts on the false hope of a “political solution” and there isn’t one. There NEVER was.
4. We have NO chance in the US Senate, no matter how much we waste with HRC and other lobbying efforts.
5. Citizen lobbyists and all other efforts to get us to contact our elected officials is a complete waste of energy. They respond to polls or beliefs, not the number of contacts they receive. It is a waste of effort. HRC’s “No Excuses” Campaign is a good example.
6. We are not “outnumbered” as HRC and other organizations repeatedly promote in an effort to raise money and defer real action. In fact, we’re actually part of an important majority: “citizens that believe in equality.”
7. We do NOTHING (as a community or movement) to enroll fellow citizens in our cause because we are too busy playing politics or expressing anger at religiously-inspired-bigots (the religious minority).
8. We do NOTHING to re-brand or re-define what it means to be “gay,” and we continue to be defined by religious zealots (again, the religious minority).
9. We contribute (as a community) an average of $200 million per year and see little to NO results. While the cultural conversation has changed moderately in our favor it is NOT because of our efforts, but in spite of them. The changes in public opinion are the result of older Americans dying (along with their conservative religious beliefs) and young people being more informed and open-minded.
10. Our dysfunctional “movement” does not have a cohesive strategy and we have been trying the same limited “tactics” for 40-50 years with the same marginal results. The movement’s goal is the uninspiring “one of these days” and there is no effort to actually WIN. All efforts are deemed “incremental” and intended to eventually add up to victory. An idea that is 40-50 years old.
2010 must be the year we inject accountability and the search for a real winning strategy to obtain full LGBT Equality – complete with a Plan and a date for completion. We must let go of the false hope of a political solution and do the work ourselves. WE must figure out how to enroll our fellow citizens in our equality. Until we do that we will never achieve real, sustainable equality.
We will be equal when people believe we are. That reality is currently available, but we have to ask for help.
Wen
Letterman, youre predictable, boring and transparent. Please come up with some real offensive stuff, you can do better than what youve written until now, Im sure of that.
Robert, NYC
Schlukitz pay that idiot no heed. He must be on the list of perverts too when he deems this site as a site for them as well as our sexual orientation, so that makes him one too. Actually, an alledged “straight” consistently on a gay blogsite is suspect and very perverse. He’s a lot like that other sicko, Peter LaBarbera another purported straight who trolls gay venues to observe guys getting it on, has one of the largest collections of gay porn he claims he uses to demonstrate examples of what gay sex is about. He probably jacks off to it. Now tell me, what sane straight male would dare to enter a gay venue to watch men having sex? Seems like the so called straights here have an equally perverse nature.
Wen
@71 schlukitz, really awesome you travelled so much and visited Amsterdam, I love the city. I travelled to NYC 2 years ago, and might do so again this year, I have a good friend living there, I absolutely love the city, would love to live there.
rf
” I also see you do not understand the Constitution,”…”or what the concept of Democracy is” – had you understood the Constituion you would know that the United States is not a democracy, its a republic. gay and dumb.
Joe Mustich, JP
Shame on NJ. But couples can still come to CT to wed until Jersey enters the 21st century.
Onward to equality, Joe Mustich,
Justice of the Peace,
Washington, Connecticut, USA.
Daniel
Letterman, you are a joke. The Nazis were Christians who gleefully violated the human rights of millions of other people in the name of their deity. Hitler was a Roman Catholic in good standing, even at the end. The USA is also filled with rightwing Christians violating the human rights of millions of other people. The comparison is completely valid. The Holocaust was carried out by Christians – white Christians. And you really wonder why Muslims and Hindus distrust white Christian-run countries? For all the complaints, white Christians have the largest kill rate of any race or religious group on the planet, hands down.
Daniel
You are also forgetting that Americans mass-murdered each other during the U.S. Civil War, each side trumpeting the Christian deity as the source of their righteousness. In reality, they are just bloodthristy as any other religious group; the others just don’t have the pretense of pretending otherwise. America has ended its democracy in most states by voting away the basic elements of democracy; if you simply have to outnumber people to vote away their human rights (which is what Americans in most states have affirmed), then all the top human rights violators are subject to the same thing – people getting together and voting away their human rights however they please. That’s why it is pathetic too many USA Americans were too ignorant or bigoted to keep democracy alive.
Robert, NYC
Daniel, #89 and the amount of straight porn subscribers is highest in red states, a known fact. The bulk of the world’s wars, all started by straights and sex crimes, mainly rape of women, over 98% of them committed by straights in the U.S., not to mention adultery, prostitution, importation of sex workers from the far east, the list is endless. Most of our prisons are also overwhelmingly filled with straight offenders. They have NOTHING to be proud of. And they assume the upper hand of moral authority? Please!
Joe Mustich, JP, #88…yes we can take comfort knowing that we New Yorkers can come to your state and in doing so deliberately harm the economy of our state while pouring millions of dollars into Connecticut’s state coffers, ditto for NJ. Think of the loss of tax revenues for both states and the negative impact of local and other business that stand to benefit from our marriage preparations. At least we in NYS can marry elsewhere and our marriages are recognized in our own state, so its not all gloom and doom as many seem to think.
Wen
91@ Robert, NYC, thank you for pointing out the real perverts of this planet are straight men.
Robert, NYC
Wen, you’re welcome. They always have been and always will be by their numbers per capita, worldwide. They have the monopoly on it. They don’t really see it as perversion though, just normal but aberrant behavior not necessarily perverted just because of their straight orientation. They’d rather a foster child be raised in an abusive straight foster home than in a loving home of a gay couple who in most cases can often provide a much better future for the child. I once heard a woman on the Phil Donahue show some years ago defend a straight sex abuser as being ok because he was straight and so was the girl he abused, go figure. Nobody called him a pervert either or used his sexual orientation to villify him.
schlukitz
Thank you for your words of solace and comfort, Robert,NYC. If it were not for the nice folks like you and all the other kind-hearted souls who come to queerty daily to share their information, thoughts and support of the LGBT community, I think I would have stopped coming here a long time ago.
It is apparent that Gestapo Herr Letterman is here to stay…and with Queerty’s blessings, no less. The latter fact disturbs me a lot. Obviously, heated controversy makes for lots of hits and the advertisers who buy space on these threads could care less about who gets trashed, so long as it sells their products.
As you suggest, paying him no mind, is the best advice. He isn’t worthy of our time or our consideration. It’s just sad that a website whose purpose it is to serve the LGBT community, turns a deaf ear and a blind eye to what people like Letterman are doing to this site.
Thanks again for sharing the milk of human kindness, Robert.
schlukitz
Wen, I am delighted to hear that you visited New York City two years ago and found it to be to your liking. We are complimented by your comment that you would love to live here.
Now that I once again have a place in the city to spend time in, should you decide to come and visit your good friend here, I hope that you will contact me if you have the time available, as it would be nice to make your acquaintance in person.
Btw, did I mention to you that my Filipino partner and I have a friend from Holland living with us in the Philippines? Middle-aged and a real nice person, he decided a couple of years ago that he wanted to live in a country where the pace of life is a little slower. And believe, living in the Philippines is definitely a slower pace of life.
He makes our home a happier place and we really enjoy sharing it with him. He loves it there and I have no reason to believe that he will ever leave the Philippines. ;P
Sam
While everyone advocates removing ML because of his idiocy and hatred, we also have to endure the “courtship of Wen,” while ignoring the thread topic.
Wen
@96, Sam, Im a woman. No need to be jealous, dear. Wen is a female name, like Sam could also be female. Youre free to get this back on topic if that is how you feel. Or you can post in the other NJ topic if this bothers you.
@95, schlukitz, I will keep you in mind for sure and thanks for your comments on Holland as well. 🙂
B
No. 96 · Sam wrote, “While everyone advocates removing ML because of his idiocy and hatred, we also have to endure the “courtship of Wen,” while ignoring the thread topic.
… no comment about Wen (don’t really know much about Wen) but in No. 80 Letterman really made a fool of himself by using the term “fuzzy logic” as a put-down (with regard to me pointing out the shift in the mean public opinion between when Prop 22 passed and when Prop 8 passed). In fact, what I used was linear extrapolation to determine that we’d have a good chance of winning a repeal of Proposition 8 in 2012. Fuzzy logic is completely different, and one can read about it in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic at an introductory level (and it’s actually used in some consumer products).
Then in No. 82, he tried to justify his sleazy tactic of baiting people and tried to turn it into a question of my identity (Letterman had promised to divulge whatever personal information anyone asked, so I gave him a list going down to street address to see where he’d back down, and he’s been trying to weasel out of the fact that you cannot trust any promise he makes ever since.)
The reason to remove him from the site is not merely ignorance and hatred, but malice – he’s trying to bait people to get material that he can use in some twisted way to generate more anti-gay propaganda for some group he claims to be in.
Go_Figure
“B” is actually Michael Letterman. Weird, huh?
Andrew
Sad turn of events indeed. For me, the pain is only greater as I live in “Senator” Doherty’s district. Yes, Michael Doherty is my representative in the NJ Senate. Lucky me.
Michael Letterman
Robert: I hate to correct you but you mean “Bush 43 spent more money than any other administration” other than the present one. BHO has spent more money by far then any president in the history of this country and more than any two presidents combined. How could the Republicans be responsible for a meltdown that happened six months into the new administration, what did they not see it coming? Get real and get informed.
Andrew: your numbers are way off with 2/3 or the religious not having a problem with gays. 100% of the fundamentalist religious are against you and fully 60% of the Conservatives while the less religious tolerate gays it does depend on the religion. Islamics hate gays 100% across the board even the most liberal Islamics hates gays, and Islamics are one of the largest growing denominations in this country. The rest of your post I more or less agree with but the fools will never see the truth in your words.
Wen: Did you predict I’d call you a douchefag idiot. Of course I could but why waste the good stuff on your ilk?
Robert: You suspect much while I fully admit what I’m doing here. I could care less about what gay sex is about what I care is what those who promote gay sex is about, “The Mindset of Those Who Have Adopted the Homosexual Agenda”. Catchy no? Yeah you’d like to think us decent, pure people are as perverse as you are but too bad for that, we aren’t. Yes Virgina there are straight decent folk out there who are not fundamentalist and yet think the gay agenda much be thwarted.
Wen: Just what NY city needs. Another foreign lezzie. I thought we had our quota.
rf: Yeah my wife is the one who had to take Constitutional law classes I just audited a few. But I never said the US was a democracy? If you read what I wrote it was the concept of Democracy not a Democratic Country. Yes I agree with you, you are both gay and dumb.
Joe: You mean until CT re-evaluates DOMA which will be shortly, in fact I assure you this will happen before BHO leaves office. I know we have politicians from there clamoring for our informational packets.
BTW Joe don’t brag about being a JOP any fool can get selected for that post.
Daniel: OK no fee for the humor. You want to compare Hitler and the Christian movement, OK by me. It makes no sense since the Nazi’s were many religions as was all of Germany and if you want to single one out go for it. The Holocaust was carried out by a nation not by a religion. There is much information out there but the Holocaust is something I’m very familiar with. When did I say I wondered why Muslims and Hindus distrust white anything?
Yes I agree with you Christians have the largest kill rate I’m not familiar with their history much and no only what I’m told about that religion.
Daniel: I forgot that? Nope I don’t think that is correct I think I know the history of America’s atrocities all too well. What I think is you made the frequent mistake of thinking since I’m anti gay marriage I must be Christian. I’m not nor do I know that much about em. Democracy is alive and well in America in the freedoms she offers. Just because we don’t cater to every sexual deviation out there doesn’t mean we are not Democratic and free. Well more Representational and free.
Oh and Daniel there is no human right to screw a walrus, there is no human right to screw a tree, there is no human right to screw a anime character and there is no human right to screw a member of your own gender. Neither basic nor any in any other way a right to do any of those things.
Robert: Stop getting your facts from liberal news agencies because it makes you look idiotic when you repeat something that is just basically dead wrong. The only reason the jails are filled with straight offenders is because they haven’t make your particular perversion illegal. We have nothing to be proud of???
How about this country we built, the wars we have won to spread democracy, oh forget it there are so many examples I’d have to be up all night to list them. If you don’t get it by now then I suggest you leave. Not the forum the country. The NY’ers who leave to marry in CT well I say good riddance don’t come back. But soon CT will come to its senses.
Wen: You’re still an idiot.
Robert: Fully all gays are perverts so right there you have a monopoly on it. Talk about old news Phil Donahue what was that two decades ago? You’re dating yourself ya old queen.
schlukitz: Brown nose too I see. What you meant to say was thank you all for thinking like I do. I like knowing I’m not alone in my thoughts. I’m one of the crowd and that makes me feel accepted. Come on say the truth. Your an old loveless queen who pines for someone he can’t get the balls up to go be with. The only milk you know of isn’t kindness it’s what you use to soften up your oatmeal so you don’t need put in your dentures. And just how sick do you have to be to open your house up to a foreign queer who you do not know. Talk about reaching the bottom and willing to do anything for a sex partner. Wow that goes right into the scrapbook and gets highlighted.
B: There ya go again twisting words you knew fully well what I was saying but if you it is common verbiage. But like the wanker you are you need to dissect it and turn it into something else. OK I’ll retract Fuzzy Logic since you are so concerned about it and just say it plainly. You are a dumb-ass. I don’t need to bait anyone they seem as brilliant as you which is to say not at all.
Show us where I baited anyone.. oh that’s right you cannot. Furthermore you continue to hide like the craven little coward you are. So why bother to peak out at my posts you moron. Why not have something original to say.
Robert, NYC
Schlukitz my friend, you are more then welcome.
Letterman, not his real name, though he chides the rest of us for using aliases, now claims we’re all perverts. I bet if you contacted every right wing hate group, NOM, Focus on the Family, Americans for Truth and the rest, you won’t find his name listed nor would anyone recognize it. Getting back to his claim about our perversion. According to the religious wackos, sodomy in the form of fellation or cunnilingus is forbidden and considered a perversion. Now that brings me to another point. I wonder if he eats his alledged “wife” out before he fucks her, assuming he can even do that of course, or does she suck his little wiener, yuck, the thought of it! Sodomy from what we know is one of the favorite sex practices of many straight males, both single or married and if they can’t get it at home, they seek whores or call girls to satisfy their “perversion” if you will, then run home to the wife or girl friend. They have and always will have the monopoly on perversion. Believe me, not one of the hate groups would dare to condemn them.
Wen
Hey Michael, you can do much better than this. Ive seen much worse coming from people of your ilk. You dont wanna stay behind them, right? Or do you?
Michael Letterman
Robert: What do you mean Letterman is not my real name? My father was a Letterman as was his father and so on. My name has been Letterman since it appeared on my birth certificate. So get a grip on reality you utter fool.
I’ve always claimed you were all perverts I have stated from my first post that I think homosexual acts are themselves acts of perversion. No you won’t find my name on right wing hate groups since I’m not a member of the right wing. No idea what the religious wackos think is perversion I speak for myself not any religious faction.
I’d rather you not think of sex between me and my wife as it as about as much of your business as your gobbling anoymous cocks is mine. Perversion is you on your knees saying “NEXT” at the local truck stop while Bubba rests his 44 oz. on your head as you attempt yet again to please your master “for the moment” in your quest for a pat on the back and a grumbled “attaboy”.
Wen: Yes I can but why waste it on some forigen lezzie who shares my love of women. You my dear one are just competition for guys who don’t know how to please a girl. I don’t have that problem as I have had the pleasure of pleasing the same girl for the last thirty years the last twenty two of them as man and wife. What do you know of ‘my ilk’ you know little about me and yet you claim to understand.
I suggest you continue with your travel to NY perhaps you’ll find a nice man who will show you what you have been missing NY men are some of the best lovers in the world. But I’m sure you’ll find out about that for yourself. Just don’t expect schliktz to staistfy you well unless he gets his penile pump fixed.
Wen
@104, Michael, you may not know this, but homophobic men, like you always have issues with women or even hate women. So, I know your woman has not a good life with you. Also, as I said to you before, you fail again and again to humiliate me and your efforts are real transparant. You could continue, but you only show more of your psychological problems to people here. I wish your wife all the best.
Wen
@104 and Michael, I know it terribly frustrates and angers you your male ego and dick have no effect on gay women. One doesnt need to be a gay woman though to find men like you repulsive. Many straight women do, too. Many straight men even do, and ofcourse many gay men do too. Youre a textbook heterosexual homophobe that is perverted, not even only sexually, but also mentally. Hate is a perversion. As I said, you need mental health counseling, that’s how deep you are in trouble, mentally, but you fail to help yourself. Oh well, it’s your life, you can do with it whatever you want, even if that means being unhappy.
MICHAEL LETTERMAN IS A SELF HATING FAG
To All, I am sorry I realize I am a total tool. For too long I have denied that I really love cock. I will no longer hide my true feelings that I love to suck cock and am a bottom. I am sorry that I have been such a dick in thee posts. Its only because I was in denial all that time. I am truly sorry and won’t do it again.
Love, a gay like all you guys, Michael Letterman.
Michael Letterman
Wen: Of course I wouldn’t know it, homophobic implies fear of homosexuality, which is something I do not fear. I just don’t agree with it and it repulses me like I imagine being subservient and catering to a man’s sexual needs would do to you. Though I do not claim that is so, just something I imagine more likely from a lesbian. Furthermore I have no issues with women and no one hates women less than I do. In fact I treat women with kindness and consideration and have kept one special woman happy with me for thirty years.
I don’t fail to humiliate you because I don’t try to humiliate you, you do that nicely on your own. It was you who first came after me with your snide comment and I responded in kind. If you came to me with open honest debate in mind I would have done the same to you. That is how I operate.
Wen, what effect would I want to have on a gay woman? There is nothing a gay or even non gay woman can offer me that I can’t get better from my own wife. Coming from the world of fashion models she has had her experiences dealing with lesbians and so have I. Neither of us have any use for one and find them mostly to be obnoxious and arrogant. One of my neighbors is a Lesbian and she fits this to a T. She is about as coarse as a long haul trucker and about as fun to talk to as one would be.
She however, as a neighbor is invited to all our parties and we treat her as we would any other woman. To say I have frustration of any sort is to prove, yet again, you know nothing about me. While more and more about you becomes apparent.
That you find me repulsive is a nice complement from you. Long before I was married and while I was dating I never had a complaint from a woman other than my unwillingness to settle down and have a family due to my job. In fact just to further prove you wrong. The girl I dated prior to getting married, has still kept in contact with me twenty two years after we parted. She has been through five marriages and three children and still asks her boyfriends to talk to me to learn how to completely satisfy a women. What greater compliment can any woman/man/thing give to me then that?
Hate isn’t perversion, hate is emblematic of fear and I do not fear nor hate gays. I just do not believe in the lifestyle for myself nor do I think there should be rights granted solely on the basis of who you choose to have sex with be that a member of your own sex, an animal or an inanimate object. I would say that you are the one requiring mental health help but frankly I think you are beyond that help.
I have a wonderful life filled with love and friendship, I am enjoying the fruits of my labors as is my wife and we have everything, not only that a couple could need, but could want as well. A cellar of wine, the love of a good woman, the friendship of decent people, a job I excel in and organizations to occupy my down time. I am a fully happy and satisfied person. Can you say the same?
The only thing that would make me unhappy is seeing marriage defamed by homosexuals or watching them rear children, fortunately until that happens in NY or Texas I have nothing to worry about. But as long as you can use your imagination and make up this fantasy horror of a life up for me I guess it makes you feel like more of a ‘normal’ moral human so I suppose I shouldn’t take that away from you since it is what makes you happy and you are unable to take anything away from my happiness.
Still at it Evan? I haven’t forgotten about you. In fact just this week a memo came across my desk with your name on it. I expect I’ll have my last laugh very soon. Someone needs to teach you manners and I am happy to do it.
Michael Letterman
BTW evan, even if I was gay I would just do the only honorable thing and not live that lifestyle. I would seek the cure or failing that off myself and save my family the embarrassment.
About time you thought about doing that for yourself and save me a trip.
MICHAEL LETTERMAN IS A SELF HATING FAG
Michael, we said we wern’t going to do this anymore. We are Gay, we admit it now. We don’t have to hide behind “straight” Michael any more. No more fake wives, lives, and such. We love cock and we said we wern’t going to be a tool on these posts any more………if you continue I am not going to allow you to get fucked tonite!!!!
Michael Letterman
Evan, I am as straight as an arrow as decent as can be and as honest as I am able. There is absolutely nothing gay about me. But for you a douchefag to use ‘gay’ as a slur is absolutely the most humorous thing I’ve heard this weekend.
I don’t intend to get ‘fucked’ tonight or any night in my life. If I make love it will be with my wife and because we both desire to. While you may be lucky to score an old queen depressed about his long distant love affair (barf) when he finds out his lover (gag) is now bonking his new roommate. Or maybe a greasy trucker or meth head who’ll let anyone blow him for his next ‘hit’.
You were duly warned, I tried to give you some time to come to your senses and yet you persist. Cie la vie you have no one to blame but yourself.
At the least I can nail you for using my name in your account. See that’s one of those things I’m allowed to protect and defend I was telling you about.
Michael Letterman
michael letterman is a self-hating fag makes me laugh. it’s true.
schlukitz
Michael Letterman just said to Evan, in post no. 10
I would seek the cure or failing that off myself and save my family the embarrassment.
About time you thought about doing that for yourself and save me a trip.
How much more blunt must a death threat be, before someone does something about this?
MICHAEL LETTERMAN IS A SELF HATING FAG
Michael C’mon silly you get so caught up sometimes you forget that we don’t use our real name on these posts! We need to get a life, lets go to a tea dance!
(god this is delicious, you a probably at a boiling point now. can sense the steam comin out of your ears bout now……..)
Wen
@108, again, Michael, you’re not offensive enough. All you say is what homophobes have said 1000 times before, youre just a classic case. I understand youre in denial of reality. Homophobes suffer from Narcissism. And then not the healthy narcissism, but the unhealthy form. Ive spotted lots of unhealthy narcissism in you. And dont feel too good about receiving so much attention, because its all negative. Not that for you good or bad attention does matter, attention to you is attention. Now, my guess is you suffer from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (also because Ive seen your sadistic behaviors in your comments, like enjoying other’s pain). It could even be you have sociopathic traits with that. I know all you tell us here, are lies, that youre a pathological liar. Okay. Narcissists, and from what Ive seen from stuff you wrote, hate everything, including men and woman. And themselves. You might not even spot your selfhatred, as youre too disconnected from yourself, as narcissists often are. They also think they are superior to others, but they feel actually the opposite way, inferior. In this case gay men and women are threatening to your self identity, which consists of emptiness, self loathing and selfhate. And since you fail to create a healthy sense of self, you need to control others as to keep yourself in tact. The only cure for this, for as far as narcissism can be cured, is extensive therapy. And even then, depending on the seriousness of your Personality Disorder, you may never have a healthy personality.
Youre here on Queerty, because you hate yourself for your own homosexual desires and want to show others by being so ‘mean’ you have no homosexual inclinations whatsoever. But we know better. The other reason is you need the (negative) attention, like a drug. It’s an addiction. So, best is to totally ignore you. I was thinking just an hour ago what happened to you in your life that made you this way, you must have been abused, maybe sexually, but for sure, mentally to become this way. Or maybe you were too spoilt, which causes the same issues. Well, there is a lot of work for you to do, but we’ve got you pegged. I wont pay further attention to you, because really, it’s of no use to me.
And LOL @ ‘Michael Letterman is a selfhating fag’. There it is in a nutshell.
Michael Letterman
@No. 114 · MICHAEL LETTERMAN IS A SELF HATING FAG
It is delicious. I admit, I’ve been wrong. And I take back everything I said. I am all about the LGBT movement. I back marriage for everyone, even though I am as straight as an arrow and as decent as can be and as honest as I am able. I think every American should have the same rights.
Wen
@113 schlukitz ‘Michael Letterman just said to Evan, in post no. 10
I would seek the cure or failing that off myself and save my family the embarrassment.’
This translates into ‘I would seek the cure of my homosexuality or failing that off myself and save my family the embarrassment (of my homosexuality)’.
If you read all his posts this way, you will see he’s projecting his selfhatred of his own homosexual desires on you and me and other gays and lesbians. Thats it, its real simple.
And yes thats a death threath and should be removed or he should be banned. If Queerty doesnt, ignore him if you can.
David DC
Post Number 83 has it figured out.
I wish people would understand where we are really as a community and switch gears. We don’t have a movement and we certainly haven’t made much progress. I’m 62 years old – I’ve seen the repetitive nature of our efforts and I have lived through too many defeats. Politicians are not going to save us.
We need a new direction and I think the ideas expressed in Post Number 83 are a great start.
Young people please read it and re-read it.
terrwill
No. 113 · schlukitz: Touche’ my friend! I wasn’t gonna cyberstroll over to Queerts today but these last posts have made my freakin’ day! How long you think until Letterman’s head explodes???
> And did he say in #111 that he wants to “nail” a guy?? : P
rf
Usage of the term “douchefag” in any context is proof positive that someone is gay.
rf
…especially one that apparently has a thing for truckers.
schlukitz
No. 119 · terrwill
How long you think until Letterman’s head explodes???
We can only hope that it will be soon…real soon! lol
And yeah. I caught that comment about “nailing” a guy. One has to wonder about the context in which he meant it? Assisting someone with “offing” themselves..or getting it on with a guy? ;P
Happy Sunday.
schlukitz
No. 117 · Wen
If you read all his posts this way, you will see he’s projecting his selfhatred of his own homosexual desires on you and me and other gays and lesbians. Thats it, its real simple.
You’re right on the money, Wen. I couldn’t agree with you more.
No. 121 · rf
Usage of the term “douchefag” in any context is proof positive that someone is gay…especially one that apparently has a thing for truckers.
I do believe that you’ve “nailed” Letterman. ;P
And a happy Sunday to you both, as well.
Wen
@123 schlukitz, lol @ the ‘nailing’, and you and your partner have a great Sunday (evening by now) as well.
Michael Letterman
Evan: But you see mongrel I do use my real name. I have no need for a fake “handle” But if you continue I will seek repense for the unauthorized use of my name. I’ll give you some time to check with your laywer. Just ask him what the penalties are for “posing as a federal law enforcement officer” and using someone else’s full name to identfy yourself is. Forget the monetary damages you’d be looking at a lengthly stay in a federal prison. If I wanted to I’d just pull a subpoena on Queerty to match your two fake handles which make use of my full name and see what email address they link to. Trust me I have a whole department of hackers who do nothing but what we ask them to.
I am not mad, I understand the need for you to express yourself in such a manner however I must obey the law and so must you. I’m doing my due dilligence here and I will be less friendly about it moving forward. Make the call you might be surprised to find out what can happen to you.
Wen: Again I have little reason to be offensive but thank you for so stating it. It will look good in the scrapbook. I deny the reality? I live the reality. I’m neither homophobic nor narcissistic. What you see in me but don’t understand is decency. I get it decency is not something common to you so you must try to identify something without the ability to understand it yourself.
Spare me your dime store psycology mumbo jumbo. I’m here and elsewhere to document the type of people who have a gay agenda or an perverse agenda of any kind. For the purpose of assembling written examples of how your kind enter into the debate and the attitude you bring to the subject.
I won’t bother reading your whole nonsense you want to make it personal I got it. But if we want to kick in my traning then we will have to examine what turned you into a lesbian, dominering mother? weak or missing father? rape at an early age? seduction by older lesbian maybe teacher or care giver? we can go on and on. Your case book material. Lash out at me becauase I point out that which you hate about yourself.
I’m sorry I wish I could make the bad dreams go away for you but I fear you are beyond that now. Well don’t worry there are still those of us out there who will make sure you don’t fall too far astray. We will pray for you and we will pity you. We won’t let you down.
schlukitz: You really are an old idiot queen if I was going to kill anyone I wouldn’t threaten them first in a public forum. I’ve worked too many cases to make that mistake. There are far worse things then death at my disposal.
terrwill: I’d say a long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long time but it would be easier to just say never.
Oh and in my profession “nailing” a guy has a much more interesting connotation then what you think it means.
rf: OK then by that logic I must be gay. Though I would never ever have sex with a male and will only have sex with a female whom I happen to be married to. So I guess I’m pretty horrible at it.
schlukitz: If you read my posts from any perspective other than the one I wrote it on you’re bound to see all kinds of things that your bias points you to. But if you have half a brain you will see from my posts exactly what I think about gay marriage and adoption and other gay agenda items you will also see how easily you twist my words to suit your own meanings. But then you must hate your life sending money to the phillipians so your former lover can cuddle with his new roommate.
Oh and when I “nail” someone I often use actual ten penny nails. Other times we use it as a euphamisim for our service weapons as in a “nail gun”.
Michael Letterman
In the end, anything we say doesn’t really matter.
Michael Letterman
I agree. Just words.
terrwill
Found an interesting nugget about our friend Michael Letterman, it seems that there are some people who are more than a little interested in his antics………..
http://rainfish2000.blogspot.com/2009/12/wanted-information-on-cyber-terrorist.html
Robert, NYC
Terrwill, wow. I just looked at it. All of us should pass this along to everyone, every equality organization we know. I suspect there are links to Fred Phelps and his gang of haters. He’s currently under surveillance by the way by state and federal authorities. Thanks for posting that, very helpful.
schlukitz
And my thanks to you as well, Terwill for posting this item.
And good to hear that he’s currently under surveillance by the state and federal authorities, Robert.
Robert, NYC
Schlukitz, to avoid any confusion, Fred Phelps and his gang are under surveillance, not the other one as of yet. Its a good thing for all of us to keep copies of everything these haters say on blogsites just in case the feds or state agencies need the public’s assistance in nailing these bastards down once and for all. Sooner or later it catches up with them when they cross the line a bit too far when they issue threats as we’ve seen on this blogsite. Queerty better watch it if it wants to remain a viable blogsite. Some of these haters purposely invade sites to not only agitate and stir up trouble but to turn people off and to eventually shut them down when we’re telling the truth about them. That’s why supporters of Prop. 8 don’t want the repeal case televised. They’re that cowardly, they don’t want the public to see just exactly who they are. They can’t even take ownershp of their own hatred, and even in that they lie. Sick people for sure. The fact of the matter is, they know we’re exposing them which leadsthem to resort to doing what they do. If they weren’t that threatened or not fearful of us, they wouldn’t bother coming here, no question about it. However, their obsession with gay sexuality by trolling these sites is quite revealing. They’re the utter fools, not us. Its so transparent what they’re about. None of them are straight either, notice how they protest when you challenge them? They come up with all kinds of lame excuses, such as, “I’m married”, lol. Anyone can say that and pass themselves off as a “wannabe” straight, just as the so-called, delusional ex-gays do.
schlukitz
Hi Robert. Thank you for the clarification.
I think your suggestion for all of us to keep copies of everything these haters say on blogsites in the event that they are needed as proof by the feds or state agencies is a good one.
I fully agree with your comments. These people are cowards and enjoy doing their dirty work under the cover of darkness and anonymity. If they had nothing to hide, there would be no objections to TV coverage of the trial that began today. In fact, they would welcome it in the hope of getting their message out to as many people as possible.
As I said to Wen earlier, they only people they want to have hear their message, are those who are members of their own, little, card-carrying, private hate-club of which you have to be a dues-paying and contributing member.
Does this sound any different than the KKK or the despised Brown Shirts in WWII Germany?
Michael Letterman
No need to worry Mr. Evans will soon be contacted by my overpriced and highly effective lawyer for libel charges. Thank you for pointing out this page to me.
This will be fun for me as I have not engaged in a personal case like this in a long time. Luckily being married to someone in the legal profession I have all the attorneys I could ever require at my disposal. Again thank you.
Michael Letterman
schlukitz: Ya old queen finally something intelligent comes out of your mind. You should keep copies of every post. This is what I do both electronicly and one hard copy for the scrapbook. But unlike Mr. Evans I keep both the original post and the resposes. This is where Mr. Evans made his soon to be fatal mistake. In posting only one side of the conversation thereby taking it completely out of context while using my name he put himself at risk and I will take full advantage of that.
B
In No 101, Michael Letterman whined after making a fool of himself by using words he didn’t understand. Letterman’s whine: “B: There ya go again twisting words you knew fully well what I was saying but if you it is common verbiage.”
The facts: Letterman used a term “fuzzy logic” which he probably heard somewhere without knowing it is a technical term for a type of multivalued logic that has applications in various consumer products (mostly from Japan and Europe).
Rather than admit that he was throwing around terminology he didn’t understand, he then whined, “You are a dumb-ass. I don’t need to bait anyone they seem as brilliant as you which is to say not at all. Show us where I baited anyone..”
ROTFLMAO! What a liar Letterman is. He calls someone far more educated and smarter than him a “dumb-ass”, In No. 56 he accuses another poster of “dementia”. In 109, he suggests that non-celibate gays should commit suicide and makes what might be considered a death threat against some imaginary friend named “evan” (nobody was using that name, which more or less came out of nowhere). Or go to http://www.queerty.com/is-obama-going-to-make-good-on-his-immigration-reform-promise-to-latino-voters-and-ignore-americas-gays-20091230/#comment-254995 (where he admits baiting, although not using that particular term) and scroll back to look at Letterman’s comments, with their copious use of various ‘f’ words referring to sexual orientation.
Finally, he whines about me not giving him information I never promised to divulge – Letterman is still mad that he was caught not fulling a promise he made regarding giving out personal information.