Strange. I clicked on the windows purporting to show the clips and only got commericals (Crest, Microsoft).

I'm a fraternal twin, gay. My bro is straight. Shared the same womb. I guess I stole all the anti-bodies. Listen, I'm a grabby queen.

This is fascinating. It might be the strongest support for the 'nature' side of the nature vs. nurture argument.
While I'm not really sure what to make of it, the genetic argument for sexuality is the best way forward for a formidable gay rights movement.

But then you also get quacks calling for prenatal genetic testing.

Fine. Except that I am a the older of two brothers (I'm gay, my little brother isn't). What does that mean?

I am gay and my mothers only male child, the oldest. I'm leaning towards the antibodies reasoning. And it can't be social influences, I've known I was gay since I was 5.

More research to figure out how to eliminate us before we are born.

I'm the middle boy and I'm gay and righthanded except when I masturbate. My younger brother's gay and my older brother's married and pussy whipped and both lefthanded.

What does it all mean?

Just for the record: the older brother effect only AFFECTS right-handed men.

This report wasn't TOO problematic except that it completely excluded all socio-cultural factors involved in the emergence of the contemporary gay world, if you would.

Every man has a 2% chance of being gay? Where did that stat come from.. is it supposed to be based on the world's population or just the Western world? How can we compare countries that are so drastically different, thus altering the number of indentifiable "gay" men.

Althought I believe they identified these problems there was still a blatant overemphasis on the correlation between "femeniminty" and gay men. How many huge hairy bears need to parade around to dispell this stereotype.

Finally, there was a completely western definition of gay used, one that directly links attraction/action/indentity which is not salient or even valid in many countries throughout the world.

Ok.. ranting over

Boy, I don't know who they studied. Most of the gay men I know, including myself, are the oldest and only homo of several brothers...

Lame theory...if you have older brothers you are more likely to be gay, isn't that just probability? More males, means more chances of having one that is gay???

Yeah, I dont know if I can sign on to this theory. Of all my gay friends, I only have ONE who has an older brother.

Now that I think about it, out of all the gays I know, I only know a few who have older brothers. I do, however, know many more gays who grew up without a father.

Nonetheless, the show did not rule out social upbringing or other genetic indicators. It explicitly said state that, in the field of genetics, the number of older brothers is the only variable where empirical statistics are majorly correlated to homosexuality.

Christopher, people who predominantly have sex with others of their own gender are gay, whether or not they or their society admit it. That is the definition we use in the Western world, and it is the best definition for a study like this.

Now that I think about it, out of all the gays I know, I only know a few who have older brothers. I do, however, know many more gays who grew up without a father.

Nonetheless, the show did not rule out social upbringing or other genetic indicators. It explicitly said state that, in the field of genetics, the number of older brothers is the only variable where empirical statistics are majorly correlated to homosexuality.

Christopher, people who predominantly have sex with others of their own gender are gay, whether or not they or their society admit it. That is the definition we use in the Western world, and it is the best definition for a study like this.

Your site is perfect!

Jesus, people. Personal experience does not good science make. Statistics are applied in aggregate, in individual cases they breakdown.

Really, just because you don't know of any gay guys with many older brothers out there doesn't mean that they don't exist or that the science is flawed.

Frankly, on the opposite spectrum, I know of several guys who come from large families and the middle and younger brothers are all gay.

As for "Bears" being the representation of masculine, I'd strongly disagree. By your own reasoning, I know of many Bears with scented soaps in their designer bathrooms and who couldn't fix a car or swing a bat if their life depended on it. (But of course there are a few who could dismantle and reassemble an aircraft carrier.)

Mike, Christopher Ramos wasn't talking about just sexual attraction. He commented on the correlation between masculinity/femininity and sexual orientation that the study is trying to rely on--and not all cultures exhibit this correlation. (There's also the matter of bisexuality and all sorts of other things.)

All that said, I agree with Christopher that this study does have a polarized view based on the Western--American, really--stereotypes. And like he said, there are those hairy bears to think about...;)

Clearly she's new... However, comments are the BEST part of this blog. I have an older brother, and my father was gone most of the time, as well as being adopted: I hit the jackpot! :-)

Jack Scribe--you have to click "play" again after the commercials.

I have two older brothers and I'm gay, a gay girl to be exact. So maybe it does affect lezzies too. My little brother is a fundamentalist homo-hater, though. Go figure.

I have two older brothers and I'm gay, a gay girl to be exact. So maybe it does affect lezzies too. My little brother is a fundamentalist homo-hater, though. Go figure.

I think we have to stop thinking in a "one size fits all" manner. There probably isn't any single factor that lead to orientation but probably each of us came to our orientation differently.

Genes play a part - but they are not the only part. Hormones probably play a part. Maybe even for some folks there is some part played in the way they were raised. But there isn't some magic formula - take this gene with these hormones and this color bedspread and viola: gay.

Some who said here that they have older brothers may be affected by that hormonal theory. Others may be purely genetic.

We don't know as of yet and individual testimony doesn't really confirm or deny Bogaert's study.

For those bothered by the connection of feminine little boys and orientation, studies have shown that gender non-conformity has a very strong correlation with eventual homosexuality. Not all gay guys were queeny little boys, but most gender non-conforming little boys grew up to be gay.

There's a very good reason why we assume Ugly Betty's nephew will be gay.

"My little brother is a fundamentalist homo-hater, though."

Jesus Ash, that sucks. What's he like around you; does he leave you alone, or does he harrass you? A friend of mine had a great relationship with his sister until she became "born-again" and now she treats him like crap.

what i want to know ( as on older and only gay brother, btw ) is what in the HELL makes guys str8 ?!? who would wish a lifetime of nagging and lousy sex on their child ?!

Thanks for the sympathy, Paul. He's fine to me as long as gayness isn't brought up. When it (inevitably) comes up, he insists that gays die twenty years earlier and are all depressed, suicidal alcoholics. And when I'd casually mention my ex-girlfriend, he ignored me and changed the subject. He believes I will only be truly happy if I lead a celibate, partnerless life and worship this guy he calls "god." He was such a cool kid growing up, it's too bad.

I'm sure it has to be a combination

In response to el polacko: that's a pretty hateful, judgemental statement you made. You're buying into straight male/female stereotypes just like straight people buy into stereotypes about us. I have plenty of straight friends with fabulous sex lives and fulfilling emotional relationships. I know straight men who are more lesbianic than I am, and straight women who care about sex way more than their boyfriends do. It pisses me off when I hear queers hating on straight people because it's merely stooping to the level of homophobes. And it reflects poorly on you as a person.

In 1971 a group of gay lem ("consciousness-raising," of course) called The Bluebirds asked ourselves at our first meeting what we all had in common.

The answer: piano lessons.

I did have piano lessons as a child, perhaps that's it.

As for the brothers thing, i'm the oldest of three children in my family, and my brother and sister are both straight.

Actually, the older brother scenario would lend support to the "nuture" theory--unless somehow the mother's body had some unforseen enzyme that only produced after the birth of a male child.

I didnt see the segment, but it sounds like they found the results and then created a scenario that fit. I think its more likely that the statistics are skewed--that gay men that are only children or who have sisters are more likely to be closeted because they feel they are their parent's only shot at marriage/grandchildren/continuing the family name.

I am also the older of two biological siblings and am the only of the three who are gay. I've known I was gay since I was about five years old, but I do believe there might be a chance that subconcious social influences may have played a significant role in the development in my sexual orientation.

Little nature, lots of nurture is what I think. Let's say 10& biological, 90& environment. Vulgar replies will be rported.

"Mike says:
Now that I think about it, out of all the gays I know, I only know a few who have older brothers. I do, however, know many more gays who grew up without a father."

So? Basically a lot of the gay men YOU KNOW have no daddies. I know plenty of gay men who have close relationships with their fathers, plus I know many more straight dudes who grew up in single-mommy households. So if you're trying to imply that most gay men in general are gay because their dads abandoned them, then you full of crap. Or you have issues with your dad. Who knows. But there is a huge difference between the gay men you know, and the millions of gay men you don't know. So there. =P

And Hannah is about 10% bitch and 90% cunt. =D