We can’t forget about the T in LGBT. I think now it’s our trans brothers and sisters that we really need to allow to take the lead. We need to listen to them and support them the way they have supported us all these years. I feel like they’ve put their needs, they’ve taken a backseat, to really help marriage equality come through and help people accept gay people better but that doesn’t necessarily help trans people. I think we need to be there to support them now. There’s a lot of issues that community faces that gay and lesbian people don’t have to face. There’s issues of what bathrooms they can go to and there’s blatant discrimination against them and even the way society thinks of gender is problematic for the way they see themselves and want to be seen by society. We have a long way to go. We’re really just beginning now so we really need to allow trans people to take the lead.”
— Out entertainer Steve Grand asked about the next frontier for LGBT equality during an interview with The Daily Beast
AtticusBennett
AMEN! we’re all in it together, and we need to stand strong in support of our trans brothers and sisters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJom6vyRtQc
Lvng1Tor
I wish we could “like” comments. or up/down them. Anyway…my only suggestion to the message would be to replace “brothers and sisters” with “family” The message and the heart in the right place though.
VampDC
I think everyone can support what they’d like to.
Personally I don’t see the direct connection of why LGB has to be related to T
Giancarlo85
@VampDC: Personally I don’t think anyone cares what you think.
Trans people have a part of the LGBT movement and it’s time for some in the gay community to stop trying to cut them out.
Billy Budd
She became a cute He.
Kamuriie
@Giancarlo85: Berating Vamp for his opinion doesn’t change anything. Precisely the standard trans playbook–insult, belittle, rage. I’ve never heard transfolk, on Twitter, Reddit, or in person, ever speak of anything but contempt for the rest of the spectrum. I may empathize with their plight, but from what *I’ve* seen, they have no interest in being part of any “community.”
Giancarlo85
@Kamuriie: What bullcrap. maybe it is because people like you express such disgust towards trans people… Which is the reason why trans people are angry. Hypocrites like you speak for nobody but yourself.
Lazycrockett
His album was released this week and its really good. Rock/pop with influences from Elton John, Lady Gaga,and even some One Direction.
Kamuriie
@Giancarlo85: I don’t have “disgust towards trans people.” Try again. I specifically said I empathize with their plight.
But, because I’ve experienced trans people being uninterested in LGBTs, somehow I’m “expressing disgust, hypocritically”?
Spoiler Alert: You exactly proved my point. Insult, belittle, rage. Try again.
Kamuriie
Should clarify: Uninterested in being part of a “LGBT community.” Again, the actions of transfolk I’ve personally had don’t constitute “disgust towards trans people.” A delusional reading if there’s ever been one. Kudos on that.
MacAdvisor
@VampDC:
“Personally I don’t see the direct connection of why LGB has to be related to T”
Being gay, as opposed to just being homosexual, is taking back the power to decide one’s role rather than having one’s role decided by society. Coming out is, bit by bit, telling people you are rejecting the role they assigned you and claiming your rightful, self-defined role. Thus, someone like Steve Grand, who told country music a man can be a country music singer and be sexually turned on by other men is truly gay, while someone like Aaron Schock may or may not be homosexual, but isn’t gay. The L, G, B, T, and even the Q are people who are claiming their own sexual identity, often at great peril, from the role society demands they have. That is why we are all in this together. Even straight cis-gender men are starting to see they, too, have the power to be their true selves and not some caricature of a man, so there are now out and proud straight men who cuddle and don’t like sports. The civil rights campaign isn’t so much about having sex, but getting the freedom to be ourselves. Gay Pride is about all of us having the right to express ourselves honestly, openly, and supportively. Thus, the T is included, as it should be, because this is about ALL of us.
Axeman
@MacAdvisor: Yes! Kudos.
Curty
I guess technically trans should be included in LGB because many of them even tho they identify as trans still have the genitalia they were born with. Those a trans woman like a friend of mine may call herself a woman and dress as one, identify as one, she still has the penis she was born with. So technically she still is a man. Thus still have same sex relations, or bisexual relations.
ingyaom
I don’t get the inclusion of T with GLB, either. Trans people claim to have a medical condition that can be treated with surgery – after which they may be straight or gay. If they’re gay, then they’re with us; if they’re not, they’re not. Being homosexual is not a medical condition requiring treatment. Coming together as a community has convinced a lot of the world of that fact, but I don’t think Trans is necessarily a part of that group.
Merv
What happened to “DIE CIS SCUM!”? Wasn’t that a thing?
Avery Alvarez
He seems like a really nice guy, and he’s right.
Someone mentioned his album which just came out. Bought it, loved it!
Giancarlo85
@Kamuriie: And I’ve seen gay men, even on here, belittle and insult trans people all the time. Telling themy they are not part of the movement.
It’s LGBT. People need to understand that. Not LGB. I’m so glad some here have no say in anything.
dave lopes
Yes we are all part of a sexual minority and should fight the opressors together.
Trans people still should come out on their own as they are different from GLB folks.
Attaching them at the end of LGB…T does them a diservice and prevents society at large from truly understand their situation.
Time for an independent Transgender movement.
As for the Queer in LGBTQ…what the hell is that for????
dhmonarch89
I think the trans community may be better served if the splintered off from the LGB community…we should still ally/support one another, but they may get further on their own. Many people against trans rights think it has to do with sex- and use the prejudices they have against we gays to fight them- gender has nothing to do with sexuality!
As for the ‘Q’ in LGBTQ- it’s not Queer- it stands for Questioning….I don’t see why this needs to be included- let’s help those questioning, but they should figure things out before joining a group- having that added on maked it seem like questioning is a perpetual state.
Giancarlo85
@dave lopes: No no no. They are part of the LGBT community and have been for decades. They were there at Stonewall.
I know some of you want trans people to splinter off and go away, but that’s not happening. They may get further on their own? Yes, and did we get far on our own? Some of you people are damn delusional. We didn’t get anywhere on our own. And we need everyone in the community together. Gender may have nothing to do with sexuality, but trans people have been part of this movement since day one.
“As for the ‘Q’ in LGBTQ- it’s not Queer- it stands for Questioning….I don’t see why this needs to be included- let’s help those questioning, but they should figure things out before joining a group- having that added on maked it seem like questioning is a perpetual state.”
That’s why it’s often LGBTQQI.
lauraspencer
@dave lopes & Kamurrie….don’t engage Giancarlo85. He has a lot of anger and if you look at his posts on other threads he can’t have a rational discussion. He resorts to name calling and bullying as if he is on a playground.
Offer him a hug.
And Giancarlo85, before you attack me I have several trans friends that I love and support.
polarisfashion
@MacAdvisor: Very well spoken! I love reading the comments more than the articles. There are some really intelligent people that comment in here and I look forward to reading them. Transgender people are arguably the most discriminated against members of the LGBTQ community. We need to do everything we can to help them. It makes me sick every time I read about another suicide.
polarisfashion
@dave lopes: I thought queer and questioning meant the same thing? I read about someone that identified as queer and he said he was attracted more towards women but could see himself being attracted to a man as well. To me that almost sounds bisexual. Perhaps someone else can weigh in on this.
Giancarlo85
@lauraspencer: Weak very weak. If anyone has read any of your posts they would notice you are the one with anger problems. I think you should seek help for your issues. You are the one incapable of having a logical discussion. You are an extremely angry agitated person who has a massive ego.
Cee
Issues of what bathroom they can go to? Um, just go in the bathroom you wanna go into. I don’t see the issue. Only issue I can think of is if you’re not passable someone might call you out. Are we talking about the non-passable trans?
Nikkidane
As a Trans-woman, I appreciate what Steve Grand had to say. As far as the comment that said they did not see the connection between GLB and the T, that is just ridiculous. First of all, many Trans people evolved out of the Gay and Lesbian Community. I lived as a gay man for 30 years before I chose to transition. I grew up in the Bible Belt in the 60s and 70s and never even saw a Trans person growing up. It never dawned on me that was an option. I thought I was gay because I was attracted to men but I never really felt like I fit in that community. When, at 45, I finally stumbled across a Transgender Club I knew immediately that I connected.
Secondly, many Trans people that were heterosexual before they transitioned now become lesbians if they continue to be attracted to women. That’s very common.
Thirdly, gender variance is very prevalent in both the gay and lesbian communities. They may not consider themselves transsexual but they are clearly gender nonconforming and most discrimination of Gay and Lesbians is related to that fact.
Lastly, to the average Joe Shmoe, we are all faggots. The bigotry against gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and Trans people is all rooted in the same place. Most often it is religious based and rooted in fear and ignorance. It really is a common fight with a common adversary. I find it incredibly irritating when Gay men or Lesbians can’t connect the dots. There is nothing worse than a person who is part of an oppressed minority expressing bigotry towards a different minority group.
Nikki Hatch
He’s great!
Giancarlo85
@Nikkidane: Do not let people get you down here. I am gender nonconforming myself. Some may say androgynous and my hair is short… But I guess it has more to do with just hair.
You can’t talk sense to some… And it saddens me to see some gay men exhibit the same bigotry they were subjected with. It is hypocritical.
Tobi
I will happily support, donate, petition, march, protest, etc. for bisexual and transgender rights. I just don’t personally identify with any them.
I’ve never believed there was any advantage in lumping us all together. If it’s really changed into being just about sexual minorities, do we welcome the zoo crew with open paws and add a B-for-Bestiality too?
For me, it’s about the campaign for homosexual equality, and in my book there’s still a long, long way to go with just that single issue. I don’t see why we’re allowing every Tom, Dick & Sally to hijack our cause. Go start your own!
Bauhaus
@Tobi:
Never mind. Too complicated to explain. You just stay comfortable with your “homosexual” equality. Stay away from the zoo, B!
E T
Seems silly to me people are still going off about splintering LGBT.
It starts with getting rid of the T
Then you get rid of the B
Then you get rid of the L
Then you get rid of the G
Don’t want to be a part of the community? That’s fine. Nobody’s forcing you to sign up. But keep your misanthropic libertarianism to yourselves, or find a better outlet for it, like the Republican party and all their obsession with tea parties and Ayn Rand and being rich and/or hating poor people.
If y’all don’t want community, maybe you should stop hanging out on queer websites? Or maybe you’re here because you do want community, you’re just too afraid admit it. That would be a vulnerable thing to do, and men don’t show vulnerability, right? Good luck with that.
Giancarlo85
@Tobi: Another clueless response. And bringing up bestiality? What does that have to do with trans people? You sound like Ben Carson.
aliengod
Steve Grand needs to stick with modeling underwear. He certainly doesn’t speak for everyone in the LGB community.
Bauhaus
@aliengod:
You need to pull the stick out of your butt. Grand never made any such claim. What’s the matter, too much T this morning?
Giancarlo85
@aliengod: And you don’t speak for anyone in the LGBTQQI community.
aliengod
LGBTQQI? WTF! LOL!!! We can always count on you for a good laugh, Giancarlo85. But I’m so disappointed, you didn’t get all angry and call me names. I take it you haven’t had your coffee yet this morning.
Giancarlo85
@aliengod: You don’t speak for anyone. You are not part of the community as far as I’m concerned. You’re a selfish ungrateful bastard. There… how is that for calling you a name? By the way, that’s not name calling… it’s quite true.
aliengod
LOL… That a boy! Now there’s the Giancarlo85 we all know. You shouldn’t suppress like that. It’s not good for your already fragile mental state. Just let it out.
Bauhaus
@aliengod:
It’s amusing how you and a few others on here are critical of @Giancarlo85: and his impassioned responses to the trolls. Personally, I find his ire and colorful language like sprinkles on a cupcake.
Giancarlo85
I shouldn’t really respond to these trolls. Most likely they are straight and just trying to harass. It’s a waste of a nice sunday morning.
vive
@Giancarlo85, I know from experience that it is hard to resist, but nothing good ever comes out of feeding trolls. The worst punishment for a troll is to ignore them. That is the only way to get at them.
Jacob23
There’s no such thing as LGBT. Grand can support transgenders all he likes. It doesn’t make them part of a single people with LGBs. LGBs are defined by sexual orientation, Ts are defined by gender identity. Two different things. Two different groups. Also, I suspect that Grand is saying this as a PR move. He’s a normal, masculine, white gay male. So inevitably that will irritate some “queer” radicals. He’s getting ahead of that with a bland statement supporting transgenders. BTW, if he thinks that transgenders have “been there all the way” for LGBs, he is even dumber than I had thought. Transgenders don’t do a thing for LGBs. They bring nothing of value to the table. They don’t volunteer or contribute beyond a token amount, but they make large and incessant demands on LGBs. They sap our organizations even while maintaining their own T-only groups. They are the main reason why LGBs don’t have job protections at the federal level.
BTW, notice that by supporting his “trans brothers and sisters” he is affirming the gender binary. He thus is excluding from his support non-binary “genderqueers” and “neutrois” and a few dozen other wacko subgroups that make up the insane asylum known as transgender.
aliengod
@Jacob23: Prepare yourself. Providing such a large dose of common sense on this site will get you labeled a troll. It offends many of the wackos that comment on here to speak such truth.
Bauhaus
@Jacob23:
You make a good point: “LGBs are defined by sexual orientation, Ts are defined by gender identity.” Then, you get stupid.
We are a natural ally for each other. If anyone can and should understand and support T, it’s LGB, and vice versa. Any infighting is counterproductive. That is why LGB didn’t take the easy way out and throw T under the bus, just so we could get ours. As a PR move, what has Grand to gain?
Bauhaus
@aliengod:
But ya are Blanche, ya are a troll.
onthemark
Who took the Tomato out of the Gay Bacon Lettuce & Tomato sandwich?:
Kamuriie, aliengod, Jacob23
@Kamuriie: I don’t believe it. Oh I’m sure you’ve seen nasty anti-“cis” comments online, and we see it here on Queerty occasionally – though I’m guessing from parodic trolls who are not trans. You shouldn’t take everything online at face value. But really, you’re saying you’ve heard that stuff “in person” too? Naw, I don’t buy it. When I finally met (knowingly) some trans people in person they were great. Some problems are online-only phenomena.
@Jacob23: Yeesh. Maybe you should just stick with your speciality: spewing dangerous misinformation about HIV.
Chico
Yay! I agree. Well spoken.
Witchiepoo
I’ve pondered this LBG exclusion of T issue for a long time now and have come to the conclusion that most arguments on both sides are sadly inadequate in supporting either position. I often see inclusionists argue that T should be included because they’ve historically supported LGBs… to which, I say, who cares? Similarly, I’ve seen exclusionists argue that T should be excluded because sexual orientation and gender dysphoria are not the same thing… again, I say, who cares?
What binds us together is the fact that we’re fighting the same deep-seated ideology… that a man should take on the roll of a man, a woman should take on the roll of a woman and anyone who deviates from these rolls are either evil or disgusting… or both. I would even go as far as to include the women’s movement, considering that they are also fighting for their right to define their own rolls in society.
It saddens me deeply to see these communities arguing about whether or not we should be inclusive of each other, when there are bigger fish to fry. Every moment spent fighting amongst ourselves distracts us from fighting the real enemy… the aforementioned, fear-based ideology and those who espouse it.
Giancarlo85
@Jacob23: This post is just another big yawn and all that I expected from the passive-aggressive Jacob23. Yeah, just another windbag repeating what he said a few weeks ago about trans people. You’re transphobic we get it… do you have to keep repeating it until you turn blue?
And if you think Trans people aren’t part of the community… so? You’re not in charge of anything and you don’t determine anything. Go back to the closet you’ve been in for years.
Giancarlo85
@Jacob23: Oh this is such a gem of a post…
“He’s a normal, masculine, white gay male.”
So I take it white gay male is normal in your eyes? And feminine, gay latin male (or a gay male of a different ethnic minority) is not normal? And you also think masculine=normal right? Righhhhttttttt….
Yeah… you’ve said it all, jacob. Keep burying yourself in the pile of shit you’re in. You’re hateful little man with issues yourself.
How do people get as stupid as you? That’s a valid question I’d like to ask.
aliengod
@Giancarlo85: Your incessant whining about this topic is grating. Perhaps you should attempt to make a point when you comment. Instead, all you do is make personal attacks and repeat the same nonsensical crap over and over. What’s your point? All many of us are trying to say is that LGB has nothing to do with trans and the T should be eliminated from our acronym. You’ve provided nothing to the contrary. You can type “transphobic” all you’d like, it does nothing to further your point. I’m not afraid of trans people. I simply think their plight is different. I don’t suffer from a treatable medical condition by being a gay man.
Bauhaus
@aliengod:
Perhaps you should attempt to comprehend a point, and not be a shallow, mean spirited twit. Are you really that bitter? Good grief.
aliengod
@Bauhaus: Yet another personal attack without making a point on this topic. Shocking!
Giancarlo85
@aliengod: Your incessant bullshit is well noted. You are not actually addressing anything in here. I’ve already addressed the topics and made a few notes about what bigots like Jacob have posted. Jacob considers feminine gay men or gay men of ethnic minorities to not be normal. It is all there for everyone to see.
And what’s with your own bigoted posts and hatred towards feminine gay men? I’ve seen you voice disgust with gay men who don’t match your ideas. And it isn’t LGB. It is LGBTQQI. Learn the reality. You have no say in anything and you have no proof for anything. You are extremely transphobic and ignorant.
You haven’t attempted to read any of my valid points… and only spouted off like a blockheaded idiot.
Witchiepoo
Obviously, the group of douche bags who’ve posted here since my last post haven’t two brain cells with which to rub together in order to comprehend what I’ve said.
Keep fighting amongst yourselves until which time you will deservedly fall into obscurity.
Jacob23
@Witchiepoo: “What binds us together is the fact that we’re fighting the same deep-seated ideology.”
This is the crux of your argument. But although you intended it to be an argument in favor of LGBT, it is actually an argument against. Fighting a common foe is the basis of an alliance. It is not the basis of a common identity, the foundation of “LGBT people.” If Ts want to be allies, that’s fine. The problem is that they cannot be satisfied with an alliance. Why? Because allies retain the right to put limitations on the alliance and even to end the alliance when it no longer makes sense for it to continue. The trans activists cannot have that. They want a situation where they make demands on LGBs, and LGBs can never say “no” or “we’ll help you with X and Y, but not Z.” The only way to get complete obedience by LGBs was to invent LGBT. But it’s a fraud. It would be just as much of a fraud if LGBs, instead of seeking out the women’s movement as an ally, had announced that all women were “one community” with us, the LGBW community, and that they now had to subordinate their issues in favor of ours.
Giancarlo85
@Jacob23: Blah blah blah. You have no basis for any of your argument, except the same old hatred. You are NOT in charge of anything and you do not get to determine who is or isn’t part of our community. It is LGBTQQI. Learn it real fast. There is no such thing as “LGB”. Trans people have been part of the movement since the beginning. That faster you learn basic history the better. You won’t look so much like an ignorant stupid dumbass. You’re the real fraud here.
Clark35
@dhmonarch89: Exactly.
I’m OK with trans people as long as they’re not the hyper-critical ultra-PC ones that think that everyone and everything is “transphobic” and use the silly term “cis” as a slur towards people who are not trans.
I have met more than a few trans people who said how Trans people in general should be separate from LGB people since the majority of lesbians, bisexuals, and gays do not want a sex change or to transition at all.
1EqualityUSA
Leave nobody behind on the battle field. During the AIDS crisis the transgender community helped, did fund raising, and were included in the reindeer games. Many of the bigots make no distinction between all of us. United we stand.
YouGoGurl
@Giancarlo85: Wow, that was harsh … for the record, I believe the new PC is “LGBTQQI-EIEIO” (actually works with the tune, who knew?). I totally support the T in LGBT, although the T is nothing like the LGB, Furthermore, I don’t believe that YOU “are in charge of anything and you do not get to determine who is or isn’t part of our community,” or are you?
YouGoGurl
@1EqualityUSA: Agreed! Well put, 1Equality
Giancarlo85
@YouGoGurl: Maybe for a second you should use your brain and not talk about that “Political correctness” accusation people like you sling around. People throw that shit when they don’t have a real argument. They accuse the other person of being PC… You can go kiss my ass. I never said I was in charge of anything. I am just stating the facts.
Giancarlo85
Damn trolls. Too many on this site in recent times.
Tobi
@Giancarlo85:
“Trans people have been part of the movement since the beginning. That faster you learn basic history the better. You won’t look so much like an ignorant stupid dumbass.”
Society for Human Rights (1924), Mattachine Society (1950), Homosexual Law Reform Society (1958), etc. etc.
I think we can all see the ignorant stupid dumbass here.
Giancarlo85
@Tobi: And how am I looking like one? Some people here love to troll and deliberately exclude trans people. Trans people were there at Stonewall, and they were there earlier.
Giancarlo85
But then again you’re the stupid ignorant fucking moron who brought up bestiality.
“If it’s really changed into being just about sexual minorities, do we welcome the zoo crew with open paws and add a B-for-Bestiality too?”
By the way ass clown, Christine Jorgensen and Virginia Prince should be names you should look up. They were active in the 1950s for transgender rights. You should also look up an article published in 1957 titled “Homosexuality, Transvestism and Transsexualism” by Virginia Prince.
If you think there wasn’t any trans rights organizations around that time, and often fighting alongside gay rights (like what Prince often did), you’re fucking delusional.
Tobi
@Giancarlo85: Yup, I brought up bestiality, it’s legal in countries as diverse as Hungary to Japan. LGB has as much in common with the zoo crew as it does with the T’s, so why do you think we should exclude besties from your ever expanding menagerie? I mean, what’s your beef with them?!
Giancarlo85
@Tobi: You are just too stupid to even follow up with this. LGBT are people, not animals. You sound like Ben Carson. Go take your demented fucked up logic to a different state, you stupid fucking asshole.
Giancarlo85
And animals cannot consent. But I guess your little peanut brain doesn’t understand that. And no, it isn’t legal in hardly any countries at all.
When we talk about LGBT people we are talking about people who can consent and can sign legal documents. An animal cannot do that.
Tobi
@Giancarlo85: “LGBT are people, not animals. ” Um, not the bisexuals I’ve known. OK, we get it, you’re speciesist, you’re happier for them to be electrocuted and beheaded, plucked and fried, and then eaten… instead of being touched tenderly. You should go live in Iran, state-paid transgenderism and as a bonus you get to execute the homosexuals. It’s so you!
Giancarlo85
@Tobi: You’re a total utter moron. You should be banned off this website. You sound like a republican. Worse, a conservative douchebag idiot. If you’re trying to troll you fail miserably. You are the one that should move to Iran. You seem to be as right wing and fucked up as them.
Giancarlo85
This idiot is trying to troll… and he isn’t even trying to hide that fact. He sounds like a douchebag.
McShane
This thread is a disaster.
Jacob23
@1EqualityUSA: WTF? Raising money for AIDS 25 years ago justifies LGBT? AIDS is not a gay disease, dipsh!t. Trans people get it too. I’d love to see a comparison of the value of gay-funded services that they use at GMHC vs. the money they supposedly raised years and years ago. (And I doubt that any actual trans organization raised any money, as you assert.)
And if raising $ for AIDS makes you “one people” with LGBs, then we’re gonna need to create a letter for heteros, because they have raised vastly more money that transgenders ever did.
BTW, if it is true that some bigots make no distinction b/t LGBs and Ts, you should ask yourself why you stand with those bigots and advocate the very same approach.
Giancarlo85
@Jacob23: Trans people were at Stonewall and were part of the moment (starting with such figures like Virginia Prince (who did a lot of the LGBT community as a whole) and Christine Jorgensen. You keep it up with your hateful little lies and bigotry. And yes there were actual trans organizations did raise money. And there is nothing such thing as “LGB”. Stop trying to cut people out you don’t approve of or like, you blockheaded idiot.
You’re the real bigot and you advocate hate speech.
Bruce Dillon
CORRECT!
(*;*()
hex0
It’s LGB. Trans expect gays and lesbians to do bloody everything for them.
Larry Dillon
I’m a “G” & I support my “T’s”
BJ Cook
Agree. A “g” that’s supports the “t”
fevreddreamer
@Kamuriie: Maybe you don’t know many Transfolk then. Like LGB and straight folk, transfolk come from all walks of life and are as different as everyone else. Many transfolk identified as gay or lesbian before they transitioned. Many of them are also gay or lesbian in addition to being trans. I am a trans/gay man and have a cisgendered gay male partner.I have worked hard for decades advocating for gay right. I’ve never expected anything from my GLB brothers and sisters except to treat me with the same respect I do them and to not be as hateful and discriminatory as the fundamentalist Christian right.