For those of you who hang upon the words of celebrities, it may be time to relax a little bit about Rose McGowan. The star of Charmed and Conan the Barbarian came under fire yesterday for a few unkind, thoughtless words, and now she’s apologized. Somewhat.
“I made a dumb generalization, for that I apologize,” she wrote today, but added, “For everything else I said, no. I will not.”
“Gay men are as misogynistic as straight men, if not more so,” she said. “You wanna talk about the fact that I have heard nobody in the gay community, no gay males, standing up for women on any level?”
Errrrr, well that may not be true. Plenty of gay men are concerned about feminism and gender equality. But we get her point: as a group, gay men aren’t super-vocal about women’s issues. It’s definitely a blind spot. She’s right. And to be fair, Rose has been an ally of LGBT equality in the past, so it’s not like she’s out to attack us for no reason.
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But then she said this, which is a little rude: “I see now people who have basically fought for the right to stand on top of a float wearing an orange Speedo and take molly.” Ouch.
And in her apology, she tells a story about how a gay friend of hers called Blanche from Golden Girls a slut, and then she yelled at him and corrected him, which just sounds annoying. Rose, please don’t attempt to goldsplain the show to us. It’s OK to call Blanche a slut. That’s not misogyny. That’s just being real.
jason smeds
Modern-day feminism is about obtaining privileges for women rather than equal rights. I don’t see why gay men should support a female movement whose aim is to obtain privileges over men, including gay men.
Women exploit double standards all the time. For example, why is it that women can wear trousers or dresses in public but men can only wear trousers? Women will generally not accept a boyfriend or husband who wears a dress in public whereas a man accepts his wife or girlfriend wearing trousers in public. Women created this double standard because it’s a form of privilege.
Don’t be fooled into supporting a woman’s rights movement that is based on the right of women to obtain privileges over all men, including gay men. That is NOT what equality is all about.
mcflyer54
Momma: “was that you Blanche? I thought Virginia was the slut.”
Blanche: “No momma, that was me. I’m the slut”.
Seems only fitting that if Blanche wore here “sluttiness” like a badge of honor we should respect and acknowledge the title she rightfully earned.
Cam
She said gays had pretty much gotten everything they want, she attacked people boycotting hotels owned by the Sultan of Brunei even though his country has legalized stoning of women, and legalized murder of gays and lesbians. She even held an event that the Beverly Hills Hotel, a Boycott Breaker.
When she first got some backlash about that she went on full attack against gays and lesbians, I think this one is the forth attempt at an apology? The first few were just more attacks.
As for gays and lesbians getting everything we want, could somebody remind me which states it is that don’t allow Rose McGowan to marry, or where she could legally be fired from her job? There aren’t any? Hmmmmm, how interesting.
Zodinsbrother
I have no time for her. There are plenty of LGBT people of all gender identities and sexualities that actively advocate for the rights of women AND men AND the poor.
Similarly there are feminists who fight for LGBT equality but there are also sections of the feminist movement who are virulently homophobic.
What she said was naked and plain homophobia. Here “apology” is completely devalued by here banging on about how she was right anyway in her prejudice.
Meanwhile, lets not forget that millions of gay men AND WOMEN in the world face the death penalty for just living.
Desert Boy
Don’t let Hollywood’s door hit you in your homophobic ass, Rose. You just committed career suicide.
Cam
If she thinks gays are so mean I have news for her. This is a gay site and they have been very kind. They didn’t go into the whole list of what she said, and they are using a very old glamour shot of her.
Queerty could have used a more recent post plastic surgery shot of her. You know, like this one.
http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/rose-mcgowan-about-alex-premiere-10__oPt.jpg
E T
Gay guys in speedos don’t take women’s rights away. This is just a mean rant.
VampDC
Look at her fighting sexism with homophobia. What a dumb twat.
I don’t call myself a feminist, mostly because I hate what its become in modern day.
AxelDC
@jason smeds: Feminism used to be about women proving they were equal to men, and in all but a few areas of life, they more or less are.
Modern feminists seem to think that man bashing is the most effective method of obtaining equality. Men are regularly portrayed as manchildren, only interested in sex, sports and sucking from a beer bottle instead of a baby bottle. This is regularly portrayed on sitcoms, commercials and romcoms.
McGowan takes this to the gay level. Here we have an actress best known for a show that no straight man would ever admit watching (for the record, I’ve seen every episode of Charmed at least twice), and she decides to crap on the only fanbase that cares she is even alive. She reduces gay men to stereotypes of drug-addled club kids parading nearly naked on the streets. Maybe she needs to get out of WeHo a bit and see how gay men her own age behave.
Kieran
Sorry, but I have no patience for a straight woman sitting self-righteously on her perch of heterosexual privilege having the gall to lecture gay men about “misogyny”.
McGowan also wrote on Twitter: “I’m speaking about MY experience as a disenfranchised activist.”
MY MY MY ME ME ME. That’s right Rose, it’s all about YOU. Poor, poor liitle “disenfranchised” Hollywood starlet YOU.
Meanwhile gay men face being disowned by their families, harassed by co-workers, fired from their jobs, thrown out of their apartments, beaten, shot or killed because of their sexual orientation every day of the week. Rose McGowan wouldn’t know “disenfranchised” if it sat down next to her in her limo.
demented
Sadly, she’s being proven right by this very site, including the insistence that misogyny doesn’t exist in today’s society (how coastal-urban-America of you), the emphasis on “gay men” (not just gays, but gay MEN) and the automatic dismissal of all modern-day feminists as having no real problems and just being man-haters. You can tell most, if not all, of the people posting are male.
Hell, it’s a sign of modern misogyny that female same-sex activity is more accepted than male. Why? Because even today (just look at Hollywood!) women’s sexuality is not seen as being “real” or “serious,” so it doesn’t matter what she does.
She was being very homophobic (especially the orange speedo comment), but she’s also correct to some degree. There ARE a large number of gay men who don’t appreciate or acknowledge women as real people, and are sometimes even disliking them strongly.
Kangol
Talk about somebody who’s lost all her charm…
Gothrykke
I’m sorry, but if you ‘correct’ someone for calling a slut a slut, you’ve just lost your membership card. Please reapply in six months during our next membership drive.
That’s how you handle something that freaking ridiculous. People can say what they want, they don’t need you playing mommy, Ms. McGowan.
Let me step onto my lectern: There is bigotry in everything, it’s the context, extent, and the intent that determines if we should do something about it, though. Something like this can be debated, but you can’t get all big about it. Being reactionary is what makes people hate you, no matter what your message or justification.
Am I misogynistic? Most certainly. Then again, we all are. It’s to what degree we let it influence us that matters. You can’t judge someone based upon this label when everyone falls under it. We cannot only be yea or nay on the feminism front, it’s more complicated than that.
I want a female leader because I believe a woman has been through enough to understand the hardship of being a minority and would be able to make informed decisions based upon this experience. I also don’t want to see a woman with body and facial hair. Both of those are forms of misogyny, both can be harmful.
Chris
Awwwwwwe….you poor thing…with a net worth of over $18 million, you’re being oppressed. Tell us groundlings how we can fix it.
Aranos
In todays world, the reality is this:
Straight men come in first place
Straight women come second
then only come all the LGBTs
Straight women are as much part of the oppressing heteronormative system as straight men are. And they make full use of they privileges over gay men. Towards us, they are predators. Women isolate us from all our straight and bisexual male friends because they are afraid of them loving us just as much as they love them. In that, they play an essential role in the system that leads to the isolation of gays from the rest of the society (which btw amongst others leads to those high suicide rates amongst us). And if there is something that straight women cannot stand, it’s someone else getting just AS MUCH as them. For a straight women to be happy, other must have LESS. So do not tell us about “equality” and double standards, girlfriend.
Cam
@demented: said… “Sadly, she’s being proven right by this very site,”
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This is SO reminiscent of the Mormons and members of NOM who would come in here and post “See, you gays want tolerance but you attack Maggie Gallagher, you aren’t tolerant to her!”
I’m sorry, but attacking McGowans comments and her for saying them is not even in the same ballpark as her reducing the entire reality of being gay to drug addicted go go boys on a float. Or I suppose you think that a lesbian or gay guy being attacked with baseball bats is just as bad as their attackers if they manage to push one of their attackers down.
Nice try.
jason smeds
Misogyny exists but so does misandry. Misandry is hatred of men, including gay men. Many women feel threatened by men because men have strength and speed. Men also have a genuine and compelling sexuality which women lack. Only men can achieve an orgasm which transports the sex cells from the inside of his body to the outside.
Women also feel threatened, not by isolated homosexuality in men but by mainstream homosexuality in men. What this means is that, so long as men who have sex with men are divided away from the main playground, she’s OK with it. However, once men who have sex with men enter the main playground and start competing with her for the attention of men, she’s against it. It takes away her power as a gender.
This is one of the main reasons why women are threatened by the existence of homosexual feelings in men who are also attracted to women. It explains the constant demonization of male bisexuality in Western societies such as the USA and Britain, a demonization which stands in stark contrast to the constant glamorization of female bisexuality.
This bisexual double standard is the dead giveaway. It’s the gold standard by which to measure females and their envy of men.
mmichael_24
Everyone has said something in their life life that they regretted. I still love you Rose.
Cam
@mmichael_24: said…”Everyone has said something in their life life that they regretted.”
__________________
Do those same people also hold boycott busting events at hotels owned by rules of countries that legalize the murder of gays and lesbians?
pressuredrop
I think, together, women and LGBTs could easily topple the established heteronormative patriarchy if we didn’t spend so much energy on the pissing contest over which of us is more oppressed.
And, let’s face it, this is a pissing contest that both sides are playing into.
Charlie in Charge
*Shrugs*
I never take anything said on Twitter very seriously.
Cam
@pressuredrop:
These “Blame the victim” posts are always so ridiculous. Yes, because gays and women have spent the last few decades doing NOTHING but snipping at each other. You know, it isn’t as if there have been multiple lawsuits to get marriage equality, the striking down of portions of DOMA, DADT, and continuous legal battles throughout the country, as well as fights to let women serve in combat, equal pay, and strengthening of abuse and rape laws.
Oh yeah, nobody’s been doing anything, both groups are just sitting around eating bon bons and bitching at each other and THAT’s why everything isn’t perfect in the world. (Eye Roll)
pressuredrop
@Cam:
I didn’t say that this was ALL anybody has been doing for the past thirty years. That’s a massive exaggeration of my point.
I would consider this article to show a problematic view that some straight women have towards gay men. This is not the first time I’ve heard this stance being taken.
On the opposite end, I’ve seen a lot of problematic things posted about women on this forum by gay men.
I’m not trying to ‘victim-blame’, because in this case, there’s a pretty clear oppressor and two victim groups. And, no, neither gay men nor women deserve to be marginalized. However, is it not possible for somebody to be both victim and oppressor?
And, furthermore, is it not possible that two victim groups have the potential to oppress each other through the veiled context of social discourse?
I know the history of DADT, DOMA, etc. Your history lesson does nothing to change my point, which is that attitudes like Rose McGowan’s fall to the advantage of straight men in every way.
ppp111
@jason smeds:
Jason, you bring up some valid points but I have to call you out on a few things. First of all, straight men are in charge of who practically gets acceptance into mainstream, not women especially straight women. Secondly, I agree that while female bisexuality is celebrated, not all would be. Do you really think Rosie O’Donnell or Ellen Degeneres would get that kind of praise? Heck no, they’d be treated as if they were gay men. Rosie O’Donnell got nothing but hate from almost every straight guy after her spat with Elisabeth Hasselbeck. Female bisexuality has always been based on how the woman looks. Not every bisexual woman looks like Anna Paquin or Fergie from the Black Eyed Peas. Believe me, a lesbian or bisexual woman who isn’t considered attractive by the mainstream media might as well be a gay man for they care.
Cam
@pressuredrop: You said “women and LGBTs could easily topple the established heteronormative patriarchy if we didn’t spend so much energy on the pissing contest over which of us is more oppressed.”
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In other words, it would be toppled, BUT FOR these two groups’s actions which apparently are spending all their energy in a pissing contest.
That is absolutely blaming the victim. Your response post tried to change the tone of what you said. If you feel that you wrote it incorrectly in the first time, fine, just say that. But you said what you said, which was, it is LGBT’s and women’s fault that things are business as usual because we waste all that energy snipping at each other.
Don’t get mad at me for responding to your actual wordint.
pressuredrop
I didn’t say it WOULD BE toppled, I said it could be. As in, in the future.
You keep putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say that all of our energy was used on that one thing. This isn’t just about blatant actions, but also about a complicated web of subtle attitudes that appear across our society.
Do you actually know what victim-blaming is? Victim-blaming implies that the victim is doing something with the active knowledge that they are facilitating their own marginalization. (i.e. ‘she deserved to be raped because she wore that mini-skirt.’) I don’t think straight women or gay men actively seek to make themselves the victims when they attack each other. I think it’s a counter-productive situation that furthers our collective marginalization, but I realize that this is concurrent to active gay rights and feminist movements that are not simply sitting on their asses.
I’m not mad that you responded to my ‘wording’, just a bit surprised by the pettiness, since we both essentially agree that the marginalization of both groups is bad.
Cam
@pressuredrop:
Once again, you can get bogged down in semantics, but once again, you ignore all the progress gay rights has made, you ignore all of the changes in the status of women over the last few decades, but again, you put blame on those two groups for the reason things are the way they are an insinuated that it was these groups inaction that caused it.
May I remind you that before the fight for marriage the gay community was involved in a decades long catastrophe in which huge numbers were being felled by AIDS. Then while that is still an issue, groups moved to fight the other issues I mentioned and are still fighting for ENDA and marriage….but no, according to you apparently huge amounts of energy are being used to snipe at women.
Perhaps the real question should be, why are members of these groups so self hating that some members of them can’t wait to jump up in agreement with any statement that seeks to degrade them.
pressuredrop
@Cam:
What, you can get bogged down in semantics until it no longer suits you?
I didn’t ignore any of those things. In fact, I directly acknowledged the progress that gay rights AND feminist groups have made.
You keep repeating the same things that I didn’t say and have openly refuted… So I don’t see this discussion going anywhere until you put the straw men away.
Cam
@pressuredrop:
When I cut and paste your exact language it isn’t “repeating the same things that you didn’t say”.
Once again, you laid blame, you were called out and now you are backing away from your original statement. That is fine, but please don’t try to pretend that isn’t what you said. You said it, if you do not now agree with your original statement fine, but at least be honest about it.
Cam
And another picture to remind people of just how much of a NON-feminist icon McGowan was before her issues with plastic surgery and aging. She bought into the whole hollywood Pam Anderson thing back when it worked for her.
http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/rose_mcgowan_1998_mtv_awards_manson_date_see_through.jpg
jason smeds
Women cooperate with the patriarchy – that is the real problem. A few women might not but, by and large, it is in the interests of women to cooperate with the patriarchy. The patriarchy brings them rewards – eg money, lavish lifestyles, a child to bear….
The women I truly admire are those who do not cooperate with the patriarchy. These are the women who cut their hair very short and who wear clothing that distinguishes itself from the types of glamorous dresses promoted by the patriarchy and its female enablers.
TomMc
What do women have to do with feminism?
Saint Law
@jason smeds: “Men also have a genuine and compelling sexuality which women lack. Only men can achieve an orgasm which transports the sex cells from the inside of his body to the outside.”
Your effusions continue to read like the burble of some decayed old virgin whose understanding of adult sexuality is entirely theoretical. And wrong.
HockeyGuy
Jason, your comments are among the most intelligent and insightful in response to this article about this ridiculous bigot of a woman. Of course, no one mentions the inverse: lesbian hatred of men. Misandry permeates our culture; it’s institutionalized in schools, colleges, the media…and sadly in the gay “community” that has always sided with feminist dogma and “separated” men from one another. My best non-gay friends aren’t “straight girls,” but the straight guys I play hockey with every week. They’re fun…I love them. It’s interesting to hear them talk about how they’ve been treated by their wives/girlfriends…and how much they’re controlled by them. I don’t sense any real “privilege” among these guys. Feminists like to purport that every white man is a CEO. Hardly. Most men don’t have any power over anyone.
Saint Law
@HockeyGuy: Your jealousy is unseemly. Those wives are not to blame for the fact their husbands will never ever have sex with you, you pewling inadequate.
HockeyGuy
Clearly you have no idea what men talk about when women aren’t around.