With average Americans and blogs like Queerty questioning where President Obama is on gay issues, the mainstream media has finally taken up the issue. Rachel Maddow hit on Obama’s empty promises. The Times weighed in. Now CNN, above. Obama’s supporters can continue calling Obama “the most pro-gay president ever” — which we would agree with — but in the most GAY-FRIENDLY CLIMATE AMERICA HAS EVER SEEN, he’s still done virtually nothing to make good on his campaign promises. Glad to see the mainstream press catching on.
While individual states are passing same-sex marriage legislation without Obama’s help, and the Democratic controlled Congress moved through a gay hate crimes bill, there’s plenty of other work for Obama to do. Namely, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, which claimed Dan Choi as the first Arabic linguist dismissed under the Obama administration.
Obama’s defenders will say an act of Congress is required to repeal Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. Technically, they are right. But with THE STROKE OF A PEN, President Obama, who is our military’s commander-in-chief, could also tell the military to IMMEDIATELY STOP INVESTIGATING anyone for violating DADT policies.
It’s that simple. No, really. IT IS.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
President Harry Truman managed to kill segregation in the military with the stroke of a pen. Obama can cement yet another place in history by doing the same.
DeanP
I’m really done with the “well, X% is opposed so he can’t do anything.” How about our leaders actually LEADING? Isn’t the job of our statesmen to actually be statesmen?
The Gay Numbers
70 percent of the public supports repeal of DADT. How much higher do the numbers have to be before Obama repeals it- 100 percent?
tavdy79
@The Gay Numbers: That figure is, I believe, considerably higher than the support in the UK for repealing the British equivalent when that happened.
DeanP
It shouldn’t be a numbers game. I baffles me that the US is utterly incapable of looking to other countries. Canada and the UK repealed the ban; no problems. Now, some might say, well, they don’t have as big a military (even though they are taking on huge roles in Afghanistan). Well, how about Israel? No ban. Gay soldiers (including an ex boyfriend of mine) serve openly. And Israel is a country surrounded on all sides by many, many enemies and is vastly outnumbered. Surely morale and cohesion are just as important there?
This is also true with respect to gay marriage. I don’t know why those advocating for same sex marriage just don’t say to opponents who say the skies are going to fall “look, did it happen in Canada? No. The Netherlands? Nope. Belgium? South Africa? Spain? No no no. No churches have had to perform gay marriages they didn’t want to. No one has asked to marry their dog or sister or second wife. Straight people haven’t started divorcing in record numbers. God hasn’t hurt anyone.”
Roy Pyatt
Either Obama is a bigot or a coward and neither one deserves to president
getreal
@Roy Pyatt: No he is a canny politician who is smart enough to wait on the most important piece of civil rights legislation in a generation so it will pass once it is introduced. Every national survey says the American public are moving on this last month 9 POINTS! He is smart to let the numbers move in favor of marriage equality and to get some political capital so when this is introduced it is a success. Why people thought something so important and momentous was going to be the first thing he did I have no idea. It makes no sense unless someone has no idea of how Washington works. If people want to hate on the first President to ever really address gays and lesbians as a legitimate part of the American community in his acceptance speech go ahead the conservatives are loving it.
Inlokout
I’m sorry Queerty, I love ya but the headline is bullsh!t. At least in this report CNN does’t join the meme that Barack Obama is throwing us under the bus. I am so sick of this Me. Me. Me. Now. Now. Now. in the gay community. I’m gay and I get it. But we aren’t the only me’s on the planet screaming now. How can any of us throw a decent wedding if we are unemployed or the venue is flooded because of the global warming?
The states are moving along just fine without any word from the White House. In fact any kind of statement might energize the anti-marriage equality movement which would make further progress more difficult. I think the panel brought up some relevant points as I brought up on my website… Christ, nobody in our community knows how to be patient any more.
Before long I think we will be guilty of throwing Barack Obama under the bus.
Roy Pyatt
@getreal I only go by actions I cannot read anyone’s mind and saints be damned if he can’t stand up for whats right regardless of political pressure.
I am a tax paying citizen and deserve equal rights under the law no matter what the polls or pundits say!
The Gay Numbers
Dean- of course it should not be a numbers game. But even on their own terms, the numbers game, they have no justification for keeping the policy. That was my point. Not that we should determine fairness based on numbers, but for those who do, then how can they justify this discrimination based on the numbers?
DeanP
@The Gay Numbers: A good point. Though the more salient number should really be the % of people in the military who support repeal; but I think that even there, there is majority support.
Bob R
Obama lacks courage. I also think he lacks principle and really doesn’t believe in anything that will not benefit him politically. He learned a lot from Clinton. Cklointon did nothing that wasn’t good for Bubba.
It takes a courageous leader to get things done. It was Roosevelt and Truman that desegregated the military. The brass, including General Marshall, fought desegregation tooth and nail. Blacks serving in the military at the time were even called derisively “Roosevelt’s niggers”. There was resistance, but it was eventually overcome. Despite all the objections and the arguments about unit cohesion, morale, etc (the same arguments now used to oppose ending DADT), the President issued the order.
Even Eisenhower, a Republican, had the courage to send Federal troops to Little Rock to enforce school desegregation. Not a very popular decision at the time.
Kennedy and Johnson had the courage to enact the civil rights legislation that at the time was very unpopular and cost the Democratic party it’s “solid South” voting block to this day. Johnson knew that, but enacted the legislation any way.
But Obama, supports civil unions. Another form of “separate but equal” that was found to be unacceptable by African-American’s and progressives in the Democratic party. Separate is not equal. Civil unions is not marriage.
Obama thinks gay rights should be left up to the states. Allow the states to vote on gay marriage and other rights. I would venture a guess and say if states had been allowed to vote on civil rights for African-Americans, Obama would still be riding the back of the bus in every southern state and wouldn’t be sitting in the White House now.
For a fierce advocate of gay rights, his silence has been deafening. Gays are executed in Iraq and the White House says nothing. His public support of marriage equality and other rights issues has been minimal at best. It takes courage to really lead a nation. So far Obama has talked a great game, but he has done little else.
The Gay Numbers
It’s a majority depending on the question and how one looks at the numbers- basically its a combo of actively support the idea or don’t care that adds up to 50 percent or more. There’s a purality that hates the idea, but thats for 2 reasons a) the conservatives christians spent the better part of the last 2 decades stacking up the military with christo conservative crazies and b) homophobia based on either ignorance or hate.
Herbo
Obama’s “God is in the Mix with Marriage” quote makes me want to barf every time I think of it.
His civil unions (separate but not equal) thing is gross — as is his “it’s up to the states” BS.
Looks like a coward and bigot to me. It’s a citizen’s rights issue about EQUALITY not a ‘gay issue’.
Lee
I nominate Wolf Blitzer for head of HRC!
But, Jessica H. Christ, is it too much to ask for talking heads who know what they’re talking about?
Mary “Would You Like Me To Swallow George?” Matlin is YEARS behind in the polls on DADT, with 56 % of the public supporting repeal a week ago [and 81% in a different poll last December]. Lack of public support is NO excuse for Obama’s DADT paralysis
And Begala’s head was spinning like Linda Blair’s in “The Exorcist”…trying to grasp any excuse for Obama. Note. Begala was an advisor to Clinton during the DADT evolution disaster.
But thanks to all of you have refused to listen to such excuses, even from fellow gays, the volume of our protests are beginning to drown out the PPPPs…the Profession Pansy Pissboys for the President like Solmonese.
He certainly can never claim now that he didn’t know so many of us were confused and angry. I’d expect some kind of acceleration from Obama in the next couple of weeks, if only another paper airplace saying he’ll keep his promises “in time” or even a face-to-face sit down with the PPPPs.
And if he doesn’t, it will just be further evidence that we’ve been used.
Bruno
@Lee:
Mary Matlin is the Peggy Noonan of…that CNN clip.
tropos
Even though I am not particularly enthused by Obama’s silence on gay rights issues, I am far more tired of the constant Obama-bashing by Queerty. Are you guys getting paid by the GOP? Or are you just Republican sympathizers? Either way, its time for me to delete your RSS feed from my reader.
ben
@tropos:
Exactly. Surprised to say it, but I actually prefer the way the television is discussing this issue.
MAXWELL
@tropos: I’M WITH YOU MEN. THE CONSTANT BASHING IS A BIT TOO MUCH. AND AGAIN THE HEADING IS LYING. ALL THOSE PUNDITS ARE BASICALLY SAYING ” IT WILL TAKE TIME, AND BTW ,NONE OF THOSE PUNDITS BASHED THE PRESIDENT, NOT FOR A SECOND UNLESS THE AUTHOR OF THIS PIECE OF SHIT IS WATCHING A DIFFERENT VIDEO
Viktor
I think there’s a secret GOPer writing this or a bitter Hillary voter.
It just you are not saying anything new or enlightening. Instead of meaning folks angry, make folks figure out how to move their states in the right direction.
Again, you are dunk on the Haterade it’s ridiculous.
But this is a great way to get traffic
Viktor
I meant “making”…see I’m angry lol
The Gay Numbers
Except that I supported first Edwards, then Obama. I thought they both were bigots on gay rights issue, but I supported them nevertheless because a) I thought they meant what they said about supporting us and b) I thought would could pressure them. Some o fyou are nothing more than sychophants (Viktor). One of the reasons I su pported Edwards over Obama was that despite my problems with Edwards I did not have to deal with people like yourself who see all of this as entertainment. You are tourists to all of this. So when you get bored you say things like ” you are saying nothing new.” Welcome to politics. ther eality is that it takes these kinds of saying things over and over again to get through the wall of your stupidity.
Observer1000
If you wait until the majority supports an issue then you do not support minority rights.
Michael
I swear I loved this website alot last year. What has happened. I want my rights too and it’s okey to put the pressure on a president especially apopular one but the constant bashing? man who is writing this posts. I am worried that we have a GOPier beating up our drum, working us up and laughing. Lets push this president but lets be diplomatic man, otherwise from reading this posts? We are no better than the OBAMA hating fanatic right wingers who BTW also think we LGBT’s are the SCUM of society.
Audrina
WHAT MAINSTREAM IS CALLING BULLSHIT ON OBAMA ON “GAY ISSUES”? YOU MEAN FROM THIS VIDEO? IS THERE ANOTHER VIDEO I AM MISSING WHERE OBAMA IS BEING CALLED ON, ON GAY ISSUES?. I DONT SEE ANY OBAMA BASHING ON THAT VIDEO. I MEAN UNLESS I AM BOTH DEAF AND BLIND. GET OVER YOURSELF QUEERTY!
fitc
@getreal: There must be some kind of fairy dust that I can smoke so I can see through walls and know just how “smart” BO is for being a bigot. “57 states” and flying airforce one to panic a city is soooo “smart” … what a genius. You mean he can tie his shoes and string a sentence together with a telepromter? You really have to be so SMART to be a BIGOT.
Barack Obama is a Chicago style lawyer politician who is a liar like the rest of them.
My Little Pony isn’t real either, ok?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_rIAkb_v8
Dennis
@Michael:
You’re not alone…just outnumbered, and I’m frankly tired of talking to the wall. To reflect the quality of the new (or new-old?) editorial slant, all I can say is..
“This site was fun for awhile, now it just sucks”…
and though I ask repeatedly, repeatedly, NO ONE can name the magic savior, who can actually win a national election, and then give near perfection to us…who is it? name your pick, I’d still love to hear who this great hope is…who’s gonna do better than Obama as POTUS? ***crickets***
laters haters
fitc
@Michael: Awe some is holding My Little Pony to his promises the same as they did for W. This makes us crwyyy. There must be some big bad evil boogyman in there taling about our pony!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP_rIAkb_v8
fitc
@Viktor: @MAXWELL: We’re gonna cwrrry … how could anyone hold our Little Pony up to the same standards they held W? Why would anyone ever do that to our little pony. I can’t stop crying it hurts so much. Why can you just let us live in our fantasy world. We can go to other sites and getting on knees and worship Obambam but we come here because we want to cry about how “mean” you’re being queerty. We”re going to call upon a sea of pony’s!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4TedkQP_hM
DeanP
I’m sorry, anyone who thinks it’s just okay for us to wait while the country catches up, or that we should just be patient, should listen to the ringing words of the Supreme Court of Canada, when it decided that gay people were protected by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (the equivalent of the Bill of Rights), said:
[G]roups that have historically been the target of discrimination cannot be expected to wait patiently for the protection of their human dignity and equal rights while governments move toward reform one step at a time. If the infringement of the rights and freedoms of these groups is permitted to persist while governments fail to pursue equality diligently, then the guarantees of the Charter [i.e. Bill of Rights/Constitution] will be reduced to little more than empty words.
Dennis
@fitc:
F ucking
I gnorant
T roll
C unt
Your screen name provides important insight as to your character, thank you for making it so easy to discern. You provide such reasoned analysis of how Obama falls short of the mark, that you amply demonstrate everything that is so right about Queerty. Keep up the good work, and say hello to your little friend “heterodefenseleague”.
Kisses! (my ass)
Ceazer
@fitc: WTF are you talking about. This site stinks this days and coucou heads like FITC just proove it. Just like there are many coucou heads carrying antigay messages at the right wing rallies. This just stinks. Give me my queerty back, pleaaaaase. Who runs this site these days????
mbb
“With average Americans and blogs like Queerty questioning where President Obama is on gay issues…”
Really? Do you have evidence of “average Americans” (what does that even mean anyway?) “questioning” Obama on gay issues?
I bet if you asked them, they would probably support taking things at the pace that Obama is (they support him on nearly every other strategic and priority decision he makes). This even applies to the ones who support repealing DADT.
You guys are nuts. I feel your pain but you’re not seeing anything very clearly.
benjamin
WHO IS RUNNING THIS DAY NURSERY CALLED QUEERTY? WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR READERS ARE?A BUNCH OF KIDS TO BE TOYED AROUND WITH? SOMEONE PLEASE SHOW ME A DESENT GAY WEBSITE THAT ACTUALLY MAKES SENCE AND REPORTS NEWS ACCURATELY? i KNOW YOUR INTENTIONS ARE GOOD. WE ALL WANT EQUAL RIGHTS BUT THIS WEEKLY INSULTS, IF ITS NOT MISS CALIFORNIA, ITS THE PRESIDENT, OR SOMEONE ELSE.iTS DISGUSTING.
Viktor
That website is Washington Blade…Queerty is just trying to keep traffic so it won’t fade out like the rest of its former blogs (Jossip, Mollygood)
The Gay Numbers
Except again, other major sites like Huffingtonpost (which gets far more traffic than this site or the Washington Blade) and news outlet such as Rachel Maddow, CNN, The NY Times and the Washington Posts are all running similar articles raising similar questions.
When you are ready to grow up, you may want to read them Viktor rather than pretending these conversations are just happening to raise the numbers at this site. I have no problem getting on this site’s case for crappy reporting or screw ups, but yoru arguments are the worse kind of Obama supporter arguments. I count myself as his supporter, but not in the way you are.
benjamin
@The Gay Numbers: CNN, AND HUFFPOST ARE NOT BASHING THE PRESIDENT BUT RATHER REPORTING WHAT IS HAPPENING REGARDING DADT, READ THE HEADING OF THIS ARTICLE. IT’S CRAZY. BTW I READ THE HUFFINGTON POST ARTICLE, SADLY 3/4 OF THE BLOGGERS WERE NOT SO GAY FRIENDLY ABOUT THAT SOLDERS STORY. THE ARTICLE IS STILL THERE. GO AND READ THE COMMENTS.IF YOU THINK LIBERALS ARE YOUR FRIENDS, THINK AGAIN. MY POINT IS THAT THIS SITE IS GETTING NASTY. IF THEY REPORT WITHOUT THAT CHILDISH/ PEREZ HILTON LIKE GARBAGE NTHEN THEY MIGHT LAST. BUT THE WAY I SEE IT WHEN PEOPLE WILL BE TIRED OF OBAMA BASHING THE SITE WILL BE DEAD!
afrolito
The only place bashing Obama is this, and other gay sites. The president is still riding high in the polls, and extremely popular in this country, and abroad.
The ludicrous headline that the “average american” is questioning Obama’s stance on gay issues is pathetic and laughable. People are losing their homes, and jobs, yet they have to time worry about fags getting married? Puhleeze.
mbb
You know Queerty has jumped the shark when it begins breathlessly reporting news “stories” Fox News-style in ALL CAPS.
mbb
What do you guys thin? would happen if Obama ordered the military to stop investigating. What would happen when a Republica is elected? Could DADT be repealed permanently by Congress if Obama antagonized them by skiping the democratic, legislative process?
Also: Truman didn’t have a pesky Act of Congress to deal with when he desegregated the military.
Do you guys even care about the facts?
Sapphocrat
@Roy Pyatt: Oh, Roy, don’t you know this is all part of the Obama’s Sooper Seekrit Master Plan plain folks like you ‘n’ me are just too darn stupid to understand?
I know this must be true — his fans tell me that every day. Every single day. Every single damned day.
Remember, Obama’s the Smartest Guy in the Room, and we’re — well, we’re just watching our lives ebb away, every day one day less to enjoy the almost imaginable exhilaration of full citizenship.
Pragmatist
A correction to the title, please: “Mainstream Media join Queerty In Calling Bullshit on Obama’s Empty Gay Promises.”
There are lots of media out there and lots of media organizations. And, contrary to popular perception, they’re not all connected in a mass conspiracy. In other words, media is a plural noun, not a mass noun.
Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Grammar Police.
spindoc
Where are the politicians brave enough to bring up a bill even if it may fail?
Alex
OK MAINSTREAM JOINING JOINING QUEERTY IN OBAMA BASHING? DO YOU MEAN FOX NEWS? BY THE WAY FOX IS ALWAYS BASHING HIM BUT NOT FOR GAY ISSUES. INFACT FOX THINKS OBAMA IS TOO NICE TO HOMOSEXUALS. YOU MEAN THAT VIDEO-WHICH THE PUNDITS ARE BASICALLY SAYING-LETS WAIT HAS CONVINcED QUEERTY THAT MAINSTREAM IS ON THEIR SIDE? QUEERTY LIVES IN CLOUDE NINE FOR SURE
samsam
why do illegal mexicans have more rights than me again, why?. And to make things worse, they are all homophobic.
Bob R
@mbb: Obama wouldn’t have “an act of Congress to deal with” on DADT if Clinton had issued the executive order instead of buckling to Colin Powell’s threats of mutiny. You remember Clinton, another Democratic “fierce advocate” for gay rights who gave us DADT and DOMA? With a clear mandate in Congress and the majority of American’s opposing DADT, Obama could get Congress to eliminate this ban. He could also, as Commander-in-Chief order an end to the discharge process, although that would probably give the GOP fodder to use against him, but as C-in-C he could take such an action. Still he remains silent and does not work or ask surrogates to work as advocates for the repeal. You are not as concerned with facts as you are for making excuses for Obama’s failures and shifts in policy, not just in regards to gay issues, but other issues as well.
Landon Bryce
@samsam:
I’ve had my penis inside too many illegals to share your bigoted views.
mbb
@Bob R: What evidence do you have that he has not asked his “surrogates” to begin working on repeal? There was a House committee meeting on it recently, right?
What other “issues” have I ever made excuses for Obama on? Are you stalking me?
How is it a “shift” in policy if he still supports repealing DADT? Are you arguing policy or tactics?
It’s been a bit more than 100 days now, with two wars, a financial crisis, a Supreme Court nomination, a torture investigation, etc., and there is a bill pending in Congress but your chief complaint is that Obama doesn’t force them to take it up?
Do you guys understand how politics work and the dangers of pushing a policy without getting stakeholders on board, not just on the issue but on all “issues.”
DeanP
@afrolito: Yes, because we should be forced to sit by and wait patiently to be treated equally. Give me a frakking break.
Change “gay” for “black” and you would have an entirely different set of priorities.
Carolyne
@DeanP: well gay i’snt black.thank you
DeanP
@Carolyne: Oh and that makes it so much better, then. We’re only 5% of the population, so it’s A-OK.
Bill Perdue
@Landon Bryce: “illegal” is a bigoted description of immigrant and imported workers. They work and pay taxes and that’s not criminal or illegal.
Mexican and Latin American imported and immigrant workers, like all of us, are being ruined by Obama’s welfare for the rich and austerity for working people. They however face even more pauperization because of Bill Clintons NAFTA, a law which passed by a bipartisan super majority, like other parts of the Clinton legacy including deregulation, DOMA and DADT.
Because both the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and NAFTA refuse to take into account immigration, immigrants did what they had to do to escape the poverty caused by US depredations on Mexico and Latin America in general.
Bill Perdue
For now the interliked questions of same sex marriage and DOMA are the central questions.
Many of us would like to change the focus to ENDA but that won’t happen overnight.
DOMA was put on the books by a bipartisan super majority of Democrats and Republicans who then immediately began using it as a wedge issue against each other. The Democrats lost the ‘wedge wars’ but not for lack of effort. The Associated Press reported on October 17, 1996 that: “After angry complaints from gay-rights advocates, the Clinton campaign on Wednesday replaced an ad running on religious radio stations that boasted of the president’s signature on a bill banning gay marriages…”
In spite of the hopes of people who identify with him or who had delusions about his imagined pro-LGBT program, Obama is definitely a clone of Clinton and Bush. He and his Minister of Pandering Dubois are winning the ‘wedge wars’ with bigoted comments like “gawd’s in the mix”. He tosses us a few crumbs but is definitely on the side of bailouts for the rich and austerity for working people, for a maximum effort at pandering to bigot votes with minimum concessions to us and he’s actually escalating the war in South Asia. Color him Nixon.
His silence is insulting and it perpetuates anti-LGBT bigotry in the face of a sea change of public sentiment moving in our favor. As Desmond Tutu, the only cult leader worth his salt said
Alec
@Bill Perdue:
No, the terminology itself isn’t bigoted, it simply describes their immigration status. It says nothing about what the speaker or user of the term believes about the correct policy on immigration. This is an example of oversensitivity.
christian
mexicans make me sick!go back to mexico! you think us white people are racist? yes we are if you cross over illegally. and most of you are homophobic anyway
Bill Perdue
@christian: “you think us white people are racist?”
Was there ever any question about it? It’s certainly true of you and that other racist chucklehead @samsam:
————————
@Alec: Mexican and American trade unions, leftists and immigrant rights groups describe the term ‘illegal’ as bigotry.
Here’s a video from “Labor Beat’s coverage of the national Immigrants’ Rights Strategy Convention. There’ll be further national gatherings and you should ask to speak and explain why you think they’re “oversensitive”. Hire bodyguards. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8475562554128985695&hl=en
It definitely makes sense that Alec, channeling Roy Cohn, would find opposition to bigotry “oversensitive”. Alec is usually on the wrong side of the trenches.
Alec
@Bill Perdue: That you think I’m remotely similar to Roy Cohn is a source of amusement, but that’s it.
Yes, I find knee jerk reactions to use of the term “illegal” oversensitive. It says nothing about the speaker’s views on immigration and simply refers to the status of the subjects the term references. The New York Times uses all of the preferred terms interchangably:
Again, the terminology says nothing about one’s views. The alternative terminology that is offered can also be misleading. “Undocumented worker” suggests peope who simply lack documentation to show they are not entitled to work legally in the US. “Unauthorized” is a bit better than either term, but in any case none of the terminology is bigoted unless used in a bigoted context.
Bill Perdue
@Alec: The labor movement does not support Obama’s racist attacks on imported and immigrant workers.
Our wee Alec, ever the apologist for war, bigotry and economic superexploitation.
Your renownmed ability to channel Roy Cohn by mimicing his rebaiting McCarthyism, you’re chosen profession as a lawyer (the third oldest profession after prostitution and politicking) and the fact that like him you toady to one of the twin parties is proof positive of your similarity.
Who really gives a rat’s ass what terminology the NY Times uses? You mentioned it as filler to repeat your charge that imported and immigrant workers, trade unionists and Latinos are ‘oversensitive’ to bigot terms like “illegal immigrant”.
Let us know if you think @christian: and @samsam: are being sensitive.
Bill Perdue
@afrolito: The only place bashing Obama is this, and other gay sites.
The only question we have is why you haven’t been able to figure out why most GLBT sites and most of the comments on them are so critical. (Hint, it has something to do with the fact that he’s a bigot.)
There are a few right wing LGBT sites that still like him but even his right wing buddies are beginning to turn on him.
Alec
@Bill Perdue: I think those comments are intolerant, wrong headed and, at least in one case, bigoted. That doesn’t change the fact that the use of the term “illegal immigrant” does not imply any sort of bigotry.
Your objection to lawyers, prostitutes and politicians is noted.
Last I checked, I’m opposed to war, bigotry and even “economic superexploitation,” a term that has only the most vague of meanings. You’ve determined that I am an “apologist” for these things because some members of my political party support them, or have supported them in the past. That would be as loaded as holding you responsible for the Stalinist crimes.
How is it a bigoted term, by the way? Is stating “I support citizenship for illegal immigrants” a bigoted term? That’s my view. I fail to see the bigotry. Perhaps you could enlighten me?
The Gay Numbers
Sometimes in reading bill one gets the sense he does not read or listen to what others say at all. So Alec, you are saying you do support a way to citizenship for illegal immigrants? Because the funny thing is, if you do, that is the best way to prevent exploitation and ironically to achieve both conservative and liberal goals in that it takes an underground economy into the open. There’s this book- I can’t remember its title- that discusses this. That Americans make the mistake of turning things like drugs, illegal immigration and prostitution into a crime rather than bringing them intot he light where we can have greater control over what’s happening. I believe that maybe Bill’s point? I can’t say. The thesis is that if you do that then for example with illegal immigration you can bring that income into the economy rather than it happening off the books where people can be exploited. It wold in turn help domestic workers because this pressure for domestic wage arbitrage is reduced (of course there is stillt he labor wage arbitrage by trade agreements but that’s another conversataion). The point is that it is a better result for addressing the illegal immigration issue for all involved. What gets in the way is naitivism and racism.
Alec
@The Gay Numbers: Yes, that’s my position. I’m opposed to the drug war, criminalization of prostitution, and I’m for completely open borders, truth be told. With immigration, while I agree that the state has an interest in regulating its borders, I think that what this boils down to is the presence of millions of residents with a murky or illicit status, who are often exploited and who are here to take jobs that Americans usually will not. As a practical matter, citizenship makes the most sense to me. And that’s been my position since at least 2006.
What Bill objects to is the fact that I’m a liberal Democrat, and not a radical/Marxist.
Bill Perdue
@Alec: If you say “I support citizenship (or the preferred dual citizenship) for imported and immigrant workers” that would not be bigoted. “Illegal immigrant” is a term promoted by bigots and it’s a bigoted term, and that does not excuse you and the NY Times when you use it, but it does ly illustrate what side you’re on. The wrong side
You knowingly voted for Obama, a clearly anti-LGBT bigot who said he’d widen the war and enrich the rich. What you voted for is what you get. Unfortunately so do the rest of us. Wrong side again.
“Economic superexploitation” probably does sound a bit distant to a lawyer lounging in a comfy office but it has real meaning in sweat shops employing minority, non-union, imported and immigrant workers and in the NAFTA inspired child labor shops all over the world. The ones owned by rapacious US corporations who hire US lawyers to make “economic superexploitation” easy and profitable. You’re on the wrong side of the class divide.
Let’s see now. One wrong side. Another wrong side. That’s two. And a third wrong side.
You’re out.
Alec
@Bill Perdue: Yes. I’m sure that criminal defense attorneys are doing their part to keep the good guys down. You sound a bit like a prosecutor.
Your other “claims” aren’t worth addressing.
@The Gay Numbers: See what I mean? This is about ideology, and his fixation with a rejected brand.
The Gay Numbers
Yes, Alec, I know. I figured that out a while ago that one can say the exact same thing as Perdue is saying, and he will still decided you are bad. He does not care about the issues. This is an in-group,out-group exercise for him. That’s why I do not debate him. I was writing what I wrote for your benefit and mine. To understand your position, and to suggest you stop trying to convince Perdue. You are not going to overcome his issue with you.
samsam
why are we afraid to confront this illegal immigrants about their homophobia? main stream media treats illegal immigrants with kitty gloves and keep shitting on us gays. Ilegals AHOULD NOT BE HERE!!! Period.They are downright scared of black people and cant say anything to offend them. They are scared of offending women too. why are they tolerating constant homophobia. it’s not my fault that i am gay.
Sapphocrat
@samsam: It may not be your “fault” you’re gay (as if!), but it is your fault that you’re a despicable bigot and an embarrassment to all evolved life forms.
You’re also painfully transparent. Back to FreakRepublic with you, and all the rest of your obvious multiple-personality sockpuppets on this thread. Your lame attempt at infiltration didn’t work.
Sarah
IDEA:
On July 4, 2009, all gay people serving in all branches of the Military announce that they are gay, loudly. Get on television, print or any media outlet available.
Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell will be gone in one week. All you have to do is stand up for yourself. You are gay. Be proud of who you are.
Staying in the military, you are complicit in the discrimination of all gay people. Don’t be a tool.
You are being used by a Government that does not value you as a person. A Government that see you as “less than” straight Americans.
Remember, July 4, 2009 — Out In The Military Independence Day!