Christians don’t mind discriminating because they themselves are so rarely the victims of discrimination: not so many Christians fired from work for being Christian, or kicked out of apartments for being Christian. Maybe some atheist will start refusing to serve Christians in his or her business and then the Christians can get a feel for what discrimination is like.

If they’re mean-spirited enough, they may begin producing their most noxious anti-gay poison using gay creatives — just to have the pleasure of more-or-less torturing you with both their bullshit and the notion that you’re profiting from making anti-gay content.

Suppose a Christian church approaches a gay video producer and asks him to produce a video that applauds the anti-gay law in Uganda and that advocates that homosexuality is a “mental illness” than can be “cured.”

Under the same law, he’d be fined for refusing to produce it.

As long as you’re OK with that…

I think you’ll find this to be very enlightening. The judge was very thorough and explains his judgment very well.

ChiDesigner…..I don’t expect everyone to jump on the bandwagon. However, it would be helpful if people made sure to educate themselves on the legal matter at hand (Such as terminology and the laws in the state) before sharing a somewhat misguided opinion. I really think that if everyone took the time to research the actual complaint and the responses from the commission and the judge it would lead to a better understanding of what is at stake as well as why we should be applauding these women. Even if your opinion stays the same, at least then it would be based on the facts and not just bits and pieces of information conveniently leaked to the public that paint Elane Photography as a victim.

Thank you for your simple and common sense approach and resolution; its quite eloquent in resolving a sincere dilemma.

And I am completely supportive for the exemptions applied to private clubs, I sure don’t want to run into a woman in the steam room.

If a group of Christian fundamentalists approaches you and asks you to design a religious brochure, tell them that you are gay. Chances are that they’ll walk away from you faster than Rick Warren from a pride parade.

If they still want to work with you, then we’ve made progress.

If you want to be treated as an equal member of society, it’s not too much to ask that you act like one.

Uhm…YEAH… if you refused your service to potential clients who’s religious ideology did not match yours, I would not only hope you would get sued, but proudly applaud those religious folks for their victory in the case.

Putting your service in the market place?….offer it to all. If you refuse and deny that service based on the clients THOUGHTS and beliefs…I’d gladly smile while seeing your company crash and burn.

You’re attempts at devil’s advocate were weak.

This homophobic drivel above (and yes, it was homophobic, and yes, gay people can have homophobic streaks) was written on one of the most prominent gay blogs on the net.

I literally had to check and see what site I was on because I thought I got linked to a story on a conservative page.

…seriously, we’re flcked when our own community does not at all see anything wrong with our discrimination.

Wrong.

As per the law.

Sorry.

I really don’t get what is so complicated about this.

The definition of public accomodation is what it is. No one is “expanding it.” And nondiscrimination laws state that if you’re a public accomodation, you can’t discriminate against a protected class of people solely on that basis, which this couple did.

I don’t know why so many are having such a hard time with this, really.

10th grade Civics calling…

ChiDesigner, you asked:

“No, the unresolved question is: What would you do? Would you accept the client’s business, designing church literature which you find morally reprehensible”

Yes.

I do business with people all the time with people who have religious beliefs I find morally reprehensible. It doesn’t enter into our dealings. Bigots’ money spends just as well as any other kind, and when I find out one of my clients is anti-gay in a politically active way, I make sure to spend some of their money on something extra gay, just for kicks.

And that’s part of the point — they’re coming to ME. If I’m aware that a business is anti-gay, I can choose to spend my money elsewhere. But for that person to come to me for a service, and for me to deny them that service based on their religious beliefs, is discrimination, just like what happened with the couple in New Mexico.

And I’m sorry if the GLBT community isn’t “ready” for that, but frankly, I think most in the gay community DO get it (as is evidenced by the bulk of the comments in this thread, most of which are calling out the ignorance in the post), and if they don’t, it’s time to grow up.

No, the unresolved question is: What would you do? Would you accept the client’s business, designing church literature which you find morally reprehensible – all out of fear of losing your a$$ financially? Or would you tell them, “No, I’m sorry. I can’t do that”?

Again, it’s a double-edged sword that I don’t think anyone in the GLBT community is prepared for.

No. 54 FakeName
No, you would be “discriminating” against them on the basis of their actions, not their beliefs.

While I agree with you on the surface of that arguement, don’t think for a moment that they won’t turn this law around on us and sue.

No, you would be “discriminating” against them on the basis of their actions, not their beliefs.

But by me turning down that client, I would be discriminating against them on the basis of their religion and my feelings on it. And under this ruling, I could be held financially liable, and could lose my business.

It’s a double-edged sword that I’m not sure GLBT business owners are ready to be cut by. As the old adage goes, “be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.”

It does cause harm to our pursuit of equal rights when the public reads posts from queers that don’t believe that the NM court’s ruling was fair. Even if you think this seems like making mountains of mole hills, we need to support these women. Ask any African American how Rosa Parks’ refusal to sit at the back of the bus affected their fight for equal rights. There may have been people back then that thought that she was making something out of nothing, but that single act of civil disobedience inspired many others to follow suit. So, let’s not make judgements so quickly. It was very courageous for these women to stand up for their rights and make sure that the law in New Mexico was enforced.

“Homophobe” is not a protected class under New Mexico law.

Per New Mexico statute 28-1-2.H: “‘public accommodation’ means any establishment that provides or offers its services, facilities, accommodations or goods to the public, but does not include a bona fide private club or other place or establishment that is by its nature and use distinctly private”

http://www.conwaygreene.com/nm.....m&2.0

I myself am a freelance graphic designer. If a right-wing fundamentalist potential client approached me about designing a brochure and website for their ministry which, while not mentioning it in the literature, is known for homophobia, I would turn that client down on my own moral beliefs. But I wouldn’t want a court ruling and rule of law to state that I would be forced to accept that client and perform that work.

As an atheist, if I may borrow a Christian tenet: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

This is simple basic law I thought every person in America with a High School education knew.

So far from helping, or even being neutral, Queerty has now very actively hurt gay people and will as long as this piece is up.

If a business is in the marketplace — selling to the public — they cannot, unlaws in 21 states inlcuding NM (and CA and NY where I think you’re located) discriminate on the basis race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. That means if you walk into a restuarant the owner cannot say NO FAGS ALLOWED and throw you out.

PUBLIC ACCOMODATIONS are those the are OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, not those owned by the state. That’s a very basic point of law. Public Accomodations are included in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 because of Jim Crow policies in restaurants, etc. in the South against Black people.

If we take the author’s point any resaurant, hotel, airline, store, etc., could bar gay people. Are you seriously giving someone who arguing for this a platform on your site?

If you are, then you have broken trust with every reader you have.

If you don’t understand the import of rolling back nondiscrimination laws — the you have no business running this site and you are pure frauds.

Also, if you let a business off the hook on who they sell to, what is to stop rolling back laws on who they hire: “We don’t hire fags” — that’s where this leads and you giving space to someone who wants to lead us there.

Why should any self-respecting gay person continue to visit your site if you don’t understand the most basic aspects of our struggle for civil rights?

TAKE DOWN THIS EMBARASSING, GAY-BASHING, POST NOW.

I updated my piece on the subject to reflect the editors’ note.

The judge’s opinion is a matter of public record as well. Read it. You’ll see that they Alliance Defense Fund attorneys for Elane Photography used every flimsy arguement in the book. They even manipulated and twisted past rulings to fit their arguements as if the judge would not notice.

As usual, you are talking out of your ass! Sears and K-Mart are privately owned. They cannot refuse service to someone because of religion or race. Right? Why should some be able to refuse service based on sexual orientation?

Think the laws against that should be repealed too?

Reality check – your opinions are irrelevant (you too Queerty). That shit is ILLEGAL.

Queerty writes, “There’s a distinction between private companies and government-run entities, which must adhere to non-discrimination codes.” I have noted this before, maybe when you comment on legal issues, you should consult a lawyer because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.