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HALF-BAKED

Oregon Bakery That Refused To Serve Gay Wedding Couple Closes Shop

no-gay-cakeSweet Cakes by Melissa, a bakery in Gresham, Oregon, has shuttered its storefront after owner Aaron Klein refused to make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple.

The brides-to-be claimed Klein denied them their caked and called them an “abomination unto the Lord.” They filed a complaint with the Bureau of Labor and Industries, which launched an investigation to determine if Klein had indeed violated the law.

Under Oregon’s Equality Act of 2007, people cannot be denied service based on their sexual orientation. According to a release by the Bureau, obtained by KOIN 6 News, schools and religious groups are exempt from the law, but not private businesses. The investigation is still ongoing, but Klein and his wife Melissa closed Sweet Cakes and moved the business back into their home where they had originally started it.

A handwritten sign posted on the storefront read:

This fight is not over. We will continue to stand strong. Your Religious Freedom is becoming not Free anymore. This is ridiculous that we can not practice our faith. The LORD is good and we will continue to serve Him with all our heart.

The Kleins claim that since refusing the same-sex couple their wedding cake in January, their business has taken a 50% hit, and they’ve become victims of harassment and discrimination.

“There’s a lot of close-minded people out there that would like to pretend to be very tolerant and just want equal rights,” Klein told KATU. “But on the other hand, they’ve been very, very mean-spirited. They’ve been militant. The best way I can describe it is they’ve used mafia tactics against the business. Basically, if you do business with Sweet Cakes, we will shut you down.”

The conservative right has already condemned the “gaystapo” for “bullying” the nice Christian bakery out of business, but they seem to forget that religious freedom doesn’t give one carte blanche to discriminate. And that’s why we have the separation of Church and State — to reign in religion when it starts to impinge on the freedom of others.

That and because Jane Lynch really knows how to grind:

church-state-separate

By:           Les Fabian Brathwaite
On:           Sep 3, 2013
Tagged: , , ,
  • 123 Comments
    • AnitaMann
      AnitaMann

      Oh, please. Retail food establishments, including bakeries, have a high failure rate. When you couple a very competitive industry with business owners who make unwise marketing decisions you have a recipe for business failure, not for delicious cakes. That’s what happened here. They have nobody to blame but themselves. Besides, what they’re not telling you is that by eliminating a store front, returning to a home based model, and focusing on their religious customers they’ll probably make more money per cake sold than they did with their retail shop. I shed no tears for this couple.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 11:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the other Greg
      the other Greg

      I get the legal principle here, but are there no gay-owned bakeries in Oregon? Don’t they have the Pink Pages in Oregon?

      If I had any alternative I wouldn’t try to force my money on people who hate gays… especially on something EDIBLE that they might, you know, poison or something!

      Besides, wouldn’t gay people be better at decorating a cake? :)

      Sep 3, 2013 at 12:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Derek Williams
      Derek Williams

      Good riddance to bad rubbish.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 12:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ncman
      ncman

      @the other Greg: If businesses no longer put up signs like the old “Whites Only”, how are you supposed to know that they are anti-gay bigots unless you go in there and ask them to bake you a cake?

      If a business refused to serve me, I would take my business elsewhere. But, I would also sue them at the same time for breaking the law.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 12:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tsukasaokinawa
      tsukasaokinawa

      not that im taking their side at all but is it really necessary to lead their business to be shut down? hate on hate, eye on eye would never make the world a better place i think. they will grow (or they already have) hate on homosexuality/homosexuals more than ever. it’s way sad than the fact that the couple got refused for a goddamn cake.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 12:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      I hope this “nice” christian couple don’t think moving their bakery into their home is going to save them from the law! It is still a public business and as such MUST open their business to ALL people, gay or straight. I predict this couple’s business will finally fold and their house with it. This is one fight they will never win. Besides, they don’t sound like they use much business sense… God expects them to “do the right thing” without God’s prodding!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 1:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Texasteacher
      Texasteacher

      @ tsukasaokinawa, I don’t think the result of the suit was having the state shut down the business, the article states that they experienced a 50% reduction in business from receiving press attention as a result of their decision to refuse making a cake for a same-sex couple. I think people were just dissuaded from doing business with a bakery that applies religious scrutiny to their customers. Customers don’t expect to be measured up based on the business owner’s personal religious beliefs. No one wants to invite rejection.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 1:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Texasteacher: I think you are spot on the mark! They insulted more than the gay couple in this particular instance! And moving their business to their house will not solve the problem… in fact, that may have been their worst move!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 1:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • erasure25
      erasure25

      Why do people feel entitled to use their religion as an excuse for everything? Oh I can’t bake you a cake and sell it for profit that I will use to pay for my personal property and salary because … my religion. Nobody goes to a commercial bakery for a religious sermon. So how is religion even relevant? Shouldn’t they be giving the cakes away to the poor and needy in the form of a charity? Otherwise, how is religion even relevant?

      Sep 3, 2013 at 1:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Snapper59
      Snapper59

      What’s happening with the majority Muslim cabdrivers in Minneapolis who won’t pick up two male passengers who they even perceive to be gay? Oh right, very little. The prospective passengers could be brothers. Now don’t even bother if blind and using a guide dog. There’s a heavy organization there to protect those particular Religious morals.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 2:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      So, does this mean that the Gay, Jewish deli owner that caters the wedding HAS to serve shrimp wrapped in bacon?
      Better yet, at a straight wedding!?!?!
      Or the Muslim restaurateur has to barbecue a pig and serve coleslaw on the side at a Gay wedding reception in South Carolina?
      And you wonder why we are “targets”; we make it sooooooo easy with stupid shit like this!
      I don’t think anyone here, based on these posts, really even has a clue as to what religous freedom, or just freedom for that matter really means.
      Sad.
      Just setting us back another 50 years.
      Hurrah for me and fuck everybody else!
      Not a good way to live, Gay or straight!
      My 2 cents!
      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 2:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @erasure25:

      You are truly a sad specimen……….stupid too.
      Bet you spend a LOT of time alone.

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 2:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the other Greg
      the other Greg

      @Agnes Wilkerson: Is there a Muslim objection to coleslaw I’m unaware of, or are you just throwing in the coleslaw as an extra?

      Sep 3, 2013 at 2:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      Hi “the other Greg”!
      No connection other than that’s just how those evil folks like it down there!

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 2:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tommysole
      Tommysole

      If they had refused me service for being gay, I would not have returned there and made it known to the rest of the homo community that the place is off limits.
      I would not have filed a lawsuit, gone to the law, or made a big stink about it………….I WOULD have told everyone of my gay friends what had happened, and made it known on craigslist, and other internet postings. I also would have let it be known in all the gay establishments.
      ruining a business is the wrong way to go, it makes us look like common thugs if we don’t get our own way.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 2:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @Tommysole:

      Well…..don’t think you need to fret over that one too much (’cause you’re not)
      Gay that is.

      Silly boy, Trix are for kids!
      ; – )

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • erasure25
      erasure25

      @Agnes Wilkerson: Wow, truly you are the saddest excuse I have ever seen. Your point are not even relevant. There is a difference between serving a cuisine or dish or product vs. Serving a person. But your feeble small mind doesn’t have the capacity to understand.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      Wow, the Earth is moving beneath my feet as you babble!

      Your own words; remember when you wrote this?:
      “Why do people feel entitled to use their religion as an excuse for everything? Oh I can’t bake you a cake and sell it for profit that I will use to pay for my personal property and salary because … my religion. Nobody goes to a commercial bakery for a religious sermon. So how is religion even relevant? Shouldn’t they be giving the cakes away to the poor and needy in the form of a charity? Otherwise, how is religion even relevant?”

      Make up your mind silly puppy!

      Agnes

      P.S.: Take advantage of the spell check feature here and proof read your posts!
      Agnes ; – )

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • erasure25
      erasure25

      @Agnes Wilkerson: But let me break it down for you. No, a Jewish deli does not have to serve shrimp. A Muslim restaurant does not have to serve pig. But if you do, and you are serving them as a commercial enterprise to paying customers, you must do so in accordance with applicable commercial business laws. In Oregon, that means compliance with the anti-discrimination laws. Not sure how enforcing the laws are a terrible thing…

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • erasure25
      erasure25

      @Agnes Wilkerson: is the the best you got.. Really? No other logical argument I see… So pathetic.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Polaro
      Polaro

      @Agnes Wilkerson: Are you smart enough to dress yourself, you silly cow. Did you even think through that before you vomited it onto the Internet?

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dxley
      Dxley

      Would you people fucking stop it? We have people who already hate us and wanna see all of us dead but you’re busy here bitching, pawing and clawing at each other. Grow the fuck up. Gays unite against bigotry and support each other. You fuckheads. Shite!!!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      Hi Polaro!
      You’ve lost me with that one sweet heart?
      You’ll have to be more specific as to which “vomit” you are refereeing?

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @Dxley:

      Thank you!
      That was the point I was trying to make initially!

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Polaro
      Polaro

      @Agnes Wilkerson: The fact that you think you can walk into a bakery and make them serve you a pig. Its not the menu that is the issue, its bias. Your point has nothing to do with the issue. Your logic, like your personality, has a bad disorder. But, so nice to come visit us…troll, now return to under the bridge from where you came. Your brand of crazy has no power here, or, thankfully, Oregon.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Polaro
      Polaro

      @Agnes Wilkerson: “hat was the point I was trying to make initially!

      “The point you were trying to make initially!” Darling, you failed miserably. Take your meds.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AnitaMann
      AnitaMann

      @Agnes Wilkerson: You are an idiot. We had a fast food franchisee try to claim that his religion prevented him from offering the full range of products that our company sells. We politely had the Legal Dept. point him to his franchise agreement, a legal document that he signed, that mandated he was required to sell all menu offerings – no exceptions. His religious preferences did not afford him the ability to override his contractual obligations. Religion is not a way to avoid the law. Nice try, Agnes.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 3:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tsukasaokinawa
      tsukasaokinawa

      @Texasteacher:well, i think you clarified with no misreading the fact explained in the article(i’ve re-read it 3 times). and i in fact admit that when i first post my comment i didn’t get the contents of it right. please let me say that i just selfishly assumed that the couple did something to spread the story or sued or something, otherwise there wouldn’t be this article. Or maybe they told their friends who actually knew someone in the media industry then it was out there. Then i wonder what was the intent on it( someone might say that could be merely a gossip but i believe every act comes with an intent, deep down). maybe to punish them for what they did in business which actually is against the law or for their very wrong God hates fags belief on homosexuality? or to just correct the act of the shop owner for justice of human rights. sometimes very occasionally i think we think it’s totally okay to bash and hate on hate when it comes to gay rights…human rights while we exactly or remotely participate in noh8 campaign(just a metaphor you catch my drift) to make the world better for everyone. i’m way out of point and being prude little shit at this point and you might be like what the fuck? but i just don’t think in this case this Aaron Klein guy deserves this much public attention and the result in business even though he brought it on himself.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ChiChi Man
      ChiChi Man

      Heavens! Reading young “Agnes’s” posts is like a primer on self-hatred and poor education. The Oregon Equality Act is clear: business establishments do NOT have the right to discriminate against patrons based on their sexual orientation. So shutter your doors, bigots. You’re breaking the law. I save my pity for those who don’t denigrate people in love.

      The question was asked, but “Agnes” ignored it. What would happen if Sweet Melissa’s Nasty Cakes turned away African Americans? Do LGBT people deserve to be treated with less respect? Do you actually believe this? Is it so hard to expect fair treatment? To demand it?

      Finally, what does freedom of religion have to do with selling a cake? The couples aren’t asking for sex. They’re buying a cake. Find one verse in the magic-sky-daddy-book that mentions conducting business with LGBT people. You won’t find it. But you will find Jesus instructing followers to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 2eo
      2eo

      Fantastic, every bigot whose beliefs are kicked to the side of society because they hurt others is a triumph for society.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Larkin
      Larkin

      @tsukasaokinawa: Many of those in support of the bakeries religious discrimination as ‘religious freedom’ claimed, when the story broke, that the market itself can figure it out.

      Looks like the market has spoken.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @erasure25:

      You’re not “breaking down” anything.
      First, you spew out the ignorant statement that religion is irrelevant.
      Once called on how silly that was, you want to come back and make a pretty sad attempt at a “position”.
      The WHOLE STORY is and was about how people react to other people and the involvement of ALL people’s RELIGIOUS RIGHTS.
      And I do not think it’s good for anyone, GAY or Straight, to have the STATE determining how the separation of church and state is to be interpreted.
      The STATE is actually supposed to STAY OUT of the conversation same as “where your nose goes when the doors close”
      By interpreting and enforcing things, the STATE is actually endorsing a religion, their own!
      Fortunately, for the moment anyway, most of them want our vote
      You can’t “respect” an ideology that requires women to cover their faces for example (just using this one because it’s a popular one today, especially with all the insanity going on in the Middle East) in the name of “diversity” and “cultural sensitivity” and then turn around and burn a couple who’s “religion” doesn’t include YOUR personal orientation.
      Hating on them is NO DIFFERENT than Palestinians and Israelis going at it, based simply on an ORIENTATION.
      My point is that the couple should have just said “F them” and bought their cake somewhere else!
      And like someone else said, they probably could have supported a GAY OWNED business to boot!
      But no, it’s the “look at me” show!
      All the channels, all the time.
      NO MATTER WHO ELSE SUFFERS
      Like I said “hurrah for me………”
      At (what is SUPPOSED to be) the most important time of their life, they want to stage their own Jerry Springer Show.

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      First, stop putting words in my mouth; things I did NOT say.

      Secondly, listen to yourself and then talk to me about bias honey!

      And I am “crazy” because I don’t agree with you!

      Some of you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO funny! (mixed up little brain washed zombies)it’s very very sad ; – (

      Agnes

      The fact that you think you can walk into a bakery and make them serve you a pig. Its not the menu that is the issue, its bias. Your point has nothing to do with the issue. Your logic, like your personality, has a bad disorder. But, so nice to come visit us…troll, now return to under the bridge from where you came. Your brand of crazy has no power here, or, thankfully, Oregon.

      Full story here: http://www.queerty.com/oregon-bakery-that-refused-to-serve-gay-wedding-couple-closes-shop-20130903/#ixzz2drahj71j

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tsukasaokinawa
      tsukasaokinawa

      @Larkin: hmm, totally true…

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tsukasaokinawa
      tsukasaokinawa

      can i just say “your tone seems very pointed right now”

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      NICE with the name calling here!
      Is that all part of your “tolerant” attitudes?

      But since we’re talking idiots, idiot, the couple did not enjoy a contract with the bakery. You can’t cull from legal examples simply the part you need to ATTEMPT to make your apples and oranges point.

      “The Law”, spoken like a true product of our public schools and too much TeeVee

      You are an idiot. We had a fast food franchisee try to claim that his religion prevented him from offering the full range of products that our company sells. We politely had the Legal Dept. point him to his franchise agreement, a legal document that he signed, that mandated he was required to sell all menu offerings – no exceptions. His religious preferences did not afford him the ability to override his contractual obligations. Religion is not a way to avoid the law. Nice try, Agnes.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • apollosmom
      apollosmom

      I find it interesting that this is yet another case of someone breaking the law (the bakery) and then blaming everyone else when they fail. They need to take responsibility for their stance. One can practice one’s religion all they want, but when you mix your religion with your business, you have to be prepared for whatever happens next. These people were not prepared to do anything else except play the victim card when they showed their bigotry.

      And BTW, yes, a gay-owned bakery would most certainly make a much more fabulous cake!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @apollosmom:

      I’m missing something here
      I’ve read 1/2 a dozen accounts of this story
      Don’t play innocent or righteous here; how many careers have been ruined as a result of sexual harassment allegations, whether they were true or no?
      Legal fees? Social media?
      Is it possible to stay on track here?
      Apparently not

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EvonCook
      EvonCook

      Religion, at least monotheisms, should remain behind closed doors in one’s home or as far up one’s as as it can be forced. Multi deity religions tend to be much more tolerant, generous and much less oppressive and hate oriented.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve Rider
      Steve Rider

      Did anyone else notice the powerful scent of martyrdom in Mr Klein’s sour grapes message?

      That seems to be the new ploy for Christians who find themselves being asked to obey the same laws as rational people, they go directly to martyrdom.

      Mr Klein was the person who acted in an intolerant, unethical and illegal fashion, yet he wants to whine that he is suffering when in fact he is the perpetrator of any harm in this case.

      I hope he enjoys his martyrdom, he bravely defended the Sanctity of Bigotry.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dvlaries
      dvlaries

      Good. They weren’t asked to the bless the marriage, they were asked to make a goddamn cake.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bad Ass Biker
      Bad Ass Biker

      “Close minded”? “Mean spirited”? “Militant people out there”? It sounds as if they could be describing themselves.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 2eo
      2eo

      YEAH YOU GUYS, HUMAN BEINGS DEMANDING EQUAL TREATMENT UNDER THE LAW AND HUMAN DECENCY ARE LITERALLY EXACTLY LIKE NAZI GERMANY FOR INFRINGING HIS MORONIC SKY MAN BELIEFS.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ZeeZee
      ZeeZee

      GOD BLESS CAKES (and cookies, too)!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tsukasaokinawa
      tsukasaokinawa

      @Agnes Wilkerson: uh sorry if im wrong but since you didnt @ anyone when you said
      “NICE with the name calling here!
      Is that all part of your “tolerant” attitudes?’
      was it referring me? cuz i only said “calm down”
      just wanna know

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      How many of you (us) here are worried about the “Law” when you smoke weed?
      One thing I have had to endure my entire life as a gay man was our “community’s” fucking OUTRAGEOUS hypocrisies and “not in my backyard” (no pun intended ; – ) attitudes.

      For the most part, not always

      You screaming babies make me appreciate more and more REAL men (and brilliant minds) like Truman Capote

      Most of these posts sound like they were made by hysterical little middle class twinks who think Perez Hilton is a “role model”

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BlogZilla
      BlogZilla

      OMG! Really Now? He freakin’ makes cakes and pastries for a living, (not exactly the most masculine of professions) and he’s afraid to make cakes for a gay couple??? If it was a couple of hot lesbians getting married he’s roll out the red carpet.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @ChiChi Man:

      “Find one verse in the magic-sky-daddy-book that mentions…………..”

      Nice
      Spoken like a true intellectual

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Teleny
      Teleny

      @the other Greg: lol, I’m funny about who touches my food anyway so even if they made the cake chances are one of the ingredients would be Christian spit or urine. I would find a glbt business or one run by an ally.

      I also wonder if the Christians had been nice and conveyed their feelings in a non insulting way and suggested another bakery if they wouldn’t have brought so much shame on themselves.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pauleky
      pauleky

      @Agnes Wilkerson: Much better than the anti-intellectual Bible, though.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      See, things like this just kill me:

      “And that’s why we have the separation of Church and State — to reign in religion when it starts to impinge on the freedom of others.”

      No it’s not. The separation of church and state in this Country was (intended) to insure that no STATE RELIGION be adopted or created, to the exclusion of all others.

      AND THAT’S IT (do a little reading on the subject) THAT’S THE EXTENT OF IT

      The media, activist judges and popular myth has made it what it is perceived to be today.

      Sorry, those are just the facts

      And NO ONE has made note of the fact that Oregon EXEMPTED schools! Maybe to avoid litigation perhaps?

      I mean, you think straights have an exclusive claim to opportunistic shit bags?

      You should be able to share your penis, and or your cakes, with who ever you want to of legal age of consent, without the governments help or guidance.

      Someone doesn’t want to share the penis or the cake, find someone that does.

      Grow up.

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • yaoming
      yaoming

      Don’t forget – this is the bakery that will bake a cake celebrating divorce, the pagan solstice, and stem cell research, as reported in The Advocate:

      http://www.advocate.com/latest-news/2013/05/30/bakery-will-do-pagan-cloning-and-divorce-cakes-not-gay-weddings

      …so they’re obviously just picking and chosing gays getting married to be outraged about. Why? BECAUSE THEY’RE BIGOTS.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @pauleky:

      “Much better than the anti-intellectual Bible, though.”

      How so? And PLEASE don’t give me the dumb ass “George Carlin” sounding version that’s making the rounds.

      Explain to me your own thought on why you find the Bible so “anti-intellectual”

      I am certain you have read and studied it from cover to cover, yes?

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LubbockGayMale
      LubbockGayMale

      @tsukasaokinawa: When I read the story, it sounds like the owner CHOSE to shut down the store and work out of his home… he wasn’t forced to. And if an establishment is violating state law, it needs to be reported ASAP!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @yaoming:

      I’m waiting for someone to sue me because I will NOT eat pussy, under ANY circumstance!

      How’s THAT for picking and choosing!

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robho3
      robho3

      Don’t fuck with the gays we will cut you!!!!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 5:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sebbie3000
      sebbie3000

      @Agnes Wilkerson: You seem to be coming from a very angry place. And a not terribly educated one. Here is a page that might help you understand the case, and why you are actually in the wrong here. It’s super easy to use Google to become more educated nowadays…
      http://www.oregon.gov/boli/CRD/pages/c_crprotoc.aspx

      Sep 3, 2013 at 6:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tardis
      tardis

      He should continue his holy crusade with Red Lobster, clothing companies, divorce lawyers.

      What is up with this guy’s mentalities? What a troubled, confused individual. He has the audacity to do the “360 intolerant of intolerant people.” What a sheep, man. Isn’t God loving and whatnot? I mean Jesus hung out with a prostitute!

      There’s no changing their minds though. Hate is hate and they will hate.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 6:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • loren_1955
      loren_1955

      A bit stunned with a number of the comments here suggesting that gays should take this kind of behavior and graciously let it go and move on. I don’t believe that responding to bigotry and hatred negatively makes me a bigot and hater. I don’t have compassion for the persecutor being caught and now whining they are the persecuted. (another example Orson Scott Card and the LDS Church/Prop8.) Bigotry is evil, yet bundled in religion to justify hatred is reprehensible.

      As a gay man, I desire to live in a culture/society that no matter what public business I go to I know I am safe in giving them business without fear for myself and loved ones having to experience hatred and intolerance. Personally, I believe those that try to hide their hatred behind religion are cowards. These people that owned the bakery are cowards and law breakers. I have no more compassion for them than had they done the same to any other minority group. My having no compassion does not make me a hater, what it says is I recognize my value and self-worth in the face of small minded hateful people.

      I don’t condone violence or threats. If our community did any of that shame on us. On the other hand, we, our friends, and our families have no obligation to support haters and bigots.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 6:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HLWNYC10011
      HLWNYC10011

      @Agnes Wilkerson: I know a little something about Koshrish (Kosher laws which are the same as Halel). An establishment that is Kosher (for Jewish) or Hallel, must have posted that they are a Kosher establishment. This bakery is not being asked to bake a wedding cake any different than any other, except instead of a man and a woman on the top of the cake, there would be two Brides.

      If I went to a Kosher food establishment and I wanted them to cater my wedding (and I am gay and Jewish), they cannot refuse. The only time they can refuse is if I ask them to serve something UnKosher(traif). When you own a business, you keep your personal beliefs outside the establishment. The business (in this case the bakery), is not being asked to perform a wedding service, only to bake a Wedding cake. If I walked in and asked for a wedding cake with nothing on top of it, and I choose to put the figures on the cake myself, they would still probably refuse because in the normal banter of a converstation I would probably bring up something about my mate, who happens to be another male.

      Agnes you are comparing “Apples to bannanas” when talking about a kosher establishment providing non kosher food for any affair and a baker who is just baking and decorating a cake, using the same ingredients as any other cake. They aren’t preforming any other serive other than baking and decorating a cake, which happens to be a WEDDING CAKE!!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Swallower
      The Swallower

      This is wonderful, being a bigot should cost you your livelihood.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 6:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Agnes Wilkerson: YOU… are waaaaaaaay out of your league. This is the USA… majority rules, remember? Something tells me you will not be married too soon! Attitude! Work on your attitude!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 6:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Agnes Wilkerson: Actually erasure25 is right on the mark! You and Dxley seem to be evil twins, lolol (Which one of you is the female, or are you still arguing over that?! ;-). Sober up before you embarrass yourselves further through you comments. Thank you!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 7:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tsukasaokinawa
      tsukasaokinawa

      @LubbockGayMale: yes i got the whole(ok maybe not whole) thing now and you’re right. let me correct my comment. they(the shop) so deserve the national attention to it. just watched this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNQfTLH0gfM

      Sep 3, 2013 at 7:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ronavila
      ronavila

      “The brides-to-be claimed Klein denied them their caked and called them an “abomination unto the Lord.”
      Did you miss that part lady?
      Every business owner needs to be aware of the law. In the public market WE do not discriminate. I don’t, you don’t, he doesn’t, she doesn’t. That’s the law regardless of your superstitions (which you certainly are entitled to have). Don’t like it? Go private. That’s what the haters are doing in this case.
      BTW can you show me the biblical passage that says “thou shalt not bake a wedding cake for lesbians? It just might be in there with a widow marrying her brother in law, not eating mollusks and shellfish, women forbidden to cut their hair etc. ad nauseam. Love Jesus, run from kkkristens.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 7:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @HLWNYC10011:

      Hi!
      Thank you for the thoughtful post, but you missed my point. I was trying to illustrate the absurd with the absurd.
      My inspiration was the fool or fools that insisted religious beliefs and faiths were irrelevant, as if there could never be a legitimate conflict between someone’s faith and the “law”.
      In other words, respect and understanding is a two way street if it is genuine.

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 7:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @ronavila:
      Wow, such an open mind.
      Please stop referencing Christianity or the Law
      You do not know shit about either one.

      What are you with the “KKK” deal? 12 years old? Still live with your Mom?

      Agnes

      Sep 3, 2013 at 8:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • boring
      boring

      Everybody say it with me now: OH, THAT GRESHAM.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 8:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MK Ultra
      MK Ultra

      Many people have fought and died for the LGBT rights that we enjoy today. They were brought down by the same bigotry that these malicious bakery owners have displayed. That’s why, we must fight bigotry and discrimination at every level.
      That bigotry demands we respect it if we want respect. Yet, it degrades us, dehumanizes us, demands of us what it wouldn’t want demanded of itself. We ask to live as openly and genuinely as any citizen expects for himself (which is our right). Bigotry demands we castrate ourselves, hide in the shadows, and deny ourselves the basic rights that it, itself enjoys.
      Respect and understanding is a two way street, indeed!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 8:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredhotman
      fredhotman

      Self righteous religious bigots motto: Don’t discriminate against me, God has given me the right to discriminate against you (gay’s). What hypocrites.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 8:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lawerence
      Lawerence

      These soulless zombie Rethuglican sheeple are totally shameless, ignorant, hypocritical and demonic!
      Where are all the comments about these frauds where they were more than willing to
      make cakes for divorces, stem cell research, out of wedlock babies, ect! They got what they deserved!
      I only hope what I read on another thread is true, that they must run their in home shop according to all
      The laws. I’m so tired of these subhumans playing the victim!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 8:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @ncman: You most certainly have the right approach. Take your business elsewhere but sue them for violation of anti-discrimination laws.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 9:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • queerty1958
      queerty1958

      Where in the Bible does it say that making a cake is an abomination anyway? :-)

      Sep 3, 2013 at 9:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GlitterKidder
      GlitterKidder

      What’s their home address, I’ve always wanted to taste a Hate infused cupcake. Yum-o!

      Sep 3, 2013 at 10:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jmmartin
      jmmartin

      Notice what the guy has on the wall of his bakery behind him at the counter? That’s right, crosses. Make no mistake about it, these people are God-fearing folk. Their God tells them being gay is “an abomination unto God” and this dogma allows them to discriminate and be as homophobic as they like. The same can be said about their position on women’s reproductive rights. Scratch a so-called Pro-lifer and you see a fundamentalist (or Catholic) religious nut. There can be no justification for one’s fears and superstitions about lgbt-queer people and abortion if not theological. Otherwise, they are just that: fear and superstition.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 10:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DCFarmboi
      DCFarmboi

      they are stupid two ways.

      1. Somehow they think it is wrong that half of their customers stop doing business with them because they don’t like homophobes, but it okay from them to stop doing business with gays.

      2. There is nothing in Christianity that says it is a sin to sell a pastry to a homo. Sorry, they have no religious freedom issue here because the Christian religion doesn’t bind them on this matter. Find another excuse for your bigotry.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 10:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • keep it real
      keep it real

      BYE……

      Sep 3, 2013 at 11:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ronavila
      ronavila

      @Agnes Wilkerson: I’m sorry you feel you must resort to personal attack. You know nothing about me except my opinion on what passes for “christianity” these days. On the other hand I can see by your reply what you are.

      Sep 3, 2013 at 11:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ronavila
      ronavila

      @Agnes Wilkerson: sometimes religious beliefs are irrelevant as in non-discrimination based on race, RELIGION, country of origin, sex, sexual orientation and gender.- justice is blind, as it should be. In this case the law of the State of Oregon was violated. I believe God won this one!

      Sep 4, 2013 at 12:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @ronavila: Thank you, ronavila! Spot on the mark!

      Sep 4, 2013 at 12:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TLCTugger
      TLCTugger

      How can these bakers worship a god so feeble He needs their help to judge people?

      Sep 4, 2013 at 12:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WanderSon66
      WanderSon66

      And the pendulum continues to swing the other way…. These are truly sad times for the free-minded, individual rights people in Oregon (and elsewhere). The Kleins are just more victims of the intolerant gay bullies that view their way as the only way, their values as the only good values. Oregon’s ‘Equality Act’ enforces oppression, not equality or fairness.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 12:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @WanderSon66: Oppression has nothing to do with this. The Kleins knew the laws… they made a bad decision and are paying the price for that decision. It has nothing to do with those po’ lil’ chris-chuns’ rights. Enough with the faux ‘victim’ card!
      Dakotahgeo, M.Div. Pastor/Chaplain/Civil Rights teacher.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 12:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lawerence
      Lawerence

      Agnes Wilkerson! I would imagine you one of those demonic soulless zombie sheeple! Why do you hate Jesus do much? Why are you on a gay web site spewing ignorace?

      Sep 4, 2013 at 1:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Faggot
      Faggot

      @Snapper59: Just be glad you live in a country where there is a separation of church and state where cabbies aren’t allowed to do that. However, they would be able to discriminate if they were living back in an Islamic republic. North Americans live in a secular state and many “religious” people do not understand what that means.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 2:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rubin
      Rubin

      I love how all these people who choose to discriminate against fellow humans are in fact passing judgement on others which is something reserved for the very higher power they hold so dear. I may be wrong but shouldn’t we love thy neighbor especially in hopes to diminish the amount of hate in this world?

      Once you open a business it becomes public domain and to refuse business solely due to religious beliefs you damning yourself for failure. Not only because you just lowered your clientele but because you are openly discriminating against a specific group word of it gets around and business is spread by word of mouth. If they want to quote from days of old I’m pretty sure that every brown person that comes in they tell them they are going to hell because that’s the type of people they are coming off as. If not then they keep their traps shut because they want their money in order to continue being a business.

      Also it’s not the same as having say an Indian Butcher that refuses to butcher cattle. That’s just one less thing they have available on their menu. I’m pretty sure they still have chicken or pork or what have you. They are not going out of their way to say if you’re not hindu or sihk or whatever to leave their shop. Business is business that’s that.

      In my opinion if they were to refuse me service based on the gay aspect I would be upset but I would go somewhere else. They simply lost my business as well as any recommendations I could have given on their behalf. However the second they outright called them an abomination the couple had every right to take this as far as they did. We may be gay but we’re people with emotions as well. Humans of flesh and blood just like everyone else. No one group of people is superior to another, that is simply a state of mind that’s been passed down from the narrow minded figure heads of our past.

      Also if you really think about it do you think god would allow such hate filled people into his kingdom? So can’t we just get along and make each other’s short time on this earth as pleasant as we can for one another? When the time comes let the powers that be pass judgement as they have been ordained to.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 2:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CM79
      CM79

      Would anyone expect a gay baker to make a cake for the Westboro Baptist Church?

      Would anyone expect a black baker to agree to make a cake for a white supremacist group?

      It’s hilarious that the gay community wants to force a business that is against gay marriage to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Why would you want to force someone who’s against you to make your FOOD? Yeah, they’ll make you a cake for your gay wedding alright, and top it off with a tablespoon of urine in the frosting…

      Sep 4, 2013 at 2:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Faggot
      Faggot

      @WanderSon66: You are proposing an oxymoron while simultaneously exposing your inability to understand legislation. People do not have special rights when those “rights” are illegal. Illegal rights do not exist. Do you understand that Oregon is in the USA, a secular state (country) where the separation of church and state (nation) exists?

      Yes, many gay bullies exist, as do so-called “liberal” or self-proclaimed “left-wing” people who may bully others if they do not see and act exactly as they do (they may even have little understanding of LGBT, liberal, and leftist history and politics). However, the law does exists, and if someone doesn’t like the law, he or she must still abide by it, or he or she could always try to change it. Until then, citizens can demand that laws be enforced, which isn’t always the same as bullying.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 2:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • madpmadashell
      madpmadashell

      That’s exactly what he gets for being hateful. And WTF is a good jewish boy named Aaron Klein doing battin for the f*ckin christians? See he’s getting the ‘smack-down’ from the god of Abraham. See what kind bullshit that these mythical gods and phony religions cause?

      Sep 4, 2013 at 3:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      AAAWWWWWW poor baby we as gay men & women have dealt with the religious right’s bashing, bigotry & discrimination for as long as I can remember. When we make our voices heard & NO LONGER stand by & take it, they whine like a bunch of SPOILED CHILDREN.
      ABJECT LESSON;
      DON’T SCREW WITH US!!!
      WE ARE STRONG,
      WE WILL NOT BACK DOWN ANYMORE!
      WE WILL MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD,
      WE WILL STAND TOGETHER!!!
      To those that CONTINUE to exert their BIGOTRY…
      YOU WILL PAY THE PRICE!
      WE ARE HERE ~ WE ARE GAY ~ DEAL WITH IT ~ WE ARE NOT GOING AWAY!
      WE ARE HERE TO STAY!
      If you DON’T like it, that is YOUR problem NOT OURS!

      Sep 4, 2013 at 6:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      We’re here, we’re Queer, get used to it.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 8:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lawerence
      Lawerence

      Great cartoon posted someplace of a man tied to a cross, struggling with the townsfolk that are trying to burn him alive. The caption from the townsfolk, “stop struggling! You’re oppressing our religious freedom!”
      I think that just about sums up all these demonic soulless zombie sheeple frauds!

      Sep 4, 2013 at 8:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Michael: LOLOL… thanks, Michael, I love it!

      @1EqualityUSA: Thanks, 1EqualityUSA!

      Sep 4, 2013 at 9:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hyhybt
      hyhybt

      @Agnes Wilkerson: Have we met before? Your attempted comparison between selling a cake to *people* they don’t like and selling food made of offensive *ingredients* is awfully familiar, and I’ve only run into one person who would even attempt such nonsense.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 9:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @hyhybt: Believe me, “Agnes Wilkerson” has been here and on other blogs under many other assumed names. One doesn’t find many twisted panties like this gal/guy very often. She/he is a hoot! A mere comedian, and not a good one at that, but one gets what they pay for.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 10:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Thomathy
      Thomathy

      2eo, it’s Americans arguing (a stretch to call it that, perhaps) about freedoms, rights and religion. I really shouldn’t expect much of it to be intelligent or meaningful, so all-caps mocking of Agnes Wilkerson seems just about right to me. However, there are gems that merit a little more response than a Godwin, apropos though it may be.

      Gems, like these:

      No it’s not. The separation of church and state in this Country was (intended) to insure that no STATE RELIGION be adopted or created, to the exclusion of all others.

      AND THAT’S IT (do a little reading on the subject) THAT’S THE EXTENT OF IT

      Agnes here has clearly done his research on the US’s Constitution. He knows the Establishment Clause and its exact intent and legal interpretation. Agnes clearly knows, for instance, that the Establishment Clause was included in order to quell the fears of minority faiths in the US who had previously been discriminated against due to the establishment of State religions, such as the Church of England in Virginia. And that the interpretation of the Establishment Clause to that effect has been used to enforce the Free Exercise Clause, whereby Congress will make no law prohibiting the exercise of any faith. Or he does not, because I’m baffled by the mention of two things, ‘or created’ and ‘to the exclusion of all others,’ but perhaps Agnes has access to additional text not included in the Constitution.

      But the matter of the First Amendment is irrelevant anyhow, as it pertains to the State in relation to citizens, not citizens in relation to each other. For that, it’s better to look at civil rights legislation. And the pertinent bit of legislation here would be the Oregon civil rights laws as enforced by the Civil Rights Division of the Bureau of Labor and Industries (of Oregon). The legislation has an impenetrable name, as these state laws tend to, but let it suffice that the part about protected classes and discrimination are contained here and that the couple at the bakery would no more be legally able to discriminate against a practitioner of Buddhism than against a gay person. As is often the case with civil rights laws, one person’s rights end where another person’s rights begin and a private enterprise, providing goods and services that is not also an exclusive club or a protected institution, must serve everyone.

      And NO ONE has made note of the fact that Oregon EXEMPTED schools! Maybe to avoid litigation perhaps?

      Actually, schools aren’t exempted, just religious schools.

      From the text of the legislation at the previous link:

      659A.006 Declaration of policy against unlawful discrimination; opportunity to obtain employment without unlawful discrimination recognized as a civil right; exception of religious group.

      (4) It is not an unlawful employment practice for a bona fide church or other religious institution, including but not limited to a school, hospital or church camp, to prefer an employee, or an applicant for employment, of one religious sect or persuasion over another if:

      (5) It is not an unlawful employment practice for a bona fide church or other religious institution to take any employment action based on a bona fide religious belief about sexual orientation:

      I don’t think anyone is avoiding litigation by not mentioning something that isn’t true and was misreported, but Agnes must just be mistaken.

      You should be able to share your penis, and or your cakes, with who ever you want to of legal age of consent, without the governments help or guidance.

      Someone doesn’t want to share the penis or the cake, find someone that does.

      Hey! Wasn’t someone being a Grammar Nazi earlier? I must be mistaken, because surely a sentence like that couldn’t have been constructed by someone who admonishes another about using a spell checker.

      In any case, cakes and penises aren’t equivalent. I’m pretty sure genitalia aren’t a good or service (even if it were legal to sell sex) and surely bodily integrity …actually, does anyone know when an analogy is just so bad it shouldn’t be pursued or even corrected? Agnes here has provided the perfect example of a broken analogy. Avoid comparing things that aren’t comparable, like selling a wedding cake and sharing your penis. (And always get consent before doing either, for various, but not mutually exclusive, reasons.)

      See, 2eo, it was fun not to dismiss Agnes out of hand. And I think there was a valuable lesson to be learned about penis sharing. It’s like a teachable moment and those are rare in comment threads.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 11:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Thomathy: I’m impressed… now it’s time to move on, thank you! Comments noted and dismissed.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      What a weird group of comments here. I love the people that are somehow trying to say “Gee, we shouldn’t have shut down their business”.

      Ok, let me explain something to you trolls defending this business.

      1. This business was operating under a public business license, as such they had to abide by public laws.

      2. Are you saying that gays should have gone to this business that hates us because they don’t deserve to be put out of business? Why should gays be forced to go there while ignoring all of the gay friendly businesses out there?

      These folks decided to bank on the bigots supporting them and guess what…they didn’t.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 12:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WanderSon66
      WanderSon66

      @Dakotahgeo and Faggot – No oppression? The ‘equality’ law itself is a type of oppression. No bullying? The people who proposed, supported and enacted the law are the bullies.

      I am gay, support gay marriage, am an atheist, and I don’t support what the Kleins did. But, what kind of a person would I be if I dictated how the Kleins run their business or who they sell their cakes to (however ill-advised)? Answer: an oppressive bully. Business is (should be) a transaction of mutual agreement – you can’t force me to buy something (obamacare notwithstanding) and I can’t force you to sell me something…the terms have to be mutually agreeable. Further, buying a cake is not a right (natural, civil or human).

      Separation of church and state?! How does this even come into play? The bakery is a private business, not a government entity!

      Finally, while I don’t know the specific requirements of the Oregon law, I suspect that if the Kleins offered to sell the gay couple a cake, but didn’t offer same-sex toppers (or whatever else made it a gay wedding cake), then they wouldn’t have violated the law.

      That is all.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 12:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      All laws are oppressive in some way; all laws PROTECT the larger majority. Sorry, but these people knew the laws before they opened their business, and if they didn’t, they should have! Ignorance will not save one from prosecution. If one cannot abide by the rules, don’t play! In essence, just because they moved their business to their home/house does NOT exclude them from the same state law! They are still selling their business to the public.
      ——————————–
      “Business is (should be) a transaction of mutual agreement – you can’t force me to buy something (obamacare notwithstanding) and I can’t force you to sell me something…the terms have to be mutually agreeable. Further, buying a cake is not a right (natural, civil or human).”

      Bull puckey!!! If somebody asked me to sign a mutual agreement to make me a cake, I will guarantee neither I nor any other normal person would give that business the time of day and THEY would also be shuttered in like manner as this bakery!

      Your comments/arguments are waaaay off the mark. Bake your own cake!

      Sep 4, 2013 at 1:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ronavila
      ronavila

      @CM79: @CM79: the “gay community” isn’t forcing anyone to do anything. The state deals with law breakers.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 1:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @Dakotahgeo:

      Hi!
      If you are such a big believer in “majority rule” then how do you explain the outcome with Prop 8?
      Didn’t that pass with an overwhelming MAJORITY? (60%+), bad as that was?
      Or does “majority rule” only apply when the majority rules YOUR way (the way you want it to?)
      You can’t have it both ways (spout off about democracy) and not be a hypocrite.
      What would your argument/position be if the Court had ruled AGAINST Gays?
      Some of you are as bad as the homophobic bigots, just as bigoted, different target.
      Disrespectful of others too.
      We will never win this way, a true victory where orientation doesn’t matter one way or the other.
      Don’t preach “democracy/majority rule” unless you are willing to live with the consequences and be intellectually honest about it.

      Agnes

      You wrote:
      YOU… are waaaaaaaay out of your league. This is the USA… majority rules, remember? Something tells me you will not be married too soon! Attitude! Work on your attitude!

      Sep 4, 2013 at 1:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @Thomathy:

      Hi!
      Thank you for all of the attention!
      I am “offended” by the use of the term “grammar Nazi” however! ; – )
      I am only Human, and yes, I often make “mistakes” in the heat of it all.
      I also post “conversationally” in style and do not spend an hour composing a post to impress others with the facts of how intelligent and quick witted (glib) I am!
      (you feel better (superior) now?) Got your “fix” for the day?
      I do “Thank You!” for sharing with others the details of what “separation of church and state” truly means.
      Good job!

      Agnes

      Sep 4, 2013 at 1:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @WanderSon66: said…

      “I am gay, support gay marriage, am an atheist, and I don’t support what the Kleins did. But, what kind of a person would I be if I dictated how the Kleins run their business or who they sell their cakes to (however ill-advised)? Answer: an oppressive bully.

      ________________________

      I can always tell the fake trolls who come in here because they always say something like “As a gay man……..” or “I am an lesbian and I think…”

      We all know who we are, only a liar would come in here and feel that they need to define that.

      Additionally, if the owners of that bakery want to run their business with a public business license, using taxpayer supported infrastructure, then they absolutely have to follow the public laws. Their business is being supported by infrastructure paid for by my tax dollars, they must follow the laws put forth by their jurisdiction.

      You claim that dictating how they run their business makes you an oppressive bully and yet you are stating that gays and lesbians are not allowed to boycott the business. Sorry but Capitalism allows people to shop where they want to. These folks didn’t shut down because the govt. forced them to. These folks shut down because people in their area chose not to shop there. That is freedom and Capitalism. You are trying to force people to shop there. THAT is oppression.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 3:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Thomathy
      Thomathy

      @Agnes Wilkerson:

      Thank you for all of the attention!

      No.

      I am “offended” by the use of the term “grammar Nazi” however! ; – )

      What?

      I am only Human, and yes, I often make “mistakes” in the heat of it all.

      I have never doubted that you are human; I was pointing out obvious hypocrisy.

      I also post “conversationally” in style and do not spend an hour composing a post

      You think that took an hour?

      to impress others with the facts of how intelligent and quick witted (glib)

      What, you forgot how to use those inverted commas?

      I am!

      You’re easily impressed, then.

      (you feel better (superior) now?) Got your “fix” for the day?

      You rediscovered the inverted commas!

      I do “Thank You!” for sharing with others the details of what “separation of church and state” truly means.
      Good job!

      Umm …What are you trying to convey with those inverted commas?

      @Dakotahgeo:

      I’m impressed… now it’s time to move on, thank you! Comments noted and dismissed.

      You’ve lost me. Are you dismissing my comment? Funny you should reply, then.

      all laws PROTECT the larger majority.

      They don’t. Civil rights laws protect minorities. The first line of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the US was included exactly to protect minorities. You’re impressed by my comment, but you didn’t bother to read it? Well, it was long.

      @WanderSon66:

      I am gay, support gay marriage, am an atheist,

      All irrelevant. Does being atheist make you a special snowflake? I’m atheist, is there something peculiar to atheists that I should know about?

      and I don’t support what the Kleins did.

      Oh good. They were awful, discriminatory people.

      But, what kind of a person would I be if I dictated how the Kleins run their business or who they sell their cakes to (however ill-advised)? Answer: an oppressive bully

      Wrong answer. You’d be a decent person. I’d ask the obvious rhetorical wherein you imagine the buyer is black, but I for some reason can’t imagine that you’d find a problem with denying a person business based on their race.

      You’re abusing the term bully and you don’t know the meaning of oppression. Gays are largely still oppressed in the US. They are the bullied, by any reasonable definition, and are discriminated against. Literally, they face a form of oppression due to their sexual orientation. It does not amount to bullying to expect a business to serve people regardless of their immutable characteristics (and some others not so immutable), to call attention to the actions of that business and its owners or employees, to boycott it and to expect it to meet the force of law for violating it. Bullying is what the owners did.

      Where exactly do you suppose those women should have drawn the line on their own rights? Should gays just cower before those who would discriminate against them? There must be some balance amongst the rights of everyone, and civil rights attempt to address that balance. A concise approach, as ennumerated in detail in most civil rights legislation (with exceptions), is that one person’s rights end where another’s begin and that no person has the right to impose the exercise of those rights on another.

      That is born out again and again in court rulings that, rightfully, result in the protection of minorities (oppressed and otherwise) from the imposition of, for instance, a religious belief onto the purchase (and purchaser) of a cake.

      Further, buying a cake is not a right (natural, civil or human).

      No, but that’s not what this is about; it’s about being denied a service because of their sexual orientation.

      I suspect that if the Kleins offered to sell the gay couple a cake, but didn’t offer same-sex toppers (or whatever else made it a gay wedding cake), then they wouldn’t have violated the law.

      I don’t think same-sex wedding cake toppers are covered specifically in the legislation, but it should be trivial for a bakery to order them if they’ve engaged the business of a lesbian couple. If the bakery were unable to get such a wedding topper (or, indeed, whatever made the cake gay), but had engaged in their business, it would be up to the couple to decide whether to continue with the transaction or not. I don’t know what scenario you were imagining, but in the one I propose no discrimination actually occurred, merely an inability to meet the requirements for the customer to purchase the service.

      Are you sure you know what the law is and what discrimination means? Use your Googlefu; it can be accessed via the tips of your fingers and the search bar in your browser. Or, you know, just mash your keyboard and perhaps you’ll end up with another comment in the vein of the one I’m responding to.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 4:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Thomathy: LOLOL… I’m certainly not commenting because you make sense… I’m really commenting because: 1) I won’t let you get away with diarrhea of the oral cavity; and 2) I really pity you! Still… you are humorous, but one usually gets the quality one pays for. Fail.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 5:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Thomathy: You also need to understand that Prop 8 was defeated because once rights are granted to people, the state cannot unilaterally take them away. Prop 8 proponents found out the hard way and they had no standing to go to trial on the matter. The majority doesn’t rule — legally. (I really thought you had done some homework and ‘knew’ that!).

      Sep 4, 2013 at 5:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Agnes Wilkerson: I’m sure you realize this, but your ignorance, arrogance and ‘attitude’ utterly destroy anything positive that might be garnered from whatever comments you make. You literally shoot yourself fatally every time you post nasty, aggressive comments. Be nicer to yourself, and you’ll eventually be nicer to others. Hear, hear!

      Sep 4, 2013 at 5:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Dakotahgeo: “The majority doesn’t ALWAYS rule — legally. (I really thought you had done some homework and ‘knew’ that!).

      Sep 4, 2013 at 5:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @ChiChi Man: Thank you, ChiChiMan!

      Sep 4, 2013 at 5:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Cam: Thank you, Cam, for reasonable and to-the-point arguments! Some people who you have answered are awfully easy.

      Sep 4, 2013 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      LOLOL… Yup, I’m convinced that Thomathy and Agnes are conjoined evil twins that argue with each other. This is just too funny to believe, but on Queerty? Nahhh… Humor du jour!

      Sep 4, 2013 at 5:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • manjoguy
      manjoguy

      “…religious freedom doesn’t give one carte blanche to discriminate…to reign in religion when it starts to impinge on the freedom of others.” Boy, is that ever leftist ideology. How does this affect another’s freedom? That person has the freedom not to deal with those people whose religious beliefs and practices they don’t like. Simple. But you are in effect telling people what they can believe and practice. Is THAT religious freedom?

      Sep 4, 2013 at 7:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Thomathy
      Thomathy

      @Dakotahgeo: @Dakotahgeo:

      LOLOL… I’m certainly not commenting because you make sense

      Umm …okay?

      I won’t let you get away with diarrhea of the oral cavity

      Won’t let me get away with …how? Says the person with not less than 17 comments (7 of which are consecutive) in this one thread and a total word count nearly equal to mine. That’s precious. It might also be considered diarrhea of the oral cavity, but I don’t see what the mouth has to do with typing.

      I really pity you!

      Don’t.

      Still… you are humorous, but one usually gets the quality one pays for.

      You think I’m funny? Aww, thanks!

      Fail.

      Sure?

      @Dakotahgeo:

      You also need to understand that Prop 8 was defeated because once rights are granted to people, the state cannot unilaterally take them away.

      I haven’t said anything about ‘Prop 8′, so I don’t know where you got the idea that I need you to tell me that I need to understand anything about it.

      I don’t; not from you.

      The majority doesn’t [ALWAYS] rule — legally.

      Again, you’ve lost me. Have I ever said that the majority does rule?

      @Dakotahgeo:

      LOLOL… Yup, I’m convinced that Thomathy and Agnes are conjoined evil twins that argue with each other.

      I respond twice to a person, and one time is the first time I ever have and you can come to that conclusion?

      This is just too funny to believe, but on Queerty? Nahhh… Humor du jour!

      I wonder if anyone actually shares your particular humour.

      Sep 5, 2013 at 10:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sebbie3000
      sebbie3000

      @manjoguy: Nobody is telling anyone what they can believe. The simple fact is, business is covered by law; you break those laws, you get punished.

      Why is that so difficult for people to understand? Religion does not trump the law. You have your beliefs (general ‘you’, not specific), fine. But enter into the public forum of business, you answer to the laws laid out for said practices. Jeez… You’d think people around here couldn’t be bothered to educate themselves, even just a little.

      Oh, wait…

      Sep 5, 2013 at 11:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      I’m tired. The best line of the thread, “How can these bakers worship a god so feeble He needs their help to judge people?”

      Sep 5, 2013 at 12:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @Thomathy:

      Oh my God! Poor baby! I do not think I have ever met anyone with so dire a case of “last word syndrome”! And such a pseudo intellectual to boot! Why you must be their King! (or Queen, whichever applies in your case!)

      Ever!

      You must really enjoy the sound of your own yapper. Maybe some day you’ll find someone that can love an obnoxious know it all like yourself.

      On another note, whoever wrote (I don’t feel like searching through all this palaver for it) “all laws PROTECT the larger majority” needs help, RIGHT AWAY! That remark is so silly on so many levels………well……I’m speechless!

      And the Prop 8 comments? “PRICELESS”

      Agnes

      Sep 5, 2013 at 2:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      So for all you “laws are meant to protect us” fools, how would you react if you were an owner of a bakery and the local commandant from the Ricky Ray Jimmie James Bobby Lee Chapter of the American Nazi Party came into your bakery and asked you to make him a cake for their Adolf Hitler Birthday Party Bash? Complete with swastika? AND you know all of this about him (and to make it even more fun, he’s wearing his little uniform!)

      He’s a minority AND a special needs person not to mention a hateful idiot………but, if he commits no crime and does you no harm, will you bake him his cake? And not shit in it?

      Please think about what it is I have asked you before you answer.

      Agnes

      Sep 5, 2013 at 2:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Agnes Wilkerson
      Agnes Wilkerson

      @Agnes Wilkerson:

      AND, let’s make it more fun……he’s Gay!

      Agnes

      Sep 5, 2013 at 3:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Thomathy
      Thomathy

      @Agnes Wilkerson:

      Oh my God! Poor baby! I do not think I have ever met anyone with so dire a case of “last word syndrome”!

      How did you know I couldn’t resist? I mean, you goad me with a comment designed as a self-fulfilling prophecy. Don’t tell me you thought your tactic was opaque. Of course, if I hadn’t responded, I’d be cowed before you. If I do respond, as I am, I suffer from ‘so dire a case of “last word syndrome”!’ (More perplexing inverted commas, I note.)

      It looks like no matter what I do, I play into your hand. Keep it coming, then.

      And such a pseudo intellectual to boot!

      Thanks!

      Why you must be their King! (or Queen, whichever applies in your case!)

      Who’s ‘King’?

      Ever!

      Random!

      You must really enjoy the sound of your own yapper.

      More sound references for typed words, but I do understand the attempt at metaphore.

      Also, I’m not sure it’s accurate to accuse me of being lengthy and enjoying my own voice when you’ve made more than 20 comments in this thread and written more than 1700 words (well more than I have). That seems disingenuous; I think you know who the real ‘yapper’ is.

      Maybe some day you’ll find someone that can love an obnoxious know it all like yourself.

      Thanks?

      Sep 5, 2013 at 3:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tricky ricky
      tricky ricky

      @tsukasaokinawa: this is a publicity ploy by these “Christians”. they’re liars who are trying to put all the blame on the gay people for filing a legitimate complaint against them.

      Sep 7, 2013 at 11:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tricky ricky
      tricky ricky

      the bakery owners are nothing but liars twisting the facts to suit their aim to make a buck and be martyrs for right wing Christian anti-gay groups. they violated the statute and they know it. they are using the right wing tactic of lay the blame on the person you violated the rights of for making you violate their rights.

      Sep 7, 2013 at 12:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tricky ricky
      tricky ricky

      @Agnes Wilkerson: I see you enjoy making specious arguments

      Sep 7, 2013 at 12:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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