“It’s easier doing those scenes with another gay man than it is a straight man. The same way I feel fine doing sex scenes with a woman.
When I’m doing a sex scene with an actor who is straight, I feel a huge sense of responsibility not to feel like I’m taking advantage or anything.
Like, I’ll only touch their balls if it says so in the script.
I keep the bush low, trim the chest hair and I like to get the nipples more erect, so I’ll tweak them a bit too.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Erect nipples add so much to a scene I think.
I do worry about how I’m going to look in screen-grabs and GIFS. You know it’s going to happen.”
— Russell Tovey to Heat on his super masc approach to filming sex scenes.
KM201
Please stop posting about Russell. After his non-apology for his “I’m glad I’m not fem” comments, he deserves to be blackballed by the gay press.
odawg
Yawn!
Xzamilio
No, he doesn’t deserve to be blackballed. I find it odd how he can put a face on the masc/fem insecurity in the gay community and he is lampooned for it… meanwhile, most of us have no problem saying so and so is gay because of the way they act, or carry themselves. Hell, the last Davey Wavey video, how many of the comments were talking about the straight guy in the video “looking” gay? Or the subtle/obvious digs at Colton Haynes’ sexual orientation? Please, don’t with the hypocrisy. Spread that shit evenly across the board… either masc/fem traits don’t matter, or they do… either the way someone carries themselves doesn’t define their sexual orientation or it does. You can’t have it both ways and try to maintain consistency.
da90027
Never heard of him who is he?
SteveDenver
@da90027: You don’t know Russell? Don’t worry, nobody expects you to know anything.
Bring it on Tovey! By the way: he’s flippin’ awesome in BANISHED!
Milk
@da90027: Don’t worry. If he is relevant , you will hear from him again.
robho3
He’s a douche- don’t care what he has to say about anything. You can lump him together with Madonna.
Arcamenel
@Xzamilio: Speculating if someone is gay based on mannerisms is one thing. Saying you are a better actor because you aren’t a fem gay man, implying that being fem is a bad thing, is another. I don’t know how you drew the conclusion you did in your comment but that is the definition of a reach.
Xzamilio
@Arcamenel: Speculating? Is that the cute way you try to put calling someone a liar and constantly implying their sexuality is something different from what they claim? So why do you think individuals like Tovey run from the “mannerisms” that are apparently only present in gay men? Play stupid all you want, but perceived masculinity is something that is coveted in the mainstream gay community, and as soon as someone comes along and reminds us of that, it becomes too real. And I say “perceived” because masculinity is definitely in the eye of the beholder. There is plenty of room on this site for Russell Tovey and every other gay man that ruffles some feathers.
So call it a reach all you want… it’s easy to do that when you look at the surface and the not the point of the comparison. You don’t get to get mad at one guy for using anti-fem sentiments and then turn around and use those same stereotypes that guy just denigrated to label another guy as gay. And we do it all the time… so don’t even try it.
Alan down in Florida
@Arcamenel: No matter what your stand on butch v. femme the fact remains that for ACTORS the standard for masculinity remains butch except for those roles written specifically for the femme stereotype.
Take Chris Colfer After Glee ends tonight how many acting offers do you think will be waiting for him? Smart man that he is he has diversified into writing screenplays, children’s books and become a producer developing his own material. The same goes for the very talented Julliard grad Michael Urie – also developing a career off stage and behind the camera.
The fact that Russell Tovey is more butch will make him available for a long successful acting career playing both gay and straight (acting) roles.
And that’s the fact Jack.
Realitycheck
Ditto da90027, never heard of the guy.
About the fem comment, truth is, most guys like masculine over feminine, especially the fems.
Flame proof suit on!
AlexM123
@Arcamenel: He did not say that he was a better actor for being butch/masculine. He said that because he isn’t really effeminate, it is easier for him to portray straight characters and he will have more acting roles, which is just the truth. It’s interesting that the only people I see STILL complaining about him are the Chris Colfers of the gay community.
The saddest thing is that what he said doesn’t actually matter too much. I remember when Sean Hayes was still in the closet and played straight roles. He did a damn good job and really made me wonder “is he straight or not?” His comment is only something to be offended about if you see yourself as a weak effeminate gay man.
DarkZephyr
@Alan down in Florida: this is sadly true, but it doesn’t make what Tovey said any nicer or kinder to his feminine gay brothers. He contributes to the problem.
What you said is correct. Its a sad sad truth and one that helps lead to bullying and contributes to a suicide culture in many of our gay male youth (and that’s a fact, Jack). We should be trying to put a stop to it rather than making excuses for it or defending it as far as I am concerned.
DarkZephyr
@Realitycheck: Its one thing to have a preference, but what you just said here:
“Flame proof suit on!”
That is an abysmal thing to say.
@AlexM123:
“It’s interesting that the only people I see STILL complaining about him are the Chris Colfers of the gay community.”
What does this even mean? Who are the “Chris Colfers” of the gay community?
“His comment is only something to be offended about if you see yourself as a weak effeminate gay man.”
What makes you think that a man who sees himself as effeminate must also see himself as weak? What does weakness even have to do with effeminacy? What does it have to do this discussion at all? Do you see effeminate gay men as “weak”? Please explain.
kansasteddybear
what I could never figure out is, if it is ok for someone to feel proud of being fem and celebrating who they are, what is wrong for this guy to be happy and proud of who he is? aren’t we all supposed to feel that way about ourselves?
DarkZephyr
@kansasteddybear: While there is nothing wrong with being proud of who you are, masculine or feminine, (though I personally think that we have a lot more to celebrate as a collective community than how our personal mannerisms are) I think the answer to your question is simple. People bristle at his words for the same reason they bristle when someone suggests that there should be “white pride” or “White History Month” or “Straight Pride”. I think that any feminine gay men who celebrate their femininity and state how proud they are of it are doing so in the face of negative treatment from straights as well as their masculine gay brothers in the same way we gays have pride in the face of homophobia and other castigated groups take pride in who they are in the face of ill treatment. If you would observe the words of Alan down in Florida, Realitycheck and AlexM123 as well as other posters here, you might be able to take note of the fact that masculinity is treasured in the gay community and in Hollywood and feminine gay men are perceived as weak and something to shield yourself from at all costs. To me there doesn’t seem to be any real *need* for “Masc pride” but I can definitely see a need for “Fem pride” and frankly I hope to see a whole lot more of it just so long as feminine gay men can show their pride without denigrating their masculine gay brothers.
To further analyze why people bristle at his words I think we can also attribute some of the anger to what words he chose to use. It’s one thing to say “I am so proud of being masculine (and for the reasons I gave above even that is questionable).” But its something else entirely to say “I am glad that I am not feminine!” That is when it becomes outright insulting.
There are masculine gay men who do *not* have a problem with feminine gay men whatsoever and feel no need to put on “flame proof suits” and some of them even prefer to date feminine gay men (and some even manage to pursue this preference without insulting those they are not interested in). These kinds of masculine gay men will stand by their feminine gay brothers. Whether they want to date them or not. Personally I think we should all stand by each other as brothers regardless of who we want to date. Being brothers and lovers are two different things after all.
Milk
@Alan down in Florida: @Alan down in Florida: Long successful career? This is a film industry. Very few actually have a very long successful career. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed. His acting skills is nothing to write home about. He barely cross over to Hollywood with a minor role in a minor tv show that may or may not be renew. Let’s not read the tea leaves too early on his longevity of a career. See Sean Hayes, Chris Colfer, Zachary Quinto? These are the smart one who go behind the scenes creating another career path for themselves. Brain versus brawn, brain always win.
jar
@Xzamilio: Your analogy does not hold water.
“You don’t get to get mad at one guy for using anti-fem sentiments and then turn around and use those same stereotypes that guy just denigrated to label another guy as gay.” The only way these two items are comparable is if you believe it is hostile to intuit/speculate that someone is gay on the basis of mannerisms. Personally, my gaydar is not based on mannerisms, but a complete read of the person. If it’s based solely on mannerisms then only “effeminate” gay men (by your analysis) would ever be perceived as gay. Surely, you recognize that this is not the case.
You do, perhaps unwittingly, expose the fact that you see perceiving closeted men as gay to be some form of denigration. Otherwise, your analogy would not work. I don’t agree with your apparent anxiety. There is nothing hostile about perceiving someone as gay.
For some other commenters, Tovey’s statement wasn’t about getting roles, but thanking his father for not letting him become the nelly queen he could have. That’s the problem with his statement.
dhmonarch89
Like, I’ll only touch their balls if it says so in the script….and if they are not effeminant!
Xzamilio
@jar: Spare me the pseudo-intellectual jargon and get to the point. First of all, “gaydar” is made up nonsense that can be categorized as a combination of body language and wishful thinking. Second, do not insult my intelligence by pretending that it is mere “speculation”… we ALL do it, and we do it vehemently, even when the other party has reiterated that they are not gay. It’s done with Travolta, it’s done with Kevin Spacey, it’s done with Cotlton Haynes (pretty much the cute white ones that can’t keep a girlfriend and have that “look”), and we do it with anyone who shows even the tiniest bit of a gay-friendly vibe. You don’t “read” anyone, because you can’t… unless you’re a freaking sorcerer or an empath, your “reading” is BS.
It’s a logical comparison. What was the basis for Schock being gay? His flamboyant style and knack for bright colors, his love of Katy Perry, his chiseled hot body and lack of women around him, and yet to this day, we ignore him saying he’s not gay and continue to… “Speculate.” And I do it, too, but at least I’m self-aware of my own hypocrisy in certain areas.
Xzamilio
@jar: And he never said “nelly queen” about anyone. I really do hate defending ignorant people by going after those who are being melodramatic, but seriously… his words have a layer of truth behind them that none here are willing to admit, and I say that while being in total disagreement with him about taking in pride in masculinity as being superior to femininity. Frankly, it’s the feminine gay men that are the really brave ones, as they can say “F*ck you, society” and carry their heads high. But, don’t you sit there and act like the same stereotypes of gay men that we would be up in arms about if some homophobe said them to us are not the same ones WE use to say if someone is gay. All you have to do is look through this very site and see what I am talking about… play dumb with someone else.
KJA
Russell Tovey is ugly as fuck and what is up with those ears? Fly away little birdie, fly away.
Mike G
@DarkZephyr: Huh? Overreacting much? You do know that Internet posts attacking someone have been called “flames” for like the last 30 years? And that saying you’re donning your flameproof suit means you’re expecting people to attack you for your stated opinion? Right?
Daveliam
I can’t with the melodramatics on this site. I don’t agree with any sentiment that denigrates feminine gay men, but I also can’t stand the vicious, nasty sentiment that the posters and editors here continue to throw at Tovey. You are all no better than you think he is and if you can’t see that, then you are delusional. It’s really sad that our community turns on itself so easily.
DarkZephyr
@Mike G: Well if that is the case then yes I did overreact to his words and will gladly apologize to him, I make mistakes all the time and when this is pointed out to me, I am not afraid to acknowledge it. Not that the words that he said before them were that great. But perhaps you could see why I interpreted it that way. Feminine gay men have been called “flaming” for a bit longer than 30 years.
DarkZephyr
@Daveliam: his words can be acknowledged as problematic without it being a vicious attack on his person, but I do agree with you to an extent in general. Pointing out how ugly his ears are for instance has nothing to do with the harmful anti-fem sentiment that he perpetuates.
Billy Budd
I was an anti-fem guy for a long time. Now I just don’t care. I will accept the weirdest things as normal. Nothing surprises me anymore, nothing shocks me or irritates me about sexual behavior. As long as the fetishes are not too radical.
toronto
He can say what he wants. I still want to grab him by those ears and …..
DarkZephyr
@Billy Budd: Well its great that you have reconsidered your position on feminine gay men.
JJinAus
I see the screaming butthurt bitches are still clicking on Russell stories and pretending they don’t know who he is. Seriously girls, get a life. So sorry he has hurt your delicate feelings. Why don’t you all get together and be vexed in some sort of support group.
He is a positive out gay actor who is making a name for himself, and you? What are you? Take your umbrage and shove it.
not a clone
Remember guys, there are a variety of marbles in the bag, not just the ones you find acceptable. We all have friends or know another gay that think like him, a condition of his up bringing and also the gay community to “bottom shame” , “queen shame”,
Giancarlo85
@JJinAus: *yawn*
Tovey is yesterday’s news. So when is Tovey going to be a main protagionist in a film? When was the last time he had a big role in a movie? History Boys? That was 7 years ago.
How is he a positive role model? For whom? What has he said that is so wonderful? He seems a bit dumb. I think most people should just ignore him… and I don’t see his career going well right now. His looks have gone downhill the last 2 or 3 years.
And his comments about fem guys speaks more about his own insecurities. The guy has some serious issues.
hudson
@DarkZephyr: I think that you misunderstood Reality Check’s comment about flame proof suits. I think he was referring to seeking figurative protection from being flamed on here for his comment, not that he was seeking protection from the flaming fems.
BTW, I enjoy reading your comments- always reasoned, even handed and thoughtful, imho
hudson
@DarkZephyr: and his ears? freaking sexy as all hell! Thank gawd we’re not all attracted to the same looks.
Chris
This really is a very campy interview as in “…..I’ll only touch their balls if it says so in the script.” Really, what script does it say that in? It was probably written by Balzac, eh?
DarkZephyr
@hudson: Thank you very much Hudson. 🙂 You and Mike G are probably correct that I misunderstood that last bit of Realitycheck’s post.
seaguy
@KM201: stop being such a drama queen.
Tombear
I guess I’m an abnormal gay man? Fem gay men make me vomit! A big hairy man who is fit and has a low voice makes my dick hard!
Saint Law
@Tombear: Fem gay men really make you vomit?
Like, they actually cause you to gag and eject the contents of your last meal? You see a girlish looking boy and you spontaneously puke?
Really?
Somebody is overcompensating.
DarkZephyr
@Tombear: Yes, you are pretty abnormal if seeing a human being that you don’t happen to be attracted to makes you vomit. There is nothing normal about that whatsoever and you probably need to see a special doctor. I don’t vomit at the sight of women or gay men that I am not attracted to. In fact I have a lot of female friends as well as gay male friends of types that I am not physically attracted to. And the fact that you felt compelled to actually give voice (so to speak) to that hateful side of yourself doesn’t just make you abnormal, it makes you a douche. Any big hairy sexy muscle bear worth his salt would turn you down in a NY minute, wanting NOTHING to do with a steaming pile of hate like you.
Clark35
Yeah like in 2015 people actually still believe the BS myth that hetero/straight guys do gay porn LOL it’s queerty’s obsession with closeted bi/gay men yet again.
Clark35
this guy should mention how before he does porns how he uses drugs as pretty much all people who do porn do this.
Clark35
@AlexM123: He’s obviously bisexual. Plus the guys who complain about queens the most are usually the biggest queens ever behind closed doors during sex. Being in a porn is not when they show this.
DarkZephyr
@Clark35: is it possible that you are commenting under the wrong article?
Paco
@Saint Law:
@DarkZephyr:
I think Tombear needs to start practicing his masc4masc routine on camera instead of in the mirror. Video never lies.
@Tombear: What a drama queen you must be.
maximillon
He is hot he can say anything he wants in my book.
Kieru
In the interview Tovey paraphrased his father, who refused to let him (Rusell) go to art school for fear he would turn into a dancing nancy boy. Ugly words; but not Russell Tovey’s words… yet he’s being criticized as though they were. He also said that his fathers decision forced him to ‘toughen up’ in public school.
Shocker; who among us hasn’t felt the need to ‘toughen up’ in public school?
And in hindsight, he’s thankful for public school even though it was not what he wanted at the time; because having to act a certain way in public school has afforded him access to playing roles that he feels he otherwise would not have acquired. I’m not sure why any of us is offended by that… it would be like being offended if Sean Hayes wasn’t cast for a role asking for a ‘tough acting, macho, burly man”.
Sometimes I think the LGBT community just WANTS internal drama. Reading that interview and leaving with the concept that Tovey is a self-loathing homophobe who hates effeminate men? You have to really be looking for a reason to bitch to leave with that interpretation.
Giancarlo85
@Tombear: Overcompensating indeed. I’m a fem gay guy… now go throw up! LOL.
I respect if you like hairy “manly” guys. That’s totally cool. Masc4Masc lmao.
Well I’m fem4fem!
Kieru, he endorsed the fact that his father didn’t let him go down that road. He was happy he didn’t go and becoming a dancing “nancy boy”. Yes, those were Russel Tovey’s words endorsing what his father did.
And by the way, he doesn’t seem that “tough”. I’ve seen fem guys more tough than him. I went to public school, yet I’m still fem lmao.
Tovey is a dumb guy with not much brain power… plus he’s a one dimensional actor. He’ll be a non-factor in a few years.
Clark35
@DarkZephyr: Nope. This guy is a flash in the pan, guy in porn that they’ll soon replace with another bi or gay guy who believes the myth that if you do porn you make lots of money but the porn industry has been doing this for decades.
DarkZephyr
@Clark35: This article isn’t about a porn star. Its about Russel Tovey, an actor on TV and film who is currently on the TV show “Looking”.
stanhope
@KM201: I completely agree. I have no interest in him…don’t think he’s particularly attractive and his character as well as he in real life are not worthy of notice.
DarkZephyr
It really strikes me how so many gay guys that self identify as “masc” seem to think that masculinity and insensitive douche-baggery are synonymous. A TRULY masculine gay guy does NOT need to put his feminine brothers down or talk about how disgusted by them he is. The moment you hold yourself above your feminine gay brothers is the moment you reveal that you are not authentically masculine and are just putting on a front. That is my firm belief.
JJinAus
@stanhope: So sorry, I didn’t realise that he had actually asked you out.
JJinAus
@Giancarlo85: When are you?
JJinAus
@Giancarlo85: Oh, and sorry to rattle your insular little world, but he CURRENTLY is one of the leads in a big BBC drama. Link below. Not my cup of tea, but your point is invalid:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3508050/
DarkZephyr
@JJinAus: With all due respect, the two points that I saw Giancarlo make were these:
1) Tovey endorsed his father’s feminine shaming.
2) Tovey is a one dimensional actor.
I don’t personally believe that either of these points are rendered invalid by the fact that Tovey is big on the BBC.
I believe that he did most certainly endorse his father’s fem shaming view point and even seems to share it. As for his acting, I have never watched him act so I have no idea how one dimensional he is or isn’t. Perhaps he is amazingly talented, perhaps he is not, but I don’t think being in a big drama necessarily means that he is not one dimensional as an actor.
DarkZephyr
@JJinAus: “He is a positive out gay actor who is making a name for himself, and you? What are you? Take your umbrage and shove it.”
The whole attitude behind the “and you? What are you?” type of questioning always struck me as kind of paradoxical. In this case who is Tovey making a name for himself with? The public. The very people that you seem to be ridiculing with this type of question. If the “who are yous” of the world didn’t exist he would have nobody to “make a name for himself” with, don’t you agree?
There has to be an audience and a target market for him to be able to make it. He won’t be a success if he ONLY appeals to gay men who hate their feminine gay brothers. That is not even close to NEARLY enough people. He has to be appealing to a much larger audience.
By making statements like the one that he did and then choosing a rather poor apology he does himself no favors and he has deeply hurt many among the large number of feminine gay men who were possibly some of his greatest fans.
Sure, he has die hards like yourself who love to express their contempt for their feminine gay brothers, but as I said, you aren’t enough to carry him to success. And ironically, your continued endorsement of him as it exists accompanied by such expressions of contempt for your feminine brethren doesn’t help him out at all. It further associates him with that element that has long been harsh and cruel to feminine gay men and if Tovey’s apology as it exists is to be believed at all, he wants to distance himself from this kind of attitude and doesn’t REALLY hold it. The very attitude that you continue to perpetuate and associate him with. Its actually kind of ironic. You are hurting him in your effort to defend him and what’s more are doing so in a way that he himself wants nothing to do with, if his own words are to be believed.
For my part, I would love to see him better clarify himself. If he could do that while expressing *respect* for his feminine gay brothers I think all could easily be forgiven. But I DO think that a statement needs to be made. Defenses like yours serve to further cement in the minds of feminine gay men and their supporters that Tovey IS Anti-Fem. I would LOVE to believe that the opposite was actually the case.
Giancarlo85
@JJinAus: I was talking about blockbuster movies. Not a television series people will watch only in one country. My point is extreme valid. Seems to me Tovey has sway mostly in one country and not much outside that country (UK).
Jin, you can insult me all you want. But the reality is that being “big” on the BBC isn’t being big at all. And how is he a good role model for gay people when he insults an entire group of people? A one dimensional blockhead who is totally insecure and insincere.
IvanPH
I have always loved this guy even before he joined Looking. He was terrific on these great shows: Being Human, Him & Her and The Job Lot. He is currently starring in Banished, another brilliant program. A talented actor who the LGBT community should be proud of.
Haters gonna hate. Tovey and his fans & admirers couldn’t care less.
Giancarlo85
Why should we be proud of him when he’s starring in some shows that nobody outside the UK knows about? Never seen any of those shows, and can’t recall if I ever seen them on US television.
Haters gonna hate blah blah blah…
He’s a one dimensional actor, and why should the LGBT community be proud of him? Should we proud of Schock too?
DarkZephyr
@IvanPH: This isn’t a “haters gonna hate” thing. There is a legitimate complaint about something that he said carelessly. And that is me giving him the benefit of the doubt. Worst case scenario is that he meant it exactly as he said it. I would be a lot prouder of him as an LGBT actor if he was nicer to his own people.
Kieru
@DarkZephyr: See this is where I get confused. No where in his interview did Tovey profess any disdain for effeminate men. There were two areas in the article where he discussed masculinity in any capacity.
When quoting his fathers reasons for not allowing him to attend the dance/music school, he mentioned his father was afraid he would become some “tapdancing freak without qualifications”. That’s Russell paraphrasing his father, not Russell professing his own opinions.
Later on in discussing his capacity as an actor he credits his father’s choice with why he’s able to acquire straight roles. There is some language in this dialogue that COULD be construed as negative (prance around, sing in the street… but then again it is a dancing/music school so… there really is prancing and singing) … but all he’s really doing is acknowledging that the path he was given has lead him to the career he has now; a career he likes.
Nowhere in the interview did he say anything along the lines of feminine men being ‘lesser’ or less of a man than a masculine man, etc, etc. I think this really is a case of an actor perhaps using less-than-precise language, and then sensitive people looking for a reason to be outraged finding a reason, weak though that reason is.
DarkZephyr
@Kieru: What he said:
“I feel like I could have been really effeminate, if I hadn’t gone to the school I went to. … where I felt like I had to toughen up.
‘If I’d have been able to relax, prance around, sing in the street, I might be a different person now. I thank my dad for that, for not allowing me to go down that path.”
This is very clear cut and there is nothing confusing about it. He is grateful to his Dad that he is not “really effeminate”. Point blank period.
JJinAus
@Giancarlo85: Typical American. If someone is not a big actor in a blockbuster – like say Stallone – then they are worthless.
JJinAus
@DarkZephyr: Thanks for the strawman lecture.
You are ascribing things to me which are just not true. I am not a particular fan of Tovey, nor do I dislike him. I’d shag him given the chance, but so what?
I am just sick and tired of these tragic queens who sit monitoring these forums and all they do is screen every utterance for implied slights and jump up and down because someone has the effrontery to not stick to some queer PC position that – as far as I can tell – none of us actually have a say in.
So, some famous person has the temerity to say something, even an off hand comment without thinking and then suddenly the hatred and bile are let loose and they are NEVER forgiven. It’s ridiculous.
I am butch, my partner is butch, I don’t care less what you think of me. I don’t find fems attractive, nor indeed hairless gym bunnies, but so what? I doubt they’d find this lightly haired fat 50 something attractive so who cares?
Giancarlo85
@Kieru: Re-read it. His approval of his dad’s comments shows that he does have clear disdain for effeminate gay men. Dark already reposted it for you to look at.
Giancarlo85
@JJinAus: Here we go again… Tovey is not a big name outside the UK. And do you know where I’m from? Colombia. And just because he’s famous in the UK doesn’t mean he’s famous anywhere else. He really isn’t.
Jin, you’re more of a queen than fem gay men beacuse all you do is complain. I find it funny some will sit on here and defend some second rate actor who made some stupid comments.
I don’t care about you or your partner. So that comment was totally irrelevant.
Giancarlo85
@JJinAus: Stallone by the way had several major films… I mean… was Rocky or Rambo not major blockbusters? Very poor comparison by the way.
Tovey hasn’t even begun to come close to what Stallone achieved with Rocky.
martinbakman
@KM201: Wasn’t his point about how flamboyant he behaves? Being a feminine man is somewhat a separate issue.
DarkZephyr
@JJinAus: this has nothing to do with attraction. I don’t care who you are attracted to or who isn’t attracted to you. But If they body shamed you for being fat, they’d be douche bags for doing it. It’s great that you have a partner. I hope you two remain happy for the rest of your lives. That isn’t what this is about however.
Tovey said something that is massively problematic. I don’t know why you can’t see that, but it’s not about fragile egos. It’s much bigger than that.
Now you are tired of “queens” (I am surprised a butch man would use that term as its not the butchest of terms to use) who you seem to see as oversensitive. Am I correct in that understanding of your words? If you feel that they are so oversensitive for letting his words bother them…why do you let their sensitivity bother you? Why not just ignore it and move on with your life rather than letting it tax you so much? Aren’t you in a way behaving in a similar manner?
DarkZephyr
@martinbakman: the words he used were “really effeminate”. So it was about male femininity specifically.
martinbakman
@JJinAus: @JJinAus: I’m an American and I have loved Tovey since I first saw him in Dr. Who Voyage of the Damned.
There are a lot of hurt feelings out there about his comments. Yet, I can’t argue with the facts. If a man is super flamboyant in his demeanor, that probably has a negative effect on whether he will be seriously considered for certain roles. Whether that is unfair is beside the point when that is the reality of the business.
Tovey gets a lot of work and he thanked his father for that advantage.
I’m still not sure why he brought it up at all and sometimes wonder if this was a minor publicity stunt to help turn more heads towards HBO’s Looking. It’s a good show, by the way.
martinbakman
@DarkZephyr: Understood, but we don’t have much choice about how effeminate we are, as much as how flamboyant we care to act. And that goes for men AND women. Some folks seem to act like they’re on stage 24/7, and seem to covet attention with their ongoing remarks and mannerisms. A physically effeminate man, can be very, stoic and lovely, while a physically masculine man can be as flamboyant as Charles Nelson Riley. Don’t hate me for knowing which one I’d rather spend time with.
martinbakman
@DarkZephyr: I also recall he used the words “prancing about”. Anyway, I’m more interested in a serious minded fellow than a flamboyant one, no matter how masculine and hunky a body the flamboyant one is blessed with.
DarkZephyr
@martinbakman: I never stated that I hated you for any reason, Martin.
He did say “prancing about”. And he was equating that with effeminacy. Those were his words. If someone wants to be flamboyant, that is there business and its your business whether or not you want to chill with someone like that. But with all due respect, that is not what the issue is.
What I wish is that those of you who lean towards defending his poor choice of words could understand that this goes so very far beyond “hurt feelings”. Yes, hurt feelings are a part of it. But that is not why I am so passionate about this.
I am sure that there were several score of feminine gay men and even flamboyant ones who had been big time fans of his who felt personally slighted by his words and perhaps the wind even got knocked out of the sails of their fandom. And I don’t really blame them if it did. They have a right to take umbrage with his words and to feel hurt by words that *were* pretty damned hurtful. He simply didn’t have to word it that way. If he had said “I am grateful to my father that his choice of schools for me helped to toughen me up” who could be pissed off about that? Nobody that I can think of. He didn’t have to equate effeminacy with a lack of toughness (and this is in addition to declaring his gratitude that he avoided being effeminate). Effeminate gay men are counted among some of the toughest men that I know and that is a fact. You HAVE to be tough when you are a frequent target of bullies at school and the CONSTANT scorn of your masculine or “butch” gay brothers, don’t you think?
And this brings me to what I mean when I say that it goes beyond “hurt feelings”. What is going on here is that Tovey is perpetuating a dangerous climate for our LGBT youth. With his words he has contributed to a culture of bullying and self harm (possibly even suicide). When you are a man in his position and you make no bones about being ever so grateful that you are NOT effeminate, how do you think that makes effeminate gay boys feel? And how do you think that makes masculine gay boys feel ABOUT their feminine gay brothers? Please try to stop and think about that for a moment and maybe then you can understand where my passion about this comes from and WHY I think its important for him to clarify. Its NOT that he can never be forgiven, its that he has to do something to fix what he has done so that he CAN be forgiven. His non-apology offered no clarification or solace to those effeminate gay youths that may have been damaged by his words or to those masculine gay youths that might take his words to heart and learn contempt for their feminine gay brothers . This is a cycle that has got to be stopped. And its got to stop with masculine gay men and those who do not identify as feminine. We are the ones who can say “Wow, I do not like how my feminine brethren get treated, I choose to stand with them and support then regardless of whether or not I am attracted to them”. Don’t you think that deciding who we have respect for in this community based on who makes our dicks hard is something that leaves a lot to be desired in the nobility department?
“Anyway, I’m more interested in a serious minded fellow than a flamboyant one, no matter how masculine and hunky a body the flamboyant one is blessed with.”
As for this, I am not sure how you define “flamboyance”. All I can really say to that is to each their own, I wish you luck and for my part the content of a man’s character is what I look at after I am done drooling over cuteness. I have been attracted to masculine men, feminine men and FABULOUS glittery showy men. Because they have all struck me at the time as being GOOD men.
Giancarlo85
@martinbakman: Oh he gets a lot of work? With what exactly? Tv shows only popular in one country? I can name a gay actor who isnt masculine and is way more succesSful than Tovey. Neil Patrick Harris.
And flamboyant gay man isn’t serious minded? Wow, you’re about as ignorant as Tovey.
Giancarlo85
@martinbakman: Tovey gets casted for second rate shows mostly. When was the last time he had a main role? He is already 33… In a couple of years he will be on some late night exercise bike commercial. His career will take a huge dent with these comments.
Femininity doesn’t damage career prospects. Stupidity does though and Tovey is going to learn that real fast.
IvanPH
@Giancarlo85: So you should only be proud of an actor if he has shows outside the UK? How incredibly shallow, narrow-minded and foolish. Typical braindead philistine.
IvanPH
@Kieru: Quite right. His haters try to twist and his words and give a different meaning to what he said. He is merely pointing out how being masculine helps him get or win straight roles even if he is gay in real life. Straight roles are never offered to flamboyant effeminate gay actors. An undeniable fact.
Kieru
@Giancarlo85: Except he didn’t approve his fathers comments. He said he is thankful for his father not letting him go down that path, and then goes on to talk about how the path he DID go on lead him to the acting career he has today.
It’s called context. You’re purposefully choosing to ignore all the context of the article AFTER he admits that his fathers role in where he went to school had a profound effect on his current life. He likes his current acting career and recognizes that if he had continued down the path he ORIGINALLY saw for himself (before his father intervened) that he wouldn’t have this career.
That’s not the same thing as sharing his fathers anti-feminine viewpoints or condoning his fathers choices as applicable for other people.
Giancarlo85
@Kieru: Except he clearly did. Read it again. He was thankful for his father (this is approval). And what path is this?
Context? Apparently something you don’t quite grasp. I read the interview in its entirety. You clearly did not.
And yes, he clearly did show disdain towards effeminate traits. You need to learn how to read. That seems to be a problem on here.
Giancarlo85
@IvanPH: Anything to defend Tovey. That’s all you do on here. You’re such an brainwashed idiot who doesn’t think on his own. Who said Tovey is even that big in the UK? He certainly isn’t anywhere else. You’re the one that is shallow, narrow minded and a BIGOT most of all. You’ve already posted several nasty comments about feminine men, and you have the audacity to call me narrow minded? You’re the biggest idiotic hypocrite on here. You don’t even a single piece of independent thought.
Being masculine doesn’t get anyone roles. Tovey was being an idiot when he made that point. And it isn’t like his career is booming anyways. So you need to come out of fantasy land for a bit.
Giancarlo85
@IvanPH: I didn’t even realize how much of a stupid blockhead you are. Most of you so called “masculine” gay men haven’t done shit with your lives.
Cam
So even though they’ve been paid to do a sex scene, if he does anything and its a straight actor he automatically feels like he is taking advantage?
He needs to get over some baggage.
Louis
Its unbelievable to me that you cant say something different about this guy without wondering if you will be mocked maligned or persecuted for having a differing opinion about Tovey.
For a community of so called tolerance we really do have a difficult way of showing it ourselves and that’s just sad really.
I felt his comments were divisive rude and derogatory isn’t that my right as an American to feel the way I FEEL ?
Isn’t that our right as human beings to agree to disagree without bashing discriminating against or mocking each other?
How is it fair that just because we may think of Tovey in a different light then his fans do that its then fair to malign and mock those who were simply offended by his earlier comments about feminine gay men?
How is that behavior any different then how we are treated by people who are straight?
Build each other up not tear each other down .
Louis
@IvanPH:
and that right there is a BIAS im afraid.
It doesn’t matter whether you are into sports or more into the arts and creativity everyone matters every life is meaningful and has value and substance to it.
Its wonderful that the media of television and movies are now showing all LGBT people in a more positive visibility.
Its important that we remember that everyone deserves and should be treated with equal respect and dignity as human beings .
IvanPH
@Giancarlo85: Anything to destroy Tovey. Go to his IMDB page and you can see his very long list of films and tv shows he is and was in. The cretinous, unsophisticated creature in you probably thinks that being famous means being famous in the USA. It takes a special breed of stupid to be that shallow and narrow-minded. Isn’t the fact that Queerty publishes articles about him all the time evidence enough of his fame?
I am merely relating an undeniable fact in the entertainment industry that only masculine gay actors get the straight roles in Hollywood. If you say otherwise then name me one flamboyant and effeminate actor who has performed a straight role.
Save yourself from further embarrassment and stop your dazzling display of idiocy.