“A measured way.” That’s the latest advice given to President Obama about moving on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, and it comes from a very big mouth: Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, aka Obama’s most senior military adviser. But this isn’t just a top military official telling the president to tread lightly in controversial territory. Mullen’s comments “hint” that repealing DADT isn’t about equality, but about how it would negatively impact soldiers and their families. Family values and the military? Bring it.
Here’s what Mullen told CNN in part: “It’s very clear what President Obama’s intent here is. He intends to see this law change. … I’ve had conversations with him about that. What I’ve discussed in terms of the future is I think we need to move in a measured way. … I haven’t done any kind of extensive review. And what I feel most obligated about is to make sure I tell the president, you know, my — give the president my best advice, should this law change, on the impact on our people and their families at these very challenging times.”
It’s perfectly reasonable Mullen has military families on his mind. After all, the U.S. is in the middle of two wars, with hundreds of thousands of troops serving in harm’s way. Losing just one soldier hurts military families. American families.
But his assertion here, uttered ever so slightly, is that letting gay soldiers serve openly would somehow impact military families negatively. This is, quite frankly, horseshit, of the same variety that soldiers’ religious faith are material to whether DADT should be repealed. It’s seriously mind-numbing to hear military leaders act concerned about how families back home will feel if their sons and husbands serve next to gay comrades, but send soldiers into the field without the proper armor — which goes a long way toward making sure families at home will be hurt.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Also? Mullen’s mention of “families,” evidently, does not include the families of gay soldiers. What about they way they are impacted?
As we’ve heard endlessly from folks like Air Force Lt. Colonel Victor Fehrenbach and the National Guard’s First Lt. Dan Choi, opening the ranks to out soldiers can only strengthen our national security, which keeps our soldiers safer, and thus helps American families. This is not a question of conservative vs. liberal beliefs; it is a question of equality and safety.
It’s unfortunate, too, that as the president continues guaranteeing Americans he will repeal DADT, he’s letting his senior military advisers — like Mullen and Defense Secretary Robert Gates — run their mouths in very harmful ways.
In Mullen’s case, the harm begins with the man’s own admission that he hasn’t “done any kind of extensive review” on repealing DADT. What we’re not hearing, then, is Obama’s military leaders echoing the president’s commitment to the gay men and women keeping America safe.
Dennis
“It’s very clear what President Obama’s intent is here. He intends to see this law change. I’ve had conversations with him about that.”
Thank you for including this in this post, and not just the(expected) Obama bashing headline…gotta appeal to Queerty’s base demographic, I guess…
So, briefly, before all the screeching and accusations on this thread begin…stop for a minute and read this post. Evangelical and homphobic forces run rampant, deep, and powerful at ALL levels of the military power structure. (Uh, Navy sailor murdered recently, ring a bell anyone?)
In REALITY, to change this policy, we need to begin to CALL OUT and demonize the true bigots and homophobes in the military, as well as pressure the House and Senate to get their shit together and draft LEGISLATION, not a temporary Executive Order that will brand Obama as the “faggot-lover” and which I guarantee you, will get REPEALED during the next Republican administration.
These fucks need to be beaten down with a LAW, again, a law, from Congress and signed by the President. A law to stand up to their Jeebus-lovin’, gay hating irrational fuckery. These assholes will not back down, and will look for any and every loophole to continue their own war on gays.
Screech all you want, but we need Congress, and the President, and a fucking NO LOOPHOLES LAW ending DADT to ensure our equal right to serve. Anything else is just postponing the problem, or putting a band-aid on a gaping, bleeding wound.
Bill Perdue
We should continue to work for the repeal of Bill Clinton’s bigoted DADT because it leads to unfair treatment, harassment and occasionally the kind of ultimate violence we saw last week with the murder of August Provost.
At the same time we should actively discourage enlistment in the US military, currently being used to carry out genocidal wars to secure oil and gas hegemony for American corporations.
(I wonder if these remarks will make it past the Queerty Censorship Office.)
[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jTtmGlVCSGo/RqYitU8Zq0I/AAAAAAAAAJA/9t7rtix6AXU/s320/gis-nowar.jpg[/img]
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm
The assholes don’t just exist in the Jurassic Park of the Pentagon.
That two-bit neo socialist Perdue keeps referring to DADT as “Clinton’s” when he knows damn well that it’s not is the kind of ruthless demagoguery usually exhibited by Rovians or Fred Phelps and his inbred klan.
Make no mistake, Perdue doesn’t give a flying fuck about the harm of the gay ban in the military that goes all the way back to WWII or DOMA or ENDA or anything else gay per se. I doubt if he is gay. Ideologues don’t have a sexual orientation…politics is their porn. Workers unite and overthrow your masters! Jerk Jerk ahuh ahuh ahuh oooooooooooooh it feels sooooo good.
His REAL AGENDA is creating class hatred of the major parties by any means necessary…historical distortion, outright lies, exploiting the death of the sailor in San Diego, exploiting the death of nongay but perceived as gay Barry Winchell ad bloody infinitum.
A parasite with a keyboard and an Internet connection…..
Bill Perdue
Hell hath no fury like a Clinton toadie scorned by history.
The fact is that Clinton signed and enforded one of two most bigoted laws in US history, DADT. The other was DOMA.
Clinton is a bigot and Mikie is a bigot enabler, aka, a Democrat.
Wayne
Obama has the power to stop all gay soldiers from being discharched from service because they are gay with the stroke of a pen. (anyone telling he doesn’t have that powere is either a fool or a kool-aide drinker) Obama simply refuses to stop military leaders from discharging gay soldiers.
COWARD. HYPOCRITE. LIAR.
InExile
@Bill Perdue: Please do not bash the Clintons. If we had Hillary as President, Queerty wouldn’t have all this material to write about what is not being about done by the Obama administration. This President is weak and a snake oil salesman and that is it. Maybe some of you believe him, I do not and never have. What I see thus far is exactly what I thought we would see 2 years ago, too bad I was not wrong.
Robert, NYC
Michael, and what’s so great about the right wing neo-fascism that we had for the past 8 years, a party that believes in pre-emptive intervention in any part of the world to advance its agenda and its unquenching thirst for cheap oil?
Bill is absolutely right, it WAS Clinton who signed off on DADT, not Bush 43. With people like Mullen calling the shots…..we’ll get NO fast repeal because the higher military echelons are infested with christo fascist right wingers and they have Obama’s ear first and foremost. We have and always will be the scapegoats for everything that is wrong in society and its prefectly legal. Mullen’s statement is a classic example of neocon hatred and oppression.
GJR
@InExile:
Such horseshit. I don’t disagree with you about Obama’s inaction but this “great Hillary as savior” thing is a crock too. She had no problem with her husband’s policies. She hardly ever mentioned the word “gay”, she even cancelled an interview with Americablog because he said he’d ask her about DOMA. She danced and danced around the issue. Even Bubba still dances around the gay marriage issue, “I’m evolving on that question…” Translation: If my wife runs in 2016 and the wind is blowing the right way, I’ll be for it. There is nothing stopping Bill from standing up right now calling for the repeal of DADT and DOMA, even if Hillary must be somewhat restrained as an Obama cabinet member.
jason
Mullen is a misguided bigot. He seems to think that we gays are interlopers and outsiders. Well, I’ve got news for him. We’ve been defending this country for years. If you don’t like it Mr Mullen then maybe it’s you who should leave the military.
Mullen by name, bigot by nature.
InExile
@GJR: As you know both had similar policies regarding LGBT rights, Obama adopted Hillary’s plan to get our votes. From the very early portion of the campaign it was clear he was avoiding LGBT issues and continued to do so until the convention.
It comes down to strength, Obama tries to be all things to all people including pandering to the religious right. Hillary on the other hand would not be pandering to the religious right and has far more inner strength than Obama. Obama seems to shift positions and cave in too much because he come from a place of weakness. We need the democrats to stand up for us but the leaders are all weak such as Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for instance.
As far as Bill Clinton goes, there must have been an agreement for him to stay out of the issues in light of Hillary’s position in the administration.
Cam
No, actually I can think of two major things hurting military families.
1. Having their spouses overseas get blown up because the army is discharging gay arab linguists who could have decifered intelligence reports in time to prevent the deaths.
2. Keeping the families separated for years at a time because the military is discharging gay service members involved in fighting and in translations. Perhaps if they had better intelligence and hadn’t dismissed around 1,300 soldiers the wars would be closer to being over.
This guy can’t pretend that he cares about military families at all. If he did he would be trying to do something about familes that have to go on food stamps while the military member is overseas.
Dennis
@InExile:
No, Obama isn’t going to “fall on a sword” for us by issuing an Executive Order (which wouldn’t solve the problem permanently anyway)…true, and dissapointing. If you think Hillary would, wake up, you are living in a fantasy world. Obama WILL sign and support legislation that has a more broad base of support. He’s said he wants DADT gone many times, he just won’t do it alone.
True, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are also a major part of the problem, each being pretty fucking useless. This is going to require work…broad based pressure against all the military homophobes and homophobes in Congress, more public anger and demonstrations, continued media attention, and soldiers speaking out, etc. We CAN get this done during this administration, and MUST get this done in case there’s no Obama ‘Part II’.
Bill Perdue
@InExile: I don’t know if it’s <i<possible to bash the Clintons. They’re pretty bad. A quick look at the historic record makes that pretty clear.
Especially about Hillary Clintons pandering. She tried hard to pander but Obama was much better. Read this “For 15 years, Hillary Clinton has been part of a secretive religious group that seeks to bring Jesus back to Capitol Hill.” by linking to
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics
Or this from AlterNet “NAFTA failures; deregulation of banking and ENRON’s rise; “Welfare Reform” that led to more poor people. This and more is what the Clintons gave us.” by linking to http://www.alternet.org/story/72336/%5Bimg%5D
http://www.motherjones.com/files/resized/files/legacy/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-251×300.300wide.359high.jpg%5B/img%5D
InExile
@Dennis: I agree with you, he will NOT issue any executive orders on our behalf but he could use the “bully pulpit” of his office to push congress into action. Will he push congress to act? I seriously doubt it, he seems too weak. I guess we are on our own in that regard! His lack of action (pushing congress) is exactly what I expected from him.
InExile
@Bill Perdue: My first choice was Dennis Kucinich, my second was Hillary. I am not claiming she is perfect, just less bad than what we ended up with. As far as reading all the tales about the Clintons, I’ll take a pass, I’ve heard it all before.
Bill Perdue
@Robert, NYC: Thanks Robert. A lot of people project their own views on politicians looking for a “savior”. There aren’t any, at least in the Democratic and Republican parties.
Their version of politics is debating about whose the real savior. But things are changing rapidly and the days when this or that ‘savior’ can make and break promises at will are coming to an end.
The US economy is careening from a deep recession to depression. The looter class was unleashed by Clintons deregulation, began looting in earnest under Bush’s sympathetic eye and was rewarded by Obama with trillions to make good their self-inflicted financial wounds.
As soon as Clinton signed the deregulation bill in 1999 the Wall Street Journal said
What we acquired is looking a lot like a depression.
Unemployment is growing at about 500,000 to 750,000 per month and now stands at 9.5%. A measure of how close the Clinton-Bush recession is to becoming a depression is the ‘real’ rate, measured by the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ “Alternative measures of labor underutilization”, at 16.5%. That figure is still undercounted because it doesn’t include immigrant and imported workers. By way of comparison in 1931, well into the Great Depression the GNP was falling steadily (down 8.5%) and unemployment rising to 15.9%.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm
The crisis is enveloping states, seven of which can’t pass budgets because of record deficits; California (budget deficit—$24 billion), Illinois ($9.2 billion), Pennsylvania ($4.8 billion), North Carolina ($4.6 billion), Connecticut ($4.1 billion), Ohio ($3.3 billion) and Mississippi ($480 million). Another half a dozen or so will be in the same boat soon.
Welfare and social services aren’t increasing and even being slashed as the crisis deepens.
A new depression combined with a bevy of unwinnable wars will be the political graveyard of the twin Democratic (sic) and Republican Parties.
Obama and Hillary sat on a wall. Etc.
Robert, NYC
Bill, you’re most welcome. This economy is far worse than people think it is. Biden only today admitted that. We’re in a depression, the writing is on the wall, a 9.5% rising unemployment rate and rising is proof of that.
Lets not forget that Phil Gramm, a diehard right winger was responsible for the destruction of the Glass-Steagall act aided and abetted by Clinton which led to the total annihilation of regulation of the financial services industry and we have already seen the results of that in the demise of Enron, AIG, others and union busting. Credit card companies are now hiking their interest rates to beat the deadline for the new regulations taking effect later this year, something that should have taken effect immediately the bill was signed. Its business as usual for the corporate raiders and thieves. Nothing has changed and the stimulus package will achieve nothing.
There is NO savior and it won’t be centrist Obama.
Joe Mustich, Justice of the Peace
Re: Obama, DOMA, DADT, “war” funding, national health, bail-outs for banksters, Israel-Palestine, etc.
Is this the change some folks were hoping for?
Looks more like Bush in blackface… (no surprise here)
Joe Mustich, Justice of the Peace,
Washington, Connecticut
And in the meantime, I’m busy officiating for couples who continue to come to CT to wed from around the country.
Kudos to (civil) marriage.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm
LOOK: Perdue is back out of the closet: “A lot of people project their own views on politicians looking for a ‘savior’. There aren’t any, AT LEAST IN THE DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN PARTIES.”
Get that kids, the crusty old socialists…and their apparatchilks at Mother Lenin er Jones magazine … will set you free.
As for Bill’s signing DADT and DOMA:
DADT passed in the Senate 92-7 after being introduced by Clinton-hater Sam Nunn, and in the House, introduced by Ike Skelton, 301 to 134…even tho Dems controlled both houses.
DOMA passed the House where it was introduced by Clinton Hater Bob Barr, 342 – 67, and the Senate 85 – 14. Repugs controlled both houses.
Could Clinton have made symbolic, functionally meaningless gestures and issued an executive order on gays in the military and/or vetoed both bills and been immediately overridden? Yes.
But ruthless Perdue would STILL attempt to brainwash you by referring to them as “Clinton’s DADT/DOMA” because it serves his agent provocateur tactics to smear the Dems better than the truth does.
The REAL lesson is that people were fools to believe that Obama was any more a Messiah for the Gays than Clinton or not to see now that he’s allowing himself to be manipulated by the Pentagon dinosaurs just as Clinton did.
Bill Perdue
Clinton signed and implemented the second most homohating law in US history, DADT, the codiification of military bigotry. Most Democrats and Republicans voted for it.
Clinton championed, signed and booasted about signing the most homohating law in US history to pander for bigot votes.
He signed it the night it passed and immediately issued this campaign pitch:
Those are the facts mikey, and all the frothing in the world won’t erase them from the history books. You lose. Again.
SM
@InExile:
You are such a BABY. You are such a VICTIM all the time. Mike Mullen admits Obama wants DADT to end but you still scream and blame Obama for a law is IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR. Obama is not a DICTATOR.
Lincoln did not run for President wanting to free the slaves….because he knew he would have LOST! He sure as hell freed them when he could though. Obama has a PROVEN record on LGBT equality issues.
GO AFTER THE REAL BIGOTS because you all really look like DUMB IDIOTS who cannot help out your own cause.
If Mullen says straight families are hurt…find STRAIGHT SOLDIERS to speak out against DADT.
InExile
@Bill Perdue: Prior to DADT gays were completely banned from military service, so bash Clintons all you want! He could have left the ban in place but did not. As far as DOMA goes, it was better than the Constitutional Amendment banning any and all gay marriage which is what the republican congress and senate wanted. Therefore, if Bill did not do his best for the gays, there would be no marriage today in Iowa, Vermont, and so on.
InExile
@SM: Just more words, they all know what to say but show no intention of honoring those words.
Action is needed, not more words, we have heard enough!
Did you miss the part “… I haven’t done any kind of extensive review” mentioned above?
They are all just giving us talk with no intention of doing anything.
Maybe I should have voted for McCain, at least he had experience.
Bill Perdue
@InExile: DADT is bigotry made law. Before if was just policy and could have been overturned by some one with a spine.
But not our Bill.
No, he only got a spine when it came to slashing welfare and busting unions with NAFTA. And killing roughly half a million Iraqi children was something else he stood up to do no matter who called him a murderer. And he very courageously championed DOMA and deregulation.
You think he’s a savior? He is to the same degree that Obama is. The worst thing about Obama is that he’s a Clinton Clone.
You’re going to have to check the history books. The federal constitutional amendment form of DOMA didn’t arrive on the scene until years after bill boasted of signing DOMA to pander to righting wing religious bigots.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm
@SM:
OBAMA IS MULLEN’S BOSS…if he’s saying anything HIS BOSS doesn’t agree with HIS BOSS should at least publicly disagree with him if not fire him like Truman fired MacArthur. Ooops….wait…that’s the OTHER example of Obama’s undescended testicles.
Exactly WHAT is Obama’s “PROVEN record on LGBT equality issues”? Please itemize them…and, nota bene, we’re talking ACTIONS….PRETTY WORDS AND PROMISES don’t count.
But before you waste your time:
Illinois gay rights bill? True, he cosponsored two earlier bills that OTHERS introduced but he has repeatedly lied about being a “chief cosponsor” of the bill that finally passed … he was apparently too busy running for US Senate to even sign his name….AND taken credit for passing it when he wasn’t even still in the state senate when it was voted on.
Your ball [pun intended].
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm
Yes, everyone…check your history books…where you’ll find that homohaters were talking about a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage long before they introduced it…
AND you’ll learn how the communists exploited segregation not because they genuinely cared about blacks just like Billy Boy is trying to exploit homophobia. They even opposed black leader A. Philip Randolph’s planned march on Washington during WWII to force FDR to integrate defense industries because they saw that as hurting the Soviets.
InExile
@InExile: Yes, Please list his accomplishments on LGBT issues.
Bill Perdue
Mikey, you do a very good imitation of J.E.Hoover, except you froth too much.
Tony
All this guy is doing is articulating the hatred Obama “God is in the mix… advocates with his Rick Warren Donnie McClurkin lovin’ ways.
Big shock.
InExile
@Bill Perdue: Clinton clone? Clinton had experience when he was elected, this guy has no idea what he is doing!
InExile
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm: SM posted his list of Obama’s proven accomplishments on LGBT issues, but you need 3D glasses to see it! Do you have any?
SM
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm:
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa….
Grow up…OBAMA IS NOT A DICTATOR. Considering how LAZY LAZY LAZY the LGBT communtiy was when their civil rights were put up for popular vote last summer…you really have nothing to complain about because you all are MORE responsible for your losses than anyone else.
You all have the BEST CIVIL RIGHTS PRESIDENT IN HISTORY AND YOU PROVE ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE TOO WEAK TO HANDLE IT. Its driving Conservatives crazy that he sticks up for you and you still WHINE LIKE BABIES.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/3683219813/in/photostream/
Bill Perdue
@InExile: You don’t need a lot of experience to sell out your constituents. Just greed, sleaziness and a right centrist political perspective.
Clinton had them and so does Obama.
DADT and DOMA were sellouts.
NAFTA and deregulation were sellouts.
Draconian cuts in welfare were a sellout.
The murder, on his orders of about a million Iraqi children was a combination of infanticide and genocide. He lied, as Bush later did, and lied; saying said it was necessary because of Saddam’s WMD’s.
You can make your own list for Obama.
M Shane
@No. 7 · Robert, NYC Ditto. I can’t even Imagine that anyone would blame such sculdugery as DADT on anyone but Clinton: Who else would write a order telling people to lie.
Mullen isn’t pushing for war in Iran thankfully but this Family Values Crap is something that he should be keeping to himself.
THE FACT IS THAT THIS IS A SOCIAL ISSUE and not a military matter. The arguements which Mullen is using are Right Wing Religious offal.
@No. 17 · Robert, NYC : Economists have been saying that we are going into the worst and possibly as bad a Depression as we’ve had since the Great Depression.
I personally don’t believe that Obama is a do nothing president, as many purport. The problem, I FIRMLY BELIEVE, is that people in the U.S. have forgotten what kind of government we have and have placed expectations on the president which only a monarch should have.
We have a bought off right wing Congress, which would scare the daylights out of any even liberal president. If anyone had listened to Obama they should know that one of his greatest concerns is that we were a rats hair from being a dictatorship by the time Bush came along. He does not want to follow suit, but to have things work through the channels that are set up to in the Constitution. E.g. Change DADT by legislative action, not to initiate something he can’t finish with a foolish (in this case) executive order. Closing GiTMO is something he can do.
I still believe that Obama would like to Socialize things a lot more if he had his way; this country is the most extreme right wing nation in the world; we are vastly imperialistic and completely dominated by Corporations. This is a vast problem for a democracy, which is something we won’t have until some significant degree of socialism is introduced;
On top of everything, Obama probably feels beholden to the Black Church people.
I t is clearly foolish to tag Obama as a do nothing President when he has had his plate more than full and when he has to work with and for a bunch of right wing Democrates.
SM
Clearly Obama has done NOTHING to move the dividing WAR on social issues between LGBT Equality and the Religous Right in this country forward.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/3684019502/
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm
@SM:
Still waiting for that list of St. Obama’s Miracles for the Gays.
@M Shane:
“write a order telling people to lie”…Clinton did’t “write” DADT, you ‘tard. Are you calling your Lord & Savior Barack Christ a LIAR? HIS HOLINESS is the One who declared that all that was required to dump DADT was leadership and that HE would be that leader. But as long as you have your head up his ass, too…give SM a kiss for us.
@Bill Perdue:
PUH-LEEZE, Mary Marxist! What happenend to your one-man “Rainbow RED” cell? You don’t give a flying fuck about gay rights or NAFTA or murdered gay sailors in San Diego or murdered Iraqis or poor people anywhere….you’re a creepy zealot who’d boil his own mother in Socialist Party Pudding.
[img]http://rationalrevolution.net/images/t1917d.jpg[/img]
SM
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm:
Dude…why don’t you line up with all the racist Republicans who attack him. You all PLAY VICTIM and you are SO FUCKING STUPID TO SEE HE WALKS THAT WALK EVERY DAY and still never stoops to your level.
Go read the history of his life.
….and and go ask a SOCIALIST…they will tell you Obama is far from a Socialist. You are a first class IDIOT.
http://www.zimbio.com/Audra+Shay/articles/P19bbzPbGSz/Audra+Shay+Young+Republican+called+racist
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm
@SM:
Really, how many orderlies on the psych ward do you have to do to get Net priviliges.
I never called Obama a socialist, you freak. I was referring to Comrade Perdue.
Still waiting for that list of Obama’s gay miracles unless you’re familiar with the old expression “put up or shut up.”
TANK
sm’s like a dog blowing a dog whistle.
DuttyBarb
Girls, Girls, Girls… calm down.
DADT is indeed a stupid law..as i have continually said. I dont give a care in the world to who wants to put themslevse out there in the military. Hell, ill take a whole army of medically altered bears to serve if they are capable.
Everyone(except spies, racists and such) should be allowed in the military because they need all the manpower they can get and they should treated equally cos they deserve it for putting their lives at risk.
OBAMA REPEAL THAT LAW ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
InExile
@SM: Funny how Obots ALWAYS revert back to rasism when they cannot justify their position. I remember them also using sexism against Hillary, it was disgusting! If the facts are not there, then they are not there. I feel for you justifying someone that talks the talk but does not walk the walk but do you have to use racism? It really is uncalled for.
M Shane
@Bill I totally concur with you about Clinton. While he hides a a lone “democrate” amidst the Ugly Republicans , the things he did, have been devastating to the U.S. and the world. It is a matter of records that he is responsible for NAFTA, the worst thing to have happened to Americans economically iever possibly in law: What makes it worse is that he lied to American citizens and workers while he was holding secret meetings with Big Business.When the Bill was passed and signed by him 500,000 jobs left the U.S in the first week Virtually noting has been made here since.
DADT and DOMA are recorded history. The murder of 1million Iraqi children(under 10yrs old) is just one of his inhumain acts . Add negligence in Rwanda, bombing in the Sudan and Afganastan.
I’m still unsure where Obama is relative to this. He hasn’t had much time. But he has done some things that are admirable. As I’ve said elsewhere the Democrates in congress are without any legitimately progressive credentials, and yet Obama wants seriusly to restore the balance of power. That would mean that citizens would have to stop looking to the president to do things that he is not supposed to and for them to deal with their legislators; (if they know who they are). Americans overlook the fact that this country, having thrown away all it’s means of production
has become a military state in the sense that we do little more than maintain an imense standing army, (CONTRARY TO EVERY NOTED AMERICAN PRIOR TO AND INCLUDING EISENHOWER). We have a Military presence in 180 foreign bases. We have fought 30 major wars since WW2. Numerous smaller ones 200+. The amount that we spend on the military is not public. it is over 1/2 of our national expenditure yearly.
It seems to me that , while Obama does intend to do something about gay issues , everything is so messed up after Bush that he can hardly do everything in his first 180 days.
I don’t know what is in some of your brain spaces, but if Obama gets a Health Care Bill, and the Environmental bill we so sorely need, with the contentious Democratic party we have, That will be one miraculous accomplishment that will overshadow any marriage or military agenda you could possibly want. A marriage won’t help much if you’re sitting out on an island in the ocean alone. or together.
If you are thinking of marrige, I doubt that it is going to happen regardless Mostly because it is an assult on too many peoples beliefs. Obama would be nuts to start a religious war in America.
He did say he believed in Civil Unions; if everyone wasn’t so fixated on that bridal veil and on legal recognition and rights
they can have those I’m sure, but by congressional action.
I’d be happy if I could just not lose jobs because of my sexuality.
BrianZ
@M Shane: “Virtually noting [sic] has been made here since.”
Are you for real? LOL That’s one of the most hilarious things I’ve read all day.
InExile
@M Shane: Funny how Obama used NAFTA against Hillary in the primary but once elected pretended NAFTA did not exist!
Just what we need an environmental bill when LGBT citizens have no civil rights! NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN LGBT RIGHTS! NOTHING!
M Shane
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm :
You are certanly a silly queen. . . just blathering away. Have you ever read Marx or any modern Socialist literature. You reaaize that much of the Democratic world is Socialist to a degree.
Would you rather be in a virtual Dictatorship run by Big Corporations and the few wealthy. Well you know that unbridaled Capitalism is a dying form of life. The World Can’t afford Greed anymore, or peoplestupid enough to think that it will help much of anyone.
Cam
@SM: you said
“@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm:
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa….
Grow up…OBAMA IS NOT A DICTATOR. Considering how LAZY LAZY LAZY the LGBT communtiy was when their civil rights were put up for popular vote last summer…you really have nothing to complain about because you all are MORE responsible for your losses than anyone else.
You all have the BEST CIVIL RIGHTS PRESIDENT IN HISTORY AND YOU PROVE ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE TOO WEAK TO HANDLE IT. Its driving Conservatives crazy that he sticks up for you and you still WHINE LIKE BABIES.
_____________________________________________________________
He asked you several times “You said Obama has a proven histoy on GLBT rights, what is that history?”
Instead of answering him you come back yelling and name calling. I would be very interested to hear from you also just what Obama’s “Proven” history on GLBT rights is. If you instead just call me a bunch of names and “Forget” to answer, then I guess we’ll know you were just talking out your ass.
InExile
@M Shane: Would you rather be in a virtual Dictatorship run by Big Corporations and the few wealthy.
We already are and Obama is blending in perfectly!
Not quite the same as the platform he ran on huh?
We all should have voted for McCain.
InExile
@Cam: We have all asked for the list, it never arrives.
InExile
@InExile: There is no list.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm
@M Shane:
You REALLY should look into free classes in “reading for comprehension.” I never said socialism per se was bad, I said the loons who’ve been lobotomized by ideology are that exploit others are. True socialism cares about people; the loons only care about an idea and the gulags and killing fields of multiple countries prove it.
@InExile:
Should have voted for McCain? Now that is where we must part. As I said during the campaign, Obama at his worst is better than McCain at his best. Unfortunately, I didn’t foresee how “worst” it would be. In addition to betraying his promises to gays, Obama has made Bush’s war his. American combat troops out of Iraq? Hold your applause until you understand how many mercenaries like Blackwater have increased there under O’s watch paid for by US $$$ and with no motivation to end the conflict.
But, yes, it would be even worst under McCain who’s still trying to win the Vietnam war.
InExile
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm: My point is I just don’t see a difference! I thought there was a clear difference when I voted for him but now I see the lines blurred. I really wish I could see a difference but thus far it looks and feels the same. I guess the only positive is Sarah Palin is not Vice President. Obama has “become” such a centrist it is difficult to tell where he stands on anything.
I feel like I have been sold something I had no intention of buying! Call it buyers remorse, or that voice in my head saying “I told you so”, whatever, he is not doing what he portrayed he would do in the election. I feel like was sold on an apple when if fact it was a lemon.
MackMike
@SM: You really need, I mean you really do need, to stop equating the entire nation of gay people and their political activism to what you saw in Orange County. That is completely unfair. That would be forming an impression on all Americans based upon a visit to Fargo, ND.
And by the way, your support in Orange County was really so much easier for you to do than it was for many gay people who reside here. Yes, I stood up on the streets, but you know, I don’t have to worry about what my boss will say, if my family will drive by…I’m well beyond caring what the neigbors think or if I’ll be disowned by people who profess to love me. You, on the other hand, might tick off a few people, but then you get to play to the absolute hilt the Joan of Arc of the gay role, you seem to embrace.
Your constant threats to never donate another penny to fight anti-gay causes and cease supporting us is so very hollow. You either believe in equality for your brother and for others like him or you don’t. One does not spend time fighting for a cause for all the adulation and applause one expects to get. I gave you a verbal pat on the back, and that is about all you get. If you don’t believe in your bother’s basic civil rights, then perhaps you should throw your entire weight into the Obama in 2012 campaign and cease taunting folks here, which is very counter productive. My God, why waist your time doing that?
jason
President Clinton signed the defense of marriage act yet this jerk was out fucking Monica Lewinsky in the hallowed surrounds of the Oval Office. Nuff said.
MackMike
@DuttyBarb: Lesson in political correctness towards gays 101: A heterosexual (one who holds us under misused Biblical oppression no less) is not entiteld to refer to gay men as “fags,” “queers,” or “girls.” We, those who have been oppressed by the use of these words take the power away from them from by occassionally using them in social conversation with one another, rather in the same way that black Americans have and do occassionally use the “N” word among themselves. Your use of “girls, girls, girls,” is entirely distasteful, and unless you are willing to make your way to Compton, CA or Harlem, NY and toss around the “N” word to black folks whom you believe will embrace your use of that word because you also support anti-discrimination policy, I’d suggest you stop using such terms here. It reveals incredible ignorance.
SM
The first person wounded in the War on Iraq was a Marine who was gay. Where is he now? Why isn’t he telling America, Congress and Obama the first wounded veteran of Bush’s shock and awe was gay.
SM
You all need him speaking out more. He was the first person wounded in the Iraq war. What Religious Right could argue with the first person wounded over there…they would lose support fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t_AT4fwfCs&feature=channel_page
Bill Perdue
@InExile: Hillary Clinton sat, like a fat, malevolent spider, on the Board of Directors of Wal-Mart for several years helping them bust unions and drive down wages.
Soon after that her hubby championed NAFTA, the first of his major sellouts. Wal-Mart benefited more than most from NAFTA, extending their anti-union drive into Canada, Mexico and Central America, creating pauperization and wrecking the environment.
Fortunately, the Clintons betrayed so many people that they became the ultimate political losers and remain so to this day. That’s why Bill Clinton didn’t mind being called a scab and a bigot when he agree to speak at the Manchester Grand Hyatt in San Diego last February.
Clinton was picketed by 200 or so LGBT and trade union activists because the owner of the hotel was a major anti-same sex marriage activist and union buster, just like Clinton himself, who boasted about signing DOMA and NAFTA. Pigs of a feather, so to speak, nesting together.
The Clintons know they have nothing to lose anymore, no one left to fool so they go for the money, as all members of the worlds second oldest profession do. Lawyers are third and intimately connected with the other two.
Projecting your own views on any of these sleazy hustlers – McCain, Obama, Palin, Clinton or Biden – is a huge mistake. Just as it’s a huge mistake to feed trolls like SM and mikey. They both want us to put our trust in one faker or another. Both support union busting, homohating, pro-war candidates.
SM
@Bill Perdue:
LOL…You are dellusional. I’ve supported equal rights for LGBT with my time, money and resources more than most LGBT people.
I DONT CARE WHO YOU VOTE FOR.
You are wrong about Obama…freaking professioinal victim
GS
My God some of you are idiots! “Bill Clinton’s bigoted DADT” What the hell do you think , that you can just cobble together lies and half truths to make your tired point?
Clinton tried to repeal the ban on gays serving in the military. Congress would not let that stand, so they drafted this partial-birth abortion of a bill. Instead of learning your lesson, you guys are going to shreik for Obama to try and do the same thing.
Keep acting like this, and you wont see gay equality for 20 years.
Not my battle to fight
Shannon
@SM: Eric Alva celebrated his 4th of July by giving a speech for the repeal of DADT in San Antonio. He also contines to tour the country speaking out for gay rights.
He doesn’t need to argue with the religious right, because they aren’t in power right now. The people in power now that are impeding gay equality are our DEMOCRATIC President and our DEMOCRATIC Congress.
Stop deflecting.
violet camp
I am the author of The Military Heart and Soul which devel into the human toll of war and how to cope with loss,injury,or separation. You may order my book online. Thank you for reporting about our soldiers, we all need to be reminded of their service for our freedom. Violet Camp
Cam
@Cam: SM, I’m reposting my previous post, because you have continued to refuse to post your evidence of OBama’s long history/record on supporting GLBT rights. You have posted a few times since I posted this and yet you are still not coming up with anything to back up your point.
————————
@SM: you said
“@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.colm:
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa….
Grow up…OBAMA IS NOT A DICTATOR. Considering how LAZY LAZY LAZY the LGBT communtiy was when their civil rights were put up for popular vote last summer…you really have nothing to complain about because you all are MORE responsible for your losses than anyone else.
You all have the BEST CIVIL RIGHTS PRESIDENT IN HISTORY AND YOU PROVE ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE TOO WEAK TO HANDLE IT. Its driving Conservatives crazy that he sticks up for you and you still WHINE LIKE BABIES.
_____________________________________________________________
He asked you several times “You said Obama has a proven histoy on GLBT rights, what is that history?”
Instead of answering him you come back yelling and name calling. I would be very interested to hear from you also just what Obama’s “Proven” history on GLBT rights is. If you instead just call me a bunch of names and “Forget” to answer, then I guess we’ll know you were just talking out your ass.
Cam
@GS: You said “”My God some of you are idiots! “Bill Clinton’s bigoted DADT” What the hell do you think , that you can just cobble together lies and half truths to make your tired point?
Clinton tried to repeal the ban on gays serving in the military. Congress would not let that stand, so they drafted this partial-birth abortion of a bill. Instead of learning your lesson, you guys are going to shreik for Obama to try and do the same thing.
Keep acting like this, and you wont see gay equality for 20 years.”
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Yeah, and sitting back and letting the government ignore us will do WHAT exactly? Oh thats right, we STILL won’t get any rights for 20 years. Bill Clinton enshrined discrimination partly because the Democrats were full of old time homophobic bigots like Sam Nunn. Since the Dems currently hold a large majority in the house and a FILIBUSTER-PROOF majority in the senate, the ONLY reason why they couldn’t enact gay rights legislation is if the party continues to be full of homophobic bigots…is that what you are hinting at?
bobbo
I am all for caring for any military member. THE PROBLEM IS THE MILITARY ISNT AND DEMONSTRATES IT. No armour in Iraq for vehicles or troups, until finally, Mom & Dad at home get after their asses. If the military offciers in-charge of this nation’s trops truly cared then DADT would end. period end of discussion. You see they don’t care, like a vast majority in the military are gay. What you equalize the military and every faggot in town is going to sign up and overrun the straight troops. Only in porn you idiots. God, they actually believe we beliwve them when they say ” we must proceed carefully to protect our families” BULLSHIT is right. Take your Chrisitian beliefs out of my government-and I am a practicing Catholic but have a brain and can use it.
bobbo
If you look at the picture of the Chairman above. Is he exacting a size limit on gays in the military? LMAO
Latin Male
Shutup fags…nobody likes you and you know it thats why you are always at war with society…hate and sex, thats fags life…always wanting to conquer everything…i will hurt a fag bad before i die i swear…
Bri
@Latin Male: God, I hate closet cases. Get the fuck out of here, come back when you grow up.