Once upon a time, Barack Obama supported gay marriage. Yes, we said that right: marriage. Not this civil union shenanigans he’s trying to pass off.
While running for the Illinois State Senate in 1996 (just 12 years ago!), Obama told the gay newspaper Outlines he was committed to full marriage rights for gay men and women: “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.”
The Windy City Times, which bought Outlines in 2000, went through its archives with a comb to find Obama’s exact wording. And there it is, in black and white with rainbow trim, is Obama’s declaration. (Full article herein PDF.)
So, what changed between 1996 and 2008? Did Obama mean marriage for all people ... living in Illinois? Or was opting for the safer "civil unions" stance just a political gimmick to win the presidency?
Reports the WCT:
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
During the final weeks of the presidential campaign
last fall, several media outlets contacted
Windy City Times because of an old Internet
story from the 1996 Illinois State Senate race.
In that campaign, Outlines newspaper, which
merged with Windy City Times in 2000, reported
that 13th District candidate Barack Obama supported
gay marriage. Reporters wanted to know
what exactly Obama had said.
Outlines newspaper, as with the new Windy
City Times, surveyed candidates for all levels of
elected office, and also reported on the results
from pro-gay and progressive groups. We summarized
the results in that 1996 article by Trudy
Ring, but did not list exact answers to questions.
In that article Outlines did note that Obama was
a supporter of same-sex marriage; that article
was never challenged or corrected by Obama.
Now, in the process of sorting through my 25
years of archives of Chicago gay reporting to
eventually post materials on www.ChicagoGay-
History.org, I have found the original surveys on
which Ring’s reporting was based. Sometimes, it
pays to keep those boxes.
IMPACT, which was Chicago’s main GLBT political
action committee for several years, surveyed
Obama and other candidates, as did Outlines.
What we are including with this special Presidential
Inaugural issue of Windy City Times are
copies of the answers to the IMPACT and Outlines
questions. For IMPACT, the Obama campaign
simply responded on the form. For Outlines, the
candidate typed in his answers and signed his
letter.
More recently, as Obama has run for higher of-
fice, from senator to president, he has further
shaped his views on marriage, and now he does
not back same-sex marriage. In a January 2004
interview I conducted with Obama at the Windy
City Times’ office, Obama clearly stated that lack
of support for full marriage equality was a matter
of strategy rather than principle, but in even
more recent comments, it appears he is backing
off even further, saying it is more of a religious
issue, and also a “state” issue, so he favors civil
unions. Both are compromises most gays do
not support. First, the U.S. has a separation of
church and state, and laws are in place locally
and nationally that give benefits based on the
very word, “marriage.” Therefore, marriage as it
is now defined is a government (both state and
federal) institution that comes with specific fi-
nancial and social benefits (taxes, benefits, inheritance,
immigration, custody, etc.). So, until
government eliminates the word “marriage” from
state and federal laws, it is a government issue,
and that includes the federal government.
Obama’s answer to the 1996 Outlines question
was very clear: “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages,
and would fight efforts to prohibit such
marriages.” There was no use of “civil unions,”
no compromise whatsoever.
The IMPACT marriage question was a bit less
direct. It asked if Obama would support a Marriage
Resolution being considered at the time,
which read in part “Because marriage is a basic
human right and an individual personal choice,
RESOLVED, the state should not interfere with
same-gender couples who [choose] to marry and
share fully and equally in the rights, responsibilities
and commitment of civil marriage.” Obama
responded: “I would support such a resolution.”
What follows are Obama’s responses in our
Windy City Times 2004 interview, six years after
his successful 1996 state Senate run, when he
was now running for U.S. Senate:
Tracy Baim: Do you have a position on marriage
vs. civil unions?
Barack Obama: I am a fierce supporter of domestic-
partnership and civil-union laws. I am
not a supporter of gay marriage as it has been
thrown about, primarily just as a strategic issue.
I think that marriage, in the minds of a lot
of voters, has a religious connotation. I know
that’s true in the African-American community,
for example. And if you asked people, ‘should
gay and lesbian people have the same rights
to transfer property, and visit hospitals, and et
cetera,’ they would say, ‘absolutely.’ And then if
you talk about, ‘should they get married?’, then
suddenly …
TB: There are more than 1,000 federal benefits
that come with marriage. Looking back in
the 1960s and inter-racial marriage, the polls
showed people against that as well.
Obama: Since I’m a product of an interracial
marriage, I’m very keenly aware of …
TB: But you think, strategically, gay marriage
isn’t going to happen so you won’t support it at
this time?
Obama: What I’m saying is that strategically,
I think we can get civil unions passed. I think
we can get SB 101 passed. I think that to the
extent that we can get the rights, I’m less concerned
about the name. And I think that is my
No. 1 priority, is an environment in which the
Republicans are going to use a particular language
that has all sorts of connotations in the
broader culture as a wedge issue, to prevent us
moving forward, in securing those rights, then I
don’t want to play their game.
TB: If Massachusetts gets marriage and this
gives momentum to the proposed federal Constitutional
amendment against gay marriage?
Obama: I would oppose that.
After Obama’s WCT interview, he called to
clarify that he opposed the proposed U.S. Constitutional
amendment banning gay marriage.
He said he also opposed the two proposed state
bills banning same-sex marriage.
During his presidential campaign, he has remained
consistent with his 2004 position, but
clearly he has moved away from the 1996 statement
of “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages.”
A rose is a rose is a rose, but civil unions are not
“marriage” unless 100 percent of the benefits
are the same across all states and the federal
government.
The full 2004 interview can be found at:
http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/
news/ARTICLE.php?AID=3931
JonDorian
It’s like people forgot the meaning of politics or something. You play the game so that you can make a difference. Perhaps he wanted to get some attention in 2000 (what better way to do that than raise the gay marriage noise?) Perhaps now he’s making his true beliefs known. Or maybe he’s telling people what they want to hear or trying not to anger too many people while giving us a hint on the direction he’ll take in the future; we’ll never know until we see what gets done.
Frankly I think we’re wasting time trying to figure it out rather than let the right people know what we believe is right.
BrianZ
Wait, let me hitch up my girdle and get the boys in tight so I can get the expression just right:
*gay-gasp*
Wait, who was it that accused an opponent of the “say anything” to get elected mentality? Oh, that’s right. Nevermind.
rrgg
JonDorian —
BrianZ has it right. Obama is just like all the rest, telling people what they want to hear to get elected. He’s already changed his position on several issues in the past 12 months and hasn’t even started yet (and I’m not talking economic policy and programs).
getreal
Which is worse? A politician who gravitates to a more moderate point of view to appeal to a general audience but has a genuine sense that gays and lesbians are equal and deserve equal rights or a politician that thinks the idea of gay marriage wrong and unnatural and that gays are sick? I’m sick of reading all the nasty comments about Barak Obama. Let’s not forget he included lesbians and gays in his first speech after he was elected NO PRESIDENT IN HISTORY DID THAT.Clearly he actually considers LGTG people constituents which you can’t say about virtually ALL the current Republican leadership.
Michael W.
Plenty of us always suspected that Obama was just playing the game. There it is in plain English. And look where it got him. Would he be our President-elect today if he supported gay marriage? Would he even have gotten the Democratic nomination?
How many more electoral votes would McCain have had to work with when the GOP revived gay marriage as a major wedge issue like they did in 2004?
Obama is a friend of ours. There’s a few YouTube clips of him defending us, including the 2004 senate debate with Alan Keyes where he adamantly spoke up for our right to adopt.
The only ones among us still wary of Obama are the Clintonistas still bitter over Hillary. Many of them were so angry that they resorted to voting for McCain, giving him 27% of the gay vote, the highest ever for a Republican candidate. These people couldn’t wait to throw Obama under the bus and pounced on the Rick Warren controversy to write him off before he could be sworn in. But those of us who see the big picture, who see the Obama/Axelrod masterplan are still with him. Those who can’t see it are perpetually doubtful even though they don’t have 1/8 the mental and political acumen of Barack Obama.
Wondermann
I’m not sure he would have won if he pushed gay marriage forward in his campaign. Again…we need to wait and see what happens in the year to come. This jumping to conclusions act is getting old fast.
jake
It’s the game. I hope we win.
Wondermann
@Michael W.: You make a great point, now if more folks get it, we can move on
The Gay Numbers
He’s a politician. This is good news. This means we can push him in our direction on issues. We have already seen this in recent weeks. Let me let Glenn Greenwald from Salon sum up my position:
“Politicians, by definition, respond to political pressure. Those who decide that it’s best to keep quiet and simply trust in the goodness and just nature of their leader are certain to have their political goals ignored. It’s always better — far better — for a politician to know that he’s being scrutinized closely and will be praised and supported only when his actions warrant that, and will be criticized and opposed when they don’t.”
He adds:
“FDR was, of course, a consummate political leader. In one situation, a group came to him urging specific actions in support of a cause in which they deeply believed. He replied: “I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it.”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/01/13/obama/index.html
The Christian Right is so powerful despite being a small segment of our population (less than 20 percent) because they are pushy about it out of proportion to their actual size. Even we over exaggerate their power becasue they are good at making us think they are so powerful.
I advocate that gays become real about how politics is played. Where we have failed in the last decades is to want to go off into the la-la land of which politics is not hard nosed. Let’s push him.
Alfredo Munoz
Aha, you say, there’s no evidence of any quid pro quo here. (Or, in other words,
Chagoury gives a fortune to Clinton because he, too, wants to “fight AIDS.”) Of
course, this may only be seed money for a later “quid” or even “quo” that hasn’t
yet materialized. And if Chagoury or anyone else had ever received the
impression that the Clintons would play for pay, it’s easy to see how he got the
idea. (See my Nov. 24, 2008, Slate column on the investigations of the Clinton
campaign-finance scandals and the shenanigans surrounding the Marc Rich pardon.)
But does a contribution to Bill Clinton’s foundation get you any traction with
Sen. Clinton, at least in her political and official capacity? Let’s see. A
recent story in the New York Times managed to begin with some very crisp and
clear and fact-based paragraphs:
An upstate New York developer donated $100,000 to former President Bill
Clinton’s foundation in November 2004, around the same time that Senator
Hillary Rodham Clinton helped secure millions of dollars in federal assistance
for the businessman’s mall project.
Mrs. Clinton helped enact legislation allowing the developer, Robert J.
Congel, to use tax-exempt bonds to help finance the construction of the
Destiny USA entertainment and shopping complex, an expansion of the Carousel
Center in Syracuse.
Mrs. Clinton also helped secure a provision in a highway bill that set aside
$5 million for Destiny USA roadway construction.
Why should anyone doubt, then, that in small matters as well as in large ones,
the old slogan from the 1992 election still holds true? As Bill so touchingly
put it that year, if you voted for him, you got “two for one.” What the
country—and the world—has since learned is a slight variation on that, which I
would crudely phrase as “buy one, get one free.”
CHANGE-WE CAN BELIEVE IN
The Gay Numbers
Obama being a politician does not mean he can not produce change. That statment alone is ignorance. LBJ, FDR and others were pragmatic hardnosed politicians first, and, yet, they produced change that lasted generations and reshaped our society.
The problem is not whether Obama can produced change. The problem is that we live in a society that now thinks change is a magical process upon which one sprinkles a little fairy dust and make believe. Chanage is fighting to obtain political power.
Bill Perdue
@getreal:
“Which is worse? A politician who gravitates to a more moderate point of view… By moderate GETREAL means bigoted. Opposition to same sex marriage on superstitious (religious) ground while supporting the second class status inherent in civil unions is the essence of right wing superstitious (religious) bigotry. GETREAL, tell the truth. Is that why you like Obama so much?
I’m sick of reading all the nasty comments about Barak Obama.
Get used to it.
We’re sick of people with personal and partisan agendas trying to get us to excuse bigots like Obama, Clinton and McCain. Sure he wants our vote, but that didn’t prevent him from running a campaign of unending pandering to bigots.
Or to torpedoing our chances in California by using the forum given him by southern baptist cult leader Warren (who’s since been amply repaid) to lash out at same sex vote in a Clintonesqe bid to capture bigot votes. As it turns out Obama was successful in getting those bigot votes and in galvanizing the entire christist right, mostly Republican and mostly Euroamerican to vote against us and for Prop 8.
Obama’s bigotry, repeated over and over by the mormon and catholic cults, clobbered us. I know you think that’s no big deal but a lot of us do.
So yeah, GETREAL, get used to it.
Steven
@Michael W.: “The only ones among us still wary of Obama are the Clintonistas still bitter over Hillary.”
I donated $5000 to Obama and $0 to Clinton. I place the blame for the passage of Prop 8 on the Altar of Obama. He said nothing about the “out-of-context” quotes from him about same-sex marriage. He (and his campaign) knew exactly what they were doing: they threw my marriage under the bus to become president.
Then he b*tch-slapped us with the Warren invocation. Don’t get me started…
But better Obama than McCain. I still want my $5000 back.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@getreal:
Your wasting your breath.
White gays are racist, we all know that.
But it is funny,the only thing he has done wrong towards gays is say he opposes marriage..thats fucking all.
Fucked up right? He has never, ever said he is against gays like McCain et all, he EVEN spoke about gays in front of an all black nutty religous crowd-what did Hilary do that groundbreaking towards gays?-but y’know, he is THE devil.
Ahem.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Bill Perdue:
Again, what did you think when he faced that hostile nutty religous black crowd and told them not to be homophobic?
It was a game?
For who smart ass??
What was HE gaining by doing that??
Damn, it’s like you wheel me in to argue with you when I know you are irrational and debate without logid or hard evidence.
Are you insane??
What would it do for Obama to say he is pro gay marriage, when 56% of Americans (allegedly) are not and your frigging country was founded by fundementalist religous nuts who escaped Europe because their ideals were too extreme??
Do you not get that life and the world is about power??
Have you never in all your living life heard of working the system to make it right?
Whatever. People like you and the above posters are the kind of people that would say I’m the root of all evil because I’m doing an MBA and working for a corporate company-to actually get power and make change-despite the fact that I’ve been giving money, working with socialist causes since I was out of school but realised that shouting on the outside does short term effect..
Bill Perdue
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
Q. Again, what did you think when he faced that hostile nutty religous (sic) black crowd and told them not to be homophobic? Answer 1. He was lying and playing both sides of the aisle. What makes you think they’re particularly nutty other than the fact that they’re religious?
Q It was a game? For who smart ass?? What was HE gaining by doing that?? See Answer 1.
Q Damn, it’s like you wheel me in to argue with you when I know you are irrational and debate without logid (sic) or hard evidence. Are you insane?? Answer 2. Sober up, little fella. Take a couple of pills or shots and calm down. This is about politics, not your right to act out.
Q What would it do for Obama to say he is pro gay marriage, when 56% of Americans (allegedly) are not and your frigging country was founded by fundementalist (sic) religous (sic) nuts who escaped Europe because their ideals were too extreme?? Answer 3. He used to be for same sex marriage but changed when he saw the way to get elected was to pander to bigots. He hasn’t looked back. He’s a friend of bigots and our enemy. Is that why you admire him? I’ll bet it is.
Those same nuts were changed by exposure to the traditions of real Americans, native Americans, into people who valued self rule. They kicked your asses out. And helped end your Empire which by now is motley assortment of tiny islands, occupied northern Ireland (that’ll be freed too) and Spanish Gibraltar. Obviously they weren’t so nutty after all.
Do you not get that life and the world is about power?? Have you never in all your living life heard of working the system to make it right? Those are the beliefs and tactics of sellouts, burnouts and losers. But they won’t do for the GLBT communities here, in England or anywhere. We need fundamental social changes and a reordering of the political system to simply survive.
Whatever. People like you and the above posters are the kind of people that would say I’m the root of all evil because I’m doing an MBA and working for a corporate company-to actually get power and make change-despite the fact that I’ve been giving money, working with socialist causes since I was out of school but realised that shouting on the outside does short term effect See Answer 2. Plus the truth is that we don’t give a rat’s ass about you. Deal with it. And remember, petulance is vastly overrated as a way to make political arguments.
blake
@Steven:
Blaming Obama for the cluster-frak that was Prop 8 is ridiculous. The anti-Prop 8 campaign was mismanaged. No effort was made by the No on 8 leaders to work with the Obama campaign. Those are facts. The campaign also failed repeatedly to reach out to people of color. The Yes on 8 people advertised in Chinese language newspapers for months.
The No on 8 campaign’s failures are well documented.
Obama came out against No on 8.
And, nice of you to forget the juggernaut of the Yes on 8 faction and the millions they poured into a massive TV campaign.
Also, why do people continue to sweep under the rug the fact that 50% of eligible gay voters refused to vote in the election? Do you think if California’s Asian, Latino, Native American, or African-American communities were going to lose their right to marry that 50% of their numbers would have sat on the couch and expected someone else to vote for them? Hell no!
blake
@Bill Perdue:
“Those same nuts were changed by exposure to the traditions of real Americans, native Americans, into people who valued self rule.”
You’re doing a tremendous disservice to history and, in particular, Native Americans. Seriously, shame on you. The Pilgrims already new the benefit of self-rule, that’s why they fled religious persecution.
As for the American Revolutionaries, in what history book did you read that they found strength from the native peoples they had oppressed before and after the Revolutionary War?
Brian Miller
@rrgg:
BrianZ has it right. Obama is just like all the rest, telling people what they want to hear to get elected. He’s already changed his position on several issues in the past 12 months and hasn’t even started yet (and I’m not talking economic policy and programs).
LIES!
LIES!
LIES!
No one saw Obama coming, and Christians believe God comes at us from strange angles and places we don’t expect, like Jesus being born in a manger.
Many even see in Obama a messiah-like figure, a great soul, and some affectionately call him Mahatma Obama.
Barack Obama is A Lightworker — An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being!
What he has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history.
Does it not feel as if some special hand is guiding Obama on his journey, I mean, as he has said, the utter improbability of it all?
He communicates God-like energy.
He’s not just an ordinary human being but indeed an Advanced Soul.
He is not operating on the same plane as ordinary politicians. . . . the agent of transformation in an age of revolution, as a figure uniquely qualified to open the door to the 21st century.
(and before you hop all over me, all the above are actual quotes from his prominent supporters in the media and politics — you can read more here: http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/ )
It amazes me that people fell for his bullshit. Hillary Clinton had him pegged a year ago, and was excoriated for it. Now all the lefties who ran her out of the field as a “dried up old harpy” are wailing and crying that Obama is exactly as she described him.
Brian Miller
@blake:
No effort was made by the No on 8 leaders to work with the Obama campaign.
As someone who was involved with the No on 8 campaign and provided advice and support from across the country, I can say that is a flat-out lie.
Obama was contacted repeatedly after the Yes On 8 campaign started using automated voice dialing systems playing Obama’s “I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman” message and stating that Obama supports Prop 8.
The No On 8 campaign asked Obama to record an anti-Prop-8 TV commercial. His campaign refused.
Then they asked for a voice-ad for radio and automated phone calls. Obama refused.
In fact, Obama only provided a letter to them, not even signed, where he stated he sorta kinda didn’t support Prop 8.
During his campaign stops in California, Obama was invited to speak at numerous No On 8 events. He refused every single speaking opportunity — often, choosing instead to give a speech at a homophobic church gathering.
Stop covering for your Empty Suit, please. The lies are easily disproven.
Brian Miller
To add to Obama’s inaction on Prop 8, despite persistent efforts by the top Democrats in the No On 8 campaign to engage him, most of Obama’s defenders who are now claiming no effort was made to engage Obama have changed their tune.
Back in October, they were stating that Obama couldn’t get involved because if he came out against Prop 8, he’d risk losing the election.
It’s amazing, the depths of lying hypocrisy that bunch is willing to go towards. During the No On 8 campaign, they avoided persistent and dogged attempts to engage them, brushing us off with a “sorry faggots, but supporting you is a path to losing.”
After Prop 8 passed, they’re trying to revise history by claiming that they’d have happily supported a No On 8 campaign, but the campaign never reached out to them.
I, for one, refuse to allow these mendacious power-hungry jackasses to revise history to suit their own purposes.
Brian Miller
we need to wait and see what happens in the year to come. This jumping to conclusions act is getting old fast.
We’re not jumping to conclusions, we’re judging his actions.
He refused to support the No On 8 campaign. He flip-flopped on marriage equality. He has as as many openly gay cabinet members as George W. Bush did, and fewer than Bill Clinton had over 10 years ago.
And he’s inviting California’s most notorious bigot to emcee his inauguration.
Hate to insert a little logic into Hopey-Changey heads, but no “jumping to conclusions” is needed — all the facts are in the open, and they stink of political cowardice and mendacity.
Mad Professah
@blake: Huh?
Where is your cite for this 50% turnout figure?
According to the California Secretary of State, turnout was 75% (statement of the vote, December 2008)
I agree with Michael W‘s comments.
Brian Miller please name the openly LGBT member of Clinton’s cabinet.
*crickets*
Thank you. Obama appointed the highest ranking gay official EVER, yesterday, to head OPM, the boss of eevery federal civil service employee in the country. (HRC BackStory)
To compare Obama who opposes a federal marriage amendment, supports almost every federal piece of LGBT legislation to George W. Bush by saying they have the same number of openly LGBT cabinet people is obfuscatory at best and offensive at worst.
And, people, CHILL THE **** OUT! He’s not even President, yet!
The Gay Numbers
@Mad Professah:
We have two absurdist extremes here. One arguing Obama is Bush, Part 2, or worse. The other arguing Obama walks on water or that we should trust him. The truth is that neither position has any relationship to reality. Obama is not Bush or worse. He is also not a close friend. He’s a politician. If we do not hold him accountable, then he has no incentive to be accountable. That’s our system of government.
getreal
@Bill Perdue:
Wow that is a lot of bigotry you are spouting. Well as a Catholic it is hurtful to read people call my faith a cult (although you have a 1st amendment right to write whatever you want) or to characterize all Christians as right wing,delusional,or small minded. For the record I am against civil unions and in favor of gay marriage always have been. I do not believe in special rights for some (straight) Americans.As a christian I believe we all gay or straight were created in God’s image and it is a HUMAN RIGHT to sanctify our love. It is time for people to let go of a lot of this anger and to stop attacking our ALLIES if they try to be inclusive or make missteps.This man has not even been sworn in give him a chance to do some good. Why not channel all that anger into doing some good it will make you more generous with others.
Signed a(non-nutty)proud christian,(non-racist)proud black American,(pro-gay equality)proud straight democrat woman.
getreal
@Bill Perdue: Oh yeah and here is a link of THE REVEREND AL SHARPTON Preaching against Prop 8 and the churches that supported it at a Baptist Church. There are enough real enemies of equality stop assuming that because someone is different from you (christian) they are your enemy.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/01/churches-should.html?cid=145083800#comments
seitan-on-a-stick
Say it aint so, “O”
GayMarriageGate, here we come!
It’s like DADT in the first 100 days of Bubba all over again! Will the Dumb-dumb-Dems ever learn?
A.S.
Unnecessary comment…Gay people sometimes are WAY TOO OPINIONATED! 🙂 thats all.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Bill Perdue:
Answer my question about Obama speaking to black homophobic folk and I promise, I will take it that your opinion is not biased.
I swear.
getreal
We have to speak to ALL people and appeal to their humantity to make homophobia a thing of the past. If we don’t speak to homophobic people how can we ever reach them? Hating them back is not a solution. And I don’t need your validation I KNOW I’m not biased. I would ask that you look at people who are homophobic as people who are sick that we can heal with kindness and patience.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@getreal:
Er yes…
Which is why Obama is doing what he is doing.
Did Bill say you were sick??
Anyway, this is an old book and all that BUT I’m reading Naomi Kliens’s The Shock Doctrine and it really puts everything in perspective about society and our patterns…
@seitan-on-a-stick:
Again what is YOUR solution?
Jesus, we must have other people on this site who actually work in politics or work on making changes…
All these opinions are so ‘knee jerk’…
Solutions! What are they? What have you done?
And I can at least promise I will join your gang!
getreal
No Bill did not say I was sick. I suggested that instead of reacting angrily to ignorant people treated them with kindness as someone would a sick person is a better solution that is more likely to build bridges. My solution is working on this issue as an activist and REACHING OUT in a kind way to people who feel differently about equality and calmly respectfully interfacing with them. I just wish people would channel this anger in a positive way anger won’t change any minds. All the catty comments against Christians are counterproductive as well because a lot of us feel our faith complels us to join the fight for gay equality.
Bill Perdue
@blake:
First Blake, you need to learn to read. When I said the colonists learned from native Americans I was bragging about it but I did not, consciously so, say that the colonists repaid the kindnesses we showered on them. We taught then the elements of cleanliness (Europeans at the time bathed only when caught in rainstorms, and even that terrified them), federalist democracy, military tactics, how to survive, what to eat, how to avoid getting eaten by bears and all the rest.
What they taught us can be summed up in two words. Blanket is one. Smallpox is the other.
The colonists did not create democracies; they copied the basics from Native Americans. They were neither the superstitious nut cases of Brits embittered by the loss of Empire (*) or the pious democratic farmers of Euroamerican legend. It’s likely that most were carted to North America as indentured slaves on English plantations. That was certainly true of the Irish, the Scots and Quakers. As in Australian history, English prisons were emptied to provide workers in North America.
A proof of the importance of Native American cultural transference and superiority to European settler communities is the fact that a rite of puberty in the colonies was for young men to take off and live in native communities. That was so common and debilitating that it was punishable by death.
Read 1491 by CC Mann before you put your foot in your mouth and then shoot yourself in the foot again.
(*) I think we have to pity the Brits. The glory of Yorktown was followed in due course by the loss of Empire and now their government is a lap dog of DC, which follows orders and sends English wherever and whenever Bush or Obama wants them to make US oil companies richer. Now who’s the colony?
Bill Perdue
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
My opinion is biased – against bigots like Obama, fools like you and for GLBT equality. And I did answer you question. See answers 1 and 3 in comment above. Don’t blame me if you’re too blocked to figure out their meaning.
Bill Perdue
@getreal: I’m glad that you and a few hundred other superstitious people are for GLBT rights. Most superstitious people are not and in any case opinions based on superstition are not subject to rationality. Opposition to superstition, ignorance and the madness of the Dark ages is not bigotry. It’s democratic, scientific and humanist. Don’t shove you cultism in our faces. It’s the chosen lifestyle for the who believe that “The Exorcist, is a documentary and that a good Nazi can be a good Pope.
I’ve been a fan of Sharptons for a long time and in the back of my mind I was wondering what’d he’d have to say. Link here for an interview sent me by friend: http://www.southernvoice.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=23441
Sharpton could become a powerful leader. He’s recovered from most of his earlier missteps and now all that’s left is for him to break definitively from the Democrats. I first began to like him when he said that he didn’t care whose bed you got out of in the morning as long as you had a good job to go to.
But he’s only an individual. The folks at Black Agenda Report http://www.blackagendareport.com/ and in the AFL-CIO’s Coalition of Black Trade Unionists http://www.cbtu.org/ are also promising in terms of developing a Black independent political challenge to the Democrats. The BAR folks have a long history of debunking Democrat lies about Obama the Savior.
Opposition to superstition, ignorance and the madness of the Dark ages is not bigotry. It’s democratic, scientific and humanist. Don’t shove you cultism in our faces. It’s ugly stuff and if you choose to live that kind of irrational lifestyle and believe that The Exorcist, is a documentary and that a good Nazi can be a good Pope, most of us would rather not know the details.
Greg
I think this is great, Obama is outsmarting irrational people.
getreal
@Bill Perdue:
You sound like a pretty angry guy I’m sorry life has been difficult for you. You have a right to think whatever you want about religion and christians but make no mistake MILLIONS of christian americans support equality for gays and lesbians. The loud angry christians are not represenative of the whole. Just like your angry rantings are not represenative of gays and lesbians as a whole. I think it is ironic that you are ranting against my chosen lifestyle and that you don’t want it shoved in your face. Does that sound farmiliar to anyone? Your post makes the point better than any example I can give. There are bigoted, angry people on both sides of this issue the important thing for those of us who are serious about change is to concentrate on positive forward action.As for you Bill I would suggest volunteering if you were actively part of the solution maybe you would not feel so angry and disenfranchised.
getreal
It’s the chosen lifestyle for the who believe that “The Exorcist, is a documentary and that a good Nazi can be a good Pope.
And if you really think Christians think the Exorcist is a documentary and that a good Nazi can be a good Pope maybe you should consider cracking open a book every now and again. Or clutch the pearls actually listening to someone elses’s point of view instead of concocting outrageous points of view and attributing them to others. As far sscientific like a lot of Christians I believe in evolution and modern science you are kind of funny it seems like your concept of Christians is FROM the dark ages there have been some new developments since then perhaps you should update your source material. But like my favorite humanist in history Jesus I still think you are made exactly the way you are supposed to be. So try a scientific approach yourself anger and finger point goes nowhere EVOLVE.
Julian
One thing is for sure, the gay community is better off with Obama as president than Mccain. – at least he has some notion of the fact that we should all be treated equally.
Bill Perdue
@getreal: Your imitation of Sally Jesse Raphael is unconvincing and your psycho babble is irrevelant.
My life has always been highly satisfactoy to me because I’ve been in the movement for decades. I very consciiously said I (and many others) don’t want your chosen lifestyle shoved in our faces. I was a parody (except that it’s true in the case of cultists) of your cult babble and I’m not surprised you couldn’t figure that out. No doubt you were distracted counting angels on pin heads. I’m not particularly angry at anyone except those who enable and participate in bigot cults, such as yourself, mormons and southern baptists.
And of course I’m angry at polticians who embrace bigotry to get elected like Obama and Bush. Did you actually read Hauslaib’s story. Did all that duplicity and treachery by Obama just not sink in. If you really supported the LGBT movement you’d be angry too. But you aren’t and you don’t.
It’s rank stupdity to accuse GLBT folks angry about your christer cults bigotry and your NAZI pope. It’s just an attempt to inject your delusional views into discussions among reality centered people.
I used to enjoy science fiction but not really badly plotted ancient kind you embrace.
Alexa
All I can say is, thank (insert deity of choice) this didn’t come to light during the election, or we’d probably be looking at Vice President Palin right now.
seitan-on-a-stick
……..or President Palin in 2012!
O’Bummer, shoulda picked Hillary! I love the way that the B.O.-lovers don’t allow any dissent. Must agree or we’ll have a tantrum until dissenters are removed from Queerty! Now get on that train to Dachau, fellow queers and give back those rings if you’re from California so we can melt them into Euros! I do think that President Jesus of Audacity will be the BEST Republican PRESIDENT we never had (It’s not like Gays here want equal rights….)
Hillary Clinton/ Michelle Obama 2016!
getreal
@Bill Perdue:
As I said before I’m sorry life has been difficult for you and I hope you channel all that anger and animosity in a positive direction. There are programs all over the country training people in activism, volunteerism, and tolerance of others.Bill I would suggest volunteering if you were actively part of the solution maybe you would not feel so angry and disenfranchised. As someone who says he has been in the movement for years if you seek tolerance and equality it should start within yourself if you were happier you would be more tolerant of others differences. This is an exciting time in history for GLBT if your worldview were not so dark maybe you could get involved and enjoy it. Hope this helps!
Bill Perdue
@getreal: As i said before you do a very poor imitation of SJ Raphael, but as a catholic cultist you credentials are excellent – backwardness, in our faces sectarianism and supersition.
Seek help before you start seeing the madonna in stains.
Alfredo Munoz
An all to familiar and easy indictment as we hasten to fulfill the Orwellian prophecy i.e. “you are racist”,”you are an
anti-semite” “you are a heterophobe””you are a homophobe” etc.It won’t be long before the re-education camps are implemented.Whatever happened to the First Amendment?Oh wait I see how it works now.
BTW Who was the lame ass that quoted Bishop Tu Tu? How cloyingly trite was that pompous gasp.
Mike K
The reason so many gays didn’t vote for Obama is probably all the anti-gay preachers, ex-gays he had surrounding him at rally’s. Could be the fact that he has a history of ignoring constituents once elected. Ask anyone in public housing in his former senate district who lived through winters without heat or water after Obama gave all the public housing money to his real estate fairy Tony Rezko, then spent the next 5 years ignoring their cries for help.
Dawster
my god, this is such old news. i remember writing an article about this over a year ago. it was one of the things that irritated me a bit, but i had to ask the question, why was i bothered? i’ve thought long and hard about it over the past year. such is politics. love it, hate it, but shut up about how it’s unfair and inconsistent. IT’S POLITICS!
in any case, there is a missing link that this mediocre report left out. Obama went from accepting gay marriage universally. THEN he changed to having it a state’s right to determine whether gay marriage is accepted or not. THEN he changed to the civil union idea.
the end result is very annoying to me because i don’t want my civil rights dictated by religion or the “technicalities” surrounding the word “marriage”. all it whatever you want – i want the CIVIL aspect to be equal to my straight counterparts. the Netherlands went from registered unions to civil marriage in a matter of a few years. so the stair-step process can and has worked very well and very quickly.
i don’t know where this “expose” is going, and frankly i don’t care. bringing up old arguments going nowhere is the play of the weak minded drama queen and not something that is looking towards forward progress for us today, and those of the LGBT community that come behind us.
Anne Beck
Yep, not at ALL surprising. Wrong? yes, but Obama is wrong for the country anyway.
Oh well, I suppose people will figure it out and I won’t HAVE to say, “I did tell you so”.
And, so it goes…
Stephen
Bill Clinton talked a big talk too, Remember how little he did.
Stephen
As a matter of fact, Since Obama is picking up most of slick willie’s old crew, I don’t expect much any time soon.
Mike
Pulease, fellow queens.
There is no way he would have been elected, if he had come out and said he supported gay marriage. He did publically say that he did not support Prop 8 and did not agree with changing the constitution. Trust me, now that he is president, he’ll flip-flop (as you put it) again. Don’t any of you understand politics? NO ONE is going to say they support gay marriage, in an election year.
sparkle obama
b*tches are living in a fantasy world!
hillary lost;the inauguration is tomorrow.
Bill Perdue
@sparkle obama: sparkle obama is a misogynist piglet. Hillary Clinton didn’t lose. After running a clearly racist campaign against Obama she shoved her way into State where she’ll hide until 2011.
Obama and Hillary won. The politics of Bush – war, pandering to bigots and giving heaping gobs of money to the rich – won.
Working people, African Americans, GLBT folks, immigrants, Latinos and etc. are the people who lost.
rainfish2000
Just try to re-read this article (the past is prologue, you know) and then ask yourself: What candidate in History ever started out strongly in favor of full civil rights for an oppressed minority, and then started evolving away from equality. Oh, I’m sure there were a few in the Old South who promised Black folks the sun and the moon in the 1950s in return for their votes (when and if they were allowed to vote, that is)– but in the 21st Century? And yet, so many in the GLBT community think that Obama is our true civil rights champion, when he has done nothing but transform into our reigning king of hypocrisy and mendacity!
So many homophobes are tickled pink that he has “devolved” on the issue of equal rights. Aren’t you happy? How valiantly he supported, no less, same-sex marriage (gasp!)when he was just a lowly local Chicago politician who needed the gay-ghetto vote. But how courageously he has grown over the years, while pursuing higher office, by adopting his now regressive “national” stance. Very admirable indeed. Now THAT’S a profile in courage you can believe in. Yep…
All of this begs the question though: Why didn’t any of the fawning cabbage heads, during his appearance on that GLBT LOGO “discussion” with the candidates, ever bring this up? Why didn’t they force him to confront his own vile hypocrisy? What a missed opportunity to expose this fraud for what he was, and still is. The fact is, Obama is no different than the “carpetbaggers” who exploited African Americans in the deep South sixty years ago — except we, in the GLBT community, are the last minority on the block now to kick in the teeth.
Way to go, Obama! Yeah, score one for the heterosexual team! Smear the queers — but do it in a “compassionate” way. We may need their votes later. You know how stupid they are — keep them scared of the Republican boogie-man and they’ll come running back to you like a battered housewife. You can count on it every time.
But, you know, right now, I’m seeing in the near future a flood of “No-bama in 2012” car bumper stickers getting warmed up on the presses. So, please don’t play “good cop/bad cop”…Democrats (good) versus Republicans (bad) scam on us any more — it’s not going to work any more.
Vote Third Party or Independent! A plague on both their houses.