It’s not just the presidential candidates who are getting nasty this nearly-there election season.
Right-wing activists supporting California’s Proposition 8, which will re-ban gay marriage, have invoked Barack Obama in their fight, saying the Senator’s race lends them an inadvertent helping hand…
We thank Barack Obama, even though he’s not supporting it, for helping us,” says Sonja Eddings Brown, of an anti-gay-marriage group called Protect Marriage. “We think it’s going to push us over the top.”
Obama is expected to bring African-American voters out in record numbers, and those voters are seen as often being more conservative on issues involving homosexuality.
That last statement, though a common argument, may not be entirely true.
A report filed back in August suggests that black voters are more progressive than some assume:
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Although ordinary polls report lower levels of support for same-sex marriage among blacks than among whites, views on same-sex marriage are a rapidly moving target that’s tough to pin down, even for experts.
And a funny thing happened on the way to the ballot box in the last presidential election. When constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage were on 11 state ballots in November 2004, blacks in Arkansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Ohio and Oklahoma were at least one percentage point less likely than whites to vote for them, according to CNN exit polls. Only in Georgia were blacks slightly more likely to vote for the amendment. (The remaining four states had too few blacks to make a meaningful comparison.)
…
Across the country, black voters repeatedly reelect African American politicians who support gay rights. The nation’s two black governors have forcefully backed gay marriage — and each has spoken movingly about accepting gay people in his own family.
That same article also contends that Proposition 8’s contentious language – the title reads “”Eliminates Right of Same-sex Couples to Marry” – could help influence black voters, who for years fought for equal rights in America.
DB
So the right wingers tar all black voters with the same brush, while actual research shows they have varying views not a whole miles away from the cultural norms from the area where they live…
Is that what they’re trying to say? Or is it another piece of polarising race-based nonsense?
Cam
While it is true that the African American community has a high rate of violence against gays as well as opposition against gay marraige, their voting in the CA. election may not have quite the effect that the Prop 8 people would like. If they are first time registrants, they are registering on the enthusiasm for a new candidate. As ANYBODY who has ever voted in Ca. can tell you, those propositions go on FOREVER! Half the people that vote don’t bother to vote on most of them. So if you get a bunch of new enthusiastic voters in there, they will vote for the president, vice-, senators, congressment, mayor, school board etc… then after all that you get to the list of 400 propositions and hell you just don’t feel like running through all of them unless you have another hour to kill.
CHURCHILL-Y
Of course Obama is gonna help drive up the pro-Prop 8 votes! Blacks are renowned homophobes, even the Obama drones admit to it. Just look at the endless parade of anti-Gay bigots that have come forth from the african American community on Obama’s faith tours shit or whatever the hell he’s calling it know. Honestly how can any non-black GLBT person not think that the James Meeks, Donnie McClurkings, the Mary chimps, the Rev Wrights, Leah Daughtrys, that stupid black preacher who gave the opening anti-choice speech at the DNC convention who’s also surprise! anti-Gay are not reflective of the black community at large. Wake up people those bigots wouldn’t be in the positions of prominence they find themselves in if their people didn’t like what they believe and preach. May their evil hatred for us be rendered to a minimum on the ballot box and Prop 8 be defeated, but yeah things don’t look good in CA with so many minority voters in the picture.
An Other Greek
this is fundie SPIN
Obama understands that -presently- this is a DEAD issue on the Federal level, undoable due to national retardation and immaturity, but fully supports state decisions
we should stop confusing the marriage issue as a federal mandate (huh, i said mandate!)
progress will HAVE TO FIRST happen at state level!
Go MASSACHUSETTS and CALIFORNIA!
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Kit
File this under “Straws, Grasping At.”
The View
Well put, reply 5. same sex marriage is dead.
An Other Greek
I don’t think same sex marriage is dead at all,
on the contrary!!
There are now 2 states that allow it, paving the way…
This is PROGRESS !
just don’t confuse the federal-state paradox, and keep yr eyes on the prize!
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CastleRock
That picture makes him look like the fucking asshole that he really is……
fredo777
That hat makes him look like the fuckin’ badass cowboy that he is.
Hater.
JJ
Since when are cowboys black? In that picture he’s more like a mulatto minstrel. He’s a pretender.
No 4
That hat is pushing it BIG TIME…is he trying to get unclaimed Bush votes?
CitizenGeek
I think it’s pretty much undeniable that African-Americans are by far the most homophobic ethnic minority in America. Andrew Sullivan backed that point up fairly well a few days ago. Still, I doubt that black people who vote for Obama will vote in favour of Prop 8 when they know he opposes it, and the stats in the above article are promising.
fredo777
JJ, you dumbass, there were thousands of black cowboys. Read something.
Kit
“Same-sex marriage is dead.”
Heh. Sure. Add it to the list:
“Mission accomplished!”
“Permanent Republican majority!”
Hahahahaha.
Wingnuts, this is reality. Reality, meet wingnuts. Don’t worry, you’ll have plenty of time to get to know each other during the Obama administration.
The View
CitizenGeek, You really think so.
African-Americans are only supporting Obama
because of his race not because of his views.
If Obama were a white man they wouldn’t care
about him in the same numbers they do.
You’re leaving out how influenced by religion they are.
Even those who don’t actively go to church still
hold on to those bible teachings that makes them
feel connected with their past, even though it
was actually something forced to their slave
ancestors, they still embrace it.
That speaks pretty bad about them, they just want
to cast a vote for him to have their first
black President. Most of them will end up voting
for Prop 8 and the language used will be of no
influence to them because they don’t see gay
peoples fight for equality in the same light as
theirs for racial equality since most believe
that being gay is an option unlike their skin color.
There maybe a few educated and progressive
individuals but not enough of them to really
counter balance the rest.
RainaWeather
Many of the first cowboys were Black.
Chuloguy
False RainaWeather, Cowboy is a direct English translation of the word vaquero, a Spanish word for an individual who managed cattle while mounted on horseback. It was derived from vaca, meaning cow, same for the word buckaroo. The Spanish originated what we now consider the cowboy tradition, beginning with the hacienda system of medieval Spain. This style of cattle ranching spread throughout much of the Iberian peninsula and later, was imported to the Americas. Has nothing to do with blacks.
There might have been some black vaqueros but only under servitude for the Spanish. Then there where some segregated mounted cavalry regiments who went about murdering Native Americans at the behest of the US government but those cant be considered as cowboys or vaqueros per se.
akaison
It’s funny how not one ever actually polls AA. The actual poll on the subject says they are no more or less likely to vote for Prop 8. But making shit up is easier. This is about the racism in the gay community. It’s pretty easy to test the theory that blacks are more homophobic, and yet no one ever does. Why?
Greg
NEW SurveyUSA poll in California
Do you support eliminating same-sex couples rights to marry”
YES – 47%
NO – 42%
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=b46ce159-115e-4f44-8be2-ce9b8eca657e
PLEASE, if you haven’t helped out already get on board. This will be a tough battle.
Californians, vote NO on proposition 8.
Tell a friend. Speak out online. Donate.
Equality for All
http://tinyurl.com/6ddtf5
Equality California
http://tinyurl.com/5dydop
Mr C
First of all there is no validity to this shit. We already know how Obama/Biden etc feels about this.
But I guess Queerty had to put this up here so that this non-descriptive faggot from Mass who goes by the name of Churchill-Y can spew his racists’ comments that appear below.
Churchill-Y here’s a tip. Would you mind facing some of us African American Gays with your bullshit comments? I think not punk ass queen. Your idiotic ass has been quiet since we all see that Sarah Stalin is a polarizing piece of shit along with her old ass Sugar Daddy McInsane.
Once again like I asked your ass are there not WHITES who are homophobes? Or do you protect them?
The population of African Americans in Calif is small compared to Asians, and Latinos. But oh no you won’t get at them who are mostly overwhelming Catholics and who will vote for the ban. Where is your anger at them BITCH?
You idiotic piece of shit. I really see the attributes of your kin.
Don’t worry queen I hope and pray you move out of the US in 2009 BITCH as the Man you hate will take that oath
SILLY ASS QUEEN.
NO WAY, NO HOW, NO McINSANE, NO STALIN!
mds
I finally figured it out, the JJ asshole that keeps on posting negative shit about Ellen is just as I thought, not a gay person but some employee of a right wing organization that surfs the net just to inject their hatred and create a wedge between gays. People, there are people who are employed to do this very thing. Some are really good at appearing gay, but some are not such as JJ. Sad thing JJ is that your not even bright enough to do your job well. Go back to working the graveyard shift and the sewage treatment plant, your level of intelligence seems much better suited for that line of work.
Idiot.
MEN-SAR
black people havent experienced evolution yet – hence they still look like apes.
i say cut them some black. while they’re still a barbaric, uncivilized race, we must pity them
MEN-SAR
i meant cut them some slack lol
akaison
Greg
I know you want believe this but two things a) other polling shows Prop 8 losing by 15 points. b) IN order to pass typical props need to be up over 50 percent by now because in the booth most Californian vote no. Fight on, but see things in context.
Landon Bryce
It’s hard to say which side is more offensive: those who use African-American bigotry against gays as an excuse to spew racist garbage or those who deny that anti-gay bigotry in the African-American community is a significant threat to gay people. It has been proven in poll after poll after study after study that African-Americans are much, much more hostile to gay rights than most other Americans. Yes, the occasional author deliberately misreads the evidence, focuses on one study, and lies. The evidence that African-Americans are not more homophobic than other Democrats tend to be is on a par with the evidence that a homosexual orientation can be changed: if you look at one study from a bad source, you can support the lie you wish were true. You can’t stop being gay. And black Americans are more homophobic than most Americans. I hope that changes in the near future, but why are people putting their energy into lying about it rather than trying to change it?
CHURCHILL-Y
Why is Obama such a liar?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI7pUMbaINI
No wonder hamas is supporting him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvFj3-c93cg
Terrorists just love him.
crazylove
Except lance that’s not the discussion. What’s worse is actually some idiot who can’t read what’s being stated. For example, you claim poll after poll say what you say but then cite not one fucking poll. That’s why you bigots are a waste of time. You lie as soon as you take a breathe. THe irony of your statement of course is that anti gay marriage amendments has passed by significant majorities in states with little or not African American populations. Does that affect your bullshit thinking process? Probably not. That would require you to give up your belief system in favor of facts. Americans , regardless of race, sexual orienation, or whatever else you want to divide us into aren’t good with facts. Just faith based analysis.
Landon Bryce
Hi, Crazylove,
That’s an entirely fair criticism, and it was wrong of me to send my last post without including the following:
I think the best place to start if you want to look at the well-researched phenomenon of African-American homophobia is the National Black Justice Coalition’s April 2008 report “At the Crossroads.” As was mentioned earlier in this thread, the odious Andrew Sullivan provides a decent overview here:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/over-generalizi.html
I want to apologize that I did not include this support in my earlier post. Crazylove, I hope that you and anyone else who was rightly offended will forgive me.
I do think that the data on African-Americans and their lack of support for anti-gay marriage amendments and their support for pro-gay politicians is very exciting. They provide significant evidence that anti-gay attitudes among blacks are lessening. I think it is very likely that Proposition 8 will provide greater evidence of this, and I hope very much that that will be the case.
crazylove
My point is to not paint witha broad simple brush. The fact is that the two states that now allow gay marriage outright or honor gay marriage are both lead by African Americans. The only candidate willing to support civil unions versus the one who isn’t is a black candidate and the one who isn’t willing to support it is white. Rather than trying to address this as a black versus white thing- you need to realize its mostly a religious thing. A lot of african americans, even the young ones, have been taught by faith to have problems. but to be honest AAs in general due to how black sexuality is treated in this culture have a problem with sexuality, straight or otherwise. I don’t mean the sexualization of women in say gangsta rap. I mean actual deep discussions of actual sexuality issues. In trying to make this black versus white we miss that many of the states in which anti gay amendments passed were white. We also miss that some polling suggests that in Ca that blacks are no more likely to support Prop 8. Whether that is true or not even in exit polling will be difficult to test. Nor is it easy in general, by the way , to poll African Americans, because not all AAs identity themselves and often refuse to identity fthemselves for cultural reasons (fear over what identification will mean). I m not even arguing that I know for certain the answers to the questions raised here. I simply am tired of the simplistic bullshit posted by white gay men as fact. I am a black gay man in the black community, and I don’t know the definite answer, and yet, here we have white gay men who make no bones about being at odds with the black community and have no relationship with i acting as if blacks are per se more homophobic than whites. That doesn’t mean there aren’t any black homophobes. It’s however an open question of just how much blacks are more likely to be homophobic for a lot of reasons.
Wayne
You don’t see Obama speaking out against his supporters who are mobilizing to pass Prop 8 do you? Obama won’t even do a 10 sec commercial saying Vote No on Prop 8. And have you seen the polls on Prop 8 lately? We are losing. Any coincidence that Obama just wrapped up his “Faith Tour” in Cali with it’s main surrogate being an advocate for Prop 8 and now the polls turn against us?!
fredo777
Obama has already spoken out against Prop 8.
I would like it if he’d do a spot encouraging voters to vote No on it, though.
Frankly, his main targets should be the ones who’ll actually vote for him: Dems + Independents. That “Faith Tour” should have been iced, anyway, since it probably was an attempt to appeal to uber-conservatives who won’t vote his ticket regardless.
Know where your bread is buttered, guys.
I’m still voting the Dem ticket b/c I believe they’ll do a better job than McPalin (+ I find the latter party’s latest tactics dangerous + downright despicable) but this news is saddening.
Wayne
Obama has already spoken out against Prop 8.
—
No he hasn’t. He phoned in a weak written responce on the subject months ago. Obama has never spoken out against Prop 8, or more to the point, the large amount of his conservative African American supporters in Cali who are pushing to pass Prop 8. Why hasn’t Obama spoken out against them? Why were BOTH of Obama’s “Faith Tours’ headlined by anti-gay bigots?
fredo777
Obama himself considers the “efforts to amend the California Constitution” to be “divisive and discriminatory”.
I don’t consider that a weak statement but there’s no point in re-hashing all of that which was discussed + argued here months ago. Our energy would be much better spent campaigning against Prop 8 ourselves + donating time + money to the cause than finger-pointing + speculation.
Landon Bryce
Crazylove:
Do you feel no need to apologize for accusing me of racism for pointing out facts that you do not like? You are much guiltier of faith-based analysis than I. Do you feel no shame when you demand evidence, get it, and then ignore it?
More to the point: do you call out homophobia among blacks with the same level of ferocity you directed at me? I’m guessing that you do not.
crazylove
No Lance. I don’t. Making assumptions as you did is racism. That you don’t get that you were being racist is why racism persits. As someone wrote else where- homophobia isn’t a black or white problem, it’s an American one. The reason I introduced the fact that most anti-gay measures are passed in states with little to no black populations is to bring facts to bare on the bit of silliness that tries to pretend its about race. If your arguments here were valid, then in states in which blacks were not present would not be passing anti-gay amendments. That’s testable statement that has been proven to be the case and destroys the whole premise of your argument on its face. I deal in logic- not hurt feelings.
Landon Bryce
I make no assumptions. I am not remotely racist. I have pointed out facts. You don’t like them so you deny them and insult me. The great preponderance of evidence proves that African Americans are more antigay than most Americans. It’s not logic to claim that I (or anyone else) presented homophobia as an exclusively black problem, and, since we did not, your point about states with low black populations is nonsensical. Maybe you are so used to scaring people off with accusations of racism that you don’t know what to do when someone who is not racist does not run away in fear from the name. Maybe you have won arguments that way in the past, but it’s not logic. It’s emotional blackmail. And it’s beneath you. You’re smart. Act like it.
Dan
Numbers don’t lie. Without the black vote, Prop 6 would have failed. And truth-be-told, I don’t find that particularly surprising. In my long life, the most openly homophobic people I’ve encountered (at work, in college, at more than one social function) have been black. You can take that with a big grain of salt. But now it’s official; as a whole, blacks are at least as bigoted toward gays as Republicans are. Numbers don’t lie.
As for Obama, I supported him, and don’t regret that. But I feel like such a schmuck for getting swept up (if only for an hour or two last night) in the turning-a-page, “history-making” zeitgeist over Obama’s victory. Obama has shown as much spine in his opposition to antigay bigotry as Bill Clinton did a dozen years ago–which is to say, not much spine. Of course Obama is careful to add “gays” to his standard stump line about inclusiveness. Clinton did to, which shows you how empty those words have become. Bottom line, I’ll definitely be bowing out of the celebrations and happy-talk among my lib friends, at least for now. Yes. We. Can. My. Ass.
fredo777
You know, Dan, one could just as easily argue that if not for all of the young voters that Obama helped motivate to show up at the polls, we might have even lost by a far larger margin.
Obama is one person. He doesn’t favor gay marriage. That’s his business. He also doesn’t support Prop 8, which he has openly stated in an MTV interview. You can’t blame him for the actions of those who voted for him, when he didn’t actively tell anyone to vote Yes on Prop 8. I think you, like a lot of people here, just want to find a scapegoat.
Maybe if some of you had spent as much energy, effort, + money trying to fight this prop as you are trying to blame it on Obama + “the blacks”, it wouldn’t have passed.