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Sarah Palin, The Real Victim In Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ Shooting

Rebecca Mansour, the member of Sarah Palin’s tightly bound inner circle who doles out access to Palin like biscuits to a dog, defended her boss on lesbian radio host Tammy Bruce’s program, insisting the ex-governor is also a victim in the Tucson shooting tragedy that left six dead and Rep. Garbrielle Giffords fighting for her life. You know, because everyone is blaming Palin for putting the congresswoman in literal gun crosshairs. It’s not, in fact, a stupid idea for Palin’s camp to immediately mount an aggressive defense of the former governor’s anti-Democrat crosshairs campaign that was peripherally related to Saturday’s violence. Because that’s where this story is going, and Palin Inc. needs to deflect any negative association with a brand of politics that encourages people not to retreat, but reload. But Palin as victim? Hardly.

As Politicususa‘s resident Palin expert Sarah Jones notes: “Instead of owning up to how she has targeted liberals and indeed all political opposition over and over again until they have to man up every morning in order to exercise their freedom of speech, the Palin camp has chosen to feel victimized. And while Mansour goes out of her way to say she’s not Ms Palin’s spokesperson, the culture of victimization that Ms Palin has been carefully tending in her hothouse of self pity until its spores invade even the most immune environments (cries of the press invading her privacy as she is shooting her reality show) has been impossible to miss these past two years. Mansour’s proliferation of outrage is pure Palin.”

In the meantime, alleged shooter Jared Loughner has been charged with five criminal counts, including murder and attempted assassination.

By:           Ryan Tedder
On:           Jan 9, 2011
Tagged: , , , , , , ,

  • 59 Comments
    • Paul in Canada
      Paul in Canada

      Keep talking, Palin. The grave just keeps on getting deeper.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 7:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rev. Steve
      Rev. Steve

      Don’t retreat, folks… RELOAD!

      Jan 9, 2011 at 8:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Matt in Los Angeles
      Matt in Los Angeles

      This headline seems to be in poor taste, especially considering that there are two parents out there who just lost their nine-year old. Not to say that I don’t agree with the article, since that vile woman should own up to her own role in this event.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 8:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chimmy
      chimmy

      the only way “sarah palin” is a victim, would be, when she gets shot in the head…geez, poor palin, reload and keep shootin’…that’s the way I know palin

      Jan 9, 2011 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      Loughner has been charged with attempted “assignation??” WTF??

      This Tammy Bruce person is as crazy as Palin, which is some pretty tall cotton.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 8:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Obama DID say DADT would happen on his watch... (John From England)
      Obama DID say DADT would happen on his watch... (John From England)

      @justiceontherocks:

      She is part of GOproud. I’ve seen you post on Towleroad, some right wing gays over there are saying the same stuff. Look on post on Hernandez.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 9:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @ John in England – I was wrong. I guess GOProud has four members, not three like I believed. Maybe when they raise enough money to get this Barron guy a nose job they’ll go away and let the grown-ups handle things.

      Cheers.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 9:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • libhomo
      libhomo

      Tammy Bruce should be ashamed of herself. She should have nothing to do with someone as incredibly evil as Sarah Palin.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 9:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • frankie
      frankie

      One hallmark of the Tea Party crowd is their inability to take any criticism. It also is what makes them so dangerous.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 10:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      Reading the comments on Tammy Bruce’s website gives one a glimpse into the diseased minds of these people.

      They’re accusing “liberals” of jumping on this tragedy to tar conservatives, yet there’s Tammy Bruce writing:

      and the obscene efforts by many of the left

      shocking effort by depraved liberals

      Jan 9, 2011 at 10:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gregger
      Gregger

      I hope that stupid cunt keeps talking. The more she talks the more people will know that she’s a self serving hack who cannot take responsibility for her own actions and words.

      Keep talking Scarah, keep taking all the way to Hell.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 10:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ronsfo
      ronsfo

      Innuendo if powerful, those little Sarah Palin targets represent her insane ambition and the big wound in the polarized American political system, they are now aimed back at her. Sarah Palen’s gun slinging red-neck ego centric arrogance has back-fired and hopefully she has committed political suicide. It is sad that it had to happen at the expense of an honest politician who puts her constituents before herself.

      My heart goes out to Gabrielle Gifford and her family and all the victims of this insanity.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 12:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
      Steve

      Sarah Palin did publish ads with gun-sight cross-hairs on Gifford. And, Sarah Palin did suggest “second amendment remedies” during that same campaign. There was a flap at the time, and she did some back-pedaling, but Palin really did suggest the use of firearms, and she really did target Gabrielle Gifford.

      I doubt that Palin would have directly communicated with Laughner, or directly asked him to do this. So there was probably no criminal act by Palin or her people.

      But that doesn’t make Palin a victim, by any stretch. Inciting to violence, even in the form of highly protected political speech, is still highly irresponsible.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 2:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 5 · justiceontherocks wrote, “Loughner has been charged with attempted “assignation??” WTF??”

      QUEERTY claimed an attempted assassination, not an assignation (which in one meaning suggests a sexual encounter), assuming a typo wasn’t fixed after you posted that. So far it is only “attempted” because the congresswoman is still alive.

      http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/01/09/national/a115238S86.DTL has some of the details (doctors are “optimistic” but recovery can take a very long time).

      Jan 10, 2011 at 2:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff K.
      Jeff K.

      Somebody needs to send a WAAAAAHHHHHmbulance to WAAAAAHHHHHHsilla, Alaska.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 2:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Paul Weidig
      Paul Weidig

      If anyone thinks that Sarah Palin is immaculately immune to the heinous shootings that have occurred in Tucson, they must be delusional lunatics. “Mama Grizzly” Palin has been a drooling advocate for violent, “lock-and-load” solutions to ending her opponents for many years, even before her quixotic assault into national politics.

      If this bitch had tried anything near the incendiary attacks on those she has targeted in other, more civilized countries like Canada or Great Britain, she would have been locked up long ago.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 3:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TGC
      TGC

      “Those who purport to care about the tenor of political discourse don’t help civil debate when they seize on any pretext to call their political opponents accomplices to murder.” -Glenn Reynolds

      Don’t forget, the KOSholes had Giffords targeted long before Palin did.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 3:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      I hate the lady as much as the next person, well maybe not the next person since my partner loathes and detests her, but I can guarantee you that Sarah Palin did not get where she was without spin.

      This is exactly how this will work. The gun man will be shown to have no link to the Palin camp. Then Palin will garner support from her base by playing the victim. She will claim that the left has made a political assassination plot against her because some fringe lunatic mad man acted on her own and that it is not her fault. Then she will start throwing up other examples of (even liberals) calling to put Giffords’ district in crosshairs.

      In the end, the supporters of Palin will still support her and probably rally by her side to defend her from the left wing people that can’t separate political rhetoric from the actions of a crazy person.

      In short, you guys all fail to realize how Palin’s supporters actually think. This will come out looking better for her in the end.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 6:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      How can this evil bitch look at her own children in the face without knowing she’s incited another to murder an innocent?
      This is the face of true evil.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 6:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TGC
      TGC

      How does Chairman Obama look his own children in the face without knowing he’s incited union thugs to assault and harass American citizens?

      Didn’t Keith Uberfrau suggest that Hillary be killed? How does he still have a job?

      Jan 10, 2011 at 7:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff
      Jeff

      @TGC:

      Dude step away from the FOX-TV you are batshit crazy

      Jan 10, 2011 at 8:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TGC
      TGC

      @Jeff: “Dude”, I don’t watch Fox or any other news. What’s batshit crazy are liberals exploiting a tragedy, yet again, to play political games. What’s batshit crazy is liberals pissing & moaning about “violent rhetoric” while ignoring or excusing their own. What’s batshit crazy is liberals still ASSerting this ass hat had anything to do with Palin and the TEA Parties based on nothing more than their high hopes. What’s batshit crazy are liberals who pull the same shit every single time there’s a tragedy. What’s batshit crazy is watching liberals who don’t seem to give a rotten damn about Giffords. What’s batshit crazy is when Republicans call for thoughts and prayers while the liberals manufacture a fantasy that they hope they can lie into existence. What’s batshit crazy is the blood libel being spread on the internet and via a compliant media. What’s batshit crazy is cheering this sheriff who’s more interested in talking about his opinion rather than the facts of the case.

      What’s batshit crazy is people who defend all of that and sneer at anyone who disagrees.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 8:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
      PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS

      [img]http://ashleyfmiller.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/sarahpac_0.jpg?w=442&h=720[/img]

      Gee, How very suprising. You put out on the internets something like this and someone actually decides to hit one of your targets………

      Jan 10, 2011 at 9:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      But that is the ONLY way Palin can have a conversation. She will never admit that maybe she was wrong or didn’t know something it’s always…

      Boo Hoo, they’re asking me tough questions because I’m a girl

      Boo Hoo Katir Courick Hates me because I’m a republican so asked me a tough question.

      Boo Hoo, they’re only talking about me putting that woman in the crosshairs because they hate me.

      Ugh, her victimology is so much more thourough then any “Welfare Queen” that the GOP uses to scare up votes.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 9:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TGC
      TGC

      @PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS: “and someone actually decides to hit one of your targets”

      Except that it was the KOSholes who put a target on her.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 9:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @ TGC – what’s “batshit crazy” is a Palin tool trolling on Queerty thinking he/she/it is persuading anyone . . .

      Jan 10, 2011 at 9:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
      PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS

      @TGC: I have zero idea what you are talking about…….The above chart was put out and acknowledged to come directley from the Pallin camp…….

      Jan 10, 2011 at 9:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Angelo Ventura
      Angelo Ventura

      Well, that’s some chutzpah, Ms Palin!

      Jan 10, 2011 at 10:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • aquarian
      aquarian

      Really? Palin is the victim?

      Jan 10, 2011 at 11:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tjr101
      tjr101

      Republicans like TGC troll sites trying their best to defend the indefensible. Instead they end up looking just as twisted than Jared Loughner.

      Sarah Palin has to be the most loathsome person in America!

      Jan 10, 2011 at 11:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Baxter
      Baxter

      @PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS: Daily Kos put a “bulls eye” on Giffords’ district in June 2008:

      http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568

      Were they inciting violence?

      The Democratic Leadership Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee released maps with bullseyes and used terms like “targeted” and “behind enemy lines” in 2004 and 2009:

      http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

      Were they inciting violence?

      As much as the left complains about how the right “demonizes” its political enemies, they sure don’t seem to have a problem with accusing their enemies of being violent racists and accomplices to mass murder…

      Jan 10, 2011 at 12:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Daez: The Website was and is Palin’s. She bears responsibility for the content of the website. The Website posted and kept up a map pinpointing people with gunsight cross hairs. Sarah Palin put the idea out there that those people were targets. Sarah Palin also used the phrase “Don’t retreat, Reload!!” Those phrases along with similar crap rhetoric from Michele Bachmann and Sharon Angle about “Armed and Dangerous…..take back our government” and “Second Amendment style justice” make these people culpable.

      Look at what was done to the religious nut who put up a similar map with the names and contact numbers of abortion providers. He was arrested and charged as an accomplice.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 12:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Diz
      Diz

      I hate the little prick that did the deed. Seriously, with all the Palin rallies or WBC protests out there, why not target one of them >:(

      Jan 10, 2011 at 1:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pete
      Pete

      The shooter likes the communist manifesto and mein kampf and you morons are linking this to Palin…quit being assholes…

      What a bunch of gay assholes…

      Jan 10, 2011 at 1:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Max Campbell
      Max Campbell

      stupid bitch

      Jan 10, 2011 at 2:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gry
      Gry

      In the end, this is exactly what the Tea Party and the GOP who pandered to its voter base wanted: an elected official who voted for health care and thus betrayed America was shot by a human embodiment of 2nd Amendment heroism. The Bullet circumvents the Ballot. Government is your enemy and it’s coming for you. Get it before it gets you.

      The trouble is, this is not a fantasy world wherein people just play dress-up and reenact the Revolutionary War. Real people were harmed. Real damage has been done to our political system.

      A good leader knows that words and discourse have power, and that their words are heard by many, some of them not mentally well. Palin’s rhetoric inevitably falls back on the lowest common denominator of violence, conflict, fighting, ass-kickin’ whatever. It’s rather like a bully who doles out punches or foments infighting until he just happens to come up against that one kid with a glass sternum. Suddenly, it’s real.

      We’re always supposed to be worried about our every action “emboldening” terrorists; maybe the same people who constantly use national security as a human shield against any and all criticism could apply the same responsibility domestically.

      The era of the Travis Bickle lone wolf is over.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 3:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pete
      Pete

      @Gry: The shooter was some kind of nazi communist and anti-semitic anti-christian. How can he even be slightly related to the tea party? I get the impression you guys know you are acting retarded but you just do it because of your anti Palin paranoia…

      Jan 10, 2011 at 4:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @TGC: Give me an example of President Obama inciting Union Officials to harass US Citizens.

      Signed a US Citizen who also happens to be a Union Member and Official and IS GAY.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 4:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      TGC should reconsider. A relative of mine got up close to Palin at a meet and greet, and apparently she’s got a bit of a hygiene problem on top of everything else. My cousin said he couldn’t stomach his lunch it was so bad.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 4:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Pete: The Shooter also read Ayn Rand’s We the Living and Orwell’s 1984 & Animal Farm. Those three books were written by anti-socialist anti-authoritarian writers.

      BTW, You cannot be a Nazi and a Communist at the same time they are polar opposite stances and each is incompatible with the other.

      PS, If you want to call names like “asshole,” don’t get pissed off when someone calls you “fuckwad” or some such thing. I’m also thinking you’re really feeling inadequate having to resort to name calling and inferring that people are “retarded.”

      Jan 10, 2011 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tjr101
      tjr101

      @Pete:Palin would certainly take offense to the use of “retarded.”

      Jan 10, 2011 at 5:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TGC
      TGC

      What? Y’all didn’t get your daily Who to Hate memo? Libs are attacking the parents of the 9 y/o girl. Y’all need to catch up and MoveOn.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 7:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TGC
      TGC

      @gregger: “Give me an example of President Obama inciting Union Officials to harass US Citizens.”

      I suppose you’re going to tell me that the unions attacked and harassed people of their own volition?

      “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.” Barack Obama in July 2008

      “I want you to argue with them and get in their face!” Barack Obama, September 2008

      “Here’s the problem: It’s almost like they’ve got — they’ve got a bomb strapped to them and they’ve got their hand on the trigger. You don’t want them to blow up. But you’ve got to kind of talk them, ease that finger off the trigger.” Barack Obama on banks, March 2009

      “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!” Barack Obama, March 2010

      “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.” Barack Obama, June 2010

      “A Republican majority in Congress would mean ‘hand-to-hand combat’ on Capitol Hill for the next two years, threatening policies Democrats have enacted to stabilize the economy.” Barack Obama, October 6, 2010

      “We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us.” Barack Obama, October 2010

      He uses “violent rhetoric” and union and ACORN thugs go on a spree of assaulting people and shoving senior citizens around at town halls. ACORN and SEIU mobs posted addresses of CEOs online (a tactic which Olbermann called another liberal “brown shirt” over)and bussed people to their houses to picket.

      I think it’s totally fair to point this out if you’re gonna blood libel Palin. But let’s suppose, for a moment, that he didn’t incite anybody to do anything. Tell me any of that is appropriate for a president to say.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 7:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TGC
      TGC

      CORRECTION: That was Schultz, not Olbermann.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 7:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      TGC – one question only: are you planning to vote for Sarah Palin in 2012? That would be a “yes” or a “no.” Talking points not needed.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 8:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TGC
      TGC

      @justiceontherocks: You’re asking me to state, right now, who I’m going to vote for at the end of next year without knowing who all the candidates are? Whatever. Besides, it’s a personal policy of mine and my family not to discuss who we vote for. We just don’t. We’ll talk about candidates and policies, sometimes, but not who we vote for. I won’t even discuss politics at work.

      Long story short, no. I won’t take your bait.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 9:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Pete is just pissed off because he got turned down by another guy and TGC has a fetish for Palin porn. Girls with guns give him a stiffy.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 10:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @TGC: The Unions of this Nation might give an ear to this President as they did the previous Presidents, but WE NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL BE THE THUGS OF ANY ADMINISTRATION.

      Now again, specifically addressed to the Unions where did this President incite violence?

      ACORN is a non-entity and never was a Union. The acronym was for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. Please do not lump them in with a Union.

      In A FEW LOCATIONS SEIU members acted out at town hall meetings, so did old people swinging canes, throwing chairs, cursing, spitting on, and assaulting elected officials, for that matter so did police along with county and local employees not affiliated with SEIU.

      Just so you know with almost every Union the jurisdictions are broken up into locals. Each local has autonomy, we operate as a mini-democratic republic with everyone heard. I did not agree with the SEIU locals that published the info of the CEO’s. It’s a cowardly and low thing that was reserved for criminals.

      The Gun and Ass Kicking comments are out of line, yes. Arguing is not out of line, if it was the 43rd President would have been out of line for his entire administration as would his VP, Attorneys General, and at least one Secretary Of State.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 10:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @TGC – your answer is full of double talk. No surprise there. But if you would even consider for a moment voting for a clown like the quitter Alaska governor, you aren’t worthy of another second of our time.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 10:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Pete: Just to make sure this goes past queerty’s filter. I really despise the language you use. Only a person who is feeling inadequate feels the need to call people the names you call them or infer a mental deficiency. Grow up.

      Now as to the Shooter, He also read Mein Kampf, Ayn Rand’s We the Living, Orwell’s Animal Farm and 1984. All of those books are about the individual fighting against either a communist or authoritarian government or figure. He also rails on about only wanting to use a currency based in gold or silver. None of this is either Democratic Party, Socialist Party, or Communist Party. The Gold Standard crap is straight out of the Tea Party and the Libertarians.

      BTW, the shooter is registered in Pima Co AZ as an Independent. He has no party affiliation. He is delusional.

      Care to use any garbage language on me??

      Jan 10, 2011 at 10:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Pete: Hi, guess what you can be either a Communist or a Nazi. You cannot be both as the two ideologies are incompatible. If you don’t believe me go look it up, while you’re at it look up some other things to call people than a—holes or call them retarded as it’s really puerile to do so.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 10:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TGC
      TGC

      @Soupy: “Girls with guns give him a stiffy.”

      Actually, my Latin husband does. Angry, sadistic, bitchy fags don’t, though. Sorry.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 11:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @gregger: queerty’s filter is really going beyond the pale. they needs to step it down.

      Jan 11, 2011 at 12:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @gregger: If Queerty has any issue with the comments in this that I posted the editors really need to look at what they are doing, what they are allowing through, and what they want to do. Then reconcile the three areas as when a clean comment comes through you flag it. When someone who is trolling spouts obscenities and hate, you let it through.

      Wake up and get a clue.

      Jan 11, 2011 at 12:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @GRY: (#36)
      Very well said. Thank you for being a voice of reason.

      Jan 11, 2011 at 2:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles Lambias
      Charles Lambias

      Don’t folks know that “blood libel” is a SURVEYORS term?

      Jan 12, 2011 at 10:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TGC
      TGC

      @Charles Lambias: Don’t folks know that exploiting the dead for fun and profit is disgraceful? Most folks do. Liberals do not, however.

      Damn shame.

      Jan 12, 2011 at 11:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MattGMD
      MattGMD

      Palin often relies on passive-aggressive hit-and-run tactics. She astutely avoids any Q and A opportunities with the press, yet fires off her barely coherent missives on Facebook, Twitter, etc. Make no mistake in thinking Palin is “stupid”, though. We could really be doomed if some kingmaker like Karl Rove gets hold of Palin and is able to keep her crazy talk from going rogue.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 2:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tonja Potvin
      Tonja Potvin

      Bacteria keeps us from heaven and puts us there.

      Aug 2, 2011 at 1:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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