33-year-old Lou Cutler wasn’t looking to make history when he entered the Mr. Gay Philadelphia contest, but when he got the crown he became the first transgender winner in the history of the contest.
GPhilly was on the scene at the competition, and reporter Josh Middleton managed to get some truly inspiring words from Cutler:
“It’s kind of hard to be a gay trans man sometimes…But I’m very proud of who I am, and I’ve worked very hard to become who I am. This, in some sense, is a dream come true for me. To be able to be part of this community, and also represent my own community—and to just be visible. It’s important for me to be out and visible as gay and trans, to show the community that not every trans person is the same.”
Kudos to Mr. Cutler, and right on to the voters for Mr. Gay Philadelphia.
In what has been a groundbreaking few years for transgender visibility, trans men definitely need more exposure, and this is definitely one way to do it.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
We’re looking forward to seeing more stories about trans men in the future.
orcanyc
I’m sorry, really am, I’m sure he’s great, but unless he has a penis, is he really Gay, because being Gay, I thought, was a man attracted to a man. I wonder if we are getting to politically correct?
andy_d
@orcanyc: whether he has a penis or not is irrelevant. If he identifies as male, lives as a male and is attracted to males and identifies as gay, he’s gay. The same holds true for those making the transition from male to female (MTF). If she identifies as female, lives and a female and is attracted to females and identifies as lesbian, she is a lesbian.
jayj150
@orcanyc: She is not a gay man, simply because she is not a man. She is a straight woman with a fetish. And by the way, why do t3annies get to have their own contests, but gay people are forced to share theirs with t3annies?, same as with parades, news sites and activist groups?
jayj150
@andy_d: ‘Self-identification’ does not supersede objective reality. Her delusion is irrelevant; she is a straight woman with a fetish for gay men.
ingyaom
Wow – a lot of rude comments here. I just clicked on this story to see if “Mr. Gay” was in fact gay and not just trans. If he says he is, then I believe him. Good for him.
Alan down in Florida
She is whatever he says he is. No one gets to determine his gender or orientation other than him. That’s the fact Jack! Maybe the haters are just jealous they couldn’t win a pageant. More power to him.
corvaspikenard
It’s heartwarming to see trans men being accepted as men and being allowed to compete openly with other men (as they should). I know a lot of stealth guys who do this sort of thing but are terrified of outing themselves because of the negative comments and attention.
So thanks for being brave and true to yourself Lou; you deserve your title 🙂
Here’s to more trans representation in the LGB communities!
Teeth
She’s a queerty affirmative action triple coupon!
gskorich
this is so wrong. unless this person has a penis and is having sex with a man how can he represent the gay community? somebody let the ball drop in philly, thats for sure
sejjo
“We’re looking forward to seeing more stories about trans men in the future.”
Yes Queerty, unfortunately you and I are the only ones looking forward to such things because there are certain brain-starved transphobic miscreants (in the gay community no less!) who don’t want such things because they like dishing out discrimination that they’ve received to other people.
Don’t think so? Just look at some of the messages on here!
gskorich
@sejjo: why do they like to throw that transphobic word around? did anyone say anything negative about this person? no, they are simply asking how a person with a vagina can represent the gay community
orcanyc
@gskorich: Thank you. That’s all I was saying.
masc4masc
@orcanyc: I agree 100 percent. People have gotten so extreme with political correctness that they’ve become delusional and/or intellectually dishonest. This story is a perfect example. How can she be a gay man when she has a vagina? Homosexual means same sex.
corvaspikenard
For the young transfer people reading these negative comments, please remember that your identity is valid, no matter what ignorant people say. You are a worthwhile human being and you r sexually and gender is as valid as anyone else’s.
Most of all, don’t let the haters get you down. They are a tiny but very vocal minority. They are not representative of the wider GET community (who are generally amazing, in my experience)
gskorich
@masc4masc: the want us to redefine homosexuality. so this person identifies as a gay man, thats fine but you have a vagina, if you sleep with men, even if that man says he is gay you are having hetero sex unless we redefine what homosexuality and heterosexuality is to fit them.
corvaspikenard
(That should be GLBT, not ‘GET’)
masc4masc
@gskorich: It’s all just ad hominem. You don’t really have to say anything negative, disrespectful or profane at all. Anyone who simply acknowledges what’s biologically true is ‘transphobic’….in their minds.
gskorich
@masc4masc: having to defend the fact that i am a gay man who likes to sleep with gay men with a penis is crazy. suddenly i am transphobic because i like my man with a penis. wow, again these people need their own fight. i would like to see how man lesbians would stand up for a MTF who still has apenis representing them
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: No, transphobic would be when you suggested trans people killing themselves was a good thing.
Just like how it is homophobic to suggest HIV killing gays is a good thing.
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: Where have I heard people bleating ‘They want us to redefine…’ before?
jayj150
This is a great victory for homophobes all across the country: A straight woman has won a contest for and by gay men.
DarkZephyr
I wish there was a mute function. I never want to see another post from @jayj150: @gskorich: @masc4masc: Or @orcanyc: For as long as I live. Ugh.
gskorich
@DarkZephyr: why do you want to sensor other peoples views thats crazy
DarkZephyr
Transphobic dinosaurs
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: Oh, stop it. You already know that’s not what was seriously meant. We already cleared that up, and you know it.
@gskorich: Yeah, if a ‘guy’ u like turns out to have a vagina, u still have to go down on ‘him’ or it means ur not acknowledging ‘him’ as man, thereby making u transphobic. lol
@jayj150: Don’t forget that boy that won prom queen while ago.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: Actually, your other comments on trans people led me to believe you were entirely serious. But ‘joking’ about the horrific trans suicide rates still makes you a transphobic asshole, sorry.
Man up and wear the title proudly if you want to constantly trash trans people.
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: you seem a little smarter than the average person so you should know by using this transphobic word so generically you are lessening the effect. everyone and everything that doesn’t agree with you can’t be transphobic because you don’t understand it. other posters look at your ease of use of the word and think its ok, its not ok.
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: Ur trying to make it a trans issue when it wasn’t. I generally don’t have respect for folks who give up on themselves. What they are/were doesn’t really matter.
Being that most people acknowledge that a person with a penis is male and a person with a vagina is female, most people are transphobic by ur standards, so I have no problems wearing ‘the title’ if it’s coming from u.
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: Your premise is a fallacy; I don’t use the word unless it has already been brought up.
I think ‘ciscentric’ would be more accurate in some cases, like the word ‘heterocentric’.
That’s beside the point though.
Joking about gay or trans suicides is phobic, regardless of which kind. Seeking out threads 5 diminish, criticise and tear down trans people might not seem ‘transphobic’ to some, but it still makes you an asshole and a bigot.
Ironically, anti-gay fundies don’t think they are bigots either.
Think about that.
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: there is that bigot word again. just because i stated i am a gay man who dates gay men with penis for some reason i am rejecting trans men and the whole trans community. yet i am not allowed to ask a potential partner if they were born with a penis because thats wrong and too personal. where is the trans mans responsibility in disclosing their lack of a penis? after a few dates and make out sessions? will that really change anything?
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: Your dissembling is entirely transparent. You despise trans people, but when confronted about it you hide behind weasel words and abdicate ownership of your revolting anti-trans statements.
Why are you obsessed with us? Why do you seek out every trans topic to fill with hate?
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: Straw man argument. I never questioned your right to choose your sexually partners.
I question all your other statements trashing trans people and not giving them even the basic dignity of referring to them correctly.
You always pop up on these threads and go out of your way to belittle and insult trans people.
By all means, try to look like your the good guy here, but I have a great memory and all your previous comments are still on this site.
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: asking questions is not belittling anyone. asking someone like myself to accept that a gay man can have a vagina is not in my reality but have i said they shouldn’t be that way? no i have not i pointed out that being gay means having the same sexual organs as the person you are having sex with, not the same mind frame. thats biology, thats a fact.
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: As I’ve already said, I have no problems being labeled transphobic by the likes of you because I already know youre irrational and throw it around quite frivolously. Go back and look at any of our conversations. My statements were based on the FACT that a male is XY and has a penis and a woman is XX and has a vagina; you chose to interpret that as transphobia. And since u certainly hop all over anything I have to say, why don’t you tell me why youre so obsessed with me?? Hmmmm….
Hank
let me get this, was a woman who became man to be gay?
DarkZephyr
@masc4masc: She’s not being irrational. You do show up on every trans related article and go out of your way to make remarks trashing their identity. You’re an a**.
MMDD
@gskorich: Excuse me, but when did you having to sleep with transgender men come into the conversation? Nobody’s telling you to do that. There are tons of gay men out there who aren’t my type, but they’re still gay men. By the way, I happen to like my men with a penis too, and like it or not, trans men DO have penises, even though they may not be the kind that appeal to you.
Paco
Some of the comments here are what I would expect from the Duck Dynasty crowd. Not from gay men that should know better. Sad.
I wonder if they have the hobo beards too.
masc4masc
@DarkZephyr: He is being irrational, and so are u. Every trans post? Queerty has been posting a lot of trans stuff lately. I comment on some of them but hardly all of them. If u don’t like it, u don’t have to read or reply to it. And unlike u two, I have yet to call either of u out of ur names, which u both have consistently done to anyone who has an opinion that u don’t like.
masc4masc
@MMDD: @MMDD: I think he said that because apparently if u don’t subscribe to the idea that ‘some men just have vaginas’, ur transphobic. So by that same logic, if u reject a ‘man’ on the sole purpose of ‘him’ having a vagina, ur transphobic too. So u guys better get ready to do some rug-munching if u wanna keep ur politically correct cards. Though somehow I think that’s where most of you will draw the line on what’s male and what’s female. lol There’s only one ‘kind of penis’.
gskorich
@masc4masc: thank you m4m. I couldn’t have said it better myself. the idea that a gay man can have a vagina is so foreign but being called transphobic for liking a man with a penis is absurd. no one is saying you can’t be who
you are but why are they telling us we can’t be who we are.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: Did you seriously just refer to me as ‘he’?
MMDD
@gskorich: Ummm…, no, actually, you ARE telling them they can’t be who they are. What ever happened to “live and let live”? But more importantly, why do you even care how someone else self-identifies? What exactly is that taking away from you? It’s not like there’s suddenly gonna be a lack of men in the world with the kind of penises you prefer. (Or at least, I certainly hope not…coz I really like ’em too!)
gskorich
@MMDD: why so defensive. do you know what this thread is about or are you just looking for a fight. we were talking about a trans man representing the gay community and how some of us feel in order for someone to represent they should have a penis. so get off you self identifying high horse
litper
I totally support trans gay people!
What i can’t support is femme self-hating trans women who change sex to become “straight”.
stranded
The dude’s hot; kind of dumb hair, but still attractive. It’s a little disheartening to read the comments here, @jayj150 comments were especially offensive. Perhaps as a biseuxal, I don’t have a problem with dating a transman or accepting of their male gender identity more than a gay man. If i meet and date a transman, I would think we are a gay couple. It’s not like i don’t or refuse to recognize the difference between a trans man and a biological man, there is no denying the difference, but recognizing the difference doesn’t mean you treat them differently. That’s the part that bugs me about the comments above. Instead of embracing the acceptance of trans men, a GAY transmen, into the Mr. Gay Philly contest, you get hung up on the difference and the biology.
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: He was voted the winner by the judges, so clearly they feel he represents his community. There is more to being a man than having a (big) penis, wouldn’t you agree?
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: as much as I enjoy our circl chats in this case it does matter if this person has a penis. regardless of who voted for this person they should have thought more about their community. gay men have gay sex with other gay men with penis. that’s what gay is
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: I thought being gay was being romantically and/or sexually attracted to men.
But if it is only about two erect penises in close proximity, then I can’t agree with you. I personally think people and relationships are about more than just reproductive organs and sex (though perhaps not to you?)
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: when you were a man did you prefer sex with a vagina or a penis. do you live with the fear that your husband is with you because you are transgender ? why did you choose a man with a penis ?
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: I’m not answering personal questions about my sex life, sorry.
No, I don’t live in fear; we love each other very much – 6 years together this August and still going strong 🙂
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: interesting. so we will leave my preference to have sex as a gay man with another gay man with a penis alone then. now back to the original thread. if a person is representing a community they should represent the community. this person calls themself a gay man yet they have a vagina. still doesn’t add up
inbama
Calling a gay man “transphobic” for not wanting o have sex with a trans man is the height of stupidity, and shows how ridiculous Transfeminist rhetoric is.
Being “gay” is not an identity. “Gay” is a euphemism for male to male Sexual Orientation.
I guess one of you ladies will eventually invent something like “Gender Orientation” as part of your obvious plan to un-sex everyone and everything, but right now same sex attraction means same sex.
That said, I certainly have no problem with transmen who want to be part of the community, enter contests, have gay lovers, etc.
It’s your misunderstanding of science,destroying the English language and insisting everyone talk like some demented cult member or you’ll kill yourselves that annoys me.
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: Sorry, where did the article list what was in Lou’s pants?
corvaspikenard
@inbama: Who called anyone transphobic for having a genital preference? That point has been manufactured entirely.
DarkZephyr
@masc4masc: If your statement wasn’t so monstrous it would be pathetically hilarious. You actually are claiming the moral HIGH GROUND here? You referred to a Transwoman as “he” and that is a cardinal outrage, its BEYOND disrespectful and it is hatefully RUDE. PLEASE do not pretend to be some magnanimous paragon of virtue when hate drips from every one of your pores.
@gskorich: You seem utterly blind to your bigotry but its just SO blatant! Maybe homophobes who claim NOT to be homophobes really are sincere in their mistaken view that they are not actually homophobes because you seem to be absolutely certain of your lack of bigotry yet your bigotry is of gargantuan proportions. Saying things like “we were talking about a trans man representing the gay community and how some of us feel in order for someone to represent they should have a penis.” That is the very HEIGHT of bigotry. And your next sentence is ironic “get off your self identifying high horse” when the horse you are riding is so high that if you tried to go through a door your nose would get bumped off on the upper door frame. NOBODY is saying that *YOU* *HAVE* to have sex with Transmen. NOBODY Is calling you “transphobic” for only wanting to have sex with men who were born with penises. THAT is your private personal preference. Its your transphobic rhetoric that makes you transphobic.
@inbama: Nobody is calling gay men “transphobic” for not wanting sex with transmen. gskorich pulled that out of…thin air. He is being called transphobic for statements like the one where he denies that Transmen should be allowed to represent the “gay community” based on their physical genitals.
hex0
Women who take testosterone cannot be gay men any more than a straight man can be a lesbian…
DarkZephyr
@hex0: we aren’t discussing “women who take testosterone”. Jane Fonda once took testosterone to help jump start her libido and she loved it. She quit it though because it gave her acne on her face. We are not talking about that. We are talking about gay Transmen. Why would you bring up a completely unrelated subject?
hex0
@DarkZephyr:
Gay men have lived our whole lives this way without body modifications, if a straight woman wants to inject T that’s her prerogative but that does not make them a sudden expert on being a man because she can now grow a beard.
She has no right to represent us.
Jacob23
The only reason this story is on here is because Queerty has bought into the fraud of “LGBT”. LGBT didn’t exist before the 1990s. If you had told Harvey Milk that gay people were linked, at the level of identity, with crossdressers, transsexuals and neutrois (people who want to be castrated), he would have given you the finger and shown you the door.
That is what we need to do to the proponents of LGBT. LGBT is inherently anti-gay. It is a lie that hurts LGB youth. We can be friends with Ts, but we are not one people with them.
hex0
@Jacob23:
“LGBT” is without a doubt one of the most harmful things to happen to gays/lesbians. It’s beyond a homophobic conservative’s wet dream.
Though I am glad that a lot of gay men can call a spade a spade.
corvaspikenard
The trans women who rioted at Stonewall and marched in all the gay rights protests would disagree with you bigots.
inbama
@corvaspikenard:
You are saying that – and with a put down right here. ” I personally think people and relationships are about more than just reproductive organs and sex (though perhaps not to you?)”
This nonsense about gays defining themselves by genitals and trans being so above it all is pure crap.
As the studies come in, being gay – like being trans male – has to do with having a brain somewhat feminized in a certain (if different) way.
Sexual Orientation and Transgenderism are BOTH defined by our brains.
For a transsexual to tell gay men they are too concerned with Male Sex apparatus is really bizarre considering how much time you spend obsessing about and hating your own sex organs.
corvaspikenard
@inbama: I was being truthful. I define my orientation by more than genitals. If my partner lost his penis I would still be in love with him. Attraction isn’t purely clock or no clock for most people.
Perhaps gay men are different though?
hex0
@corvaspikenard:
We’re not talking about a eunuch here but somebody who is biologically female. Whether a gay man would date a guy who lost his penis is irrelevant, they would still be biologically male. Yes it would repulse me to make out with a female (whether they had a pseudo-penis constructed or not), if that makes me “transphobic” then so be it.
corvaspikenard
@hex0: You’ve deliberately shifted the goalposts because I defeated your argument.
If by some feat of sorcery a uterus ended up in my partner I still wouldn’t stop loving him. His reproductive organs are only a fraction of my attraction to him.
Do you only see men as mobile penises?
hex0
@corvaspikenard:
Impossible hypotheticals about your partner are irrelevant. No men aren’t just “mobile penises” but penises are an intrinsic part of our bodies along with our scrotum, prostate etc. Saying that people’s genitals have no bearing when it comes to physical sex is bizarre, unless you’re bisexual then of course it matters. And if I had a partner who lost his penis that would not make them female nor would it magically make a vagina appear.
MMDD
@gskorich: Same right back at you. I’m just as much a part of the gay community as you are, and my voice and opinion are just as valid as yours. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it, and get off your own self-identifying high horse.
MMDD
@corvaspikenard: Congratulations. We’re on the verge of our 19th. 🙂
@corvaspikenard: Nope, I wouldn’t say that gay men are different. For many of us, however, the penis does seem to be a crucial factor. So for someone to say, “I couldn’t possibly date a trans man because of the genital factor,” that I can totally understand. But for that person to say, “A trans man isn’t really a man” or “A trans man has to have sex organs just like a biological man in order to qualify as a man” or “A trans man who is exclusively attracted to men isn’t gay” is utter garbage. I don’t understand transgenderism any more than the next guy, but I’m in no place to tell someone else who they can and can’t be.
DarkZephyr
The transphobia of queerty commentors has actually inspired an entire article over at HuffPost! You guys should be proud for any part you may have played in that!
DarkZephyr
@hex0: You guys keep saying like “I would never have sex with…” and “I would never make out with…and if that makes me transphobic so be it!” But NOBODY but YOU guys are bringing it up! *Nobody* is calling you “Transphobic” for having preferences. That is just something you guys keep pulling out of your dark tunnels.
@inbama: I think Trans people only say that to the guys who ARE obsessed with the “male apparatus” as you call it and say things like “because this person does not have a penis, they don’t get to represent me in the gay community”. Why ar4e you blaming Corvasoikenard for that? She didn’t cause it!
@MMDD: For my part I WOULD make out with a Transman and if he was my guy, have sex with him. Some of what I look for as a gay man is masculine features, masculine confidence, masculine charm, masculine voices, masculine attitude, etc. These traits can be found in both cismen and transmen. I have had HUGE crushes on gorgeous, sexy very masculine transmen. I am engaged to be married, but if I was single and a transman asked me out, I would say yes in a heart beat. I wouldn’t reject him at all. If a handsome transman that I knew was trans and gay or bi caught my eye, and I was single, I wouldn’t hesitate to ask HIM out either. I do love the penis, I would be lying if I said otherwise, but its not SO all fire important that I would turn an attractive, kind hearted man away because of his genitals. I know that some gay men have different preferences and this is OK. This in of itself does not make to Transphobic. Its when you attack a Transperson’s gender identity and treat them like their identity is false, a “put on” that you become transphobic. Its when you PURPOSELY use pronouns that do not match up with their gender identity that you become transphobic. Its when you say things like “They can’t represent me because they don’t have a penis!” that you become transphobic (and quite frankly, *embarrassing* for gay men everywhere, honestly I don’t want someone who judges other people’s worthiness based on their genitals to represent ME that’s for sure).
DarkZephyr
@DarkZephyr: And that would be are* and corvaspikenard*. Sorry Corva!
gskorich
@DarkZephyr: you don’t see how condescending your statements are? really. saying you wouldn’t reject a transnman based on what? the fact the he doesn’t have a penis? then you are not a homosexual unless you think sexual orientation is a choice and you can turn it on and off based on whether your date has a penis. from what i am reading about you it doesn’t sound like a vagina would go where you need it to go
Lvng1tor
Congrats To MR Gay Philly…all you haters, self loathers, ignorant, mean spirited, spiteful, disgusting, small minded neanderthals can suck it. No matter how much you whine and cry HE is still MR GAY PHILLY and you’re still living in a prison of bile and shame. Same ol debate by the same tired dinosaurs…surprised you can even type with those tiny little dull claws.
gskorich
@DerekR: individually it doesn’t matter how anyone identifies themselves but when they are put out in public to represent a community then i have issue. this person is calling themselves a gay man representing gay men. this is not true. now if this person were living their life as a gay men great for them, live how you do but don’t say you represent gay men when you have a vagina, in this instance it matters
jayj150
@Lvng1tor: Miss Gay Philly. She’s a straight girl.
nefter
OK..WOW. I have read all the comments, I admittedly skimmed some of the longer self indulgent rants. I am a gay man who does not understand Trans..That’s why I read the comments, in the hope of being more educated and understanding. It didn’t work. I’m only commenting to address the pro trans crowd here because your comments are doing NOTHING for your cause. If the sash said “MR.Trans Gay Philly” there would be no question, in my mind at least. But as gay man I question how it makes me feel to be represented by a trans man that was born a biological female. Should I expect to be torn to shreds and labeled a hateful bigot for being honest? because I do, and that’s my point really.
orcanyc
@Lvng1tor: I’m Not small minded, can type and not a Neanderthal. I don’t want to be represented by someone with a vagina, he’s not Gay. Run for Mr. Trans Philly, end of story
gskorich
@Lvng1tor: i notice you have GWM in your profile. does the G stand for Gay? if my gay philly is a gay man like they say they are but have a vagina, would this satisfy you as a gay man? as for your comments about dinosaurs and such, not sure how gay life is in your village in michigan is but in the real world its much different.
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: but would you love your partner if he replaced his penis with a vagina after the removal?
jar
This discussion is ridiculous. First, the fact that some fear the fall of western civilization because some silly bar contest awarded a silly title to a trans-man is comical. The parallels to the hair-on-fire right-wing anxiety about us obtaining the full rights of citizenship should be apparent. The fear that awarding a titular title to a trans-man will obliterate the existence of gay men is really no different than, for example, the fear that allowing us to marry will obliterate the institution of marriage. Whatever happened to the principle of live and let live, the premise upon which the gay rights movement was founded?
orcanyc
@jar: yes it’s about Gay rights for Gay men.
Lvng1tor
@gskorich: I’ve lived in NYC, Boston, Philly, Chicago, Grand Rapids, Dublin and Stockholm and traveled the world with my eyes wide open!
YES YES YES as a proud CisGender Gay Man who has worked, lived and volunteered in the LGBTQ communities in each of those cities…YES YES YES I see him as he is…A Gay Man!
Your “Real World” comment is laughable, cheap and irrelevant. ya sound like those TP’ers who claim they are the only real American’s…Ignorant and proud of it! We all live in the real world, some of just aren’t scared of it!
Whether or not I’m attracted to him would only be known after I met him….and as for being satisfied that would remain to be seen after I met him found a mutual attraction and then decided to sleep together. I’m more than my penis.
Some gay men have vagina’s or constructed penis’ GET OVER IT! CONGRATULATIONS MR. GAY PHILADELPHIA!!!
@orcanyc: No one but you represents you!
gskorich
@Lvng1tor: so for you sexual orientation is a choice.
orcanyc
@gskorich: Sorry, being gay, I am not attracted to vagina’s, that would make me straight, which is the point, I’m not, I’m Gay. Also I live in NYC, not Michigan and have volunteered on many Gay rights issues.
gskorich
@orcanyc: then you agree with me that gay men like gay men with a penis. thank you
nefter
@lvng1tor, just because YOU are “more than your penis” doesn’t make “him” a MAN, gay or otherwise. a “trans man” sure, that I can get behind, but a man…sorry..I just don’t understand why its “transphobic” to think that there ARE different kinds of “people”..a person that is born one sex that changes sex through surgery to physically match how they feel is different a different kind of person! I’m not saying that’s a bad thing.. but they are different and you cannot possibly deny that. Why do we all have to be lumped into one big messed up pile… oh and I threw in a bunch of extra “quotation marks” because I wasn’t sure if I used them in a transphobic way, I wouldn’t want you to think I was a rotten horrible person for the wrong reasons.
masc4masc
Something tells me trans ‘men’ would be outraged if a gay man won some title meant for trans. Instead of trying to redefine gay, why not start a TIG (Trans, Intersex, Gender nonconforming) community? Seems like there are enough gender identity issues to start another community where each group has more in common with each other than they do with LGB, which is solely based on sexual orientation.
gskorich
@masc4masc: i wish queerty had like buttons
masc4masc
@DarkZephyr: Correction: You guys have consistently resorted to name-calling when someone states FACTS you guys don’t like. I have not. All the hostile responses you two are directing at people (who are simply stating biological truths) are based on emotion and imagination. Once you guys realize your word games and suicide attempt stories aren’t working to control what people think, you both start dishing out character the assassinations. I don’t hate trans people. I’m actually in favor of defining a 3rd sex (T). I just can’t agree with people telling me I’m wrong or hateful because I don’t believe
“some gay men have vagina’s [sic]”.
Lvng1tor
@gskorich You just don’t get it and your only debating skill is to throw handfuls of stones while blindfolded hoping to hit a target. I’ll say this and then you can spew your ignorance at me as much as you like…..Sexuality isn’t a choice. It is, however, more than a body part…being proud of your own small minded ignorance and hate (thou dost protest soooo much) is a choice….it appears you’ve made yours.
gskorich
@Lvng1tor: gay men are more than their penis thats very true but we are not talking about what makes a complete gay man. the very basic meaning of a gay man is that he is homosexual, meaning he has sex with a person who is of the same sex as they are, not mentally but physically. this person is say thing are a gay man, are they gay because they say they are or do they engage in what i can only assume they think is gay sex. women like anal as much as men and so do some straight guys so thats out. gay men do not have vaginas, plain and simple.
DarkZephyr
@masc4masc: You, @gskorich: And now @nefter: Sound *exactly* like homophobes who declare that they are not homophobic.
You are now declaring that you are just stating biological facts. Now where have I heard arguments like that before? Oh yeah. From HOMOPHOBES who say that same sex pairings are wrong and immoral and they aren’t hateful people because they are JUST stating a “biological fact” then men’s bodies are not designed ro fit with men’s bodies and women’s bodies are not designed to fit with women’s bodies. You are JUST like them.
DerekR
What so many of you idiots cannot grasp to save your life is that identifying oneself as man or woman is based on how they identify on the inside. NOT what they see in the mirror. Often it matches, sometimes it doesn’t and steps must be taken to make it so.
I can see this is above so many of your heads which is sad and pathetic.
You do not have the right to label anyone as man or woman given the presence of a c@ck or tw@t, that is not your right. However it is my right to call myself a woman if that is how I identify (I don’t).
So many of you can only focus on the outside because you are so terribly lacking on the inside. Own it.
gskorich
@DerekR: you are missing the point. no one is saying this person can’t say who they are. we are saying gay men do not have vaginas
DerekR
@gskorich: But a man can-a point people refuse to understand.
nefter
Hey Zepher, your not making it easy to be accepting or more understanding at all by comparing what I have said to a homophobe, actually your making it very each to say F**k the T… Oh and Derek, My prostate is on the inside thank you very much..
masc4masc
@DarkZephyr: Again, you’re doing exactly what I was saying. You have nothing but personal attacks because you know you can’t argue against the fact that men don’t have vaginas.
@DerekR: Say a man and woman are married, but the woman has expressed that she feels like a man in her head; does that mean she and her husband are having homosexual sex when he inserts his penis into her vagina? And I’m just looking for a yes or no answer, or just don’t bother at all.
DerekR
@masc4masc: Perhaps the wife(in her head) might who knows but why do you care how their sex is labeled. I mean seriously your example is so f@cking stupid and random but coming from one of the biggest dbags here I am not surprised.
nefter
dereck, you can call yourself a chair..doesn’t make you a chair..but I respect your right to do so if that’s how you feel on the inside..I dont’t know if the chair I’m sitting on would agree but then, it’s a chair.
oh and your missing the point..
gskorich
@DerekR: i read responses like this and it only solidifies what m4m is talking about. his example makes perfect sense. its the same thing going on with this mr gay philly. one person has a vagina and the other a penis and yet they are trying to call it homosexual because the one with the vagina identifies as a gay man. these examples are no more random than asking if someone is still a man if their penis is removed.
masc4masc
@DerekR: Can’t give a definite answer? Didn’t think so. Just more personal attacks and criticism of the question. Homosexual means of the same sex (not gender, as it’s been explained to me that there’s some technical difference btw gender and sex), so gender identity issues aren’t even a factor by this definition. A person with a penis and a person with a vagina are not of the same sex, so by the very definition of the word homosexual, it is impossible for a person with penis to have homosexual sex with a person that has a vagina.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: You are a coward. You called me ‘he’ then slunk away when confronted by myself and DarkZephyr.
You’ve lost any right to claim you’re not an asshole, not full of hate and are discussing in good faith.
Understand? You don’t get to be so blatantly transphobic and then claim you’re the only one being reasonable.
Never once have I stooped to homophobic rhetoric in my statements – but you went there, Sir.
Cam
Ok, I’m coming on to this comment thread late.
The whole “Has to have a penis” thing, to a certain extent is sounding a bit like the old “It’s Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” chant from groups like NOM.
I have never dated a Transgender that I know of, but if I was single, and somebody was a hot, great smile, sexually attractive etc… and then I found out they had a vagina, I mean maybe it’s just me and not to get overly graphic, but being told there is an additional place to “Put It In” wouldn’t exactly be the worst news in the world.
Ok sure, no giving blow-jobs and the idea of going down on a woman isn’t a turn on for me, but this person would look like a man, and frankly for those of you who like rimming to say that you wouldn’t go down on a trans-guy sounds a bit disingenuous.
I may have some issues with the fringe gay and lesbian hating elements of the trans community, but physically I don’t get all of the outrage on this thread.
masc4masc
^^So all republicans and Bible-thumpers had to do was call women gay men, and gay men are all of a sudden into it. Who knew? Lol
@corvaspikenard: I’ve been called worse by better. I stated earlier that you can call me whatever you like. Scroll up and see for yourself. It doesn’t mean anything because I’ve already gathered that you’re pretty hostile, irrational and delusional. If you wanna believe I hate you because you’re trans, while I’m sorry you feel that way, you’re entitled to that opinion.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: Yes, being a trans woman I am hostile towards people who are openly transphobic and who call me a man.
However you have shown no evidence of delusion or irrationality. As I have said to you many times, the American Medical and Psychological Associations both back me scientifically and you have never shown and credentials to gainsay them.
I do love how you go on about penises making people male but call me male when I have a vaginas. Your hypocrisy is dumbfoundin.
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: If my partner had a vagina and asked me to penetrative him I would decline, as I have no penis and am not interested in ‘topping’ anyway. However I would discuss options about making out relationship open so he could experience that 🙂
jayj150
@Cam: If you are attracted to vaginas, good for you. But don’t imply that gay men who are open about not wanting to have anything to do with vaginas are being dishonest. You don’t get to decide that. No, it’s not ‘another hole’, it’s a deal-breaker hole. Again, it it’s not for you, that’s fine, but don’t call those who don’t think like you dishonest.
That kind of things, that gay men would start liking vaginas ‘if we just gave them a chance’ is precisely the kind of things so-called ‘counselors’ at Conversion camps tell gay kids when they try to terrorize and torture the gay out of them.
corvaspikenard
@jayj150: This is getting ridiculous.
The whole ‘vagina’ thing is a red herring and a straw man.
* No one has said you have to have sex with Mr. Gay Philly
* No one is saying you have to fuck trans men if you don’t want to
* Not once has it been stated what is in Mr. Gay Philly’s pants
So can we stop with this idiocy?
The whole ‘vagina’ issue was raised by the anti-trans crowd, to try to make it appear that trans people are demanding to be shagged.
We are not.
We don’t want to have sex with bigots, ever.
All cleared up? Good.
No one cares if you don’t want to have sex with trans people. Good for you – everyone has their own tastes and preferences – I don’t like hairless men, for example.
What is being protested is you using your preferences to say that the identity of this (and other) trans men is not valid, just because you wouldn’t want to have sex with him.
Sorry, that’s not how it works.
I don’t get to say hairless men aren’t ‘real men’ because they can’t grow body hair, any more than you get to say trans men aren’t ‘real men’.
Your preference does not invalidate his identity!
Hell, where is the humanity and basic human decency in this discussion? The guy is clearly a guy. He identifies as a man and he looks like a man. We don’t know what’s in his pants and since you are not having sex with him it is irrelevant.
What’s ironic about all this palava about a trans man winning is that if an unknown straight guy camped it up and won, you’d apparently have no issue, because he supposedly has a penis!
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: berating people seems to be your specialty. the issue isn’t whether anyone wants to sleep wit anyone its how this person can call themselves a gay man while having a vagina. homosexuality is clearly defined. no amount of demeaning people by you or anyone is going to change that. this person can mentally think they are a gay man because the have anal sex but if you don’t have the parts you can’t be homosexual.
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: “its how this person can call themselves a gay man while having a vagina.”
Prove he has a vagina.
If you’re not having sex with him, his genitalia is irrelevant.
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: not true when the yard representing a whole community. individually it doesn’t matter but this person has been selected to represent a group of people, homosexual men. prove they don’t have a vagina
jayj150
@corvaspikenard: What are you talking about?. I was responding to Cam, who had implied that gay men who said they didn’t like vaginas were being ‘disingenuous’. It’s not disingenuous or dishonest for gay men to say they have no sexual interest in vaginas, and they shouldn’t be criticized, mocked, or called ‘dishonest’ for being open about their preference. The fact I have to defend that fact on a site called Queerty is insane.
Shaming gay men for their preferences is NEVER OK. So, yes, my response is valid and I stand by it. As for “your preference does not invalidate my identity” thing, I have no idea what you’re talking about. I didn’t question your(or anybody else’s ) identity. I don’t attach my sexual orientation to other people’s sexual identity; both are separate, independent phenomena. If you need me to validate your identity, then you need a lot of soul-searching to do, but that’s your problem, not mine.
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: I didn’t make any claim about his genitalia; you guys did. Therefore the burden of proof lies on you, since you made the assertion.
The judges of the competition felt he was representative of the gay community, presumably because the Gay community has trans men in it.
But again, if you’re not having sex with him, his genitals are irrelevant. Showing your penis is not a requirement of the competition. I’ve seen judge scorecards for Mr. Gay comps and that’s not one of the categories (though grooming and community activities are).
If you have an issue with gay men competing, I suggest you contact the organisers of the competition and try to make them change their stance on gay trans men.
Good luck with that 🙂
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: again, no one is having sex with anyone nor do they want to. why you feel you are in a court of law is beyond me. you got one thing right and i’m surprised it took this long. the whole meaning of this thread was the fact that they let a trans man win, thats what people had issue with, thanks for getting back to the main point. now feel free to continue on with your victim filled babble
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: you seem to want to ignore what a homosexual is. i can only assume you were one when you were a man so the issue shouldn’t be that difficult to understand. homosexual means a certain thing, it does not mean having sex with a person of different sexual organs.
corvaspikenard
@jayj150: You’re seriously trying to cry about being ‘shamed’ when you said this?
@jayj150: “Miss Gay Philly. She’s a straight girl.”
You’re the most outrageous hypocrite. I seriously can’t believe you outright misgendered and insulted this trans man and you’re trying to get a sympathy vote for being called disingenuous.
You don’t have any right to cry foul.
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: “The whole meaning of this thread was the fact that they let a trans man win”
I know, it’s awesome! Congrats again Lou! You were clearly the best man there!
“homosexual means a certain thing”
Indeed. It means men who are attracted primarily or solely to men. Lou is a man, he is attracted to men, therefore he is gay.
But please, continue obsessing over the genitals of a trans man 🙂
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: agin you are ignoring a very important part because it suits you. both parties have to have the same sex organs. you can’t pick and choose.
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: It doesn’t mean that, actually. If a man gets his penis and testicles shot off and is attracted to men, he is still gay, even though he does not have the “same sex organs” as you claim.
Your assertion of ‘same sex organs’ is patently untrue.
And we’re back to genitals again.
Which is the primary sex organ in all humans, Gskorich?
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: enough of your stories this person has a vagina. was born with one and is calling themselves a gay man. look up the definition of homosexual, it hasn’t changed. i’m not making it up.
i’ve told you a hundred times if you are born with a penis and if you lose it unless you replace it with a vagina you are still a man.
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: last comment with you because you are running in circles again. if genitals aren’t important why dod you find it so important to have a sex change?
jayj150
@corvaspikenard: You can’t demand the respect you don’t offer. You can’t mock gay men’s sexual orientation while simultaneously demanding their respect to your identity. If your ‘self-identitity’ is not negotiable, neither is our sexual orientation. We don’t have to pretend to like vaginas so you can feel validated. We don’t have to “open our mind and give vaginas a chance” so this person feels validated as a gay man. IT’S NOT OUR JOB TO VALIDATE YOU. But if we are respectful of your identity, please return the favor and respect our sexual orientation.
The ‘you can choose to like vaginas if you just gave them a chance’ summarizes what homophobes have been telling gay men for centuries to shame them, terrorize them and deprive them of civil rights, and even today gay kids are being told this in Christian “conversion camps”. So NO, sexual shaming of gay people is NEVER OK. Not when done by christian bigots, not when done by transsexuals.
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: “enough of your stories this person has a vagina”
Where is your proof? It’s entirely possible he’s has a combined vaginectomy+oophorectomy+hysterectomy with Dr. Marci Bowers, or a Phalloplasty in Belgium. You don’t know what’s in his pants.
“last comment with you because you are running in circles again. if genitals aren’t important why dod you find it so important to have a sex change?”
The answer to that question is too long and complex for a thread post. If you’re really that interested, find me on facebook and I’ll explain it fully 🙂
However, it was to do with my own self, not anyone else. My decision to have reassignment surgery doesn’t affect anyone but me – and it didn’t change my orientation.
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: you refuse to answer the question. what is the definition, full definition of homosexuality?
corvaspikenard
@jayj150: “You can’t demand the respect you don’t offer. You can’t mock gay men’s sexual orientation while simultaneously demanding their respect to your identity.”
Sorry, you flagrantly disrespected trans people well before anyone ‘shamed’ you. You don’t get to retrospectively claim offense to justify your original statement.
You’re an asshole who is now complaining about being treated like an asshole.
Go cry to the conservative right; their views of trans people marry up perfectly with yours 🙂
corvaspikenard
@gskorich: You rescinded your right to question me: @gskorich: “last comment with you”.
I hope one day you recognise your gay trans brothers and stop trashing their identities.
gskorich
@corvaspikenard: again, not attacking this person personally. asking how a person with a vagina can represent homosexual men:
Sexual orientation is an enduring personal quality that inclines people to feel romantic or sexual attraction (or a combination of these) to persons of the opposite sex or gender, the same sex or gender, or to both sexes or more than one gender. These attractions are generally subsumed under heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality,[1][2] while asexuality (the lack of sexual attraction to others) is sometimes identified as the fourth category.[3][4][5][6] These categories are aspects of the more nuanced nature of sexual identity.[1] For example, people may use other labels, such as pansexual or polysexual,[7] or none at all.[1] According to the American Psychological Association, sexual orientation “also refers to a person’s sense of identity based on those attractions, related behaviors, and membership in a community of others who share those attractions”.[1][8]
Paco
@jayj150: “So NO, sexual shaming of gay people is NEVER OK. Not when done by christian bigots, not when done by transsexuals.”
Yea!!! Only gay bigots can shame others and cower behind the term “preference”. The only shaming I have seen happening in these comments is the shaming of the trans gay man that won a contest at a bar. You all sound no different than the opponents to marriage equality that think they will be required to marry a gay person. No one is going to force you to sleep with a trans gay man because he won a contest. Furthermore, if a trans gay man winning a Mr. Gay contest is so threatening to your status as a gay man, then you have bigger issues than this. Get over yourself. Please.
DerekR
Well said Paco
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: Look man, I’m really sorry you feel this way. Truly. However, a reconstructed penis is still not a vagina, so I’m not being hypocritical at all. You’re actually the hypocrite because you keep saying “a penis doesn’t make a person male”, but then you turn around and say “I’m not a man because I have a ‘vagina'”. Which is it? I keep telling you there’s no need for me to dispute this medical association info you’re so stuck on because there are other disorders that are recognized by doctors and psychiatrists even though their existence hasn’t been proven. Look up dissociative identity disorder.
morgan riggs
@orcanyc: So what you are saying that if a man (with penis) loses said penis due to accident or a medical condition, he is no longer a man? The only true mark of a man is a penis?
gskorich
@morgan riggs: this has been discussed. if you are born with a penis and you lose it, unless you replace it with a vagina you are still a man.
morgan riggs
@gskorich: How do you know what is in his pants? There are surgeries to remove a vagina, and surgeries to build a small but useful penis complete with testicle implants. Testicle implants werent invented for trans men, but for men, like my husband who lost a testicle to disease and wanted to be able to look in the mirror without grief.
gskorich
@gskorich: what is the percentage of ftm who have bottom surgery? do the math. speaking of why do ftm remove their breast? is that what defines a woman ? not the vagina? is this because of the alternative
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: “Look man, I’m really sorry you feel this way.
Calling me ‘man’ and then claiming your sorry doesn’t wash. You’re just a bigoted asshole, that’s all there is to it. You get off on trying to make trans people feel awful and insulting us by deliberately referring to us as the wrong gender.
“However, a reconstructed penis is still not a vagina, so I’m not being hypocritical at all.”
During my research, before hormones and surgery, I discovered that what are classically known as the ‘male’ and ‘female’ reproductive organs aren’t actually very different at all. And the application of cross-sex hormones makes the body enter the puberty state of those hormones. This in turn causes the genitals to change and the analogous state of the genitals is revealed.
It’s all the same tissues, just with different hormonal expressions. A ‘reconstructed penis’ on a person who takes estrogen is far more phenotypically a vagina than it is a penis.
“You’re actually the hypocrite because you keep saying “a penis doesn’t make a person male”, but then you turn around and say “I’m not a man because I have a ‘vagina’”.
Did I? Where did I say that? I’ve mentioned that I don’t have a penis when pressed on the subject, but I don’t recall saying “I am female because of my vagina”.
I am female because my brain is female. That has always been my assertion as to my femaleness. If I had a male brain, I wouldn’t have wanted to transition – I would have been happy without estrogen and surgery.
“I keep telling you there’s no need for me to dispute this medical association info you’re so stuck on because there are other disorders that are recognized by doctors and psychiatrists even though their existence hasn’t been proven. Look up dissociative identity disorder.”
Yet you still lack the credentials to make valid, robust criticisms of their work. You are neither a Doctor nor a Psychologist, so you opinion in the face of their research and experimentation is irrelevant. You’re a nobody saying that thousands of highly qualified professionals are wrong.
inbama
@gskorich:
Not so fast, gskorich.
Chastity Bono and Elizabeth Birch both served as Presidents of the HRC and represented gay men while having vaginas.
Remember Bono’s 1996 book, “Family Outing,” which explained that coming out “catapulted me into a political role that has transformed my life, providing me with affirmation as a lesbian, as a woman, and as an individual?”
An inspiration for all time. You can still get it on Amazon for $3.01 hardcover.
gskorich
@inbama: nice try. they represented the LGBT community. not the gay community specifically. btw chaz bono is now running around calling himself a heterosexual man. him
gskorich
@inbama: besides. I don’t imagine they would be rubbing in the mr gay Pennsylvania contest
DarkZephyr
@gskorich: Your definition of what makes someone a man is your own definition and not everyone else’s. Did you know that the term “narrow minded” was invented for people like yourself? YOU my friend are the one we don’t want to represent the gay community. I promise you that should you have entered that contest and your views about trans people were made known you would be guaranteed to lose. The gay community of Philly fas chosen this trans MAN. They DO want him to represent them and they WOULDN’T want the likes of you.
Now you have questioned my sexual orientation. You don’t get to do that. You gave the definition of homosexuality as someone attracted to the “same sex OR *gender*”. A transman’s assigned birth sex may have been female but his GENDER has always been MALE. My openness to transMEN does NOT invalidate my homosexuality per the definition YOU gave. Transmen’s gender is male, my gender is male. That = homosexual. Period.
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: Lol you’re all worked up over nothing…again. Adding “man” onto a sentence is just a figure of speech a lot of guys use regardless of who they’re talking to. Funny, I’ve used it when conversing with actual women, and they don’t flip out about it. Interesting.
I’m actually gonna agree with you on some of what you’re saying about anatomy. Pecs are also not much different from tits. Just a slight variation in shape and size (sometimes not even), and of course both have nipples. Supposedly, some men can even lactate. However, there are still many biologically-proven differences between male and female, so the ‘we’re all the same argument’ ain’t gonna work, buddy.
Please show me where I’ve criticized or attempted to discredit any medical professional because I think you’re still misunderstanding my point despite me being quite clear.
gskorich
@masc4masc: @DarkZephyr: you almost had it except one thing. you are male. they are trans male. making it heterosexual. if this person were with another trans male then it would be homosexual
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: ” Lol you’re all worked up over nothing…again. Adding “man” onto a sentence is just a figure of speech a lot of guys use regardless of who they’re talking to.”
And again, you’re trying to play the innocent card when you called me ‘he’ further up the thread. So whatever; you threw that in there because you were hoping for a reaction, which you got. Now you have the audacity to bitch about referring to me as ‘he’ and ‘man’!
You also don’t get to play innocent right after calling my vagina a ‘reconstructed penis’ in another attempt to invalidate my identity and body. Do you even read what you write?
As I said, you should go hang out with the heterosexual, conservative right wing fundies; they have the exact same views as you do on trans people.
Cam
@jayj150: said… “What are you talking about?. I was responding to Cam, who had implied that gay men who said they didn’t like vaginas were being ‘disingenuous’.”
_________________________________
Actually that isn’t what I said at all. So why don’t we instead examine reasons why you would possibly want to misrepresent a comment in this thread.
If you have to alter a posting just for you to make your point, then your point sounds like it most likely isn’t valid.
Kangol
Why so much transphobia? If he is a FTM and says he is an FTM and lives as a man and feels like a man, HE IS A MAN.
Please, gay people, work on the transphobia. It’s not cool or cute, and it’s reproducing the same oppressive many of us gay people have suffered and continue to suffer.
MMDD
Holy fuck. Went to work this morning and came home to 75 messages in my inbox. What a freakin’ train wreck. Thank God for “unsubscribe.” I’m outta here.
hex0
She a biologically female, gay men are males exclusively attracted to other males. That is a fact and not “transphobic”.
I will not apologize because I do not agree with bored straight people who think that taking some synthetic hormones makes them a lesbian or gay man and thus an expert on us. If a drug which increases melanin production was discovered, could white people take it and claim to be “transblack”? Would they be allowed to compete in competitions/events for black people only?
corvaspikenard
@hex0: When humans reproduce, the chances of a male or female embryo are about 50/50, with a small percentage (around 0.1%) of ambiguous sex embryos.
When humans reproduce, their racial heritage is determined by the race of their parents. You can be born male, female or intersex, regardless of who your parents are – but you can’t be born ‘black’ if all your ancestry is white.
Your question is ridiculous – a straw man you’re propping up.
I could spin exactly the same argument onto gay people, just as the conservative right have been doing for decades. ‘Penises are made to go in vaginas’, etc.
“I will not apologize because I do not agree with bored straight people who think that taking some synthetic hormones makes them a lesbian or gay man and thus an expert on us”
Sorry to bust another one of your ridiculous arguments, but there are trans people of all orientations – and the bulk of us have felt this way since we were children, so we are no ‘bored heterosexuals’.
What’s to stop heteros saying you’re just bored straight men looking for some kink in another guy’s butthole?
You’re transphobic because you call this guy ‘she’ even though he identifies as male, lives as a male and looks like a male.
Answer me honestly: if he’s walking down the street holding hands with his boyfriend, are people going to say “aw, look at the cute straight couple”?
jayj150
Well, if gay guys like that Jenna Talackova dude can invade the spaces of women, it’s only fair that straight women like this one will invade spaces for gay men.
corvaspikenard
@jayj150: Jenna is female, like myself. She also identifies as heterosexual, like myself.
Mr. Gay Philly, Lou Cutler, is a gay man.
DarkZephyr
@gskorich: So the definition of heterosexuality is when a cismale and a transmale are attracted to each other? I don’t think I know one person who identifies as heterosexual who would agree with you.
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: I’m not trying to invalidate your identity at all. How can I? You’re a transgender that’s had reconstructive surgery to appear more like a woman. However, I’m not gonna call a person with a penis (be it normal or permanently tucked) a woman, nor will I call a person with a vagina male because it’s just plain crazy and false. Like I said, I’m in favor of establishing a third sex. I’m actually kind of an ally if you think about it. =)
inbama
@masc4masc:
The Gay Liberation movement began in the Victorian Period. German Karl Ulrichs was a leader and considered gay men to be a “third sex” – “a female psyche in a male body.”
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: Does this third sex have to wear armbands and use different drinking fountains?
You’re not an ally. You’ve a bigot.
Paco
@masc4masc: Be careful what you wish for. Gay men could easily end up being lumped into that third sex category. The argument being that they aren’t women and could never be considered “real” men because they don’t sleep with women.
Does it bother you at all that there are people out there that will never consider you a real man because you have sex with other men? Kind of like the attitude you have that a trans person will never be anything other than their birth sex in your eyes. Just curious.
ontheupandup
@corvaspikenard: The trans women who rioted at Stonewall and marched in all the gay rights protests would disagree with you bigots.
Well said!
Lou (the contest winner) is just trying to find his way and live his truth as he sees fit. Aren’t we all? For the folks in the Philly crowd who voted for him, that’s what they wanted. Why some on this thread are taking it so personally is kind of baffling.
Other people’s determination as to what their gender identity or sexual orientation is should in no way devalue your own. Isn’t that pretty much the same argument we pose to the rabid homophobes who tell us we shouldn’t get married as we see fit because it somehow interferes with straight people’s marriages?
Trans folks do NOT need LGBs–or any other minority who know what society’s hostility and marginalization feel like–to attempt to shut them down and add to their struggles. Live and let live…we’ve all got enough of our own sh*t to deal with.
Cam
Can I ask a simple question? I’m not sure why it matters so much. The ONLY problem I have with the T in LGBT is the fringe element that seems to be gay and lesbian hating.
Outside of that, I’m not sure where all the hysteria on this post is coming from. If I was single and met somebody who was smoking hot and fun to talk to, great smile, face, body, fun to be around, and then after a date or so found out they had a vagina. But everything about them looked Male, then I’d deal. It is something different, but frankly if somebody is completely male looking and is a bottom it’s not going to make a huge difference except maybe they don’t need to be as flexible during sex.
I’m not sure why the idea that a transguy who is attracted to guys may come into a gay bar is so upsetting. If you don’t like him, then don’t fuck him. But we sure as hell don’t kick drunk straight women out of our bars and they are FAR more irritating than the fact that some hot guy tells you over your 2nd beer that he doesn’t have a dick.
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: Uhhh if you can call yourself a heterosexual woman, I can call myself a trans ally. You’re not trying to DENY me my trans ally identity, are you??? Defining a 3rd sex certainly makes a lot more sense than walking around saying things like “some women just have penises”. You guys call yourselves trans anyway. It’s very reasonable.
M = male
F = female
T = transgender
What’s the problem?
masc4masc
@Paco: That’s an incredibly silly comparison, even for you. What you’re trying to express is more about ideas of manhood and masculinity rather than what makes a person male, which is what the rest of us have been discussing. Whether I have sex with a man or a woman or both, I’m still biologically male, and nothing will change that. The very definition of homosexual suggests one’s sex has already been defined. As far as people that think men who sleep with other men aren’t real men, they’re entitled to their views. And no, it doesn’t bother me too much. Maybe you guys need to think about why it’s so important for you all to control what people think.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: Newsflash: ally status is granted by the group you claim to be allies with. For example, if you are a KKK and Storm front member, black people can say you’re not an ally, even if you claim you are.
You’ve not an ally.
But humour me, how do you propose the third sex is dealt with? Lots of them look ‘normal’ so do you have ID checks on bathrooms and force them to carry papers saying they are third sex?
Paco
@masc4masc: It is not a silly comparison. The similarities with the two, in the level of bigotry expressed are striking and hard to ignore. Bigots are entitled to their views like everyone else, but it doesn’t make your bigoted view correct.
I have been reading your comments on Queerty for quite a while and the one thing that stands out the most is that you must express these views on every trans related article or article about a man that doesn’t live up to your standards of manhood (“He would be hot if a purse didn’t fall out of his mouth every time he talked”). Why is that? Does it make you feel better about yourself to repeatedly express such views that come off as borderline trolling for attention? If your goal is to try and prove what a superior specimen of gay man you are, it isn’t working. Your insecurities are obviously transparent and you really do belong in the same category as the Tony Perkins and Pat Robertsons of the world, because your bigotry towards certain members of the LGBT community seems no different to me than theirs.
Trans men are men. Effeminate men are men. They don’t deserve to be denigrated by your “views” so you can feel better about yourself. Just because you can comment doesn’t always mean you should. You really are a fringe element of the gay community and I really hope your “views” are never welcomed into the mainstream.
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: Wrong. It’s a self-identification. I’ve seen tons of people call themselves gay allies without ‘permission’ from the gay community. I can call myself a trans ally if I want, the same way you like to call yourself a woman.
Most people know which bathroom to go into. I go to the men’s room. You’d go to a transroom. As a guy, I could sneak into a ladies’ room if I wanted to, so should they make all bathrooms unisex based on that? Public restrooms go by an honesty policy that most reasonable people don’t feel tempted (or in your case, entitled) to violate.
masc4masc
@Paco: It is silly, and I’ve already explained why quite clearly. And that comment you’re referring to came from a post about Davey Wavey. Even though you’ve chosen to single out my quote, pretty much every other guy that commented on that topic said something similar….which kinda negates your little assessment of me being “a fringe element of the gay community”, doesn’t it?
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: “You’d go to a transroom.”
Wow. I have no words.
Goodbye Queerty, your site is a breeding ground for trans hatred and segregation.
gskorich
@DarkZephyr: no they aren’t in the same gender class, what aren’t your getting
DarkZephyr
@corvaspikenard: I don’t think you are the one that needs to go. Queerty has banned people and IP addresses before and a couple of commenters here badly need to be banned for their blatant hatred and obvious trolling in my opinion.
@gskorich: They ARE in the same gender class. Male. You continue to confuse gender with assigned birth sex. Your post about Sexuality said sex OR gender. Transmen are of the male gender whether you like it or not.
@masc4masc: The only person you are fooling is @gskorich: And thats because he enjoys your agreement with his bigoted views. You are here solely irritate people. You do it with your transphobic hate speech and you do it with your contemptible screen name “masc4masc”. Queerty is not a hookup sight yet you chose a name that makes your disdain for your less masculine brothers abundantly clear. You are embarrassing.
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: A trans’ restroom offends you? Men’s room doesn’t offend me in the slightest. I think this just shows your real issue is with the way you feel about yourself and has little to do with anything I’ve said.
@DarkZephyr: I have consistently complied with Queerty’s terms of service. I express myself respectfully and have refrained from name-calling (unlike you and Corva) even when it’s been directed at me. I’ve not posted anything I know to be false, defamatory or threatening. I haven’t harassed anyone either. In fact, it’s Corva who has harassed me. He’s the one that hops all over anything I say. I’m not following him into EVERY story and antagonizing his views. I’ve tried to reason with him. I’ve even agreed with him on some things. He’s simply mad that he can’t control me, and that’s unfortunate. Paco has also admitted to stalking my posts on here, so if anyone should be calling for a ban of another user, it’s actually ME. The fact that you’re so bothered by my s/n (which happens to just be the same as the e-mail address I used to register here) shows how hypersensitive you are. Again, your issue is with yourself, not me.
Paco
@masc4masc: ” Paco has also admitted to stalking my posts on here”
I have? Remembering having read outrageous and trolling comments by a particular troll in Queerty articles is stalking? Don’t start trying to claim being a victim. This article was written to congratulate the winner of the Mr. Gay Philly contest and predictably you just couldn’t resist trolling the comments section with your bigoted , self-loathing BS. You and your ilk are a disgusting internal cancer on the LGBT community that needs to be washed away. SO Congratulations! You are getting the attention you were seeking!
Too bad because the only person that should be getting any attention in these comments is Mr. Gay Philly, Lou Cutler. Congrats to him for being accepted by his gay brothers in Philly.
masc4masc
@inbama: So this whole time, Corva has been using the same logic as a Nazi? It’s that same “psyche as a sole basis for determining gender” argument. Unfortunately for both Ulrich and Spikenard, psyche doesn’t change sex, so they were/are incorrect.
@Paco: You’re the one playing victim, buddy. You purposely look for my posts so you can start replying to me with personal attacks, which could definitely be considered a form of harassment by the Queerty ToS (See ‘Conduct’).
Paco
@masc4masc: I have news for you… I read every article on Queerty (or most) and I am quite sure I have refrained from responding to most of your posts, so don’t flatter yourself. You however came into the comments section of an article congratulating a trans gay man for winning a contest just to post inflammatory crap and then wonder why you are being confronted by Corva and allies of trans people? What other purpose were your comments supposed to serve here? Yes we know already, you can’t pass up the chance to ridicule trans people and effeminate gay men. You have made your point about that ad nauseum. We get it already. Sheesh.
As far as breaking Queerty’s ToS, if I get banned then so be it, but I am not going to sit back and not confront bigoted garbage when I read it in the most inappropriate of places like this article’s comment section.
My apologies to Queerty and readers for losing my temper with this jerk. No apologies to you though, Masc.
masc4masc
@Paco: *cues violins*
Great speech, buddy. Really, it was. You do reply to me more than necessary and always with unnecessary attitude. Let’s not forget it’s always you who desperately needs to let me know how you feel about what I think ad nauseam. I get it already. Sheesh. This is an open forum, and we’re all free to discuss these stories from all sides. If you can’t handle it, why don’t you just log out?
inbama
@masc4masc:
This has nothing to do with Nazis – or Cora.
Ulrich was almost a century earlier than Hitler. His plea for tolerance for gays was based on the idea that loving men rather than women made us a “third sex.”
Today’s science partially bares him out with scans showing some brain difference from straights although no one today would say this constitutes a different sex.
There’s no point advocating “Third Sex” for Trans either. For starters, they’re winning bathroom rights as men and women, and secondly, “Third Sex” is being implemented as a category for Intersex people to discourage parents from forcing a sex on them at birth through surgery.
masc4masc
@inbama: “His plea for tolerance for gays was based on the idea that loving men rather than women made us a ‘third sex.'”
As I’ve already said, who you sleep with doesn’t change your sex. That logic has never been a scientifically-recognized sex determination system anywhere in the world. Would it make bisexuals intersex? lol
“Today’s science partially bares him out with scans showing some brain difference from straights…”
I’ve read some studies as well, all of which haven’t even partially proven much of anything. Try finding even one scientist that doesn’t wanna be credited with solving one of life’s mysteries. One scientist says “it’s this part of the brain”, and another says “no, it’s this part of the brain”. Then it’s a gay gene. Then it’s supposedly something that goes hormonally awry in the womb. What’s next? A gay aortic valve? Maybe some gay hair follicles? Maybe all have to be simultaneously present while the earth is aligned just right with the sun and the moon! Arguing unknowns is a fool’s game, especially when you’re trying to negate people who are simply stating what science has already conclusively proven and is universally understood to be true.
“’Third Sex’ is being implemented as a category for Intersex people to discourage parents from forcing a sex on them at birth through surgery.”
Great. So they’re already doing for intersex what I was suggesting be done for trans. As an ally, I hope trans will be up next.
I = intersex
T = transgender
We can have four sexes or however many sexes it takes for everyone to feel recognized.
Dwayne420
That’s the best “man” Philly had in the contest? LMAO!
DarkZephyr
@Dwayne420: Seriously? As a gay man, I am ashamed of you.