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Religious Wars

Baptist Pastors Combat Anti-Gay Campaign In Black Community

Despite efforts of the National Organization for Marriage and Bill Owen’s Coalition of African-American Pastors to rally blacks against same-sex marriage, others in the religious community are pushing back.

“We as black Baptists are not single-issue persons, and we see more important things than getting stuck on this matter of whether or not there should be same-sex marriages,” argues Amos Brown, pastor of the Third Baptist Church in San Francisco and the local chapter president of the NAACP.

Brown—along with the National Baptist Convention USA, the National Baptist Convention of America, the Progressive National Baptist Convention and the Lott Carey Foreign Missionary Convention—is also calling out Bill Owen’s hucksterism: Owns claim that he has the backing of 3,000 ministers in his anti-gay-marriage crusade has been labeled “fraudulent” and “political grandstanding” by his critics.

And Brownis calling into question how authentic Owen’s crusade is to the community, and how much of it is coming from white evangelical puppet masters: “[They] have not been based so much on questions of morality, of religion, but it’s a matter of power, politics and money that they are creating these kinds of alliances.”

Given the stark contrasts in this year’s election between an incumbent who just happens to be black and his challenger, a tax cut-loving, minority-avoiding millionaire who just happens to be white, Brown and his friends in the ministry aren’t taking a single vote for granted.

Amen.

By:           victor hoff
On:           Aug 19, 2012
Tagged: , , , , , , ,
  • 46 Comments
    • Ronn
      Ronn

      The whole idea of blacks being against same-sex marriage (in the legal sense)has always and always will completely dumbfounds me. Those who are against marraige equality claim the bible as an excuse for their positions. Yet are they really that ignorant to not know that the bible was used as justification for slaverly? The black homophobe has got to be one of the most hypocritical convictions in all of American history.

      Aug 19, 2012 at 12:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NOM Comments
      NOM Comments

      Every time I see NOM or the CAAP comment on the matter, all I can think of is this.

      “The strategic goal of this project is to drive a wedge between gays and blacks — two key Democratic constituencies. Find, equip, energize and connect African American spokespeople for marriage; develop a media campaign around their objections to gay marriage as a civil right; provoke the gay marriage base into responding by denouncing these spokesmen and women as bigots…Fanning the hostility”

      Aug 19, 2012 at 12:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jj
      jj

      Just tell them that the bible was used as a weapon to promote slavery. That it was illegal for interacial couples to get married up until the 60’s! for fucks sake people that should be enough for blacks to support gay marriage. Its unfortunate that people who have been discriminated against usually take any opportunity they can get to discriminate against others…

      Aug 19, 2012 at 3:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Thank you to the author “Victor Hoff” for actually mentioning that there is a campaign out there by NOM targeting gays. (Leaving out though, that they are a front for money funnelled from the Mormon and Catholic Churches.

      Friends and I were starting to think that Queerty was only going to write articles that had undertones of homophobia about them. Nice to see at least one of the writers here is paying attention.

      Aug 19, 2012 at 3:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Neo
      Neo

      @Cam: Do note that it wasn’t mormons though, for future reference when Avery posts another hostile piece.

      Seems it has slipped through rather than a clear agenda.

      Aug 19, 2012 at 3:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dutchman67
      dutchman67

      Understanding the Cycle Of Abuse, we know the Psychological and Sociological reasons for the Black Community being hostile and bigoted toward the LGBT Community. In the cycle of abuse, if you have been a victim, you almost without exception (on an individual or group level) victimize others. Your father beat you? You will probably beat your children. Your mother a drunk? You have a propensity toward alcoholism. Your’re a Israeli Citizen? you will abuse and persecute Palestinins. The cycle of abuse, like alcholism, is almost enevitable. You must CONSCIOUSLY break that cycle of abuse, but you first must understand it. It requires education. That is what’s missing here; education.

      Aug 19, 2012 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Myles.
      Myles.

      Just say thank-you to this bunch of religious fools for practising what they preach and move on!
      Myles.

      Aug 19, 2012 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hamoboy
      hamoboy

      Wow, I was sure the Grand Dragon of the KKK LGBT Chapter would be here in the comments telling everyone “IT’S A TRAP! THEY DON’T REALLY MEAN IT!” but so far, he hasn’t arrived. Encouraging.

      Aug 19, 2012 at 6:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DirtyOleMan
      DirtyOleMan

      @jj: I think you don’t know how right on point you are, jj. In my day gay men hated gay women and blacks of all persuasions. In fact any of the three did not get along with the other two. Even without religion, there is a lot of baggage from the past. I was the odd white guy that had the hots for every black gay within 50 feet.

      Aug 19, 2012 at 7:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MikeB
      MikeB

      @Ronn: You could say the same about Hispanics from Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America, and South America. The Bible was used to justify the enslavement of countless native peoples there who most of the current population is descended from.

      But yet machismo still exists. And therefore the fear that a man being attracted to another man makes him less masculine also exists. The same is true for the African Americans. It’s just that the Bible is being used to justify this fear. Before the Bible it was the propaganda that gays will kidnap your kids and molest them. After that it was that all gays get Aids. It doesn’t matter what is used to justify the fear, the Bible is just something convenient.

      Aug 19, 2012 at 9:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WakeUpWhitePeople
      WakeUpWhitePeople

      It really sounds less distasteful when you use the term “Marriage Equality” and not “Gay Marriage”. Just saying.

      Aug 19, 2012 at 11:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joral
      Joral

      and he will be ostracized by the black community for his betrayal..and he deserves it. Listen gays..no individual or religious institution has to support your concept of marriage. If the Obama and the federal trample the constitution like they’ve done on just about everything else and force gay marriage on the states that rejected it, it won’t change people’s beliefs and it will only make anti-gay sentiments increase

      Aug 20, 2012 at 12:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joral
      Joral

      also gays look up the definition of “Bigoted” for the lazy who are too busy thinking about sex 24/7(since that’s what this “movement is about..sex)..a bigot is a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices..sounds familiar? if gays want to see a bigot then take a look in the mirror.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 12:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cyndi Brady
      Cyndi Brady

      NOM continues to try to pitch their hate-stories to African-Americans, but photos of their bus-tours and rallies are still a sea of white faces. Not surprising since the Af-Am Catholic population appears to be quite small, and I believe (without stats at hand) that this applies to the LDS church as well.

      NOM is against “redefining marriage” but they forget that it WAS redefined when polygamy was outlawed in USA and inter-racial marriages were allowed, begrudgingly.

      The Biblical instructions on the care of slaves still bothers me. Do they not study those passages in churches anymore? Shame.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 12:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marcos
      Marcos

      Latinos are not as annoying. They support it more than the national average. African-Americans who are against it are trapped with R Kelly in the closet. Most of them are taught to be “churchy” from their families. Many are mad because they are stuck in their positions. Some married…… etc. They don’t want others to have they rights they can’t get now because of the decisions they made for themselves. Jackson looks like one of those angry bottom boys who went down McClurkin road and can’t “play” anymore. 12% of the population is insignificant. LEt them argue and fight. At least Latinos are more likely to support it, their culture is not bent on closetedness to the same degree as these other people.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 1:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mousemess
      Mousemess

      It’s good to see that not all African American pastors are for the anti-gay line and that some are opposing the anti-gay voices in their community.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 9:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Demetry
      Demetry

      I’m not really certain how you figure the Bible is a weapon to promote slavery. Yes trying to pitch black suit against any other sector of society is wrong. the fact of the matter is promoting gay or lesbian lifestyles is still a corrupt and is this is tactic. marriage is an institution that came out of the bible. It was not governed by state nor the federal government. and the far left loves to preach about the division between church and state. That being said, how can you try to go print something from the bible, or out of the Church? this is never been an issue of civil rights. This is always been an issue a face. the entire argument from the progressive side would lead you to believe that this is something that can be compared with being black for being white or Mexican or some other nationality or heritage. You cannot choose what color you are what nationality you are that is something you are born with.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 9:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • asa1973
      asa1973

      @Myles.: Amen

      Aug 20, 2012 at 10:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cam
      cam

      @Joral:

      YAWN…..can you hypocrites please send somebody in here who has actually been to school? The Constitution allows equal enforcement and equal rights.

      MITT ROMNEY and the GOP on the other hand have advocated to CHANGE the Constitution to outlaw gay marriage.

      So you go ahead and claim Obama is trampling the Constitution by enforcing it, and claiming that the GOP loves the constitution when they want to alter it.

      You bigots are not very bright are you?

      Aug 20, 2012 at 10:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • demetry
      demetry

      by societal standards I am agitated. However the U.S. Constitution outlines the right so we have been given by God. for obama to say what should or should not be recognized as marriage infringes on the rights of others. I don’t believe the federal government know if the state has the right to say what should or should not be recognized as a marriage. It is an institution of the church. Therefore, that a authority should rest with the same.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 11:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Papi Balenciaga
      Papi Balenciaga

      @Marcos: “At least Latinos are more likely to support it”. Well if that was the case then Gay Marriage would be legal in more than just a handful of states. So either those Latinos don’t vote or they are just a bunch of liars and are trapped in the closet with R. Kelly and the rest of the black homophobes.
      @Ronn: So are homophobic women and jewish people. Never be selective when it comes to people who hate you.
      @Cyndi Brady: Those ignorant anti-gay black pastors overlook those passages, they are nothing but puppets for NOM and other anti-gay organizations and puppets are only as smart as their puppet MASSAHS.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 11:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • demetry
      demetry

      so, what passages in the Bible promote the gay and lesbian lifestyle?

      Aug 20, 2012 at 12:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Myles
      Myles

      Demetry,
      You could read the story of David’s love for Jonathan in First Samuels,chapters 18-20 for starters.Their love apparently surpassed the love of woman.
      You could continue with the love of Ruth for Naiomi.
      You could read the Psalms as well as many other biblical books for further inspiration.
      By the way,how did the three sons of Adam and Eve ever have children?Perhaps there was a second creation?Incest anyone?
      Then again,per books of fairy tales,Aesop’s Fables is much less violent or pornographic than your bible.Your childish mind won’t be as disturbed by reading it.
      Myles.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 1:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wendell
      wendell

      To the author of this article, thank you. You avoided labeling the entire black community homophobic, something most of these commenters to your article have failed to do. Instead, you concentrated on a specific group of “usual suspects” who are homophobic and showed there are those within the community willing to challenge their intolerant speech. Wish all gay journalist would take your lead.

      A great tragedy is few within gay culture will examine its own racism exhibited often in comment sections on gay websites and at many levels witin the gay community. Intolerance does flow both ways and gay people like to ignore it among their own ranks.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 1:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • demetry
      demetry

      the story of david and jonathan spoke of a brotherly love. I’m not certain why so many people approach that story from the perspective that you’re trying to take it. I council multiple gay and lesbian you. And this scripture is always taking out of context by someone that is let them down this path. the same goes for naomi and ruth. These were not lesbian lovers but they should a godly or sisterly love. you need to keep description context and know that when it speaks of it it states plainly that he loves him as himself he loved him as a brother not as a man loves a woman.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 3:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Myles.
      Myles.

      @demetry:
      The love that surpasses the love of woman refers to sexual love not brotherly affection or anything like that.Explain AGAPE.Thousands of biblical scholars,even in our century, choose to mis-interpet this story rather than admit the truth.You are just another scamming religious fool trying to weasel out of uncomfortable truths.
      Of course Ruth and Naiomi couldn’t be lovers either because there were no men around and everyone knows,it takes a man.
      The real truth is that adults,who believe in invisible beings in the sky,are all certifiably insane.Their is no”pie in the sky”or even virgins for martyrs either as the muslims believe.
      Religion is a crock of s**t and the only people who benefit from it are the leeches like you who sell it as you well know.
      Myles.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 4:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • demetry
      demetry

      AGAPE means Godly love. It has not been the same meaning forever. The meaning of the text which you took out of context, simply states only that the love which jonathan had for david far exceeded that of the love between a man and a woman. which taken in your context would mean that it’s a pass is the love that a man could have for a man as well. true bible scholars have never taken this out of context or misinterpreted it. only those seeking to twist it’s definition and to make it conformed to this sort of lifestyle have sought to distort it’s truth.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 5:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andre
      Andre

      @Myles and @Demetry: How very true. I recently had a good conversation with a friend of mine who was on the fence about the lifestyle he was living. This story came up as well. Going back and reading the entire passage with him, not just the verse containing that text, you would konw David loved the king’s daughter and desired to marry her. Jonathan and David were the closest of friends, not lovers. Never does it present itself as that type of relationship. Even my friend realized that. To try to state that it was a sexual love shows you never read anything other than that small excerpt. It also means you only go off of what other people are telling you. That seem to expose you as the uneducated one. On the subject of believing in “invisible beings in the sky”, because you have chosen to reject God does not mean others are insane. It means your mind is closed to many truths and you refuse to hear. No one is forcing the belief on you. However for some reason the gay and lesbian community try for force the recognition of their lifestyle on everyone else. I agree with Demetry. I have chosen to accept my friend as he is. I do not agree with his lifstyle, however I do not condemn him as a person, nor do I force my faith on him. Christ never forced anything on anyone and neither should we. With that in mind, marriage is an institution derived from the Church and wether you want to accept it or not this country was build on the laws of the Bible. If you don’t believe me just look in most of the justice based buildings; what do you find on the wall in the main common area? That is right, the 10 commandments. It would seem someone else believes in the invisible person in the sky. The ficticious belief of the separation between Chruch and State would also dictate the federal government no the state should be able to dictate the recognition of same sex marriage as opposed to the Biblical marriage between a man and a woman. You have a lot to learn and if you want to bad mouth the saints of God because you choose not to believe it or it convicts your lifestyle, it only shows the true failure of your argument. Over 80% of Americans choose to believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, there is a reason for this. The experience they have had and the comfort he provides far exceeds that of a woman or a man. You should get to know him before you try to say he is not real. God bless my friend.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 6:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andre
      Andre

      @Myles and @Demetry: I did not mean to leave out the story of Naomi and Ruth. I would guess you never read the entire passage on this either. Ruth was married to Ruth’s son. You should really read the bible before you take it out of context. Ruth stayed with Naomi out of loyalty, not out of sexual attraction. She married again to Boaz another of Naomi’s family later.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 6:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Myles.
      Myles.

      Andre,
      Long dead monkeys will find a piece of an ice cube on the surface of the sun before anyone else ever finds a hint that there once might have been a trace of truth in any religion that man has ever created.
      Religion is the root of all that has ever been evil in any society since man has first created it.
      How long ago was it that most people believed that women weren’t people,just property?
      How long ago was it that most people believed slavery was correct?
      How long ago was it that most people believed the earth was flat?
      With time more people wake up to the falacies and Truth Wins Out.
      It is only your ignorance holding you back.
      You probably think creationism is the truth as well.
      Poor boy!
      Myles.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 6:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andre
      Andre

      Myles,
      The word of God will never fade. I see you also have not been a study of history either. When were women counted in property in Biblical history. You also need to study the difference between slavery “American defined” and as described in the Bible. Old and New Testament. I hold no ill towards your pointed words. We are all appointed a time on this earth and then we die. I hope you will be ready for the life to come. I do believe in the creation by God. Evolution has yet to create a pathway over its missing link without faking another clay skull or other skeletal remains. The Chruch will never fade because the faith in God is real and God is real.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 6:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Myles.
      Myles.

      @Andre: Solomon brags about how many wives and concubines he has for just one example.He also brags about the number of sheep,cattle and slaves that he has.Property,not people.Property is property.Slavery is slavery regardless of any way you choose to interpet it.
      You’ll get pie in the sky when you die.Thank you,no thank you.I want my pie here on Earth while I am breathing.You are alive now,live!When you die you go six feet under and become fodder for earth worms.Open your eyes to the truth for a change.
      Never forget that faith is believing in something that you have no proof is real.As the Australian lady said”I am not an idiot.”
      Myles.
      P.S.
      Check your spelling of church.Your “u” key and “r” key seem to be reversed.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 7:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • demetry
      demetry

      You must be very empty with no faith. If you truly believe death is your end, I hope you get your fill of pie here on earth.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 8:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Myles.
      Myles.

      @demetry:
      Thank you!
      Myles.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 8:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DTG
      DTG

      The GayKK strikes again.

      I’m black and gay, but I’m always going to side with the black community here. Sorry, but a bunch of upper-middle class gay white men don’t get to tell black people how they should feel, think or perceive the world. Black people aren’t taking anything off gay peoples plates by not being gay-friendly…or better yet, by not being gay-compliant…because that’s what this is really about. You couldn’t care less about black folks being accepting, because you really couldn’t care less about black folks, period; you’re just pretentiously annoyed that we would DARE oppose YOU. Nevermind that just about every anti-gay powerbroker in REAL positions of power to stifle and impede the gay community have historically been — and continue to be — white.

      The Vatican and Catholic church is white…the Mormon church is white…Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist church are white…Mike Huckabee and Dan Cathy are white…Rick Santorum is white…the Bachmans are white…the leaders of the American Family Association and every other large conservative family group are white…Pat Robertson is white…Mitt Romney is white. And my guess is that the officials of every prominent gay-conversion program are probably white too. Now WHO in the black community is as powerful or socially influential as any of those people? Obama? Oprah? Ooops, they’re gay friendly…as are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Go figure. I’m sure the latter two REALLY throws you for a loop and causes a conflict when it comes to this topic.

      Yet you all have the audacity to gasp because black people (in general) are less likely to feign being approving of, or comfortable with, homosexuality. Get the hell outta here. Black folks account for 13.6% of the US population. Stop acting like our objection is your speed bump.
      The bottom line is that if more of your own parents, grandparents, siblings, friends, bosses, community leaders, clergy and politicians supported you legally, you’d have all your rights, and no matter how allegedly homophobic the black community is overall, it wouldn’t be a hinderance to you. You’d be able to step right over it and keep on moving. But I guess pointing fingers at us takes your mind off of how your own family are disappointed in you for not being straight, no matter how much they may pose and posture to the contrary.

      We don’t owe you anything. And that includes understanding or compassion. Don’t get me wrong, it’s great when we give it, but we don’t owe it to you…just because. The gay community is as ra-cist as the black community is homophobic, yet you’d be hard pressed to find black people collectively seething over that, because frankly we don’t expect anything from you. We’re not under some pompous and idealistic impression that the gay community would be compliant with us, simply because they’re minorities too who know what it’s like to be discriminated against. Please.

      Aug 20, 2012 at 9:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ronn
      Ronn

      @DTG: Im black and gay also and could not disagree with more. I will always side with the side that has MY back and it clearly is not the general black community. Is there racism in the GLBT community? Absolutely. Is there homophobia in the black community? Duh! However, the level of homophobia is far widespread than the racism in the GLBT community. The thing is, the black community does not give a shit about what color the gays are, including their own -the black ones. Homophobic blacks dont discriminate based on color just on if you love someone of the same gender. Besides, all of that is getting away from the main issue and that is Blacks hands down know better than anyone in this country and arguably the planet about discrimination and for them to turn around and do it to another group of people is flat out shameful, PERIOD!!!

      Aug 20, 2012 at 9:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DirtyOleMan
      DirtyOleMan

      @DTG: DTG, you need to lighten up!

      Aug 21, 2012 at 12:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dutchman67
      dutchman67

      Demetry, Not ONE of your sentences is correctly punctuated, spelled, has logic or proper syntax (look that word up.) When you express your thoughts that poorly, you betray a very bad education, and a decided lack of logical thinking.

      Aug 21, 2012 at 1:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dutchman67
      dutchman67

      @DTG:
      You have saved us a lot of time, by properly defining Black Guilt. Discrimination is not excusable at any level. You do not have to defend black people. We have seen, heard and felt their considerable ignorance. Don’t identify or defend it.

      Aug 21, 2012 at 1:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dutchman67
      dutchman67

      @Andre:
      Andre, you do not know much about History or Theology, and it shows. History is not what you learned in Sunday School, that’s propoganda. Theology is not what you learned there either, that is doctrine. You can actually avail yourself of Theological insights, discussions, and intelligent research online. But YOU have to do the work. Good luck. You have to prepare to challenge your myths.

      Aug 21, 2012 at 1:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dutchman67
      dutchman67

      @WakeUpWhitePeople:
      We’re not worried or concerned with your problem with shame. “Distasteful” is your problem, not the problem of Freedom Lovers.

      Aug 21, 2012 at 1:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • demetry
      demetry

      @everyone if you have an issue with the punctuation of my sentences, the problem is I’m using talk to text on a cell phone. It is not always perfect. Get over it. andre was correcting everything that he said. not to mention it seems none of you have actually read the bible or know much about history at all other than what you read in gay or lesbian blogs. I on the other hand, actually research the Bible and history. that is part of my job. so if you’re going to say someone is wrong what does not know the facts maybe you should expand upon them and tell us about them yourself. all of these statements you say that came from the bible that andre explained in correctly, why don’t you enlighten us and give us the text showing otherwise. here’s a question for you. since you are so into history, are you all supporters of the division between church and state? If so , how can you support state or federally licensed marriage? when was the institution of marriage actually conceived? why don’t you I’ll try reading some books that are not in the gay and lesbian support section. Then come back with some real answers and facts. Hey, the Bible maybe a good place for you to start if you going to challenge what is said about the Bible. up to this point, passages from the bible have been posted out of context. When this context is been challenged and or discredited all you have to come back with are statements condemning one’s beliefs, but no substantial or credible opposing information for documentation. andre simply stated facts from the bible. because you are not able to counter you attacked his credibility or intelligence. However, he’s extremely intelligent and right and what he was saying. He seems to actually know the Bible. As do I. So, if you are really going to challenge biblical text, you should probably get out there and do some studying. it almost seems like you’re all the same person chirping about something that someone else may have told you. When you never really studied it for yourself. It shows through and the fact that you have no clue as to what you’re talking about when it comes to the Bible. Taking statement out of context, is never a way to win a debate.

      Aug 21, 2012 at 12:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • abarnett
      abarnett

      If indeed you doubt my knowledge of history, or the Bible, Show me my err. I believe as Demetry has stated, you probably need to study up a bit before issuing that sort of statement. I have not read anything written here other than of myself that actually holds any historic or Biblical truth.

      Aug 21, 2012 at 12:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dutchman67
      dutchman67

      @demetry:
      When you complete your PHD at a major university, are ordained, and teach theology at
      a major university (sorry, Bob Jones, BYU, Wheaton and Cornerstone do NOT qualify) then you can converse on this subject. First, as I recommended, learn to spell and compose complete sentences. You will NOT be taken seriously with a 4th grade vocublary. Anywhere.

      Aug 22, 2012 at 3:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • demetry
      demetry

      There’s the issue. you are the 1 who brought up biblical statements. I guess now you’re going to tell us that you have your PhD in his story for you are an ordained minister. Again, as you didn’t bring up the stuff fixed. All the while taking every scripture and fact out of context. Why is it when you have no substantive rebuttal, you regress diversion tactics? Who cares about grammatical, punctuation, spelling etc., when it has already been stated I am using voice to text? It doesn’t always come out correctly. Get over it and stick to the subject, if you can. The fact of the matter is,we are right, you are wrong, and the argument cannot be broken. This is my faith. You are no authority in any way shape or form. God said the act of a man lying with a man as he would with a woman is an abomination. That is scripture. No if, and, or but a out it. God does not contradict himself. I don’t know who or from where this so-called minister received his doctrine, but it was not from the Holy Word of God. Say what you want, and complain about any grammatical, typos, etc. I was raised in the Church. My pastor preaches the Word, and the Word alone. I am an authority as I have seen my God at work. Call me crazy if you like, but as you are not versed in the word, your spouting off bout an explanation as to its meaning is null and baseless at best.

      Aug 22, 2012 at 10:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Myles.
      Myles.

      What is the subject,Demetry?
      Is it that you are an expert on a book of fairy tales?
      Perhaps you are an expert on gods and other make believe beings?
      Perhaps you are an expert on abominations,since you have so many to choose from?
      Perhaps you are an expert in what religious leaders do to little boys who are raised in a church?
      Give us the benefit of your expertise,Demetry.We await impatiently.
      Myles.

      Aug 22, 2012 at 11:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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