Does anybody remember the historic lesbian kiss on her show?

That said, her remarks are clearly a bit absurd. She must not be reading any of the gay blogs that oppose the Iraq War or cover any number of issues well beyond the narrow scope of sexual identity.

I don't think it makes sense for gay advocacy groups (or any interest group, whether it's the ACLU or a breast cancer advocacy organization or the March of Dimes) to take on broader issues, especially with so much discrimation remaining in this country.

I can't say I really disagree with her. But where would the civil rights movement have go if black people hadn't been so "self-centered"? I love Roseanne and regardless of what she said on that day, she pioneered for us!

good for Roseanne. She's not uniformly right, of course, but we should take to heart what she is saying. "Gay" activism these days is a bunch of middle class white people agitating to marry so they can make sure their lover can get their money if they die.
Where are gays and lesbians marching against the war, fighting for minimum wage increases, holding the gov't accountable for racist education funding laws like No Child Left Behind or taking on the racist criminal justice and prisons system?

Roseanne's proven herself with the gay community. Plus, the way this is phrased, you can tell she's bringing up something she wonders about rather than accusing us all of something.

Sadly, most people don't care about groups that don't include themselves. I mean, everyone now is up in arms about Don Imus insulting a predominantly African-American basketball team. Where were they last week when that CBS commentator used the word "fag"? And today, when yet another celebrity called somebody a fag?

Personally, I think gay people are better about this, because we know politics and race and civil rights are all tied together. I've been to three anti-war marches here in New York, and I've been to gay bars that weren't as cruisy.

queertext, I think you are on to something. The Queer Right's movement has been largley taken over by middle class neo-victorians, who try so hard to prove how "normal it is to be gay".

Look at the recent articles about the "Guerrilla Barfare: We're Here, We're Queer, We Want a Beer!" How gays are descending on straight bars to promote "integration" and to show how "normal" we are.

One of the organizers "says it reflects where the gay movement is today. '[It's] the subtlety of making ourselves out there but not in a scary way. It's not all about Pride parades. It's not all drag queens. We're your neighbors.'"

How fast we forget that the Queer Revolution began with the rebellion of some very angry and fierce drag queens morning the death of Judy Garland......

So, just when did "middle class", "equality" and "integration" become bad words?

If you don't want to get married, then don't. If you want to restrict yourselves to the gay ghettos, fine. But don't attack me because I won't to do the former and refuse to do the latter.

Arrg! That should read "want to do the former"

She's totally pro-gay and totally honest. I don't agree 100%, and sometimes she says stupid things, but if anyone has a right to comment, it's her. You go, girl!

Ian D
You are also right. Forgive me for using the term "Middle Class". That really is the wrong world. I get wary of a revival of 50's values, repackaged as progressive. The goal should be more sexual freedom...not sexuality re-packaged with a Victorian bow.

I think it's fine to have all the things you described. But, I don't like how some of the Gay Activist have turned on "drag queens" and other aspect of sexuality.

There is too much bending to the Right. You don't see the Right Wing bending and tring to conform the Left.

I hear you Dusty on not forgetting the beginnings of this rights movement and the Stonewall! As a technical point, though, there is some dispute that the riot was caused by Judy Garland's death. See Carter's well-researched book called Stonewall. It's just a detail, but let's keep our history "straight" because it's really something to be proud of. And something middle-class sensibility can't take away from us.

Judy Garland morning or not...many of the Stonewall warriors were various gender benders. Trannies, drag queens, kings.

Ian, those terms aren't necessarily "bad," but to echo dusty, having them repackaged as "progressive" is bullshit.

And, by the way, if you aren't middle class and did not grow up with that privilege, it is a bad term: anyone who thinks that the American dream applies to all Americans uniformly, and should therefore de facto apply to gays and lesbians, is ignoring hundreds of years of inequality, slavery, oppression, economic and legal restrictions, etc. So there's plenty of reasons why same sex couples deserve the right to marry, but there are valid reasons outside of a "gay ghetto" life why some of us don't want it. Equality does not have to equal assimilation--or shouldn't, at least.

(And this constant comparison to Black civil rights is sloppy and often offensive, because you don't find gay communities taking the responsibility of undoing their own racism and white privilege. So let's argue for queer rights on our own terms, and not try and piggyback on other movements that are fighting to win their own battles. Let's help other movements win their battles...that's what Roseanne is saying.)

queertext, you're dead on!

The constant comparison to Black civil right (or Women's Lib) is absolutly sloppy and offenisive. Political equality should not be dependent on cultural and social assimilation.

That is what I find so fascinating about the "Guerrilla Barfare" article. It brings to surface a few interesting points:
1)Queers are one of the only "minorities" to have exclusive bars and clubs. Places that advertize as a Gay party/night. Yet, it is illegal to advertize a place as straight,white, etc.
2) There is a growing segment of the Queer movement that wants to be assimiated...to be embrassed by the establishment AND pushes away aspects of queerness that is "messy" or "ugly" to the sexual repressed bourgeois. "...making ourselves out there but not in a scary way"

Don't buy into Roseanne's stereotype. I know plenty of gay and lesbian people who are social workers, who belong to PETA, who fight for local environmental concerns, who work on women's rights and choice issues, etc. They do all this without a rainbow flag tatooed on their forehead, so they don't get credit for being both gay and concerned about issues other than gay rights. What Rosie SEEMS to be saying is that LGBT groups should work on all these other issues too. That's dumb. That's like asking Greenpeace to lobby for gay civil rights. Or like asking the NAACP to work on saving the rainforest. Individuals are multifaceted, but these groups necessarily need to keep focused on the issues they were formed to address or they become severely stretched and ineffective at anything. Rosie's comments were stupid, despite her past support for gay people.

dusty:
since when is having a gay club or a gay night at a club different from a Latin night or frat night or Irish night? Str8s are never not admitted to a gay club that I know of on the basis of their sexuality. Wearing two kinds of plaid, yes. Having Valerie Bertinelli hair, yes, But straight? no.

Here's the entire diatribe by Roseanne, where she blames Bush's rise to the WH on us:

"But I think [gay marriage] has backfired on you and people who think like you. I think when it started in San Francisco, puttin' gay marriage on the ballot, that's what made the Republicans win. I mean, it's actually the gay people's fault that they won because gay and lesbian people definitely practiced a divide and conquer mentality where, you know, it always has to be about them. And I have never once --and I say I have gay and lesbian people in my family -- never once in my 54 years have I ever once heard a gay or lesbian person who’s politically active say one thing about anything that was not about them. They don’t care about minimum wage, they don’t care about any other group other than their own self because you know, some people say being gay and lesbian is a totally narcissistic thing and sometimes I wonder.

I’ve never heard any of them say anything except for “accept me ‘cause I’m gay.” It’s just, it’s screwed. It’s no different than the evangelicals, it’s the same mindset. They want you to accept Jesus and you guys want us to all believe it’s ok to be gay. And a lot of us, a lot of them, I do, I don’t give a damn who anybody has sex with, as long as they’re not underage and an animal. I don’t give a damn, it’s none of my damn business. I’m just sick of all the divisiveness, it’s not getting any of us anywhere."

That's the problem with white, straight liberals like Roseanne, they want us to be their lapdogs and only speak when they want us to, but will grind us under their heel whenever they feel we are pulling on our leashes

By the way, I forgot to add; Stupid cow. The only person who has ever believed Roseanne was pro-gay was Roseanne. Does she beleive that the NAACP is a one issue group too? What about B'nai Brith? What about the SPCA? Or the American Cancer Society?

We're still the only group that it's ok to trash. People like Roseanne and her wet dream, Bill Clinton, did more harm to the GLBT community in eight years, than we could ever do to them in ten lifetimes. To hell with her.

she is only doing this because the release of her four emmy winning season is coming out on dvd.

me thinks queerty is going to benefit financially too. roseanne and queerty boys are in bed!

That's right, Rosanne is enemy number 1!!! Let's shun her forever for her clear and DEEP hate of gays!

Get real! She has never been much of an intellectual...give her a break. She also said this today:
" I deeply regret that I have offended gay people. I said things that I do not really mean, before I had thought them through... I was wrong and I seriously apologize!

Call me up today and let me have it! I will apologize and try to make clear what I really meant to say... which was that everybody needs to unite right now, and step outside of their own neighborhoods, groups, races and classes to stop Bush's war on our country and our people. I love gays and I hate division. I am just a big idiot with a big mouth sometimes. I will learn to be more careful! Please forgive me, I am so sorry!!!!"

I'm sure that won't be enough for the Fascist out there...who are going to demand her to go to rehab and meet with "members of the community". Pick you're battles people!

Thanks for the whole link, Paul. It's pretty ugly and indefensible. Hopefully she's just off her meds again and will rethink this once she stabilizes.
And for the record, Rosie: It is not "divisive" to demand acceptance, and if you take a look at any political movement - civil rights, immigration, environmental activism, the anti-war movement - you'll find tons of fags and dykes. I don't know where you've been for 54 years that you haven't noticed this.

Morning = time of day

Mourning = sadness

"before I had thought them through"

Maybe she should think before she speaks, then. She is not an amateur. She is a performer with deacdes of experience and whether I like it, or not; a massive gay following. That shit was hurtful.

"I'm sure that won't be enough for the Fascist out there"

dusty, are you channeling Matt Sanchez?

"Thanks for the whole link, Paul. It's pretty ugly and indefensible."

No problem, mc. That was beyond the pale, from a person who fought ABC to include a lesbian kiss in her show, along with recuring gay characters.

hey, she said a stupid thing. we noticed. she apologized. that's how it's supposed to work. case closed.

and lgbt groups she begin chanting for a higher minimum wage the moment the afl-cio starts lobbying for gay rights. we all have our focuses for a reason, folks. so we can get better at what we do. cross-polinating doesn't work for anyone.

Matt Sanchez! HAHAHAH Thanks

So often when a Lefty critics the Left, they are labeled a conservative. This is absurd.

The Left needs to learn to reform from within, and not be so fast to label everything we don't like or "hurts our feelings" homophobic, racist, etc. It makes it harder to sort out what is really hate-speak...and what is just dumb.

Shocker, Rosanne is not articulate! But, there is no doubt where she stands politically. So, I think it's stupid to condemn her. I think it would be more interesting to fish out what she meant.

roseanne's just uninformed and has it quite backwards. the issue many have with groups like the HRC and EQCA is that they are TOO involved in creating 'coalitions' with other groups and are doing very little to promote GAY rights.
as for the history : the modern gay rights movement grew from the same human rights movement of the early 60's that spawned both the black and women's civil rights movements, so there's nothing "offensive" about equating the movements, as some here have asserted. the ideals and political tactics were the same and gay men and women were involved in, and inspired by, the work of other groups. while stonewall was a pivotal moment in fighting police opression and energized the struggle for gay civil rights, it was by no means the beginning of the modern gay rights movement. that event was preceded by the political work of groups like the mattachine society and the daughters of bilitis who fought for the 'normalization' of homosexuality so easily scoffed at by the young "queers" posting here who are, apparently, unaware of how recently we were considered mentally impaired (and worse) by the medical and psychological establishments. further, there's nothing "middle class" about wanting equal marriage rights to secure things like medical decisions for a parter, hospital visitation rights, inheritance and survival benefits, tax equity, and so on.
these issues eventually impact us all regardless of class.
oh.. and anyone who thinks there's no such things as black bars or women's bars or latino bars, etc. doesn't get out very much.

Roseanne should take a look at the Rainbow World Fund, whose mission is "to promote LGBT philanthropy in the area of world humanitarian relief." (I'm not affiliated with them--but I think they put an end to the "they don't care about any other group" argument.)