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OPINION: The Case Against Pinkwashing, Or Why I’m Gay For Israel

 

Imagine a nation that prohibits workplace discrimination based on sexual orientation, allows gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military, provides domestic-partner benefits in the private and public sectors, recognizes gay adoptions (and gay marriages performed abroad), has LGBT celebrities whose careers haven’t been hurt by their coming out, and saw more than 100,000 people attend its most recent Pride parade—even though the whole country is smaller than the state of New Jersey?

What if I told you that, despite being one of the most pro-gay democracies on Earth, this country is under fire from the gay-activist set?

You may have guessed: I’m talking about Israel—a country that, when it comes to Pride, proves size doesn’t always matter.

As an American Jew born and raised in New York, my connection to Israel as a child was somewhat limited. I wasn’t one of those cool kids whose family did a bar mitzvah tour of the Western Wall, but I do remember being extremely annoyed receiving as gifts, certificates of trees that were planted in Israel in honor of my becoming a “man.”

But I lived in Israel for two years after high school and have made several trips back since. I am active and support various LGBT organizations in Israel and other pro-Israel organizations in the USA.

I’m not exactly sure what Zionism really means today. But “Zionism” was my winning word in a game of Scrabble during a Fire Island Pines weekend back in 2008.

My love and passion for the State of Israel actually matured after I came out: I truly felt comfortable in Israel as a country that supported and accepted my two greatest identities: gay and Jewish. It was amazing to be in a place that provides legal protection to LGBT people and has a rich cultural gay life—and simultaneously embraces my Jewish identity. It felt like home.

But lately my home is being attacked by other gays, Jewish and non-Jewish. And that makes me uncomfortable and even angry.

Many vocal queer activists are accusing Israel of using its positive record on LGBT rights to divert national and international attention away from Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people. They’ve created a term for this: Pinkwashing.

In the New York Times op-ed “Israel and Pinkwashing,” Jewish lesbian writer and playwright Sarah Schulman defines the term as “a deliberate strategy to conceal the continuing violations of Palestinians’ human rights behind an image of modernity signified by Israeli gay life.”

Pinkwashing is a misleading term because it implies that Israel’s treatment of gays is merely a stunt, which is completely invalid. Are pinkwashing activists really suggesting that the richness and diversity of pro-gay life there is all a conspiracy by the government to distract me from other issues within the region? It would be hard to make up the reality that is gay life in large swaths of Israel.

You really can’t invent a climate of not just tolerance, but acceptance, for the sole sake of propaganda.

 

By:           Jayson Littman
On:           Feb 9, 2012
Tagged: , , , , , ,

  • 102 Comments
    • Bryan
      Bryan

      Well said. With all the media attention focused on Israel, you would think it was bigger and more populous than China and worse than Darfur and North Korea combined.

      I have a hard time understanding LBGT folks who are siding with people who would very likely condemn them to a death sentence for being LBGT. And, they are unwitting pawns in an attempt not simply to end the occupation of the West Bank, but to destroy Israel (and if Hamas and Iran had their way, to kill all of the Israelis).

      Fight anti-gay laws in Iran. Fight the forced sterilization of trans folks in Sweden. If you want an anti-occupation battle, fight the Turkish occupation of Cyprus where they frequently arrest gays in contravention of European and Greek law.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      -I don’t like the Israelis or Palestinians. Having said that, I wonder how kindly a gay Palestinian would be treated in Israel. I doubt they would welcome him with open arms. You’re delusional if you think they would.

      -And for your Information, Israel bans all palestinians and lebanese citizens from using its airport. They would be harassed.

      -The fact that Israel is a tiny country makes it easier to pass pro-LGBTQ laws. Why would I be impressed by this? It’s would be more impressive (and much more difficult) to get something smiliar passed in the USA.

      -Why waste money on an ugly city like Tel Aviv when European cities are more beautiful and much less hassle?

      Feb 9, 2012 at 3:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      I see you removed my last comment. Are you going to censor every comment that conflicts with your views? I made some good points, guess you don’t want people to read the truth.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 4:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      A sensible, rational article posted on Queerty? What the hell is going on here…

      It’s true that Israel is the only genuine ally that gays have in the region, and the liberal radical “queers” who insist on shitting on them at every possible opportunity make me sick.

      Of course it won’t be long before the usual leftist attack dogs start jumping down your throat because the truth doesn’t match up with what their professors told them to think.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BillHemmer
      BillHemmer

      Israel is one of the most evil countires on the planet. If you support Israel then you support the pain they have inflicted upon the innocent of elderly of Palestine. This does explain why your blogs sucks so much.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nick
      Nick

      Maybe the reason the “gay activist set” dislikes Israel is because it has personal experience with the sort of discrimination it sees Palestinians suffering under. That is not a denial of Palestinians’ own human-rights abuses. That’s exactly the point about human rights, they represent a minimum for treatment of all people — even ones who aren’t very nice.

      You mention our war in Afghanistan as some kind of infraction Israel is innocent of. Well, our support for Israel is one of the reasons terrorists based in Afghanistan attacked us on 9/11. So for Israel or its supporters to criticize our vigorous self-defense there is to blame the victim.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • skzip888
      skzip888

      Howard Stern is better on gay rights than Michael Savage, it doesn’t mean I’ll be listening to his show anytime soon.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RVH
      RVH

      Amen, Nick. Many gay people defend the Palestinians because gay people know first-hand what oppression feels like. Gingrich gleefully spat out that the Palestinians are an “invented people.” That rhetoric is the very same kind of belittling and denial of our humanity that we in the LGBT community have felt for centuries. No matter how much you think somebody may hate you, or for that matter, how much somebody actually does hate you, meeting their hatred with more hatred and violence will never work long-term.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WJoaquin
      WJoaquin

      @skzip888: Wrong article, sweetie.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @BillHemmer: said…

      “Israel is one of the most evil countires on the planet. If you support Israel then you support the pain they have inflicted upon the innocent of elderly of Palestine. This does explain why your blogs sucks so much.”
      __________________

      Is this a joke? Lets see, Gays are murdered in Palestine….oh and did I mention that it is with the winking support of the govt? They are also arrested and tortured in Palestine, both legal.

      Palestinian gays move to Isreal where they are given legal asylum because their lives are considered to be in danger if they go back.

      So you are trying to say that a country that recognizes gay rights, allows them to serve, bars discrimination, and recognizes gays married in other countries is somehow worse than a country where gays are murdered with no punishment to the families.

      You are sick and self hating to defend the people who murder gays.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marie Cohn
      Marie Cohn

      See Eytan Fox’s film “The Bubble” for a better understanding of contemporary Israel’s complexity than the starry-eyed Mr. Littman’s naive valentine.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nathan
      Nathan

      Hmm. I don’t want to call gay rights a stunt in Israel, but much of the legislative protections and victories discussed in this article were passed without big push for the LGBT community in Israel. I think in many ways, gay rights are proxy for secularist movements in Israel, in that many people who don’t care all that much about gay rights or gay folk support them in that they are seen as antithetical to the growing conservative-religionist movement in Israeli internal politics. Outside of Israel, it is very clear that the government-controlled tourism agency has been pushing gay rights and gay-friendliness, especially of Tel Aviv, to gay communities around the world for the past several years. I think both internally and internationally, there is certainly “pinkwashing” going on. No one is saying that it probably isn’t easier to be gay in Israel than it is Saudi Arabia, but using gay rights a proxy for progressive/secularist values all the while maintaining a military occupation is not progressive nor is it pro-gay to claim that gay people in Israel live better than they do in neighboring countries while oppressing gay Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.

      I can speak to my own experience living in Be’er Sheva for a year, I found that a lot of folks were generally ok with gays as long as they didn’t talk about anything sexual, a very common attitude was “why don’t you go to Tel Aviv where you belong.” So many of the gay students at the university there, would skip town and head up to Tel Aviv any chance they got. In a lot of ways, this isn’t all that different than here in the States where there are gay meccas that people go to and straight folks from other places think that gay folk belong there, but my understanding of Israeli attitudes towards queer people were not “Ra Ra gays!” like the tourism agency is touting around the world.

      Ultimately, I think while many “rights” are protected in Israel for gay folk, I do no think that this is because Israel is such a welcoming country for gays. There is still plenty of discrimination in the Israeli military, let alone the greater notion that part of being able to be open in the military is to be part of an oppressive military regime (jail being the other alternative). Gay marriages legal in other countries are recognized in Israel, but semi-theocratic government structures put all marriages performed in Israel under the jurisdiction of the orthodox religious authorities. There are gay celebrities, but their celebrity status is often contingent on being publicly “apolitical” or in agreement with status quo understanding of the Occupation (ex. Ivri Lider vs. Dana International). This isn’t so different from the US, where gays fought for open military service during while engaging in two occupations of our most successful gay celebrities tend to not rock the boat. Just as there are a lot of great things and not so great things about the US, Israel is similar. Campaigns to pink wash to try to obscure this, however, making it look like Israel is all magic while its neighbors are uncivilized.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
      Steve

      @Nick: The United States was attack because of its support Middle Eastern Dictators with the worse Human Rights abusers on the planet who some have been toppled in 2011. Also as with the case of Afghanistan, Osama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden did not like the idea of American troops defending Muslim holy sites in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War in 1991 and also did not even like the idea of American Troops in any Muslim nations period. Also CIA did teach him everything that he used against since the United States was trying to remove the Soviet Union from that country and it back fired on the United States.

      The problem here Israel is not even problem. Most Palestinians do not even trust their own leadership since they have brought them down the wrong roads and as with most Israeli’s, Palestinians do back the two state solution. Canada’s Globe and mail newspaper did a series on Hamas and it does back up this view that Palestinians do not even trust their leadership:

      Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/hamas/palestinian-opinion/article2041855/?from=sec13623

      How optimistic or pessimistic are you toward reaching a peaceful settlement for the Arab-Israeli conflict?

      Very optimistic: 1.9
      Optimistic: 29.8
      Pessimistic: 41.8
      Very pessimistic 22.8
      Don’t know/No answer: 0.4

      Which of these solutions do you prefer?

      Two-state solution, with separate Israeli and Palestinian states: 53.2%
      Bi-national state, with Israelis and Palestinians being equal in a country covering all of historic Palestine: 22.1%
      Palestinian state only: 10.4%
      No solution: 9.5%
      Islamic state only: 1.2%
      Other answer: 3.6%

      Do you support the continuation of military operations against Israeli targets as an appropriate response under current political conditions or do you oppose them and believe they harm Palestinian national interests?

      Support: 37.1%
      Oppose: 51.8%
      Don’t know: 7.3%
      Other/No answer: 8.6%

      How do you feel about the suicide-bombing operations against Israeli civilians?

      Strongly support: 15.8%
      Somewhat support: 21.5%
      Somewhat oppose: 26.0%
      Strongly oppose: 31.1%
      Don’t know/No Answer: 5.6%

      Do you think that the locally made rockets fired from the Gaza Strip toward Israeli regions help, harm or don’t make any difference with regard to Palestinian goals?

      Help: 25.4%
      Harm: 38.6%
      No difference: 31.5%
      Other/Don’t know/No Answer: 4.4%

      Which political or religious faction do you trust the most?

      Fatah: 34.0%
      Hamas: 15%
      None: 37.0%
      Other: 14.0%

      Which Palestinian leader do you trust the most?

      Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian president, Fatah leader: 17.9%
      Ismail Haniyeh, prime minister for Gaza, Hamas member: 11.4%
      Marwan Barghouti, imprisoned Fatah figure: 6.8%
      Salam Fayyad, Palestinian prime minister, independent: 4.3%
      No one: 39.1%
      Others/no answer: 19%

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      Okay, let me try to answer your questions.

      At first, I’d like to state that as a lefty, I reject nationalism, no matter who practises it.

      Why is Israel held to different standards than other countries in the Middle East? – That’s because Israel counts as part of the Western world despite its geographic location. Israel got Western world status partly because of its progressive LGBT legislation. And, of course, in the Western world there are much higher standards regarding the respect of human rights than in the rest of the world. Therefore, you can’t compare Israel to countries like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia or Palestine.

      In the last ten years, the USA went to war with Iraq and Afghanistan and civilian losses there are far higher than any conflict in Israel. – Honestly, I have no idea why you bring that up. I am pretty sure that the USA and Israel are roughly equally unpopular around the world, precisely because of these wars and the killing of so many innocent people. Compared to the rest of the Western world, both are pretty right-wing countries that are also connected by a close friendship. Western countries that don’t respect human rights are disliked. Period. Israel is not singled out.

      Also, you have to consider history. Jewish people have been the victims of oppression in the past. That’s precisely why Jewish people shouldn’t turn around and oppress others. Jewish people are expected to be wiser, because they know how it feels to be at the receiving end of injustice. Therefore, it’s perceived as twice as terrible when they commit injustice to others. You could compare this to the situation in the USA: In the past, African Americans have been denied equal rights. Now, a high percentage of African Americans deny equal rights to LGB Americans, although they should know better.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 5:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LandStander
      LandStander

      I do not support a country just because they are kind to their gays. Just because gay people are killed in Palestine does not mean that I support the constant and continued expansion of Israeli people in the west bank. If Sweden (where gay marriage is legal) was occupying another peoples land, I would be against that occupation too. Maybe if the homes and farms of the Palestinian people were not being taken over and occupied at a drastic rate, they would not fire so many rockets at Israel.
      Having good LGBT laws on the books does not give you license to do whatever you want.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 7:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Myles MacLean
      Myles MacLean

      If any of you anti-Palestine bigots bothered to try to get both sides of the Israeli apartheid truth, they might start by reading Haaretz!
      Myles.
      P.S.
      Queerty isn’t so one-sided all of the time.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 7:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • brian
      brian

      why not just be gay for the netherlands? or gay for belgium? or gay for spain? all countries with full gay rights, without theocratic marriage laws and, above all, which don’t rob other peoples’ land.

      perfect.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 8:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WJoaquin
      WJoaquin

      @We the People!: We all know this is a phony post. Quit trying to discredit anyone who has a criticism of Israel by accusing us of anti-semitism.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 8:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fodolodo
      Fodolodo

      Given that the standard spelling of “Zionism” involves a capital “Z”, I’m pretty sure it’s not a legal Scrabble word.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 8:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      While yes, Israel seems very pro-gay, that doesn’t let them off the hook for other human rights abuses. Their treatment of people in Gaza is horrific.

      Before you say that some people in Gaza are terrorists, which is undoubtedly true, keep in mind that that same rationalization was used to justify Japanese internment.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 9:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Freddie
      Freddie

      Being a gay Jew myself, I have never and will never travel to Israel and I attempt to boycott all Israeli goods. Just because Israel is pro-LGBT, does not mean I excuse it for its dreadful treatment of Palestinians and its desperate desire to occupy more land!

      Feb 9, 2012 at 9:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      I don’t mind legitimate (or arguable) criticisms or dislike of Israel, but I hate it from most gay men because I know they know nothing of the situation over there and are just going by the required Gay Rules : You HAVE to hate Israel (and Texas, and all of the Southern U.S., and…etc….)

      Feb 9, 2012 at 9:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      And note how most gay men would gladly push the button to drop a bomb on Texas, and kill every single person there, and are the same ones whining about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians (a WAY more dangerous place for gays than Texas). The Gay makes no sense.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 9:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben Johnson
      Ben Johnson

      As a member of the Baha’i I do to travel to Israel on a regular basis I can never understand this crap the Anti Israel groups say. For one Israel was the only nation in the region that does not hunt us down and Israel gave us religious freedom. Yes! like in any other country Israel does have ethic tensions, however it is not state policy and in most cases any ethic tensions are isolated. Also this Apartheid label is simply not the case. There is no segregation in Israel such as bathrooms for Arabs and for non-Arabs.

      Everyone is equal under the law and everyone can vote in Israeli elections. There are many Arab members of the Knesset and even political Parties I think the problem is with the left and how they seem to hate everything. One they hate Liberal Democracy, Capitalism, and Religion. Also many Palestinians in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan and in other Middle Eastern Nations were Palestinians are subjected to Apartheid since they are not even considered citizens and can not hold jobs, own property, get an education, can not get citizenship of that nation, and get healthcare because those nations refuse to help them. This is a violation of basic human rights and the Anti Israel folk never seem to care about this. Also all Palestinians in other Middle Eastern Nation have to live in their refugee camp and can even leave them. Also these governments give them second class status because they are Palestinian and they are used by these governments as Political tools.
      here’s a video on conditions: http://youtu.be/lB7q5YHfP_w

      Feb 9, 2012 at 9:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      @CBRad: Gay men have as much right to dislike the Israeli government as straight men do. Sure, some gays just hate Israel because they are told they have to. Others, however (and I think you underestimate the amount) have actually done some research on the topic and can make a well-reasoned argument that Israel is violating the human rights of innocents within its borders.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 9:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @Riker: I agree with all that, except for your assertion that I underestimate the number of gay men who actually do research. I absolutely believe the number of researchers is minimal (from my own experience with them). Gay men, generally, find Reaction to be easier, less of an unecessary effort of doing research (and Reaction also solidifies their acceptance into the Gay ghetto). So..we’ll just have to disagree on that one.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 9:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      and what exactly does it cost israel to be nice to the gays?

      Feb 9, 2012 at 9:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pete Webb
      Pete Webb

      Thank you Jayson. I am honored to consider you a friend and colleague. We both share a passion for LGBT Rights and our love of Israel. Chanukah teaches us that even a little bit of light can dispel a disproportionate amount of darkness. One candle at a time, every day we increase just a little bit of light, and that’s what brings about the ultimate miracle.
      Keep sharing your truth and light! Your truth will dispel the darkness of fear and ignorance.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 9:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Danny
      Danny

      Some reality checking is in order.

      First, Israel has only recognized and registered 1 marriage of a gay couple from abroad. It required a court case and set no precedent.

      Second, Israel actually bans discrimination based on sexual orientation not only in employment, as the article mentions, but also goods & services and public accommodations including housing.

      Third, Palestinians are occupying Jordan. The so-called West Bank (as opposed to the coastal Gaza Strip) is the west bank of the nation of Jordan. Palestinians are occupying land that belongs to Jordanians.

      Fourth, Egypt could easily give Palestinians one large continuous piece of land bigger than the West Bank and Gaza Strip combined if Egypt actually gave a sh*t about Palestinians. Same goes for Syria and Lebanon (which hate each other with a passion). Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan could do so as well without batting an eye if they actually cared about the Palestinians as a people rather than as a political tool. Muslims, for all their talk of solidarity, are no more a grand group of brotherhood than Christians or Hindus are. Palestinians are just a useful tool for corrupt governments to use as a distraction from their own mass human rights violations and the few government officials who grow wealthy off the oil revenue while their average citizen gets nothing of equal value.

      Fifth, Palestinians could pass laws protecting LGBT citizens as equally as Israel has – thus removing any so-called advantage detractors claim Israel has. So why has the Palestinian Authoritity failed to take this simple, easily-achieved action? Same goes for Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. There is no excuse.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 10:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Craig
      Craig

      This article makes a lot of sense. The conflict and gay rights are two separate issues and should
      Be kept separate. I don’t believe the critics are anti Semites but anti-Semites seem to follow the bds movement.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 10:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHIP1218
      CHIP1218

      First of all, people who have never gone through the experiences the Israelis and Palestinians have gone through, let alone have not visited the region, cannot fully grasp how it is to live there and how it is to be a gay or lesbian living in that region.

      Secondly, Israel hasn’t just started being tolerant towards gays, some of these lgbt protections date 15, 20 or even close to 25 years. I spent the summer of 1994 living in Israel and it’s where I had my first same sex kiss. Gay Europeans were vacationing in Tel Aviv almost 18 years ago knowing it was a great summer holiday spot.

      No one is disputing what has happened to the Palestinian people is tragic, but it isn’t solely the Israelis fault. Israel didn’t kick them out in 1948, they fled because they were lied to by the other Arab leaders to try and create a military advantage in the 1948 war. Those Palestinians who stayed and lived in Israel became full citizens. Meanwhile, the Palestinians who were refugees in lands now controlled by Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt were treated as such. They lived in refugee camps and even if they did get to live in regular cities and towns, they were never allowed to become citizens of their adopted countries. The King of Jordan never championed to make the West Bank autonomous. The President of Egypt never offered independence to the Gaza Strip. They were used and abused by their fellow Arabs, and these Arab countries pushed them towards terrorism as a ploy for military advantage against Israel.

      We are all free to have a certain cause or issue be so important that it solely determines our viewpoint. Some people are so passionate about abortion, others against it that they will only vote for and support people who feel the same way as them on that specific issue. Others might make union support their sole issue, and others right-to-work. If you want to make Palestinian rights your primary cause, that is fine you are free to do so. However, this idea that all of Israel’s lgbt rights initiatives over the past 20 plus years has been to subjugate Palestinians by giving rights to another disenfranchised minority is absurd. It’s simply a conspiracy theory.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 10:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHIP1218
      CHIP1218

      @Danny:

      Actually back in 2010 when my partner’s visa status wasn’t confirmed, we looked at immigrating to Israel in order to be together. The US consulate was going to recognize my relationship with my partner as long as we got married in a state that allowed legal same sex marriage or Canada or Portugal that allowed same sex marriage without either of us being a resident. They would denote him as my spouse on our paperwork, and would have granted him citizenship with me.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 11:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RVH
      RVH

      @CBRad: “And note how most gay men would gladly push the button to drop a bomb on Texas, and kill every single person there.”

      I hope this is hyperbole (really twisted and unfounded hyperbole) because otherwise this was pulled straight out of your ass. If you were serious then I can’t even begin to say how stupid this comment is.

      Feb 9, 2012 at 11:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark S
      Mark S

      Isreal “oppressing” Palestinians? They are DEFENDING themselves from them! Read the history from the beginning. And even when Isreal gave back some of the land that was demanded, it only got used as a launchpad for more attacks to ultimately try to succeed in pushing Israel into the sea. I think we need to set the record straight on who is oppressing who here.

      As far as saying that bringing up America’s greater number of casualties in the Middle East than Israel’s being irrelevant, come on. So we’re equally disliked. The point is it’s AMERICANS that are condemning Israel for it’s defending itself. Meanwhile it’s AMERICA that has caused more deaths over there.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 12:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark S
      Mark S

      Israel “oppressing” Palestinians? They are DEFENDING themselves from them! Read the history from the beginning. And even when Israel gave back some of the land that was demanded, it only got used as a launchpad for more attacks to ultimately push Israel into the sea. I think we need to set the record straight on who is oppressing who here.

      As far as saying that America’s greater number of casualties in the Middle East than Israel’s is irrelevant, come on. So we’re equally disliked. The point is it’s AMERICANS that are condemning Israel. Meanwhile it’s AMERICA that has caused more deaths in the Mid East than Israel.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 12:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark S
      Mark S

      Israel “oppressing” Palestinians? They are DEFENDING themselves from them! Read the history from the beginning. And even when Israel gave back some of the land that was demanded, it only got used as a launchpad for more attacks to ultimately push Israel into the sea. I think we need to set the record straight on who is oppressing who here.

      As far as saying that America’s greater number of casualties in the Middle East than Israel’s is irrelevant, I strongly disagree. It’s very relevant. So we’re equally disliked. The point is it’s AMERICANS that are condemning Israel. Meanwhile it’s AMERICA that has caused more deaths in the Mid East than Israel.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 12:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Drew
      Drew

      @BillHemmer-I agree! Israel treats Palestinians the way Jews were treated in Germany before and during the Holocaust.

      Let’s also not forget at how while this article wants to paint Israel as being LGBT friendly it’s anything but!

      Jewish people and Israelis are actually highly homophobic, biphobic, and transphobic and it’s not just Orthodox and Hasidic Jews who are like this.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 12:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @Drew: That’s just kooky. Jews are one of the most gay-accepting religions/ethnicities there is.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 12:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • shannon
      shannon

      CAUSE THEY ARE STEALING LAND FROM AND SUPPRESSING THE NATIVE BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE WHO ARE THE NATIVE PEOPLES OF THAT LAND??????

      Feb 10, 2012 at 12:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug
      Doug

      No fan of Israel here, used to be ok with Israel but they commited war crimes on the people of the Gaza Strip and are eating up the land of Palestinian people for a Palestinian state. I see Israel as a greedy nation and paranoid nation thats proving itself to be extremely dangerous. Israel shows no interest in being a fair and truthful negotiator in finding a peaceful solution to its conflicts. Israel controls our country way more than it should and I feel its a bigger threat to America than the Iranian, Palestians or any other Muslim nation! My opinion on Israel can easily be changed if they negotiated a fair deal and helped create a Palestinian state.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 12:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @Ryan: Like anything on that man-hating site of extreemo-feminists (always talking about male privilege) has any credibility.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 1:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TxHeat
      TxHeat

      The bizarre support of supposedly pro-gay leftists with gay-murdering Islamo fascists truly baffles me. I find this article refreshing and commend Queerty for standing up for the truth.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 1:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @TxHeat: I keep telling you. That’s one of the Gay Rules..!! You must not know as many as I do.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 1:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • skzip888
      skzip888

      @WJoaquin:
      Nope just an analogy. Replace “Howard Stern” with “Dr. Demento” I guess.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 1:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @TxHeat: Actually, do you know where it initially came from? Because U.S. religious right-wingers often were supporters of Israel, gays had to decide Israel was the enemy too. Because gays can’t deal with complicated shades-of-gray real life (they have to put all enemies on one side, and all allies on the other, in neat black and white) it was established/decided that an anti-Israel position is required for gay community inclusion. And gays, especially gays who move to the gay ghettos of NYC or Hollywood or San Fran, just automatically adopt it. (Except for a very few homosexuals who actual DO investigate the mid-east situation fairly, and who might be critical of Israel for legitimate- although arguable- reasons).

      Feb 10, 2012 at 1:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben Johnson
      Ben Johnson

      @CBRad: Very True! what the far left does not seem to get Israel also has religious freedom. For example the Baha’i (I’m one) found religious freedom in Israel. In Haifa So as Muslims and Christians are free to openly practice their religion without being murdered. Also we made this in Haifa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD_World_Centre) sadly we are hunted down in other Middle Eastern Nations.

      Also my Ex is from Ghajar which is at the center of the fight between Lebanon and Israel. When the town found out the Israeli government was withdrawing from the Lebanon part they were up in arms about it. They would rather be Israeli and most of the towns residents are Muslim.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 1:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @Ben Johnson: Thanks. Very interesting. I was unaware of how much trouble the Baha’i had over there. (Admittedly I don’t know much about it, except for that beautiful Chicago temple. : ) )

      Feb 10, 2012 at 2:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TxHeat
      TxHeat

      I am thankful that I do not know of these so called Gay rules, sounds like there own version of Islamo Fascism.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 2:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @TxHeat: Definitely a mean-spirited fascism. Thank goodness they don’t have the power of a Mussolini, Hitler , Stalin, or Mao to actuall decree everyone has to follow their rules- OR ELSE.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 2:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      And, please, again, I’m not saying one can’t be knowledgeably critical of Israel or debate the situation. I just hate the way the gay hates Israel automatically like a programmed automaton, just to fit in ! And they actually fantasize that that makes THEM the more enlightened ones, so so so much smarter than the dummies they left behind in whatever ‘burb they came from.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 2:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Danny
      Danny

      @Shannon You’re joking right? That’s like saying Alabama or New Jersey residents are the indigenous people of the USA. Palestinians are not the indigenous people of the region. The only existing tribe that could claim indigenous status would be the Samaritans (who were deemed evil by everyone and regularly attacked, thus the biblical tale of the Good Samaritan was told to say “look not everyone in any given group is bad no matter what others might tell you their reputation is.”

      Feb 10, 2012 at 3:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MD
      MD

      If the author doesn’t know the meaning of Zionism that on what authority can he analyse pink washing?

      Once again, accusing anti-Zionists of being anti-Semitic.

      I point the author to Antony Lowenstein’s ‘My Israel Question’ for some critical thinking….

      Also, both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch criticise Hamas for their treatment of gays, indiscriminate rocket attacks, and Israel’s disproportionate human rights violations, so the author is simply wrong in his assessment.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 5:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nick
      Nick

      It’s nice to see all this sympathy for GLBT Palestinians, but why do I think it would vanish if they had a platform to speak their mind about Israel?

      Feb 10, 2012 at 8:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • InscrutableTed
      InscrutableTed

      Well, this explains why Queerty gives so much coverage to Michael Lucas, the otherwise non-notable porn star who likes to cheer for Israel and complain about Arabs.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 8:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • adam
      adam

      if the original poster is going to argue in part that a liberated and “pinkwashed” israel allows him to combine both sides of his identity as a gay jewish man. . . . that begs a question logically: why shouldn’t a gay man of palestinian extraction have access to the same kind of homeland?

      so, two crazy tribes have been fighting over the same swaths of desert for sixty years now. it’s difficult not to conclude they should find whatever verses in their respective holy books translate as “get over it already.”

      Feb 10, 2012 at 8:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Frank
      Frank

      @BillHemmer: Nice….go and be gay in Iran….or Saudi Arabia

      Feb 10, 2012 at 9:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      @Mark S: “Israel “oppressing” Palestinians?”
      Yes, denying independence is a form of oppression.

      “They are DEFENDING themselves from them!”
      Since when is the building of illegal settlements a means of self-defence?

      “As far as saying that America’s greater number of casualties in the Middle East than Israel’s is irrelevant, I strongly disagree.”
      I didn’t say it’s irrelevant. Look, the USA is a much bigger country, has more resources and a much bigger army. Consequently, the deaths caused by the US Army outnumber the deaths caused by the Israeli Army. You have to consider the proportions.

      “The point is it’s AMERICANS that are condemning Israel. Meanwhile it’s AMERICA that has caused more deaths in the Mid East than Israel.”
      I think that those Americans who condemn Israel’s politics while not condemning their own country’s politics are clearly self-righteous. When people oppose war, killing and injustice, then they logically have to oppose these things in any case, regardless of the perpetrators’ nationality.
      However, you have to distinguish between the Western world and the rest of the world. I consider human rights violations committed by a Western world country worse than human rights violations by other countries, simply because I expect the Western world to be more mature and civilised.

      By the way, do you know the website Mondoweiss? You should have a look at it.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 9:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • brian
      brian

      @Frank
      You said: @BillHemmer: Nice….go and be gay in Iran….or Saudi Arabia

      but why this limited choice? why not go be gay in the netherlands, belgium, portugal, or denmark. all countries that, unlike israel, give full gay rights. and don’t rob land.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 9:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Simon
      Simon

      @Dorothea from Germany: Are you stupid?? Human rights violations by “western world” countries are “worse” than violations by non western countries?? Im being tortured in a Syrian jail, but luckily it doest hurt as much as not being given minority language education for my children in a western world country…
      You ignorant idiot. Human rights are UNIVERSAL and human rights organizations fail when they only critize the often petty problems in western countries while largely ignoring the massive problems in other countries, but then its a lot safer to critize the german govertment than going to Iran and stage a protest. That will get you killed probably.
      The same thing applies in war. When fighting enemies who deliberately violate every convention in existence to get a military advantage the Israel is not bound by them not by law and not morally. No real person deserves to die because you, in germany, need to see conventions observed in Israel. These are real people. If you are worried about conventions not being observed then go die in flames in Gaza to highlight the MASSIVE crimes committed there or alternative STFU with your OBSCENELY NAIVE NONSENSE

      Feb 10, 2012 at 10:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WJoaquin
      WJoaquin

      @CBRad: “And note how most gay men would gladly push the button to drop a bomb on Texas, and kill every single person there.”

      I hope this is hyperbole (really twisted and unfounded hyperbole) because otherwise this was pulled straight out of your ass. If you were serious then I can’t even begin to say how completely stupid your comment is. Not that it isn’t stupid anyway.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 10:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tim
      Tim

      Did you read the entirety of the Schulman article? I’ve read one of her books, and, although she comes across kind of crazy, she usually articulates her points very well. Last paragraph:

      “In Israel, gay soldiers and the relative openness of Tel Aviv are incomplete indicators of human rights — just as in America, the expansion of gay rights in some states does not offset human rights violations like mass incarceration. The long-sought realization of some rights for some gays should not blind us to the struggles against racism in Europe and the United States, or to the Palestinians’ insistence on a land to call home.”

      Basically, that was going to be my comment to you on your article. I think gay people need to be leaders not just in fighting for their own rights, but also against racism and oppression of other vulnerable social classes. Israel for American gay dollars does not excuse major human rights violations against Palestinians. And to say it’s worse other places is true, though doesn’t make Israel a respectable leader when it comes to human rights. I don’t have any intention of visiting there in the near future.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 11:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      @Simon: There’s no reason to call me names. I am sure you know exactly how the things I wrote were meant. Of course, I didn’t mean that human rights violations don’t hurt equally much. Also, I didn’t write that human rights violations by the non-Western world should be ignored. Not at all. It’s just that there are higher expectations on the Western world regarding the respect of human rights. By the way, not being given minority language education is not a human rights violation. In your example, you compare apples and oranges.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 11:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Simon
      Simon

      I know what you meant. You said so very explicitly. Expectations are lower for some countries so we dont critize them so much as western countries. That is the CORE problem here. A democratic gay tolerant Israel is fighting homicidal maniacs who try to kill as many civilians as possible using children and retarded youngsters as suicide bombers and your lot has the audacity to brand Israel evil?

      How would you want the “western world” to fight Hitler? Should they refrain from retaliating the London Blitz, the destruction of Warsaw, the razing of Belgrade? Bombing German cities would not be considered humane by any standard but then WW2 was about as far from the cozy naive politisizing you pass around as you can get. That was total war then and it is so in Israel now. It is them or us, there is no talking possible when the maniacs want to kill you. The only thing that keeps israelis alive is their DEFENSE so STFU

      The difference between freedom fighters and terrorists is whether you kill innocents and civilians. Palestinians have amply showed themselves as terrrorists or have you forgotten the Olympics in Munic in 1972 where ALL israeli athletes were gunned down, 1 year later came the Yom Kippur war, the Arab surprise attack on a holiday to wipe out Israel.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 11:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben
      Ben

      I live in Israel and, while the situation here is better than many places, there are still certainly problems here for the GLBT community. Most of the rights GLBT Israelis have are due to Supreme Court decisions, not because the government granted them. In fact, the current Foreign Minister, Avigdor Leiberman, who is now touting how great the gay community is here, is the head of a far right-wing party that has presented bills before the Israeli government to do things like remove civil unions for GLBT Israelis by making them for heterosexual couples only, and change how Supreme Court justices are chosen to give politicians more sway so the court isn’t so “liberal”. Israel is certainly speaking out both sides of her mouth in regards to the GLBT community, but tying that to the Palestinian situation is tentative at best.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 11:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      @Simon: “Expectations are lower for some countries so we dont critize them so much as western countries.”
      Yes, expectations are lower. However, there must be equal criticism. What upsets other lefties and me so much is the fact that it is impossible to negatively criticise Israel’s treatment of Palestinians without being accused of being a Jew-hater. Probably these false and hurtful accusations are the reason why lefties consider it necessary to counteract by voicing their criticism of Israel’s politics even louder. Thereby, the lefties’ criticism of human rights violations by non-Western countries gets lost in the shuffle.

      “your lot has the audacity to brand Israel evil”
      No, we don’t brand Israel evil. We negatively criticise a certain part of Israel’s politics. That’s a huge difference.

      “How would you want the ‘western world’ to fight Hitler?”
      Honestly, I don’t know. I am glad that I wasn’t alive at that time. I am a pacifist who thinks that the military should be abolished worldwide. No military, no war, no guns, no killing.

      “That was total war then and it is so in Israel now. It is them or us, there is no talking possible when the maniacs want to kill you. The only thing that keeps israelis alive is their DEFENSE”
      Do I understand correctly that you equate Palestinians with Nazis? Do you suffer from paranoia? Do you believe that Jews are always the victims, no matter what? Nationalism is anything but self-defence. Victims of nationalism shouldn’t become practitioners of nationalism.

      “The difference between freedom fighters and terrorists is whether you kill innocents and civilians.”
      So, you believe that the Israeli Army has never killed innocents and civilians? Seriously? Anyway, killing people is always wrong. All people have an inalienable right to live, even bad people.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 1:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      @Nick: Well said, Nick (#4). I agree wholeheartedly with what you wrote. .

      Feb 10, 2012 at 2:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @WJoaquin: It’s not hyperbole at all.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 2:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      @CBRad: Violence is no solution!

      Feb 10, 2012 at 2:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JohnAGJ
      JohnAGJ

      Good article, Jayson. Very refreshing to see this on Queerty of all places. The Israeli government is deserving of criticism for its mistakes, just like any other, but this over-the-top BS by some against Israel is absurd.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 2:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BillHemmer
      BillHemmer

      Just because you are Jewish doesn’t mean you have to support everything they do. Israel does some really evil and crappy things. You are no longer in high school and are not required to support everything your home team does. Spraying white phosphorus on innocent injured children and the elderly is just wrong. It is also unfair for Queerty to post their opinion and then censor those that disagree.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 5:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WJoaquin
      WJoaquin

      @CBRad: Then congratulations, you’re an idiot.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 7:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @WJoaquin: YOU can pretend anything you want to….hide..

      Feb 10, 2012 at 7:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WJoaquin
      WJoaquin

      @CBRad: Okay, then if you really believe that garbage, then please provide me with some actual evidence that most gay people want to bomb Texas and kill its entire populace.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 7:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @WJoaquin: I can’t provide you with any record of what NYC gays have been telling me for years, but all you have to do is read the blogs regularly. That says it. See in regular statements how they feel about Texas, and then look at underhanded ways they’ve tried to hurt/frame/kill innocent people in the past (just because those people belonged to the created ENEMY category). And if you don’t believe it’s true, why are you arguing with me? I’m telling everybody what i’ve experienced, and you’re giving your own opinion. Let people decide, then, who’s correct from their own experiences.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 8:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WJoaquin
      WJoaquin

      @CBRad: I’m arguing with you because what you’re saying is libel, something if you leveled at a prominent figure (that they want innocent people to die) you would get sued for. I don’t care what you think you’ve experienced. Point me to a gay blog where they’re actually serious about bombing Texas. If you’re going to make such an absurd claim, you need more than just some random experiences and interpretations to back it up.

      Feb 10, 2012 at 8:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Simon
      Simon

      @Dorothea from Germany: I dont believe in killing people either. I think its a last resort to be used in defense, not like palestinian and leftwing terrorists as means to further a cause. Israel has never taken palestians as hostages and threatened to kill them if this or that political object is not met.

      Your problem is that your pacifism just dont have any workable answer in the face of rampant murderous rage. Sadly murderous rage is a lot more common than we’d like. Its happening in Syria now, its happening in Bolivia Gaza etc etc. Until you solve the fundamental question of how to protect peoples lives from maniacs who kill to get their own way i dont give a damn about your rosy pacifism. You even admit that you have no idea how to fight Hitler who just happens to be the worst butcher in history and the most pure example of a maniac who is willing to kill others to promote his own interest. In this way palestinians are similar to nazis. They kill to promote their policy.
      Everyone wants peace in the Middle East. The only difference is on what terms. Quite frankly war is the only alternative however unpleasant, when your enemy is bent on the destruction of Israel. How would you compromise? Kill half the jews? Collect them in ghettos and make them wear little yellow stars…?
      Besides the close ties between nazis and arab dictators and leaders like Nasser and Grandmufti of Jerusalem is a historical fact and so is the inspiration nice political movements like Baathism found in Nazism. Iraq and Syria and formerly Egypt had a great deal more in common with Nazi Germany than anything else. They had the Fuhrers too you know and Hitlerjugend. Open your eyes for gods sake! Does it make you happy to see Palestinian parents dress their children up in suicide bombers clothes?

      Feb 11, 2012 at 6:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      @Simon:
      “Quite frankly war is the only alternative however unpleasant, when your enemy is bent on the destruction of Israel. How would you compromise?”
      Let’s assume for a moment that the situation for Jewish Israelis is actually as threatening as you tell me. Now answer me this question: What is more important to Jewish Israelis, their land or their lives? Whenever there’s a life and death fight, my suggestion is that the cleverer give in, so that further killing is avoided. And as politically incorrect as I am, I consider Jewish people cleverer than Muslims. Therefore, I think that it’s the task of the Jewish Israelis to take the high road and end the Israeli–Palestinian conflict peacefully. Why don’t Jewish Israelis move (back) to Europe or North America and leave the land of Israel to the Muslims? That would be a win-win situation. Jewish people can live here in peace and enjoy religious freedom. The Muslims are appeased, because they finally have the land they wanted. No more oppression, no more threats, no more killings, on neither side. Don’t you think that it’s totally ridiculous to risk your life for a small piece of dirty ground? Why are Jewish people so adamant about having a whole country for themselves that they are willing to engage in decades-long massacres? I really don’t get that. That’s totally sick … and nationalist. I am an atheist. Atheists don’t have a country for themselves either. So what? We are able to live in peaceful coexistence with anyone who gives us equal rights and doesn’t try to impose his/her religious believes on us. And Jews are able to do that, too. They are already at home in the whole Western world. Jewish Israelis should come here and join us and leave the Middle East to the Muslims. Bye the way, there are already a lot of young Israelis who move to Germany, because they are disgusted by how right-wing their country is.

      “You even admit that you have no idea how to fight Hitler.”
      Why should I have an idea how to fight him? You talk as if he’s still alive when actually he’s history. And there is nothing that anyone could do or say to make history undone. It’s totally pointless to look for solutions to something that is already over.

      “Open your eyes for gods sake!”
      Nope, there is no god. If there were a god, then all this killing wouldn’t take place.

      Feb 11, 2012 at 12:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dan
      Dan

      @Dorothea from Germany:

      While I recognize the ideal quality of your suggestion, it’ll never work. And it’s not the Israeli Jews’ fault, necessarily.

      While you bring up the difference between “their lives and their lands”, I think you should apply that to the Palestinians as well. In all honestly, when you do, I think you get the answer of “lands”. As someone who has taken interest in the conflict, I do recognize that many Israelis are more “lives” people, and the idea that they should move if they really want peace isn’t necessarily a bad one, but for the most fucked up reason. Israel has had quite a few life and death fights. Their independence is one of them. Maybe they might not be as clever as you think, but you are right in that their will to survive is not something to discount.

      Now, here’s the part where I get ANGRY with you. America and Europe? NO, 50% of Israeli Jews do NOT come from there. Part of my family background is “Yemenite”, for example. The other half comes from other lands, and in all honesty can’t return. You really think that all the Libyan Jews CAN return – when their current population in Libya is absolute 0. Every Middle Eastern country has had at the very least a 75% decrease in their Jewish population. Iran is the exception, but 25,000 today compared to a population that used to be 250,000, if not more, is kinda pathetic. Israel alone has that many “Iranian Jews” who are Israeli, and Los Angeles itself has more “Iranian Jews” than the entirety of Iran. For a reason: Many 30 years old and older used to live in Iran. They might have nostalgia, but not a reason to go back. I bring up my Yemenite background, because, if you want the Jews to return, you are asking a population of 300,000+ to go back to the WORST conditions. The Yemenite Jews literally can’t move around, not in the open air. They are subjugated to live in protected bunkers, the entire community has trouble with jobs, and murders are quite frequent.

      Ignoring the fact that your suggestion is screwing over 50+ % of the Israelis, you ignore the fact that many are BORN Israeli: That is their home. If you feel bad for the Palestinians, consider the people also born there too. That’s why I support a two state solution.

      Even your own comment says that it’s win-win because the Muslims will be appeased. I have to wonder how far your appeasement goes. If that’s your reason, then it’s obvious to me why people just don’t look at the Israeli side. Because, really, for a logical situation to work, both sides need to give up something. There really isn’t as much “oppression” as you think. Granted, things aren’t rosy; however, statistically, they work against attacks against the Israelis. I know, once again, you’d point to moving out, but while I appreciate elevating the Israelis to a higher moral plane than the Palestinians, there is a baseline morality that they are crossing.

      Jews aren’t a product of the West. They were originaly quite Eastern. It’s true that nowadays they can find comfort in the West, but I think it’s pathetic to abandon the East like you do. Atheists seem to care less about Arab atheist suffering, fewer people know about the oppression of the Kurds, and Christians are leaving at an alarming rate. No one cares about what happens when you try to leave Islam in Iran, and the discrimination against other groups like the Copts and the Baha’i isn’t nearly as reported on.

      Israel isn’t the problem here – it’s existence, that is. The thing is, when it’s all gone, how much will you like the Palestine taking it’s place?

      Feb 11, 2012 at 2:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      @Dan: “While you bring up the difference between ‘their lives and their lands’, I think you should apply that to the Palestinians as well. In all honestly, when you do, I think you get the answer of ‘lands’. I do recognize that many Israelis are more ‘lives’ people.”
      Yes. I think so, too. That’s why it’s in the hands of the Jews to bring peace.

      “America and Europe? NO, 50% of Israeli Jews do NOT come from there. (…) you ignore the fact that many are BORN Israeli: That is their home.”
      I know that not all Israeli Jews originally come from Europe or North America. That’s why I put the word “back” in parentheses. When I inserted the word “back”, I thought of the Jewish people who once fled from here. The suggestion in my previous post was that Israeli Jews should MOVE to Europe or North America. I did not mean that Israeli Jews should RETURN to whichever country they originally came from. That was a misunderstanding. And, of course, it’s hard to leave your home country, but as far as I am concerned, I’d choose “life” over “land” at any time. Therefore, I really can’t understand why Israeli Jews don’t feel the same way. Why do they choose “land” in combination with war? That’s so irrational.

      “If you feel bad for the Palestinians, consider the people also born there too. That’s why I support a two state solution.”
      I feel bad for everyone who has to endure war, regardless of nationality or religion. As I know that my own little suggestion is very unlikely to be realised, I support a two-state solution as well. Now, we just need to convince the Israeli government.

      “Because, really, for a logical situation to work, both sides need to give up something.”
      I agree.

      “It’s true that nowadays they can find comfort in the West, but I think it’s pathetic to abandon the East like you do.”
      Why? What’s pathetic about wanting to end war and killing?

      “Atheists seem to care less about Arab atheist suffering.”
      Western countries grant asylum in cases of religious persecution.

      “The thing is, when it’s all gone, how much will you like the Palestine taking it’s place?”
      I am sorry. I don’t really understand the question.

      Feb 11, 2012 at 5:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Simon
      Simon [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @Dorothea from Germany: A German asking why Israelis (Juden, Fräulein Dorthea) need a nation home?! Ill tell you why, since are so obviously blank on history. It was to make sure Jews would never again be at the mercy of other peoples whims after the events of Holocaust!! IT WAS AFTER THE PEOPLE IN YOUR COUNTRY KILLED 5 MILLION JEWS ONLY 67 YEARS AGO, that a Jewish nation state became an imperative need. There was no asylum anywhere to be had for the German Jews…

      You say the Jews should go to Europe personally id welcome them, but antisemitism is widespread in Europe didnt you know? Jews risk attack and some have even been killed in scandinavia (backpackers and young people looking for jobs).

      You know nothing and yet you happily share your empty babble here. Shame on you. If your theories do not stand up to a test against the reality of history they are worthless

      Feb 11, 2012 at 5:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dmitriy
      Dmitriy

      @Dorothea from Germany:

      Don’t you think it’s ironic that you just compared Israel to nazi germany while israel has a 20% arab population. and yet just like Germany in the past: Palestine is basically judenrein…it’s a capital crime there to sell land to a Jew and their president has even said that no israelis shall ever live among them in the west bank.
      Of course you probably think because the word Israeli was used that this doesn’t actually equate to no Jews allowed, right??

      yeah that’s right, no Jews allowed in Judea the place that gives Jews their namesake.
      Imagine the settlers wanted to stay and become citizens of this state/rather then be uprooted, they wouldn’t be able too…

      Feb 11, 2012 at 5:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      @Simon: I am aware of German history. No need to remind me. The main point is that it is HISTORY. This shit happened many decades before I was born. It has been over for a long time. Don’t you get that?

      No, anti-Semitism is not widespread in Europe. People just don’t like how right-wing Israel is. That’s not anti-Semitism.

      “Jews risk attack and some have even been killed in scandinavia (backpackers and young people looking for jobs).”
      Some Germans have been killed in the USA a while ago. Does that mean that the USA hates Germans? No, of course not. It was a coincidence. Not every negative thing that happens to Jewish people is due to anti-Semitism.

      Feb 11, 2012 at 6:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Simon
      Simon [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @Dorothea from Germany: I specifically did not write “Your people” but “people in your country” because nearly all Germans today are innocent of those events and make no mistake i am an admirer of Germannic culture Schopenhauer, Kant, Humboldt, Jung etc etc
      But as another great German philosopher Carl von Clausewitz wrote then war is an integral part of humanity. It is present deep inside us like Jung wrote. You need to understand this. War is inevitable and we can only protect ourselves against its horrors by making it obvious that we will visit greater destruction on our enemies if they attack us than they can ever do to us.
      No treaty, no words no reason can protect man from his fellow men when their greed is awoken, only force of arms. We forget that in our world because we are so militarily strong now. May this peace last a long time, but do not get your facts upside down. Wars were not started from nationalism but because of imperialism. Not all culturally western states enjoy this safety. Israel dont. It is surrounded by enemies that would the tiny state in its birth in 1948 and have plotted its destruction since. It is no coincidence that jews no longer live in arab countries but arabs live in Israel. It is culture that makes the difference.
      Israelis are in an historically unique position because of the exeptional horrors visited on them. They MUST have a nation home and arabs must accept it.

      Feb 11, 2012 at 6:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHIP1218
      CHIP1218

      @Dorothea from Germany:

      For starters, anyone using the country Germany in their name should not be telling the Jewish Israelis to leave Israel and move back to Europe….besides, Europe isn’t doing a great job with their Muslim minority, god forbid they had a few million more Jews there…

      Secondly, Jews lived in Palestine before the creation of the State of Israel…way before. They were there during the Ottoman Empire, they were there during the Crusades, and they were there 2000 years ago when, well, we all know the story…

      The Ottomans lost World War I just like Germany, and they had to give up their conquered lands. Palestine was one of those lands. The British in 1917 states their intent to create a country for Jews in that area, but 2 years earlier they secretly agreed with the French to divide up all that land the Ottoman Empire would give up and claim it for themselves. Eventually it was decided in the UN to split up Palestine into two separate countries, this was pushed by the USA and USSR as well as the UK which had control of Palestine. After the UN agreed to a partition plan, the State of Israel declared it’s independence…and all the Arab countries around it declared war on Israel and invaded. Then those Arab countries TOOK almost all of the land that was supposed to be an independent Palestine, and treated those citizens as second class. If it wasn’t for those Arab countries putting Palestinians in refugee camps and treating them like dirt, you would never have the environment that led to the PLO and the other terrorist groups and the Munich killings and the hijackings of planes and cruise ships.

      This does not excuse the Israeli government and military for the times they have used excessive force against Palestinians. However for many years they had no organized structure, it was terrorists and terrorist organizations attacking Israel. However, if the Palestinians fellow Arab countries did not get involved in 1948 and let Israel and Palestine exist, you would not have much problems in that area of the Middle East. So in reality, its the other Arab countries that are responsible for the mess that has become the “Two State Solution.”

      Feb 12, 2012 at 12:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHIP1218
      CHIP1218

      @Dorothea from Germany:

      The only time I have heard of a German being persecuted recently in the USA was that moron who tried to burn Los Angeles to the ground one building at a time and created millions of dollars in property damage because he didn’t like the way his mom’s immigration hearing went or some crazy batshit reason like that. Maybe Germans were being persecuted a few years ago back in Detroit, but those were Daimler executives as they were fleeing Chrysler!

      Jewish people do face problems in Europe just for being Jewish. Some times it’s the Muslims living in Europe and other times it’s the Neo-Nazis and their ilk and that is only because of their religion, not because they are Israelis because 9 out of 10 times the Jew that is attacked has never lived in Israel. By the way, here’s an interesting fact about Europe. Since most countries make it severely illegal (like years and years of jail time) for displaying or even owning Nazi flags and memorabilia, European Neo-Nazis will use the flag of the Confederate States of America to signal that their business is Neo-Nazi friendly. Nothing like traveling around Europe and seeing more Confederate flags flying around in dozens of countries in Europe than I see where I currently live in South Carolina!

      Just like you seem to have insight in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, let me give you some suggestions for your own country:

      1) If the Germany of present day is so beyond its past, how about making your citizenship rules a lot more progressive? You have millions of Muslims living in your country without the ability to become German citizens, which means they cannot vote and have proper representation so they basically are second class people, not even citizens! Add in the fact that they mainly live in poorer neighborhoods or “ghettos” and you are basically repeating your past with a new minority.

      2) Stop eating people!!! Why is it that once a year I read about a German guy who was killed by an internet trick and found partially eaten! Don’t your internet sex freaks know to just rob or gay bash the guy they lure to their apartment???

      3) Stop forcing the smaller countries in the Euro zone to pay for the bailouts of Greece and its ilk. Slovakia had to contribute a sizable chunk of its GDP to participate in a bailout slush fund, like tens of thousands per person. We all know why its so important for Germany to prop up the euro, if it fails it wrecks your export industry and probably your financial industry. If the euro fails it probably does jack shit to Slovakia.

      I am sure others on here have some suggestions on how to improve the quality of democracy and foreign affairs in Germany, feel free to share!

      Feb 12, 2012 at 1:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      @CHIP1218: “Anyone using the country Germany in their name should not be telling the Jewish Israelis to leave Israel and move back to Europe”
      Why not? Can’t you distinguish between past and present?

      @CHIP1218: “Jewish people do face problems in Europe just for being Jewish.”
      Yes, that happens occasionally. I didn’t deny that there’s anti-Semitism. I said it’s not widespread. Right-wing extremists do exist, but they are a small fringe group. Also, they don’t only hate Jewish people. They hate everyone who is different from them. If I told these people that I am bisexual and a left-winger, then they would do me harm as well. What I am trying to say is this: Jewish people aren’t ALWAYS victims. And when they are victims, then they aren’t the ONLY victims.

      “European Neo-Nazis will use the flag of the Confederate States of America”
      I have never seen the Confederate flag anywhere here. The only place where I have seen this flag is in front of court houses in the former Southern States.

      “You have millions of Muslims living in your country without the ability to become German citizens.”
      That’s not true. All criteria for German citizenship are applied equally to all foreigners, regardless of their nationality or religion. If some foreigners don’t meet these criteria, e.g. because they are too lazy to learn the most basic German vocabulary, then it’s their own fault.

      “They mainly live in poorer neighborhoods or “ghettos” and you are basically repeating your past with a new minority.”
      That’s a totally outrageous claim. People who have a residence permit are free to move within Germany however they wish. There are neighbourhoods with a predominantly Muslim population, but that’s due to Muslim self-segregation.

      “Why is it that once a year I read about a German guy who was killed by an internet trick and found partially eaten!”
      That’s total bullshit and you know it.

      “Stop forcing the smaller countries in the Euro zone to pay for the bailouts of Greece and its ilk.”
      With a shared currency also come shared responsibilities. You can’t have your cake and eat it, too. Besides, no country is forced to be part of the eurozone.

      Feb 12, 2012 at 7:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      @Simon: “War is inevitable and we can only protect ourselves against its horrors by making it obvious that we will visit greater destruction on our enemies if they attack us than they can ever do to us.”
      Wow, that’s very right-wing rhetoric. I very much disapprove of that. One of my favourite sayings is, “Frieden schaffen ohne Waffen.” (= “Accomplish peace without weapons.”)

      “They MUST have a nation home and arabs must accept it.”
      It’s not in our hands whether the Arabs accept it or not. Also, you have to consider this: When there are evil people who really want to harm you, then they will find a way to do so, no matter whether you have your own country or not. Having your own country doesn’t protect you. It just makes it easier for your enemies to find you.

      Feb 12, 2012 at 9:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Simon
      Simon [Different person #2 using similar name]

      @Dorothea from Germany: It is not right-wing or left-wing it is philosophy, not politics, which is monkey business anyway (Look at politics anywhere and you will find it is silly monkey business basically). Human beings have been around for millennia and still there is war – lots of it. If peace was possible it would have come about generations ago. Just like any other species humanity must protect itself. That is the way of nature. This means that self-defense is a natural prerogative of anyone including Israel, which some people find difficult to understand, usually because of ulterior motives, but sometimes through bottomless naievity or ignorance.
      Many people want international law and order. Well look at Darfur, Sudan, Georgia, Tibet, Kurdistan and ask yourself how UN could solve these issues (without weapons lol). Add to that that Iran and China sit on the Human Rights Commission which used to be headed by Khadaffi and then ask yourself if the free world isnt better off armed to teeth…

      Feb 12, 2012 at 10:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHIP1218
      CHIP1218

      @Dorothea from Germany:

      History repeats itself, that is why you always have to look to the past. As for Germany’s past, I don’t blame a single German individual who was born after WW2, regardless what their parents or grandparents might have done. However, there are certain topics and points of view someone from Germany should keep away from publicly talking about because it’s just bad taste. Same goes for a Southerner in the USA talking about race relations and suggesting what is best for African-Americans because they obviously can’t make the correct choice for themselves.

      As for Confederate flags being posted or flying in front of a business, I have personally seen them in the following cities:

      Austria – Vienna, Salzburg
      Croatia – Split, Zadar, Zagreb
      Czech Republic – Prague, Ceske Budejovice
      Germany – Mainz, Munich
      Hungary – Budapest, Szeged
      Serbia – Novi Sad, Belgrade
      Slovakia – Bratislava

      When I spoke with American friends (both Jewish and non) about what I saw, they told me their own stories of where they saw it, many said it was waved at football events by soccer hooligans. Just google “confederate flag europe” and you will read articles about why people in Europe are using it.

      Also google gay German cannibal and you will read about two or three major trials that happened in Germany over the past few years. Yes, the USA had Jeffrey Dahmer, but that was before the internet became mainstream. These trials talk about chat rooms where men went with the sexual desire to be killed and eaten.

      As for German citizenship requirements, your country changed those laws in 2000. Before that, most states had one set of laws for Anglo-Saxon or Teutonic foreign residents (English, Scots, Irish, Nordics), and another for the others. Because the Muslims, mainly Turks and North Africans, had been in Germany via work permits for decades before the rules change for many of them it was too late to go through the process let alone gather the paperwork needed. Their children now only can become German citizens if they were born on or after January 1, 2000. Which means you have almost a generation until you have to worry about a massive Muslim voting block having representation.

      Knowing that these laws changed only 12 years ago, how can one expect that these people normalized into Germany society so quickly. Historically it usually takes at least a generation for the kids of immigrants to feel included in their adopted society, sometimes it even takes two generations. And this comes from countries that don’t have a national language.

      I am free to move around the USA as I please, but that doesn’t mean there are neighborhoods that try their best to prevent minorities from moving in. I grew up in suburban NYC, near the famous Levittown which was the first massive suburban planned community after WW2. Originally those thousands of affordable houses were built with clauses that if you purchase the home, you cannot rent to non-Whites and cannot sell to non-Whites. This was allowed until the 1960s when this was made illegal by the Civil Rights Act. Then it became an unwritten rule, if a real estate agent sold the house to a non-White family, they would never be able to sell a house in that area ever again. It wasn’t until the early 1980′s that this discrimination really disappeared – 2 generations after it started.

      I currently live in South Carolina while my European born partner finishes his PhD. I have been contacted by prospective employers that once they found out I was Jewish, told me that they cannot hire me. Guess what, it’s legal in South Carolina! If the company is a non-profit affiliated with a church or just a faith based organization they can do whatever they want when it comes to hiring as long as they don’t engage in interstate commerce. I would have to sign an affidavit that Jesus Christ is my personal lord and savior just to work at these places.

      So please stop being so naive. The world is not black and white. There is discrimination everywhere, practiced by individuals and the state, whether you live in Israel, the USA, Germany or anywhere else. Pacifism won’t solve this problem, it is too complex, and been going on for far too long. Everyone knows that diplomacy goes hand in hand with might. The Palestinians used their might with acts of terrorism that got Arafat the Oslo Peace Accords, just like the Israelis used their military might to protect their borders and prevent internal suicide/homicide attacks and got Arafat to recognize Israel’s right to exist. The problem is Israel was run by a democratically elected government, and every government after Rabin’s has recognized the Oslo Accords were signed and that there must be a two=state solution. Arafat ends up never had the full support of his people since he was never elected to represent them and they have had competing interests in leadership since his passing – Hamas (which says they never agreed to anything) and his Fatah.

      Feb 12, 2012 at 5:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dmitriy
      Dmitriy

      @Dorothea from Germany:

      850,000 Jews were also expelled from the arab world before you were born after 1948 and yet people don’t harp on this like it was the greatest trajedy in human history.
      Here’s a good suggestion, rather than people going back to where their grandparents or parents were born, how about they stay where they are?
      like the palestinians born in arab countries who magically for decades have been systematically denied citizenship in almost every single country in the middle east except jordan.

      Feb 12, 2012 at 11:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dmitriy
      Dmitriy

      @Dorothea from Germany: @Dorothea from Germany:

      850,000 Jews were also expelled from the arab world before you were born after 1948 and yet people don’t harp on this like it was the greatest trajedy in human history.
      Here’s a good suggestion, rather than people going back to where their grandparents or parents were born, how about they stay where they are?
      like the palestinians born in arab countries who magically for decades have been systematically denied citizenship in almost every single country in the middle east except jordan.

      Feb 12, 2012 at 11:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dmitriy
      Dmitriy

      @Dorothea from Germany: @Dorothea from Germany:

      Oh of course@Dorothea from Germany:
      Actually Jews experience disproportionate amounts of hate crimes in western european countries the hands of muslim immigrants in places like France and the scandinavian countries. You’re suggesting that because leftists and muslim hypocrites don’t like israel then it somehow justifies attacking Jews. Hmm why should i be suprrised, you europeans never change.

      Feb 12, 2012 at 11:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dmitriy
      Dmitriy

      @Dorothea from Germany: @Dorothea from Germany:
      e. Don’t you think that it’s totally ridiculous to risk your life for a small piece of dirty ground?

      just wondering why do your people hold on to your country?
      oh wait, because it’s your place of origin.
      Jews realized a long time ago that the germanies and russias are only for those people, and we’ve learned it the hard way. That’s why Israelis fight tooth and nail for that “small piece of dirty ground”

      Feb 12, 2012 at 11:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CBRad
      CBRad

      @WJoaquin: No, I don’t. I don’t need anything else to back it up at all. You do the searching yourself, you’ll see, if (for some unknown reason) you’re so insistant I’m wrong on that one. Or just wait for the next article on Texas. You’ll probably deny, too, that gays have called for torture and mutilation of women accused of hate crimes (who turned out to be 100 percent innocent) JUST because they lived in Kentucky. (That one is easier for me to link to, because it’s a specific case and not a broad one like texas). They would gladly do that and then dance a high-kicking lady gaga dance in glee.

      Feb 13, 2012 at 12:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • a.s
      a.s

      hey dorothea

      as a gay man and an israeli i really do appreciate the interest and knowledge you hold about the country and its nice to hear you have solid opinions about subjects ppl rarely know anything about. i think that you as a german are entitled to any opinion and being german does not exclude you from saying what you think.

      i really do have to say that it’s a little bit problematic telling a group of ppl to leave their homeland, after being persecuted basicly everywhere around the globe. you said that you do not understand the connection the jews have to that piece of land and i can honestly tell you that the link between the jews and the land of israel is deeply rooted in our identity.

      jews, were persecuted and exiled from israel thousands of years ago, several times. first time by the assyrians, then came the babylonians and then the greeks and romans.

      that’s the main reason why you find groups of jews from india all the way through europe and africa. a wide persecution happend in 1492 by the spanish inquisitian that made the large and prosperous jewish community flee to other parts of europe, mainly to the netherlands and germany and from there to other parts of eastern europe.

      all through the centeries, there was and still is, a jewish community in the cities of safad, tiberias, hebron and jerusalem in israel.

      in the middle of the 19th century, after a large and on going persecution of jews in almost every country, especially in europe, the zionist movement rose, saying the jews need to return to their homeland of israel in order to stop persecutions and give birth again to the state of israel.

      in the 1930′s, the british kingdom held authority over the entire region, after winning it in the first world war from the ottomans. they decided that the land needs to be split between the two ppl’s who were living there, the palestinians and the jews. they made several atempts calld the white books that portrayed maps of how the land should be divided. in all of the attempts the jews agreed on the terms of division and the palestinians denied. after the holocaust,the UN decided the jews probably do need a land of their own and voted on the subject. after the jewish state was eastablished, the independence war for israel started.

      it’s a never ending debate about who holds true rights on the land and i do believe it’s futile. both sides have a true claim for the same land and both sides need to understand that a solution must be made so the palestinians can live in their side and israelies on their side, hopefully as good and friendly neighbors.

      i dont think it’s a solution telling the jews to leave the land just as you’re not telling the palestinians to do the same thing. the solution is a little bit more complex..:)

      as for gay rights and the so called “cinical usage of gay rights”, the gay movement and ppl living here are fighting everyday, for years now, to get these rights and get accepted by the majority of the poulation as equals and it’s an ongoing struggle just like anywhere else. we did achieve many things and im proud of them just as i know we have still got a long road a head.

      i wish that the gov’ would use these rights as a badge of honor but that is not really the case. the coalition today of the current gov’ is made of the right wing parties and ultra orthodox jews. what you would sometimes even hear from several party members is that being gay is a desiese some still think that any gay rights are unneccesary and gays should be banned from society. so i find it hard to believe that this gov’ has a real agenda of marketing these rights.

      i do know that portraying our own struggle for decades for equal rights and acceptance in the israeli society as a small insignificant thing that’s been achieved just to hide the palestinian struggle for independence is a little bit cinical on its own…

      Feb 13, 2012 at 9:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fountouki
      Fountouki

      @a.s: First of all, thanks for your post.

      I do understand why Jewish people feel connected to this piece of land. What I don’t understand is why this connection is more important than their own lives. As much as I am connected to my home, if people tried to kill me, I would move away. My own life is more valuable to me than any piece of land. And as Dan pointed out, Israeli Jews are actually more “lives” people as well, whereas Palestinians are more “land” people. Therefore, I simply wonder why Israeli Jews don’t move away. I did NOT tell them to move away. And I did NOT say that they are not entitled to live where they live. I do think that both, Israelis and Palestinians, have a right to this piece of land. But regardless of this right, their lives should be more valuable to Israeli Jews. And retreating would be the most peaceful and least bloody solution, as Palestinians won’t give in, because they are “land” people. As a pacifist, I believe that one should avoid any sort of killing if possible.
      And yes, there is a small amount of anti-Semitism in Europe and North America, but it’s still much safer here than in the Middle East.

      This was my last post on the topic.

      Feb 13, 2012 at 12:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dorothea from Germany
      Dorothea from Germany

      @a.s: The previous post is from me. I accidentally posted it with my old user name.

      Feb 13, 2012 at 12:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • a.s
      a.s

      well, i guess that the sense of well being and safety differs between ppl.
      i find israel to be very safe and tel aviv as a home i truely love and could never replace.
      my family lives here, all of my friends are here and my bussines is also here.
      what you see through the media portraying israel as a chaotic and dangerous jungle is not the true picture of israel or the daily life here. at least not for me.

      Feb 13, 2012 at 3:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHIP1218
      CHIP1218

      @a.s:

      My mom was a big fan of an artist who’s initials are A.S. from Israel. If that is you, thank you very much for your artistry and the work you do for the community in Tel Aviv.

      Feb 13, 2012 at 11:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sassy
      Sassy

      A salute to the brave members of the Queers for Palestine group!!!

      Way to defend the TRUTH, guys.

      It should be noted that I myself am NOT a member of this glorious organization myself. However, I am a proud member of Jews for the American Nazi Party.

      Seriously, you guys, sometimes you have to forgive a little violence and persecution of your minority group and stand up for justice! Can I get an Amen?!

      —–

      All sarcasm aside – bravo to the author of this article.

      If Israel continues to support gay rights, it’s political pandering. If they didn’t, the left would have a field day accusing them of homophobia and religious bigotry. Once again, the Jews can’t win.

      When a Santorum type spews some “ew, boy on boy sex is icky, y’all!” nonsense, everyone reaches for their pitchforks. When the Muslim world tortures and hangs a man based on mere GOSSIP that he MIGHT be gay… well, surely we can’t condemn THAT. That would be religious discrimination against the poor Muslims!

      I WISH, hand to God, that Muslims would be more like radically right Evangelicals living in the Bible belt. Sure, they’d still be offensive homophobic bigots, but guess what? No one would die.

      Stop hating the religious groups that are trendy to hate. Evangelicals are homophobic nutcases. Yawn, move on. Muslims TORTURE AND MURDER homosexuals. Now is the time to speak up against legitimate injustice and drop your petty fears about being labeled a bigot. There is NOTHING bigoted about speaking out against a group that hates you with a vile passion and would celebrate your slow painful death.

      Great information here: http://markhumphrys.com/israel.defence.html

      No matter what your opinion is concerning the historical events leading up to the current situation in Israel, there is nothing – NOTHING – wrong with saying, “In Israel, I could live my life as I see fit, and the government and police force would prosecute any homophobe who dared to take issue with that. In Palestine, I would be beaten, tortured, and/or killed just for saying that I am gay. You know what? I’m gonna support Israel based on that fact alone.”

      Feb 14, 2012 at 12:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yehudah
      Yehudah

      I always find amusing that one of Jayson Littman’s “pieces” always comes out just when he is promoting another stale He’bro party.

      Good job giving space to a poorly researched piece Queerty! When will you stop pimping his trite words and lame parties? I remember why I don’t come here much anymore…

      Feb 16, 2012 at 12:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • J.Chris Kennedy
      J.Chris Kennedy

      I wish to defect to Israel cause i live in a country that is more worried about the bottom line than the people it is suppose to. please help.

      ?????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???. ????? ?????

      Mar 31, 2012 at 7:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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