In a piece for Slate, noted author Nathaniel Frank hypothesizes that the “love the sinner, hate the sin” crowd is having their cake and eating it too — and we’re letting them.
They feel that being gay is immoral, yet claim to respect and love gays (while denying us actual rights at every turn).
This is in turn allowing people like Duck Dynasty patriarch Phil Robinson who believe gays are immoral get to escape responsibility for the judgment that’s an inherent part of subscribing to such beliefs.
So we pose the question to you, Queerty members: Is It Possible For Conservative Christians To Love Gays While Believing Who We Are Is Immoral?
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Dakotahgeo
This coming from the bearded fool who loves the gay but loathes the sinner… un huh!
Caleb in SC
No, Phil has shown his true colors — racist, homophobic and quasi-pedophile. THAT is the future of the GOP.
truckproductions
I love all Christians.. But I hate Christianity and think it should be outlawed..
RSun
I am crystal clear with Christians (and other religious people too) whom I encounter that if they think I am a sinner because I am gay that I have no room in my life for them. Definite deal-breaker.
MikeE
you cannot judge someone for who they are and at the same time profess to “love” them. the two are mutually exclusive.
I love Christianity. It’s these supposed “christians” I dislike. Everything they profess to believe goes completely against the very teachings of Christ as written in the New Testament.
Whether Christ was a real person, or a fictional character, makes no difference. To say that you follow the teachings of someone yet contradict that at every turn, is hypocrisy.
TomMc
@MikeE: “To say that you follow the teachings of someone yet contradict that at every turn, is hypocrisy.”
Indeed; well put.
samwise343
The answer is no. Murder happens all the time, namely to people of all religions. Do Christians who suffer when one of their kin is murdered, say to the criminal, “I hate what you did, but I still love you.”?
Spike
Best thing to do is just ignore conservative christians. Why care what they think or believe?
The only thing we should be doing is demanding more Tom Daley posts!!!!
Dakotahgeo
@samwise343: Yes, quite frankly… TRUE Christians will, in time, do just that. We have no choice if we are truly Christian. The conservative christians, on the other hand, most of the time forgive no one. It isn’t in their Biblical genetic make-up to do such humane things.
Pistolo
The people who claim to love gays in spite of their gayness almost make me angrier than those who are just outright hateful because it’s like they’re insulting my intelligence. It’s such a low, condescending, despicable, and disgusting thing to essentially say “I love you -in spite- of the huge chunk of your inherent being that I consider blasphemous”. What am I supposed to do? Embrace someone like that with tears in my eyes? I’m not dumb enough to believe that’s anything more than a disclaimer on their prejudice against me.
Sparkyu1
Absolutely not
No-one loves me who thinks my personhood is inherently immoral, who denies the validity of my family and believes my only chance for morality is either to live the rest of my life alone or to magically change a fundamental part of my being (which, aside from being impossible, also shows they would only “love me” if I weren’t actually me)
GayTampaCowboy
To answer the question, YES. THey are free to “love” us AND belive we’re immoral – that’s their faith and THEIR CHOICE to belive in their faith. The ISSUE is when they ACT on their faith and vote AGAINST marriage equality, gay adoption, anti-discriminiation laws, etc. BUT, to them, voting against gay rights as a “manifestation of putting their faith in action” DOES change the issue 100%
It’s like republican’s who are PRO-LIFE but know that Roe vs. Wade is the law of the land and don’t try to roll back women’s reproductive rights. They get flack for it, but THAT is consistent at least!
There are also several republican govenors who belive marriage is between a man and a woman, but DO NOT stand in the way of marriage equality in their state. YOu can have your PERSONAL beliefs, but when your beliefs turn to action that HURTS others – you’re gonna get called out on it!
the other Greg
@truckproductions: “I love all Christians.. But I hate Christianity and think it should be outlawed.”
LOL, that’s a good analogy. Yes, it’s destructive to society when they practice their icky religion and lifestyle.
TheNewEnergyDude
NOPE
kyle.alagood
Loving the sinner but hating the sin tends to involve a lot more hate than love. It’s been true through the ages. Although such philosophy may be theoretically possible, it is practically impossible.
As I wrote in Huffington Post a couple of weeks ago, “Phil Robertson and like-minded conservative whites believe gays like me are ‘full of murder, envy, strife, hatred. They are insolent, arrogant, God-haters. They are heartless, they are faithless, they are senseless, they are ruthless.’ In truth, we gay Louisianans are full of fear. Imagine living day-to-day among people who think you are a murderous, hateful, ruthless villain.”
The same story rings true for many gays whose day-to-day lives involve close interaction with religious conservatives.
Philip B
I propose an alternate question.
Is it just possible that yobs like those on DD are yet another reason that an increasing number of people in this world check the “NONE” box when asked about religion?
2eo
No, it’s literally impossible to believe someone to be against god, whatever that is and still genuinely love them.
The two ideas force a compromise of the mind one way or the other, either you marginalise your faith or you marginalise the persons homosexuality.
DarSco
If you can condition yourself to believe something MOST of the time there is no changing that. If you condition yourself to believe that something or someone is bad and the only examples you see of the bad thing confirms your views you are going to believe it!
Chico
No. They just say that shit to pay us lip service.
ChiChi Man
Screw compassion. You need “compassion” when you think someone has done something wrong. LGBT people haven’t done anything wrong by being who we are. We deserve acceptance.
RainboWarrioR
this is the same horseshit i get from my parents. we love you buy you are living in sin. my PARENTS who CHOSE their religion say this to me and why? bc they dont even try to understand who i am. they dont try to even think for themselves. they are among the morons that thing global warming isnt real.
i get this from them all the time. im still living with them atm btw and of course they would say that its bc of jesus love that im still in the house. oh arent they merciful. they make me sick and all christians like them. i cant wait to be able to move in with my fiance in NJ and kiss this family goodbye.
so in short hell no. and it IS bc we allow this to happen. and then oh dont you love it when you get onto these assholes about this and then BAM! youre persecuting my religious beliefs how dare you?
sick people.
2eo
@RainboWarrioR: Well said RWR, if someone chooses their chosen absolutely arbitrary faith over their own flesh and blood then they are not worthy of being considered human, let alone parents.
Joetx
@Sparkyu1: Yours is the best answer.
Steve Rider
Christians claim they still love teh gays in order to ease their own conscience and provide themselves with an excuse they can use to pretend they are not flaming assholes.
MK Ultra
Only if life is an Orwellian dystopia and you believe hate = love.
samwise343
@Dakotahgeo: I wish TRUE Christians would speak up more often. All I hear from Christians are complaints about liberals being hypocrites. Christians and other hardcore religious people are TRUE hypocrites.
Bellerophon69
According to the Gospels, EVERYONE (including so called compassionate conservatives) is a sinner, and according to the Old Testament gay acts are a sin. So is laying in the same bed as your old lady when it’s that time of the month and eating pork. I highly doubt that g’d ole boy Phil follows those rules yet he looks down on us for living a life contrary to what was written 2000 plus years ago. To look down upon others for their sins is a sin in itself according to Christ, so I wonder how Phil Robertson (who I still cannot believe has a Masters in English, a language he shows no mastery of) feels if we gays were to love him despite his sin of hypocrisy; which Jesus railed on against numerous times in the New Testament while making absolutely no mention of homosexuality.
robirob
Conservative Christians don’t even love themselves. How can they love someone else?
Ogre Magi
@truckproductions: Ditto for me, except the first part
hyhybt
It’s possible, but it’s often hard, and too many don’t bother but pretend they do, or just use the idea as a cover.
Forget about the whole gay thing for a moment, because the disagreement over whether that’s bad in the first place gets in the way. Loving someone doesn’t mean thinking (or pretending) that everything they do is good. That you love someone may even be the reason you mind so much when they do wrong.
The real problem, in our case, is the combined insistence that something is bad that isn’t, and that therefore people must be treated as less in the public sphere, and especially by the government, because of that belief. Whether opponents love us or not doesn’t, in that sense, really matter.
RayJacksonMs
No. I think bigots and cultists are immoral and I sure as fuck don’t love them.
2eo
@hyhybt: You never did answer where Atheist correction camps are located?
Will you answer now?
jimbryant
The great strength of Christianity is “love the sinner, not the sin”.
In any case, I think Phil Robertson and his clan are guilty of a multitude of sins as listed in the Bible.
Merv
Christianity is a deal breaker for me, as well. If I find out someone is a Christian, I will try to avoid him as much as possible, same as I would avoid anyone who advertised he was a Nazi or KKK member. I’m not going to waste any time on a bigot. I don’t believe in discrimination against Christians in employment or public accommodations, but they should be shunned socially. Their hatred does incredible damage to society.
samwise343
@jimbryant: Christianity and any religion that requires money to exist is just a bunch of foolishness. No surprise that you support it.
Infomaniac
To answer the question that was posed, Yes, it is possible for Christians to love us even if they think we’re immoral. This is what they’re commanded to do in scripture, the problem is they REFUSE to do it. There is no burden for the gay community in today’s church, which is why the attitude of “let ’em burn” is so pervasive. Love the sinner, hate the sin is the biggest lie perpetuated in the Christian community.
There are prison, gang, and addiction ministries – all fully supported by churches across the globe. But when it comes to LGBT’s, Christians won’t bring themselves to share their faith and instead, opt to shut themselves off from us completely. It’s because their leaders know our so-called sin is something that can’t and won’t go away. I grew up in a fundementalist Christian environment, accepted Christ as my savior when I was eleven and still was gay no matter how much I tried to “get right with God.” Thankfully, I reached a point where I was able to accept the fact God loves me for who I am unconditionally.
hyhybt
@2eo: Why should I? The question was irrelevant and nonsensical even in the original thread, whichever one that was, and has not grown any less so since.
Trent T
h@hyhybt: You are correct in your first comment.
I have no problems with people who don’t like the fact that I have sex with men as long as they don’t try to stop me. I found many Christians can look past that and still like you and even love you, in spite of something they don’t believe in. I don’t agree with how many people live their lives in other facets and I still love them. I don’t see how it would be any different.
jimbryant
Don’t bad-mouth Christianity. Christianity is a good belief system. Its values have enabled society to maintain an order. The problem, as with any religion, is its adherents. There are many people who claim to be Christians. Beware the frauds.
2eo
@hyhybt: You asserted that Atheists are guilty of the same crimes as religion, I asked you to prove it, you didn’t, you won’t because you simply can not.
religion is a poison at the core of our species.
hyhybt
@2eo: I never claimed the acts were exactly the same. Please, if you’re going to make such claims, link to the thread; I have no idea which one it even was.
KDub
Is it possible to be gay without thinking all Christians are you worst enemies? One silly question deserves another! The goal is to attain equality, not to try to force people to be “okay with” your personal life. Desperation for people to approve of sexuality just gives the opposition way too much power. I only care about equal rights. People think whatever they want.
DonW
@jimbryant: But they don’t think they’re frauds. Who decides who a “real” Christian is? Every time (and they are countless) self-identified Christians pull some horrible crap, apologists like you claim they are “not real Christians.” Maybe the real problem is a belief system than suppresses independent thought and encourages mindless obedience to authority.
James
I think you can if you show the kind of love Lance Bass’ mother does:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lance-bass/the-first-thing-my-mom-di_b_4556471.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009
Kangol
@RainboWarrioR:
Have strength, and I wish you the best with your fiancé.
It’s exhausting to have to keep telling “Christians” that they are not following the New Testament example of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who never once mentions homosexuality, never once, and who is very specific about how to treat others, but what can you do? People, especially loved ones, who will not listen, will not listen. What’s also disgusting about these Duck Dynasty buffoons is that they call themselves “Christian” but this lead patriarch creature also expressed r@cist attitudes too. How un-Christian can you be and still call yourself that? I know the answer, we all do, but confronting people like this man rather than allowing him to wear the mantle of “Christian” has to happen more.
Steve318
Hating the sin while loving the sinner is disingenuous. Until Christians stop classifying consensual sex acts, other than the heterosexual missionary position between married adults, as immoral, then their sexual bigotry justified by religious piety will only continue. So to answer the question: I don’t think a bigot can love the object of his or her bigotry.
Hank
No one should care about this lout think.