Canadian journalist Barbara Kay, who is white, argues that black people shouldn’t feel bad about opposing gay marriage because anti-gay “discrimination” isn’t discrimination at all: “In the collective black memory, “discrimination” meant a white man could prevent a black man from marrying altogether, or sell a black man’s wife and children. Beside the true discrimination blacks have suffered, the lack of a symbolic piece of paper in an otherwise unencumbered life is as insulting as moaning and groaning about your sniffles to a cancer survivor.” [National Post]
Not Understanding…
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gkruz
Ebony and Ivory, together in perfect homophobic harmony…
rasa
“an otherwise unencumbered life “….
hmmmm….
She really doesn’t get it, does she?
Well, you know the phrase, “As you sow, so shall you reap”…
I’m sure she will reap quite a response to her insensitive remarks.
And who knows? After a while, she might reconsider… I guess she is like a mental microcosm of so many people who can’t yet tune into the fundamental issue of basic human rights that are connected to this challenge.
Obama has been elected. Things are changing. It’s a long road we’re on, but we will certainly get there.
marco hussein channing
She right. Gay & lesbians have never been bought and sold because of their sexual orientation. They have just been rounded up for the Holocaust, beaten and left for dead on fences, and are used by the GOP to rally their base against them. Oh, and straight men (and women) JUST did prevent gay men from marrying altogether.
Nope no discrimination. I guess the same is true for Hispanics since America did not enslave them.
Olive Yurdich
Barbara, that turtleneck is so working for you. Good choice to help hide that turkey neck.
Stuart
Many blacks and Latinos do not see homosexuality in their communities. “Gay” in the popular imagination is a white middle class/upper middle class cultural identity. The public face of homosexuality…the cultural identity of the “gay community” is most often seen as white middle class/upper middle class and privileged. By point this out I am not trying to justify the obvious bigotry made law by Prop 8, but I am trying to signal that perhaps the out reach that gay Americans and our allies needs to do in minority communities has not taken place.
Who are the public faces of black and Latino gay men and women? Who are the out spoken clergy with national stature who canvassed the minority communities in CA to combat Prop. 8?
Far from scapegoating the minority voter for supporting this discriminatory legislation, it is far more important for us to build solid identification with them.
trevor
She is neither black nor gay so I don’t know where she gets off stating that. Acting as if she knows both sides of the story, when she can’t even begin to imagine the discrimination that gays and lesbians face on a day to day basis. All while radical conservatives attempt to strip and forbid the very rights that are so fundamental to a free and well developed country. “true” discrimination? In my book, any discrimination is true discrimination. This woman obviously does not know what she’s talking about.
Jennifer
She’s a fundy. She opens here mouth, but her ass does all the talking.
Dave
She looks awfully like she’s trying to be case in the “Strangers with Candy” sequel…what a harpy.
rasa
@Stuart: Beautifully put! Thank you.
Raven
When did Jerri Blank become a reporter?
fredo777
I also agree with Stuart.
As a gay black man, I have the interesting perspective of being directly a part of both “sides” of this issue. I do see homophobia among some members of my black community (+, sadly, some among the LGBT one) as well as a lesser representation of persons of color within my gay community. It isn’t a far-fetched view, really, when we consider that the most common representations of the gay community in pop culture (magazines, tv shows, movies, etc., etc.) are young, attractive white males.
Call me idyllic, but I honestly feel that the more we see persons of color as some of the more recognizable faces of the LGBT community + gay persons among those persons of color, attitudes of those within both communities will change for the better. People think differently about ideas (or someone) when they can better relate to them, as evidenced by my very own experience post-coming out to my family.
Also, we need more black luminaries like the late Coretta Scott King who are willing to speak more openly about the need to unite, to accept + embrace the LGBT community, + vice versa. Al Sharpton is a polarizing figure, I know, but as I understand it, he does support same-sex marriage. I wish the No on 8 folks had tapped him to speak out in opposition to Prop 8. It could have made a difference.
Tony
if gay people weren’t discriminated against then what would’ve been the reason for stonewall. sure gays weren’t bitten by dogs or sprayed with high powered water hoses (that i know of)…but they were beaten up by cops and sodomized with nightsticks or whatever else the cops could find. it has been a constant struggle just for homosexuals to have “legal” sex, live together and whatever other crap is in that article. we need the black gay community to stand up!
Joshua
Let’s not talk about the history of discrimination and violence against GLBT individuals perpetrated by countries that currently and legally punish “homosexual” acts by death, such as Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakiston, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Yemen. Furthermore, let’s not talk about the persecution of “homosexuals” during the Middle Ages or Holocaust.
Let’s focus on the United States, where discrimination was recently written into the state constitution of California, among other states.
Ms. Kay, words are powerful. Your words are dangerous.
Out of the hundreds of acts of violence committed against GLBT person in the United States, I will share with you a few of their stories. I’ll let these words speak for themselves.
The arson of the The Upstairs Lounge in New Orleans, Louisiana on June 24, 1973 killing 32 people.
The stabbing death of Robert Hillsborough in San Francisco, California June 21, 1977 by a man shouting “faggot.”
On November 27, 1978, openly gay San Francisco city supervisor Harvey Milk was assassinated by political rival Dan White at San Francisco City Hall, along with Mayor George Moscone. Outrage over Milk’s and Moscone’s assassinations and the short sentence given to White (7 years) prompted the White Night Riots.
Tennessee Williams was the victim of an assault in January 1979 in Key West, being beaten by five teenage boys. He escaped serious injury. The episode was part of a spate of anti-gay violence inspired by an anti-gay newspaper ad run by a local Baptist minister.
The beating death of Terry Knudsen by three men in Loring Park in Minneapolis, Minnesota on June 5th, 1979.
The beating death of Les Benscoter on June 15, 1979 in his St. Paul, Minnesota apartment with the words, “fags will die” written in toothpaste on his furniture.
The beating of Rick Hunter and John Hanson by Minneapolis police outside the Y’all Come Back Saloon on January 1, 1982. Hennepin County Hospital emergency room staff employees testified in court that the police called the two men queers and sissies while the men were being treated for their injuries.
The beating death of Charlie Howard in Bangor, Maine in 1984.
On May 13, 1988, Rebecca Wight was killed when she and her partner, Claudia Brenner, were shot by Stephen Roy Carr while hiking and camping along the Appalachian Trail. Carr later claimed that he became enraged by the couple’s lesbianism when he saw them having sex. Carr claimed the woman taunted him by having sex in front of him.
The fatal stabbing of James Zappalorti, a gay Vietnam veteran (1945 – 1990).
The death of Julio Rivera in New York City on July 2, 1990 by two men who beat him with a hammer and stabbed him with a knife because he was gay.
The killing of Paul Broussard, a Houston-area banker (1968-1991)
The killing of an unknown homosexual man in Lillehammer, 21st of August, 1992. The police investigations took about a year before BÃ¥rd Faust, the drummer of the band Emperor, was arrested and convicted of the killing. Apparently the man had suggested gay sex to Faust and after they arrived at a nearby forest, Faust stabbed the man 14 times.
The rape and later murder of Brandon Teena, a transsexual man (1972 – 1993). The events leading to Mr. Teena’s death were depicted in the movie Boys Don’t Cry.
On March 9, 1995, Scott Amedure was murdered after revealing his homosexual attraction to his friend Jonathan Schmitz on The Jenny Jones Show.
The murders of Roxanne Ellis and Michelle Abdill, a lesbian couple in Medford, Oregon in 1995, by a man who said he thought their “lifestyle” was “sick.”
The bombing of the Otherside Lounge, a lesbian nightclub in Atlanta, by Eric Robert Rudolph, the “Olympic Park Bomber,” on February 21, 1997; five bar patrons were injured.
The death by beating and exposure of Matthew Shepard, a gay student (1976 – 1998)
In May 1999, Admiral Duncan pub, a gay bar in Soho was bombed by David Copeland, killing at least 2 people and wounding 73 people.
The murder of Barry Winchell on July 6, 1999. He was dating Calpernia Addams, a transgendered author.
The July 1, 1999, murders of gay couple Gary Matson and Winfield Mowder by white supremacist brothers Matthew and Tyler Williams. Matthew Williams claimed that by killing the couple he was following “obeying the law of God,” because he believed homosexuality violated God’s laws. Williams said he hoped his actions would inspire further violence against homosexuals and ethnic minorities.
The murder of Steen Fenrich by his stepfather, in September 1999. His dismembered remains were found in March 2001, with the phrase “gay nigger number one” scrawled on his skull along with his social security number.
The murder of Arthur “J.R.” Warren by three teenage boys on July 3, 2000, who believed Warren spread a rumor that he and one of the boys had a sexual relationship. Warren’s killers ran over his body to disguise the murder as a hit-and-run.
One notorious incident of gay-bashing occurred on September 22, 2000. Ronald Gay entered a gay bar in Roanoke, Virginia and opened fire on the patrons, killing Danny Overstreet and injuring six others. Ronald said he was angry over what his name now meant, and deeply upset that three of his sons had changed their surname. He claimed that he had been told by God to find and kill lesbians and gay men, describing himself as a “Christian Soldier working for my Lord”.
On June 16, 2001, Fred Martinez, a transgender student was attacked and beaten to death by 18-year old Shaun Murphy.
The 2002 homicide of Nizah Morris, a transgender in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and the mishandling of the case by the Philadelphia Police Department.
The killing of Gwen Araujo, a transsexual woman (1985 – 2002). Michael Magidson, Jaron Nabors, and José Merél were charged with the murder as a hate crime, with Jason Cazares charged as an accomplice. Nabors made a deal with prosecution, receiving a manslaughter conviction in exchange for testimony, but his testimony was largely considered unreliable. The jury hung on Cazares, who then pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter to avoid a retrial. Magidson and Merél were convicted of second-degree murder, but the hate crime enhancement was not accepted by the jury.
Sakia Gunn (May 26, 1987-May 11, 2003) was a 15-year old African American lesbian who was murdered in a hate crime in Newark, New Jersey. On the night of May 11, Gunn was returning from a night out in Greenwich Village, Manhattan with her friends. While waiting for the #1 New Jersey Transit bus at the corner of Broad and Market Streets in downtown Newark, Gunn and her friends were propositioned by two men. When the girls rejected their advances, by declaring themselves to be lesbians, the men attacked them. Gunn fought back, and one of the men, Richard McCullough, stabbed her in the chest. Both men immediately fled the scene in their vehicle. After one of Gunn’s friends flagged down a passing driver, she was taken to nearby University Hospital, where she died.
On June 17, 2003, Richie Phillips was murdered by Joseph Cottrell. His body was later found in a suitcase, in Rough River Lake. During his trial, Cottrell’s relatives testified that he lured Phillips to his death, and killed him because he was gay.
On July 23, 2003, Nireah Johnson and Brandie Coleman were murdered by Paul Moore, when Moore learned after a sexual encounter that Johnson was transgender.
On July 31, 2003, 37-year-old Glenn Kopitske was killed by 17-year-old Gary Hirte. Hirte pleaded insanity, claiming he killed Kopitske in a murderous rage after a consensual sexual encounter with the victim, because he felt a homosexual act was “worse than murder.”
On September 28, 2004, Sierra Leonean gay and lesbian rights activist FannyAnn Eddy was murdered while she was working late in her office. Her attackers have escaped from prison and have never been recaptured and prosecuted.
On October 2, 2004 two men in Waverly, Ohio beat Daniel Fetty to death with bricks and boards. Prosecuters believe it was because Fetty was gay.
On January 28, 2005, Ronnie Paris, a three-year-old African American child died due to brain injuries resulting from abuse by his father. According to his mother and other relatives, Ronnie Paris, Jr., would slam his son into walls and force him to “slap-box” because he was concerned the child was gay and feared his son would grow up a sissy.
On March 11, 2005, Jason Gage — an openly gay man — was murdered in his Waterloo, Iowa apartment by an assailant who claimed Gage had made advances and was killed when he fought with the victim. The district attorney in the case noted neither the victim or the perpetrator, or the apartment bore any signs of struggle. Gage was bludgeoned to death with a bottle, and stabbed in the neck with a shard of glass.
On February 2, 2006, 18 year-old Jacob D. Robida entered a bar in New Bedford, Massachusetts, confirmed that it was a gay bar, and then attacked patrons with a gun and a hatchet, wounding at least three.
On June 10, 2006, Kevin Aviance was robbed and beaten by a group of men who yelled anti-gay slurs at him
On July 30, 2006, six men were brutally beaten after leaving the San Diego, California Gay Pride festival. One of the gay men was beaten so badly that he had to undergo extensive facial reconstructive surgery. All but one of the attackers were adults the exception being a 15-year-old. The attackers were charged with hate crimes.
On October 8, 2006, Michael Sandy was attacked by four heterosexual young men who lured him into meeting after chatting with him online, while they were looking for gay men to rob. Sandy was hit by a car while trying to escape his attackers. He died five days later, never having regained consciousness.
On May 12, 2007, Roberto Duncanson was murdered in Brooklyn, New York. He was stabbed to death by Omar Willock, who claimed Duncanson had flirted with him.
May 16, 2007, Sean William Kennedy, 20, was walking to his car from Brew’s Bar in Greenville, SC when Andrew Moller, 18, got out of another car and approached Kennedy. Investigators said that Moller made a comment about Kennedy’s sexual orientation, and threw a fatal punch because he didn’t like another man’s sexual preference.
On February 12, 2008, Lawrence “Larry” King, a 15 year old junior highschool student was shot by a classmate at E.O. Green School in Oxnard, California. He was taken off life support after doctors declared him brain dead on February 15. According to Associated Press reports, “prosecutors have charged a 14-year-old classmate with premeditated murder with hate-crime and firearm-use enhancements”.
In February 2008, transsexual Duanna Johnson was beaten by a police officer while she was held in the Shelby County Criminal Justice Center. Johnson said the officers reportedly called her a “faggot” and “he-she,” before and during the incident.
In Rochester, New York on March 16, 2008 police say Lance Neve was beaten unconscious because Neve was gay. A man attacked Neve at a bar leaving him with a fractured skull, and a broken nose.
In Baltimore County, Maryland on May 29, 2008 eighteen year old Steven Parrish—a member of the Young Swans subgroup of the Bloods—was murdered by Steven T. Hollis III and Juan L. Flythe after they found “gay messages” on his cell phone. They felt having a gay member would make their gang appear weak and that by killing Parrish they could prevent that perception.
September 7, 2008 – Tony Randolph Hunter, 27, and his partner were attacked and beaten near a gay bar in Washington DC. Hunter later died from his injuries on September 18th. Police are investigating it as a possible hate crime.
Joshua Scott, M.A.
Long Island University
Joshua
Well, Ms. Kay responded PROMPTLY to my email.
“I think I should have made my opening point much more clear and not put it into parentheses. Opposition to gay marriage is not “rejection” of gays. I do not reject gays. Live and let live is my motto. I respect the notion of equality under the law, and gays certainly have that in North America. Of other cultures I do not speak. Gays are by no means the only people to suffer in certain lands. All women are discriminated against in those same lands and by the way all Jews are too, so the playing field is levelled there. Let’s stay right here where, by the way, hate speech and hate actions against Jews and blacks and Americans (remember 9/11?) take place all the time, but I don’t enumerate them to you, because we all understand that there are many ugly people in our society – as in all societies. That is not the issue here.
If you think I am trivializing the hatred of gays by biased people, I am not. I am demanding that the fight for gay marriage NOT be put in the same breath as the fight for civil rights for blacks. One is ideological activism for a special privilege, the other was a struggle for the institution of natural rights that had been stripped from an identifiable group of people based on their skin colour. It is apples and oranges.
If gays are hated by some people for their sexual preferences, then we must all work to eradicate that. But the editorial was not about hatred of gays, it ewas about blacks’ rejection of gay marriage. The Globe tried to conflate the two and to accuse blacks of being insensitive to gays. They had no right. Anyone can be against gay marriage – as I am – and have nothing but respect for gays as individuals leading their own private lives and observing their own social contracts with whomever they please.
If my views are “dangerous” then they are being wrongly interpreted. Not my problem. Yours. Barbara”
Joshua
And, finally, my response:
“I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. In my view, gays do not have equality under the law when there is not marriage equality.
Also, the fact that other groups are discriminated against does not mitigate that fact that any group is discriminated against.”
msim
The National Post is our “right-wing” newspaper and that woman does not have a very high profile in the Canadian media.
As a black Jewish lesbian; I have encountered more racism, sexism and anti-semitism than homophobia. So has my partner who is from the same communities.
However, when homophobia strikes it does not hurt me less than any other discrimination.
There shouldn’t be a hierarchy of suffering. All discrimation is untolerable.
This said, I lived 3 years in NYC, and encountered more discrimination than in my entire life in Canada.
Erin
The fact is that the fight for marriage equality should not even be a question.
It isn’t right for a majority of people to decide the rights of a minority. If we were deciding whether or not to allow a racial minority to marry, much more people would be up in arms about it.
It’s a sad state of affairs when hatred and bigotry are allowed to permeate through our political system. Let’s hope that things get better in the next few years, we can only hope…
Trenton
“One is ideological activism for a special privilege, the other was a struggle for the institution of natural rights that had been stripped from an identifiable group of people based on their skin colour. It is apples and oranges.”
I wonder if she made a good point in the second half of that sentence, because I can read no futher than the phrase “special privilege” before seeing nothing but red.
rayrayj
To Baraba,
I have:
A) a comment. As someone living with cancer, I find your analogy spurious. Moreover, the fact that I have cancer in no way alleviates the discomfort of someone with a cold. Should the person with a cold be denied treatment because it is not cancer?
and B) a question. How can you respect someone, and expect them to lead their lives in “private?”
My affection for my partner is a very public part of who I am. Furthermore, if I have to take financially onerous steps to transfer property after my death, although my heterosexual friends and relatives do not, I am not being treated fairly or equally. The argument that I could choose to have a different kind of relationship, should that argument arise is as ridiculous as the argument that I could choose to be a different gender. Although I could change my external appearance I would still be a man.
Barbara, if you believe that you respect me, you are deluding yourself. It is not possible to respect someone and believe that they are inferior or less deserving than yourself. I am not asking for a special privilege. I am demanding the “right” to marry whom I love. This is not a “gay rights” issue. This is a “human rights” issue.
That said, I return to my question worded differently. How does one oppose equal rights for a class of people and simultaneously argue, one is not opposed to that class of people?
Joshua
Ms. Kay:
If we cannot agree that there is a huge moral difference between a natural right – the right not to be owned by another – and the “right” to, shall we say, be a citizen of another country simply because you enjoy partying in that country even though you were not born there and have no intention of settling there or contributing to that country’s survival – then you are quite right, there is nothing further to talk about. Gays desire for marriage is a trivial psychological feel-good entitlement that makes no material difference to anyone’s life. I would be insulted as an African-American to have such a comparison made. Like comparing a house fire to the holocaust.
Joshua:
I guess the problem here is what we are referring to as civil rights. It appears we are talking about different categories of rights. The right not to be owned, or the right to freedom, is, I believe, a natural right. If we define civil rights as a group of rights that ensure the protection of a person’s phsyical integrity, equality under the law, protection of discrimination, etc., then there are commonalities in the black civil rights movements and gay civil rights movements.
However, setting up a false dichotomy between slavery and marriage equality to argue your point is, I believe, misleading. Of course the two are not comparable! And, I’m certainly not comparing the two.
Ms. Kay:
“Civil” rights to me are the right to vote, to have equal access to government services, etc and all the rest. Marriage is not a civil right, it is a social institution that preceded the state and the state hasn’t the right to define it, even though they have decided to arrogate that right to appease muddle-headed activists who cannot determine the differnce – actually they can but don’t – between a natural right to found a family which the state rubberstamps and calls a civil action, and the constructed “right” from nowhere for a group that has no relevance to this natural right to get the same rubberstamp in order to feel “equal”. The government does not rubberstamp marriage between brother and sister or marriage between father and daughter because they consider this “unnatural”. Well, if you can show me a more unnatural combo for marriage than gays, be my guest. It’s all about muddled logic and the wrong use of words. Barb
Joshua:
So, from my reading of your post, you are supposing that the natural right to found a family is irrelevant for gay couples? Before I counter this assertion, let me make sure it is the one you intended to make.
If this is the case, it is a matter of opinion, of which I do not share. There is also an evolutionary argument to support my stance, that being that gay couples have a particularly important and unique interest in establishing families. However, I am at work, and I have to return to my duties.
To Be Continued…Joshua
Joshua
Barb:
Yes, it is not a civil “right” for gays to found a family – obviously not a natural right – since I believe that wherever possible – or at least it is the state’s duty to promote – the right of the child to his biological father and mother (the UN agrees). To deny a child both sexes for role models as nature intended is to put an adult’s sexual appetites ahead of a child’s need for optimum conditions for psychological well-being.
Joshua:
I just can’t follow your reasoning. You go from one line of attack to another. To address every inconsitency I find would just be too time consuming, as every back-and-forth we have does not clarify points but further muddies them.
Now, you are talking about, I assume, gay couples procreating via surrogates or some other means. I’m not sure where to counter first. On marriage equality, adoption issues, artificial procreation, etc. I’m not clear on how “adult sexual appetites” have anything to do with forming a family (through adotion, fostering, etc.). The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, etc. support adoption by gay parents, citing no evidence that these children are at ANY disadvantage.
However, I feel like this back-and-forth has reached the point of becoming absurd, and I’m sure you’ll agree. Too many comparisons and extraneous arguments have been raised and I no longer have the energy to address them all.
Take care!
Joshua
Gianpiero
Not content to claim that the word “marriage” is theirs, the wingnuts now want to claim the word “discrimination” as well. Sheesh. Soon they’ll be back to the ancient argument that we’ve “ruined” the “perfectly good word ‘gay'” as well.
Tim
Hire Amy Sedaris to play this lunatic immediately! Remarkable Jerri Blank resemblance!
AJC
All homophobes are pathological liars. So what else is new?
Canada still has its homophobes who hide behind all kinds of intricate rationalizations. Their time is short and their arguments are desperate because the youth of today (with the exception of the religious nutjobs) do not buy this BS any longer. I apologize that some in Canada continue to feed such vermin.
seitan-on-a-stick
Oh, so now the right-wingers have gone North of the border? Progressives can come back now, the bogeyman Bush is a lame duck! Say it aint so, Joe! You betcha!
Brian Miller
I respect the notion of equality under the law, and gays certainly have that in North America.
Bullshit.
I understand the author is Canadian (and ignorant), but if she could explain how an American homosexual man can:
1) Get the same treatment under immigration law for his foreign partner as a heterosexual;
2) Bequeath shared assets to his partner without taxation upon his death;
3) Ensure that his partner can collect his social security after his death as a “spouse”;
4) Adopt in Arkansas, Florida and other jurisdictions;
5) Make medical decisions in the event of a partner’s incapacitation without thousands of dollars in legal expenditures on complex and often ignored power of attorney documents;
6) Claim his partner as a family member and claim the tax exemption;
7) Not be subject to tax on his partner’s domestic partner health benefits;
… then I’ll be all ears.
Until then, I must reject her rhetoric as the idiotic and moronic blathering of yet another straight right-wing Canadian who gets all of her knowledge about the United States from cross-border TV.
Brian Miller
And what’s with this “North America” bullshit?
North America includes the USA, Mexico and Canada as its principle members, and the peculiar Canadian habit of referring to the continent as a single entity — as though what is true in Toronto is also true in Tacoma, Topeka and Tampico, annoys the hell out of me.
Jim
@fredo777: Exactly! Same props to Stuart! Was there outreach to the minority communities in advance of the election re: Prop 8? Haven’t heard of it if there was. Sharpton would have been a PERFECT resource…for all the weirdness surrounding the Brawley case, I love Rev Al and have enormous respect for his directness and straight-talking style.
michael
She is a good example of why Canada does not allow the rights of its citizens to be decided by a popular vote. It is not that every citizen of Canada is some sort of enlightened being but it is because we know that as long as their is ignorance, intolerance and
hatred in the hearts of humankind people will need to be protected. I never read that newspaper so I might have never known of her comments. Thanks Queerty for bringing her to light so that I can warn others about her.
Charles J. Mueller
Why does there seem to be no end to the number of the dumb fucks like this?
Even more perplexing and disturbing to me is, why does my calling this person exactly what she is (dumb fuck) not give me the satisfaction I so desperately crave?
Thelea Draganic
I am upset about this erroneous finger pointing at African-Americans regarding Proposition 8. Why are you so quick to believe whatever you hear? If someone told me 70 percent of gay people voted against Obama my first thought would be, excuse me Jesus, that is crap! I don’t believe it! This political year was fraught with right wing lies. Bear that in mind.
“Religious organizations that support Proposition 8 include the Roman Catholic Church], Knights of Columbus, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson, American Family Association, Focus on the Family[and the National Organization for Marriage Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California’s largest, has also endorsed the measure. The Bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) has publicly supported the proposition and encouraged their membership to support it, by asking its members to donate money and volunteer time. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every congregation. Latter-day Saints have provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California. About 45% of out-of-state contributions to Protect Marriage.com has come from Utah, over three times more than any other state.”
Still, even though gays were fighting to preserve a basic right, it was the anti-equality side in California that seemed to have the most fervor. A symbolic low point for the gay side came on Oct. 13, when the Sacramento Bee ran a remarkable story about Rick and Pam Patterson, a Mormon couple of modest means – he drives a 10-year-old Honda Civic, she raises their five boys – who had withdrawn $50,000 from their savings account and given it to the pro-8 campaign. “It was a decision we made very prayerfully,” Pam Patterson, 48, told the Bee’s Jennifer Garza. “Was it an easy decision? No. But it was a clear decision, one that had so much potential to benefit our children and their children.â€
This is your real enemy. Don’t trust exit polls taken when many of these same groups taking them were angry with African-Americans about Obama beating their Christian Right coalition messiah ie Sarah Palin. I think they are pitting one group against the other. African-Americans are less than 7% of the state population, do the math. And they do not have the money to fund a tens of millions of dollars Proposition 8 campaign. Note that they also targeted affirmative action for eradication in another state.
Rather than be upset at the phantom African-American menace, put forth a gay candidate for office and fight like hell. No one gave Obama anything and they will not give gays anything either. Obama stands on the shoulders of a lot of brave people who gave their lives for him to stand on that podium last night.
Never trust exits polls because in all my years of life, no one has ever been seen at a polling place asking anyone anything when they left.
chuck
Barbara said: >”Beside the true discrimination blacks have suffered, the lack of a symbolic piece of paper in an otherwise unencumbered life is as insulting as moaning and groaning about your sniffles to a cancer survivor.”
If that does not sound like a, “My pain hurts more than your pain does, so your pain is of no consequence.” statement, then I do not know what does. Rayrayj addressed that spurious analogy beautifully. Straight from the horse’s mouth, as it were. Barbara should try walking a mile in another man’s moccasins, before making such outrageous statements.
Then the dumb fuck goes on to say, showing her lack of information and a level of ignorance that is astounding as well as appalling, >”Marriage is not a civil right, it is a social institution that preceded the state and the state hasn’t the right to define it, even though they have decided to arrogate that right to appease muddle-headed activists who cannot determine the difference”
Oh, really now? She has the unmitigated gall to toss the term “muddle-headed activists” at people she claims to respect?
A quick Google search will reveal, Ms. Smartass, that marriage did NOT precede the State. Precisely the opposite. Marriage was, in fact, a secular institution that goes back to even before the Greek and Roman Empires and it was not until the middle of the seventh century that the Church involved itself with the marriage ceremony.
In fact, marriage can and does completely outside the Church, as witnessed by the fact that one must have a license from the State to do so and one can be married by a Justice of the Peace, A ship’s captain and any of a number of secular persons without any church involvement whatsoever.
Ms. Kay has made so many uninformed, stupid comments, that it would be a joy to pick them to pieces like pulling petals off of a rose bud, but I realize that arguing with a stupid butt-head like her, is pointless.
She and Piss-pot Palin ought to get together for tea and compare notes. The dialogue would be the making of yet another hysterical SNL Tina Fey satire.
chuck
Correction: marriage can and does exist completely outside the Church…
Jon
Let’s just be clear about the provenance of this so called journalist. She works for the National Post which is a rare entity in Canada – a right wing newspaper. One which is regularly raked over the coals for it’s inaccurate reporting and all too often lies. Nobody but nobody read it unless they want a good laugh. It is a national joke in print. The only thing that keeps it going is the profits of the smaller, more liberal, regional papers it’s parent company (CanWest-Global) owns. Just ignore them like the rest of Canada does.