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offending passages

Sir Ian McKellen Is Still Ripping Up The Bible

I do, yes. It’s Leviticus 18:22 that I object to. And I only do it when I’m in a hotel room and there’s a Bible in the drawer next to the bed. I don’t want those nasty, homophobic sentences lying within 12 inches of my head. I’m the sort of person who doesn’t write in ink. I only write in pencil so it can be rubbed out. I never turn down the corner of a book. I respect books, but what I don’t respect is that particular little verse. It’s not the whole of the book. … I don’t mind there being injunctions against eating shellfish or the injunctions against wearing cotton and wool clothing. I only get offended when it suggests that men shouldn’t make love to each other.

—Sir Ian McKellan, whose hotel room behavior is slightly above that of Charlie Sheen

By:           JD
On:           Jan 14, 2011
Tagged: ,
  • 111 Comments
    • MM
      MM

      “slightly above that of Charlie Sheen”

      WTF???

      How dare you comparing Ian McKellen and that asshole?

      Jan 14, 2011 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joe
      Joe

      LOVE him!

      Jan 14, 2011 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hephaestion
      hephaestion

      I tear out Leviticus when I stay in a hotel and see a Bible in the drawer, too. Or I blacken anti-gay lines with a Sharpee pen.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 6:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charlie
      Charlie

      I’m with Ian. He’s not ripping the pages out of Bibles in bookstores, just in places where people are shoving their religion in his face.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 7:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • j
      j

      @MM: So true. They shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 7:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chapeau
      Chapeau

      During my last hotel stay I simply tossed the Gideon out the window into the lake below.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 7:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EdWoody
      EdWoody

      Are you fucking stupid? That’s a picture of William Hurt, not Ian McKellen.

      Queerty, every time I think you’ve hit rock bottom, you manage to find another layer a crap to dig yourselves into.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 7:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      Exactly who is the audience he is addressing? I kind of don’t need more cynicism as i inherently have enough of it inside myself already. Does he think he is being coy or chic or facetious? I am not quite sure but he seems to be very much full of himself whenever i hear him. I will give him some leeway since many gay people, myself included, are on heightened defense alert 24/7.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 8:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @EdWoody: lmao. hahahahahah. That is hysterical. Thank you for making me laugh today. I always thank the person who gives me a good laugh. It’s so important.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 8:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Benjamin
      Benjamin

      I throw out the entire bibble…it’s junk.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 9:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Ed, I think that you might mean John Hurt, not William Hurt. But it is Sir Ian.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 9:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EdWoody
      EdWoody

      @ewe: @Soupy: Yeah, yeah, I realised a second after I’d hit the send button. Mea culpa. I guess I stupidly hoped I’d get away with it. But at least it’s an isolated mistake, not part of a pattern of stupidity like Queerty displays. And whoever it is, that up there is not a picture of Ian McKellen.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 9:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteveC
      SteveC

      The bible is a badly written piece of shit.

      I always steal them from hotels.

      Wiping my ass with pages from stolen bibles is both honorable and environmentally friendly.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 10:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • randy
      randy

      Gosh, and I thought I was the only one who ripped out the pages! Glad to see I have company. We should have a facebook page or something.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 1:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • prohomo
      prohomo

      Amen, Sir Ian. I love that he wrote “I get offended that it says that men shouldn’t make love to each other!” Agreed!

      Jan 15, 2011 at 1:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • REBELComx
      REBELComx

      @Soupy: I don’t know where Queerty got this picture from but Ed’s right (just the wrong name) That is in fact a photo of John Hurt, and not Sir Ian McKellen. Ian’s face isn’t quite as wide in his old age and he rarely wears glasses. The real dead give away though is the two birthmarks on the right side of the chin. Sir Ian doesn’t have those, but John Hurt does.
      So again… that picture is JOHN HURT, not IAN MCKELLEN.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 1:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      Yep, that is John Hurt not Ian McKellan.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 5:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Danny
      Danny

      I think everyone should go through the bible and use a black marker to blacken out all passages you think are bizarre, crazy, or just plain evil. You’d be amazed just how many you encounter throughout the entire book – and it is not just the incest and rape committed by the so-called heroes of the bible. There is some seriously wierd crap in the bible that no sane person would ever believe, much less believe it came from any omniscient supernatural entity.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 5:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DR
      DR

      *sigh*

      I guess everyone has their flaws, Sir Ian…

      Jan 15, 2011 at 7:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • McMike
      McMike

      Here’s the problem with Leviticus:

      The Hebrew term translated to “as with” actually means ‘bed’ every other time it’s used in Leviticus so the correct translation is “A man shall not lay with another man on a woman’s bed.” Leviticus 15 gives a long list of bed issues since a woman’s bed was considered sacred due to her monthly cycle. This passage is also found in the Holiness Code and not the Moral Code and the Hebrew term translated to ‘abomination’, “towebah”, can only be found in the Bible to convey ritually impure offensives. The correct term for a moral abomination, “zimmah”, was not used. The clincher in all this, IMO, is the clobber passage from Corinthians, which is a direct reference to this Leviticus passage, and Paul specifically states “bed” (ie, the translators were able to change the meaning in Leviticus but were unable to do so in Corinthians). The Leviticus passage also comes right after a commandment against sacrificing our children to the god Molech…

      Jan 15, 2011 at 8:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • J
      J

      I’m a preacher’s grandson and a gay man. I consider myself a Christian, and I have no problem with Leviticus.

      Why?

      There is only one unforgivable sin.
      To turn your back upon the face of God.

      If you read The Bible instead of tossing it out the window, you’ll find that God loves us ALL….gay or straight.

      I find it absolutely sickening that some people would defile The Bible by tossing it out the window, using the pages to wipe their ass,or simply tearing out the pages.

      That is WRONG on every level.

      If you don’t want the book in your room, have some respect and just place it outside your door.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 10:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      @J Your comments are so WRONG on every level.

      1) who gives a fuck if you’re a sky pixie shaman’s grandson?
      2) Who gives a fuck you consider yourself a sky pixie worshipper?
      3) Who gives a fuck if almighty YOU have no problem with the homophobia in Leviticus? You’re a prat.
      4) Who gives a fuck if anyone turns “your back on the face of god”- whatever the fuck that insane gibberish actually means?
      5) There is no sky pixie.
      6) Give me some evidence that your sky pixie exists and loves us all, because I can’t see any.
      7) Who cares if you find “it absolutely sickening that some people would defile The Bible by tossing it out the window, using the pages to wipe their ass,or simply tearing out the pages.” I don’t care what you think about it.

      Now get yourself a fucking life, or a nicer religion. Or even better become an adult and find atheism.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 11:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • atheism is prejudice
      atheism is prejudice

      Being degrading and verbally violent, Tallskin2, as you did, doesn’t prove that the other person is wrong about anything.

      Consider this – people here who profess themselves to be atheists consistently engage in abusive, vicious behavior, from using obscenities and throwing temper tantrums, to wishing to oppress eradicate most of humanity. What does that say about atheism?

      You responded with tremendous malice and contempt to someone who was very reasonable, mature, and civil. What does that say about you, and about atheism?

      You make assertions that you cannot substantiate with evidence, yet demand that others “prove” that God exists, knowing full well that whatever proof they provide, you will first reject out of hand, and then use to launch yet another vicious verbal assault.

      Two things are clear: you post solely to abuse people you hate, and, you desperately need the qualities of empathy, compassion, respect, humility, etc – the moral and ethics, that religions teach.

      Atheism is not for adults, as your behavior consistently proves. It is for people who flee responsibility, who flee right and wrong, justice, civility, respect, to embrace their ego at the expense of everyone else. Atheism is a prejudice, and the malicious way its acolytes here on internet behave, day after day, proves it beyond all reasonable doubt.

      Your posts present you as the peer, twin, soul mate of any and every homophobe, tallskin2 – the Maggie Gallagher of spirituality, the Fred Phelps of civility, the Jesse Helms of morals and ethics.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Why does Cassandra need another identity?

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      Good question Soupy

      I am guessing that she uses a different pseudonym according to what medications she’s on at any one moment

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MM
      MM

      “If you read The Bible instead of tossing it out the window, you’ll find that God loves us ALL… gay or straight.”

      Why don’t you tell that to Pope and The Church?

      They use The Bible to preach hatred towards gay people.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • andrew
      andrew

      Atheism never killed people for the sake of a book.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WillBFair
      WillBFair

      Atheism is fine, and christianity is fine.
      What bothers me, though, are nutjob fundamentalists, and the atheists in the gay community who spit venom at liberal christians, some of our best freinds. I think they do it to sabotage our movement by alienating our allies. Or they could be trying to distract attention from the fact that real christians do charity work and defend the oppressed, while atheists do zip.
      Their words and actions are laughable. They claim to be masters of logic, but they don’t see the huge difference between fundies and real christians. And their arguments are based on the most obvious rhetorical tricks: cherry picking, name calling, circular logic, etc…, ad nauseam. Harris and Dawkins’ books are a joke, filled with gross logical errors.
      But you all are going to tell us how to use logic. Please.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      @WillBFair

      I assume you’re a sky pixie worshipper?

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WillBFair
      WillBFair

      @andrew: Love the false conclusion from a gross generalization.
      Like everyone else, atheists kill for land and resources.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      @WillBFair

      are you a sky pixie worshipper or not?

      I think you should come clean for us all

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WillBFair
      WillBFair

      @tallskin2: Sorry. I don’t give personal information to people who name call.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • andrew
      andrew

      @WillBfair

      Lands and resources true, but not because a of book. Even killing each other over the translation and interpretation of the same book.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      WillBFair -Sorry. I don’t give personal information to people who name call.

      Translation: You are a sky pixie worshipper.

      fine, just so we all know where you’re coming from

      Jan 15, 2011 at 12:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • uu
      uu

      @tallskin2: If the venom he just spat is any indication I’d sort him under his own flawed definition of an atheist.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 1:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism kills
      Atheism kills

      Andrew lies, writing: “Atheism never killed people for the sake of a book.”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Religion
      “Stalin followed the position adopted by Lenin that religion was an opiate that needed to be removed in order to construct the ideal communist society. To this end, his government promoted atheism through special atheistic education in schools, massive amounts of anti-religious propaganda, the antireligious work of public institutions (especially the Society of the Godless), discriminatory laws, and also a terror campaign against religious believers. By the late 1930s it had become dangerous to be publicly associated with religion.[89]

      Stalin’s role in the fortunes of the Russian Orthodox Church is complex. Continuous persecution in the 1930s resulted in its near-extinction as a public institution: by 1939, active parishes numbered in the low hundreds (down from 54,000 in 1917), many churches had been leveled, and tens of thousands of priests, monks and nuns were persecuted and killed. Over 100,000 were shot during the purges of 1937–1938.[90] During World War II, the Church was allowed a revival as a patriotic organization, after the NKVD had recruited the new metropolitan, the first after the revolution, as a secret agent. Thousands of parishes were reactivated until a further round of suppression in Khrushchev’s time. The Russian Orthodox Church Synod’s recognition of the Soviet government and of Stalin personally led to a schism with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.

      Just days before Stalin’s death, certain religious sects were outlawed and persecuted. Many religions popular in the ethnic regions of the Soviet Union including the Roman Catholic Church, Uniats, Baptists, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. underwent ordeals similar to the Orthodox churches in other parts: thousands of monks were persecuted, and hundreds of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, sacred monuments, monasteries and other religious buildings were razed.”

      More about Stalin’s crimes:
      “Researchers before the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union attempting to count the number of people killed under Stalin’s regime produced estimates ranging from 3 to 60 million.[92] After the Soviet Union dissolved, evidence from the Soviet archives also became available, containing official records of the execution of approximately 800,000 prisoners under Stalin for either political or criminal offenses, around 1.7 million deaths in the Gulags and some 390,000 deaths during kulak forced resettlement – for a total of about 3 million officially recorded victims in these categories.[93]”

      Communist, formally atheist, China is no better, and we shouldn’t forget the Stasi in Communist East Germany.

      Of course, there are the lone atheist killers too – like the atheist who shot up a progressive, GLBTQ welcoming, Christian church, during a children’s program, killing and wounding a number of people.

      The big difference between Christianity and Atheism, between most religions and atheism, is that atheism has no morality, no ethical code other than the presumption that, like so many other oppressors, everyone else is the world is wrong, and atheists are superior because they say so.

      It is no coincidence that atheists here persistently and consistently employ degradation to articulate their point of view. It is no coincidence that they rely on lies and distortions, misrepresentations and false assertions about subjects they have little to no knowledge or experience of. Homophobes do the same thing. Such behavior is simply symptomatic of prejudice.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 1:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • andrew
      andrew

      Atheism Kills

      And which book did Stalin kill people over?

      Jan 15, 2011 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • andrew
      andrew

      Saying that Atheists have no morals is utterly naive. We are all born with a sense of right and wrong. We don’t need a book to tell us.

      I find the fact that someone can live a good life without harming anyone or anything but will be subjected to the concept of Hell simply because they don’t read a specific book abhorrent.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 1:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Cassandra, what is happening? Why have you cleaved yourself?

      Jan 15, 2011 at 1:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      “Atheism Kills” aka Cassandra, continues to rely on a faulty analogy between Homophobes and Atheists. I spelled that out for Casasandra on another thread, and s/he never refuted it. In fact s/he resorted to name-calling, using the term “spoiled brat” thereby going against his/her own standards for civil discourse. And losing credibility as a Christian who treats others as s/he wants to be treated.

      The one thing that is core to atheism is the lack of belief in god(s). That’s it.

      Cassandra confuses political/econ. ideologies of stalinism, marxism with the lack of belief in god(s). where as the prime focus was on social/economic reform. The end goal was not the creation of an atheistic state, but one where means of production and results of that production would be fairly distributed.

      I’m no marxist, but to cite Stalin as the posterch.ild of atheism is like citing Jim Jones or Pope Benedict XVI as the hero or pinnacle of Christianity.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 2:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      Cassandra’s argument goes like this: Communists suppressed all religions (Christianity included) – therefore Communists were atheists. Communists did bad things – therefore all atheists are terrible.

      There are a couple of logical holes in her argument about the size of the Grand Canyon.

      No religion or philosophy has as much blood on its hands as Christianity. If you want to side up with that Cassandra, it’s your business. But don’t ask the rest of us to drink the Kool-Aid.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 2:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      I’m just concerned about her. She seemed obsessive as herself, but taking on another profile suggests something a little more…disturbed.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 2:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @Soupy: I will defend Cassandra’s honor if not the beliefs. Someone trolled using her name on another thread (it was obviously not Cass. because it was less than 100 words!) and so she decided to change up the screen-names. I think.

      I can not vouch 4 whether or not there is some other aspects of being “disturbed” in play tho’. You may be right.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 2:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism kill
      Atheism kill

      Andrew lied when he misrepresented my argument

      “Saying that Atheists have no morals is utterly naive.”

      What I stated is that atheism has no moral or ethical code. And then what is the response – an attempt to avoid what I actually presented by rebutting something I did not say – an act of deception.

      Is this how one proves that atheism is compatible with ethical or moral behavior?

      “We are all born with a sense of right and wrong. We don’t need a book to tell us.”

      And yet, over and over again, atheists here and elsewhere online demonstrate that they do not listen to that sense of right and wrong. That innate sense of right and wrong that so many atheists ignore, even as they judge everyone else is the world, is not derivable from the primary foundational laws of this physical universe. Natural law, when people try to create a sense of right and wrong by interpreting nature, has led to atrocity and injustice.

      Religions, for example Christianity, teach that the innate sense of right and wrong comes from God.

      “I find the fact that someone can live a good life without harming anyone or anything but will be subjected to the concept of Hell simply because they don’t read a specific book abhorrent.”

      No one can live a truly good life, that’s the point of Christianity and many other religions. The problem is that atheists want their many imperfections, like deceit and hate, to count as good. When Andrew distorted my position, he committed a wrong, he failed to live a good life.

      Atheism has no moral code of its own. It only has one tenet or precept, and that one declares that everyone else in the world is wrong about their own experiences and lives.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 4:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Are you okay Cassandra?

      Jan 15, 2011 at 4:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @ #41 – “Atheists want their many imperfections, like deceit and hate, to count as good.”

      Deceit and hate are not characteristics of all Atheists. They are not characteristics of all Christians.

      Atheists do not believe that Christians (or Buddhists or anyone else) are “wrong about their own experiences and lives,” only about their belief in God.

      For someone very quick to jump on everyone else for alleged inaccuracies, you are certainly full of them yourself.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 4:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism kill
      Atheism kill

      Jeffree

      “”Atheism Kills” aka Cassandra, continues to rely on a faulty analogy between Homophobes and Atheists.”

      It is an accurate comparison that no one has yet honestly refuted. But many, like you Jeffree, have used lies, false accusations, and empty dismissals, to avoid the issue.

      “I spelled that out for Casasandra on another thread, and s/he never refuted it.”

      Unless you added something after the thread dropped into oblivion, you are not telling the truth. How about posting the link, so we can all see if you are fibbing or not, and, if you have added some substantive rebuttal, so I can respond?

      “In fact s/he resorted to name-calling, using the term “spoiled brat” ”

      So, you are lying again. Remember, I explicitly made a distinction between you and your behavior. Pointing out that you are behaving a particular bad way is not “name-calling”. The revealing thing about your personal integrity and morality, is that while I have been called many obscenities, you find no fault with that, but have repeatedly libeled me with false accusations when I criticized your behavior.

      This is an example of an extreme and out of control ego, Jeffree.

      “thereby going against his/her own standards for civil discourse. And losing credibility as a Christian who treats others as s/he wants to be treated.”

      Your lies reveal your purpose, Jeffree. You cannot refute my premise, so you attack my character and credibility instead. Is this how you intend to prove that atheism fosters moral and ethical behavior?

      “The one thing that is core to atheism is the lack of belief in god(s). That’s it.”

      Atheists, like other bigots, insist that their belief ends at its surface, that it has no impact or meaning or consequence beyond its most superficial level. We see this from homophobes all the time. Homophobes insist that their condemnation of our sexuality is not an attack on us, for example, and insist that they are not responsible for driving GLBTQ people to despair and suicide.

      But, as I have pointed out repeatedly, without anyone ever honestly refuting, atheism teaches that God does not exist, but that is a denial of the experiences and testimony of most of humanity. The surface belief arises out of a dehumanizing, ego-driven denial of the character and integrity, the worth, of most other human beings.

      “Cassandra confuses political/econ. ideologies of stalinism, marxism with the lack of belief in god(s).”
      No, but Jeffree lies to avoid facts that are uncomfortable for him.

      The instantiations of atheism as a society witnessed in the 20th century were all oppressive and dehumanizing, all marked by corruption and destruction, brutality and inequality. I did not equate atheism with stalinism or marxism, I noted that atheistic societies were brutal and degrading, oppressive and destructive.

      I point out the brutality of atheistic societies to demonstrate how the fallacy that atheists use to condemn Christianity also condemns atheism as well.

      Rather than acknowledge that the standard atheists criticism of religion also condemns atheism, Jeffree simply lied about my position.

      Which certainly doesn’t indicate that atheism promotes moral or ethical behavior.

      All of which leads to the way justiceontherocks missed the point as well.

      “Cassandra’s argument goes like this: Communists suppressed all religions (Christianity included) – therefore Communists were atheists. Communists did bad things – therefore all atheists are terrible.”

      Not quite. I hope you were not trying to prove that atheists are moral and ethical behavior. My argument is that atheism has, like so many ideologies, beliefs, desires, wants and needs, points of view, been the cause or the excuse for brutality and evil. Just as religion has.

      But, unlike religion, unlike Christianity, atheism has nothing to even suggest that people seek justice, create equality, protect the weak, liberate the oppressed. It has none of that.

      “There are a couple of logical holes in her argument about the size of the Grand Canyon.”

      Remember, it is your argument, and that of atheists as well. Had I presented it as you claim I did, it would have been a nice trap, but I try to avoid such cheap tricks.

      See, atheists pull the fallacy you outlined all the time – it is the foundation of their argument – Some Christians do terrible things, therefore all Christians are evil and Christianity is evil. And homophobes routinely play the same game.

      Yet here you are, claiming it is full of holes when applied to atheism, while atheists use it all the time to excuse their hatred of people of faith.

      At the heart of it is the notion that the actions of some members of a group, any group, define everyone in that group. If some Christians do something bad, all Christians are bad. If some atheists do bad things, all atheists are bad. If some gays do bad things, all gays are bad. That is prejudice.

      And atheism is a prejudice not only because it uses that reasoning, but because it declares that all people of faith, automatically and intrinsically, are wrong about their experiences simply because of who they are, simply because of the group they belong to. After all, atheists accept on faith claims from science that are equally beyond most people’s ability to test and affirm, that are equally if not more incomprehensible. Atheists simply pick and chose based on who is testify.

      “No religion or philosophy has as much blood on its hands as Christianity.”

      So you have no rational argument to present, and hoped that a lie would work instead.

      The interesting thing to me is that once again, atheists here rely on the same tricks and games and tactics that homophobes use: lies, slander and libel, obscenity and verbal abuse, distortions, double standards, character assassination in place of reason, and so on.

      Science teaches that when two events manifest identical results, the same process is most likely involved. Atheism and homophobia manifest the same results – contempt for entire groups of people solely because of their membership in the group, condemnation of all based on the actions of some, desire to oppress, distortion, lies, misrepresentation, verbal and physical abuse, hate speech, rejection of people own testimony about their own lives.

      The same symptoms, the same product, from both atheism and homophobia indicate that they are the same process, just as the fact that homophobia and racism, or homophobia and anti-Semitism share the same symptoms indicates that they also are the same process.

      That process is prejudice. Christianity actually teaches against it, even though many people do not practice that particular teaching. But atheism does not condemn prejudice, it promotes a particular instances of it.

      Another irony – there’s a thread here where folks are taking sides over a song, because it uses the word “fa**ot” – but tallskin2 and company’s “sky pixie” is equivalent in purpose, a way of verbally denigrating and vilifying something of meaning and value to other people, in order to degrade and vilify those people.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 4:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism kill
      Atheism kill

      justiceontherocks

      You wrote: “Atheists want their many imperfections, like deceit and hate, to count as good.”

      “Deceit and hate are not characteristics of all Atheists. They are not characteristics of all Christians.”

      Although I did not use the word “all”, or make the accusation you respond to, you’ve missed the point yet again. Atheists online argue as if whatever they do, however imperfect, is good enough, when it is not. The fact is that every atheist I’ve ever encountered has used deceit to argue in defense of atheism. The fact is that atheists continually manifest hate even as they deny it, and yet, vilify and malign people of faith.

      The fact that you didn’t address the point, but quibbled over a false detail, is meaningful. Y

      “Atheists do not believe that Christians (or Buddhists or anyone else) are “wrong about their own experiences and lives,” only about their belief in God.”

      The belief in God that religious people have is based on their experiences and lives. When atheism insists that God does not exist, it is claiming, without evidence, that my experience of God, the experience of most of humanity of God, is just automatically wrong.

      Homophobes do the same thing to GLBTQ people. We say “We don’t chose to be gay” and homophobes insists “homosexuality is chosen”. We say “I am in love my partner” and they say “homosexuality is just lust”.

      Intrinsic to atheism is the denial of the experiences of all people of faith, because religion, in the very fullest sense, is based on experience.

      And be honest, a dominant claim from atheists is that all people of faith are deluded, mentally ill, feeble-minded, inferior, conned or con artists – that what we say we experience cannot possible be true.

      Why can’t it be true? Because the atheist hasn’t experienced it too, or because the atheist has this or that chain of tortured reasoning that they do not even apply to themselves or atheism.

      “For someone very quick to jump on everyone else for alleged inaccuracies, you are certainly full of them yourself.”

      The fact that you either did not understand what I have been presenting, or misrepresented it for your own purpose, does not reflect on me.

      Why not address the real points I present, instead of your guesses and distortions?

      Could it be that if you actually had to acknowledge what atheism’s sole belief actually says to, and about people of faith, you’d be unable to defend it and still condemn homophobia?

      Homophobes have the same problem – if they have to acknowledge what their belief (homosexuality is sin) actually says to and about GLBTQ people, they (usually) cannot defend it on any moral or ethical basis.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 5:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Oh dear. She’s not okay.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 5:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @Soupy: You’re right. I hope that she can find some peace—clearly she feels the weight of the world on her shoulders.

      If I prayed, I’d ask G~d to help her out. I hope she has people she can turn to for support.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 5:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kev C
      Kev C

      I actually agree with some of what Cassandra is saying in her last post about experiences.

      Jeffree: “it was obviously not Cass. because it was less than 100 words!”

      Oh my…

      Jan 15, 2011 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      Cassandra – of all the people who post on Queerty, no one is more disingenuous than you. No one twists other people’s words as much as you or levels as many accusations without basis in fact as you. Your efforts to equate non-Christians with homophobes are so transparently specious as to be not worth reading. You accuse others of hate yet you spew it yourself.

      Reply if you like. You can be sure I won’t read it.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 5:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism kill
      Atheism kill

      Jeffree

      Just a reminder that your response in post 47 is proof enough that your claims at the start of post 37 were false. Presented with a reasoned argument, you rely on degradation and dehumanization.

      Just like Maggie Gallagher and her peers.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 5:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WillBFair
      WillBFair

      Last word, darlings.
      Atheism is fine, and liberal christianity is fine. I think the fight between them was manufactured by corporate power, who hired Harris and Dawkins to divide these natural allies.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 5:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism kill
      Atheism kill

      “Cassandra – of all the people who post on Queerty, no one is more disingenuous than you.”

      Without detailed examples, that is just an abusive and derogatory dismissal, justiceontherocks.

      “No one twists other people’s words as much as you or levels as many accusations without basis in fact as you.”

      Without detailed examples, that is just an abusive and derogatory dismissal, justiceontherocks.

      I presented a carefully written reply to your remarks, you reply by attacking my character instead.

      “Your efforts to equate non-Christians with homophobes are so transparently specious as to be not worth reading.”

      If that were true, then you would not have needed to vilify me personally. You could have taken the high road, you could have modeled integrity and ethical behavior, and simply pointed out all of flaws you perceived in premise.

      Instead, you present an empty and derogatory dismissal which is, itself, example of the very thing I have pointed out. Make a real effort to prove that my premise false. Take on the actual arguments I have used, the parallels between atheism and homophobia, the implicit meaning of atheism’s sole belief, and prove me wrong.

      At least try.

      “Reply if you like. You can be sure I won’t read it.”

      Which simply tells everyone else that you cannot refute my position. Moreover, it affirms my premise. You won’t bother to be civil, to make the same level of effort to converse that I have, you won’t defend your position, only use it to malign others.

      Look, you and your peers here get mad, insult me, dismiss me, when I make the case that atheism is a prejudice. Homophobes do the same thing when I, or anyone else, make the case that their beliefs about GLBTQ people is a prejudice. They use obscenity, atheists here use obscenity. Homophobes denigrate homosexuals with insults, atheists denigrate people of faith with insults.

      So how exactly does behaving as any homophobe behaves refute my premise that homophobia and atheism are alike?

      Jan 15, 2011 at 5:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      Oh dear, cassandra’s medication has

      1) kicked in

      or

      2) worn off

      I am not sure which is which. But she’s like Jekyll and Hyde. During the day she is a quiet respectable little old lady.

      Then after night has fallen she changes personality.

      She becomes ………. evil.

      You can tell because the number of words related to the thoughts being expressed expands like exploding foam from a vat.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 6:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @Tallskin2 – she reminds me of the former governor of Alaska: makes a bunch of nonsense arguments then accuses everyone who disagrees of being dishonest and hateful.

      Another useless internet troll hurts her own cause every time she gets near a keyboard.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 6:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @Cassandra: I hope you’re getting lots of support IRL. This internet can be soul crushing.

      My statement in #46 was heartfelt. You cited 47, which was not me.

      I am not your enemy. I may disagree with you, but that’s not the same thing. You used to be exceptionally civil and I miss seeing that side of you.

      Please take care of yourself.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 6:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The other "Jason"
      The other "Jason"

      Frankly, all of you are mad. But this contemptible “Atheism Kills” rat must be silenced. Since the alleged medications don’t appear to be working, perhaps a series of bludgeons would work wonders?

      Jan 15, 2011 at 6:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism kill
      Atheism kill [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Jeffree

      Post 46 is actually worse than post 47, condescending, presuming that I lack peace. Just FYI. And your post 54 is equally condescending, a back-handed way of attacking my mental health.

      My soul isn’t threatened by the internet.

      “You used to be exceptionally civil and I miss seeing that side of you.”

      I remain exceptionally civil, particularly in comparison to you and your peers. Your personal prejudice is clouding your perception.

      When, exactly, are you going to acknowledge that you repeatedly falsely accused me of name-calling? Are you going to acknowledge that the sexist obscenities directed at me, repeatedly, by your peers, are out of line? Or that you are demonstrating a double standard in your choice of complaints – silent when I am called a derogatory, sexist obscenity, vociferously complaining when your behavior is criticized?

      In the meantime, if anyone else has any doubts just how ugly atheism is at its heart, what it really offers people of faith, The Other Jason makes it explicitly clear:

      “But this contemptible “Atheism Kills” rat must be silenced.”

      The Other Jason declares: Anyone who does not give in to atheism must be silenced, anyone who criticizes it, must be silenced.

      Atheism is a prejudice.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 7:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @Cassandra: No condescension is/was intended. It’s regrettable that you can’t see that. You’ll see what you seek.
      Take care of yourself.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 7:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The other "Jason"
      The other "Jason"

      @ Atheism Kills – I didn’t “declare” that all. You, however, are declaring everything I need to know in your user name. So, please, don’t try to speak to me about absurd declarations when you make it a point to have a name like that.

      That being said, religion is what kills and has killed, in that people have been killed and oppressed in the name of religion *directly,* and continue to be so.

      I see atheism as *resistance and defense* against the religious domination that unfortunately characterizes life and is responsible for so much hatred and ignorance.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 8:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice
      Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice

      Jeffree

      Instead of worrying so much about me personally, why not make an honest effort to rebut the material I presented? You made claims, you should back them up or retract them.

      The Other “Jason”

      Your words are explicit and clear – a threat as a response to criticism of atheism. Homophobes routinely demand that GLBTQ people be silent, so how is your demand any different?

      Your complaint about my id is pointless, I demonstrated quite well that people have been killed as an expression of atheism.

      Issuing derogatory rhetoric won’t make your threat go away, nor will your distortions and lies.

      “That being said, religion is what kills and has killed, in that people have been killed and oppressed in the name of religion *directly,* and continue to be so.”

      No, hate and egotism kill, and hate and egotism can use anything, including science and religion, art and philosophy, commerce and medicine, to kill. Prejudice kills, and atheism is a prejudice.

      “I see atheism as *resistance and defense* against the religious domination that unfortunately characterizes life and is responsible for so much hatred and ignorance.”

      How you see atheism is ironic though, because homophobes see their prejudice as “resistance and defense” against immorality and a threat to society that “unfortunately characterizes life and is responsible for so much hatred and ignorance”.

      In other words, your vision of atheism matches homophobes’ vision of homophobia. See, homophobes also construct worldviews where the people they hate are responsible for everything wrong and bad and terrible, just as you are doing. It is just a way to feel justified in harming people.

      Religion is not responsible for hatred and ignorance, for non-religious people like you and tallskin2 have demonstrated incredible skill in both attribute.

      Religion, like just about everything else known to man, is just something that people consumed by hate and egotism use to conceal or at least pretty up, their hate and egotism. The reality is that the more valuable or meaningful something is, the more likely someone will try to use it to veneer their hate and egotism. Religions are very meaningful to most people, so people consumed by hatred and egotism have used religion to candy-coat their actions and words.

      People driven by hate have used science to make hate look acceptable, as with eugenics. Such people have used the instinctual bond to one’s family and friends to veneer hate, playing social bonds to ostracize and dehumanize those deemed “other”. Look at any stupid argument about popular media, and you’ll find people using music, or literature, to make their hate seem less ugly. It is very difficult to find anything that someone, somewhere, some when, has not used to pretty up their hatred of someone else.

      Religions, (in general because somewhere there may be an exception) teach compassion and empathy, mutuality and equality, justice and mercy, honesty, honor and integrity. Do people fail to manifest those traits completely? Sure. But religion teaches them to continually strive to be better today at those traits than they were yesterday.

      Atheism teaches nothing but ego and contempt, which feed hate and ignorance.

      So keep in mind that while you demand that I be silenced, I have patiently addressed your derogatory claims without issuing even one demand comparable to your own. I have not called you contemptible, or labeled you vermin, though you did both to me.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 9:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The other "Jason"
      The other "Jason" [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @Atheism Kills – Well, I’ve said what I had to say, and know better than to get involved in a discussion/argument like this. Just as I’m sure my comment(s) won’t sway your opinions, rest assured that what you just wrote won’t sway mine.

      I personally hope atheism/secularism, or anything that challenges religious domination, continues to do what it has done in opposing the ingrained bigotry and ignorance that comes from organized religion. I’m very glad that religion is disputed and questioned, and hopefully it will continue to be exposed as the primary source of bigotry, hatred, and ignorance that it is and, for the most part, always has been. I like hearing about individuals who challenge religion and all its many horrid, negative trappings. And I’m sorry you don’t agree with me about that.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 9:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice
      Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice [Different person #1 using similar name]

      The other “Jason”

      “Well, I’ve said what I had to say, and know better than to get involved in a discussion/argument like this. Just as I’m sure my comment(s) won’t sway your opinions, rest assured that what you just wrote won’t sway mine.”

      So, basically, you are just maligning people gratuitously – for fun?

      “I personally hope atheism/secularism, or anything that challenges religious domination, continues to do what it has done in opposing the ingrained bigotry and ignorance that comes from organized religion.”

      Nice fantasy there, but that is not the role atheism or secularism has played. The overwhelming majority of opposition to homophobia, and racism, and sexism, and other ingrained prejudiced and ignorance, has come from progressive or liberal (of their day) people of faith.

      That is, people of faith trying to practice those religious values like equality and compassion, more than they are/were by the mainstream.

      “I’m very glad that religion is disputed and questioned,”
      Maggie Gallagher, no doubt, feels the same way about homosexuality.

      “and hopefully it will continue to be exposed as the primary source of bigotry, hatred, and ignorance that it is”

      Your wish is based on a lie. The primary source of bigotry and hatred is simply the human heart, while ignorance is the result of lack of education or experience.

      Atheism is a prejudice, and as prejudices are cured, like racism and homophobia, atheism will become something few people find a need for.

      “I like hearing about individuals who challenge religion and all its many horrid, negative trappings. And I’m sorry you don’t agree with me about that.”

      Maggie Gallagher, no doubt, says the same thing about homosexuality. Many homophobes have told me that they are sorry that I don’t agree with their anti-gay theology, their false and derogatory claims about GLBTQ people, their opposition to same-sex marriage.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 9:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nathan
      Nathan

      @Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice: You are a grade A idiot, just because an argument is put forth to oppose homosexuality doesn’t mean the argument is invalid when used for any subject matter ever.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 12:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice
      Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice [Different person #2 using similar name]

      Nathan

      Wrote: “You are a grade A idiot,”

      By using an attack on my intelligence as your opening statement, you indicate that your own argument cannot stand on its own.

      “just because an argument is put forth to oppose homosexuality doesn’t mean the argument is invalid when used for any subject matter ever.”

      So? I never said it was. You’ve missed the point pretty completely, which makes your attempt to insult my intelligence more than a little ironic.

      What I have said is that both atheism and homophobia share the same symptoms, including:
      hate speech
      lies and distortions
      fraudulent assertions
      fallacious arguments
      double-standards
      and most importantly
      a complete dismissal of the testimony and experiences of a group of people
      negative judgment of all members of a group based on the actions of some
      negative judgment of all members of a group based on their membership in the group

      Atheism fits the definition of prejudice, and it manifests in the same symptoms, the same behaviors and attitudes, as other prejudices, particularly homophobia.

      And I have pointed out that the deep and miserable parallel between the way homophobes and atheists defend their belief should at least make GLBTQ atheists think about what they are doing and saying. It ought to concern them that in order to express their belief regarding religion, they have to sound like, and act like, the people who oppress GLBTQ people.

      Derogatory and abusive dismissals, like the one you provided, Nathan, do not create a substantive rebuttal to any position. You would not be swayed by someone calling you names, why do you think I will be?

      But that’s just it, isn’t it? You know your insults won’t actually strengthen your position, or make it more convincing to me or anyone else.

      As with your peers, your use of insults is just gratuitous noise, unleashed for the unhealthy satisfaction of being abusive and rude in a situation where you will not be held accountable.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 1:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      Cassandra, do please give it a fucking rest

      You cannot imagine how boring you and your mad rants are.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 5:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike in London UK
      Mike in London UK

      Having had the pleasure to be in the presence of Sir Ian, (or Serena to his very good friends), I have to say that I have nothing but the very highest respect for him.

      He stands in front of several hundred avid movie buffs and gives an off the cuff lecture on tolerance and acceptance and gets nothing but a rounding stand up minutes long applause session.

      Thats pure magic.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 6:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      May I observe that Cassandra Kills Atheists argues like a Jesuit without impugning her character or triggering yet another “anti” rant of interminable duration?

      Jan 16, 2011 at 7:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      Why do we hate (yes, hate) the church? Vhttp://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/01/this-week-in-holy-crimes.html

      This is only the past week. This is why people are ready to say “Fuck Religion.”

      Atheists Kill Cassandra is a skilled debater, yet when the dry dust of her rants settles, it’s the torn rags of another defenseless victim that speaks the quiet truth. S/he excuses these predators as irrelevant simply because they’re using religion in their depravity as an excuse.

      All the Meanies of history use religion as an excuse to wage wars and murder people of differing beliefs, they’re really only after the silverware. Tell it to the Cathars, Palestinians, Copts, Christians and Atheists, I know they’re waiting for an explanation for the genocides and pogroms. Not to mention the despicable preying on their children.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 7:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      Declanto – “Cassandra argues like a Jesuit”

      No, that’s simply not true. The jesuits are intelligent.

      Misguided, but intelligent

      Cassandra is simply misguided

      Jan 16, 2011 at 7:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      @tallskin2: Picky, picky.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 7:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      Declanto – you’re just being mean and cruel to poor cassandra. Because you know your comments are like a red rag to a mad bull.

      She just cannot help herself. She’ll be back very soon on here …

      Ironic that she chooses the name of a trojan PAGAN soothsayer. But then christianity is a made up, composite religion, stolen from bits of other religions that the christians then destroyed in order to hide the evidence of what they’d done.

      (now I’ve lit the blue touch paper I shall sit back and await the frothing mad response)

      Jan 16, 2011 at 8:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The other "Jason"
      The other "Jason" [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @tallskin2: Is egging her/him/it on really the best thing to do? She’s already revealed that she is highly unstable.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 8:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      Alas, poor Cassandra! Blind yet seeing, Condemned to ridicule and disbelief. I feel like I’m poking a viper with a stick.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 8:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      There is a medication called Seroquel that I think would be helpful.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 9:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism poisons society
      Atheism poisons society

      Declanto

      “Why do we hate (yes, hate) the church? Vhttp://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/01/this-week-in-holy-crimes.html

      This is only the past week. This is why people are ready to say “Fuck Religion.” ”

      To which one can reply by posting the latest crime committed by some people of color to justify racism, or the latest crime committed by some GLBTQ person to justify homophobia. You hate the church, Declanto, because you need someone to hate in order to feel good about yourself.

      “Atheists Kill Cassandra is a skilled debater, yet when the dry dust of her rants settles,”

      Dismissing my material as ‘rants’ simply indicates that you cannot refute anything I have presented.

      “S/he excuses these predators as irrelevant simply because they’re using religion in their depravity as an excuse.”

      I have not excused these predators, you post that lie because you have nothing accurate or honest to present in rebuttal.

      The sad irony is that you are making excuses for your hate, using the wrongdoing of some people to vilfiy millions of people, and in doing so, you are committing a grievous wrong as well.

      “All the Meanies of history use religion as an excuse to wage wars and murder people of differing beliefs, they’re really only after the silverware.”

      The truth is that all wars have been over material goods and resources, or over human resources. Do you also hate the truth, Declanto?

      The verbal abuse that you and your peers, or sock puppets, engage in, only serves to confirm that atheism is a prejudice. You sound exactly like every homophobe, and it is unlikely that I am the only GLBTQ person who notices that terrible parallel.

      Your insults, of course, are not presented to be convincing arguments, they are simply acts of low-key sadism, the equivalent of the child in a car on the freeway who makes obscene gestures to people in other cars, knowing he’ll never get in trouble for it. You act atrociously because you enjoy it and know you’ll never be accountable.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 10:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Queer Supremacist - KKKristianity Kills Kweers
      Queer Supremacist - KKKristianity Kills Kweers

      I am a Jew who would rather be in the presence of an atheist than a KKKristian. Why? Because when you look at history, on whose hands do you find the majority of our blood? You guessed it, KKKristians and Muslims. Stalin may have been an atheist, but so was Ayn Rand. To date no one has been murdered in her name. Furthermore, Communism, like fascism and Nazism, echoes many of the worst aspects of religion but replaces worship of God with worship of the state.

      Cassandra, get the fuck off this website before someone tracks you down and presents you with the cunt punt you so richly deserve.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 11:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      I think that she suffers from a mental illness, and as such, should be encouraged to seek treatment. Scorn will only reinforce the problem.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 11:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • REBELComx
      REBELComx

      Can we skip the atheism Vs Christianity argument and get to the real problem here? THAT PICTURE IS NOT IAN MCKELLEN!!! IT’S JOHN HURT. GO AHEAD, GOOGLE IMAGES OF JOHN HURT, THIS AND OTHER PICTURES OF HIM IN THE SAME OUTFIT SHOW UP. GRANTED THE TWO ACTORS KIND OF LOOK ALIKE, BUT GET YOUR AGED BRITISH ACTORS STRAIGHT (or as straight as you can with these two)!!!

      Jan 16, 2011 at 12:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      @Atheism poisons society: But, dear Poison, we’re NOT discussing persons of color, we’re speaking of persons of religion. I feel quite comfortable with myself, however you’d like to skew that and commit me to everlasting guilt trips, dear Poison.

      As far as refuting any or all of your rants, raves, or other qualified or unqualified statements, I have no need to, or really desire to further entangle myself in your self-justified condemnation of any and all difference of point of view.

      As I stated previously, you’re a skilled debater and quite capable of turning me or any of the sundry debaters here on this site topsy-turvy. Even so, you’ll NEVER disprove the crimes of organised religion that you excuse as mere opportunists.

      How pathetic that you think all these Atheists are evil simply because they reject the common experiences of such a VAST segment of humanity. If this truly constitutes evil, then the world is flat, disease is caused by maleficent spirits, earthquakes are Poseidon’s constipation, and Westboro’s Baptist church is correct in saying it’s all because us homos are so beloved in AMERIKA.
      How tedious for you to juggle all this with your delusional GODSPEAK.

      Still, I’m intrigued as to how you view Bin Ladin, the Cathar extermination, the Pograms, the Holocaust, etcetera…still waiting a coherent response…

      Jan 16, 2011 at 5:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      @Atheism poisons society:
      “Your insults, of course, are not presented to be convincing arguments, they are simply acts of low-key sadism, the equivalent of the child in a car on the freeway who makes obscene gestures to people in other cars, knowing he’ll never get in trouble for it. You act atrociously because you enjoy it and know you’ll never be accountable.”
      Wherein your own insults (too numerous to itemize) are more akin to the drive-by shooter. Waiting a coherent response…

      Read more: http://www.queerty.com/sir-ian-mckellen-is-still-ripping-up-the-bible-20110114/#ixzz1BEtDRleo

      Jan 16, 2011 at 5:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      The truth is that all wars have been over material goods and resources, or over human resources. Do you also hate the truth, Declanto?

      Read more: http://www.queerty.com/sir-ian-mckellen-is-still-ripping-up-the-bible-20110114/#ixzz1BEvt5lg0@Atheism poisons society:

      How can you possibly avoid the obvious contradictions of this is light of 9/11? What possible economic, resource,territorial gain could Osama Bin Ladin have had in mind?

      Jan 16, 2011 at 5:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      excuse me, “In light of 9/11…”

      Jan 16, 2011 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      I don’t think there is anything wrong with having the belief that one is free to believe whatever they want but please keep it to yourself. What in the world do religious people feel when they have to go out and push their own lifestyles on others who obviously are not interested? They grovel around with doomsday messages and ultimatums in the hopes of pushing their gODD concepts.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 5:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      Oh, and…
      http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/afa-blog-its-not-genocide-if-god-tells-you-do-it

      Just because it’s in the bible… you all NEED to get RELIGIOUS, HAR-DE-HAR-HAR!! Dedicated to Miss Cassandra Poisoned Society

      Jan 16, 2011 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      @ewe: Dear EWE, Cassandra for all her other faults, is NOT a groveler :-D

      Jan 16, 2011 at 6:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @declanto: I never said SHE was. (Wink)

      Jan 16, 2011 at 6:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      I think that she deserves our sympathy and our help. Isn’t that what a social network is for?

      Jan 16, 2011 at 6:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      @Soupy: You’re right, and i feel like a cur for poking at her, but she needs the definition. And maybe a cuppa tea :-D

      Jan 16, 2011 at 6:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Let’s be gentle and helpful. I have a few mental health websites that I think will be helpful. It makes me feel so good to help others!

      Jan 16, 2011 at 6:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hotone2me
      hotone2me

      Very Dead Poets Society!!!

      Love it!!!!

      Jan 16, 2011 at 8:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ronsfo
      ronsfo

      Books aren’t sacred, only people are.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 8:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • adman
      adman

      @atheism is prejudice: Cassandra is taking her webtard-Apologetics class seriously this time by going viral. “Atheism is Prejudice” Will begin to offer agruments that Atheism is actually akin to homophobia, er, or something in exactly 3, 2, 1, …That’s if she hasn’t already. What is the attraction to lies and spin that reading about Jesus seems to create to people?

      Jan 16, 2011 at 11:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Haven’t you seen the movie “Carrie”?

      Jan 16, 2011 at 11:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Lock someone in a prayer closet for long enough and they will develop telekinetic powers. And a nasty psychosis.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 11:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice
      Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice [Different person #3 using similar name]

      Queer Supremacist – KKKristianity Kills Kweers

      “I am a Jew who would rather be in the presence of an atheist than a KKKristian.”

      Ah, because the atheists under Stalin were so tolerant of Judaism. And bearing in mind, anti-gay theology has its roots in Judaic texts. Your post simply demonstrates what has been proven already – even people from oppressed minorities can be bigots. Your use of obscenity is simply proof that you are posting from malice and ill-will, rather than rational thought or decency.

      Declanto

      “But, dear Poison,”

      Starting off with a personal attack. You must not have a real point to make.

      “we’re NOT discussing persons of color, we’re speaking of persons of religion.”

      Are you unfamiliar with the function of a comparison? In both cases, I at least, am talking about human beings, and a principle applied to them.

      “I feel quite comfortable with myself, however you’d like to skew that and commit me to everlasting guilt trips, dear Poison.”

      Oh, if you were truly comfortable, you would not be relying on personal attack, nor would you be relying on dismissals and dodging, nor would you have raised the issue at all, even to create a false accusation.

      “As far as refuting any or all of your rants, raves, or other qualified or unqualified statements, I have no need to, or really desire to further entangle myself in your self-justified condemnation of any and all difference of point of view.”

      In other words, you cannot. All you can do is offer empty, derogatory dismissals. The implicit message in your statement above is that you are not here to engage in dialogue, but to be abusive and degrading. How that is supposed to demonstrate that atheism actually does encourage moral behavior, is not clear.

      “Even so, you’ll NEVER disprove the crimes of organised religion that you excuse as mere opportunists.”

      Since I do not excuse any of the wrongs committed in the name of religion, but strongly rebuke them, your assertion above is pointless grandstanding. Rather than even attempt to refute what I actually did present – that religion, like just about everything else, has been used as an excuse, by some people to justify horrific actions – you present a diversion instead.

      I suppose we could just apply your premise then, that the crimes committed by some religious people condemn religion itself, and all religious people, to everyone else and everything else.

      For example, some scientists falsified data and reported that vaccines caused autism. As a result, millions of parents refused to vaccinate their children for childhood diseases, some of which can be fatal, while others can cause life-long disabilities. It was done for personal profit. By the premise used by atheists to condemn religion, science is condemned as well.

      “How pathetic that you think all these Atheists are evil”
      And yet, I have posted no such thing. The true pathos lies in your need to rely on false claims, deception and deceit, to advance your case, or entertain yourself at the expense of others, as the case may be.

      “simply because they reject the common experiences of such a VAST segment of humanity. If this truly . . .”

      Being sarcastic, and making false comparisons, is not a particularly effective communication technique, particularly when it serves as a replacement for a honest rebuttal of the points I actually presented.

      “How tedious for you to juggle all this with your delusional GODSPEAK.”

      Ah yes, another insult, because the best way to prove that you actually know what you are talking about, is to call someone else “delusional”. How exactly that is going to refute my assertion that atheism manifests in the same behaviors of homophobes, who routinely use the label “delusional” to refer to GLBTQ people, is unclear.

      “Wherein your own insults (too numerous to itemize) are more akin to the drive-by shooter. Waiting a coherent response…”

      When someone cannot make the effort to substantiate their accusation, it is clear that their accusation is pure fiction. Dismissing everything I have presented so far as not coherent will not fool anyone. And if one were to diagram your paragraphs and sentences, the result would not be flattering for you.

      “How can you possibly avoid the obvious contradictions of this is light of 9/11? What possible economic, resource,territorial gain could Osama Bin Ladin have had in mind?”

      So, according to your premise, the U.S. has not been economically exploiting the resources of the Middle East for decades? And the Taliban and Al-Quaida have not been trying to gain control of the considerable oil resources, mineral wealth, and the human resources of Afghanistan, Iraq, etc? And there is not, despite all reports, horrific poverty in the regions exploited by the Taliban and Al-Quaida, and other terrorist groups? Experts on the Middle East from around the world are all wrong, you just know better – is that it?

      The “obvious contradiction” your speak of a construct of your imagination, and is not based on the facts of the conditions in the Middle East. Have you been listening to Rush Limbaugh?

      Ewe

      You wrote: “What in the world do religious people feel when they have to go out and push their own lifestyles on others who obviously are not interested?”

      What in the world do anti-religious people feel when they have to go out and push their own lifestyles on others who obviously are not interested?

      Why do atheists have to post their hatred for most of society to every religious themed thread that comes along? Is it guilt? Is it insecurity? Is it sadism?

      Jan 17, 2011 at 12:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 26 · tallskin2 wrote, “@WillBFair I assume you’re a sky pixie worshipper?”

      Hey, Hector Berlioz was an atheist but that didn’t stop him from writing a lot of church music – he liked to write compositions for very large orchestras (and maybe a chorus or two). His requiem is a good example – only a national-level state function or a major religious event could justify the expenditure of hiring several times the number of musicians you typically need.

      He claimed he had been a devout Catholic as a child for a full 7 years (probably the first 7 of his life, at which point he figured out what they were actually saying).

      See http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/2009/whatson/notes/p24_berlioz.shtml
      His father was an atheist, and probably had an influence on him in that regard.

      Jan 17, 2011 at 2:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 3 · hephaestion wrote, “I tear out Leviticus when I stay in a hotel and see a Bible in the drawer, too.”

      Why? the possibly homophobic passages are only a few lines long out of the entire thing, and those may not mean what they seem.

      As one person pointed out, it could simply mean that you shouldn’t have sex with a man in a woman’s bed. The passage is textually very close to ones about not worshiping certain pagan deities, and the worship of those deities involved sex with male temple prostitutes. They may have been trying to make sure someone wouldn’t try to get out of trouble for doing that by saying, “oh, I was just there to get off,” when the real reason was that the guy didn’t want to put all his eggs in one basket.

      If you look at a word-by-word literal translation of the original Hebrew, the only sound conclusion is that nobody has a clue as to what these guys were really babbling about. It could just as well have said, “For ye who say ‘Hey Sailor’ are condemned by the gods.” A lot of cultural context is missing.

      Jan 17, 2011 at 2:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      @Atheism like homophobia is a prejudice: “Starting off with a personal attack. You must not have a real point to make.”
      Because I refer to you by a name you’ve deliberately chosen to represent yourself, you presume to be under personal attack, therefore there is no point to my response.
      How prescient of you. Is this one of your divine gifts?

      By assuming the role of victim, you grant yourself immunity from unavoidable conclusions, the current and historical crimes committed in the name of pretend Gods and their diverse organised religions.

      Your blanket statement on another thread is that Atheists are evil, their practices are all evil.One insult among many. Your deconstruction of my verbal skills and sentence constructions, etc. “are not flattering” Another point for you, and shows that you rely on technique rather than truth. You tell me I’m a hateful person because I disagree with you.

      The exploitation in the middle east is historically the result of a backward religion that has no mechanism to allow for renewal. It is feudal in nature and relies on repression to perpetuate ignorance and poverty. Bin Laden is a religious fanatic.
      And, sorry to dwell on it, but…what about those Cathars???

      Jan 17, 2011 at 5:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      The sudden bifurcation of identities suggests a dissociative disorder. I will find another helpful website to post.

      Jan 17, 2011 at 10:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      @Soupy: Thank you for your concern on behalf of Cassandra, our dearly loved word-maven.

      Jan 17, 2011 at 1:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      If someone had helped Jared get help and treatment, we wouldn’t have had the tragedy that we did. We are all responsible for each other, which is why I feel obligated to reach out to Cassandra.

      Jan 17, 2011 at 1:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @Soupy: Ya know, i do not think there is anything wrong or ill about Cassandra just because she picks apart Scripture. Lots of very well intentioned people do that and Cassandra has not gone around saying that the purpose of religion is to persecute gay people like some right wing wankers i read about. As a matter of fact she comes to the aid of gay people very often using scripture itself to throw back into the faces of those that use it against us. Having said that, the only problem i have ever had with Cassandra is when she implies that everyone should take religion as seriously as she does. Well i personally don’t. I think it is very dated and distorted. I also do not care if she has a problem with that but i refuse to call her mentally incapacitated and do not think anyone else should either. Has anyone ever met her? Are all those nasty comments coming from an informed psychiatric analysis? NO.

      Jan 17, 2011 at 5:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Can you please pick out the quote wherein I called her “mentally incapacitated”? The fact that you find any discussion of mental health conditions “nasty” indicates a discomfort with such subjects. Why?

      Jan 17, 2011 at 6:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 105 · ewe wrote, “Having said that, the only problem i have ever had with Cassandra is when she implies that everyone should take religion as seriously as she does. Well i personally don’t. I think it is very dated and distorted. I also do not care if she has a problem with that but i refuse to call her mentally incapacitated and do not think anyone else should either.”

      While the exchange happened in comments on a different article, Cassandra once claimed she(?) doubted that I had graduated from middle school for disagreeing with her on a subject that that I had studied in graduate school even though she(?) was obviously clueless on this subject. While I might not use the term “mentally incapacitated” (Soupy didn’t either – he suggested something a bit less extreme), she(?) does seem to have “issues.”

      Jan 17, 2011 at 9:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Queer Supremacist
      Queer Supremacist

      @Dumb Anti-Atheist Bigot Breeder Bitch: I’ll see your Joseph Stalin and raise you a Theodosius II. And a Tomas de Torquemada. And don’t forget the impending gay genocide in Uganda being promoted by — you guessed it — KKKristians.

      Jan 18, 2011 at 12:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      @ewe: Cassandra is on a campaign against differing opinion. She’s now hopped to another thread, about the Poop. She may be going viral.

      Jan 18, 2011 at 5:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • prohomo
      prohomo

      @Danny: So true.

      Jan 18, 2011 at 12:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kachoo
      kachoo

      “Stalin followed the position adopted by Lenin that religion was an opiate that needed to be removed in order to construct the ideal communist society. To this end, his government promoted atheism through special atheistic education in schools, massive amounts of anti-religious propaganda, the …”

      Zzzzz, still rolling out that old chestnut about Stalin. He killed people because he was an asshole. If atheists in general are so lacking in moral judgement, why is it that they are such a miniscule percentage of the prison population? Disproportionate to their percentage of the general population? When was the last time an atheist flew a plane in to the building in the name of atheism? Or blew up an abortion clinic, or burned witches at the stake, or engaged in crusades? There is a indirect relationship between religiousity and education. That is to say, the higher a person’s education level, the less religious they are. Religions are ALL failed sciences. They made sense in the bronze age, they make no sense in the information age which is why they are dying out. The hotbeds of religion today are the areas of the world with large populations of poor and uneducated people. It’s not exactly a shock that the US is the ONLY Western/developed nation that has such a large religious population. There are, especially in the south of the US, very large numbers of poor and working poor completely lacking knowledge of scientific fundamentals. Everywhere else in the West, religion is on the wane. The reason the Catholic church is so against birth control is that, like every MLM money making scam, it’s about MARKET SHARE. The more you can recruit to your money making scam and the more your existing customers breed the larger your market share. Every one of these religions is a giant mind-fuck pyramid scam. If you’re lucky to be the guy at the top of the pyramid, you get to live in Vatican City or be transported in private jets and chauffeur driven limos. The clever part about religion though is that what the con artists are selling is a memetic virus. Unlike a tupperware or Amway MLM, there is no product to manufacture. The product is a figment of the imagination and, when you think about it, this is the most diabolically brilliant business of all. All this to say that you will not find a christian in who actually lives according to the teachings of the Old Testament. When you ask them why they eat pork, or wear cotton with non-cotton fibers, or if they stone their kids if the kids talk back to them, they always say ‘that’s in the Old Testament. Jesus made it so that we don’t need to follow those rules’, yet these are the same people who piss and moan about the 10 commandments being in courthouses and of course the bizarre obsession with the Old Testament’s ‘teachings’ regarding homosexuality. Isn’t it nice to just cherry-pick and apply what you like and don’t like about your religion?

      “The big difference between Christianity and Atheism, between most religions and atheism, is that atheism has no morality, no ethical code other than the presumption that, like so many other oppressors, everyone else is the world is wrong, and atheists are superior because they say so.”

      NO. You know NOTHING about atheism. There is no book of ‘atheist beliefs’ because atheism is simply a REJECTION OF THE GOD HYPOTHESIS. You, presumably, reject the hypothesis that Vishnu or Shiva exist, correct? So with respect to Vishnu and Shiva, you are an atheist. If you believe in Yahweh the bronze age hebrew mountain god, then you are choosing to believe in one out of the many god hypotheses that have been presented to you. The difference between atheisn and most religions is that ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION. This fundamental and simple fact seems, for some reason, to befuddle and bewilder theists. It is similar to a stamp collector asking if I collect stamps and when they find out I don’t, they conclude that my hobby is ‘not collecting stamps’. Not accepting a belief is not a belief. Not eating a meal of a hamburger and fries is not a ‘non-hamburger and fries meal’. Also, no atheist should be saying everyone else is wrong and they know that god/s or godesses don’t exist. The atheist position is that, due to insufficient evidence, they can not accept the Yahweh hypothesis or the Allah hypothesis or the Shiva hypothesis. I highly recommend you read more on this subject. Try Hitchens, Sam Harris, Dennett, and Dawkins.

      “It is no coincidence that atheists here persistently and consistently employ degradation to articulate their point of view. It is no coincidence that they rely on lies and distortions, misrepresentations and false assertions about subjects they have little to no knowledge or experience of. ”

      I am willing to bet the average atheist is better read and more knowledgable on the subject of the bible than any cherry-picking christian. Most of the atheists I know have read volumes on various religions and own all the major religious texts (bible, koran, torah, book of mormon, scientology books). Most of them have actually read the bible in its entirety. I am willing to bet that you have never done so. You see, atheism requires critical thinking skills and the rejection of accepting something as true in the absence of supporting evidence. Religiousity requires blind faith, intellectual laziness, and mental compartmentalization. A religious person has to willfully switch off their critical thinking skills in the presence of religious dogma and bronze aged fairy tales.

      Sep 28, 2012 at 12:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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