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MN Archbishop John Nienstadt To Parishioner: Reject Gay Son Or Go To Hell.

Minnesota Archbishop John Nienstadt responded to a parishioner’s letter by telling her that she should reject her gay son or she too will go to hell.

This past weekend, the Star-Tribune published Nienstedt’s letter as part of a story on his campaign to pass a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage in Minnesota.

The letter dates to May 2010, and is a reply to a note from a mother asking for “acceptance for her gay child.”

I write to inform you that the teaching of the Catholic Church on homosexuality, as described in paragraphs 2357 and 2358 and 2359 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is rooted in Scripture and based on the Natural Moral Law.

It therefore shares in God’s revelation to us. Catholics are bound in conscience to believe this teaching. Those who do not cannot consider themselves to be Catholic and ought not to participate in the sacramental life of the Church. Indeed, some might find this is a hard saying by many of Jesus’ teachings were likewise received as such.

I urge you to reconsider the position that you expressed in your letter. Your eternal salvation may well depend upon a conversation of heart on this topic.

Yowza, that’s a bit sterner than the usual “love the sinner, hate the sin,” garbage we usually hear from the religious crowd!

In a statement condemning Nienstedt’s letter, Truth Wins Out’s John Becker stated:

“Telling the parent of an LGBT child that she ‘ought not to participate in the sacramental life of the Church’ unless she renounces her pro-equality views—and that her ‘eternal salvation may well depend upon’ her willingness to accept the Catholic Church’s anti-gay teachings— is spiritual bullying of the highest order and utterly reprehensible.  What kind of spiritual leader demands that a mother reject her child in order to save her soul?”

Good question, John.

 

 

By:           Dan Avery
On:           Oct 10, 2012
Tagged: , , , , , , , , , ,

  • 21 Comments
    • Cam
      Cam


      This past weekend, the Star-Tribune published Nienstedt’s letter as part of a story on his campaign to pass a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage in Minnesota.

      ____________________________

      Why do we have laws against churches participating in the politicial process in exchange for tax exempt status if nothing is ever going to be done about it when they violate that?

      This guy is breaking that law. The Mormon Church funnelled millions of man hours and money into the fight against gay rights bills nationwide including funding NOM. PAstors from MD. are holding events to try to stop marriage in that state.

      If the govt. is never going to do anything then people shouldn’t form PACs to donate money to candidates, they should form churches.

      Oct 10, 2012 at 11:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Aidan8
      Aidan8

      Mom should follow only one part of the bishop’s advice: leave the church. Run as fast away from it… and love your son. The bishop is already in hell.

      Oct 10, 2012 at 1:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dumdum
      Dumdum

      I know just a broken record, I. But really, if the Romans had just fed ALL of the Christians to those poor starved lions, we could have avoided so much war, pain and hurt.. Muslims would not hate us. But the Abrahamic religions have become so convoluted, that ANYONE! JOHN JONES, DAVID KORESH, the effing mormans??????? WAIT, an angel of god just came in me. I mean came to me. And said.” you must love everyone and everything always”. Except those people they are too different so just KILL THEM. I long for the day that human kind is wiped out, you people make me SICK you make the EARTH sick. PARASITES ALL. Piss off and die.YOU stupid bloody Wankers!!!

      Oct 10, 2012 at 2:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ogre Magi
      Ogre Magi

      I don’t know why some gay people pretend that the catholics are somehow better than the evangelicals?

      Oct 10, 2012 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dumdum
      Dumdum

      Oh please! This is so much more interesting. And it can be applied to everyone and everything.Kathy Maister’s Start Cooking

      Video
      Blog
      Browse
      Search

      How to Cook a Pork Roast
      print recipe card posted in Main Dishes by Kathy Maister
      Difficulty:
      previous | next

      Many people just learning to cook are often a bit hesitant cooking a large piece of meat. It seems so intimidating! Well, it doesn’t need to be, at all. This boneless pork roast is a great place to begin. All that is necessary to cook this roast is to mix some dried spices with olive oil, rub it all over the roast and put it in the oven. That’s it!

      Roasting a boneless pork loin roast slowly will guarantee moist, tender meat.

      Loin refers to the type of cut.

      Put the oven rack in the center of the oven and preheat the oven to 450 degrees.

      There is often a thin layer of fat on one side of the roast. Do not trim off this fat. It will help to keep the meat nice and moist.

      Always position the pork roast in the pan so that fat side is on the top.

      Measure one tablespoon of olive oil in a small dish.

      Add 1 Tablespoon of dried spices to the oil. You can use rosemary, sage, thyme, or oregano; or a combination of these that equal 1 tablespoon.

      Add ½ teaspoon of salt and ¼ teaspoon of ground black pepper.

      Mix this spice rub together and rub it all over the pork roast.

      Be sure to rub the spices into the top and bottom.

      Place the roast on a rack in a roasting pan, fat side up.

      If you don’t have a rack you could coil some tin foil and use that as a rack.

      Put the roast in the 450 degree preheated oven. The hot temperature is going to give the roast a nice golden color.

      Set the timer for 10 minutes.

      When the timer goes off re-set the oven temperature to 250 degrees.

      Continue cooking about 50-80 minutes or until the meat registers 145 degrees on a meat thermometer. Some roasts are long and thin and others are short and fat, consequently the cooking times will vary depending on the shape of your roast. The meat thermometer is the best way to judge the right amount of cooking time.

      (As of May 24, 2011 the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is updating its recommendation for safely cooking pork. USDA recommends cooking whole cuts of pork to 145 °F as measured with a food thermometer placed in the thickest part of the meat, then allowing the meat to rest for three minutes before carving or consuming. Ground meats, including ground beef, veal, lamb, and pork, which should be cooked to 160 °F and do not require a rest time. The safe cooking temperature for all poultry products, including ground chicken and turkey, remains at 165 °F.)

      Remove the roast from the oven and set on a cutting board. Cover the meat with tin foil and let it rest for about 15 minutes before slicing it. The temperature of the roast will continue to rise about another 5 degrees.

      You will get at least 6 servings out of this beautiful 3-pound pork roast.

      Oct 10, 2012 at 3:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dumdum
      Dumdum

      Suck on that!!! Bi#$hes. It is a METAPHOR. For those of you who take EVERY comment at face value. What a pisser!!!!!!

      Oct 10, 2012 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TomMc
      TomMc

      as described in paragraphs 2357 and 2358 and 2359

      He forgot to mention [paragraphs] §§ 175, 175a and b (1933–1943). No doubt Ratzinger will correct him.

      Oct 10, 2012 at 4:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ait10101
      ait10101

      These guys (and they are all guys) continue to institutionalize their mockery of Christianity. The idea that they are somehow Christian is ridiculous. They wouldn’t know how to begin to be Christian. They lost it a long time ago (if they ever had it).

      Oct 10, 2012 at 9:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @ait10101: Re 8 “These…..

      Though I’m wary of the worthiness of cynicism, I can’t help but feel it necessary to applaud your comments here.

      But on the upside, this church is capable of some good works.

      And that’s important.

      That’s the stuff that touches the poor and needy.

      And they don’t give a hoot about what these “guys” say cause they’re so grateful for their help.

      Oct 11, 2012 at 2:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Burlington
      Burlington

      People that doesn’t have family seens to forget the fellings that links parents and their kids. And he should be able to do it as he once had a family too. I think a real mother is unable to abandon his son. Even those who have their sons in jail – mothers of people that committed awful crimes – still continue supporting and loving their sons. Love doesn’t know or respect any law,any rule. I learned that no one in this world is able to konw what will occur before this life. No one in the catholic faith has the certainty of salvation. It isn’t our task make the judgment that will bring people to heaven. And even if you are a sinner there are sacraments like confession, eucharist(communion) and anoiting of the sick that can change all your past life. The majority of the priests that I met never treat me harshly. They were vary comprehensible. There are the ones like this archbishop and others with skills, inteligence and fellings who knows how to teach and treat people without being crude.

      Oct 11, 2012 at 4:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • KirkR
      KirkR

      So glad that organized religion is fading away each day!

      Oct 11, 2012 at 5:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @KirkR: Re 11 So glad….

      It better not.

      God or bad, right or wrong, like it or not, understand it or not……we need this thing called religion.

      We need the “guidance” of the inspiration that it provides.

      If there is something about it we don’t like or appreciate, then let us —–

      1. Work out “our own” understanding or salvation.

      2. Pay careful attention to your own work, for then you will get the satisfaction of a job well done, and you won’t need to compare yourself to anyone else…….Galatians 6:4

      Oct 12, 2012 at 2:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • queerty1958
      queerty1958

      He should leave the church because he definitely does not understand what it means to be Christian. What a misguided asshole!

      Oct 12, 2012 at 11:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JOHN 1957
      JOHN 1957

      First, I love you guys here for voicing your feelings on various subject matter. To No. 5 Dumdum, Thank you ever so much for breaking the ice with your roast pork receipe. :-) bear hugs!

      This lady needs to run from the church as fast as possible. I find religion to be like politics, based on folklore and hoarse manure. My reality check; for peace of mind and health reasons (high blood pressure) they should both be avoided when in the company of un-enlightened people. Why make enemies on subject matter that changes from person to person and culture to culture and have been re-edited so many times it’s hard to keep track.

      The church throwing stones? ROFIHL= rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter. They of all people should not speak on the subject of morality. The history of the church is an ugly one filled with witch hunts, inquisitions, torture, blood spill, rape and the slaughter of innocents throughout history in the name of God, on a scale of billions by now. Catholic extermination camps, Surprisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveli, a practising Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!

      The vatican is run by demons that rule in their self created hell. I would never abandon my child that came from my flesh and blood but love and protect him/her with all my heart and soul. She doesn’t need religion, she needs knowledge, education and some counseling from pros on how to love someone gay.

      Personally, I believe there is a higher power in the universe and within all of us, but I have major issues with organized religion(s) that promote hate, war and destruction of others on any level. There’s way too much religion, created by man and not God, to control mankind and not enough spirituality to enlighten him. And this is one of the many reasons people are pulling away from organized religion and seeking spirituality elsewhere. People who need religion to guide them like a sheep herder don’t want to do their work and therefore when something goes wrong they have someone to blame. Why do we need religion to tell us to love, respect and tend to each other in a humane way? That should be a given.

      Someone please call “what not to wear” and have them give this guy a fashion makeover. What the hell is John Nienstadt wearing? Ugly drag! The church is still in the dark ages and if we let them they will start the inquisitions all over again and start burning us at the stake for numerous reasons.

      Oct 12, 2012 at 3:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Provine
      Provine

      @Billysees:

      Well – no. YOU need religion. But that’s your problem. Don’t make it anyone else’s, mmmkay?

      Oct 13, 2012 at 12:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @Provine: Re 15 “Well-no. …..

      I probably did not say what I should have concerning the “value” I think religion plays in the world today.

      And I can easily see why so many despise religion in general, Christianity included, simply because of the pathetic words and deeds of some of its followers.

      I remember some years ago when I regularly went to our Gay Pride festivals here in my home town. There was always someone who wore a T-shirt with the inscription, “Lord, save me from your followers”. To me, that was my favorite slogan because it is so true.

      But it’s also a shame that such a message should be displayed at all.

      I need to bring up a couple of interesting things here that will make my point that “mature” religion or religious practice, namely Christianity, is important to the Gay world and that without it, Gay acceptance and tolerance may not exist without it.

      But first, let me say that Christianity is a religion that has as one of its most important components a very important “self promoter”. That is the “Spirit of God” or more commonly known as “The Holy Spirit”. It also must be said that this “Holy Spirit” and the work that it does “trumps” anything written down in the Bible and “trumps” anything any one can say.

      Therefore, Paul, the best known writer of the New Testament, wrote, “The Kingdom of God is not in word (the scripture), but power ….…it’s not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit”.

      Power means the work of the Holy Spirit.

      Real and meaningful Christian practice involves the pursuit of righteousness which simply means doing the right thing or doing good things. It’s nearly all “works”. And it is nearly always the work of the Holy Spirit in us.

      We gays owe a great debt of gratitude for the work of the Holy Spirit in our world today. Look at all the good things it’s doing on our behalf. Like the ever increasing understanding and acceptance of the entire gay community for example. We might think that our activists and friends are responsible for this. And in a way they are. But it’s really the work of God’s Holy Spirit that makes it possible.

      In other words, “Man’s ways are of the Lord, so how can we understand our own ways?”…..Proverbs 20:24

      If God can be for us, who can be against us?.

      Think of it this way — “Happy is the boy or girl or man or woman who do not condemn themselves for the things that they allow or approve of”. Or simply put, we don’t condemn ourselves because we are Gay or Lesbian because we realize how good and fulfilling and happy this makes us be.

      Also, we in the West are “blessed” with the dynamic influence of Protestantism, Catholicism and Judaism.

      This is why “gay issues” are well tolerated, for the very most part.

      Wherever mature Christianity prevails, love and tolerance towards LGBT’s also prevails.

      This is how all of us LGBT’s should be considered and treated.

      These verses are either paraphrases or translations, 3 are from Paul and one from Peter —

      1. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.
      2. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
      3. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
      4. Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.

      Finally — Countries of “The West” and the year they legalized same sex marriage —

      These are all predominately “Christian” nations.

      1. Netherlands ’01
      2. Belgium ’03
      3. Spain ’05
      4. Canada ’05
      5. S. Africa ’06
      6. Norway ’09
      7. Sweden ’09
      8. Portugal ’10
      9. Iceland ’10
      10. Argentina ’10
      11. Denmark ’12

      And as a side note, I’ve heard of no reports that any of these countries are self destructing or coming apart at the seams as some say the good ol’ USA is going to experience if gay marriage is ever to be allowed by law.

      I am ABSOLUTELY certain that the Christian religion is “totally” and “completely” responsible for the above.

      Forgive me if I wrote too much “religious stuff” here.

      Hopefully Provine, something said above may help you to see that the Christian religion is more important than we can imagine.

      Oct 15, 2012 at 1:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ahimsa
      ahimsa

      @Billysees: I think it’s rather unfair of you to use this issue to promote your own religion above others, when, in the Western world, it is Christian conservatism that is the primary obstacle to the rights of gay people. The nations you cite are all highly secular and for the most part, politically progressive. Even those nations with significant Catholic populations, such as Argentina and Portugal, value secularism and the separation of church and state, and thus were able to override opposition from the Catholic Church. It is secularism and progressive humanism that is the most important component here, not religiosity.

      Furthermore, there are nations such as Israel and Japan, with Jewish and Buddhist majorities respectively, which recognize same-sex marriages performed in other nations and which have strong gay rights movements striving towards full legality. We can even look to a nation such as Nepal, which is economically poor and has a turbulent, unstable political history, but which is moving towards enshrining equal protections and marriage rights for gays in its new constitution. Nepal is an overwhelmingly Hindu nation. In ancient India, there was a greater amount of tolerance for homosexuality, even within the Hindu religion. There are Hindu temples which have sculptures depicting homosexual acts adorning them. It was the British who criminalized homosexual acts during the colonial period, in their attempts to impose Christian moral customs.

      My main point here is that it’s not Christianity or any single religion that will be responsible for the future progress of the LGBT movement. Rather, it is an universal, secular, progressive humanistic ethics that embraces and cherishes compassion and the equality of all human beings – regardless of whether we are Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh, atheist, or agnostic.

      Oct 17, 2012 at 1:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @ahimsa: Re 17, “I think…

      I haven’t forgot. Soon.

      Oct 18, 2012 at 3:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @Dumdum: Re 3, “I know just…

      The guy this article is about is an illustration of how pathetic a Christian religion representative can be.

      Seems like he’s trying to impress the higher ups in his church so he might be promoted or something.

      Martin Luther came along with his “reformation” and things were supposed to become better.

      But his reformation just created more of the same type of fundamentalists.

      But out of all of that perplexity, there seems pretty clearly that something called “love” has entered the picture in a “greater quantity” than ever before.

      Someone once said, “Be the change you want the world to be”.

      And Jesus would add, “This is how everyone will know you are my disciples, by the “love” you have for one another”.

      Christians “must” be the change they want the world to be.

      But fundamentalists are waiting for a new heaven and earth, as if they don’t have to do anything to promote its coming.

      The religion is the barrel, the contents are the apples….. you know the rest.

      Oct 19, 2012 at 11:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @ahimsa: Re 17, “I think it’s rather….

      I can’t much argue with or find anything wrong with what you’ve written here.

      It’s pretty comprehensive too.

      And makes good sense.

      An applicable comment from the “Book” says, “love believes all things”.

      Therefore, it’s not too hard at all to accept and understand your explanations.

      I can only contribute a few things of some value here —

      I should describe myself as a “Jesus follower”. The word Christian seems to be tainted by too many lousy followers who I have no interest in.

      Being a Jesus follower, I look to understand why Christian conservatism in the USA provides so much push back towards sensible gay issues such as marriage rights and equal protections.

      Money to be made and money to be spent is the answer I think, and only by those religious groups or churches with much money to spend are participating.

      But…..this is only the stuff on the surface. It’s what’s below the surface that counts.

      That’s the “nut” conservatism can’t crack.

      And that’s why there is so much anger, quarrelsomeness, poor behavior, ugly comments and other immature examples of religiousness that are exhibited by many of those people.

      See this as an example — http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/23/grant-storms-anti-gay-louisiana-pastor-obscenity_n_1825132.html

      Scroll down to the slide show.

      All they’re doing is “sitting in the seat of the scornful” and provoking gay folks.

      So…what is below the surface that’s so important?

      The answer is the “Spirit of God” or the “Spirit of the Lord” that works in gay people to will and do “His” will.

      Many are not even aware of that “work within”.

      Paul wrote that, “God has given every man a measure of faith”.

      It’s that “measure of faith” that causes the Gay community to rise up and ask for and expect worthy and equal treatment.

      Paul also wrote, “The Kingdom of God is not in word (that means the Bible), but power (that means this “measure of faith”)……. it’s not food and drink but righteousness (that means doing good works and deeds) and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit”.

      Finally —

      I’m not convinced that there is any real difference between religious and secular.

      You stated that Gay issues are now being revived in countries like Nepal, Israel, Japan, India, Argentina, and Portugal.

      And that universal, secular, progressive humanistic ethics that embrace and cherish compassion and the equality of all human beings regardless of whether we are Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh, atheist or agnostic.

      Well said.

      But I ask, “what or who is behind all of this?”

      What or who is slowly making all of these “wonderfully good” things happen?

      Well…here is what I ultimately think about all of the things you and I have said in these two posts —

      First (from the Lord’s Prayer)
      Thy kingdom come,
      thy will be done,
      on earth,
      as it is in heaven.

      Second
      Jesus said, “Without me, you can do nothing”.

      Oct 20, 2012 at 3:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @ahimsa: Re 17, “I think….

      Dear ahimsa,

      Thought you’d be interested in a comment exchange I had with a fellow Buddhist, I think.

      See —

      http://www.queerty.com/masked-assailants-attack-moscow-gay-bar-on-coming-out-day-20121013/#comments

      Also, thank you again for your last paragraph. I understand and accept what you’ve said here. This is an excellent “all inclusive” comment about who the contributors are for our cause and the cause of good words and deeds towards everybody. I will remember this as I make future comments —

      “My main point here is that it’s not Christianity or any single religion that will be responsible for the future progress of the LGBT movement. Rather, it is an universal, secular, progressive humanistic ethics that embraces and cherishes compassion and the equality of all human beings – regardless of whether we are Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh, atheist, or agnostic.”

      Oct 25, 2012 at 9:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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