I don’t personally think that the location that I was at musically would have made any great difference. I think that what I was probably trying to say was that because I was away from the main band that was filling my life, Judas Priest, because I was always protecting Judas Priest, protecting the music, protecting the fans, protecting everybody except myself. I wasn’t able to say and do the things that I wanted to do until I was away and having these other musical adventures. So, I guess regardless of where I was musically at that time. The fact that I said and did what I did on that day wasn’t really much of an issue musically. But, anyway I think it is fair to say that I would have been probably more difficult. I probably would have not made the announcement had I been in Judas Priest at that time. Second, because as I said when you become protective of everybody else, you don’t protect your own needs. So, things happen in life for a reason, and that was the case with my coming out at that time. There are areas of music that are more compassionate, more tolerant, more open, more accepting and more aware. What I think I have done is destroy the myth that heavy metal bands don’t have that capacity. It’s a different world now. Heavy metal now is a completely different world compared to heavy metal in 1980. The gay and lesbian world is very different now as it was in 1980. We have all grown to some extent. There is still a long way to go. There are still a lot of issues that need to be addressed, but I think slowly but surely our lives are getting better.
—Rob Halford, the four-octave former Judas Priest singer and current Halford IV frontman, on whether coming out in the industrial music scene made things easier [via SDGLN]
4starmovie
Rob Halford is a god in his industry.
Fitz
I’ll just speak from my own selfish perspective. I was a teen during the Judas Priest era. Would have been nice if the hero of some of my tormentors had been out.
James Davis
Protecting the $ is more like it. And hey that is fine, but be honest and admit it.
Dollie
I’m truly sorry to hear of your experiences, Fitz. For what it’s worth (ha, probably not much!!), I went to high school after Halford’s coming out- and the metal “clique” always welcomed the queer kids with open arms. In fact, a lot of them were themselves. Perhaps that openess was Halford’s influence, or maybe not.
Furthermore, those kids went on to study and accomplish pretty complex and prestigious things. More so than my other peers. Perhaps something else that should be studied?
jason
Women are mainly responsible for homophobia. A lot of male reactions are framed by female expectations. When women are homophobic, it percolates into the male mindset and shapes his reactions to the world.
What drives female homophobia towards men? The fear that men are superior. The fear that male-male sexuality is superior. The fear of male-male promiscuity. The fear that a man who tastes the pleasures of another man won’t return to a woman. The inability of a woman to physically compete with another man for a man’s affections. All these things combine to create a jealousy/hate paradigm in women.
Much of the homophobia in the modern world can be traced back to the influence of women. Any empathy that women have for gay men is essentially a pity paradigm, and not a genuinely accepting one.
Dollie
Jason,
This will be the last time I respond to one of your posts.
This time I will not attack your views, but rather ask you to explain how you formulated such a theory. Please provide examples and facts (cited preferably), and lace your response with reason and logic.
Thanks.
rrr
@jason: That is totally wrong.
Our culture like most cultures in the world has been dominated by and shaped by men. Our cultural idea of “macho” and “masculine” and their importance has been developed primarily by straight men. Homophobia reflects the cultural belief that women and things related to women are inferior, weak and silly compared to men and things related to men. Coming across as gay and taking dick are both viewed by straight guys as acting like a woman, therefore inferior. Misogyny and homophobia go hand in hand.
Women do not worry about straight guys losing interest in pussy. Straight guys are obsessed with pussy the way we gay guys obsess about dick. When there is a rigid separation of the genders in a culture or environment that means straight guys are refused access to women some of them will end up turning to getting off with other men, but they obsess about women and want women. Women worry about straight guys raping them or taking advantage of them sexually with lies or drugs, they do not worry about them losing interest in women.
Fitz
@Dollie: Bad Dollie, bad. Go to your room and think about what you did. We do not encourage Jason.
Michael in Hawaii
@jason: Jason you can always, and I do mean always, be counted on to interject either a racist or sexist or absolutely-no-relevance-to-the-subject-matter comment. Sometimmes you give us a trifecta. Never boring; yet I find the universe that you inhabit to be a bit dark and voic of any warmth whatsoever.
DR
Allegations of selfishness aside, Rob managed, after coming out, to return to Judas Priest and record two more studio albums and headline a couple of major tours, and has managed to maintain his solo acts/side projects. He’ll even be touring with Judas Priest on their last world tour starting next year.
What was really great about the Judas Priest reunion back in 2003 was that the FANS demanded it. As a whole, they didn’t care about Rob Halford’s sexual orientation, they only cared that he could still bring it.
He’s put in over 30 years in the metal industry, and coming out didn’t destroy his career.
jacknasty
Honestly I’d respect him more if he were at least honest now and just said “I wanted to sell more records so I didn’t come out”. He wasn’t being honest then and he still isn’t now.
4starmovie
Maybe Rob Halford should have waited 12 more years then he did to come like Ricky Martin did with the release of an autobiography?
That would have been less opportunistic for sure.
But no…he came out in 1998 to a less than tolerant mostly male metal fan base where in it’s heyday big haired chicks with even bigger tits were worshipped.
Give the guy some fucking credit.
When was the last time someone checked on how many old hollywood douchebag actors are still cowering in the closest decades later?
alan brickman
3 reasons he didn’t come out…..money, money, and money…shame on you…
EGM
Jason is right in a sense. Women do frame a lot of homophobia. But tbh I think it’s a joint effort between men, women and closeted self-hating gays who then go on to bully others. To be fair closeted self-haters would be less prevalent if straight society (aka the men and woman above) were accepting from the outset.
But you can’t sit there and say women play no part in homophobia becase they certainly do and to assume less of thm is not to treat them equally. I have known some very clever and manipulative women who’ve put men’s prejudices to shame. Women exist within a framework of society but are not always the sweet innocent victims. Sometimes they are the perps.
damendo
I was a big fan of JP back in the days, I was a teenager at the time as well. I was not able to come out because of the “era” we were in. I was the typical “teen headbanger” of the time just like all my friends. We smoked weed, we listened to bands like JP, we gawked at girls and did what “boys” were expected to do. If I had come out to my friends at that time, I do not believe my friends would have understood or been so understanding. It was just the era we were in. Now, it does not matter. I was not a self-hater, I just was not comfortable being out at that time. And is it weird that I found Rob Halford hot, cuz he is no way near my type??
Tallskin
I can also add that in my experience women can be extremely homophobic.
Women and girls also strictly police adolescent boy behaviour, telling boys not to adopt this or that posture because it’s effeminate.
I often used to think that mothers like to mould their son’s behaviour to fit the perfect masculine image they have in the minds.
But at the same time women get turned on by two men having sex and showing male on male intimacy.
As for Judas Priest, I never saw the point, i always hated heavy metal music. I’ve never heard of this tosser. (I call him a tosser because he should’ve come out at the height of his fame)
DR
@4starmovie: “But no…he came out in 1998 to a less than tolerant mostly male metal fan base where in it’s heyday big haired chicks with even bigger tits were worshipped.”
That is 100% correct. People forget the times. Even coming out in 1998, depending on the milieu, was not easy. No one EVER wants to give credit where credit is due. There is this horrid assumption, and we’ve seen it in this thread and in the Kevin Spacey thread, that there is some moral obligation to come out regardless of the consequences because these people need to be owned by the gay population.
No, no, and triple no! They come out where they’re damned good and ready. They have no obligation to anyone here bitching about they didn’t come out soon enough. Unless you are close personal friends with Rob Halford, you have no idea how many people he was or was not out to before 1998. You don’t get to tell anyone they “have to” come out.
I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it, nasty and bitter gays men are the reason these guys don’t want to come out. How much crap must they take from the keyboard warriors?!?
Scott
I’ve always been a dedicated heavy metal fan. Symphony X, Emperor, KoRn, Metallica, Testament, Children Of Bodom..you name it!
It is actually very common for GBL teens to use this as an outlet considering it’s the kind of subculture that invites the ‘outcasts’ with open arms…but on the other hand, it’s sad to see that there is still a good amount of blatant homophobia in the industry. Still, it’s getting much better. Just the other week I saw a few gay couples getting close during a Deftones show.
TheInsider
@alan brickman: Yeap, just like Anderson Cooper, Zach Quinto, Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Matt Bomer and so many others. Shame on all of them.
mk
@Tallskin: Women and girls do not police adolescent boy behavior close to as hard as men and boys do. In fact, women and girls are usually the ones who like boys who are pretty, sensitive and non-macho and will try to defend those qualities from straight male derision.
Tallskin
@MK “Women and girls do not police adolescent boy behavior”
Excuse me???
I have no intention of getting into an argument with you over this, since you have no idea what you are talking about, coming on here making silly damned statements.
I guess my extensive experience of women and girls policing young male behaviour must have been from some alternative universe!
I personally was told when age 16 that I should not do this or that because if I do then I’ll never get a girlfriend!
I have witnessed many women giving social sanction to young men they consider too effeminate.
mk
@Tallskin: That’s not what I said. I didn’t say they don’t do it at all, I said they don’t do it nearly as hard as men and boys.
That is blatantly true. You don’t normally see gangs of girls beating up and tormenting effeminate boys the way gangs of boys sometimes do, the people most willing to befriend and openly support effeminate boys are girls and women, and if a parent has a seriously bad or violent reaction to a son’s effeminacy it’s more often a father than mother.
I personally was told when age 16 that I should not do this or that because if I do then I’ll never get a girlfriend!
That is not bullying, it just sounds like plain speaking. If you come across as flaming gay girls of course will be less likely to date you. You were gay, and if you had said so and that you aren’t interested in dating a girl it would have resolved that issue. Since the girls obviously thought you might be straight and want a girlfriend they would be correct in saying that acting queeny isn’t the way to get one.
Straight boys and men are usually partial to long hair, skirts, dresses and feminine characteristics. It’s not “policing” to acknowledge those facts or mention it to a girl with a crew cut and men’s clothes who can choose to disregard it or to announce she’s not interested in attracting guys anyway.
Tallskin
@MK ” That’s not what I said. I didn’t say they don’t do it at all, I said they don’t do it nearly as hard as men and boys.”
Er, then why say anything at all to contradict me???
LOL this is a conversation held by the insane!!
mk
@Tallskin: Your whole post was attributing policing of male gender stereotypes to women with nary a mention of straight guys. That’s what I was responding to.
Straight guys are the ones who by far are the major persecutors and most grievous persecutors of effeminate males. Girls and women are a major source of support of effeminate males and the major straight fanbase for effeminate male celebrities, which bears consideration. Straight guys as a group have much worse offences and straight guys provide no counter balancing large scale positive support service.
A lot of gender policing is done by guys in our own community too, and I’m talking about out guys not the closet cases. It’s our community not straight women who are always scrutizing gay public representatives and public figures for signs of effeminacy and then complaining bitterly about damage to the gay image if they are judged to be queeny.
swarm
Yeah Jason, cuz gay boys w female BFFs is so RARE. Coincidently one of yesterdays top Tweets:
“Dear gay boys, please stop being so much kinder, funnier, and more attractive than straight guys. Its quite depressing for me.”
@jason While I can usually see where you’re trying to go w anti women rants and sometimes can agree, gtfo now,bb. Women (moms) are afraid for their childrens’ lives if they end up being gay. But they are not paranoid about it. Which isn’t even your claim. You’re claiming that female homophobia stems from hostility over man with man and insecurity that their men will leave them. Where the hell did you get that???
The miniscule impact womens’ (mostly NORMAL moms’) phobia about homophobia makes on a boy’s mental state/life is by FAR overshadowed by his dad. Unless you’re talking about being born in a redneck Westboro family which obviously you’re not – since your argument is claiming it’s universal.
I know at least 10 straight women who’s long time husbands left them for men and not a single one harbors your hate OR even had a clue or suspicion beforehand. Only anger at the men who lived a lie for so many years. And the difficulty they’re left with dealing with the fallout on the kids.
Your theory is SO FAR out of reality, most of these women didn’t even realize that their sexless marriages were a big clue. No sex for 10 years? Oh lemme just miss that red flag. If your theory were in the least bit true all women would be hounding their men non stop about wanting to cheat on them with men. Another newsflash – these women didn’t even have much of a clue that men do anal. THAT’s how “out of the loop” they were and how little thought they ever gave to ~your theory.
Considering women excel at nagging and imaginary reasons for jealousy, if your thesis were even SLIGHTLY true, we’d all know it. Women would be accusing their men of affairs with men left and right not accusing them of cheating with women (all the time). eyeroll.
Brentinpdx
Judas Priest was the icon heavy metal band in the 80’s. While I agree with his statement about not coming out at that time. I think it would of shot the band to higher ground had he come out.
I loved JP when growing up… had he come out.. I don’t think it would of made any difference to me to anyone else.
Look at Twisted Sister… Dee Snyder dressed as a women. That band was a riot and got plenty of air play.