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Obama and McCain Define Marriage At Rick Warren Forum


Barack Obama and John McCain battled for so-called values voters at Pastor Rick Warren’s California mega church this weekend.

Appearing before 2,800 Evangelicals, the presidential hopefuls hoped to score big with their perspectives on abortion, the Supreme Court and, yes, gay marriage.

[Image via LA Times]


Obama appeared first and took Warren’s questioning like a champ. When asked to define marriage, Obama toed the holy line by nodding to man and woman, while also highlighting his own faith in nuptials, “I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. [Applause] Now, for me as a Christian, it’s also a sacred union. God’s in the mix.”

Warren went on to ask Obama whether he would endorse a Constitutional amendment defining marriage as such. And, as he has oft-said, the Senator replied in the negative. When asked to explain himself, Obama tied his political believes to the nation’s “tradition,” a key word in such devoted circles:

Because historically, we have not defined marriage in our constitution. It’s been a matter of state law. That has been our tradition. I mean, let’s break it down. The reason that people think there needs to be a constitutional amendment, some people believe, is because of the concern that — about same-sex marriage. I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage, but I do believe in civil unions. I do believe that we should not — that for gay partners to want to visit each other in the hospital for the state to say, you know what, that’s all right, I don’t think in any way inhibits my core beliefs about what marriage are. I think my faith is strong enough and my marriage is strong enough that I can afford those civil rights to others, even if I have a different perspective or different view.

Though McCain’s political view didn’t differ too sharply from Obama’s, his reasoning and blunt responses indicate he hasn’t really pondered the personal aspect of marriage

Apparently uneasy about the matter, McCain offered a far more memorized response to Warren’s queer questioning. When asked to define marriage, the Republican spouted this canned, almost robotic answer, “Union – a union between man and a woman, between one man and one woman. That’s my definition of marriage.” McCain then tried quite curtly to steer the conversation back to abortion and the Supreme Court. Warren, however, wasn’t having it and asked McCain about California’s Proposition 8, which hopes to overturn this year’s gay marriage win. Saying he believes the state’s Supreme Court made the wrong decision, McCain reiterated his support for federalism – the state’s right to determine its same-sex fate.


[Here's McCain discussing abortion, the gays and other matters. The homo bits come at the 1:12 mark.]
The Arizona Senator went on to say that while he doesn’t back a constitutional amendment on the matter, he supports his own state’s anti-marriage initiative. He would, however, support an amendment if a federal court attempted to criss-cross state lines:
In my state, I hope we will make that decision, and other states, they have to recognize the unique status between man and woman. And that doesn’t mean that people can’t enter into legal agreements. That doesn’t mean that they don’t have the rights of all citizens. I’m not saying that. I am saying that we should preserve the unique status of marriage between one man and one woman.

And if a federal court — if a federal court decided that my state of Arizona had to observe what the state of Massachusetts decided, then I would favor a constitutional amendment. Until then, I believe the states should make the decisions within their own states.

Earlier in the interview, when asked about his greatest moral failure, McCain said “the failure of my first marriage.”

Supreme Court justices also proved to be a hot topic, with Warren asking the candidates which Justices they would not have endorsed. Obama named Clarence Thomas, John Roberts and Antonin Scalia. For his part, McCain went for the left-leaning law lovers: Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, David Souter and John Paul Stevens. These four, he intimated, have been “legislating from the bench,” a favorite term in the right-wing world. The crowd, naturally, went wild, and seemed to favor the Republican over his Democratic rival, who garnered less enthusiastic applause throughout. But, you know the odds were kind of stacked against him.

By:           Andrew Belonksy
On:           Aug 17, 2008
Tagged: , , , , ,

  • 87 Comments
    • Charley
      Charley

      I don’t think Obama should have appeared at all. Blowhard Rick Warren’s church made a fortune off this debate, charging $1,000.00 each for tickets, and the proceeds are tax free because it is a church. How did this happen ? Who gave the OK ? The candidates, the DNC or GOP parties ? ? They wouldn’t consider accepting an invitation to debate at the MCC gay cathedral.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John Bisceglia
      John Bisceglia

      Why is this issue being legally controlled by a THEOCRACY?!?! I’ve just spent the last few minutes hearing 5 hetero-men on TV
      (Obama, McCain, Wolf Blitzer, et. al.) discuss my HUMAN RIGHT to marry the person I love. The Spiritual Arrogance alone is beyond insulting & degrading…but that is the sick part of this social dominance.

      Do Americans really think that the Exhalted Hetero-Sexual Marriage’s TWO SOULS are somehow MORE human and deserving of the legal rights & protections than the TWO SOULS found in a
      Homo-Loving Marriage?

      Our souls are equal. Our children’s souls are equal. More and more of us will not pay into a federal system that excludes us, because it is immoral to deny our families and children civil marriage (gay tax protest).

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • An Other Greek
      An Other Greek

      I agree Charley.

      It makes me really uncomfortable when religion is allowed to descend to showbiz with our leaders playing along…

      In addition, is anyone else offended at the blasphemous charlatanism that we witnessed tonight?

      I don’t claim to be religious, but I understand religion well (Christian), and I am shocked at the vulgar and anti-spiritual forum, and particularly, anti-Christian.

      I am not going to try to interpret Christ’s said words. But I’ll repeat a line he is DIRECTLY credited with, that “It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven, than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.” These words Christians believe to be Christ’s, not some cleric’s or evangelist’s.

      The image of a cleric (charlatan?) and a sold-out politician LAUGHING TOGETHER AND SALIVATING OVER MONEY AND WAR was disgusting, shocking, and creepy.

      Really.

      Also, hat’s up with ALL, and I mean A-L-L the talking heads orgasmically declaring McCain’s triumph? They have no shame. And to add insult to injury, they have no shame admitting that they are more interested in STYLE than substance… There was no analysis on substance that I can recall, it was all STYLE, and thus proudly declared!

      Last I checked I don’t need a journalist telling me what “AN AVERAGE AMERICAN WILL THINK”, I rather would have them analyze, fact-check, and report… What followed this “spiritual forum” was not journalistic analysis but naked corporatist punditry… Disgusting.

      Obama made a mistake to go. Having said that he performed very well, and dealt with the marriage question as well as could be expected from a politician who will likely become executive, as opposed to a single-issue or fringe candidate.

      ———————————————————-e

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      The MSNBC post forum was just pukingly pro-McCain.
      Who knew having Tony Perkins with KKK ties and Pat Robertson who rabidly frightened Republicans with his Convention Culture War speech would favor McSame?
      I’m getting a real bad feeling the networks are in full mode to sell America the STUPID candidate…AGAIN.
      Give us simplistic canned answers, and let’s have a G*D DAMN BEER.
      How can these NEWS channels look at the horrific mess Cheney/Bush made and want STUPID, for another administration?

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charley
      Charley

      Here is a link that states the Saddleback Church made upward of $10 Million, and only rich GOP’s could afford tickets. (McCain got more applause due to this fact)

      http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/presidentialelection/article_2122308.php

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lil' tOmtOm
      Lil' tOmtOm

      ugh can someone find obama a cotton field to work in…

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      Can’t you just hear Rove and Cheney cackling with joy that these dumb f*ckin evangelicals bought the BAIT AGAIN. I hope these “Christian leaders” remember what a JOKE Rove and Cheney thought they were,and laughed at their dumb asses being sent packing from the White House with NOTHING.
      http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1210139/Mission.jpg
      above is an image I made

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John K.
      John K.

      Obama does not believe a word he is saying about gay marriage. I really believe he is completely for it but knows he can’t say that. Listen to how labored his response is. This great orator can’t even make subject and verb agree when he talks about this issue (“I don’t think in any way inhibits my core beliefs about what marriage are”).

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John K.
      John K.

      That said, it makes me sick to listen to him.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      lil ‘tomtom
      “ugh can someone find obama a cotton field to work in…”

      How really ignorant frightened little white men are that their absolute MAJORITY power has shifted away from them. Emphasis on LITTLE.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • john
      john

      McCain did better in this forum, his answers were to the point. Obama’s were longwinded. Obama tried to dance around his strongly pro abortion rights record. ( he has never supported any regulations on abortion and wants to legalize partial birth abortion and abolish parental notification laws)

      Obama also mislead, saying his biggest moral dillema and toughest decision was to oppose the Iraq war. He wasnt even elected to the senate in 2002/2003 and made no such decision, nor was his personal view on the war courageous since he was representing a liberal democratic district in a blue state.

      Obama also mislead regarding a SINGLE time when he broke with party solidarity. He mentioned campaign finance rules with McCain, but Obama actually backtracked on that, and received a rebuke from McCain 2 years ago when the law was passed.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • john
      john

      The fact is that McCain revealed a great deal of depth and experience. Obama was all ” um, ah, ugh, um” to give himself time to make something up.

      Obama has never really gone against the party line in a detrimental way and he has never had to make a tough political decision, he was just elected a few years ago and has been running for president for most of that time, absent for half of his very first senate term, which he hasnt even finished yet.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 1:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • An Other Greek
      An Other Greek

      “blah, blah, blah… and he has never had to make a tough political decision, blah blah” McCain rules Obama sucks, yeah, we get it…

      thanks for the analysis, and

      surely opposing the war was just another convenient easy non-decision…

      ———————————————————–

      Aug 17, 2008 at 2:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charley
      Charley

      Not Obama’s best performance that’s for sure. Warren was there to intimidate by bringing up past weaknesses in character. He needs to distance himself from so called “religious athority figures” and stick with reasonable and optimistic thinking about the future.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 2:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GoodBuddy
      GoodBuddy

      I have not been an Obama fan, but I have always thought he was smart. But appearing before this forum was not a smart move. I suspect he thought he could charm the evangelical voters. I doubt they have been charmed and he stands to turn off his base supporters by pandering to the evangelicals.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 2:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jack E. Jett
      Jack E. Jett

      This was the biggest crock of shit ever seen on TV, including all the Love Boat reunitions put together.

      Who ever decided that Obama should take part in this holy roller fest should be fired.

      McInsane was allowed just to do his basic stump speech with Rev Dickweed inserting questions then allowing McInsane to continue with…..”my friends
      i was a POW, if you live long enough anything can happen, France becomes our friend, war is the answer to everything……just a freaking mush mouth little bitch.

      Obama better get fucking tough, wake up, stop playing pussy to those evil xtions, and get a set of balls.

      This is the reason I wanted Hillary Clinton, she would have said no to the Jesus Fest, and be telling McCain to go fuck himself.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 3:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AJ
      AJ

      Theocratic nonsense and clerical charlatanry.

      It would be much more entertaining for CNN to have Carla Bruni ask Obama and McCain about their own sexual peccadilloes, fetishes, and fantasies. The U.S. is still a secular republic, n’est pas?

      And why do so many high-profile “evangelical” snake-oil peddlers seem to be morbidly obese? Don’t the desert religions condemn gluttony? Or have they all turned into the dessert religions?

      Aug 17, 2008 at 3:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JamesR
      JamesR

      I am gonna guess you edited out the phrase “placeholder for” in front of “the Court’s first black Justice” – Clarence Thomas is, er, actually the SECOND black justice, the first being of course Thurgood Marshall, as Worthy as Thomas is Unworthy. I know you knew that. I know someone knew that… Hasty hasty typey typey.

      And for more fun with this topic: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/17/02247/6361/368/569146 – evidence, suspicion, that McCain knew the exact wording of the questions he was not supposed to know. Cheating, as it were, in Church no less. Quelle Surprise.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • slider
      slider

      I agree with John (comments 11 and 12)

      Obama rambled and rambled. I mean he tried to weasel out of what he determined to be when life began and said it was “above his pay grade” The Presidency is above Obama’s pay grade too. Plus, he lied when he said the most difficult decision was his giving a speech (as Hillary Clinton said “Obama gave a speech and based his run for President on it” in 2002, when he was not even considering running for U.S. Senate and had not announced he was running for that office, which he ran for 2 years later.

      Obama lied about crossing the aisle to work on bipartisan legislation, which was he back tracked on campaign finance reform with John McCain in 2005….just as he did again in 2008 and lied and said he would take public financing for the general election then didn’t.

      If Obama is for same sex marriage then why is he engaging in the politics as usual. I find him to be very homophobic given the characters he hangs with (ala Donny McClerken etc.) and he has as much believability as John Kerry did in 2004 when he said he was against same sex marriage and supported the proposed Massachusetts ban on same sex marriage that was trying to get passed but then said he was against the federal marriage amendment to the Constitution and viewed marriage as between a man and a woman only….just like good old Obama whose own parents at the time would not be allowed to marry in most states…..the smell of hypocrisy from NObama never ceases to amaze me.

      At least McCain is honest and says it is a state rights issue since marriage is decided at the state level and not the federal level.

      Obama will not get my vote since his Change is far from anything I can ever believe in……and his hope won’t pay my bills as he wrecks the economy worse then it is and taxes the hell out of all of us…and no I am not a registered Republican or a Log Cabin Republican….just tired of the bullshit coming out of Obama…I mean he even stripped away GLBT support in the Democratic Platform…hardly the change I will ever believe in…

      I am voting for McCain and at least I know I won’t get bullshit from him….and yes, I do believe in energy independence, fiscal responsibility in our government, a strong national security and a strong economy that we need to create here at home..

      Nobama won’t be ever getting my vote…..4 years of him will make Jimmy Carter look like a genius during 4 of the worst years of any President.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 5:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JamesR
      JamesR

      Damn – You get a signal under that bridge?

      Aug 17, 2008 at 5:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      “It’s been a matter of state law. That has been our tradition.”

      So has been slavery and Jim crow.

      “I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage, but I do believe in civil unions.”

      Hmmm…..and I’m a born again believer in Jim crow. Yep separate but equal when it comes to race
      is my new found believe here in the USA. Blacks I gather will be more than happy and supported as
      fervently as they do second class citizenship for us. I fail to understand the fanaticism some GLBT have for this guy, really no self respecting Homo should cast a vote for him.
      His only real talent is muddying the water so that his retrograde positions are not as clear as that of McCain’s. He’s only using some of us to get himself elected but if he gets in eight years latter we will find ourselves in the same place regarding our issues or in a worst position.
      Hallelujah for a second class citizenship in ’08 and beyond !

      Aug 17, 2008 at 6:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      Three salient facts about McCain

      1. he has a temper

      2. he told the Religious Right off to their faces, after he was no longer a candidate in 2000

      3. he TOSSED a wife (who worked 5 years for his release from North Viet Nam), after she was disfigured and disabled after a near fatal car crash, along with 2 adopted sons and a daughter. He also got his 2nd marriage license to his blonde 15 year younger pillionaire, a MONTH before his divorce was finalised.

      While Cheney and Rove laughed with disdain as clueless trusting Evangelicals left their offices with NOTHING, year, after year, after year, even they didn’t tell them off publicly.

      These facts will matter if McCain becomes president, he’ll TOSS you Evangelicals in a heart beat. He also won’t invite you back any other year. He’ll do this for SPITE.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 6:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      The salient sole fact about Obama when it comes to GLBT issues is:

      He is the same as McCain or worst since he is telling us the same as McCain with a smile and using different wording. He is in simple terms telling us that we’re stupid in our own faces.

      Ageism aside as shown by ^ # 22, Since I don’t like either of these two jerks the fact that McCain might be an only one term president due to his age is the only pro I see in this whole disgusting election of ’08. Four years of him(as opposed to eight of phony Obama) and there’s hope for a better more progressive and brave candidate that support us.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 7:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr C
      Mr C

      And Churchill-Y you know what
      The salient sole fact
      about Clinton is the same.

      Tell me one thing that Hillary said she would do for gays that Obama wouldn’t take off your HATE hat and become a REALITY thinker.

      Neither one believes in Gay Marriage
      And they both back civil unions and they both back Hate Crime laws that would including Gays.

      I don’t get this statement from you either:

      there’s hope for a better more progressive and brave candidate that support us.

      Really? Who,You’re not going to find one!

      Aug 17, 2008 at 7:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr C
      Mr C

      OH wait I didn’t read this quote: From Churchchimp-Y He said:

      Hmmm…..and I’m a born again believer in Jim crow. Yep separate but equal when it comes to race
      is my new found believe here in the USA.

      Do you feel that way about Latinos and Asians ?

      Well if you feel that way than may you NEVER have anything. You’re a Hateful FAG .
      It’s really amazing How Obama has brought forth your hate.

      But WOW Fags like you may not like us Blacks.
      But I bet you won’t spew this shit LIVE
      in person neither!

      I guess you can say Thank Goodness for the net.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 7:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • lyssa
      lyssa

      Disgusting. Repulsive. I nearly vomited.

      A bunch of straight dudes who could give two shits less about gay folk deciding gay lives.

      Denying full humanity in the house of the Lord…Jesus is pissed tonight.

      Of course, it is TOTALLY DIFFERENT and completely okay for non trans gays to do the same to trans peeps. Because nontrans people like Elizabeth Birch, lesbian feminists who bash trans women, and transphobic gay guys like Barney deciding that trans lives are expendable is completely A-OK.

      Hmmm…FAG: Glass houses. Stones. Do the math.

      And yes, your cause is just,,,its just that a lot ofg transfolk won’t have the basic necessities of life to come to your aid.

      Wonder why.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 8:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      McSame was NOT sequestered during Obama’s portion of the forum, he was in his limo, with full access to what was being answered.

      CHEATING at a religious forum,,,isn’t there a circle of Hell for that?

      Aug 17, 2008 at 8:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      churchlady we ALL know the one salient fact you can’t get over about Obama. So cut the BULLSH*T you care about his GLBT stance, you see nothing beyond his skin color.

      Aug 17, 2008 at 8:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wefreeapplem
      wefreeapplem

      dog head tom yahoo pets trust juicy free boat look free

      Aug 17, 2008 at 9:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • freegoogleen
      freegoogleen

      right stone steven free google england key stay global key jhon all land yahoo elephant ugly go home yahoo all land

      Aug 17, 2008 at 9:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      This from: http://www.essortment.com/all/historyofmarri_rimr.htm

      The history of marriage.

      Are you familiar with the history of marriage and customs and laws. Marriage customs reflect public need and opinio

      “It is very hard to be able to establish a true date on the first marriages although the Old Testament in the Bible does mention a little about marriage as it was considered a family and household affair. The oldest male relative was the caretaker of the girls and the prospective husband would ask the father for the girl after first bringing him gifts to win his approval. The mother was dominated by the father and had no choice in the matter. The father would transfer the daughter to the prospective husband in public as this showed that he approved this transfer and that the groom had the father’s approval. After this transfer the bride and groom ate a meal together with the families and then the groom took the bride home. In the Old Testament of the Bible there is no mention of a formal exchange of vows or of a preacher or priest being present at this union.

      In the time of the Roman Empire (17 B.C.- A.D. 476) the lower classes who became Christians later had common law or free marriages. The father would deliver the bride and the agreement of the two was called a consensus to wed. Then eventually as Christianity spread the church interpreted a “free” marriage as a conscience marriage. This agreement meant that each partner was to keep the marriage vows and the marriage intact.

      There were Romans who were very wealthy who would sign documents consisting of listing property rights and letting all know that they wanted this union to be legalized and not to be thought of as a common law marriage. Thus this began the official recording of marriages as we do today. Roman men could dissolve the marriage any time as it was a male privilege, not one accorded to females.

      In A.D. 527-565 during the rein of Justinian lawyers drew up laws called the Justinian Code and this was a regulation of their daily life including marriage. Up until the time of the Justinian Code just saying you were married was enough.

      Until the ninth century marriages were not church involved. Up until the twelfth century there were blessings and prayers during the ceremony and the couple would offer their own prayers. Then priests asked that an agreement be made in their presence. Then religion was added to the ceremony.

      English weddings in the thirteenth century among the upper class became religious events but the church only blessed the marriage and did not want a legal commitment. In 1563 the Council of Trent required that Catholic marriages be celebrated at a Catholic church by a priest and before two witnesses. By the eighteenth century the wedding was a religious event in all countries of Europe.

      In Colonial times in North America the customs of the old countries were followed. There were some who only wanted a civil ceremony and not a religious ceremony. The Colonists who wanted civil marriages passed laws to this effect.

      Civil magistrates would perform marriage ceremonies and they would even include prayers in the ceremony.

      Viriginia was a colony that stayed with the customs of the church and did not permit anyone to have a civil marriage ceremony as they followed the Church of England. By the end of the eighteenth century both religious and civil marriage ceremonies were legal in American.

      In European countries today, civil marriage ceremonies are legal as in America. Even in England, the couple can choose to have either a religious or civil ceremony.”

      Of particular note is the fact that until the ninth century marriages were not church involved.
      This fact can be verified by any number of sources with a simple Google search.

      So tell me this? How does the Church and all these slaves to religion get away with the disingenuous lie that ‘marriage’ has been a religious institution for the past 5,000 years, as we’ve heard them proclaim all too often. It just ain’t so.

      Like the vast majority of the claims made by the Church, there is not a shred of evidence to validate or support their outright lies.

      The above information, which can be validated, is in direct contradiction to what the church is claiming. Ergo, that argument holds no water whatsoever in their ridiculous attempts to ‘save’ an institution that has a 50% failure rate.

      Next, the evangelicals will be claiming that this failure rate is caused by gays ‘seducing’ the partners of married people?

      Hey, I know that sounds ridiculous, but no more so than their arguments that marriage is one man and one woman, standing at the altar of a Church.

      Get the Airwick spray out. It smells like bullshit.

      Aug 18, 2008 at 12:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason
      Jason

      Shepards will change, but sheep remain sheep.

      Aug 18, 2008 at 8:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ousslander
      ousslander

      Mr. C I believe Churchill was being sarcastic, because Obama is all for a separate but equal for gays. I guess it’s rascist to say anything bad about Obama!
      What I really love is how most comments attack McCain but give Obama a pass for saying the same thing.very sad.

      Aug 18, 2008 at 10:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      >What I really love is how most comments attack McCain but give Obama a pass for saying the same thing.very sad.

      Then again, Obama has not called gays in the military an ‘abomination’ and an “intolerable risk”.

      He also has not stated that he would back DOMA if the states don’t fall in line about opposing gay-marriage as McCain would like them to.

      Aug 18, 2008 at 10:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr C
      Mr C

      Hey Ousslander, You can’t be serious defending Churchill-Y unless your thoughts are alike?

      being sarcasting???…you find that this statement:

      Hmmm…..and I’m a born again believer in Jim crow. Yep separate but equal when it comes to race
      is my new found believe here in the USA.

      being sarcastic??? Or have you read most of his other statements

      If your Gay here and you stumble upon a black neighborhood you need to venture with caution while watching your back and get out from it as fast as you can.

      And here’s another one

      Obama will peel enough of them. He already has just by his melanin. They are 13-14 % of the US population. And like all good black liberation theology practitioners they’ll head down the polls to cast a vote for him while thinking to themselves G*d D***mn America

      And here’s another one

      And still some people refuse to admit the homophobia of certain minorities.

      Enough said,
      You show me ONE time I have said things racially against caucasians, or against McCain racially. You won’t find it because that’s not how I get down.
      But I repsond to him as such because the stupid young fag has alot HATE within him. If he does’nt like Obama because of Clinton that’s fine. But to use an entire race of people as an excuse.PLEASE!

      Just keep it damn real and just say I Churchill-Y am racist. Not that we care. She’s the one with HATE. Not us and we’re not scared neither

      We already know it. Just be a MAN about it.

      So to answer your question no if you say something about Obama it isn’t racist. But when a whole race of people have to be involved because of Obama sure it is!

      Just because he opposes Gay Marriage? By the way Clinton feels the same and McCain feels that you shouldn’t have SHIT. Because if it’s left to the states as he (McCain) wants it. Then where would you really be????

      That would be SEPARATE AND UNEQUAL

      Aug 18, 2008 at 10:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      I didn’t know you could see through cyber space into other peoples hearts. You know nothing about me and yet you claim to know my thoughts. Since you seem so interested in my heart and mind let me provide with a small glimpse into it: when I was naive and followed in the footsteps of my grandparents , I was very involved in social work withing black organizations even though I stood out like a sore thumb I didn’t care because in my mind back then I thought I was helping in social change with a group of people who felt the same way about every other minority(my GLBT community included) and not just themselves, yes Mr C racist old me.
      Anyone with an IQ above 20 can see what I meant by the statement you quoted. You do have a very selective memory, yes you have many a times tippy-toed around insulting caucasians with racial innuendos. Anyone just needs to see your primary posts and see what you have written. In fact that’s when I started posting here in Queerty, to your trash talk. But enough of that I’m not going to lower myself into the racial mud because I know that’s what you want instead of focusing on the stances of this man.

      Aug 18, 2008 at 11:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bob R
      Bob R

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      Aug 18, 2008 at 12:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
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