Queerty is better as a member
Cue the Savage haters in 3…2…1
Lets be fair Chad, they’d be posting no matter what this article was about.
The right-wing nutjobs are explicitly ignoring why calling a gay person a faggot is an insult: faggot isn’t bad merely because the word is verboten; its bad because of the connotations of subservience, etc. Savage’s usage is correct.
Oh Dan Savage what the hell have you done? Obviously a very tasteless comment that resulted from some intense emotions, but it’s not like GOProud or their defenders are doing themselves any favors with the blanket statements about liberal gays. God forbid we have a hard time swallowing the endorsement of a homophobic man by a group of fellow GLBT. This is aside from the fact that the political party he’s with has been the primary opponent of social equality for a very long time. That’s just icing on the shit cake.
Grouping us all together and insinuating that Mr. Savage speaks for all of us, or that we’re some sort of hive mind, is just as insulting be it slur or no slur. Even if I don’t entirely understand the rationale of a GOProud member, I would never even joke about them being subhuman. Unfortunately subhuman is how Michelle Malkin perceives liberals and obviously gay liberals as evidenced by her hypocritical plantation remark.
Yes, I’m sure the word “faggot” was NEVER thrown around at any GOP convention.
I also have to say that Ben Shapiro’s comments highlight a disturbing trend — people are now being accused of bullying when they voice a differing opinion. I heard Savage’s remarks to the high schoolers and he was simply pointing out the hypocrisy in the Bible. Now the right is calling him a bully because of it. Absurd. I also find it strange that Michelle Malkin even dares to conjure up the plantation image.
Well, that WAS a stupid comment from Dan Savage. A spectacularly stupid comment, in fact. One that plays straight into the hands of conservatives. Well done lad, well done…
Dan only said what a LOT of us are thinking. IMO, GOProud is an abomination and deserves every gay epithet slung their way.
This makes me dislike him a lot.
I appreciate Dan’s work, but the loose cannon effect is not helping, it just throws more gas on an already out of control fire. Being balanced and clear and being enraged are two tactics that with forethought and patience, can meet in the middle, having a much more profound effect to the positive.
Savage was far too kind.
He used the wrong word.
I, myself, am a happy, gay faggot.
But, those gay GOP clowns are just delusional, self-loathing and contemptible pawns. They’d sell out their own mothers just to kiss the ass of any right wing nut job who would despise their very existence.
These gay Republicans dress up in suits, and mimic the words of their right wing tormentors as some sort of disguise in the hopes of gaining some token of acceptance, much as a whipped dog cowers to its master’s whip.
@Clueless: The more I hear about him the more I dislike him – fortunately, he’s unheard of here in the UK. Still, it was a deeply stupid comment, it just gives these who oppose equality more ammo. What a pillock!
GOProud is a joke that was kicked out on its ass by the republican party. It should be treated like a sick joke instead of made into martyrs by loose-cannon tweets by Savage. That being said, sometimes all you have left is anger and hate, and I’m ready to let loose on some of these shit-eating gay republicans myself.
Apparently Savage’s use of the word “faggot” means “someone who is aggressively STUPID”.
he is making a very CLEAR reference to a civil rights term…one that involves another incendiary word that negatively referred to African-Americans who willingly participated and cooperated with slave owners…i think his point is well said and absolutely true. Brutal and shocking but apt and historically important to observe.
dan savage is an idiot….PERIOD!
>I’m ready to let loose on some of these shit-eating gay republicans myself.
Name the time and place pal.
If you folks want to vote for Obama go ahead, my opinion of individual GLBTs is not affected by who they vote for, but their overall character. And when they insult me or other individuals in a reckless, ignorant manner it speaks for itself.
“There’s no worse form of anti-gay bullying than to use slurs like the one Savage did here. – Shapiro”
Seriously? No worse form? Being called out on Twitter for being subservient to people who are happy to use your stupidity to further anti-gay goals is the “worst form” of bullying possible? Here’s an unqualified “FUCK YOU, YOU IGNORANT PIECE OF SHIT, BEN SHAPIRO.”
@Clockwork: Oh, if you are gay and are seriously going to vote for Romney who has called for a Federal Amendment to permanently classify you as a second class citizen, I have NO problem of attacking and insulting an absolute imbecile like yourself. Not only are gay republicansy self-hating idiots, they are the worst excuses for human beings on the planet currently.
@Clockwork: I’m thinking you might be new here, and don’t understand the overall mindset of the majority of people who peruse this site. The laws of Gayville dictate that we can never, ever say anything but wonderful things about other gays—no matter what. If you stray and dare to question the wisdom of gay heroes like Dan Savage and Rosie O’Donnell, you, like me, will find yourself on the unpleasant end of gay vitriol and being called a slew of childish names. Just thought I’d give you a heads-up.
@Kamuurie: What a class act you are.
Yes. Queen Bigot Malkin was unhappy. Good. She cray cray.
@Big Effing Patriot:
Thanks amigo for the heads up, actually I am a veteran of the GLBT blogsphere and I always post what I believe.
>who has called for a Federal Amendment to permanently classify you as a second class >citizen
Both parties have some ideas that are muck and will never see a signature pen. At the moment Obama has more muck than Romney.
>gay republicans ….are the worst excuses for human beings on the planet currently.
That’s some serious company, personally I think I have more class than Bashar al-Assad.
I love Dan Savage. We need more people like him to speak the truth.
well like him or not he was right here..
“GOProud isn’t a pro-gay rights organization, they’re an organization of gay quislings and useful idiots that help to window-dress the republican party which is really still rabidly anti-gay to it’s core. It’s a little window dressing, a little gay window dressing, that allows them to appeal to moderates perhaps and independents as being less bigoted than the republican party actually is.”
And he was right in his tweet. Wake the fuck up people! As the parties get further out to the edges these are the people who will run the party and they want us camped or killed for their faith. that is the heart of the Far right, we dont like to talk about it but its whats out there.
@Well: Dan Savage thinks you’re a faggot. That’s speaking the truth? Okaaaaay . . .
Regarless what words Savage used, it still doesn’t change the fact that Republicans are against gay people’s rights and freedoms and the GOProud support them even when the Republicans don’t support them.
I have a feeling the GOProud is a ploy by the Repubicans and they are not run by gay people at all. I’m going to need them to produce some theater tickets, a female diva CD, and a bottle of Astroglide on my desk in the morning.
@Chris: It’s a brilliant method to get a point accross. Had he tweeted anything less offensive it wouldn’t be making the internet blogging rounds and this very thread wouldn’t exist. Dan Savage is playing the media like a fiddle – to your benefit.
GOOD FOR HIM!
Taking a page out of the GOP/Nazi handbook, anyone remember Bush and his “if you’re not with us, you’re against us”? Let’s start applying it to our own community.
The GOP are enemies. They are against LGBT Rights and equality. You can’t debate that. It’s fact.
GOProud has opted to align themselves with the enemy of the LGBT community. In essence, they are willing to throw the LGBT community under the bus by supporting candidates who are anti-LGBT.
They’re traitors to all in the community.
Remember – if you’re not with us, you’re against us. Looks like they’ve pretty much made it clear they’re against us.
perfectly said. well done,dan
Always curious when someone gets called out for telling the truth.
Dan Savage doesn’t represent they gay community. I would hope that people realize this. He’s ONE person with an often abrasive and unproductive way of communicating his prejudicial views.
@Clockwork: Voting for someone who would like to stick you in a concentration camp is definitely the best indicator of your character.
Btw, Dan Savage more than represents me in the LGBT community. Calling out the hypocrisy of Christians, doing more than anyone else to comfort LGBT youth, inviting hate groups to a public debate, calling out gay republicans for the true scull they really are, etc, etc…
What party other than the Republicans is moving out to the far edge? The Democrats? Make me laugh. The Libertarians? Har de har.
@michael: Unless its the B part of LGBT – Dan thinks all male bisexual teens are going through a phase.
@michael: Exactly, MICHAEL. You’re wrong, ME, Dan often calls out homophobic lies from the right wing. He’s great.
@Big Effing Patriot: The real “class act” is Shapiro. Kids are mercilessly tortured by their peers, people have their skulls caved in, and are lynched, around the world, for being gay. And Shapiro has the gall to claim that BEING CALLED OUT on supporting those very same people who do the anti-gay bullying, and want to enshrine discrimination into the US constitution, is the “worst form of anti-gay bullying possible.”
Shapiro makes light of the suffering and murder of LGBTs around the world, to score political points. THAT’s offense. THAT lacks class. So guess what? Yes, I say “FUCK YOU, SHAPIRO.” And I’d say it to his face. If there’s a hell, people like him are definitely on their way there.
>Voting for someone who would like to stick you in a concentration camp is definitely the best indicator of your character.
I love historical ignorance, I really do.
I also love people who have no historical perspective on the concentration camps of genocide from Poland, Bosnia, to Cambodia, Siberia….
@Clockwork: of course you’re going to post inane crap like that. Mormons hate you and you’re only kidding yourself if you don’t think they would light up an oven with you in it if they could get away with it. You are a disgrace to our community.
@Carl 1: and where do you get that from? I read his column on a regular basis and not once have I seen him give an indication bisexuality doesn’t exist in men.
Dan Savage’s comments are divisive, hurtful and damaging. Apparently anyone who does not think the group-think that he does is a fair target for slurs and abuse. Does it get better mean that you can insult people with whom you disagree? If so, we’re all in a mess. He does the gay cause no favors and the more I hear about his latest insult the less I like him. I think he’s let fame go to his head and is insulting just because he can get away with it; he has plenty of apologists on the gay left, as comments here clearly show. There IS a gay right, however, and his attempts to help divide the community into opposite camps is working perfectly.
“Pathetic selfish queens” would have been a more appropriate phrase for the go”proud” little people.
@Carl 1: He’s right…again.
@jay: when, as a gay man, you place the importance of the size of your wallet over the equal rights of the entire LGBT community then you are NOT part of the gay community. When it does not matter if the man you’re voting for eject our gay brothers and sisters from the military, stop.those who are in love from marrying, make sure anyone could be fired for being gay, etc, etc, simply because your love of money far outweighs you concern for others then u deserve to become an outcast from a sect which still struggles to no longer be outcasts.
Michael-Dan Savage does not represent the LGBT community or even all gay white men, he only represents himself. Dan Savage is highly biphobic, practices bisexual erasure, transphobic, and r a c i s t and has been all of these things for decades.
Those of us in Seattle and other areas of the Pacific Northwest know that Dan Savage is an opportunistic parasite who will not hesitate to throw you under the bus if you don’t fit into his vision of right wing Log-cabin-lite politics. The It Gets Better campaign does nothing to empower queer youth. In fact, we are seeing a whole generation of LGBT kids make these videos and then kill themselves, while Dan Savage tells them to pull themselves to up by their bootstraps and he profits off the dead by hawking his self-help books. what we need is action and strategy, a battle plan to help LGBT kids survive, and deal directly with the homophobes (for example, how to file a complaint and lawsuit against your school district) and not snake oil charms like the It Gets Better media sham.
@michael: He’s an odd one – he acknowledges that adult bisexuals exist, but that teenagers who identify as bisexual are confused or hiding their true sexuality. Here: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/bisexuals/Content?oid=8743322
All his talking points boil down to “I like bisexuals but….”, the exact same logic the bigots use against the LGBT community as a whole. And he hides behind the fact that he has the right to speak his mind, ignoring that it may not be right to ustilise that right. Opinions like his kept me in the closet about my bisexuality for nearly a decade. His words have real potential to harm bisexual youths.
It gets better is just a bullshit PR campaign, nothing more. Telling LGBT and hetero kids to put up with bullying until they leave school is not constructive advice. It’s cruel. School boards, school administrators, teachers, etc, need to have zero tolerance policy for bullying. It’s not uncommon for teachers to bully unpopular kids themselves. That’s where the changes need to be made… The reason “It Gets Better” caught on with politicians and celebrities is because it’s great PR and it requires absolutely NOTHING from them in the way of real action.
Carl-Dan Savage also completely supported the 2005 “study” by Dr. J. Michael Bailey that said that men are either gay or hetero and can’t be bisexual. IF you watch the bisexual documentary Bi the way he even says this directly on camera. For decades whenever bisexual men would come up as a topic he’d claim that men can’t really be bisexual or that gay men should avoid dating bisexual men.
I’m not sure why so many it gets better queens worship Dan Savage and pretend that he’s not biphobic, transphobic, or rac_ist. He blamed the entire passing of prop 8 in the state of California solely on black voters which is not only completely wrong it’s rac_ist.
He’s just a media whore and on the same level as the Bachmanns, Rick Santorum, and Rev. Fred Phelps but he’s a part of the LGBT community so it makes him nothing but a hypocrite.
Reverse psychology wouldn’t work this way. Whenever anyone plays that “You’re either with us, or against us” card with me, I go ahead and tell them to mark me down as the latter. You’re not going to bully or browbeat me into siding with you to complete submission. If that makes us ‘enemies,’ then so be it.
michael, it’s not for you to say whether or not I’m a part of the gay community. I am gay and I am a part of this community, whether you think so or not; what seems to differentiate me from you is my political stance. You don’t know me and have no idea of what I believe, you make assumptions that because I am on the right it is my wallet that speaks. You are wrong. It is my belief that government should have a minimal place in our lives, economic and otherwise. I do not agree with many positions taken by others on the right but I certainly don’t agree with most positions taken by those on the left. Dan Savage is exploitative, divisive and loves attention and clearly he’s a useful tool from the left to advance its politics of division. We simply don’t agree here, michael, but we each have the right to voice our opinions.
@Mike: It is constructive advice. Kids–especially in rural areas–often think that their terrible experiences in high school will follow them for the rest of their lives, when the fact is that you’re never again forced into a situation where you *have* to interact with people that are bullying you. And letting them know that other people have been through the same thing, and know how much better it gets after they get out, is hardly a “bullshit PR campaign.”
Maybe, in your experience, it didn’t “get better” for you once you left school, either because your school experience wasn’t bad or your post-school experience still is bad. But that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t get better for the majority, which it does.
GOProud has no room to talk after what they did.
In context of what GOProud did, Savage’s remark makes perfect sense.
Yep. GoProud called someone a faggot, too.
All these folks who think Dan doesn’t believe in Bi people clearly don’t listen to his show. He went over a new study AT LENGTH that proved not only that bisexual men exist but also that the mistake of the first study was that they allowed any men who claimed to be bisexual to participate which skewed the results. Not taking people at their word that they are bisexual proved that there are indeed bisexuals.
And I have no pity or sympathy for the GOProud crowd or any gay Republicans for that matter.
If you want Dan’s current stance on all things Bi listen to Podcast 288 – originally aired April 24. He doesn’t hate them or disbelieve in them.
I don’t know why Dan would call them any word that traditionally refers to gays, whether it’s negative or positive. GOProud members aren’t gay, they are Republicans that suck dick. Acting like they are gay is like accepting that the reason priests in the Catholic church do what they do to young boys is because they are gay. GOProud is not a group of gay people, gay people have a heart and a soul.
The issue here of course is GOf*ggot, who are of course a front group paid to propagate the talking point that “GLBT rights aren’t important when compared to jobs and the economy”.
They employ several PR tricks amd logical fallacies to accomplish this.
The most obvious, of course- the false dichtomy. That is “either GLBT rights or the economy/jobs”
Frankly with Obama, it isn’t an either/or situation. But with Romney and most on the right it’s definitely a big NEITHER/NOR.
Next, the appeal to patriotism. “If you care about America, you’ll put America first”
The truth is, the most patriotic thing you can do is question your country and stand up when things are going terribely wrong.
Putting your fingers in your ears and pretending everything is OK is NOT under any circumstances “patriotic”.
There are, any more, too many to discuss here but I’m sure most rational people get te point. They are puppets with anti gay bigots’ hands up their asses (that statement may stir up anti anal sex imagery for a certain “independent conservative” princess. Here’s a tip -get the f over it)
As for Savage, even I have disagreed with some of his antics before. But the truth remains – we need aggressive personalities like him fighting for GLBT rights.
Equality needs to be fought on many different fronts. The peaceful, passive protester is needed. As is the assertive type who says what needs to be said, and does what needs to be done.
But so is the aggressive type. The one who will say publically what the rest of us dare not say. The obnoxious loudmouth who will grab people’s attention and tell them how it is.
Like it or not – it’s a fact.
I too appreciate the work Dan has done for teens and him standing up against bullying, BUT, this is wrong. He shouldn’t say things like this and this isn’t the first time that he himself has been caught bullying others! I don’t think anyone should use the F word. Its just as bad as the N word.
@Mk Ultra: Very well said Ultra. The fact is, we don’t have a Dr. King. a Nelson Mandela or a Gandhi or anyone who really embodies and projects that type of energy with little ego. The closest we probably came was with Milk. Celebrities like Dan or Ellen are actually the closest thing we have to someone who is a household name, who is well known and gets their voice and message out there. Even those who have made it their “Life’s Work”, wear Banana Republic and manage to milk it into political appointments are pretty much milk toast and invisible to the general public. Some folks may not like it but Dan represents us more than most and those who don’t approve are welcome to see if they can do any better.
Charlie-That’s BS, Dan can claim that he believes in bisexual men but he is still highly biphobic, practices bisexual erasure, and has done so for decades. In the rant that Carl linked you can see how Dan is still biphobic and still practices bisexual erasure.
Dan Savage has done a lot of good for all LGBT people, especially young people. His methods may be perceived as offensive at times, but remember he is speaking to a group of people who are intransigent in their beliefs about gays. No question that Dan appears to be crude by some standards, but those standards are usually being held by uptight, phobic, people. Many of the homophobic people are simply unwilling to face their own same sex attractions. Dan seems to have little patience for these types, who so willingly misuse the bible to condemn us.
Yet again Dan Savage opens his mouth and pure vile shit comes out. Dan Savage is not doing any good for LGBT people or LGBT youth. He only cares about himself and he clearly started the “IT gets better” project not to actually help LGBT youth but to get a reality TV show on MTV, fame, media exposure, and lots of money.
Savage is an idiot who craves publicity.
Dan shouldn’t have called them faggots. He should have called them Nazi supporters. That said, I have to laugh at all the gays (I assume) that are bashing him. There is an interesting phenomenon in the gay community that puts pressure on to be all P.C. and it’s just shows how little we think of ourselves. If a Jew calls Hitler a derogatory term nobody is going to lambast them no matter what that name is. If a black person calls a white supremest a name nobody would with any intelligence would either but for some reason we are supposed to whitewash it with our enemies. Romney is our enemy. The cult he follows is our enemy. His kind have made great efforts to strip our rights away and have found success. It started out the same way in Germany. Call me dramatic but while the Jews remained all P.C. and hoped for the best it just kept getting worse. This didn’t happen in ancient times either and it’s now happening in modern times. So all of you pissy, self loathing types whose real problem with Dan is that he’s successful and done something with his life will just have to keep whining into your bowl of victim soup because many of us who do have self respect and some backbone really don’t care and fortunately for our community there are more of us than there are of you.
@James: So? Publicity is a necessary part of a successful career like his. I think you are just jealous and your judgments of him are really more about your own shortcomings in life. Bashing him really doesn’t put you any further up the food chain you know!
GOProud has declared open warfare on Gays.
Mitt Romney went before Congress to demand the U.S. Constitution be amended to outlaw gay marriage.
Mitt Romney stated he would NOT have signed the repeal of DADT.
Mitt Romney fired an employee when people complained he employed a gay man.
Mitt Romney donated money to NOM.
GOProud endorsing Romney would is in the same vein as a woman endorsing a member of the Taliban or a black person endorsing a KKK candidate.
GOProud is anti-gay.
To GOProud co-founder Christopher Barron:
“Apparently, faggot is an entirely appropriate slur as long as GOProud board member Ann Coulter is slinging it and people who you don’t agree with are on the receiving end.”
Cam is exactly right. And they just spin and spin, never addressing the gay hate oozing non-stop from the Republican Party. Why they bother calling themselves a “gay rights” organization is a mystery.
And clutch the pearls, but Jimmy LaSaliva himself of GoProud Mary’s isn’t above using the “f” word to talk about gay men HE doesn’t like. Check out his twitter history. So the organization is hypocritical across every single level.
I also agree with Cam. GOProud is anti-gay. I appreciate Dan Savage pointing this out because they propagate the self loathing that so many of us are trying to eradicate. Thanks for that Dan.
Do we really need that idiot and media whore Dan Savage to tell us that Log-Cabin republicans and GOProud are hypocrites and idiots, and against LGBT People?
Then again as SeattleQueer wrote Dan Savage is not the most liberal person either and is actually very conservative. He completely supported the 2nd Iraq war!
@MikeNYC: No, we as gay people probably don’t need to tell us that. If we do then we certainly have problems. But we do need somebody to tell the rest of the world the truth and usually that’s done through the media. It would seem that a media “whore” is the perfect person to do it. Youth listen to him and not just our youth. Like him or not, he’s a voice that gets heard. Who else should we choose, Joe Solmonese or another like him? His type command so little attention that they could put a room full of insomniacs to sleep. We live in a world where everything is communicated through the media. Hell we are using the media right now.
@Nelson: Nelson, I’ve seen Dan Savage many times on Keith Olbermann’s previous shows, and I’ve never heard him say that he represents the gay community. He says things that many, many gay people in the community respects and understands. I’m Dan knows very well that that are still some in the community who do not agree with his views.
That said, I totally agree with what he said. GOProud people, self-loathing as they are, are willing to sacrifice their identity for money. It’s sad as sad can be.
@DrewSF: Even if the It Gets Better campaign saved just ONE life, it was worth it.
What have YOU ever done to help LGBT youth? Waiting for an answer…
GOCrap is a little side show the GOP circus takes out when they need to “shut up the gays”.
Only truly weak minded suckers take them seriously..
Savage is right go call them out.
It’s funny that clowns in the extreme right haze proudly show off their “poitical incorrectness”,
and yet, when it’s used against them they cry like babies.
Hey, GOCrap fans, it’s just a “different opinion”. I’m sure you can appreciate that.
Michael-Straight people don’t care about Dan Savage, don’t know who he is, and don’t listen to him. Nobody will ever take him seriously because of his sex column past, and he’s a media whore and “shock jock” it’s akin to Howard Stern being political.
i really dislike the “it gets better” attitude because it’s saying that bullying and harassment and shame is normal and acceptable. it’s saying that the attitudes and the systems behind that behaviour can never be changed so why try. it’s saying that if only you can tough out the first twenty-odd years of your life then you’ll emerge into a magical adult land of equality where things are Better.
and that’s just bullshit, isn’t it.
hiding behind the flawed pretence that “it gets better” is just another way to avoid having to face the original problem. the only way anything will get better is if we stop pretending that closing our eyes and covering our ears will make the problems go away.
Samwise if you know Dan Savage very well then you’ll know that he’s nothing but a hypocrite, bigot (especially towards bisexuals and trans people), and he’s childish, viscous, and only uses people to get what he wants and throws a bitch fit temper tantrum when she doesn’t get her way. He’s also not that politically liberal at all. He was all for the 2nd Iraq war and he completely blamed the passing of prop 8 election on black people.
I work with LGBT youth at a local LGBT center and I have done this as a volunteer on my own time, and I’ve done this for decades. I actually talk to them and take an interest in them instead of telling them the BS mantra of “It gets better! Here watch this video while I ignore you and your issues!”
The It gets better project and videos are not helping LGBT youth or saving lives since we’re seeing LGBT teens and adults who made IGB videos who make the choice to kill themselves.
So do you lie to them and tell them “it gets worse?”
@R.A.: No, you help them make it better. Simply *saying* “it gets better” is meaningless without action. Without action they’re just empty words. Even if all you do is sign a petition, offer a shoulder to cry on or simply say “ignore them, they’re just jealous”. Actions count, not a one minute web video.
Oh, spare me, Brian Brownshirt! You’re outrage is totally fake and even in that you have to lie, so transparent.
@DrewSF: Drew, it’s not helping. Where are your stats. I worked as a counsellor at a LGBT youth drop in center and the youth adored him. Where are your stats? Where is your proof? Your assertions are hateful, absurd and negative and cast a shadow on your ability to be a positive roll model around youth.
DS is controversial, but correct. And he’s not an official spokesperson for anyone. And the House-*** reference was truly awesome, if for no other reason than that it surely caused much consternation among the 90-IQ Midwest Christianites. Well, after it was explained when they were able to tear themselves away from the copy of Leviticus they keep on their smartphone for quick reference.
GOProud is a pathetic cabal of unwitting tools for the GOP biggots to wield at need.
It’s nice that the hypocritical bigots are suddenly concerned about our feelings, though. That said, I’d much prefer that they call me a fag*ot whenever they please but stop stripping me of equal protection under the law. I’m not holding my breath, although I’m pretty good at it…
ChicagoPete, I don’t claim to know Savage very well. I claim to know the things he has said about gay rights and gay youth. I honestly don’t give a rats ass about what he said about Iraq. Prop 8 happened years ago and I feel that many black people helped its passing (though not as much as the Mormons did.) I think many black people have changed their minds… proof is the statement on gay marriage by the NAACP (I commend them.)
And referring to Dan Savage, a gay man, as “she” is totally in line with what GOProud members and the GOP says. Advice: stop being a traitor.
Correction to post #68
Dan knows very well that that are still some in the community who do not agree with his views.
Don’t feel too bad about not knowing ‘much’, Master Gamgee. Pete knows practically nothing about him. There are, by my count, three demonstrable falsehoods in his rant, and a fourth point that is quite debatable. I’m not going to enumerate them all, because I don’t want to get into a flaming (wink) session with him.
To be fair, Dan does indeed throw the not-so-occasional (and always EXTREMELY entertaining) bitch-fit, which C.P. seemingly doesn’t comprehend is one of the underpinnings of his celebrity. I am utterly baffled by “to get what he wants”, though. What Savage *wants* are things like equal protection, marriage equality, full recognition, removal of naked bigotry from state constitutions which instead should be cherished linchpins of liberty, and oh yeah, maybe less gay kids hanging themselves. I’m sure I’ve missed a few more.
If you’d like sterile, ineffective, but certainly much less offensive gay press releases, click on over to GLADD or HRC. They’re always very polite.
I don’t agree with GOProud’s politics and wouldn’t ever consider voting for Romney.
But what’s the substantive difference between Dan Savage calling someone a “faggot” for voting for the “wrong” candidate/policy and a Republican doing the same to any other gay person?
Either bullying is “always wrong,” or it isn’t. Savage cannot scream hate-words and then complain that others are screaming hate-words.
But what’s the substantive difference between Dan Savage calling someone a “f*ggot” for voting for the “wrong” candidate/policy and a Republican doing the same to any other gay person?
Either bullying is “always wrong,” or it isn’t. Savage cannot scream hate-words and then complain that others are screaming hate-words.
(Reposted because Queerty’s censorship engine prevented the post with the uncensored word from being posted. If it’s unacceptable for Queerty comments, why is it acceptable for Dan Savage?)
I love Dan Savage.
GOProud, sorry if the truth hurts, but if you morons wish to vote against your own self interest like virtually all voters who vote republican do, that is your choice, but do it on your own time and live with that shame. How dare you use homosexuality as your organizing platform when you in no way will ever represent the vast majority of the wishes of LGBT American taxpaying citizens. Most of us are smarter then you all and don’t choose to vote away our civil rights. What the hell are you all thinking? There really is a sucker born every minute.
Democratic sanctimony over this is nauseatingly hypocritical.
I’m a Libertarian. My party has supported marriage equality since the 1970s. Greens have supported it since they formed in the USA. But both Libertarians and Greens have been slammed as “purists” by gay voters supporting homophobic Democrats like Bill Clinton and John Kerry for years.
You guys screaming histrionic hate speech at clueless Republicans for “supporting a party that hates us” have been doing the same thing for years as Democrats. Remember Bill Clinton’s DOMA law? Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell? “Marriage should be between a man and a woman?” You stridently defended your party’s homophobic positions in the recent past as “sadly necessary” and “what we need to win.”
And now that President Obama has come out with a limpid “leave it to the states” position that’s identical to Dick Fuckin’ Cheney, he’s somehow a superstar?
Give me a friggin’ break. Don’t try to differentiate yourselves on principle, you’ve avoided that for decades and choosing to do so now is just ridiculous.
@Be real.: What’s the difference? Really?
The GOP is hell-bent on denying me my civil rights, and when they say fag*ot, venom drips from their fangs and their eyes glow red with animus.
DS is a strident (OK, yeah, that’s euphemistic) advocate for my rights; The rights I have, and the ones I’ll hopefully get soon. And he’s entertaining while he’s doing it, too.
Bullying is by its nature an individual or group entity with superior sociopolitical standing or physical stature belittling, injuring or otherwise victimizing a member of a weaker group, or a weaker individual. Dan Savage is a not-particularly-well-known sex advice columnist who also does some hilarious in-your-face punditry. In this situation, fear not. I think GOProud’s 5-digit membership will be able to hold its own against Savage’s rather colorful and double-metaphorically clever tweet.
That’s the difference.
“The GOP is hell-bent on denying me my civil rights”
Sure, and the Democrats will make you promises and then later go back on them and deny you and me our civil rights.
Meanwhile, there are two other parties who uncompromisingly support your civil rights.
Your screeching about a lack of principle on LGBT issues and “selling us out” applies to Democrats as well as Republicans. Perhaps less so than a Santorum or a Romney, but the “leave it to the states” Dick Cheney-Barack Obama marriage segregation position is hardly once that people who desire real equality under the law can get behind. A position they’re not even willing to put in their party platform for this year’s election.
You’re not in a position to bash the Republicans for compromising on our rights if you’re supporting the current Democratic Party position on our rights. You’re certainly not in a position to call the other guys “house f*ggots” if you’re also willing to sell out full, uncompromising equal rights for every American in every state by voting for Barack Obama this fall.
@Be real.: The discussion was about Dan Savage’s tweet, wasn’t it? But since we’re here, and in the same order as your post…
The Dems have in no way ‘denied’ gays anything. If you don’t have the votes, you don’t.
I admire the minority parties for their effort and convictions, but they do not and will not figure significantly into the political conflict.
I seldom screech. I prefer to bitch in a self-satisfied and arrogant manner, quite often interspersed with biting sarcastic dismissal of my opponents. And as to your use of the word “San****um”, please try to employ more civil language.
I think B.O. would establish full equality tomorrow if he were suddenly declared king and was thus immune to the political fallout. Unlikely, though. In the mean time, screaming from the rooftops that he disagrees with moderate voters in swing states about gay issues hurts his chances of reelection, and we’re not going to get any further progress if Mitt gets the big chair. These are political practicalities which can not be ignored from an ivory tower.
I am in a position to bash the GOP. I have a keyboard right here at my desk, and this is a very comfy chair. I think it’s sort of one of the uses of comment boards, isn’t it? I definitely wouldn’t have come up with “house fa**ots” myself; Dan’s far more clever than I. I’d probably have said something less metaphoric and more pedantic, like “self loathing whor*s to their own economic interests.” If you gave me more time, I could do better, but I’m supposed to be working.
Seriously, I wouldn’t even have bothered with typing all this, except that I can tell you feel passionately about your convictions, though I think you must realize they’re idealistic. I sympathize with your frustration; The situation su*ks, and progress should be more forthcoming. And finally, I almost never see posts so lacking in spelling, grammar and punctuation errors, so it’s gratifying to e-duel with someone that can actually use the language properly.
I like Dan Savage and I agree with him. I have nothing but contempt for gay conservatives who support the haters. Be conservative fine but don’t support candidates who advance anti-gay laws. Otherwise you are not being helpful to other gay people and in fact harming them. For that you get my contempt.
@mitchell: It’s sort of amazing that among all the hysteria and condemnation of Dan Savage, only a few get his historical reference.
He’s comparing GoProud to black slaves who, for whatever reason, lived in the big house with their white masters. In particular, some of these so called “house ni**ers” relished their proximity to the oppressor and considered slaves who toiled in the fields as inferior.
Dan Savage is saying GOProud is acting just like the house slaves of yore. Delusional and oppressed, yet they are able to justify their own miserable existence by currying favor with the master and attempting to claim some of the master’s importance as their own.
At least house ni**ers were actually in the house. GoProud can’t even make that claim.
So, lighten up. He makes a valid point invoking historical reference.
Although I am always wary of celebrity spokespersons, Dan has way more hits than misses.
I would, however, say dragging slavery and any form of the n-word into this is a mistake. Those poor slaves faced death for speaking the truth. They do not deserve to be compared to the despicable GOProud crowd.
Savage who blamed prop 8 on blacks and now thinks he can use the term “House” or reference slavery is an idiot and does not represent me or the larger LGBT community.
This issue will challenge all of us now that the Southern Baptist Convention has selected a black preacher to be the mouthpiece for its ignorance and hatred.
Dan Savage is just a well-paid shill for the Democraps playing your fears and bigotry against Republicans to keep you enslaved on The Plantation.
Don’t you dare think for yourself and question Obama’s failed record on economy, jobs and economic freedom! Don’t you dare want to elect President Romney to cut taxes and regulation and restore America’s global influence! Don’t you dare disobey all these clowns and fools who claim to represent the entire “LGBT community”
We are individuals first. We don’t take orders from your Community Organizers. Join our cause!
@GOProudest: You are putting everything and everybody before yourself and you can’t even see it. Like a Jew supporting Hitler to restore Germany to a egotistical grandeur at the price of their own destruction. You would support a man whose religion and own pocket book has and is being used to oppress us. Thank you for coming forward because I you’ve displayed the Ickiness and self hatred of those who make your organization for all of us to see. No, we don’t represent the entire LGBT community just most of it. Thank God. BTW, I’m no slave to the plantation, I’ve made more money since Obama has been president than I ever have in my life. A lot of money.
@michael: Congrats, your side just lost the argument: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
@GOProudest: Someone is confusing Godwins law itself, with a tradition on some forums associated with Godwins law. All the law states is that as any online conversation progresses the probability of a Nazi/Hitler comparison approaches 100%. It makes no assessment on the validity of said comparison.
SOME – not all – forums have adapted the law in that any reference to Hitler/Nazi automatically closes a thread and ends a discussion.
So, if you’re going to reference something, do it properly, you just had a Fact Fail (proven by your own link no less pmsl). Also, its worth noting that any other comparison of a group supporting someone who opposes them because some of their goals match would fit here, so the comparison is valid.
@Carl 1: Oh,, you don’t see the comparisons? Let me spoon feed them to you because you obviously don’t know history very well. The Nazi began by stripping the rights away from the Jews before the took them away to the camps. Why don’t you look at states like Tennessee, Ark, the list goes on that have stripped the rights not only to marry but to adopt, to be protected from discrimination as they have done in Tennessee, to enter into legal contracts. All Republican initiatives. So stop the pseudo intellectualism because the Nazi boot is fits. Obviously you think that it’s not oppression until they put you in an oven. So the Nazi comparison stands and it only shuts down the debate because you can’t debate the fact that it’s true. Nice manipulation but you lose.
@michael: You’re railing at the wrong person, I happen to think your analogy is correct. Heck, my final sentence states I agree with the comparison and also that any similar one would fit, thus the application of some forums etiquette based on Godwins Law is invalid: I was simply addressing the self-hating “GOProudest”‘s incorrect application of it. So why don’t you throw a hissy fit at them and not the person who agreed with you.
@Carl 1: Sorry Carl, I hit the wrong person. But I don’t think my reply should be defined as a hissy fit.
@GOProudest: No, you lost the argument by trying to manipulate Godwin’s law where it does not apply. Anyone who took World history in high school knows that the comparisons to the actions of the Nazi fit very well. You choose to ignore them. It is actually quite important that we keep the comparisons alive and well so that our young people know the potential outcome of systematically having their rights taken away, being used as a political tool to bring people together and demonize in order to bring a country together. Your usage of Godwin’s law is that you are trying to shut down a debate that you are losing, have lost.
Are we certain that GOProudest is real? When I read his first post, I thought this has got to be somebody’s idea of satire.
What gay person could possibly be ignorant, childish and tacky enough to use a word like “Democraps?”
That is the language of quasi-literate teenagers who post to al.com.
Calls ‘em as he sees ‘em.
Would not all the ex-gay gay crowd fit into the same House Fags category? They are panning to the str8 wh religious right while snubbing their own. Seems like it may be a fit to me.
@michael: You’re right, it was a valid post. I just have issues with having other peoples crap pinned on me (a hold-over from a previous job, where I was routinely the fall guy), my apologies.
@Carl 1: Gotcha and no worries. My refusal to wear my glassess got it all mixed up in the first place!
Dan Savage is just a temperamental hypocrite. His being gay and being temperamental and hypocritical over socio-political du jour is just meant to give an added gloss to someone who, if he wasn’t a gay, you probably wouldn’t like him anyway. But since he indulges in this tough talk from time to time, to a lot of people he’s just an impassioned defender of truth and righteousness and not, well, an aging gay man who’s prone to hissy-fits.
@Tolley: Nah, he’s just passionate and refuses to recede to the background and be a good boy in order to be accepted like so many gays are taught to be. Our youth need to be esteemed and learn to stand up for themselves and that it is fine to tell those that would abuse them to f’off. The way he handles things often does that. It’s impossible to dismiss someone as easily as you are attempting whose voice is actually heard and people pay attention to. Not something that is achieved by most of us. All your agism remarks about him are so stereo-typical and caddy. It’s no wonder we have so few real leaders when we dismiss anyone in our community as being relevant after they reach 30 y/o. It’s a rather juvenile way to debase and put a person “in their place” but in the intelligent universe (of which your own hissy fit is not a part of), it’s just considered akin to something that a bunch of botoxed bitches on an episode of “Real Housewives” would resort to win a cat fight.
Dan Savage is a douche, but GOProud should really not be supporting Romney, for many many reasons.
But please don’t judge the gay left by the actions of Dan Savage.
:”he’s just a…an aging gay man”
Someday you will age, too – unless you die first.
Dan Savage thinks that because he is gay it is okay for him to call people faggots. Thats just like black people who think that it is okay to call other blacks niggers. Words have meanings and those meanings don’t change with the users.
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