oh fuck off, Tikihead

we’re just playing and a bunch of passionate fucktards

for GayInc, lambda legal et al. to decide that NOW they want to join (seeing what a great case Chad Griffin had built with his awesome team) with no real reason is, as you said, laughable.

To me, it seemed a logical next step to take this case to the federal courts…if gays were too blind to see why GayInc wouldn’t want this to happen, just look at their champagne and caviar donor dinners and paychecks…

I am pretty old myself

I saw that by the mid-1990s the LGBT community was now in synch with gay pandering/profitable ORGS who have since interfered or mismanaged or misled the community and never ONCE had FEDERAL EQUALITY as their mission statement — until we saw California’s Prop 8 debacle on the night of Obama’s great victory for the hopeful.

Now we have a change of heart and mind — and want MORE than the first 40 years delivered.

didnt mean to offend –
but the gay marriage angle was never a verbal concern until recently and certainly not for any LGBT 45 yrs old or older.

when the new generation will be able to look back at 2 Democrat administrations that screwed GLBT rights due to greed or religiosity — they will know there is no other choice but to start only spending and voting for government who can say ‘gay full equality’ with no mention of ‘personal religious beliefs’.

okay — I is done.
read the TheDallasPrinciples.org and teach your twink pals and children.

We’ve made unbelievable progress. Petulant comments suggesting that hard won progress is a “fairytale” are an insult to the Stonewall vets, the “gay liberation” crowd, the HIV activists, and the everyday folks who lost jobs, family and friends to be out.

It’s always great to know that the “next generation” thinks that the old queens (who, of course, created this world that you are now living in with all of its glorious possibilities) are just a bunch of cautious curmudgeons who don’t know jack. You’re welcome.

I don’t think so, not for the next generation of activists —
This generation can easily see the only real way to fight is with dollars and votes and loud united protests.

We have a Constitution that gives lots and lots of power to the states. Exploit that for our benefit. By doing so, we can substantially increase our chances of winning at the federal level.

While I agree that we’ve turned the corner on DADT, ENDA, and Hate Crimes, we’ve not done so on marriage…not even close. The majority of Americans are not there yet and neither are Congress, the White House, nor, I strongly suspect, the SCOTUS.

We have lots of examples where trying to move the federal government too soon does way more harm than good. Lifting the military ban polled way better in 1992 than marriage equality does in 2009. Trying to grab the Federal ring too soon set us back a generation. Same thing for Bowers v. Hardwick in the court system. We were screwed for a generation. There are also plenty of non-gay examples as well (like Dred Scott).

Our system does not and should not work top-down…never has, never will. It’s one of the reasons we actually do stay UNITED. Change has to come from the states.

Obama and the Dems will do zilch for us otherwise –

One of the big reasons that the current admin won’t be able to accomplish anything . . . Blue Dog Dems.

But literally hundreds of details are involved in drafting legislation, and gaining a consensus even among Democrats is proving to be remarkably _ if predictably _ difficult, despite their large majorities in both houses.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....29057.html

when I think of the MILLIONS the Government kept from dead gay’s social security benefits — and then you have Obama signing a defence of DOMA brief saying gays would be a financial BURDEN if we could federally marry? How dare he.

I am DONE with counting states and seeing states flip/flop due to
bigoted ballot measures corrupted by church groups.

we live in the United States.
If we are not UNITED – then we have NOTHING.
We are 2nd class losers living under apartheid. No thanks.

Look, I get it that we’ve not made any progress federally, but that will only come after we win substantial state battles. But implying that state victories don’t count is both unfair to all of the folks who worked so hard for those victories and it’s just stupid. On ENDA and Hate Crimes, we’re just about there. But marriage will take time. It sucks, but it’s patently absurd (and factually incorrect) to suggest that we’ve not made progress. When I was in high school virtually none of this existed and I certainly never believed that I could marry a man. In only 20 years, that reality is completely different.

” We’ve made enormous progress on gay rights and marriage.”

In what fairytale ?

but read my SS benefits item ^^^ and ask yourself if you want to be the US Government’s continued non-recognized slave-labor (no tax breaks and no spousal survivor benefits) for another 50 years?

I dont…and why haven’t the gays gone APESHIT over being used loke this before now? oh yes — we had to deal with a pandemic that our GOV’t and FDA ignored for years…a generation of men (and earners) were wiped out.

Bring on the Federal Supreme Court battles !!!

I am sick to my fucking guts of the socially acceptable American apartheid. We deserve better, kids — we have for a long ass time.

@TANK: Do you really think sabotage? It sounds to me they’re trying to supplement Boies/Olson’s inadequate, slapdash approach with some arguments that might actually win.

@Cam: Awww, you got me. The ACLU does lobbying about Guantanamo and free speech. You can’t honestly tell me THAT’S what you were talking about when you wrote this:

“It sounds like they have FINALLY figured out that the community is not happy with them selling out our civil rights to maintain their lavish DC parties and access to congressional offices.”

The gays are good earners – and when we die – our benefits don’t go to MOM and POP. They only go to a FEDERALLY recognized spouse or child ONLY.

These groups are not HRC, people. It’s Lambda Legal, NCLR and the ACLU,”"

See, this is what kills me, people just type out B.S. and either lie about it or haven’t bothered to check the facts. I’m pasting right here, a section RIGHT OFF THE ACLU’S WEBPAGE

“”Although there is some overlap in the work done by each organization, certain activities the ACLU does to protect civil liberties must be done by one organization and not the other. This is primarily in the area of lobbying. The American Civil Liberties Union engages in legislative lobbying. As an organization that is eligible to receive contributions that are tax-deductible by the contributor, federal law limits the extent to which the ACLU Foundation’s may engage in lobbying activities. Therefore, most of the lobbying activity done by the ACLU and discussed in this Web site is done by the American Civil Liberties Union.”"

——-So which is is Nick? Are you lying or do you just type things without knowing your facts?

bootlicker.
yah so?

Tank ol’ buddy I knew you would come around.

yup Federal IS all that counts (wake up !!!!!!!)

just go ask the married gay widow in Massachusetts
who cant get a DIME of her spouse’s FEDERAL social security survivor benefits as of today…this very moment.

A fifty year plan, indeed. aww hell no.

You think Alabama would have gone happily along with civil rights for blacks in 1965?

or Utah will go kookoo for gays anytime soon?

No – you need the Supreme Court to DEMAND equality for all in ALL of the USA.

State by State…paleeease

Maine is now facing another Prop 8 fiasco, and for what?
so the Churches can show they have better propaganda machines?

That’s the argument. THat we need more individual states on board before a federal lawsuit is initiated. This is a recipe for a fifty year plan.

These groups, the motion says, “represent much broader diversity among same-sex couples than the two Plaintiff couples (or any two couples by themselves), [and] would facilitate a more comprehensive examination of the harms inflicted on same-sex couples by Proposition 8’s exclusion of those couples from marriage.

That’s it. I’ve changed my mind. I think that these groups need to stay the fuck away from this lawsuit. It does seem like they’re trying to sabatoge it by having themselves added. Non starter as it is, their intent seems clear given their criticism of it from the outset.

But I guess they were just joking, since Federal is all that counts.

oh so that’s it

If it isn’t a GAY MAN up there winning FEDERAL EQUALITY than you a are a bitter bitch? How very Rev Al Sharpton of you.

You all are bigoted against the retarded too !

assholes –
so, go sit in your apartheid toilet bowls in the gay ghetto and dream of a better day. But it’s not a priority – since you have not thought FEDERALLY before. So much easier to send tax-write-off checks to your Non Prof gay orgs and feel important, right?

losers

Olson/Boies/Griffin are the ONLY ones who have said (during this administration of our “fierce advicate”) that we have a HUMAN RIGHTS issue here in the USA and it should be dealt with FEDERALLY (the only thing that counts) and this state-by-state waiting game is a joke.

This lawsuit was filed five weeks ago, and these groups have been in the press about it since day one. Maybe you should read a newspaper. Not johnny-come-lately at ALL.

Pathetic bullshit. We’ve gotten every gay rights advance ourselves with these organizations. Now these two dudes on an ego trip with a bankroll from a bunch of rich, privileged Hollywood types are going to go on a rampage, without listening to any advice from the communities they’re pretending to “help.” It’s easy for them. If they lose, they can go back to their lives with hardly anything changed. But we’ll be paying the price.

And to say these groups having achieved anything just shows that you are completely out of touch with what’s going on in gay rights. Educate yourself. And quit your own damn bitchiness.

Johnny Come Latelies to the FEDERAL SUPREME COURT fight, dipshit.

Olson/Boies/Griffin are the johnny-come-lately types here. Maybe you should read something before you shoot off your ignorant comments.

or in your case —
clueless, gutless, I-am-okay-with-separate-but-not-equal adults.

can you imagine?!! The same undermining orgs who CONDEMNED a federal lawsuit initially and were more than thrilled with USELESS state-by-state wins (which mean NOTHING federally), now want to join in the fight and feel ENTITLED to join!

It reeks of everything you are, Tank. I pity your ilk. But that’s ok, you can enjoy the FEDERAL equality when the real leaders deliver it to your door. Ofcourse your doormat will be covered in mailers from the ineffective Non-Prof gay orgs seeking more of your money.

……………………….so are you calling me a bigot or a faggot? Get lost, adults talking here.

which is why you shrug over whether or not you want to considered equal in the USA (United States of Apartheid).

I may have the hots for a receding hairline
but you are you are still salivating over Obama’s winning smile!
youve heard of him, right? Our spiritual-leader-in-Chief who has “so much on his plate” that gays will be in apartheid for years to come even IF all his separate-but-noty-equal promises come to pass.
Bigot

I’d rather be a faggot than a bigot.

Useless, polite, anemic Iago.
They told us not to use anger, and not to respond to the Mormon and Baptists and Catholics.

I couldn’t give a fuck about your excuses. Chad BLEW IT. HE LOST, along with everyone else associated. Now this case that the admirable and dyslexic david boies is in front of is a nonstarter.

As your you finding this disgusting pig of a man sexy, that pretty much sums up your support you vapid, shallow faggot.

A FEDERAL lawsuit for full equality was never the original idea of the gay orgs (except maybe The Dallas Principles).