It’s sort of hard to launch a campaign against a concert tour promoter when there are only, like, two left in the country. Which are about to merge. For the past few weeks, Live Nation (which is trying to team up with Ticketmaster) has been taking heat for promoting four U.S. shows for Buju Banton, the noted Jamaica reggae artist who uses his lyrics to taunt homos and encourage others to sic ’em till they’re dead. Why, rational people wondered, was an American corporation trying to profit from such hatred? Well, Live Nation has finally made a call: they won’t.
The concert-merchandising giant agreed to cancel Banton’s four U.S. dates at Live Nation-owned House of Blues venues in Dallas, Chicago, Houston, and Las Vegas.
Except Banton’s U.S. tour isn’t dead yet. In fact, he’s got a helluva lot more performance dates, where he’ll be able to spit lyrics that, you could argue, amount to hate speech and incitement to violence. Here’s one line from a Banton track: “‘Boom bye bye, in a faggot’s head. Rude boys don’t promote nasty men, they have to die.”
Chicago’s Gay Liberation Network, which lobbied Live Nation CEO Michael Rapino to quit trafficking in Banton’s hate, also notes these upcoming tour dates with AEG Live: Philadelphia (Sept 12); Providence (Sept 15); Portland, ME (Sept 17); Revere, MA (Sept 18); Charlotte (Sept 23); Raleigh (Sept 24); Norfolk (Sept 25); Richmond, VA (Sept 26); Detroit (Sept 30); Denver (Oct 6); Aspen, CO (Oct 7); Salt Lake City (Oct 8); San Francisco (Oct 10); Tallahassee (Oct 11); Jacksonville, FL (Oct 12); San Jose, CA (Oct 13); Charleston (Oct 14); Los Angeles (Oct 14); Raleigh (Oct 15).
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
And that’s where the L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center is involved, lobbying AEG Live’s executives to revoke their support as well.
Now, we’re all for free speech. In fact, we’re fine with anyone who wants to write a song about how terrible homos are, how they’re going to ruin American families, and how they dress funny. That is an exercise in free speech, and we wouldn’t take that from anyone. But Banton traffics in a very different type of speech: hate. And he goes one step further, literally calling for the murder of gays:
Anytime Buju Banton comes
Faggots get up and run.
Boom (gun shot) bye bye (Goodbye, as in you’re dead)
In a faggot’s head
Rude boy don’t promote any nasty (queer) man
They have to die…
Send for the automatic (gun) and
The Uzi (gun) instead
Shoot them, don’t come (to help them) if we shoot them…
If a guy comes near me
Then his skin must peel
Burn him up bad like an old tire wheel
Notes the Center’s chief Lorri Jean: “If these were artists who sang about murdering any other group of people, no one would be booking them. Promoters, especially huge businesses like AEG Live and Live Nation, must finally understand that there can be no excuse for booking performers who glorify the murder of, or violence against, LGBT people.”
Damn right.
UPDATE: AEG Live has come to its senses and canceled Banton’s tour dates with the company.
jason
A lot of these homphobic Jamaican artists are propped up by liberal whites and the usual suspects in the black music industry. The liberal whites see them as “hip” (after all, they do reggae) while the blacks seem them as brothers. It truly is a repulsive case of enabling.
As a community, we must be fervent and feverish in ensuring that these proponents of murder music are exposed and embarrassed. We also need to embarrass their fans.
alan brickman
Don’t be loser control freaks like the conservatives…It is Free speech whether you like it or not…would you also want gay rights speeches bannned too?….taking away people’s choices whether you like them or not would make America just as much of a loser country as those in the Middle East or still Communist countries…how’s the gay right in these countries again??…
alan brickman
I’m buying him right now….
Steff
To be fair, there’s a bit of a divide between free speech and inciting murder..
Mark
Promoting murder and violence directed at Gays is not a free speech issue. Threaten to kill your neighbor, pastor, co-worker or friend and let me know how that works out for you.
hugh
Batty boyz beat back.
dgz
@jason: there you go again, spouting glittering generalities about what “the blacks” think. when will you learn?
@Steff: exactly — a big difference — the latter is a very real crime. someone should go yell “fire!” in a crowded theater. during his concerts.
——
this guy’s performing in San Fran!? he’s totally going to get straight-bashed.
sal(the original)
well i remember a concert where one of these “conscious” artists said death to white people and there were white people in the audience lol tells ya the kinda fools that listen to this garbage
sal(the original)
elton john has a hard time coming to the caribbean to sing love songs while this meat head gets in to sing hate?!wow we are “paradise” lol for who??hateful idiots,thats who
AlwaysGay
Thank you everyone who contacted LiveNation, Citibank, Ticketmaster and the others that were involved in setting up these concerts. As soon as I heard Buju Banton had concerts set up by these organizations I contacted them all suggesting they cancel the concerts. We can not allow people to profit off of hatred and death threats.
sal(the original)
wow people who cant “procreate”,well i guess we should get rid of old people,infertile people,children etc etc..as i said fools listen to this garbage
Jim
@AlwaysGay:Batty boy
Tallskin
Hah, a successful campaign then! Well done the organisers!
We’ve (mostly) managed to stop these vile fuckers appearing over here in the UK and Europe, even though they still manage to slip through
Thing that baffles me is that they honestly don’t see that they’ve done anything wrong, and perceive themselves as victims of gay and, more generally, white oppression because they’re stopped from making money out of calling for gays to be killed!
When they bastards were stopped from touring the UK a whole pack of rastas demonstrated outside the Home Office here in London protesting about racism!
Wankers and murderers the lot of them. I just wish they could be put on trial and sent down.
Ariel
@sal(the original): Old is natural faggotism is perversion
dgz
@Jim: why don’t you go smoke some more gange and chill out?
btw, your IM speak is tres masculine. ha.
sal(the original)
ya’ll conscious ya’ll conscious look at the caribbean!!!look at the ‘men” here!!!what ya’ll doin consciously??!!!smokin weed and bein “gangstas”,that liftin up the caribbean???no!!!
alan brickman
I’m also using my free speech right now to ask..”wasn’t he a former RENT BOY for black obsessed queens?”….
sal(the original)
look at the headlines some dumb boys screwin up their future!!and ya’ll is the ones who should “procreate”…yeah fatherless homes!!!look at the facts ya homophobes!!!!
sal(the original)
lol it is hysterical to see these homophobes comments!!you guys sound sooo simple!!!keep it up ,the caribbean will lose all the smart minds to progressive(key word progressive,learn it) countries and they will(hell they already are)left with ya’ll fools!!lol
sal(the original)
lol yeah so procreating jamaica is the beacon of what we should all aim to be??!!!hahahahahahaha yeah high crime,ignorant small minds hmmm sound perfect!!!!hahahahahha
Tallskin
JIM, you nasty third worlders are over-breeding and the planet just cannot take too many more of you badly educated nasty little arsewipes!
Homosexuality is the only way to bring down the overpopulation that you’re inflicting on us all.
And no, we don’t intend taking anymore of your surplus overpopulation in the civilised world, thanks!
sal(the original)
oh and i forgot a shitty economy that a good percent relies on people wanting to come and “relax” on your island??lookin at the murder stats you guys sure make it sound all homey and stuff!hahahahahha
Bryan
I would not consider this to be a violation of his 1st amendment rights to free speech. What people often fail to realize is that the constitution protects people from reprisals from the government for free speech. Corporations and private citizens have absolutely no duty to allow him to say this. It would be a violation of his free speech rights in the government were to shut him down, but a company refusing to give him a platform is just a good business decision and good for the public.
Kid A
@Basterd: Sounds like you just have an issue with anal sex. Seen any straight porn lately?
Kid A
@Bryan: Thank you Bryan, this is a distinction so many people fail to make, especially on cable “news” which makes it especially misleading.
Kevin B
Jim, Ariel, etc.,
Please tell us all just one thing you’ve contributed to this planet so that we may be inspired to follow in your footsteps.
sal(the original)
@Jim: maybe you should move to the caribbean(the vicious gangs will welcome you with open gun totting arms hahahaha)!!some gays can take ya place!!
Kid A
@Kevin B: They’ll probably say “children”.
Kevin B
Professor of physics? At Blunted University?
Jim, I hate to say it but I’m still far more impressed by anal sex than I am by you. Seems today is not the day I’ll be loving vagina.
yaaay.
Tallskin
Well Jim, a prof of physics, eh? Really?
Don’t make me laugh!
A liar as well as a total wanker
sal(the original)
professor of what school may i ask??what would your higher learning employers think of your words???
vernonvanderbilt
I think I’m going to write a song about killing Buju Banton. Maybe that would be considered free speech as well.
sal(the original)
professor!!ha!!i felt sooo challenged
alan brickman
Let people make up their own minds….My free speech again…
alan brickman
And gays never say “anything that resembles hate speech?”….
sal(the original)
@alan brickman: hmmmm incite vicious murder on a group of people….umm no i dont think “the gays” have
alan brickman
Instead of banning his concerts here to show what “respecatble gays” you are…why don’t you just stop going to Jamaica , and boycott having sex with all the black rent boys?….wouldn’t that be more effective and less hypocritcal??…
sal(the original)
@alan brickman: last time i checked people like that were Hitler…..wow what a group to be in haters
sal(the original)
@alan brickman: lol well “dutty wine” ,carnival etc that kinda sexual culture soooo spread by the gays right!!!??hahahahha fool!!!!!
alan brickman
stop having sex with them for money and taking advantage of them because they are poor..and maybe they wouldn’t be like this?…just a thought….
alan brickman
wow like Hitler!! the jews will really like you for throwing that around…
sal(the original)
@alan brickman: you turn on the local radio SEX SEX SEX with different girls who are super promiscuous ….thats gays too right??!!hahahahha
alan brickman
Calling someone Hitler to shut them up just gave me the scope of your education and hypocrisy to free speech…
sal(the original)
@alan brickman: ummm hitler killed gays too fool!!!!!!
sal(the original)
@alan brickman: wow let me guess jim was your professor??!!hahahha
alan brickman
the freedom to chose..is the most precious right of all…don’t let others do it for you…
alan brickman
I have to go to work now..and then to the gym…later..
Dave
Hey Alan, wear a pink shirt to his show so that you can be the one to live out his free speech lyrics.
sal(the original)
@alan brickman: hmmm wasnt that how hitler started??with “innocent hate speech”…..incitement to violently wipe out a group of society must not be tolerated!!!!ever!!!!
Kid A
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law
You never let me down, Queerty commenters.
TomE
Lyrics published above:
1 – Domestic Terrorism, and/or
2 – Guerilla warfare.
edgyguy1426
reads like hate speech to me, but maybe if it’s sung to music it’s ‘art’
oh boy
The thing is – he is allowed to have these opinions and people will say “Oh, we don’t agree but free speech and blah, blah, blah…”
But then if I or someone else say his music sounds like cave people and he behaves like a savage and his yelling in a microphone sounds like primitave ignorance coupled with assualting, hostile doom…
I get labeled a racist and he gets a free slip to behave so ugly ’cause he is black.
And more people get upset with me even though he is the one advocating violence and killing people.
Tell me – how does that make sense? How did it become we live in a society where accusations of racsim, which are highly subjective to begin with, are seen as more disdainful than wanting to kill someone?
Just goes to show how liberlism has gone amuck and how people have become brainwashed by the “racist police” of our world, who seem to see themselves as more self-righteous and sanctified than everyone else.
Lloyd Baltazar
You forgot,
His PHILADELPHIA and SAN FRANCISCO tour events also just got cancelled.
What you sow is what you reap.
Lloyd Baltazar
Los Angeles tour for October 14 also just got cancelled.… this is due to the many people demanding their ticket refunds from the concert.
LiveNation is granting full refund for cities that request the ticket for an exchange or in which the tour has been cancelled. Banton’s LA tour is cancelled. Yay.
Kevin B
@oh boy @ #53:
I’m sort of off tangent with what I’m about to say but everytime I see an argument like this “Someone does this and people say x, I say this and people say y” I want to point out that you use the word “people” as if it’s the same group saying both things. It’s usually one group that says x and a different group that says y. So the perceived double standard you see doesn’t really exist.
Andrew
Good. Hope more of his shows get cancelled. Fuck him and his shitty lyrics and “music.” As for Alan Brickman, and others, who erroneously conflate hate speech with free speech, wake up. The two are not the same. Your argument is flawed and it sucks to hear people defending this jackass stoner homophobe.
jason
Buju Banton’s may be free speech but it isn’t necessarily freedom-enabling. This is a crucial point. When certain people exercise free speech, it can lead to consequences that are the complete opposite of freedom, such as murder.
Nevertheless, because we believe in free speech, Buju Banton is entitled to his free speech. However, we in the community are also entitled to ours.
jason
What I find disturbing is the lack of criticism of Buju from the black community. It’s as if the black community will protect or enable anyone who’s black regardless of what they stand for. Sad, isn’t it?
Lloyd Baltazar
I agree. It is sad that many black people don’t step up to call out Banton’s homophobic remarks just because they are black. This is an example of their own glass prejudice that they ought to consider.
Granted, Banton has a right to free speech to whatever lyrics he so chooses BUT LiveNation has the right to refuse their corporate services to anyone, including the right to shun Banton for his call for public violence against LGBT people—or anyone for that matter. It is high risked liability and scandal for ClubNokia and LiveNation in case a crime occurs. Plus, its just not acceptable to promote an artist like that who call for public violence against others in this day and age.
EveryoneKnewHimAsNancy
@alan brickman:
If he were singing about killing Jews would you still say that?
Kevin B
@EveryoneKnewHimAsNancy:
In fairness to Alan, I bet he would still say that. Alan has a clear conviction and I respect that about him whether you agree or disagree with what he has to say.
My only discrepancy with him here today is that he keeps using the word “ban” when the only thing really being discussed here is a boycott. They are two very different things. That’s not so to to say that some people in this section wouldn’t call for an actual ban but, for the most part, people are really only calling for a boycott.
dgz
@jason: how would *you* know if there was criticism from “the black community?” where have you looked?
me
He’ll probably get awarded by the NAACP and receive a standing ovation like Isaiah Washington.
Phoenix (The One Who Carries Concealed)
@ VERNONVANDERBILT,
Anytime Whitey comes
Niggers get up and run.
Boom (gun shot) bye bye (Goodbye, as in you’re dead)
In a Niggers’s head
Rude boy don’t promote any nasty (black) man
They have to die…
Send for the automatic (gun) and
The Uzi (gun) instead
Shoot them, don’t come (to help them) if we shoot them…
If a guy comes near me
Then his skin must peel
Burn him up bad like an old tire wheel…
@ Alan Brickman,
What? I don’t have right to Free Speech? If it’s okay to say “kill the faggots” then it must be okay to say “kill the Jamaican Nigger” too! Right? Right?
schlukitz
Admittedly a bit off-topic, but pertinent to the drift of the discussion on this thread, has anyone seen this little gem?
Idaho Gubernatorial Candidate Rex Rammell Jokes About Hunting Obama
This dumb fuck just made a cavalier threat on the President’s life, which is a crime…says it a joke and then arrogantly refuses to apologize.
WTF?
Rikard
Buju Banton wants to shoot faggots in the head. He is scheduled to play in Salt Lake City and our new govonor doesn’t think we need legal protection. Fu(<eD Up!
schlukitz
Oops…here’s the missing link: http://tinyurl.com/lkmydu
RainaWeather
As a black homosexual I must ask, who the fuck is this guy?
And @jason: Why does the black community specifically need to criticize this guy? Why not just anyone who’s not a bigot? In fact, why not just anyone who likes this genre of music? Just Jamaicans? Just people with dreadlocks? Just men? People with big foreheads?
Kevin B
@Phoenix (The One Who Carries Concealed):
Why do people keep trying to back Alan into a corner? If you think you’re going to win, then you don’t understand what he’s trying to say.
schlukitz
@RainaWeather:
As a black homosexual I must ask, who the fuck is this guy?
Sweetheart, if you need to ask that question, you just ain’t been listening and you obviously do not know how to do a Google search on the Internet.
schlukitz
@Kevin B:
Well, now that makes two of you whom I do not understand what you’re trying to say.
Jeton Ademaj
@Kevin B:
Because Alan should turn around and mumble into that corner. his defense of free speech is specious here, Banton’s speech is not restricted. Rather, corporate entities that were promoting him have been embarrassed from doing so, as few corporations like to be associated with incitement-to-murder. Let Banton promote himself, as he is so good at doing, and perhaps he’ll cross the line into prosecutable behavior someday…i look forward to it.
to RainaWeather: in general, gay men of color have an observably bad habit of making *myriad, impassioned* excuses for homophobia in their own ethnic communities. to their credit, i have seen a few gay men of color be the very loudest in decrying that excuse-making…most caucasian gays shrink meekly from such offering such DESERVED criticism. go find of those few and listen to what he has to say.
RainaWeather
@schlukitz: That was a joke for the person complaining that blacks are not condemning this man. I’m making the point that we don’t all know every black person who happens to be famous among some subset of people.
RainaWeather
@RainaWeather: But in all seriousness, I really don’t know who this man is.
will clemens
I find that amusing, Tell a story about a man singing the words about hate crimes and killings,,and my single “Nigger” word sends this site in to a panic.
Duncan Behines
That is one ugly mother fucker. LOL @ all his shows being cancelled. And back to Jamaica you go.
rudy
It’s ironic living in a pretty much free country.
Part of me wants to defend art no matter how offensive, and another part fantasizes that if I owned a gun and my doctor told me I only had only six months to live, I’d take a few homophobes down with me.
(Our Lutheran minister lurker now faints)
dgz
@RainaWeather: it’s okay, i understood what you meant: he’s hardly JayZ. i’ve only heard about him in the context of complaints; i’ve never heard his music, and my tastes are pretty much all-encompassing.
jason
It’s important for the black community to criticize Buju. If a gay musician suddenly came on a stage and started singing a song about enslaving blacks, it would be incumbent upon the gay community to criticize him too.
schlukitz
@jason:
Absolutely.
Anyone who does not agree with that and refuses to speak up, is party to the crime.
Not straight
Hey Alan Brickman – are you a dirty filthy jew bastard?
Kevin B
@schlukitz:
I’m not trying to defend Alan I’m just commenting that people are wasting their time with attempts to get him to change his mind. They think if they present an argument a different way that he’ll suddenly change his mind. They’re completely missing his point if they think that is going to happen.
@Jeton Ademaj:
I said earlier that he is using the word “ban” when all that is being discussed is a boycott. So we’re on the same page.
schlukitz
@Kevin B:
Thank you for the clarification. We are on the same page as well.
Mikey
Why use a pejorative word like “cave” in the headline when LiveNation did the right thing and withdrew its sponsorship of Banton’s tour?
rudy
@jason: @dgz: No.
Most black people have absolutely nothing to do with this singing bigot.
You are connecting them to him by means of race, and then demanding that they separate themselves.
I certainly do not want to assume the burden of condemning every gay or white or male or resident of Alabama who transgresses.
There’d be time for nothing else.
schlukitz
@rudy:
Sorry, Jack. That’s a cop-out.
Not speaking up when anyone “transgresses”, is merely giving them your tacit assent, which only serves to empower the one who is transgressing.
A good example, is Pope Pius XII, who looked the other way while the Jews were being railroaded to the gas chambers.
will clemens
When the cubans came over in the 60’s and 70’s blacks took issues with them because they were and are very hard working people that want to get ahead, When the Mexicans started to Migrate the blacks again had many issues with them,,Blacks dont even like Jews, so now its the gays,,actually the Black community takes issue with every one that may take the spot light away from them for 5 seconds and that works hard and wants to suceed. Truth be known blacks love to whine and bitch and scream and rant,,and little else.
Jeton Ademaj
@will clemens: would u like some fried chitlins and watermelon or will ur pointy white hood obstruct eating them?
will clemens
@Jeton Ademaj: Sorry if what I said offended, but this is what I have seen growing up in South Florida,,time and time again and the most liberal people I know in privacy will say the exact same thing from that sunshine state. Now living in Boston with a Spouse and two children ( gay marriage) and as a firefighter I am again seeing the same thing with test taking, and the right to stay a firefighter and fail the test,,its getting ridiculous.
An Other Greek
No. 90 · will clemens
—
It saddens me that a government employee, and one in charge of saving people’s lives, can be so aggressively ignorant.
Seems that you are beyond “checking yourself”…
I really hope that your colleagues are more enlightened.
—————————————————————–
Jeton Ademaj
@An Other Greek:
playing devil’s advocate is stale to me, even when i get to do it hypocritically, but u wont resolve Will’s issues or the deeper social tension underlying them with simple liberalist condescension. his earlier screed notwithstanding, the issues he replied to me with are more complicated than a simple “enlightened” vs “unenlightened” dismissal can address.
the NYTimes may agree with you, Greek, but fewer and fewer people care what they have to say anyway. 🙂
RainaWeather
@jason: If you wanna look at it that way. I think everyone of every race, sexual orientation, etc, is equally responsible for condemning bigotry. So I don’t think this is an issue for the black community anymore than it’s an issue for the white republican community.
will clemens
I find it odd that as a democrate and an Obama supporter I am being veiwed as a racist because I have an oppinion on how the black community as a whole seems to be openly irratated with every race and every sect of society and are the only ones allowed to scream racist,its getting boring and America has caught on.its bullshit.
will clemens
@An Other Greek: It saddens me that I have to pass a test as a white man and a black person can fail it and claim the test is racist. There isnt another firefighter in Boston that feels differntly,,so I guess we are all racist.
Phoenix (Maggie Gallagher's Worst Nightmare Come True)
@ Kevin B,
I understand what Alan ‘First Amendment’ Brickman is saying. Yes, free speech is important and should be protected….but while a person does have the right to free speech they do not have the right to shout ‘fire’ in a crowded movie theater, or spread malicious slanderous/libelous lies, or promote violence against another person/group of people. Buju Banton is perfectly welcome to dislike LGBT persons and say he doesn’t like LGBT persons. Buju Banton doesn’t have the right to promote the killing of them….anymore than we have the right to promote the murder of Jamaicans with “…Boom (gun shot) bye bye (Goodbye, as in you’re dead) in a Niggers’s head…”.
will clemens
The promotiom of this Singers death is what I call fair play time.
will clemens
@Phoenix (Maggie Gallagher’s Worst Nightmare Come True): The promotion of this singers death is what I call fair play time.
Kevin B
@Phoenix (Maggie Gallagher’s Worst Nightmare Come True):
It might be your personal view on what a person should have the right to do or not to do but you’d be wrong if you think he is breaking any laws.
will clemens
@Kevin B: Phoenix, Never did I state that this man does not have the right to voice his oppion,,but I also like to excircise my oppionion. When one says “faggot or queer etc” in a song,I have the right to say nigger.Fair is fair.
AlwaysGay
@will clemens: I concur.
rudy
@schlukitz:My post is quite clear that I am not promoting silence in the face of bigotry.
I am denying the right of some straight person to tell me I have to set aside my own agenda and speak out against some particular nutjob who happens to be gay.
To me when some white person tells a black man he must condemn some other black, that to me is totally racist.
And I extend this to my race, sex, and where I happen to live.
You may invite me to sign your petition, join your boycott, whatever, but you don’t tell me it’s my special duty to condemn someone because we are the same race.
To anyone who can’t respect that, I say screw you.
That you could compare my position to Pope Pius XII, who you say “looked the other way while the Jews were being railroaded to the gas chambers,” is totally offensive.
Pius XII betrayed anti-fascist Catholic parties in both Germany and Italy (and ultimately the Jews) by negotiating and signing agreements with the Nazis and the Fascists stating the Church would not criticize their politics if they didn’t interfere with the Church’s autonomy.
Pius XII did not just “look the other way.”
His silence was bought.
Jeton Ademaj
@rudy:
you can deny someone’s demands upon you for any reason at all, but in identity politics if you choose to *reflexively* say “screw you” to someone from Group X who has a problem with Person Z from your own Group Y, you forfeit any right to or hope of influencing Group X…because you DO have more responsibility for Person Z than someone from Group X does. it’s just one of the costs of belonging (voluntarily or not) to any group.
call it what you will, it’s how human group interactions work…all po-po-mo identity-politics n juvenile dont-tread-on-me-isms so very NOTwithstanding. dont try decrying complacency in the face of bigotry when you’re (proudly!) guilty of it yourself. It’s a balancing act required of everyone, and most people fail it to varying degrees. your “screw you” response is mere failure here.
rudy
@Jeton Ademaj: I really don’t see how it harms race relations for a white person to defend the rights of blacks to choose their own fights or by saying “screw you” to a person of his own color.
One of us has his X, Y and Zs seriously mixed up.
Jeton Ademaj
@rudy: that would be you. you’re claim is that it’s “racist” for some white person to expect a black person to condemn the evil of another black, when it’s merely presumptuous. just as it is merely presumptuous and not homophobic for some straight person to expect you to condemn a gay person because you yourself happen to be gay. it’s one thing to tell a single individual making such demands to “fuck off”, but claiming that you’ll reflexively tell *everyone* with such expectations to ‘fuck off’ basically makes you complicit with the original offense, whether by (perceived) silence or by apologia.
denying the underlying anthropology of that reality is most typical of the youthful and/or the tendentious. which one would u be?
jason
If a gay singer went on a stage and sang about killing blacks, I’d be the first to condemn him. I’d be vociferous about it too.
I have not yet heard one black rapper or hip-hop artist condemn Buju Banton. Not one. Where are they all?
Tallskin
A racist comment by Eric clapton on stage here in the 1970s led to whites here in the UK forming ROCK AGAINST RACISM, which successfully battled against racism, organising concerts, campaigns, etc etc
Yet, not one black artist, organisation, has ever condemned the anti-gay reggae singers EVER.
On the contrary, any attempt to condemn these vile Jamaicans and homophobic rappers has been called racist and we’ve had demonstrations here in the UK in SUPPORT of these anti-gay ragga artists like elephant man, buju banton etc.
I seem to remember the singer from guns and roses coming out with an anti-gay remark being shot down in flames very very quickly.
But because this ragga thing involves blacks, white liberals had to be bashed and co-erced into acting to stop them!!!
rudy
@Jeton Ademaj: “that would be you. you’re claim is that it’s ‘racist’ for some white person to expect a black person to condemn the evil of another black, when it’s merely presumptuous.”
I would certainly agree with you that “expecting” is merely presumptuous.
But my actual words were when “some white person TELLS a black man he MUST condemn some other black”
As a white man, no one has the authority to tell me how I MUST respond, and I therefore extend that same respect to black people.
What a strange social justice movement this has become that treating people as equals should be controversial.
schlukitz
@rudy:
You blithely overlook one thing, Rudy. A black, Jamaican rapper calling for the death of a gay person, is not “treating people as equals”. Colossal fail!
You appear to be more concerned about the “rights” of the rappers calling for violence and death to gays, than you are about protecting the victims of such blatant, disgusting and outrageous public behavior.
I would wish this on no one because no one deserves to be hurt, but if you ever become the victim of this kind of hate crime, I wonder what song you will be singing then?
Chitown Kev
@jason:
I agree with this somewhat, although Buju Banton’s audience is mostly Jamacian immigrants and liberal whites, not many in American black community. Most people in the American black community probably are not aware (or vaguely so) of who Buju Banton even is.
It’s the responsibility of his audience, I would say, to condemn him.
Chitown Kev
@rudy:
Actually, I agree with that sentiment because probably the “batty boy” that will be bashed or murdered by this man’s music is also black.@jason:
He DOES sing about killing blacks. Buju is indifferent as to the race of the batty boy.
will clemens
Let me say the word “nigger and Queerty is all over me,because we must try and “understand” Nigga Please.
torontogirl
Toronto (more specifically, Circa — a very gay-inclusive club) did the same thing with Elephant Man. These musicians step on far too many toes not to be reprimanded. I remember back in 96 when I was a youngin, Eminem was almost banned from Canada because of his incindiary and blatantly homophobic comments and lyrics.. perhaps we would’ve been the better for it 🙂
torontogirl
@Mikey:
I’m totally with you on the use of the word “cave”.
An Other Greek
@will clemens:
stop whining…
your analogy is shallow and not even self-serving, in its weakness…
“Queerty” ought to be “all over you” for using racist words.
What’s your point? That you should tolerated as a racist on a gay blog because a Jamaican musician is homophobic? Sheez!
—————————————————————–
will clemens
@An Other Greek: geek Buju Baton advocaters the murder of any and all homosexuals,I state That I Advocate the Murder of Buju Baton!
An Other Greek
that’s not what I replied too…
be careful not to translate your stated frustration/bitterness over affirmative action into racism.
———————————————————–
will clemens
Who cares ,I still have my right to the first amendment , when are gays going to grow a pair? Let them walk all over us and then cry? Fuck that shit, find him take him down a dark ally and beat him til he is dead. simple buba
An Other Greek
you need help
——————–
RainaWeather
It’s sad that so many can’t deal with people controlling their own damn lives
Jeton Ademaj
@An Other Greek: in general, i have little problem with the violent death of those who call for my death. And i’ll applaud the StoneWall rioters over the Gay and Lesbian Anti-Violence Project any day.
strategically, i’m against the assassination of Buju Banton exclusively because it’s my assessment that his infamous “boom bye bye” single demanding the slaughter of gay men would change from a mostly hyperbolic semi-musical rant into a rallying cry that most gay men are as yet vastly too pussified to defend against. If it comes to my attention that any specific gay men lost their lives as a result of that song, my assessment is likely to alter…and so would that of a growing number of others.
However, attacks upon people who’d love to see Banton dead get no sympathy from me.
will clemens
@Jeton Ademaj: I do not wish for your sympathy, In 1992, My Partner was murderd by a man of his ilk. I am a happy man today living in Boston, married to a wonderful partner with two children I am a firefighter and am tired of the black communties irrational basis of attacks and rants on homosexuals do to some immaginary dead beat sky daddy. I will stay vigil over these type peolple always and threaten bac,,and yes threaten their very life. I have had it up to here with the dont call us a Nigger while we go crazy on the faggot word. mind set. I will always advocate for this mans Murder!
Jeton Ademaj
@will clemens: stop being stupid, i was defending you and withholding my sympathies from your critics. however, this post of urs does underline my original pointy-white-hood comment to you…ur anger is making u a bit nutty in a silly way, or a bit silly in a nutty way…take ur pick.
will clemens
Now your starting to get it,,thats exactly what I am doing,or rather being is…… “nutty”, people need to understand that talking about this no longer works with the black and hyper religious crowds,,just flip it and use all the “Niggers” words and advocate the same that has been advocated for you and your,,its koo koo for coco puffs ,,,but always works in a jif.
Jeton Ademaj
@will clemens: rather than being nutty, you might consider being mature, strategic…and armed. you live in Florida, a state that honors your 2nd Amendment rights and further empowers you with a “stand your ground” law. rein in your emotions and rhetoric and see if there’s a local chapter of the Pink Pistols you might join, or create.
rest assured that being sane and controlled and ARMED is far more intimidating to bigots than being hysterical and uncontrolled, armed or not. sane and strategic people can form functional alliances with other sane and strategic people…those are the groups that have ruled human history. This is why oppressors learn to divide and conquer…only sane people can effectively unify, and only unified people can fight back with longterm effectiveness.
http://www.pinkpistols.org, check it out. my heartfelt condolences on the death of your partner btw, it’s my worst fear and i wish nothing but utmost sorrow and destruction upon his killers.
will clemens
Frist off I grew up in Florida and now live in Boston, am married with two children so I am happy once again, butI have heard this rhetoric all before and it is useless on the ears of the hyper religious, Islamics ,Jews and Christians, which are all an excirsise in mentall illness. Once we take the steam away fro religion and their mentally ill followers we can live in a productive society.I grew up in Cocoa Beach to a Scientist for a father who is now 81, and that neighborhood was coverd with them and the one thing that they all agreed on is that religion even controlled their reseach,,much to their sadness.
Jeton Ademaj
@will clemens: ur not thinking logically. the hyper-religious know as well as anyone how to analyze an opponent. nutty, disorganized people are never as intimidating as angry, organized people. always been that way, always will be. Even with the possibility of nukes, Al Qaeda aint as scary as the Soviets were.
ur simply not ever going to get more than a hyper-tiny minority of queers to follow you (if any), and any madness you wreak (which i doubt since you actually sound kinda bougie and invested in stability) will simply rebound on other queers. your biggest impact would probably be getting religious parents to strangle their perceived-to-be-queer teenagers before the teenagers can act as the violent provocateurs your hypothetical actions would suggest.
kinda reminds me of the Harvey Milk-esque exhortations for all gays to “come out, come out wherever you are”…the movie effectively whitewashed what organizations serving queer youth eventually learned…that advice was partly responsible for the homelessness, rape and death of many queer youth. now amplify that 1,000-fold as queers in general become as socially radioactive as Islamic fundies who move to a redneck town. you’d effectively kill vastly more queers than you’d save. **IF** you’re not just being self-aggrandizing, you have to consider the social and political fallout of your actions.
if none of that matters to you, than you are expressly insane, and unworthy of conversation. i suspect you’re just venting online, but i watch the news like everyone else, so i guess i’ll look for you there.
will clemens
@Jeton Ademaj: In 1978, I was arrested fro refusing to stop slow dancing with my boy friend at Disney world on grad nite 78,( chargese were later dropped) Served in the AF , rose up through the ranks as a firefighter and openly gay man , one of the first ot get married in MA and have two children. At this time in my life I will do as I please. Nothing in hte gay world ever got accomplished with just sitting and writting one congress, some times you have to bash some skulls.
Chitown Kev
@will clemens:
All I have to say to you is this…
Of course it must have been painful to go through what you went through, but does not give you the right to use whatever racial epithets that you want to use and condemn an entire community. Hell, with your state of mind you would shoot my ass if I looked at you the wrong way.
I can no more take account for Buju Banton (and I am not even Jamaican) then you should take account for Pastor Steven Anderson.
will clemens
@Chitown Kev: Look Kevin all I am saying is that we are all a bit weary of the black community getting angry over every tiny element of society, When the Cubans came over the blacks went to war with them, the same things with the spanih and the Mexicans, for some reason, blacks do not seem to like any one and every one has to pay . When black see a new group emerging, and working hard, they seems to get angry and start whinning and the attention then soon goes back to them. I love the Mexicans, Spanish and Cubans etc etc, they work hard and keep the bitching to a minimum.
Chitown Kev
@will clemens:
Who’s this “we”? What blacks are you talking about? Surely not myself…
Chitown Kev
@will clemens:
Let me add, I am very well aware of anti-Latino sentiment in the black community. I always speak out against it; in fact I have cut off friendships over it.
And now you’re saying that blacks don’t work hard (we have a history of working hard and not being paid for it, remember? Not saying that I am for slave reparation because I’m not, but I’m just sayin…)
Sounds like you buy into the “Birth of a Nation” type stereotypes against all us trifiling ass Negroes, including myself…but no, I shouldn’t be offended…yeah, right…
will clemens
@Chitown Kev: From now on please E-mail me at [email protected]. Ok , Let me start by saying the black community has the highest prison population per capita by a loooong shot, the highest dead beat daddy population per capita by a long shot, etc etc black on black crime is a disater, and the black community has a whole is concerned over latins and gays? Enough is Enough! I used to be so suportive of the black community,,My own mother even defended Angela Davis, now is the time to get your own commuity in order and stop playing the blame game.
Jeton Ademaj
@Chitown Kev: i don’t suppose it makes a difference to Will that Buju is Jamaican, and that they also tend to fit his stereotype of the hard-working immigrant ostensibly resented by American blacks.
incidentally, i say nigga/nigger rather freely, as endearment and as insult, and occasionally as interrogative placeholder, where appropriate. I grew up in the Bronx ghetto and know my position is a perilous one, especially in ‘polite society’, but fuckit and everyone who don’t like it…the whole idea of “we can say it but u can’t” is forever beneath my contempt.
that said, i actually do happen to believe in slavery reparations, and remain interested in seeing a workable scenario envisioned and put forth toward that end. if Jews could be compensated by Germany, Blacks can certainly be compensated by the USA…n maybe Great Britain.
Chitown Kev
@will clemens:
Who’s blaming who for what? And why would I even e-mail you?
AlwaysGay
@will clemens: Yep. We, as gay people, need to focus on ourselves first. Too many gay people want to help everyone else, who already have all their rights.
Chitown Kev
@AlwaysGay:
You might be surprised by this, but I agree with you.
will clemens
@Chitown Kev: LOL yes, I am a bit suprised.
will clemens
@AlwaysGay: Very, true and to the point.
Chitown Kev
@will clemens:
Well, it’s not like the straight black community is exactly supportive of black gays, let’s face it. (Some are, MOST aren’t) Most of what “the black community” calls their “culture” was created by black gays and lesbians.
Now as far as helping black gays in the gay community with a helping hand as needed, yeah I can go with that. Helping straight allies in the black community, well it depends on what they want help with.
rudy
“I grew up in the Bronx ghetto and know my position is a perilous one, especially in ‘polite society’, but fuckit and everyone who don’t like it…the whole idea of ‘we can say it but u can’t’ is forever beneath my contempt”
– Jeton Ademaj, Post # 134
” it’s one thing to tell a single individual making such demands to ‘fuck off’, but claiming that you’ll reflexively tell everyone with such expectations to ‘fuck off’ basically makes you complicit with the original offense”
– Jeton Ademaj, Post # 105
Jeton Ademaj
@rudy: ho-hum, the difference there is the one of linguistic evolution versus the classic immutability of violence. like it or not, the “n-word” evolves in usage and context, like all other language invariably and inexorably does…whereas calling for the murder of a specific group remains threatening to that group, in all cultures and time-periods.
Black person A (and others) may get made at me for calling Black person B “nigga”, but if Black person B and I are ok with it, you have a more complex dynamic than if I call for the death of Black people and White person A refuses to condemn me when asked by Black person A.
get it?
Jeton Ademaj
@rudy: furthermore, as pertaining to insults, if Black person A calls me “faggot” with the plain intent to insult, i reserve the right to call him “niggER” or perhaps “nigra” (never “nigga”) in response…whether it’s on a crowded NYC subway car, the street, or wherever. words can indeed be weapons, and i disavow very little weaponry.
whether conflict-avoidance or conflict-escalation is the more appropriate choice in any given situation is a another, far-more complex discussion. however, being exclusively conflict-avoidant is an exercise in simple pussyhood, one far too many gay men have been sold on.
will clemens
@Jeton Ademaj: That will never happen, then The irish will want compenstation ,women , The italians, and one day homosexuals,,trust me that aint gonna happen.The Jews got the compensation while the Holocost survivoprs were still alive,,all of the slaves are aand their children and most of their grandchildren are all gone. If it were given right after or even 40 yrs after I would say yes,,but nope
Chitown Kev
@Jeton Ademaj:
I get where you’re coming from, even though I don’t agree with it. Or, rather, I can’t use that particular word to the same effect, since I’m black…but oh, what I could say…I would never even write it on this board.
As far as I’m concerned though, it is the same thing. And (being black), I’m in a position to say that.
And black people who would defend it and yet decry the use of the n-word in response to a particular individual…I have no use for them.
But not all black people are like that, of course…that’s why there’s such an uproar to see it on this board.
Oh, and the very few times that I use the n-word or the f-word…I do mean it to be deregatory and NEVER as a term of endearment.
will clemens
@Jeton Ademaj:I agree fully with what you said.
Chitown Kev
You know, and I fully get the fact that some black gays may be angry at what I wrote here in this thread, even though they kinda sorta get where I am coming from.
I just have never really been the sorta person that plays the race/sexual orientation hierarchy game. Some of the posters here that know me from Rod 2.0 know that.
Jeton Ademaj
@Chitown Kev: 🙁 i wrote u such a nice long response about the schism of class n economics in the afro-diaspora that led the schism of “n-word’ usage, n the complexities of online forums deciding how free to allow discussions to be, and the browser timed out, nuking it all.
:(anyway, i dont know how sensitive this site’s admin is in general, but most sites fear an automatic Google blacklisting as a ‘hate’ site, so i wouldn’t worry too much about the issue, off-topic to this thread as it is.
Will Clemens: “hmmph!” to your agreement, at least until sound less nutty…and slavery reparations have a far weightier historical salience than any of the other groups you mention. the issue of disbursement would certainly be a complex one (eg who is eligible, how much and any stipulations?), but certainly not insurmountably so. it remains the burden of reparations advocates to answer those questions in a practical way that can be sold politically.
will clemens
@Chitown Kev: chitown, I do understand ,,when the gay movement got sexually crazy back in the late 70’s and and in the 80’s AIDS Killed the men 10 and 20 yrs older than me in mass quanities I went in to panic mode and became celebate and encouraged the gay community to stop going to bath houses , getting drunk and drugged up and fucking every thing in site. It saved my life. I just want other groups to recognize their own flaws and try to fix them instead of gettting angry and pulling the race card or gay card or what ever.
Chitown Kev
@Jeton Ademaj:
But how do you determine who is eligible? For example, at least on my Mom’s side, you back into the 1850’s and 1860’s and that part of the family (black and white) is from England. And what of the financial liability of the Africans who did the selling. Is there a bill of sale, etc.? What of descendents of northern blacks that were never enslaved in the first place?
will clemens
@Chitown Kev: Exactly, that is whay it will never happen.
Chitown Kev
@will clemens:
about the AIDS crisis I completely agree with you…
Chitown Kev
@will clemens:
I get the idea that the enslavement of black people is the big thing behind racism today. But you mean to tell me that an Italian American whose ancestors only came to this country in the 1880’s is also on the hook for reparations? What about the Irish, as you say, who were only a half a step up from black folks?
will clemens
@Chitown Kev: Thank you, I had a hard time talking with friends about their whoring around,,I lost a few friends rto my suggestions and a few to the desease itself,,Most my age lived ,,the men 10 to 20 yrs older were almost all gone.
will clemens
@Chitown Kev:Chitown yes if you read history,,youll find that every group that came over to America had to pay horrible dues,,and women would also deserve reperations,,for not beling allowed the same rights as men because if the mentally ill christianis and their sick book of fables,,women are not to have a voice and a vote is a voice according to Christians of that time. The bible was used again to seperate the races and to go against interacial marriage in the story of The Tower of Bable
Jeton Ademaj
@Chitown Kev: dont get me wrong, it aint my problem n i aint doing much work thinking about it…but various formulas and parameters could certainly be established by a consensus of experts committed to the issue. genetic testing might be used in compliment with birth records and other documentation. one would start with the premise that some rewards would go to the “undeserving” and work to minimize that percentile.
as for bills of sale, it’s my impression that the great bulk of slaves were taken directly by privateers. Tribe A sold Tribes B into slavery, Whitey came for more, Tribe A sold them Tribes C and D, White came for more, Tribe A had no more to sell so Whitey just enslaved Tribe A n then went hunting Tribes E, F, G and so on…this took the mechanization of slavery to the unprecedented levels used to build the New World. am i wrong?
Chitown Kev
@will clemens:
It’s not even the point of who deserves reparations and who doesn’t, from my POV, but how do you assess liability? With what evidence? I mean, most Africans were forcibly brought over here and many died, I am not contesting that and it’s not even up for debate?
I mean, what about the Native Americans that were already here?
I mean, at least with Reagan’s reparations to the japanese-americans, I think that only included japanese-american families that were put in the camps, I believe…it could be quantified.
Chitown Kev
@Jeton Ademaj:
Evidence…I need evidence, bills of sale, certificates of ownership, etc…
Of course, not every white person that was here had slaves and not every black person was a slave (and a very very few blacks even owned slaves)
See how complicated get this in terms of what I think is “fair” and “just”
Chitown Kev
@Chitown Kev:
“certificates of ownership”-actually,that or ledgers…
Jeton Ademaj
@Chitown Kev: my family came here to NYC from Kosova in 1970, and most of my siblings were born overseas. I still partake of the benefits of a society that was built with a horrific degree of uncompensated labor. That is White Privilege I’m more willing to acknowledge and remunerate for, as it remains an outstanding debt of the Society i enjoy living in. I’m less sympathetic to political correctness and tendentious harangues.
the schism is telling here, in my regular experience blacks with more money generally seem more concerned with social niceties like banishing words, and blacks with less are more concerned with reparations.
of course, this is all a tangent of dealing with the peculiar religious fundamentalism of Jamaican society and how it interacts with post-hip-hop global Thug culture to produce the laughably-purported “prophet” of DanceHall culture, Buju Banton, and his murderously homophobic screeds.
supposedly he’s mellower now than when the song was written, so i wonder how useful the hoopla over him is at this point. On the other hand, as an artist i sympathize with the vulnerability artists face from corporate sponsorship via boycott actions, so another concern is that the boycott weapon is overused and eventually becomes useless, especially if it forces hate-based artists to evolve enough to avoid the sting of boycotts altogether.
it’s like using antibiotics, one generally shouldnt overuse them if one values longterm health.
Anthony in Nashville
This thread turned into a mess. No wonder I don’t check the site as often as I used to.
Chitown Kev
@Jeton Ademaj:
damn, I believe you just called me a “bougie”
Chitown Kev
@Anthony in Nashville:
Oh, stop it!
really, everything that needed to be said was said in the first 20 or so posts. then Will came in and dropped his firebombs…etc.
Jeton Ademaj
@Chitown Kev:
wasn’t trying to, but hey, if the Bruno Magli fits 😉
anyway, re: evidence, i think the case will eventually be successfully made that a paper trail is not needed in all cases. i think a multi-disciplinary science-based approach could reach levels of confidence for most reparations-candidates to be politically viable.
Chitown Kev
@Jeton Ademaj:
Ok, let me ask you this…
That you know of, was there the type of ethnic hatred in Tito’s Yugoslavia that broke out once Yugoslavia split up. Do you think that Kosovans (?) should get reparations from the Serbs?
Chitown Kev
@Jeton Ademaj:
I’ve been mistaken for one, at times. Some in my family were (and are), some aren’t, I spent much of my childhood around the family members that are…in that respect, I can “pass” easily…
Jeton Ademaj
@Chitown Kev: actually i do think many Kosovars could make a case for reparations, especially those that appear to have been targeted with nerve gas components by Serbian obstetricians (check out “Kosovo, A Short History” by Noel Malcolm for more) resulting in permanently disabled children.
However, the viability of any of these reparation causes will be judged case-by-case…in Kosova’s case, Serbia is still attempting partition of Kosova while not recognizing the whole, so reparation remains a non-starter there.
will clemens
@Chitown Kev: If you do take reperations from the rest of the nation, think about who sold you, then think about who bought you,( Christians only) So shoud Atheist pay for reperations My Atheist heritage goes back to 2 generations before Mark Twain.( related to Sam Clemens) Should Jews pay,,,who? If the entire nation apys,,then you will be paying for your own reperations. Its never going to happen I am just trying to tell you.
Chitown Kev
@will clemens:
Well, how do you distinguish who comes from a Christian slaveholding family? How many northern Christians never owned a slave…etc.
I’ve taken all that into consideration, mind you. Who is this “you” that you keep to referring to? I know a lot of black people who are not in favor of slave reparations.
The bottom line (getting back to the topic is this)
1) Buju Banton has a right to sing whatever the fuck he wants to sing.
2) Freedom of speech does not mean that you are free from the consequences of your speech, you are responsible for what you say. I have the freedom of speech to say that I find your speech to be abhorrent and vile.
3) Freedom of speech also implies the freedom not to speak. I agree with Rudy, A black person isn’t obligated to say jack shit but…Now whether a black person (or “the black community” or the Jamacian community) has more of a moral obligation to protest Banton’s speech…that’s a different question.
4) But if a black person responds to a gay person’s (of any ethnicity: just because I’m black doen’t mean that I’m immune to another black person throwing the race card at me…I’ve got stories about that) objection to this speech by playing the race card then he needs to be called out for being an ignorant race baiting motherfucker.
will clemens
@Chitown Kev: Yes he has that right be he also puts his life in danger and hopefully some racist or crazy faggot will murder him. That being said I have supported the black community in almost every complaint and endevour,,but always knew in the back of my mind that the majority of blacks( at least in Fl’ Where I grew up) hated faggots.After prop 8, I started to read statistics on the black community and their feeling on homosexuality in detail and after that I was done ,,and I mean done forever supporing thre black community on all fronts… Final .
Chitown Kev
@will clemens:
Well, remember that there is support for the gay community in the black community. Not every black person in California (or Florida) voted for Prop 8. And they didn’t put it on the ballot in the first place.
All I can ask is:
1) Support black gays that don’t enable the black community’s homophobia. There are plenty of us. And…
2) Support black straights that support us, including clergymen. They’ve gotten a backlash from the homobigots in the black community as well.
3) There are plenty of black politicians that support us. The Congressional Black Caucus just received an award from GLAAD, for example. Look at their gay voting record and you’ll see why GLAAD gave them that award. If you are in Massachusetts, you have a very pro-gay governor (though he does lack in other respects).
In short, I wouldn’t ask of you anything that I don’t already do. You can talk to my family about that (esp. the upper middle class cousin of mine who always invites me for the holidays, has offered me a room in his beautiful home in the FAR Northern Detroit suburbs and I won’t see him or call him because of his homophobia).
And I don’t exactly live in or feel a part of what you probably consider to be “the black community” either. And I’ve been that way since looooooooooong before Prop 8.
So I’m not asking you to do anything that I haven’t already done. It’s your decision, of course.
will clemens
I will support any one that climbs on board the gay rights train otherwise, I have to draw a line in the sand I have even gotten rid of cousins,,but I am however disgusted by religion and the silly notion of a god although I do like the Quakers, because of their past stance on interacial marriage and their new stance on gay marriage. I will not fight for the african American Community or women’s rights etc,,because they have all the rights needed to survive ,,we do not. It will be my life goal to help get the entire Nation gay rights,,nothing more nothing less. Every body else will just have to do their own thing