EXTINCTION — Deep in the hinterlands of Florida is a magical place known as Alapine, where men are not allowed and women (er, ‘womyn’) name their chickens after the Golden Girls. Sadly, Alapine and many other lesbian separatist compounds across the country are slowly going the way of the dodo as their populations age and a new generation of lesbians don’t see any need to go off in the woods to form their own matriarchal societies. The gray ladies of Alapine are concerned that their man-hating way of life (and our basis for using the term ‘man-hating’ is that they send out alerts that there’s “a man on the land” when a sixth-month old boy shows up on the compound) won’t be carried on, but are they a relic of another time or a sign that feminism has lost its estrogen-fueled muscle?
The New York Times has an in-depth piece on Alapine that’s a must-read, complete with an audio slide show. One highlight:
“Rand Hall, 63, one of the newest Alapine residents, whose 50-year-old stepdaughter has joined her on the property, said separatism still makes sense today.
“Outside the gate, it’s still a man’s world,” said Ms. Hall, who retired as the publisher of a gay and lesbian newspaper in Tampa and St. Petersburg, Fla., and moved to Alapine in 2006. “And women are not safe, period. It’s just that simple.”
“I don’t have curtains,” she said. “I don’t have to worry about someone watching me dress or undress. There’s also a sense of community, a sense of supporting each other.”
Ms. Hall added: “It’s not as competitive. Women, when they’re together, tend to be more cooperative. They don’t look for one to succeed and all the others to fail. In the mainstream world that’s what it is. Somebody has to be on top so everyone else has to be on the bottom.”
hardmannyc
Why are you posting this on Tuesday? It’s been available online since late Friday night.
Jimbo
OK this may not be on subject but why is OK for Woman to have special places to go that men are not allowed but make a place where woman are not allowed and the lawyers show up ??
blake
“It’s not as competitive. Women, when they’re together, tend to be more cooperative. They don’t look for one to succeed and all the others to fail.”
–B.S. What is with people trying to make their group, sexual, ethnic, religious, etc. into the “bestest,” “specialest,” and “whateverest” of humans?
Women are just as ruthless as men. Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin are proof of that.
Also, why continue with a falsehood that women are not perpetrators of domestic or sexual violence against their partners or others?
GranDiva
@hardmannyc:
Yeah, well, the Morrissey thing is so last week as well. I’d seen it before even Andy Towle posted it.
RyanInSacto
@JImbo: I suspect it is because there is a history of discrimination against women in this country. I don’t know if you noticed, but:
– Women were not allowed to vote for the first 100+ years of this country.
– Women continue to receive a fraction of the wages that men who perform the same jobs receive.
– Women are underrepresented in all levels of government.
Those are just a few bits of evidence off the top of my head.
That said, I still think these all-female camps sound ridiculous, but not because of some sense of “reverse discrimination” or whatever.
mrbill
OK Woman are just like men beside the genitals thing I worked in a PR firm years back that was mostly woman they would always be back stabbing there way to the top and believe me no one was safe
mrbill
Woman have the right to vote now 2 were close to being president also woman voters outnumber men as voters just a note to take into consideration
In many industries woman make allot more than men modeling and real estate to just name a couple
and ya it is reverse discrimination a camp allowing men only would be sued out of existents’
Darth Paul
@blake: Clinton and Palin are also dubious parodies of their male counterparts. Pretty much any ‘powerful’ woman has to be to succeed. Everything is framed in terms of patriarchy: they have to be materialistically oriented, a married mother, hierarchally oriented, and willing to play the Old Boys’ game.
I’ll agree that a TRUE matriarchal society is less (inwardly) violent. Historical accounts of ethnic matriarchal societies demonstrate this. But this sad squat is a grotesque twisting of matriarchal society. It’s just a sanctuary for ‘fraidy old lesbians who can’t cope in the mainstream world. There’s nothing attractive or redeeming about that. Queer zionism is a failed notion.
Darth Paul
@RyanInSacto: THANK YOU! The glib assumption that females are ‘equal’ is a dangerous and debilitating notion. It’s almost like telling black folks, “We have a black president now- racism doesn’t exist, so get over it.”
Darth Paul
(My bad, should be “treated ‘equally'”)
Alexa
When we catch up with other countries and have a female head of government, when journalists concentrate more on policies than whether Hillary has cankles, when we actually GET equal pay, then we can talk about who gets discriminated against and whether it’s fair for men to be excluded from female only places.
Saying that, as someone who loves men (but doesn’t LOVE men), the women’s separatist movement has never held any appeal to me. If you don’t like the way society works you try to change it, you don’t run away from it, and while I would have phrased it differently, Darth Paul is correct in his response.
Pretzels for Pyros
Howard Stern wept.
Larry
I think one reason why these places are dying is that they’re so retrograde. It’s true that it’s still a “man’s world” out here, but things have also improved a lot, and the sort of 60s-70s stick-it-to-the-man radicalism that led to the creation of “womyn’s lands” has mostly died down.
As for the notion of men-only retreats, I don’t think you can compare here. Womyn’s lands are specifically for lesbians, not women in general. I don’t think anyone would complain if someone set up something similar exclusively for gay men.
Sceth
“It’s not as competitive. Women, when they’re together, tend to be more cooperative. They don’t look for one to succeed and all the others to fail. In the mainstream world that’s what it is. Somebody has to be on top so everyone else has to be on the bottom.”
“… are they a relic of another time or a sign that feminism has lost its estrogen-fueled muscle?”
There are many, many things called feminism. Sure, there were near-sexist feminist authors in the past who made many good contributions to the thought as a whole, but in modern thinking I surely wouldn’t call that feminism. It’s Sexism.
I think sexism is bad, but that’s just me. Tell it to the Freemasons (who have a branch where women are allowed, but it’s very obscure) and many sports clubs. It’s legal.
Sceth
Afterthought: I should have brought up that other oppressed groups have centres, so I don’t condemn them much for a female compound. I just think it’s obsolete.
RyanInSacto
@MrBill: Before I reply to you, I’ll need you to
1) Find a friend who graduated from high school.
2) Have that person proof-read your posts
3) Repost them.
Thanks.
Whup-Ass Master
Extinction? Perhaps the lesbians should be felled by tranquilizer darts and tagged so that their mating/foraging habits can be filmed for the Discovery Channel.
mrbill
Hey RyanInSaco
thanks for proving that there are bigots every ware I am language challenged thanks to dyslexia do not worry I will never post here again I guess only the perfect can comment
Bill
hardmannyc
“”It’s not as competitive. Women, when they’re together, tend to be more cooperative. They don’t look for one to succeed and all the others to fail.”
–B.S. What is with people trying to make their group, sexual, ethnic, religious, etc. into the “bestest,” “specialest,” and “whateverest” of humans?
Women are just as ruthless as men. Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin are proof of that.”
You left out:
Indira Ghandi
Agrippina
Joan of Arc
Golda Meir
Margaret Thatcher
(Bloody) Mary Tudor
Isabella of Spain
Ilsa Koch (the “Bitch of Buchenwald”)
Queen Elizabeth I
I actually think women are MORE ruthless than men.
PearlsBeforeSwine
I believe that private entities are entitled to discriminate to their hearts content. Some male only organizations that come to mind (I think) include Masonic Temples, Elks, Boy Scouts, and the Catholic priesthood. There may be issues about receiving public funds if you discriminate, and if you are a politician you will be labeled a troglodyte if you belong to a discriminatory organization, but they are not illegal.
blake
@Darth Paul:
Have you ever watched school age girls interact? They are mean and vicious towards each other regardless of any boy in their surroundings.
Palin and Clinton are not acting like men. They are ruthless because they are ruthless.
blake
@hardmannyc:
No, women are not any more or any less cruel or vicious than men. They are different from men but capable of just as much evil as any man.
Making blanket statements that aggrandize or denigrate any gender is ridiculous.
I have no problem with a women-only community like this.
blake
Most of these women in the article are in their 60s or 70s. They lived in a harsher world. Retreating to this space seems not too different from gays and lesbians forming their own safe spaces in big cities (like San Francisco’s Castro, Chicago’s Boys’ Town or New York’s Chelsea). Similarly, there are gay and lesbian bars.
The goal, however, should be for our society to not make people feel afraid and unwanted, requiring the establishment of such communities.
Michael vdB
Wow…I didn’t know there was places out there like that. But, if it is what they want…who am I to judge?
Jack
@Pretzels for Pyros: Only if it was a lesbian compound full of strippers and pornstars.
mb00
@blake:
“why continue with a falsehood that women are not perpetrators of domestic or sexual violence against their partners or others?”
You are so right about that Blake. In all the years of being out, the majority of the lesbian couples that I knew had some degree of domestic violence in their relationships, but with the guys it was a very rare instance.
Separatism is bit dated. But I have to say that I do wonder sometimes how it would be if the whole LGBT community would have our very own state or city to live in where as no straight people would be allowed.
Carl
Um, the article clearly says that the e-mail alert was sent with humor.
I don’t think they’re man-hating. Sometimes this can just be a really B.S. world for some people who’ve been hurt or need to experience what life is like with constantly being in the domain of some privileged elite.
For these women, they want to be in a community that represents them and they don’t have to worry about a man silencing them, with his own voice or with his bodily presence. Given years of damaging patriarchy in our society, this is quite reasonable.
Sometimes I’m pretty desperate to not be around white people for awhile. It’s called “safe space”. Look it up.
JP
For starters, this community is in Alabama, not Florida. I hope that helps get the straight facts to some who might be interested…
thanks