Gentlemen, the bromance has landed. No longer just a thing for nerdy hipster boys, this week’s arrival of the Paul Rudd comedy I Love You, Man, proves guy-on-guy loving is having a genuine cultural moment. In the film, Rudd plays Peter Klaven, a friendless (at least when it comes to dudes) guy whose fiancee sends him on a quest to find some straight buds he can hang with. He gets some help from his gay brother (SNL‘s Andy Samberg), who’s an expert on straight men, as they’re the only kind of dudes he’s into.
But is bromance the exclusive domain of straight guys? Is it the fin-de-siecle response to a culture that’s become obsessed with breaking things down into “gay” (musical theater, Oprah, microplanes) and “straight” (football, tank tops, BBQ). Is the bromance the heterosexual version of a “safe space,” where straight dudes can show affection for each other without it leading to french kissing and couples massage?
I sure hope not. You see, some of my best friends are straight.
Before I begin, a word of explanation. In a second I’m going to say some really nice things about my straight friends, some of it at the expense of some of the gays I know. You’re going to accuse me of being some sort of self-hating homosexual with internalized homophobia, yadda, yadda, yadda. I won’t stop you if that’s your thing, but, just for a moment, consider the life of your editor: For the last three years or so, I’ve been gay for pay. I make my living thinking about gay topics, talking to gay people about gay things. Now, I’m not complaining – I could be writing about plumbing fixtures after all – but at the end of the day, the last thing I want to do is go to to a gay bar.
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Which is one reason why I tend to have a lot of straight male friends. But if I’m honest, I always have had straight buds and a lot of my gay friends have mostly straight friends as well. This seems only natural; after all, there are a lot more straight dudes out there than there are gay guys. But here’s the dirty secret I don’t tell anyone: Given a choice between hanging out with a gay guy or a straight one, I’d pick the straight one any day.
Take, for example, my roommate, known to RuPaul’s Drag Race recappers as “Straight Roommate.” He’s the third roommate I’ve had at the place I live and the only one I’ve been able to get along with. My previous roommates – both great guys, to be sure – still suffered from what I call “Real World” syndrome. It’s a thing that seems to uniquely affect gay men and straight women and mainly consists of trying to call “house meetings” and using the phrase “We need to talk.” And that’s only when they’re being direct—usually it’s just passive aggression. Straight Roommate, on the other hand, says things like “Dude, what the fuck is with the dishes in the sink?” which is the sort of direct communication someone who spends most of their day on the Internet needs.
In a lot of ways, we come from different worlds: He watches Fox News, Fraiser and Will & Grace; I watch Big Love and Top Chef. We get into long arguments about the veracity of evolution and whether affirmative action is reverse discrimination, but I love my Straight Roommate far more than I ever cared for the gay roomies that preceded him, even though, on the surface, we had more in common.
Strangely, when my gay friends chat about our straight friends, the conversation usually comes around to how, well, gay they are. My friend Vin is part of a monthly dinner club with three straight guys. Last week, he was surprised by an email he got from the three of them talking about how important next month’s event would be, “because it’s our one-year anniversary.” Pull up the Tivo at my house and there’s Singin’ in the Rain, All About Eve and Showboat on permanent save, but they belong to Straight Roommate, not me. Hell, he even commented when I started recording HBO specials about Nevada brothels. Hey! It’s interesting!
Which brings up another strange wrinkle in the gay-on-straight bromance. Everyone always assumes the straight guy must be secretly gay. It’s endlessly annoying and I’ve found myself defending my straight friends’ heterosexuality too often—and usually the person I’m making the defense to is gay. This seems like a sort of perverse reverse homophobia, as if no straight man would ever just want to hang out with a gay guy because he enjoys hanging out with them.
Ironically, the straight guys always seem to delight at the questioning. I worked with a straight guy at a gay magazine once (see, your alarm bells are ringing already!) and we became fast friends, playing Time Bandits at a nearby video arcade during lunch breaks. Soon, we were checking out taco carts after work and listening to Coast to Coast with Art Bell while driving around L.A. at night, talking about our lives.
I recently asked him if it was weird at all to spend so much time with a gay guy. After shrugging off the question, he told me that part of the appeal was that he could talk about more serious personal issues than he could with a straight friend.
For me, that’s part of the appeal of the straight-on-gay friendship. Instead of having any desire to sleep with my straight pals, I enjoy the absence of sexual tension than comes with most gay male friendships. It’s refreshing and fun to hang out with someone without the question of “Is this leading to sex?” hanging over my head. The reality is, despite being Mr. Gay Internet, I’m really nervous around gay guys I’m attracted to. I allow myself to get caught up in the “Does he like me? Is he interested? I wonder what our wedding will look like” inner monologue that lead to a lot of awkward mumbling and silences. With my straight pals, there’s none of that—except when there is.
Twice, I’ve had straight friends turn out to be, well, questioning. A friend in college decided that he was deeply and passionately in love with me after hanging out for a few months and told me: "When I look into your eyes, I feel like I could fall forever", which is one of the nicest, if cheesiest, things anyone has ever said to me. I was about to transfer to a new school and I knew that the fact that I’d be gone soon made me an easy laboratory for experimentation. We hooked up and then I moved. For years, I would get IMs from him, sometimes accusing me of seducing him, sometimes telling me he still felt something for me. About two years ago, he IM’d me to tell me he was getting married.
The great thing about the idea of “bromance” is that it accurately reflects the shifting sands of sexuality under the American male’s feet. Sexuality is a lot more fluid than it was a generation ago and it’s no longer taboo for guys to experiment with what turns them on. At the same time, I think it’s ridiculously hard for men of any sexuality to maintain friendships. Women may have assigned gender roles, but at least they’re smart enough to talk about and question them. Guys, on the other hand, are still tragically aping the macho attitudes of their grandfathers.
How is it possible we live in a society where the idea that a gay man and a straight man could be close friends is somehow radical? If anything, male sexuality has become more conservative in the last 40 years and only recently has the sphere of “maleness” expanded beyond a narrow macho ideal. It’s great that guys are able to have bromances, but how sad it is that it it’s so novel a phenomena that Hollywood can sell it as a high-concept comedy. Then again, that Paul Rudd fellow just keeps getting hotter by the day, right?
myrios123
Great article. I’m actually heading out of town this weekend to visit one of my straight friends. We plan on drinking, bbqing, smoking some cigars, and hopefully playing some golf. It’s kind of nice knowing my only expectation for the weekend is to be real.
amissio
Fantastic article.
For pretty much all of my life, the vast majority of my friends have been girls. I’ve gotten a bunch of good gay friends… but with both of those sort of friendships, things get weird. The girls want me to come over for girl’s night, and I go to great pains to point out that, you know, I’m not a girl. And with the gay guys the discussion at some point invariably turns to “let’s talk about being gay!” or “tell me your coming out story again!”. I value my friendships with my straight female friends and my gay male friends, but there’s always been something lacking.
And that’s when I met him. He’s wonderful. And straight. And I don’t want to bone him. My best friend right now is an Air Force officer who is completely, totally, irrevocably straight. We routinely go over to each others’ houses and get shit faced, talking about, ya know, everything. The fact that I’m gay comes up about as often as the fact that he’s straight: in other words, our sexuality isn’t a conversation itself, it’s just a side-note when we talk about the people we date.
It’s weird – I’ve never had a really close straight guy friend before – and this article is teh awesome at explaining the sort of dynamics in these sort of friendships. Well done, sir.
And gay guys, go out and make straight male friends. It’s pretty fucking awesome, just minus the fucking.
LP
I’ve been thinking about this for a while. I’m in college, and most of my friends are lesbian and straight women and straight men. I think that there might be something wrong with this considering the following:
1.) I live in New York City. I should have a lot more gay friends than I seem to have. Unfortunately, most of the gays I meet end up being hook-ups. I need to calm down.
2.) There seems to be more sexual tension with my straight friends than I have with my few gay friends. I’ve hooked up with three of my straight friends. I’m still very good friends with them, but there seems to be a barrier that I’ve built to them, because I’m afraid of them somehow blaming whatever on me. Wouldn’t it be easier to surround myself with gays?
Hmmm
Me
Shouldn’t that be “Bromanceology” or something? It rolls off the tongue better. Anyway, almost all of my close friends are male, and about half of those are straight. I love it. They’re often so easy going with little to no drama.
Gavin
I agree with most things in this article; however, my mind is blown when an editor cannot figure out the difference between “affect” and “effect”.
bb
This is a wonderful article. I agree with everything, right down to the ideas that patriarchy can be a gilded cage for men too and that the coming of gay men has actually made (VITAL!) homosocial relationships between men more difficult. The only thing I would disagree with slightly is that it’s a gay/straight thing. I too find that most of my most-fulfilling relationships are with what I teasingly call “gay heterosexual men,” (i.e. completely straight men who aren’t afraid of loving to bring sangria, hugs, and their gay roommate to dinner parties) but the truth is that it’s really about drama. I stay away from dramatic straight men AND dramatic gay men, and even with women I go for the easy-going (which is potentially why I have so many close lesbian friends). I’ll leave deciding what that all means about stereotypes to the pundits, but, my thought is, if they have Real World Syndrome, I don’t want ’em. But I do think the gay/straight bromance is especially powerful, because it brings to a healthy medium what could be two otherwise extreme personality types if left up to stereotypes and stereotypical associations. Also, has anyone noticed how acceptance from straight guys is so awesome because it’s a little unexpected? OK, now I need to end this comment now, otherwise it’ll just turn into a huge gush-session about my friends…
kevin (not that one)
I’m one half of a gay couple and of the people who are closest to us, half of them are gay and the other half straight. At times, though, we have more straight people in our lives than gays.
Part of the reason we actually have the gays in our lives that we do is that they are blood relatives. Him and I are not part of a gay clique and sometimes I get bummed about it. Such as when there are same-sex marriage demonstrations and you see all of the LGBTs there in groups of 5 friends. Most of our gay friends are spread out, and my partner is disabled and often stays at home. So often at these demonstrations it’s just me, wondering why I’m there by myself.
But then I think about what attracts me to people (as friends). And a lot of the social interactions that make up gay cliques just isn’t where my partner and I are at. Don’t worry: the last thing I would do is tear down the community. I’m okay with saying “this isn’t for me” without negatively criticising something.
But when I do find something in common with someone, often it isn’t sexual orientation. It’s music, art, hobbies, etc. And because of the type of music and/or hobbies I’m into, I often I find myself being in a predominantly heterosexual world – hetero but gay-friendly.
blake
I think this whole bromance thing is stupid. It’s just friendship! Men have had platonic relationships for eons. Now it’s some big thing.
Also, I find this comment by Japhy very interesting:
“Which brings up another strange wrinkle in the gay-on-straight bromance. Everyone always assumes the straight guy must be secretly gay. It’s endlessly annoying and I’ve found myself defending my straight friends’ heterosexuality too often—and usually the person I’m making the defense to is gay. This seems like a sort of perverse reverse homophobia, as if no straight man would ever just want to hang out with a gay guy because he enjoys hanging out with them.”
Queerty itself is very guilty of playing up straight relationships as gay. Look at the guys from Gossip Girl and Queerty’s continuing to push the must be gay because their pretty and live together. Gag! What is that?
ArronC
Have many straight BF’s.
My boyfriend and I have a harem of straight men that we love and whom love us.
How modern.
Anthony in Nashville
Hearing about all these newfound gay-straight friendships, I feel strange because my experience has generally been the opposite. I used to spend most of my social time with straight male friends, but that has pretty much stopped over the last few years. I’m finding that I prefer gay social circles if possible.
And, yes, I do have my issues with making bad assumptions about straight men. My negative perceptions have also increased as I’ve gotten older.
adamonlineagain
Japhy ends one story “About two years ago, he IM’d me to tell me he was getting married.” We’re so used to assuming that to mean that he ended up marrying a woman…but,as even Merriam-Webster knows, the definition of “married” has changed. Why not the way WE use it?
Geners
What a nice article. I grew up with a great group of straight guys from childhood, but lost contact with them when I went to college, came out of the closet, and assumed that we couldn’t have the same friendships we had before. I’ve reconnected with a few of them since, even been in some of their wedding parties. Still, things weren’t quite the same.
When I went to grad school, having been out for several years, I was able to establish some really close friendships with several straight guys. We played poker, drank, and shared “war” stories about our various dating and hook up experiences. We were wing men for each other, as they were happy to accompany me to gay bars, just as I would go with them to straight bars. Good times. I count them among my closest friends today, and know that they always have my back, regardless. Oh, and, we talk about sex A LOT, but there has never once been an awkward pause, drunken pass, or even the slightest hint of tension. Bromantic indeed.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
“He gets some help from his gay brother (SNL’s Andy Samberg), who’s an expert on straight men, as they’re the only kind of dudes he’s into.”
I just threw up. Way to use film and straight actors to perpetuate an anti-gay stereotype.
Ogre
I tolerate hets because they are the majority; but that doesn’t mean I have to go out of my way to like them, or befriend them.
As far as your obsession with straight men, Japhy, clearly you want to fuck your roommate, but you know you can’t so you keep him around, or keep hanging around him, because you’re obsessed with what you can’t have. Don’t make such a big deal out of it, as if you’re somehow special, or superior to gay men who don’t have straight male friends. Quite the opposite actually, because those who have gay friends have been able to see past the sex and form a friendship. Whereas you only seem to view gay men as sexual objects, not worthy of your friendship. Whereas straight men are somehow more worthy of your friendship, simply because they don’t want to suck your dick.
So to sum up your editorial, gay mne: Good for fucking, but not for hanging with. At least in your world view.
Ogre
That should have read:
So to sum up your editorial: Gay men, good for fucking, but not for hanging with. At least in your world view.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
“I tolerate hets because they are the majority; but that doesn’t mean I have to go out of my way to like them, or befriend them.”
I’m lucky in that I hate all humanity. How I managed to find a boyfriend, I’ll never know. But I do know that he hates people as much as I do and I think that’s what brought us together–our mutual distaste for the world and its inhabitants. We’re each other’s BFF’s and that seems to have worked out well.
And I will say that your summation of Mr. Grant’s article does seem to ring true. But what do I care
Anthony in Nashville
@Ogre:
I think you may be onto something with that summarization.
I find it odd that not only Japhy but other gay media figures like author E Lynn Harris seem to take pride in having so many straight friends and enjoy describing gay people/culture as “tired” compared to straights.
I won’t go as far as to say it’s a function of internalized homophobia, but I do wonder where this straight adoration is coming from. With Harris in particular, he threw shade towards gay men, saying the reason we don’t consider his books as good as they used to be is because he portrays his (DL) characters are rich and good looking, and “real” gay men aren’t like that.
Japhy Grant
@Mr. Enemabag Jones: Well of course you agree. You wrote it!
Mr. Enemabag Jones
“Well of course you agree. You wrote it!”
Well, that’s childish and what? I’d say stupid. Did I write Anthony In Nashville’s comment too?
Ogre
Japhy, that’s a pretty inflamatory accusation. What does your straight roommate think of that?
Don’t go around putting my words in other people’s mouths. Do so only when it’s something I should be embarrassed about. Like, “KELLY CLARSON ROCKS!”
Now go tell your straight roommate how you told that queer, Ogre off. I’m sure he’ll be mightily impressed and want to do something dead buth with you. Like go out fag bashing, or titty-hunting, or whatever it is straight boys with queer housemates do.
TheDamonator
@Japhy Grant:
hahahaha!
Japhy Grant
@Ogre: @Mr. Enemabag Jones: Awww, now you have to make me embarrass you. Try using a different IP address next time.
kevin (not that one)
@Ogre: And as a gay man, I don’t tolerate stupid shits like you who hate people not for what they do that’s bad but who they are in general.
You’re nothing more than Fred Phelps in drag and your words are an affront to our community. You don’t speak for me and you certainly do not speak for the majority of the LGBT community.
It’s so OBVIOUS your self-hatred is behind your prejudice towards heterosexuals. If I hated being gay – which I DON’T – I probably would be looking for someone – say, “hets”? – to focus my misguided anger on as well.
The comments on Queerty can sometimes be truly pathetic and sometimes I wonder how many of you are suffering roid rage or are in the final stages of dementia. Making broad attacks and gross over-generalizations about people who are different than you…it smacks of the hate we call our enemies on.
I don’t care what your back story is, how often you were bashed, how sad the tiny little closet you live in looks: you have no right to be condescending or hateful towards heterosexuals just because of the sexual orientation they happened to be born as.
As long as your are talking and thinking this way, you aren’t in my community. You are my enemy, you are the LGBT liberation/equality struggle’s enemy – just as much as the religious fundamentalists and other homophobes.
TheDamonator
Let me play contrarian. I’m not going to accuss Grant of internalized homophobia. No, I don’t think he has an inner fag hater but I will bring it to his attention that many gay/bi/queer males don’t have the luxury of finding gay-friendly straight men let alone gay-friendly straight men who are comfortable with having a gay best friend. In many of our experiences most straight men are more comfortable calling us fags and beating us to a pulp, or just avoiding knowing us personally than bromancing with us.
I do happen to have one gay friendly self proclaimed straight male friend and 50% of the time my gaydar is sounding off and I have 0 attraction to him.
Many of us long for that kind of relationship with a man where sexual tension isn’t involved and many gay males, especially closeted or mostly closeted guys hunt for those gay friendly straight male creatures to no avail. Judging by the anti-gay violence which has its roots in online meetings, no avail may be an understatement.
So while I get the point of this article, I think Grant is kind of rubbing it in our (the readers) faces as if saying “look at my straight friend, he so cool! I got the male friend I’ve always wanted! Yay.”
I have gay friends who I can hug intimately. Gay male friends who I kiss as if they were family, as a father kisses his son on the lips pre-macho indoctrination, and lay my head on his shoulder without any awkwardness because we’re no attracted to each other. Now if you can find a straight guy who can act like that in public then more power to you but until then, I’m sticking with my less defensive gay male friends.
SZK
That was awesome, Japhy. 🙂
blake
@Japhy Grant:
Pwned!
Burned!
Huzzah!
Mr. Enemabag Jones
“Awww, now you have to make me embarrass you. Try using a different IP address next time.”
Considering how well you embarrass yourself, I guess I should be worried.
Now I don’t know about Ogre, but I use a proxy server, so obviously you’re not reading my IP addy, but which ever PL decides to use.
Ogre
“And as a gay man, I don’t tolerate stupid shits like you who hate people not for what they do that’s bad but who they are in general.”
What you don’t tolerate is a difference of opinion, kevin.
“You don’t speak for me and you certainly do not speak for the majority of the LGBT community.”
Nor do you speak for me, or the majority of the queer community.
“It’s so OBVIOUS your self-hatred is behind your prejudice towards heterosexuals.”
So using your logic, straights who hate gays are really self-hating staights?
“I don’t care what your back story is, how often you were bashed, how sad the tiny little closet you live in looks”
Oh! So in other words, be a good house queer and do as the straigth world says?
“As long as your are talking and thinking this way, you aren’t in my community.”
I’ll thank God for that.
“You are my enemy, you are the LGBT liberation/equality struggle’s enemy – just as much as the religious fundamentalists and other homophobes.”
So in other words, anyone who disagress with your world view is an enemy? I’m happy to be your enemy, but it seems a few others aren’t too impressed with all this priase we lavish on straight people for nothing more than doing the right thing.
Ogre
By the way kevin, to prove I beleive in free speech, I didn’t bother to flag your comment. I feel everyone has a right to voice their opinion, wether they toil in the fields, or work in the Big House.
jim
@Japhy Grant: BWA-ha-haa!! How adorable is THAT?! The two haters sweetly sharing a computer! Well, that’s Fantasy Number 1. Fantasy Number 2: Sybill, SYBILL, you’ve spent ENOUGH time on that computer today!” Thanks for the huge laugh, Japhy!
Ogre
“Now I don’t know about Ogre, but I use a proxy server, so obviously you’re not reading my IP addy, but which ever PL decides to use.”
I like Anonymouse. PL? Proxylord?
Dan Cullinane
Well ain’t this a how do you do about nothin! The point of the article from what I can see is that “Bromance” is a term du jour that is being tossed about and this movie is coming up (which probably some overly sensitive types will get their panties in a wad about)so Japhy wrote an article about it. Which is kind of his job and all. So, he used the opportunity to talk about male friendship, which is cool…particularly since friendship, like love, knows no boundaries, or at least not those artificially constructed ones that some people like to live behind. Friendship is just one more form of humans loving each other after all, and so what’s the problem?
This two cats who may or may not be one cat, seems to be saying that its not okay to love someone if they are not of your identical sexual orientation. He also, I guess, is saying, that men can only love one another if one or both of them wants to have sex.
Whats it to you man? You love who you love, let Japhy love who he loves. The world is not gonna be a worse place tomorrow because of too much love. It’s not a finite thing. There’s enough to go around. It’s cool, you can still get some pie, you know?
I don’t think he was trying to make a point about how cool he was, I think he was just trying to say he likes his roommate. Which ties into the article. See how that works?
So,relax guys…lets be friends with who we want, regardless of what makes their dick tickle.
ED DISCLOSURE: I used to work for Japhy but I swear I’m not sucking up to him. Swear.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
“PL? Proxylord?”
Of course.
As an aside, I find it sad how quickly queers will turn on each other when they think someone has been made to look foolish. Does the fact that Japhy is listing the same IP over and over because of proxy servers lesson, the vitriol directed at me? All I did was agree with a poster who seems to have an unpopular opinion.
Kevin wrote:
“The comments on Queerty can sometimes be truly pathetic and sometimes I wonder how many of you are suffering roid rage or are in the final stages of dementia.”
And he’s right, which makes me wish I owned the nail concession around here because you’re all so quick to crucify anyone who writes something unpopular.
Ogre
“This two cats who may or may not be one cat, seems to be saying that its not okay to love someone if they are not of your identical sexual orientation. He also, I guess, is saying, that men can only love one another if one or both of them wants to have sex.”
What I said, was the Japhy seemed to think he’s better than, I suppose, his readers because he has a straight friend. And also it appears, not just to me, that he only sees gay men as sexual objects not worth his effort to be friends with. He says as much with this bit:
“I allow myself to get caught up in the “Does he like me? Is he interested? I wonder what our wedding will look like” inner monologue that lead to a lot of awkward mumbling and silences. With my straight pals, there’s none of that—except when there is.”
He’s not asking himself whether his gay friends like him for him, but if they like him enough to want to fuck him. When he sees gay men as only sexual conquests, but sees straight men as peiople he can have a friendship with, it debases the entire concept of friendship among queers. He perpetuates the stereotype that gay men are only looking to get laid.
Rather than counter by comment, he lowered himself to childish shit slinging that in the end, makes him look foolish.
All these comments prove is that gay men are far too obsessed with straight people. And I made it clear why i think that is with this comment:
“So to sum up your editorial: Gay men, good for fucking, but not for hanging with. At least in your world view.”
If gay men spent as much time trying to build good friendships with gay men, rather than seeing each like thenext conquest, we wouldn’t need to glom onto hets to try and find the love we nver got from daddy, or our first HS crush, or whomever.
Dan Cullinane
I did not get that from the article. I think you might be reading a bit too much into it. What I got, is that he was saying the same thing that a lot of straight women say about their friendships with gay men…and actually what a lot of straight men say about their friendships with lesbians…I can have the friendship without worrying about something awkward. I mean, seriously, don’t lie…In the initial stages of any sexually compatible relationship, be it gay/gay, hetero male/hetero female, there is always that moment when one or both wonders, “Is this friendship, or does he/she want something more…?” It happens. Its normal. I think all Japhy is saying is that its nice to relax around a guy without thinking anything like that. And it is.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
“As long as your are talking and thinking this way, you aren’t in my community. You are my enemy, you are the LGBT liberation/equality struggle’s enemy – just as much as the religious fundamentalists and other homophobes.”
No offense, Kevin, but who the fuck are you? That is so beyond arrogant that I don’t even know what to think of that. Who are you to decide who may, or may not be part of the LGBTQ community? Who died and made you Queen?
Ogre
“I think all Japhy is saying is that its nice to relax around a guy without thinking anything like that. And it is.”
I think Japhy had the opportunity to celebrate his platonic friendship, but decided instead to celebrate the SEXUALITY of his platonic friend. And therein lies the rub. The entire piece smacks of gay friends=nuisance; straight friends=BRO!
Dan Cullinane
well ogre, thats your world, and you gotta live in it. peace, brother.
Chloe
@Mr. Enemabag Jones: quote of the day award.
epluribusunumjk
Man…some people seem to being getting pretty angry on this site.
What does it matter? So Japhy wrote an article about how having straight friends may be a good thing…so what? I liked it, and it definitely reminded me how important diversity in friendships is.
I agree with the author for the most part, at least in the sense that platonic relationships with hets are more simpler. For instance, I have had a couple of straight roommates and a couple of gay roommates, and the straight ones have always been so much more easy to get along with, be direct to, and chill with. Maybe that’s just my experience – but it’s an experience. We’ve all had them, and thus, we all have a different worldview.
Ogre
I just think gay men are too obsessed with getting aproval from straight people, especially men. Maybe it’s because daddy didn’t love you enough; or the high school bully knew you were queer before you did; maybe it’s a feeling that you’re better than your flamboyant, or effeminate friends because you’re “straight acting and looking” and therefore can attract the friendship of a het male. Gay men are obsessed with one-upmanship and het male friends are the Hail Mary Pass of brinkmanship.
I don’t know. All I know is, that when a gay man acts agressive, or angry, he’s bitchy. But when a straight man acts the same way, he’s assertive. And no one wants to been seen as bitchy.
Straight men have become the next must have accesory for gay men and it’s really sad.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
“For the last three years or so, I’ve been gay for pay. I make my living thinking about gay topics, talking to gay people about gay things. Now, I’m not complaining – I could be writing about plumbing fixtures after all – but at the end of the day, the last thing I want to do is go to to a gay bar.”
I already know the answer to this, but am I the only one who finds the above, shall we say, ignorant? I know as a gay man I find it offensive.
Poor Japhy, surrounded by ALL THAT GAY! He just has to get away and hang around some, what? Butch straight men to feel manly? To get the queer out of his hair? That is, until his prostate gets itchy.
If Keith Boykin complained about not wanting to hang around black people because he’s “black-for-pay” you’d all be screaming self-hating black; oreo; racist. Yet Japhy writes something that is bordeing on homophobic and you all fall to your knees and fellate him.
And there it is. Some gay men seem to convince themselves that straight men are easier, better, more fun than queers simply because they don’t realy like gay men. Gay men have a lot of bagage; straight men are the ideal. And if we can’t be straight, might as well do the next best thing and be straight by association.
Japhy knew what he was writing was ignorant as proven by this statement:
“Before I begin, a word of explanation. In a second I’m going to say some really nice things about my straight friends, some of it at the expense of some of the gays I know. You’re going to accuse me of being some sort of self-hating homosexual with internalized homophobia, yadda, yadda, yadda.”
If a straight writer wrote that, you’d all be clamoring for his head on a pike. Yet Japhy writes that and he’s your new hero. I don’t get it.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
“quote of the day award.”
Thank you, Chloe.
Ogre
“but am I the only one who finds the above, shall we say, ignorant?”
Youre not the onyl one, Mr. Jones.
Chitown Kev
@Japhy
Swish! 2 points.
geoff
Why is everybody fighting over an article about friendship? Shouldn’t we want to have as many people in our lives who we care about and care about us as possible without worrying if we’re being separatist or self hating or whatever the fuck? If you like someone and they like you, be friends. What is the big deal? Sorry if some see this as overly simplistic, but face it, I’m right. Peace!
mb00
@Mr. Enemabag Jones: Oh man, I’m totally with you there. I HATE people as well.
mb00
I had what I guess you could call a “Bro-Mance” with a straight friend of mine. He use to live in the apartment right next to me and it was like having a roommate without actually having to live together. He’s one of the coolest Greasers I’ve ever known, so we’d get piss drunk together and I’d go to bars with him and he’d go to bars with me and it was great.
I see nothing wrong with having these types of relationships with other men. In other countries, it is perfectly fine for male friends to see each other and have affection for each other.
I say it’s about time.
The Lesbian Mafia
I’ve never been one of those insular types with only “lesbian” friends, listening to Ani and worshiping Rachel Maddow’s every word like she is Jesus Christ, and thinking a fanny pack is proper pocketbook for ANYONE never mind a woman! I can relate to needing to spread out and be around a mix of people both stray and gaight!
charlie hoover
Well i can tell you that my straight roommates do suck and are very very passive aggressive.
I think the only problem with the bromance is when you start to fall for one of your straight friends, you get a crush and there is nothing you can do about it haha.
fredo777
@Ogre:
“I just think gay men are too obsessed with getting aproval from straight people, especially men. Maybe it’s because daddy didn’t love you enough”
I think that’s a generalization + (speaking for myself) way off-base. Maybe you’re drawing from your own personal history with bullies, daddy, hets in general, etc., but my friendships with hetero persons (male or female) are because I enjoy their company. Generally speaking, I don’t give a shit if the “straight world” accepts me. I have my circle of friends + if I like being around them, I am, regardless of their sexuality.
I don’t see why such a big stink has to be made over it when someone (Japhy included) does the same. He loves his het friends + appreciates the lack of sexual tension (accept when it is there, as he said). Just as I love mine. Big deal.
fredo777
* except
it’s late. feh
Ahem
I agree with Enemabag Jones 100%. Japhy IS the type of self hating queens that is the cause of many of our problems. He IS our enemy. Jones is correct–to some gays, due to internalized homophobia, their ideal is a a stright guy. Hence the requisite, “straight acting, straight appearing.” In other words, be a motherfucking fake! And why not? Afterall many gays are fake in every other way! Just take a deep breath, be honest to yourselves, and look around you, my gays, and you will see the truth.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@geoff:
Why would we want that when we can be really weird and really mean..
Oh god.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Ahem:
Lets kill him?
No?
Lets just be really rude about him.
Or you?
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@The Lesbian Mafia:
Yeah cause you’re now oddly defensive and weird!
I bet one can have convo’s with Org and the jones guy with the same IP about Africa, tibetan wool or scandanavian sustainable communities…
Real open and intellectually curious guy……
Jeffrey
“How is it possible we live in a society where the idea that a gay man and a straight man could be close friends is somehow radical?” Um, who says it IS?
I don’t believe it is such a special thing to have straight male friends that are cool with gay guys. I have been meeting them with great frequency for the last 30 years. I think the vast majority of us do. The posts on here back that up. Most of the guys on here seem to be engaging in these ‘exotic’ friendships. Maybe they ain’t so exotic?
I have lots of great gay friends, too. I agree with the earlier comment about being attracted to friends who aren’t into lots of drama.
It’s interesting that Japhy says “Given a choice between hanging out with a gay guy or a straight one, I’d pick the straight one any day.”
I’d pick the one who was the most fun to be with and isn’t high maintenance.
It’s kind of a shame, Japhy, that you haven’t met any gay guys who are like that. Are you choosing your gay friends by their personalities or their looks? When around gay guys you say you are always thinking “Does he like me? Is he interested? I wonder what our wedding will look like”… Well, um, try hanging out with someone that you are not physically attracted to and -PRESTO!-problem solved. Are you one of those guys who doesn’t want to be seen with gay guys who aren’t hot?
“If anything, male sexuality has become more conservative in the last 40 years..”
You really think that? Earlier you said “Sexuality is a lot more fluid than it was a generation ago and it’s no longer taboo for guys to experiment with what turns them on”
Ok, so which is it? Is it more conservative or is it more fluid?
I think it IS more fluid with less taboos. Actually, each generation is pretty much more fluid with less taboos than the one before.
“… and only recently has the sphere of “maleness” expanded beyond a narrow macho ideal.”
C’mon. I remember back in the 70’s when Alan Alda was the face of the new “feminist” male who could be sensitive and show his feelings and treat women as equals and reject the old notion of macho masculine behavior. The definition of ‘maleness’ has, in fact, been broadening all these years. Sure, some men don’t evolve and are still aping their grandfathers. But in general, men have been embracing the ever expanding options open to them in living their male lives.
And just because these relationships didn’t have the lable ‘bromance’ in the old days doesn’t mean Hollywood hasn’t been making straight male bonding movies for many decades.
krobert2
I didn’t even know ‘hets’ was a named tossed around. The more you know!
Regardless, Mr. Grant – sincerely, an incredible article. As a college student in a small, liberal arts college on the east coast [almost like concentration camps for diversifying perspectives, and trying something that you never have been, nor ever will be interested in], I too have many more straight friends than I do gay friends. Is it because of numbers? Absolutely. It also however, and some might really not like this part, is largely due to attitudes. My straight friends are generally nicer, more caring people than a lot of the gay guys at my school. Many – and as much as I would like to chalk it up to maturity, I simply cannot lie – are self-centered, egotistical, high maintenance, screeching, queeny, bitches. Any and all positive comments I receive are from my straight male friends, and to not seem like all I want is to be showered with compliments, most of the conversations I’ve had in college that discuss any subject of relevance or importance, anything that made me laugh or think, I vividly remember having with my straight friends. However, if I want to talk fashion, or the latest thing on Entertainment news I can always go to… wait, my straight friends! The gay men in my school and also the ones I’ve encountered in MA where I reside, are dull, Dull, DULL! In their minds, there’s nothing else to be considered besides what they’re wearing or where they’re going and what song they can’t wait to hear. It’s sad, it really, really is. I (so.. excitingly) went to the Britney Spears ‘Circus’ tour recently, and did so with two of my good gay friends and a bunch of girls and we were floored by the ways we witnessed gay men treat each other… it was nothing short of thirteen year old girls. And I’m talking a stadium of people! Impossible to imagine, but I’ve seen it with my own eyes. And let me tell you boys, it ain’t pretty.
I have three other really great gay friends whom I go to school with, one who is not part of my immediate straight man friend group – I affectionately refer to them as ‘the boys’ – and one who is. Luckily, the one who is is also of mixed races [like myself] and from Boston. We’ve had numerous discussions about our friend group and how it’s just easier than being friends with as many gay guys. It’s not that we don’t like gay people – OBVIOUSLY!! – but we simply get along with and enjoy their company better. And it IS easier without any kind of sexual tension or expectations. I’ve slept in beds with almost all of my straight guy friends, and nothing [serious – straight boys do enjoy an occasional cuddle apparently, especially mid-snoring…weird] has ever happened and I wouldn’t want it to. It’s less of a “Oh, they respect my space and I respect theirs” – there’s simply nothing there. I think what I get with my straight male friends versus what I get with the gay majority is that my friends are, first and foremost, my FRIENDS [implying they’re – gasp – friendly], they’re people who have interests and are concerned with not just themselves, but others, and I haven’t found that in gay men in Boston, nor the college I attend. My boys are attractive, and smart, funny and charming, all going places with great personalities and quirks, and if I could lump them all together and make one super hot, perfect boy who happened to like guys, then FUCK YES I would. But individually, they’re perfect, they’re straight and they’re mine. Kind of like pokemon, only with cocks.
Ogre
This is my last comment on this.
Years ago, when “acting” black became increasingly popular among whites–wiggers, as they were called–Paul Mooney made the comment that, “Everyone wants to be black, but no one wants to be a nigger.”
What I’ve been seeing among gay men is that everyone wants to be gay, but no one wants to be a faggot. Sure, gay men like fucking other men, it’s in our nature. But far too many gay men don’t want to be seen in the company of other gay men in public and especially around straight people. It’s that simple.
Call it whatever you like: Self-loathing; being closeted; being ashamed. What it comes down to is being embarrassed. And oddly enough, the traits that are being thrown around in this comments section as being negative and causing you all to avoid the company of other queers, you are all acting out. I mean really, Japhy claiming two posters are the same person? How much drama has that caused?
We see in others what we are embarrassed about in ourselves, so we avoid those people who remind us of what we are. Straight people act like dicks too, but queers seem to give them a pass on the same deeds, that we chastise queers for.
It’s straight worship, plain and simple. Steve Harvey made the joke, “Y’all know Tiger Woods has made it. He married a white woman. Everybody loves them some Tiger Woods!” Well, when gay men start bragging about all the straight men they have as friends, I suppose that makes them believe they have “made it”.
Are we surprised that ex-gay therapies have taken America by storm in the face of this? After all, they say the exact same things Japhy wrote in this post. But they are called homophobic and hateful and damaging to the gay psyche.
All in all, with that kind of attitude, it doesn’t surprise me that some queers are partnerless and spend all their free time with straight men. Who would want to share a bed, or their life, with someone so hung up on the sexuality of their friends? That is emotionally futile.
vernonvanderbilt
I really don’t see the big deal here, honestly. I choose my friends based on only one factor: do they enrich my existence? If they do, then we remain friends. If they don’t, sooner or later we part ways. Pretty simple, to me.
However, one thing I have noticed is that a lot of my friendships with straight guys seem to last longer than my friendships with gay fellas. It could simply be a function of my surroundings; we homos are definitely the silent minority here in my area.
And yes, part of it probably has to do with sexual tension and the toll it can take on a friendship. My best friend is a straight man, and I can say with no reservations that at no point in our fifteen year relationship have I ever felt the desire to take it further with him. We bonded in high school, over music, mostly (we were both drummers in the marching band, and we were in a few rock bands together over the years) and out of all the people I’ve been associated with over the years, he has been the most consistent as far as being there when I needed him.
The only bad thing about straight guy friends is that usually, at some point, they get married to a woman and push you to the back burner. That’s where gay friends would come in handy, I suppose, but we have one “gayish” bar covering a very large section of north central Ohio, and to be blunt, I don’t really care for the clientele. The gay scene…it can be more than a little soul-crushing. You have to look like this, you have to dance to this kind of music, you have to drink these drinks, you have to wear these clothes…and if you don’t meet the criteria, you are shunned at best, scorned at worst. I spent too much of my youth frequenting this place and places like it. When I decided to stop playing the game and simply be myself, it became apparent that there was indeed a “gay brotherhood” and that I wasn’t invited to be a member.
I’m probably the wrong person to discuss the issue anyway. I’m an outsider by nature. But even the most “inside” homo cannot be blind to the clique-ish nature of mainstream queer society. You want gay men to befriend one another instead of straight guys? Stop being a bitch and start looking at your gay brethren as human beings rather than “fuckable/unfuckable.” Until that changes, I’d wager that most of my friends will continue to be straight guys. I’m not disappointed by that, but I’m disappointed by the circumstances that, for all intents and purposes, enforce it.
afrolito
Wow!….There are some really interesting and telling comments to be read here. It’s late, and I really don’t want to step into this minefield.
Anthony in Nashville
I stepped away from this post for a couple of days, the last 5 or so comments are very interesting and the kind of things that I feel many gay men don’t want to discuss. Perhaps these issues can be continued in a separate thread.
Ed in DC
I can relate. I am a gay man that seems to “attract” straight men. I make friends with staight guys very easily. They become comfortable with me and introduce me to their girlfriends/wives etc. We normally do ok with boundaries other than the occasional kiss/make-out session. It’s funny how most of my straight male friends tend to start kissing me on the mouth in front of their girlfriends and they are ok with it…..go figure! I adore my friendships with them. But I do have one instance where I fell in love with one of them. He began ti “seduce” me and did and said all the things a guy should say. I really tried to resist, but once we started hanging out a lot and I really started to get to know him, I ended up falling for him. We “fooled around” a few times, then he grew distant and stopped talking to me saying that “things were getting to hard for him to deal with”. We recently re-connected. I have hung out with him and his girlfriend a couple times. I can tell that he is uncomfortable being around me because he insists that he bring his gf whenever we hang out. Yesm I still have feelings for him, but have no problem surpressing them because I would much rather have his platonic friendship than nothing at all.
robert in syd
wow great response to this article..but trhen again we are always dealing with “straight Men” in our daily life so what is so unusual about the interacion???Its just like we too are dealing with women as well so does this mean we cannot have good relationship with any of them except gays only????But all things aside straight men makes better friends then gays..you guys understand like no back stabbing no bitching no comparison and no gossips,just plain fun with the right crowd…..
Jai
“But all things aside straight men makes better friends then gays..” Wow. I don’t if I should laugh or cry at the complete ignorance of that statement.
Oh, and Ed in DC, that friend of yours who happened to “seduce” you ain’t straight. He’s possibly a confused gay man in denial or bi at least.
Devlin
Japhy, what a GREAT article. You are so right on. About the nervousness of being around gay guys you are attracted to. Man we all have that going on to one degree or another. So who in their right mind would shack up with mr good looking straight unavailable? Talk about kick’n the cat.
Having unrequited sexual tension out of the house is a good thing, God knows we get it other places. I have good gay friends and straight ones and like hanging with both. But I will say, there is far less drama with the straight ones, as they have not had the gay sexual abuse ALL of us have had by being born in a non accepting sexual world, hence alot of unresolved anger and personality affectations. Some escape it, most don’t. I for one did not.
Be that as it may, alot of unresolved anger can make any relationships have a funky edge when mirrored back. I did counseling and it changed my life around gay men. I felt more at home, felt like a velvet glove when I wasn’t having reactions to gay men in their drama, and mooning over the next hot guy, usually because I was looking for a savior from my own anger issues. Now I am attracting more solid grounded gay guys which is very cool. Good mirror.
So Japhy, thanks for that article. I get it all the way.
TANK
Perhaps you should have left this one for dear old diary, japhy. Have you learned something about yourself that you didn’t know before you posted this entry? Was it purgative…
My interests and areas of proficiency aren’t very gay, so out of mutual interest, most of my friends and acquaintances are straight. If gays had my interests (and occasionally…once in a blue moon, there’s a queer who knows modal logic or set theory), I’d hang out with them. At least you’re honest about being uncomfortable around gay men that you’re attracted to–but not all of them, ya?
Dr.Whocares
@Ogre: Not that who I am matters at all. I would like it noted that I dislike closed minded bigots such as yourself. Way to be what you hate. Oh yes fyi, I’m a het, so feel free to disregard this.
Jerry
As a lesbian who’s tangled herself through more intricate love-triangles, squares, octagons, etc, than I would like to mention, I will take the oportunity of agreeing on all points and say that STRAIGHT FRIENDS DAMN WELL ROCK. Not having to constantly get screwed sideways by sexual tension and the general weirdness of mutual dykedom is awesome. I don’t have that many straight friends, sadly, but those I have I cherish very dearly.
Mann
I really thought “bromance” was the exclusive domain of straight guys, since the term has historically referred to a relationship between heterosexuals. Instead of redefining the word “bromance”, we gay people should coin a new word to define a close friendship between a heterosexual and a homosexual.
Ashton
The comments here speak clearly of how a lot of gays love to brag these days about their masculinity when actually all they have is nothing but a sissy inside them. Their bragging about their straight friends is nothing more than a self-hatred and self-denial of what they all really are from inside.
Roar
@Mann: The term for a bromance between a gay and a straight is “homobromance”