Portuguese model Renato Seabra, who is “not gay anymore!,” didn’t just bash journalist-activist Carlos Castro’s face into a hotel television on Friday while killing him. Nor did he merely take a wine corkscrew to Castro’s testicles and castrate him. In new court papers, prosecutors say Seabra also strangled Castro, snapping part of his neck, and stomped on his head so forcefully coroners found shoe imprints on his face. The brutality of murder, to which Seabra confessed, might make it hard for Seabra’s counsel to claim self-defense, or even put together a “gay panic” defense (Seabra says he was sleeping with Castro only for his money and fame, not because he loved him). Prosecutors will show the attack didn’t just last a few minutes, but went on for an agonizing amount of time, with Castro ultimately dying in a pool of his own blood, his face bludgeoned and his scrotum detached from his body.
Jonathan
This person is a monster and should be put away for the rest of his life for such a brutal, inhuman crime. What possible imminent physical threat could have existed that would have forced this strapping young man to stomp and mutilate a senior citizen to death?
Nightstalker
Nobody’s hit the “More Please” button yet?
scott ny'er
Wow. My first thought when I heard this and even more so now, is Renato is so ashamed of being gay and hates that he is so much, he took it out on Castro, in a fit of blind-rage madness and violence.
I could be wrong and maybe he is just a plain, evil monster (I mean, he is a monster either way, but one way, he’s inherently evil, the other he’s self-homo-hating), plain crazy or who knows what.
So terrible.
justiceontherocks
@Scott – My sense is that you’re exactly right. At the very least he was tormented because he slept with the guy.
John
I hope they have trouble finding a vein and have to stick him a few dozen times when he gets the lethal injection…
JKB
Renato got in over his head, and when, after six months, the dividends of his decision to be with Castro weren’t paying off, he snapped. The sacrifices Renato must have felt he made in order to get the money and fame Castro “offered”; his friends, family and love interests all were put to the side for his plan to become successful. Then, when he realized he lost everything for nothing, and would be branded as something he was profoundly ashamed of, he went off the deep end. Was Castro naive and believed Renato was there for love? I hope not.
scribe
To be beaten and murdered by a person you are in a sexual relationship with for months must be horrible. I can’t imagine what Castro must have thought while this was going on. Even though he was paying (supporting?) this dude, having this guy in his personal space, taking him around the world, introducing him to friends says to me that he trusted this kid, if not loved. I hope that Castro was passed-out or dead during most of the acts against him. r.i.p.
i_dunno_but...
@scribe: oh I hope so. this story is so horrendous, I can’t begin to find the words to describe how sad it makes me. poor guys – both of them
Daine
People forget one thing about this case: Carlos Castro was in love with Renato. This wasn’t a fling to him. He even announced it on a special event, although he didn’t mention Renato’s name.
As a portuguese gay male, Carlos Castro was important for the LGBT culture. He was the only out celebrity that I knew off in the 1990s and unafraid of speaking about LGBT rights. He was the organizer of a very popular drag show in Portugal, and he was committed to AIDS causes. Not to mention a famous columnist and a writer.
BlobMan
Cute boy, too bad his a killer.
luke
That boy is sexy.Let this be a lesson to all the old guys that date young men.If he had dated a man his own age maybe he would be alive.
scribe
@luke: right because old dude can’t be crazy???? it’s a fact look it up 🙂
Jeffree
Seabra may have succeeded in killing a gay man but he didn’t kill whatever gayness he has in himself.
Holy Shit!
Personally, I think Seabra’s mention of “demons” is very telling- only a deeply disturbed person could have done something like this. I also think the magnitude of his actions (mutilation, bludgeoning) indicate that he was emotionally invested in this murder in a way that he would not be if he had, for example, just shot or strangled Castro. This, for me, points out that this murder wasn’t just about money or being “exploited”- this is about identity, and Seabra’s inability to reconcile his own with the expectations of others. Simply put, he wouldn’t have tortured and mutilated Castro for AN ENTIRE FUCKING HOUR if he didn’t in some way care about him beforehand. If he had just wanted to get rid of Castro, he would have done it quickly. The brutality of his actions reveals an emotional struggle, an attempt at self-excorcism (through the murder of Castro) and ultimately, the depths of Seabra’s own guilt for whatever he may have felt for Castro.
Yeah everything about this story is profoundly upsetting to me. I think all the violence and depravity move this firmly out of the “fit of rage at being denied presents” scenario that others have painted, and into the territory of “psychotic self-loathing meltdown”. The stuff of great tragedy, to be sure, but horrifying to witness in real life.
tjr101
Wow, who knew evil could look so pretty!
Davey Wavey's Vagina Monologue
@Daine: More like he was in love with his age. Kid was barely out of diapers, gimme a break.
An elderly man is not a spring chicken. In no way, shape, or form was in just oh so in love with some pretty young thing. He bought a boy toy, he cut off said boy toy, and the boy toy snapped.
Somehow I doubt the man didn’t know he was playing with fire either. From the quotes this kid is spewing the crazy didn’t just come out of nowhere.
People don’t just snap like that for no reason and the guy obviously knew this dude was unbalanced from the start.
Saying an old man loved a prostitute he knew damned well he bought and was obsessed with living a lavished lifestyle in exchange for sex is just plain naive.
In short: If you have to buy Baby new shoes for him to put out, it’s safe to say Baby don’t love you.
Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice
@Holy Shit!: Europe has rejected it’s Christian heritage in favor of atheism and look at what this has sown. Bloodthirsty killings and demonic possessions!
Ken S
@Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice: “Demonic possessions?” Even if the very invocation of them wasn’t retarded, why would an atheist who doesn’t believe in them– as you seem to assert the murderer must be– blame “demons” for his behaviour? That’s like saying “I don’t believe in carbs” one minute and then blaming the ones in your cake for making you fat the next.
In other news: I do so hate when psycho killers are *so* pretty. But I suppose we can all indulge in some pornish day-dreaming about the treatment he’ll receive in prison. Can you imagine the love letters this twinkopath is going to get from dingbats with a thing for “dangerous, misunderstood men” though? If we could tax the stamps on them we could fund HIV research for a decade :-/
MattGMD
A previous NY Daily News article referenced a hotel guest in a room across the hall from Castro who reported a loud and distinctly acrimonious argument earlier in the day of the murder. Wonder if Mr. Castro was on the verge of ending the relationship? I can see Seabra’s rage especially how he vehemently denied being gay. Possibly facing being rejected (in his foggy mind) by *gasp* a gay man when Seabra likely felt he, the younger allegedly sexy one of the couple, should decide.
Adonis-of-Fire
He should receive death by a thousand cuts, and they should do it on public tv, a 24 hour special, cutting pieces of his flesh and pouring vinager or lemon and salt on his wounds, until his legs and arms are stripped of meat.
Anyways, it’s just horrible, obviously a psycho monster…
And why in hell would he care about if others thought he was gay or not? he is gonna rot in jail either way, it’s not like it matters now.
Fabulastic
Meanwhile, here in Portugal, family, friends and neighbours of Renato Seabra are doing vigils in front of his local town church to show their support for the «innocent young boy», «corrupted by the lustful desires» of a vicious old man.
What we here hear the most is «Something must have happened to the boy commit such an act.» Meaning, the queer got what he deserved…
An extra small but spooky detail: when took to court the so-called model was sort of numb with dead fish eyes all of the time. In a brief moment, when the judge asked if he wanted the presence of the press. He looked up, said no…and smiled! Hitchcock would love him…
( http://queerpitcher.blogspot.com/2011/01/le-sandal.html )
David
The old man was using the boy and the boy struck back.He is innocent the old guy had it coming.
Soupy
Whatever he is, he is not innocent. There is no self defense strategy for this case.
scott ny'er
@David: What? The old guy deserved to be killed? Ummm, OK.
Crazy talk.
Jeffree
@scott ny’er: Based on David’s wobbly “logic” Hugh Hefner should have received the same “treatment” about five times or twenty years ago !
— — — — —
Whether Seabra and Castro’s relationship was mostly pay-for-play or not, it’s clear Seabra was benef.itting from their being together in terms of his own life-style and career. No one forced Seabra to be together w/ Castro and Castro probably would have been able to find am equiv. replacement if Seabra just packed his own belongings and walked out the door.
Adonis-of-Fire
@David:
LOL, he was innocent and being used? He was being pampered and spoiled, in any case HE was using the poor granpa
Spinny64
Unfortunately, this is a very common story. I blame the old guy, he is 45yrs older, Renato is from some small town and he is introduced to all these “goodies”: money , fame, and like a carrot I am sure the old guy brings him to New York. From what I understand Renato is a shy, calm, religious young man. As someone who knew him from Cantanhede, Portugal described him: “uma joia de rapaz”, or a jewel of a young man. As described by his friends, he certainly had everything going for him: a good personality, a good nature, and, in this world, it didn’t hurt that he is stunningly handsome either. A tragedy all around. But more so for Renato. Here’s a young man whose young life is irretreviably changed. As horrible as it was the way Carlos Castro died, the far bigger tragedy still is Renato’s lost future. I suspect Renato is the good, decent young man his friends and family say he is. How could he have fooled those who knew him best all his life? When Renato got to New York the time came, which was inevitable that it would, that he had to face the fact that he had sold his soul for fame and money. He probably became totally disgusted with himself because it dawned upon him that he had become the exact opposite of who he truly was. And here is this old queen pushing him on to continue to “deliver” and thus engage in behaviour that he found totally revolting. He snapped and lost it. And, unfortunately, we all know what ALL human beings are capable of, including myself and each of you reading this comment, when we lose all reason. I am very sorry for Renato, his friends, and his family. God bless you Renato and may your life be restored as best as possible and that you be allowed to return to Portugal and live your life in peace with your friends and family, the way I’m sure you always intended to until you made this very tragic, and very wrong choice of pursuing fame and fortune with the likes of people like Carlos Castro.
Soupy
Dear Spinny, I trust that you are saying the same prayers for Jared, the Arizona shooter.
Spinny64
Soupy,
Different circumstances. Arizona incident appears to have been very premeditated. NYC incident doesn’t appear to be… just a sad chain of events that escalated to a tragic end.
tony x
@Spinny64:
Sorry the “old guy” did not make the other guy have sex – he chose to whore himself out for fame.
Then his self-hate was inflicted on another human.
Very sad you sympathize with a killer.
Jeffree
@Spinny64.
Seabra was not the victim. He had the option, always, to leave Castro. There are many better ways to end a relationship than killing your partner.
As I stated earlier, Seabra killed a gay ma but he did not kill whatever gay feelings or thoughts or memories he had inside him.
ArtCore
A word from Portugal:
Renato Seabra went to church every sunday and through out his life help the priest on the cerimonies. Probably the fact that he was from such a religious small town, made him do all of this barbarie. Being portuguese and seeing how things work around here, i can tell you religion has a lot to do with, if not all.. The ppl from his community even made a human string, after a mass, to show support and to ask God to save him from jail, since he is a goldn boy, son of a good family, and he only did that because he surely was being hold against his will, and made to have sex with Carlos Castro. Everybody with a functional brain knows that’s bullsh*t. They were together since octobre, as a couple. The problem was that no one could knew or else he would have been cast out. Homophobia is so present in this country that’s not even funny. And yes we have gay marriage, and yes we have gay couples randoming freely on the streets (getting evil looks but nothing more than that) but it’s all “for the world to see”, sort of speak.
Lots of ppl support him saying he did well. Unthinkable. Shocks me how the main point of all of this horror story is “to prove that he is not gay”. It’s ok that he is a sadistic murder, but gay, no way!
So yes ppl… unfortunatelly this is the oppinion of lots of ppl in the country. The rest of us, well the rest of us have a brain.
Thank God that this happen in a country where he will actually pay for what he did (or so i hope!). If this had happened here (where the max you can get is for murder and for 25 years), he would be out by now, if even arreste…
Shame on us.
Spinny64
The best thing would have been for Renato to have walked away, no doubt about it. Again, we ALL know what human beings are capable of when we lose reason. Again, I include myself, and, if you’re honest with yourselves, it includes everyone reading this comment. Renato lost reason temporarily. Whether he should have sensed he was approaching that point in time and stopped himself and walked away from the situation, I’m sure he wishes he had. I wish he had. But by the time he reached that point, it was too late. We’re dealing with human nature and all its accompanying flaws. I am in no way sympzthizing with a killer. I am very saddened for the loss of this young man’s future, who by all accounts was an outstanding individual prior this tragic event.
Soupy
The best thing is that you will never make it past the voir dire phase of jury selection.
Spinny64
I’n not a New Yorker, thank God. So I wouldn’t be in the jury pool.
Soupy
No, I meant you wouldn’t make it past in any jury selection in any state.
Spinny64
Soupy:
Perhaps, perhaps not. My point is that as I read more details of this story, including the portuguese language accounts, it just reminded me of the tragic consequences one bad choice can have on an individual. I understand portuguese due to my previous international assignments in Brazil and personal travel to Portugal. It was through the portuguese stories where they interviewed his friends and family that I gained what little insight I have into who Renato was as he was growing up. From those accounts, unless he managed to fool everybody all the time as he was growing up, comes accross a portrait of a well balanced, decent young man. A young man who made a horrible choice by deciding to compromise himself and puruse fame and money by pursuing a “relationship” with the likes of people like Carlos Castro. I really do wish Renato well, but recognize that what he did is horrible. It’s truly a shame that such a promising young life may no longer reach its full potential, all because of one bad choice.
Dani
Well then if he succeed to get away from jail lets say because he had a judge with the same thoughts of yours, take him to your home and i bet if this have ever happened to one of your beloved ones no matter the age, sexual orientation you would think it again for all you say… what goes around comes around.
Dani
Sppiny64:
Well then if he succeed to get away from jail lets say because he had a judge with the same thoughts of yours, take him to your home and i bet if this have ever happened to one of your beloved ones no matter the age, sexual orientation you would think it again for all you say… what goes around comes around.
Soupy
Spinny, you seem to offer the murderer every consideration under the sun, yet portray the victim as “the likes of people like Carlos Castro”? Did you know him personally? It seems as though you have already judged him and sentenced him to death. Good riddance, I suppose.
Someone
Its not right what the kid did! But for people to comment on someone without knowing the background or even understanding the different cultures of that country is stupidity! I have seen several clips of Renato. One thing i can assure He is not gay. Nothing in his actions the way he speaks insinuates he is gay, at all!
Personally by seeing the nature of the crime, I would say that Renato was being abused by Carlos Castro!
After all the Renato is 21 years old, and Carlos a 65 year old man that only liked young boys.
Knowing the Portuguese culture I assume Renato was in lured by Carlos with promises of a better future. He probably confused the boy to the point of making him wonder of his sexuality. His ingenuity, made him trust this man just to be used by him at the end.
Messages on FB could mean a lot of things! I personally cant read any messages between them. looking at several videos, I can say Renato was shy, and dont see any evil in him. This is a crime committed by someone that had been abused. Yes! Psychological abused and disgusted by what they had to go through, someone that was disgusted by what they were doing, probably wanted to stop and was threatened by Carlos.
After all Carlos was one of the worst bad mouths columnists, that the only pleasure they have is talk bad about other people.
No saint there!
I dont have anything against Gays, I really think they are nice people!
But this one I just think he was a chauvinist pig, who only liked pretty boys, and would take advantage of the innocence of any young ones who werent strong enough to say no!
SO believe me when I say that the kid had no evil in him. He had no experience! He was being used and abused, and that was his way to say no more!
Although its not right what he did, to me there is no difference between that and someone being in captivity for several months going trough psychological abuse, who knows even physical abuse, and thats the way he found to free himself.
WTF
I dont care what you guys say! Seabra should be extradited back to Portugal! He is not an US citizen not even a Legal Resident. We already have to many people in jail that we need to feed, pay guards. Come on! they just raised my State and Federal taxes to lower my Social Security. By the time I retire I wont collect enough to buy food, and put a roof over my head.
Let Portugal deal with this after all they are both Portuguese! Meantime he is going to cost us more here if he stays for life. Ohh! My!
WTF
I dont care what you guys say! Seabra should be extradited back to Portugal! He is not an US citizen not even a Legal Resident. We already have to many people in jail that we need to feed, pay guards. Come on! they just raised my State and Federal taxes to lower my Social Security. By the time I retire I wont collect enough to buy food, and put a roof over my head.
Let Portugal deal with this after all they are both Portuguese! Meantime he is going to cost us more here if he stays for life. Ohh! My he cant stay here after 3 months he will be illegal! Send him back
reason
@WTF: Your suggesting that people should be able to come here and commit heinous crimes then leave?
Ken S
@Spinny64: “As horrible as it was the way Carlos Castro died, the far bigger tragedy still is Renato’s lost future.”
You have a perverse, deranged perspective on the value of a person’s reputation versus the value of a person’s *life.* Even IF Castro was “an old queen” taking advantage, it would be just as valid to call Renato a gold-digging call-boy. If there wasn’t a gun to his head then he was willing, and if he was willing then he isn’t some innocent victim. He was on-board because their ‘relationship’ was gainful. If he didn’t like sex with a sugar-daddy then he could have given up the parties and the clothes and walked away any time he wanted, *without* brutally torturing another human being to death.
Embarrassment is *never* a bigger tragedy than murder. And it’s disgusting that you’d insinuate as much.
Soupy
Someone, you really can’t assume another person’s sexuality based on any second hand account, can you? Your assurance that Renato is not gay means nothing. Nor do the motives that you attach to the crime.
Soupy
Your defense of Renato and your maligning of Castro is reprehensible.
Dani
You two look like children disputing who has the last word, something that goes nowhere. I am really enjoying this. It’s really funny 🙂
Spinny64
KEN S:
I never used the word “Embarrassment” in any of my comments and I don’t see, or believe, it has anything to do with this situation. What I absolute mean is this: Nothing good ever comes out of two people using each other. But at the same time, in this case one person is 65 and the other is only 20. I grant you that by 20 you’re an adult and should know better. Also, in the case of Renato, it appears that his pursuing this “relationship” with Carlos Castro violated every precept of his nature and who he truly was. Once again underlining that you have to be true to yourself and that nothing, certainly not all the fame and money in the world, is worth comprimising yourself. But remember, Castro was SIXTY FIVE years old. There’s a certain higher level of responsibility that comes with age. As bad as it was for Renato to be using Castro, it is far worse the way in which Castro was using Renato. Regardless, very tragic outcome no matter what, especially the loss of a young man’s future who by all accounts was an outstanding individual.
Soupy
Also, in the case of Renato, it appears that his pursuing this “relationship” with Carlos Castro violated every precept of his nature and who he truly was.
“appears” is the operative word there. I guess that homophobic family members and friends would be reliable.
I don’t care if he won the nobel peace prize, someone who commits an act like he did is not what I would consider an outstanding individual. But maybe all 20 year old models and hustlers are.
Spinny64
@Soupy:
The accounts I’ve read concerning Renato state that his friends and family and all those who knew him well as he was growing up in Cantanhede, Portugal as well as those who know him from University in Coimbra are that he WAS and IS a fine, decent young man. I should not have used “appears”, I suppose. They are totally incredulous about this situation. This is why I find it hard to believe that Renato could have fooled literally EVERYBODY as to who he truly is thoughout his entire life. On a personal note, I will own up to to being biased. But then again, we’re ALL biased in one form or another. I have younger children than Renato and cannot fathom the idea of some filthy, disgusting queen even approaching them. Remember, the initial contact came from Carlos Castro when he approached Renato via Facebook. What is a disgusting old queen of SIXTY FIVE doing going after a young man only 20 years old? This in no way excuses Renato from choosing to go along. Still, the higher level of responsability rests with Castro. Additionally, my brother married a lady from Portugal and they have three children, one of whom is a young man also 20 years old. Like Renato, he also is a calm, rather shy, respectful, handsome young man. I love my nephew very much and the thought that any filthy old queen would even dare approach him the way Renato was approached by Catlos Castro is enough to drive me crazy. I would venture to say that I would be the one who would lose reason at the thought of anyone, especially a disgusting old queen like Carlos Castro, corrupting my nephew.
Soupy
Your repetition of “filthy old queen” really points to what your problem is. Did you expect his catholic family to say that Renato was a fun, pleasure-loving homo? Do you think that he came out to them? Why do you think he responded to Castro on facebook and hooked up with him? You continue to malign and devalue the life of the true victim, and that is disgusting.
Peter
WELL, I THINK SPINNY64 and CREAMY, OPS….SOUPY ARE HOT BUT THEY ARE SPINNING MY WHEELS hahahahaha
Spinny64
@Soupy:
Aside your rather disjointed response, exactly how would you describe Carlos Castro? As to why Renato responded to Castro when Castro contacted him via Facebook, I don’t know. I can only speculate that Renato saw an opportunity to further his modeling career and ambitions by befriending someone like Castro. Horrible choice on Renato’s part which led to his compromising himself. I completely agree that Renato is responsible for his decisions, including his decision to pursue a “relationship” with Castro, including his thinking that he could use Castro for his own self interest. Nothing, absolutely nothing good even comes out of a situation where two individuals are using each other. I’m sure Renato now wishes he hadn’t responded to Castro’s advances and that he had never even heard of Carlos Castro.
Soupy
I would not characterize Carlos Castro, as I did not know him personally. Clearly, you calling him a “filthy old queen” must be a result of you knowing him personally and forming that judgement. The same goes for his murderer.
Spinny64
@Soupy:
I never met Carlos Castro. Wouldn’t want to. As with Renato, my opinions are based on the portuguese language articles I read. What do you think of SIXTY FIVE year old self-proclaimed queen going after a young, inexperienced, and up until the tragic event in New York, innocent 20 year old who was not wise to the ways of the world, particularly the world of the likes of people like Carlos Castro? You don’t have a problem with that? Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade.
Ken S
@Spinny64: Since “SIXTY-FIVE” is such a big fucking deal to you, perhaps you can draw us a graph where the “x” axis represents a person’s age and the “y” axis depicts the value of their life as a human being? I mean, I’m 31, so how young of a guy would I be able to hook up with before I deserve to be tortured to death? Or how old of a guy should I tolerate flirting with me before I gouge his balls out with a corkscrew and stomp on his face until I leave bootprints? What if he’s brain damaged and has the mentality of someone 20, or 50 years younger? Or what if the younger guy is just “really mature?” Is there some system of passes and vouchers that you’re officiating?
You keep pecking at that as though the rest of us are just supposed to take for granted that because he was in his sixties that he was bad, or shouldn’t have pursued an attractive younger man, or that he somehow had it coming for “corrupting the youth.” It’s a gross spectacle to watch, and makes you look like nothing more than an ageist prick and an apologist for a gold-digging murderer. Or maybe you’re just trying to lay the P.R. groundwork so that when he starts getting your love letters in jail he can look you up and see that you’ve been a devoted supporter of him all along?
Soupy
I can’t determine Spinny’s motives. Either he is a homophobe (which always makes me wonder why one would choose to blog on a gay site), or he is harbouring lustful feelings for a disturbed young man, and that he is ashamed of those feelings.
If you would like me to leap to conclusions as you do Spinny, I will conclude that Renato is a sick, slick, greedy, hustler, a sociopath and a murderer. And to you, his life is more valuable than Carlo’s.
Peter
I think Spinny64 and Soupy have a crush on each other. What do you think guys ???
Spinny64
@Ken S:
It’s not that the AGE of 65 is a big deal. But, as I’ve stated before, being 65 carries a higher level of responsibility than 20. You’re supposed to be more mature, exhibit better judgment, and live your life accordingly. Just as I expect a higher level of responsibility from myself than I do from my children. Thus, although both Renato and Castro are equally guilty of using each other, it is worse the way Castro used Renato considering his more mature age.
Spinny64
@Soupy:
That this discussion is occurring on this particular site, I don’t care. It’s just another forum as far as I’m concerned. As for my “feelings” for Renato, don’t have any. Never met him and probably never will. As I have said in earlier comments I posted, this story did resonate with me given my own children and also my one particular nephew who is of the same age as Renato and of Portuguese background from his mother’s, my sister-in-law’s, side. The thought of a disgusting old queen going after a young man like Renato and corrupting him really makes me wary of anything remotely similar happening to any of my children, whom I love beyond words, or to my nephew, whom I love very much as well.
Soupy
You see, once again, you are characterizing the victim as a “disgusting old queen” and that he “corrupted” a young man. When it’s equally possible that a conniving and manipulative young hustler “corrupted” a loving and vulnerable older man. I hope that your nephew won’t do that.
Filipe Bastos
Thankyou for using reason!!!
Here in Portugal I wish there were more people like you.
Jeffree
@Soupy. I agree. Anyone who uses “disgusting old queen” clearly has some issues.
If Seabra were truly not gay, or at least bi, no amount of moolah would allow him a relationship with an openly gay man. Plenty of women would of been available for him to spo.nge off.
Sorry Spinny, but we can’t “convert” anyone. Seabra was there with Castro of his own free will & had the option to leave at anytime. There’s no moral defense for his actions.
jack
Please let justice be swift and proper, for the sake of the family left behind in grief. Peace.
caseywest7NYC
This young man was an invited guest for New Year’s Eve in New York. He was wined and dined, saw Broadway shows (Spiderman) and taken on shopping trips. When he was confronted for stealing 1000.00 dollars, he lost it, brutally killed his benefactor, took a shower, put on a suit and tie and went down to the hotel bar to meet girls. When he noticed he was still bleeding, he went out to take a cab to Roosevelt Hospital. The driver noticed him from the cabs tv on the news and called the cops. They found him still in the waiting room. He will never see Portugal again. He will always remain a guest of the State of New York, far from the luxuries of the Intercontinental Hotel, forever. Signed, sealed and delivered. Evil is as evil does. The world is better off without you, Renato Seabra!!!
Soupy
Well, there will be small perks for him. Spinny will send him love letters and marriage proposals in jail.
Spinny64
@Jeffree:
Dude, no one is out to convert anyone. As far as describing Castro as a disgusting old queen, what the hell was he if he wasn’t that? How would YOU describe him? A spade is a spade is a spade and guess what, sometimes you just have to call them as they are. No issues here, just calling them as they are. I’d say the same if it were a 65 year old straight guy out to corrupt a young 20 year old girl.
Renato is by no means a completely innocent party in this tragic event. He played with fire and got burned, big time! But in this case he was clearly the more inexperienced, and to some extent, naive party, who thought he could advance his career ambitions by latching on to someone like Castro. Something which he probably would not have done had Castro not made the initial contact by texting him via Facebook. I’ve seen those Facebook texts in a couple of portuguese language articles I’ve read and it’s obvious Renato, wrongfully, was playing Castro. Bad choice on Renato’s part, BIG TIME!! To these speculations that they were a “couple” and/or “lovers”, no way! Castro first contacted Renato in early October and after a series of exchanges over the course of only SEVEN days you see the exchanges including such phrases as “I think about you all the time” and “sending you kisses.” All started by Castro and Renato was only reciprocating because most likely he saw an opening for furthering his career. Let me say it again, BIG MISTAKE and a very wrong choice on Renato’s part to go down this road. But how in the hell can anyone claim they were a “couple” and “in love” based solely on a few Facebook text messages over the course of one week, at most? Let’s get real here folks.
As the older, more experienced party, Castro is certainly the more responsible party here for taking advantage of a young, inexperienced young man’s aspirations and seeking to manipulate him and his career desires for his own selfish interests. So as bad as what Renato allegedly did is, Castro is still by far more guilty for contributing to this very tragic chain of events that culminated in his death and in the process ruining the future of a very promising, by all accounts decent young man like Renato Seabra. For this I say again, God bless Renato, his friends, and his family and may his life be restored as well, and as quickly, as possible. Coragem Renato! Forca Renato!
Spinny64
@Soupy:
Nor wothy of a response, dude. You’re sad.
caseywest7NYC
Dear twisted Spinny, decent young men do not throw your head into a television, strangle you, stomp on your head so hard that you leave shoe imprints, stab you with repeatedly with a cork screw and then cut off your balls with it and leave you to die while you go out on the town with his money. He will rot in the tombs of New York forever!
Spinny64
@caseywest7NYC:
Dude, sounds like you saw the whole thing. Will you be a witness in the trial?
Soupy
Odd ironic, considering you did respond, Spinny. Every time you hold the victim of a murder more responsible than the murderer, you reveal yourself to be more than sad. Amoral, vicious, possibly sociopathic. Please don’t tell yourself that you are on the side of the angels. It’s a delusion.
Spinny64
@Spinny64:
Casey, please allow me to say it directly to you: what happened to Castro is a tragedy! But you cannot ignore and/or completely discount the series of events that led to and culminated in this tragic event. Think about this for a while and surely you can comprehend that Castro is by far the guiltier party in contributing to this very tragic chain of events. With age, supposedly, comes better judgment and wisdom. Castro was 65. What the hell was he doing going after and enticing a 20 year old? And also, once again, Renato is by no means completely innocent. I get that. But Castro deserves by far most of the blame for what ended up happening.
As for referring to Renato as a decent young man, again I’m going by the portuguese language articles I read where they interviewed his friends, family, professors at Coimbra University, girlfriends, childhood teachers and so forth who are in a position to know him best. To a person, each of them speak of his decency, his calmness, his good nature. In short, as one of his teachers described him: “uma joia de rapaz”, or, a jewel of a young man. How could Renato have fooled all these people all of his life?
Soupy
Psychopaths have a good record of “fooling” a lot of people. He’s fooled you, hasn’t he?
Spinny64
@Soupy:
Trying to reason with you is such a waste of time.
Soupy
I’m wouldn’t even attempt to reason with such a twisted and delusional soul such as yourself. Big fans of psychotic murderers are not ideal subjects for reason.
caseywest7NYC
Thank God, spineless wishy-washy people like you will not be on Renato’s jury! No! He will answer to true New Yorkers, who know true EVIL when they see it, for his blatant hour long brutality. He will never see Portugal again.
Spinny64
It’s like spitting against the wind… trying to have civilized discourse with a gay Democrats.
caseywest7NYC
Spinny, you have no power here, be gone! before someone drops a house on you too!
Spinny64
@caseywest7NYC:
That’s mighty open minded and tolerant of you.
Soupy
How did “democrats” enter this discourse? Another conclusion that you have leapt to? Republicans are traditionally more “law and order” folks who would propose the death penalty for Renato. Deluded and confused.
Spinny64
@Soupy:
The death penalty surely applies for a PREMEDITATED murder. Again, consideation has to be given to ALL events that led to this tragic event, including the apparently willful lack of judgment by a supposedly more mature individual such as Castro. A stunning lack of judgment, and apparent succumbing to his own selfish desires to entice an, up until the events in New York on January 7, innocent young man.
Soupy
You certainly sound like you are laying the groundwork for his defense. It’s common for defense attorneys to use a strategy of attacking and maligning the real victim as you choose to do. Of course, every accused has the right to the most rigorous defense. I’m sure that the end run will be an insanity defense, but that hasn’t been popular with juries since Hinckley. I think that the willful lack of judgement on the part of a unsrupulous young hustler will hold more weight.
Jeffree
@Soupy: well said throughout. With all the murders in the world, Spinny is obssessed with this one. Hmmmm. Wonder why. Perhaps the term “disgusting old queen” feels too close to home. Defending a murderous hustler seems a waste of time.
I look forward to reading more of your posts — on another thread! :- }
Spinny64
@Soupy:
I am not a defense attorney. Would never want to be a lawyer anyway! So, rest assured, I am not laying the groundwork for Renato’s defense. As I believe I said in a previous response to you, this story really resonated with me because of my own kids and also particularly because of one of my nephews who is the same age as Renato and whose monther, my sister-in-law, is from Portugal. To see a young, promising life irretrievably damaged is a beyond tragic. Especially one like Renato’s, who up until this sad chain of events, truly was, by all acounts from those who knew him best, a fine, decent young man who had a promising future. Way too sad! Especially sad because he sold his soul for the pursuit fame and money, compromised himself, and got involved with likes of people like Carlos Castro, an individual whose only interest was to fulfill his own sick, selfish desires.
Soupy
Thank you. There is always interesting psychology going on when a person sympathizes more with the murderer than the victim.
justiceontherocks
@Spinny64: New York has no death penalty. The law was declared unconstitutional in 2004 and we’ve had better things to do since then. The kid is not going to fry.
If the case ever gets that far, and no sane defense lawyer would allow that, the NYC jury will think he took the money and didn’t want to live up to his part of the deal. They will for sure not believe he is an “innocent young man” nor should they.
Soupy
Well spinny, your obsession with characterizing and maligning the victim really does speak volumes. You see no tragedy in a man being brutally mutilated and murdered. Making assumptions, as you do, I would guess that you are uncomfortable with and ashamed of your own sexual impulses and therefore, irrationally sympathize more with the murderer.
caseywest7NYC
Mr. Seabra is far from an “innocent decent young man”. There is no defense for someone who brutalizes and torturizes another human being for over an hour while in a foreign country, especially as their guest. His only saving grace is that New York does not currently have the death penalty. Mr. Seabra, the “innocent decent young man” can only now look forward to a life of continuous confinement and whatever hell the New York prison system can dream up for him. His life, as he knew it, is over.So long Renato, we’re all better off now that you are done.
Spinny64
@Soupy:
Dude, I have REPEATEDLY stated that what happened to Castro is a tragedy. Insofar as making assumptions, you’re the one that’s all over the place making them.
Jeffree
@Spinny64: Since you’re so concerned about your nephew who is close in age to Seabra, perhaps you should spend your time making sure that young men and women of that generation aren’t killing themselves or others due to fears of homosexuality and bisexualty.
That would help you take your mind off that beautiful Portuguese murderer.
Soupy
Really? So your repeated labelling of Castro as “disgusting old queen” is a fact? I think there is more evidence that Renato is a “psychotic murderer”. If you weigh those two descriptions, which one is a worse human being?
Spinny64
@Soupy:
As I’ve asked you before: how would YOU describe Carlos Castro?
Soupy
I would describe him as the victim of a horrific murder. That’s all that I could prove without gross conjecture like you choose to indulge in. I’ve answered you before, but you seem too busy canonizing an “innocent” young man.
Spinny64
@Soupy:
I’m not “canonizing” anyone, including Renato Seabra. When I’ve referred to him as an innocent young man, I’ve always prefaced it with “up until the tragic event that occured in NYC on January 7” or something similar to it. With regards to that tragic event, Renato’s innocence or guilt is up to the justice system. And if in any way I’ve implied otherwise, I’m only referring to what those who knew him best describe him as prior to his coming to NYC with Castro. By the way, in all this going back and forth, did you notice that in the police reports since that tragic event, they all mention that Castro was found nude? Given Renato’s reaction, I sincerely doubt Renato welcomed Castro’s advances, nor that Renato helped Castro disrobe as part of an “amorous” exchange. Castro was probably expecting “payback”, demanded it, and Renato snapped at the thought of having to aquiesce to Castro’s demands. No wonder the kid lost it!!
Ken S
@Spinny64: Renato isn’t the helpless ‘co-victim’ of a “tragedy” of circumstances outside his control, because Castro’s murder was no such “tragedy”– it was a *crime.* That makes Renato a *murderer* and a criminal.
As for his friends and family back home swearing up and down what a decent, upstanding jewel he was, yeah, because they couldn’t *possibly* be biased. They couldn’t possibly be a bunch of homophobes only capable– as you seem to be– of seeing an older gay man as some predatory seducer.
Here’s an alternative theory: Carlos started flirting with Renato like plenty of lonely older guys do online every day, because like pretty much everyone else alive they’ve been conditioned to equate youth with beauty. So Renato, being a gold-digging self-advancing opportunist, reciprocated. Maybe he *was* 100% straight and it was totally insincere (in which case he’s also a damned liar), or maybe he was just another twink from a homophobic background who’d only step far enough out of the closet to snatch up the next gift from his sugar-daddy.
Either way, he pimped himself for as much as he could get. With no gun to his head. With every option to walk away at the first bit of discomfort or disgust. He *chose* freely to override whatever reservations he might have had about going around with an older man in exchange for treasure and exposure. And then one night he *chose* to murder the man he was whoring himself out to. Brutally and not even quickly.
Renato might be pretty to look at, but he chose every step of his path and it’s led him exactly where he deserves to be: a murderous, pretty whore in jail, likely surrounded by hardened (hah) criminals who probably won’t be offering him money or clothes for his ass. The best deal I’d expect he can get is “take it in the mouth or we bash out your shiny, perfect teeth.” Couldn’t happen to a more deserving murderous whore.
As for his defenders, they come off as either deluded, biased homophobes and sycophants. And the ageist gay ones couldn’t be scraped off the bottom of their collective barrel with a jackhammer. Let them waste their money on postage to mail love letters to their jailed murdering whore crush– fuck ’em all.
Spinny64
@Ken S:
Whoa! Just a tad bit angry. I agree that Renato compromised himself and by doing so, started on the road to perdition. Once again proving that nothing in this world, certainly not all the fame and money, is worth compromising yourself. Renato has come to find himself in an extremely difficult situation all because he chose to compromise himself and seek the company, for whatever reasons, with the likes of people like Carlos Castro.
justiceontherocks
@Spinny64: Let’s see, the old gay guy who took the boy toy to NYC asked him to do the nasty and he didn’t want to so he did the only logical thing – he bashed his head in, slit his throat and castrated him with a corkscrew. Then he took a shower, swiped the old guy’s wallet and hopped a cab to get a boo-boo on his hand taken care of.
Are you nuts? Seriously, are you well???
Spinny64
@justiceontherocks:
Never said, or implied, that Renato’s reaction was “the only logical thing” he could have done. Renato should have run like hell away from the situation. Coincidentally, he had tried, on an earlier occasion, to get out of it. Earlier he had borrowed a phone from someone on the street which he used to call his Mom and asked for the means to return to Portugal so he wouldn’t have to go back to the hotel room. It’s a shame he didn’t go straight to the airport and hopped on the first flight back, instead of going back to the hotel. But here’s a 20 year old, inexperienced, probaly naive kid from the Portuguese countryside, first time in the US. My guess is he didn’t speak English, or at least well enough. (Don’t know this for a fact, just guessing.) He was very dependent on Castro while in NYC– tough situation to be in.
justiceontherocks
@Spinny64: You said “no wonder the kid lost it.” What did the kid think he was there for, a church social? There is zero excuse for what he did, and zero excuse for calling him a victim.
ewe
I bet you he was on speed.
ewe
@Spinny64: From what I understand Renato is a shy, calm, religious young man
Read more: http://www.queerty.com/renato-seabras-brutal-slaying-of-carlos-castro-was-even-more-violent-than-you-thought-20110114/#ixzz1Biu8BHfc
Not a great advertisement for being shy, calm or religious i would say. And one more thing you kook, I was very far away and alone from my family and anyone i knew when i was 18. I never once thought of killing somone and i met some trolls who just wanted sex with me too. You are a nut.
ewe
@Spinny64: Renato has come to find himself in an extremely difficult situation all because he chose to compromise himself and seek the company, for whatever reasons, with the likes of people like Carlos Castro.
Read more: http://www.queerty.com/renato-seabras-brutal-slaying-of-carlos-castro-was-even-more-violent-than-you-thought-20110114/#ixzz1BivBslP5
Don’t you fucken blame the victim you asshole.
Spinny64
@justiceontherocks:
Are you saying the disgusting old queen had a right to expect to be “serviced”? Never referred to Renato as a victim. Just a young man who made a horrible choice, that is to compromise himself, that lead to a chain of tragic events culminating in the events of January 7.
ewe
@Spinny64: Yeah bitch, that’s what i am sayin. If you agree to take trips and gifts then you better give some up. That’s the arrangement made by these two consenting adults perhaps. So now you want to change the terms. You don’t fucking kill someone over your closeted emotions asswipe.
ewe
@Spinny64: You don’t have a problem with women who do the same with men do you? No baby, that’s called heterosexual marriage and you’re completely ok with straight old trolls going after young girls right. They don’t get your permission to murder as well do they Twister?
justiceontherocks
@Spinny64: I don’t know that he was a “disgusting old queen” and neither do you. The derogatory term is pretty inappropriate. I have no idea what Carlos Castro had a right to expect, but I know what he had a right not to expect: to be slaughtered in a hotel room.
You wrote that “Castro is by far the guiltier party in contributing to this very tragic chain of events.” That is a bunch of hooey. Castro didn’t slit anyone’s throat. There is NO excuse for what the young man confessed to doing. None. This homicide did not happen because of anything Castro did. To suggest otherwise is pure nonsense.
Spinny64
@ewe:
Are you gay or something? Didn’t know gays could be so ferocious. (May the Pentagon should let gays in the military and unleash their wrath on Al-Qaeda.) The disgusting old queen should have stuck to his own kind, not gone after a naive, inexperienced straight kid from the countryside. How do you know what the arrangement was between Renato and Castro?
ewe
@Spinny64: I am reflecting about some previous “horrible choices” i made in my life. Using your logic, I guess i can go kill someone i blame.
ewe
@Spinny64: Yeah i am ferocious. Now you fucking know. Keep it movin you stretched out hole. You have no idea if that murdered victim was disgusting but you certainly fucking are asshole. I never said i knew their arrangement you judgemental bitch but you seem to think you fucking know. Go bury your head in your stinking bible. The only good thing is that your scathing bullshit attacking the victim is not ever going to be permitted in court.
Spinny64
@ewe:
Dude, you are so completely not getting it when I say Renato made a horrible choice. How can anyone dispute the fact that Renato indeed made a horrible choice when he chose to compromise himself? That’s what I’m referring to. It is NEVER a wise choice to compromise yourself, your beliefs, and who you really are. It is not worth all the fame and money in the world Renato may have thought he was on the road to achieving by hanging around people like Castro. Renato is a straight kid who is now paying one hell of a price for playing with the destructive fire of the gay world.
ewe
@Spinny64: “Dude” i am gay and this a gay blog dude. You seem to think that everyone agrees with you that two men in a consensual sexual relationship is a “horrible choice. I don’t think that way at all. Come out of your little pea brain and read the comments of gay people who fucking like themselves despite your idiocy. The murderer is compromising himself NOW. He is gay and denying it. He is one twisted gay person that gets no fucking sympathy from me. He was on fucken Tina if you ask me. No pity baby. No pity at all. Vile hatred without excuse or reason except your stupid fucken crap falling out your mouth. Whateva!!! Who cares about your rationale. None of it defends his actions. None of it including your christian ugly hate speech laced and disguised as concern. You are as in denial as anyone in a closet. Renato is not straight. I can see that in the photo and i don’t even fucking know him. He isn’t all that good lookin either. But he is a fucking adult. So shut it closed.
justiceontherocks
@Spinny64: “The destructive fire of the gay world.” Who the hell are you, Pat Robertson? Tony Perkins? No wonder you wrote like a bigot. You are.
Pretty typical of the homophobes: the queer deserved it. get losy dirt bag.
ewe
@justiceontherocks: CAWFEE TALK. LMAO.
justiceontherocks
@ewe: Spinny hasn’t replied. He had to slip out to the truck stop to man the glory hole. POS.
ewe
@justiceontherocks: Dude, dudester, doodledoo, Humpy dumpty. lol
ewe
@justiceontherocks: Our “gay fire” put her out of her misery.
Kev C
@justiceontherocks: I don’t think Spinny is a homophobe. It sounds to me like he’s crazy in love with crazy Renato. But is Spinny 64?
Soupy
Spinny, as long as you keep referring to a Castro as “people like him” and your other colourful descriptions and your defense and excuses for Renato, you are revealing a level of ignorance, bigotry, and hatred that is…really disturbing. I do hope it is because of your own gay shame, because if it isn’t, you are a homophobe and you have a very twisted sense of morality. The “mistake” Renato made was brutally torturing and murdering another human being. And any fairy tale that you presume to make up about the events leading up to it are of your own conjecture and imagination. And it’s sick. Get some help.
justiceontherocks
@Kev C: You’ll have to ask the guys he’s servicing at the truck stop right now. I think I will make an xtranormal video about a conversation between Spinny and Renato.
Jeffree
No wonder Spinny didn’t like my idea for his volunteer work (#91). I hate to think what would happen if any one of his preci.ous neices or nephews came out as LGBT….. He does need to get some help!
Spinny64
@ewe:
Man the hate speech on this site! Isn’t it something how those who actually engage in hate speech acuse everybody else of it?
I had lost interest in this enlightened exchange and had a great weekend with my wife and kids… in spite of what some of you wrote here. YOU guys (gals?) need to get help, seriously. At no time have I sunk down to the pits and made accusations against you personally, something with which you all seem to have no problem doing. That Castro did not deserve the fate that befell him, I agree. It is still logical to take into consideration the events that led up to what happened in NYC on Jan 7. I spoke on the phone over the week-end with my brother and his wife who are back in Portugal, her country of origin. They are the parents to my nephew whom I’ve mentioned that has a similar background to Renato’s. Needless to say, this story has been a big deal in Portugal. To a person everyone agrees that what happened to Castro was tragic and should not have happened. But it is also undeniable that Castro contributed by far the most to the chain of events that led to what ended up happening. To start off, what is a 65 year old queen doing initiating contact with a 20 year old straight kid from rural Portugal who was probably not the most sophisticated person nor aware of the ways of the world, particularly the world of the likes of Carlos Castro. Castro no doubt was always around the “arts and croissant” crowd. A crowd that appears to live in a world where all is fair, so long as their selfish desires are satisfied. All can be sacrificed at this altar. Which helps explain why he had no compunction about going after someone like Renato, a decent young man whom Castro ended up corrupting. For example, it was reported by Castro’s friends, not Renato’s since he didn’t have any in NYC when he first arrived, that what no doubt contributed to the explosive situation was what they termed “jealousy.” Castro was upset that Renato was flirting with young women. What the hell did the old queen expect? Here’s a young, handsome kid, straight by all accounts— it’s inevitable he’s going to get the ladies’ attention. What delusional world was Castro in thinking that this wasn’t going to happen? It appears Castro thought he “owned” Renato since they were traveling on his dime and got upset that he wasn’t getting Renato’s complete and full attention. Fast forward to when no doubt Castro was expecting Renato to engage in the revolting behavior he was expecting, and guess what? Things blew up. They shouldn’t have. Castro did not deserve to get killed, but hey, dude, Castro sure as hell made his own bed and now look where it got him. And a bigger shame is that a young, promising, young man lost it and appears to have committed a horrible act for which he will have to pay a dear price. Tragic. CORAGEM RENATO! TEM UN MAR DE GENTE QUE TE APOIA! God bless you Renato and may your life be restored as well and as soon as possible.
Jeffree
@Spinny64: I think your obsession with a beautiful young man from Portugal has got to be settiing up red flags for your “wife and kids”. They’re probably starting to worry about you. And how much time and attention is going to a LGB website.
Spinny64
@Jeffree: I rest my case about the innuendo and accusations… Is it really that difficult for you to leave personal attacks out of your response? If I respond, it’s an “obsession”. I suppose if you do, then you’re only stating your opinion and/or providing information?
scott ny'er
@Spinny64: Wow. Renato is like a saint to you. Young, decent, promising man? Where do you get this? Did you grow up with him? Are you his family?
Using your unproven scenario:
Maybe Renato shouldn’t be taking other people’s money and learn to pay his own way. And maybe that creepy, young, dirtbag, should not be a gold-digger. And maybe, he should hang with people his own age. What did this dirtbag expect would happen if he hangs out with an old gay man who gives him money. Is he brain-dead? He should be putting out. It’s a given. Prove he’s an a-class dirtbag, he murders someone.
See how easy that was. One can write a story just like you did.
Until full details of the case come out both sides are using conjecture. What is interesting is how one paints the picture. You’re painting is tainted and bias. By your usage of words: revolting, queen, old.
Spinny64
@scott ny’er:
Scott,
No, Renato is not a saint. To me or anyone else. Nobody, including myself, is a saint. Still, take a step back and look at the overall big picture:
What would this good looking kid want from this old queen? Are you kidding me? If all he was after was a free-ride or a hand-up, I’m sure he would have sought out (which would have been easy with his looks) someone way better looking and at least 40 years younger. It is creepy to think of this old guy even touching this kid, he should have been the more mature one and declined any approaches or offers from this kid. No matter what sexual orientation either is/was, the old guy is nothing less than “a dirty old man” and a disgusting, filthy queen. If this were a situation of an elderly heterosexual male and a 22 yr old female, the same would apply. The public would be like, “he got what he deserved, should have known better….dirty old man…”
Jeffree
@scott ny’er: Clearly Spinny is infatuated with the handsome young Portuguese man, which makes him feel like an “old” “revolting” “queen”.
I hope Mrs Spinny doesn’t blame herself for her husband’s crush on a dude.
Fabulastic
@Spinny64: I am Portuguese and queer. Living in Portugal and having to deal with it.
This case has sparkled a lot of homophobia and inane arguments – like the ones you have presented here.
There are a lot’s of cases of old men with much younger partners. Sixty something Pinto da Costa, president of the very popular Porto soccer team is dating a twenty-something «fashion model» girl from rural Portugal. No one here sees a problem with that.
All the fuzz is because – using your words – Castro was an «old queen».
So, please stop flooding us with your preposterous opinions. This is a comments area, not a chat room; and we all got your point already.
Soupy
Spinny, could you get your wife to post her opinion on this thread?
Spinny64
@Jeffree: Is it even remotely possible for you to respond without resorting to innuendo and accusations? Usually the last resort of those who can’t forge a reasonable opinion and/or argument…
Spinny64
@Fabulastic: Onde na Portugal mora Voce?
Soupy
Spinny, you must be a hypocrite. You’ve spun so much innuendo and accusations about a man that you don’t know (Castro). Do you think that makes for a reasonable argument?
justiceontherocks
Ho boy. Spinny is back. Wonder if he had a good weekend at the glory hole.
Spinny64
@Soupy: I’m not spinning any innuendo (ie, indirect accusations) about Castro. I’m flat out saying it: the filthy old queen should have kept to his own and not gone after an unsophisticated, country kid from rural Portugal, who by all accounts was straight. That deserves condemnation– condemnation for corrupting the life of a promising young man.
Spinny64
Facts are stubborn things. And it is a fact that it was Castro who first sought out Renato and went after him via Facebook, thus setting into motion this whole series of sad events. Yes, Renato should not have let his career aspirations push him to compromise himself. But the filthy old queen should have acted his age and been more mature about the situation. For starters, Castro should have stuck to his own kind– not go after young kids like Renato. You don’t find this at all disgusting? How would you like it if some dirty old queen went after one of your sons?
Soupy
By all accounts he was straight? By your account, you are too. So why do you spend so much of your energy on a gay blog? Did you “accidently” find this site? Does your wife know?
What I find disgusting is that a psychotic hustler would torture and murder another human being.
You keep mentioning your beautiful nephew in Portugal. Why are you worried about him in relation to this case? Does he demonstrate any symptoms of psychosis? Is he planning on a career in prostitution? That would be worrisome.
Spinny64
@Soupy: Why is it so difficult to keep personal invective out of this? Let’s focus like a laser and stick to the story and its protagonists. That is fair game. Anything else just demonstrates an individual’s inability to forge a reasonable argument or point of view.
Soupy
I don’t see any personal invective. Unless you consider being gay an insult. You keep “focusing like a laser” on the tragedy that has befallen an “innocent” young man while condemning and heaping calumny on Castro. The fact that you call him a “filthy old queen” with no knowledge of him as a person is an example of bigotry. And you can’t seem to understand that anyone who sympathizes more with a psychotic murderer than his victim is untenable to so many people.
justiceontherocks
@Spinny64: Your “argument” is that (1) Renato was a fine young man (you have no way to know whether that is true) who was (2) corrupted by a venal old man (which you also don’t know) and that (3) Castro is more responsible for Renato’s rage than Renato himself. The first two “facts” are just your opinion for which you have very little basis and the third is a completely illogical conclusion.
Equally illogical is that you harp on all this on a gay message board on which you are persuading NO ONE.
So it’s back in the closet for you.
Soupy
Try this. If Castro had murdered Renato and cut off his cock with a corkscrew, would you be saying “What a tragedy for this esteemed journalist. That filthy hustler had it coming.”? So age is your only factor in this.
tallest
all this conjecture is silly no one knows anything beyond Renato viciously murdered Castro. That’s what we know. everything else is bullshit assumptions. We don’t know they didn’t love each other. We don’t know Renato was whoring himself or that Castro was soliciting sexual acts from him. It’s probable that the latter case is true. In which case they both acted irresponsible. But Castro’s death is definitely not his fault.
Spinny64
@Soupy: The only reason age is a factor here is because with age is supposed to come wisdom and maturity. Neither of which Castro demonstrated.
Soupy
Spinny, there is one question that you must answer. If it is acceptable for you to judge and attack the character of a crime victim that you don’t know, why isn’t it acceptable for us to judge and attack you based on the evidence of what you write? Can you please explain that?
Ken S
@Spinny64: Bull-fucking-shit. How vigourously do you object to older *straight* men getting together with attractive younger women? You carry on as though every ‘summer/winter’ pairing is some scandal where the elder partner must be condemned for not exercising their ‘mature wisdom’ and squashing any desire for someone young and attractive. Youth, which- welcome to planet Earth- is upstaged only by breathing as a socially permitted, hegemonically normalized, culturally reinforced desirable quality. If everyone and their goddamned dog isn’t meant to be salivating at hot nekkid young people (barring pedophelia) then how do you explain 99.9% of modern advertising and entertainment? Enlighten us by pointing to something- anything- in the mass consciousness of civilization that doesn’t advance the notion that we’re all meant to covet youth, desire youth, be attracted to youth. If Castro *was* a horny old dog, then he master’s name was Pavlov and his chasing of younger tail was a textbook product of conditioning by pretty much the whole of modern society.
No, this isn’t an *age* issue. This isn’t disgust and horror that someone Castro’s age pursued someone Renato’s age- otherwise you’d be shrilling for Hugh Hefner’s balls on a corkscrew, and the treatment of “cougars” today to resemble the treatment of “witches” a couple hundred years ago. This is a homophobia issue. Because Castro was an older *man* and Renato was a younger *man* this is the classic “gays are lecherous perverts who recruit/seduce/indoctrinate/corrupt young people” panic. But I’d lay money on it that even if Castro had been a successful urbane fag Renato’s own age, your tune wouldn’t change (except maybe for dropping the “old” your beloved epithet of “disgusting old queen”). I’d bet that you see any same-sex coupling as a “compromising,” shameful, disgusting thing. I bet your terror isn’t specifically of your darling nephew ending up (willingly in love- which you’d no doubt discount as impossible- or ‘taken in’) with an *old* man so much as him ending up with *another* man.
Now for a little ‘personal invective:’ here’s hoping *your* balls end up in some twink psychopath’s martini glass, ditzy bigot.
scott ny'er
@Spinny64: Sadly, you can’t see any logic.
That usually means you’re very religious, or a homophobe, or in the closest and self-hating, or just not smart, or any combination thereof. I stumbled up on the debate and can see by reading several posts you cannot see how what a bigot you are and how that colors your logic. There is no sense in trying to persuade you or discuss this situation. It is a waste of time.
good luck to the other posters here, jeffree, soupy, etc… in discussing this matter with Spinny.. But it’s a lost cause. IMHO.
Spinny64
@Ken S: Just so you know, Hugh Hefner’s going after young ladies who could easily be his GREAT-GRANDDAUGHTERS is pretty detastable too. I’m with you on that. Same as George Soros (what is he 80 or something?) going after a 26 year old young lady, I believe. Time marches on for all of us and we all need to accept it. Now, this doesn’t rule out *true* love between two individuals who have a significant age difference. It’s very possible. But to focus it back on the story at hand (Carlos Castro and Renato Seabra), this was in no way, shape, or form an issue of love. On the one hand you have an older self-centered individual whose only interests were satisfying his selfish desires, Castro, and on the other, a young man who succumbed to his career and personal ambitions and in the process sold his soul and thoroughly compromised himself. Is anyone truly surprised that this situation ended up disastrously?
Spinny64
@Soupy: You can attack me all you want. Makes no difference to me. I am only appealing to you in the spirit of civilized discourse to keep personal attacks out of it. This serves no purpose and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Soupy
Spinny, can you please answer the question that I posed in post #143. If you can’t, please just say so.
Soupy
How is calling Castro a “filthy old queen” not a personal attack? I am only appealing to you to leave that out of your discourse, as it is a bankrupt rhetorical device and distinctly uncivilized. How can you not see the hypocrisy of your words?
Spinny64
@Soupy: My references to Castro are based on the fact that he was a 65 year old individual who, in theory, was mature and could exercise proper judgment. Intiating contact via Facebook with a young, unsophisticated, rural individual like Renato with preconceived expectations showed a demonstrable lack of judgment. And, quite frankly, it makes Castro appear to be a predator. In some of the portuguese language articles I read they state he would go around his circles, the “arts and croissant” crowd, and rave about how he was passionately in love with his new “beau” when in fact he hadn’t even met Renato in person yet! If that isn’t somewhat deranged, then what is? It was clear what his intentions were. He went so far as to confide in some of his friends that one of the primary purposes, if not the main one, for his bringing Renato to NYC was to bed him. Meanwhile Renato, being young and foolish by compromising his soul and true nature, thought he was furthering his career ambitions by playing along. So things blew up when the irreconcilable expectations came head to head on January 7 at the Intercontinental Hotel in NYC. Throughout all this, it was clearly far more incumbent upon Castro to pull back and exercise wisdom and better judgment and not lead this impressionalbe, unsophisticated youth down a road that ended up disastrously for both of them. If there is guilt to be assigned for what contributed TO ARRIVING at the disastrous events of January, and there is, it is clearly Castro who was far more at fault. You have to call a spade a spade. And a spade is a spade is a spade no matter how much of a blind eye you want to turn.
Soupy
You have to call a spade a spade. And a spade is a spade is a spade no matter how much of a blind eye you want to turn.
That still doesn’t explain why you feel that calling someone a “filthy old queen” is not a personal attack.
If you want to call a spade a spade, why don’t you call Renato a predatory, psychotic hustler? Where is your blind eye turning? It seems to be as “accurate” assessment as yours.
Your “assessment” of blame is invalid, illogical, and morally reprehensible. But clearly, you will never see that. Keep turning your blind eye.
Spinny64
@Soupy: Dude, look at Castro’s behavior. Castro contacted Renato, unsolicited, via Facebook with the intent of ultimately bedding him. Something he confided to his friends. Seems, no, it IS predatory. That, if nothing else, makes him a filthy old queen.
Soupy
Don’t call me dude. It makes you sound like teenager. Using your logic, a young man who responds to a facebook invitation, who you “claim is not gay, purely for financial gain, and then tortures and murders his “benefactor” is conniving, psychotic hustler and murderer. Can you not acknowledge that? Really, weigh your options here, a older man who expresses interest in a younger man and a young man who wants money and then murders and maims. Which is worse? Or more to blame? If you think it’s Castro, you are truly disturbed.
Spinny64
@Soupy: What Renato is accused of having done to Castro at the Intercontinental is clearly reprehensible. But please look back at #150 where I am clearly referring to the whole sordid chain of events that LED TO the tragic ending in NYC on January 7.
Kev C
Renato Seabra is a shallow, selfish narcisist. Pathological narcisism (NPD) is one step away from sociopath. Renato felt that he deserved the attention, the fame, glamour and money. And he was insanely jealous of Carlos. A older man who had fame and money. Renato felt he deserved better than an old man with a wrinkled old penis. And so he killed Carlos, with a special hatred for his old penis. Because Renato is a sociopath, a narcisistic shithead. End of story.
Soupy
Your sordid chain of events is all conjecture. And even if it were factual, Renato is equally responsible, until you get to murder and mutilation.
Let’s see. If Hugh Hefner’s 24 year old bride decides on her honeymoon to viciously murder and mutilate Hugh, would you be holding Hefner more responsible? Or is it just pretty young male psychotic hustlers that you feel so compelled to sympathize with? And how is it not predatory to pursue a relationship with an older man for money and ambition? Neither you, nor I know whether there was love between them. But you keep making assumptions to back up your perverse opinion of murderers.
Soupy
Spinny, I would like you to go to a thread on here regarding a an out gay Boston councillor. By your assumptions, you would consider him a filthy old queen. The actual person it concerns is in the thread. Will you have the courage to call him that in person?
Spinny64
@Soupy: If your Boston friend is anything remotely like Carlos Castro, then yeah, he too is a filthy old queen. I strongly encourage you to read the exchange of messages between Castro and Renato on Facebook. It is blatantly obvious that Castro was in essence virtually seducing Renato by making him promises of opening doors for him to the fashion world. I still do not, in any way, absolve Renato of his responsibility for going down the road he chose. Renato should NEVER have let his career ambitions blind him to the fact that he was making a horrible and tragic choice by choosing to compromise himself the way he did. In the Facebook messages, within a span of only a few days, not more than a week, and without even having met Renato in person, Castro is proclaiming his love for him and making statements to the effect that he’s thinking about Renato all the time. In one instance he mentions to Renato that he is in his hotel room in the city of Porto looking at the sun and that the sun was Renato. Really guy, Castro was deranged! In what universe is this indicative of someone with a healthy mind and healthy benavior? I don’t know what your friend from Boston is like, but if in any way he is similar to Carlos Castro and/or engages in behavior like Castro’s, no thanks. I don’t want any contact with people like that. Would you? You accuse me of being an apologist for Renato. Yes, I don sympathize a lot with Renato. I do so because his life as been irretrievable changed for the worse, all because he chose to go down a road he should not have chosen to go down. And the individual responsible for getting him started down that road was Carlos Castro, whose only interest were clearly to satisfy his own selfish desires. I must state again, this in NO WAY absolves Renato of his responsibility for his actions. It’s just an absolute shame that a young man’s life has been drastically changed for the worse because of some predatory queen. CORAGEM RENATO!
Soupy
Following your example, and making a judgement on someone I don’t know, you must be a repressed and self loathing homosexual, tortured by the betrayal of your family, with a perverse predilection for pretty, young psychotic hustlers. Clearly you are uncomfortable with your desires, so you are writing about it.
It’s fun to conjecture!
Jeffree
@Spinny64: Your poor wife must be lonely since you spend your free time obsessing over a beautiful 20-something Portuguese male model/murderer. Perhaps you can correspond with him while he’s in prison to express your admiration for his killing a “filthy disgusting old queen,” to use your words.
My deepest sympathies go out to your family.
Ken S
@Jeffree: That’s becoming a cliched refrain. Personally, I think his wife could have exercised better judgment if she didn’t want to end up in such a tragic situation. But since she didn’t, she got what was coming to her. She deserves him.
See what I did there?? 😀
Jeffree
@Ken S: Clever! I like how you think.
It’s amazing to me that so many “str8” homophobes are so obsessed with gay sex. Think Spinny, Pete LaBarbera, Maggie Srivistav-Gallagher, the Phelps clan, and most of the reparative ther.apy people.
caseywest7NYC
spinny 64, this “fine, young, shy and religous rural man” as you say, has bludgeoned, strangled, stomped, killed and castrated (with a corkscrew) a very talented writer and then this “fine young man” gouged out his eye with a corkscrew while shouting, “I’m not gay anymore”. He will never see Portugal again, he will never get his life back, as you put it. He will rot forever in a New York Prison. End of discussions.
Spinny64
The personal invective you all engage in and the conclusions you make are nothing short of amazing! Mighty open minded and tolerant of you all. My compliments!
justiceontherocks
@Spinny64: If anyone else responds to this delusional ass clown married pervert who jerks off thinking about a 21 year old male homicidal maniac I will hunt you down, cut out your intestines and skip rope with them.
Spinny64
@justiceontherocks: Very nice! Speaks volumes about you and your kind.
Spinny64
Really, all open minded individuals should read the Facebook text messages exchanged between Castro and Renato. All initiated by Castro. If you don’t read portuguese, I’m sure they’re out there in English somewhere. Then, be objective about the situation. Any rational human being can see what Castro’s intentions were and how he was using his position as a member of the “arts and croissant” crowd to win over and influence Renato by promising him, literally, the world. If that isn’t manipulative, what is? And all the while Castro, in his perverted mind, thought he had “found” true love. Let’s get real folks! And it seems this was NOT the first time Castro had gone after young, straight, unsophisticated younger guys with similar intentions. Hopefully no one was hurt in thos previous escapades. Unfortunately now Castro has met his end in a very gruesome way and in the process the life of a promising young man was been irretrievably changed and his future will never be the same. It is horrible what happened to Castro. Is it a bigger tragedy what’s happened to Renato? You’re damned straight it is!
Soupy
Keep trying to be damn straight.
Spinny64
@Soupy: Very good Soupy. I was wondering if anyone would comment on the “damned straight” expression, and how quickly. You get the prize….
justiceontherocks
@Spinny64: Me and my kind?? That would be normal people whoa re not obsessed with 20 year old homicidal maniacs.
I hope your wife finds these comments of yours. She’ll haul your worthless ass into divorce court and then she’ll own the trailer all by herself.
I hope you get your self image problems under control soon.
Spinny64
Forza Renato! Deus esteje sempre contigo e que te proteja de tudos os males. CORAGEM RENATO!
Spinny64
@justiceontherocks: They don’t allow trailers on the Upper East Side.
Soupy
Well then, it will be an expensive divorce.
Ken S
@Spinny64: Hey, fucktard, just because most gay people expect- rightfully so- not to be vilified and abused for being gay doesn’t mean that we feel obliged to “tolerate” idiots. There’s a difference. Being gay isn’t inherently harmful. While certain socially constructed aspects of our ‘subculture’ might deserve scrutiny, there’s nothing about merely being gay that deserves intolerance. Being an idiot, on the other hand, can be tremendously harmful to others. And someone who remains an idiot day-in and day-out rather than working to educate and enlighten themselves is *choosing* their destructive, intolerable ‘lifestyle.’
I’d tolerate you up one side and down the other for being gay (or straight, or black or white or brown or yellow, tall or short, muggle-born or otherwise, male or female or something else). That doesn’t mean I am required or should be expected to tolerate you for being a fucking idiot. There’s nothing wrong with liking dick but there’s nothing right with stupid.
Spinny64
@Ken S: I’m not vilifying gay people or any other group as a whole. Castro, on the other hand, is a legitimate target due to his BEHAVIOR. Behavior of a predatory nature that led to disastrous consequences and in the process ruined two lives: he lost his, and Renato’s is irretrievably damaged. Again, what Renato is accused of doing is reprehensible. But this never would have happened had Castro not been a predator and started this whole sordid chain of events by going after and enticing Renato. SERIOUSLY, you, and everyone interested in knowing the facts of what led to the events on January 7 in NYC, should get a hold of those Facebook text messages. After you’ve read them, then let me know what you think.
Ken S
@Spinny64: My point wasn’t about the specifics of this gold-digging call-boy murdering his enamoured older patron.
My point was that you’re a fucking idiot. Which is why it’s pointless arguing any further about the the murder, or your fucking idiot apologies for the murderer. The point now is to “call a spade a spade” and submit for the immortal posterity of the internet that you are a fucking idiot.
And that calling people “intolerant” because they find you to be a fucking idiot is trying to play a victim card that you don’t have in-hand. Just because we’re a marginalized minority doesn’t mean that we have to have some special Tolerance Camp place in our hearts for fucking idiots. Fucking idiots aren’t some unjustly persecuted group targeted because of their innate characteristics. You aren’t part of some fucking idiot civil rights movement; there isn’t going to be a Fucking Idiot Pride parade between black history month and the anniversary of Stonewall. You can’t make anyone feel bad by crying “intolerance!” when the thing we aren’t tolerating is your fucking idiocy.
Spinny64
@Ken S: Wow! Such a display of open mindedness… Using your logic, anyone who disagrees with you or has a point of view different than your own is f****** idiot. Is the reverse also true? Why do you choose to ignore facts? Facts are stubborn things, no matter how much you may object to them and wish they’d just go away. You also sound like you’re a professional victim or a “victocrat” of some sort. I would never want to be either of the two.
Soupy
Maybe you could be an honest man with your wife. Try it. It’s wrong to keep deceiving her.
Ken S
@Spinny64: Again you try to stake this claim to the language of genuinely wronged people. “Open mindedness?” I’m plenty open-minded. But I *do* still have a rational filter that works pretty well at keeping stupid shit out of my mind. Conceding every idiotic viewpoint as equally valid isn’t “open-mindedness,” it’s laziness. It’s vegetating. And I have plenty of non-fucking-idiot friends with whom I disagree on various things. You aren’t a fucking idiot *because* you disagree with me. You’re a fucking idiot because you’re a fucking idiot. And this “disagreement” just happens to have shone a spotlight on the fact.
So keep talkin’, fucking idiot. It won’t change anything; I think everyone here realizes that we’re in stasis. There’s you– the fucking idiot– and there’s, like, *everyone else* who’s kept arguing with you this long either because we’re disgusted by your fucking idiotic stand on this crime, or because we couldn’t believe that anyone could be as genuinely fucking idiotic and were trying to show you the grossness of your error and maybe redeem you somehow.
I’m passed disgust and disbelief, now I’m content to just proclaim the one immutable fact in all of this: that you are a fucking idiot.
Spinny64
Bravo guys (gals?)!! As always, personal invective and innuendo are truly the last resort of intellectually bereft and morally deficiient points of view.
Soupy
I would think that defending and desiring a psychotic hustler/murderer would be the last resort of the morally deficient.
Why are you here? No one agrees with your point of view. I’m sure there are a lot of sites for self-loathing gays, religious fundamentalists, and old bigots to chat who would agree with you.
justiceontherocks
@Spinny64: What are you trying to prove by being here, other than your infatuation with a boy who has confessed to a homicide? Point taken.
We are all aware that the biggest bashers are the people in the closet. I suggest you quit being annoying on this blog and go have a long talk with your wife. I doubt she will be surprised.
Anyway, we all wish you some happiness in your life and hope you’ll get over your very strange obsessions. Just please do it somewhere else.
Spinny64
@justiceontherocks: Sympathizing with someone and lamenting the tragedy involved in the loss of a promising young person’s future is not an infatuation nor an obsession. You characterization is incorrect. Do you have children? Or a nephew or other family members the same age as Renato’s? If you do, you might have a different perspective. I thank you for your wishes of happiness nonetheless, and wish you the same.
Soupy
I think that I would sympathize with and lament the tragedy involved in the loss of a young person’s life who had fought disease, poverty, or died in an accident, or was a victim of crime. If this young person had murdered and mutilated another human being, no, not so much. You must have sided with the Nazis too.
Spinny64
@Soupy: Are you a parent? If not, then I don’t think you’ll ever fully understand my perspective. This is not a criticism, by any means, just a guess as to why we can’t agree on this point. One of the portuguese language articles on this story I recently read deals with Renato’s mother, Odilia Pereirinha, visiting her son in Bellevue for the first time since his detention. Renato’s reaction was to hug his mom, not letting go, and only saying over and over: “Mae, preciso muito de ti”– “Mom, I need you very much.” To a parent, it makes NO difference what the circumstances are when your son or daugher is in need of you. Any good parent will move heaven and earth to do whatever is necessary for his or her kids. Nothing, absolutely nothing, changes the fact that they are your own flesh and blood. It is a bond that is beyond breaking.
To mention the Nazis is really irrelevant here. You also seem bent on not acknowledging the sequence of events that transpired, lead to, and resulted in the gruesome outcome of January 7 in NYC.
So, I ask everyone reading this comment, not just Soupy: Are you guys ok with a gay predatory queen purposefully seeking, enticing, and preying upon an unsophisticated, most likely unwise to the ways of the world (particuarly those of the “arts and croissant” crowd), young man from a small rural town in Portugal? Is this acceptable behavior? Yes or No. No pun intended, but just me give me a straight answer. I’m very interested in your responses. Remember, just a simple YES or NO will do.
Soupy
No, I’ll never understand your perspective. I would have to be a self loathing gay with a man crush on a psychotic murderer to understand it.
justiceontherocks
@Spinny64: Yes, I do have a child. A very happy and well-adjusted son. I don’t know what that has to do with it. I don’t overlay what happens to others on him. That’s kind of pointless, since he has troubles and concerns enough on his own.
And, aside from all the back and forth of the internet forums, I really do feel like you have an obsession with the Portugese kid, for whatever reason. I’m not qualified to say that it’s unhealthy, but suspect it may be.
Spinny64
I appreciate everyone’s free psychiatric evaluations. No doubt they are worth exactly every penny of free advice.
Why won’t anyone answer, directly, the question before you: are you ok with a predatory queen purposefully seeking, enticing, and preying upon an unsophisticated, most likely unwise to the ways of the world (particuarly those of the “arts and croissant” crowd), young, straight man from a small rural town in Portugal? Is this acceptable behavior? Remember, just a simple YES or NO will do.
Ken S
@Spinny64: “To a parent, it makes NO difference what the circumstances are when your son or daugher is in need of you. Any good parent will move heaven and earth to do whatever is necessary for his or her kids.”
Y’know what– great, HIS MOM will love him and defend him to the bitter end. Because they’re family. Y’know how *everyone else* is supposed to react to one human being brutally murdering another in cold-blooded? With scorn. With exile or destruction. With the full force of evolutionary outrage that commands us to purge our pack or tribe of rabid, dangerous rogue members. Your pandering to a manipulative, opportunistic killer– one who isn’t even your blood– is deranged.
And here’s the other thing. Just because blood often overrides our otherwise-better judgment and compels us to forgive the unforgivable? That doesn’t make it *good.* It is, after all, a *lapse* in our judgment. Defending a murderer because they’re family might make you feel good, but it still lets a *murderer* into your home. That isn’t virtue, it’s stupid.
So I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised that you’re such a proponent… since you’re a fucking idiot.
Incidentally, if I ever have a kid and they get into a relationship that I don’t think is good for them? I’d encourage them to *walk* away. I might tell the other person that I think they should get lost. But if any kid of mine savagely butchered another human being? If they broke the cardinal rule of civilization– that is, not murdering each other? I’d keep with civilization, and throw my wayward murdering child to the hands of justice. Because the sentiment that says to do otherwise is a *lapse.* It’s irrational. Murderers gots’ t’ fuckin GO.
Soupy
are you ok with a predatory queen purposefully seeking, enticing, and preying upon an unsophisticated, most likely unwise to the ways of the world (particuarly those of the “arts and croissant” crowd), young, straight man from a small rural town in Portugal?
You see, Spinny, the way you load the question full of conjecture and assumption is ridiculous. You don’t know if Renato is straight. How about cleaning that out? Just ask, do you have a problem with an older man contacting a young man of legal age, possibly just for sex? No. I don’t. The young man has a choice. If he intends to make money for sex, he is a prostitute. If he decides to kill and mutilate his “patron”, he does not deserve sympathy.
Spinny64
@Soupy: The basis for the question is the information that’s out there based on various reports, particularly portuguese language stories. So, it could be conjecture, but based on the information avaialble, it does not appear to be so. I’m going to bet that it isn’t.
So, assuming the information upon which the question is formulated is correct: are you ok with a predatory queen purposefully seeking, enticing, and preying upon an unsophisticated, most likely unwise to the ways of the world (particuarly those of the “arts and croissant” crowd), young, straight man from a small rural town in Portugal? Is this acceptable behavior? Remember, just a simple YES or NO will do.
Soupy
And there you go, assuming again. Maybe you should shift your focus to someone a little more wholesome and “innocent”. Justin Bieber perhaps.
ines
A única coisa que interessa aqui é: uma pessoa matou outra e tem de ser castigada, ponto final. O resto é conversa fiada…