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Stranger At The Table: What It Means To Be Young, Gay And Mormon In The 21st Century

angel moroni mormon LDSIt was an article in Newsweek called “To Be Gay and Mormon” that brought me from New York to Salt Lake City nearly a decade ago.

The brief story centered on gay Mormon Henry “Stuart” Matis and the difficulties he faced rectifying his faith and his sexuality. Ultimately he couldn’t: On February 25, 2000, Stuart Matis drove to a nearby Mormon church headquarters and shot himself in the head.

I couldn’t comprehend how a gay man could kill himself over religion in the 21st century. Did this really happen? And why?

So, in 2005, I spent a year researching what it meant to be gay and Mormon, working toward writing a play about Stuart’s struggle. I went to Salt Lake to get first-hand accounts from people going through the same struggle. That’s how I met Dylan at a Barnes & Noble Starbucks in Gateway Mall.

“Are you Roman?” a wavering voice asked.

I looked up to see a young kid, who couldn’t have been over the legal drinking age. (His tousled hair, thin frame and acne-flecked baby face said maybe 16.) The idea that torment was coursing though this boy wasn’t evidenced by his youthful charm.

We introduced ourselves and I offered him something to drink. He declined. “Right. The coffee thing,” I reminded myself. I explained briefly what I was doing there in Salt Lake, and told him that he could begin the question and answers with me if it made him feel less nervous. I turned on my recorder and we dove right in.

Silence at first, then in a low, even register he said, “I tried to kill myself with a pencil.” His tone was grave.

“I’m sorry?” I balked, as if I hadn’t heard him correctly.

Dylan, who was actually 20, had come to terms with his same-gender attraction (SGA) four months prior. He was skeptical about being interviewed—so much so that he almost canceled on me. He admitted that he almost ran back to his car in the parking lot three times. Considering the Mormon Church’s history with homosexual members, I wasn’t surprised.

In the end, he decided it was in his best interest to go through with it. “I prayed about it,” he told me. “It’s the right thing to do.”

“I can’t trust the people but I still believe in the gospel—my understanding of the gospel.”

But he was still a complete mess.

“I did. I tried to force a pencil into my chest. I just thought it was the easiest way to kill myself,” he explained. “First I tried to hang myself with a towel. Then I tried the pencil. When I couldn’t get it to pierce my skin I tried to put it in my neck—but it hurt a lot.”

So Dylan, a Salt Lake native, took some sleeping pills and just started driving around. “I was praying really hard that someone would just slam right into me and end my life for me. But no one did.”

According to a survey conducted by the LGBT Mormon group Affirmations, 57% of gay and lesbian Mormons have considered or attempted suicide.

The day after taking the pills, Dylan went to see his bishop. “He was surprised. He told me that my homosexuality was a test from God. He said, ‘In life you can have a wrong answer and still fix it, but, suicide, there’s no fixing.’” Dylan’s bishop also assured him he could be cured of his homosexuality as long as he didn’t “act on his impulses.’”

After Dylan came out, though, his bishop canceled his mission, the two-year trip most young Mormons take to spread the Gospel around the world. “I was really upset because I had saved up my entire life to serve a mission for the Church,” Dylan explained. “I started to feel really depressed, you know? I mean, I had told my parents when I first realized I was gay.”

His parents told Dylan they suspected as much: “They’re very busy people and just sort of reacted like, ‘Well, if this is what you want to be,’ and moved on. Then, when I told my bishop, they had a bigger reaction. It was weird.”

Dylan, who was attending the University of Utah at the time, said he was definitely born gay: “Nobody ever taught this to me. In high school, I was never interested in dating girls. They were really just friends. And then it hit me: I’m gay.”

BOOK OF MORMONI asked him what he thought about the Church and its stance on gay Mormons.

“They send a very confusing message. To a certain degree I understand the Church’s stance: Don’t act on these emotions and don’t go around and fuck someone and you’ll be okay. But that doesn’t allow me to be who I am. My mom and dad can be who they are and follow Christ’s message. What can’t I? God made me, right?”

Despite his crisis of faith, Dylan still strongly believed in the Church’s core tenets: “I believe the Book of Mormon is true,” he told me. “I just don’t think the Church has gotten its revelation on what’s going on with me… with us.”

He explains there are two parts to the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints: The body of people and the gospel. “I can’t trust the people but I still believe in the gospel—my understanding of the gospel.”

Dylan’s not alone: More and more gay Mormons are looking at their faith, their Church and their Christ, and questioning what is being asked of them.

The LDS Church appears to be extending the olive branch of late: A new website, MormonsAndGays.org, seems to be trying to begin a three-way dialogue between the Church, its gay members and their straight counterparts. But is it a step in the right direction or just some public-relations window-dressing?

Considering the Church’s track record on homosexuality, gay Mormons are wise to be skeptical. From electro-shock therapy in the 1970s to reparative therapy in the 21st century, the LDS  hierarchy has made it clear it’s not comfortable with homosexuality.

Even MormonsAndGays.org has the proviso “The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is.”

That doesn’t leave much wiggle room. But maybe there’s more to this—maybe.

The Church has been able to bring to bear its formidable monetary, organizational and human resources to achieve a conservative agenda that directly impacts of millions of non-Mormons. In California alone, the LDS Church mobilized 80-90% of the door-to-door volunteers, and almost half of the $40 million raised, to push Proposition 8—even though Mormons make up less than 2% of the state’s population.

The tenets of the religion are deeply entrenched in all aspects of the culture: There is virtually no corner of people’s lives that is not prescribed by church doctrine. Home and family are at the very heart of Mormonism, and those are conceived exclusively in heterosexual terms. In fact, marriage and the “eternal family” are considered essential to salvation and heavenly happiness.

An aspect of Mormonism that holds major import for gay members is the belief that the church’s leaders, called prophets, continue to receive revelations from God. A policy on a question of personal conduct such as homosexuality can become religious law merely by a church leader stating he received divine instruction about it.

CristoObedience is another cornerstone: to God, to church authorities, to Mormon law, and to authority figures within the home, school and workplace. But with no built-in facility for evolution, there’s little place for gays. It’s impossible to conceive of being truly Mormon without adopting a lifestyle of heterosexual marriage and children.

And yet, for many queer Mormons, it’s increasingly impossible to conform to that mold. Especially now that change is afoot in the larger culture.

It’s no wonder LGBT Mormons have a substantially higher suicide rate. (Actually, according to the Utah Department of Health, Utah’s suicide rate overall has been higher than the U.S. average for the last decade.)

“From a public relations perspective it would be easier for the Church to simply accept homosexual behavior,” reads MormonsAndGays.org. “That we cannot do, for God’s law is not ours to change. There is no change in the Church’s position of what is morally right. But what is changing— and what needs to change — is to help Church members respond sensitively and thoughtfully when they encounter same-sex attraction in their own families, among other Church members, or elsewhere.”

For a religion that’s a hair under 200 years old, the Mormon faith is really missing out on a major opportunity:  By embracing its gay children—and not simply having “conversations” about them—the Church could set a precedent. It could be the forward-thinking faith, and a catalyst for change across religious denominations.

It could do the right thing, and follow in Christ’s footsteps by welcoming all, regardless of sexual orientation.

The Church has changed its laws before—African-Americans members weren’t allowed to be priesthood holders as recent as 1978. (And let’s not forget the whole plural-marriage thing.) It can change its laws again.

The Mormon Church has an obligation to learn from its own history of being ostracized, harassed and discriminated against, and welcome its LGBT children into the flock openly, as God intended.

 

ROMAN FEESERRoman Fesser is the writer of a play about Stuart Matis, Missa Solemnis, or The Play About Henry, which opened in 2008 at the TBG Theatre in NYC and the Rose Wagner Theatre in Salt Lake. He is currently working on A Stranger at the Table: Why God Hates Gay Mormons, a journalistic memoir of his experiences in Utah. He resides in New York City.

 


  • 48 Comments
    • Cam
      Cam

      Queerty,

      This is another example. first you guys stop reporting all together on the numerous anti-gay activities of the Mormon Church and refrain from pointing out that NOM is majority funded through the Mormon and Catholic churches.

      Then you have tried multiple times to publicize the website “Mormons and Gays” and keep referring to it as an olive branch. Perhaps you might want to ask some Mormons about the site. The church hasn’t changed, it is all for show. The church is still saying that gays can’t act on their feelings, and yes they are still excommunicating gays and telling families to shun them. Every single Mormon friend I have who is gay has lost at LEAST one gay Mormon friend to suicide.

      I get that the church might be funding some part of the site, because only that would explain your reticence to report on them honestly, but you are really doing a disservice to gays to continue to try to whitewash them.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 3:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AxelDC
      AxelDC

      I was friends with Stuart at BYU. He was a wonderful guy, tall, handsome, intelligent, and pleasant to be around. He served a mission in Italy and was conversant in world affairs. He loved to debate the topics of the day, and we loved to watch the NFL together even though he cheered for the 49ers and I cheered for the Cowboys. I was horrified to learn how he died so young and so painfully. It still pains me to this day to think of how he suffered and died. In a better world, we might have even dated if we had both been free to be ourselves in an open environment.

      As a gay Mormon myself, I know the pain of growing up in such a homophobic church, that teaches your friends and family that you are horrible sinner just because you are gay. Stuart was the first of 3 gay Mormon friends who have taken their lives. At no point has the LDS Church ever acknowledge its role in their deaths. Instead, they continue to preach their vitriolic method of hatred towards gays. They continue to fund antigay groups like NOM that fight against our rights.

      I wish that Stuart had had the strength to come out and realize the the LDS Church is a fraud. I wish that he could have told his parents where to stick it and found love in his life. Instead, he tried to do what the church told him, and in the end he blew his brains out on the steps of his chapel. Nothing can give him back the 50 years of his life he gave up that day.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 3:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little-Kiwi
      Little-Kiwi

      I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – the only good Mormon is an ex-Mormon.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 2eo
      2eo

      @Cam: This site is depressingly pro mormon, and completely whitewashes anything to do with the church and it’s nutcase followers and practitioners.

      As I’ve said quite a few times now Outbrain are one of the key targetted advertisers on Queerty, and they are mormon owned, and the money they give is NOT insignificant either. It does not surprise me in the slightest this is happening.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 4:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kurt_t
      kurt_t

      Engaging and informative as this post is, I look at what Roman’s written here, and I want to say– and I say this a lot– “This is what I mean when I say that religion looks like an abusive relationship to me.”

      People in abusive relationships will negotiate with their abusers for all sorts of liberties that the rest of us just take for granted– going out with your friends, having your mom over for dinner, getting your hair done, making a phone call. And they negotiate for freedom from the abuse. And when they win small concessions, they might tell you “Oh my boyfriend/girlfriend/husband promised not to tear my hair out and punch me the next time I commit a transgression, and he/she’s thinking about letting me go get a manipedi at the mall next weekend. We’re really making progress. It’s going to be a whole new relationship from here on out.”

      And if you’ve known somebody in an abusive relationship, you’ve probably had conversations like that, and thought to yourself “No, you’re not making progress at all. You’ve spent your life negotiating, and it’s gotten you nowhere. Your problem is the relationship itself. The abuse doesn’t stop until you leave.”

      So I look at somebody who says “My religion might let me be gay and celibate.” or “My religion might let me have a same-sex spouse some day” or “My religion might let me teach my children the Theory of Evolution some day” or “My religion might stop making me wear a burqua some day. I just have to keep working at it.” And I say “No you need to STOP working at it. You need to leave. You and your religion have a sick, abusive relationship, and you need to get it out of your life.”

      Mar 8, 2013 at 6:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ScaryRussianHeather
      ScaryRussianHeather

      Everything in this editorial is from 13 and 5 years ago. So why now? OHHH I see. New book coming out by the author about himself – writing the play from 5 years ago.

      How about some NEW material that’s actually helpful. Like co-authoring with Benjie Schwimmer, a poignant important story that would actually give guidance to people stuck in their faith who need inspiration and confirmation.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 6:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MK Ultra
      MK Ultra

      This is probably the worst propaganda piece I’ve read in weeks.
      You’d have to be a real dumb bird to believe that mormons are anything but anti-gay nazis, and that their “pro-gay” propaganda is anything but PR.

      Right off the bat, the author mentions “same gender attraction” or SGA.
      In propaganda this is what’s known as labeling. Mormons are labeling being gay as a clinical disorder! It’s like saying mormonism is ‘hyper schizophrenic pro delusional anti human sociopathic disorder’ <—- There you go, friends. The clinical name for mormon8sm.
      Next the author refers to "the olive branch" of the website 'Mormons and gays". This is what's known in propaganda as "factoid", or lies and innuendo. The website talks LGBT kids INTO suicide, and uses a number of known pschological terror/manipulation techniques. Hardly an "olive branch"
      Next the author uses Glittering Generalizations to present the mormon church in the best (and dreadfully unrealistic) light -"they're all about family and god etc…"
      The truth is the the mormon church uses several cult brainwashing manuevers that are well known to psychologists. Mormons are all about control. There's no more or no less to it than that.

      This, the straight mormon who claimed he was gay but married to a woman, the fake video about the celibate gay teen coming out to his supportive family, the raving mormon lunatics showing up at Utah pride – all fake, all propaganda, all dangerous. This article is just another brainwashing attempt that for some reason ($$$) Queerty keeps advocating.
      The mormon church is not to be believed now, nor are they ever to be believed. Scientology is more legit than the mormon church. That's saying a lot.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 6:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 2eo
      2eo

      @MK Ultra: To be fair, I just had a scan over the Blogosphere and his mormon play was universally panned, except funnily enough by pro mormon blogs. There isn’t a good review of it by anyone actually fit to judge anywhere.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 7:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      Jesus said, “Learn of me”.

      Not somebody or something else.

      Paul wrote ….
      1. “Come BOLDLY to the throne of grace”

      2. “WORK OUT YOUR OWN salvation or understanding”.

      Don’t let any one or any group stand in your way.

      Peter said that we shouldn’t “lord it over others”.

      Cult likeness always “lord it over others”.

      You may believe there’s nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who don’t feel guilty for doing something they have decided is right…….Romans 14:22

      Or think of it this way —

      “Happy is the boy or girl or man or woman who do not condemn themselves for the things that they allow or approve of”.

      Or simply put, we don’t condemn ourselves because we are LGBT because we realize how good and fulfilling and happy this makes us be and then we realize that “THIS IS THE WORK OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN US”.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 7:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      You know, Queerty is easily one of my favorite queer internet spaces. However, this white-washing of what some of these religious institutions are with regards to our community has got to stop. We all know that the majority of Christians, regardless of denomination, absolutely hate us. It’s in their book, and, to them, their book is all that matters. This is particularly true of the LDS and RCC churches, which are two of the most rabidly anti-LGBT outfits around. In fact, lest you forget, we have the LDS church to thank for Prop 8. Bearing all of that in mind, Why the hell are there articles on an LGBT website promoting them as anything but the Nazis that they are?

      Mar 8, 2013 at 8:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tookietookie
      tookietookie

      I’ve had comments regarding the truth about actual Mormon doctrines deleted from this website. No explanation. I was raised in Mormonism and did a mission and everything, but some Mormon lawyer scared Queerty and my comments were deleted. This was during the ill-fated Romney candidacy.

      I don’t know how many gay Mormons still in the church visit this website, but I give a message to you. It is not true. That is very painful to hear, because you’ve wasted time. But…que sera. The process of leaving Mormonism starts with “I am gay”, but there’s much more after that. It takes years to unpack the lies and reorient yourself to the actual world and something called “facts”. It takes drawing back, getting perspective…a broader view. You don’t have a broader view especially those of you who feel pressured and think about things like killing yourselves. WHOA! Wrong answer!

      Please, please, please. Wait.

      You knew who you were from Day 1. Your intuitions are correct, but it takes time to understand and ACCEPT yourself. Please quit being compulsively nice and “understanding”. They are not understanding of you. You are right, they are wrong. No whackjob cosmology bs comes into play. Just life. Live your life. Be the wonderful person you are. There are divine forces pulling for you that the debased Mormons know nothing about. Enjoy a tactile, real, incarnated, god-blessed, messy, wonderful, real, meaningful life. As not one single true blue dur-dee-dur Mormon knows it.

      Change what you understand of the word ‘believe’.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 9:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @Shannon1981: 10

      Good last question, “Why the hell are there articles on an LGBT website promoting them as anything but the Nazis that they are?

      I ask the same also.

      I wonder if it has anything to do with the ownership of this website ?

      But then again, “knowledge is power”.

      And that “knowledge” gives us an understanding of the issues that surround us.

      An effort should always be made to expose the nature of these issues.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 10:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @tookietookie: 11

      Your last paragraph from No.10 is OK.

      Well said.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 10:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      I meant to say that your last paragraph from your No. 11 is OK.

      “You knew who you were from Day 1. Your intuitions are correct, but it takes time to understand and ACCEPT yourself. Please quit being compulsively nice and “understanding”. They are not understanding of you. You are right, they are wrong. No whackjob cosmology bs comes into play. Just life. Live your life. Be the wonderful person you are. There are divine forces pulling for you that the debased Mormons know nothing about. Enjoy a tactile, real, incarnated, god-blessed, messy, wonderful, real, meaningful life……Change what you understand of the word ‘believe’.”

      Mar 8, 2013 at 10:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mighty
      mighty

      I will not be part of any website that carries water for the LDS or any other religious anti gay organization. I highly recommend Queerty find alternative funding sources. Do Neo Nazi groups fund Jewish websites? This is messed up.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 11:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LaTeesha
      LaTeesha

      So Dylan, a Salt Lake native, took some sleeping pills and just started driving around. “I was praying really hard that someone would just slam right into me and end my life for me. But no one did.”

      What a selfish twit. He could have killed somebody while he was driving around impaired.

      Mar 8, 2013 at 11:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • randallreynolds
      randallreynolds

      The Mormon Cult is our enemy, and they will always be our enemy.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 12:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Billysees: One thing I miss about old Queerty that they lost under new ownership is the “tell it like it is” kind of atmosphere. This version is softer, particularly with regards to religious cults. Not sure why that is, but the only logical explanation is the new ownership.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 8:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ho
      ho

      HEY MITT;

      A GAY MORMON CAN HAVE MULTIPLE HUSBANDS. AWESOME.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 10:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      None of you will be flying to the planet Kolob.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 10:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LaTeesha
      LaTeesha

      @Shannon1981: That’s because Queerty is like the illegitimate love child that would result if People Magaizne & the National Enquirer had a baby. It tries to be cute, fashionable, and trendy but kinda comes off like a crazy relative spouting some weird sh*t.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 10:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dan Avery (Editor)
      Dan Avery (Editor)

      I’m not really sure how anyone could read this feature and think it was whitewashing or pro-Mormon. The writer clearly relates the pain and suffering LGBT Mormons are going through, and calls on the Church to change its way. (The term Same-Sex Attraction is mentioned once because that’s the terminology the LDS Church uses.)

      As for Queerty being an apologist for the Mormon Church or any other anti-gay institution, not sure where that came from, either: We don’t get money from any LDS-owned company, have never gotten a letter from an LDS lawyer (threatening or otherwise), and regularly report on the activities of homophobic religious organizations.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 11:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Dan Avery, It was during the dark ages, of the Romney run, that we concluded Queerty’s support for the sleaze-bag, dog abusing, “hair stylist” running for the GOP. Even when 300 Mormons left the church en masse, nary a word about it. Even when the spurious cult was signing onto NOM’s roster, nothing. Also, recent pro Huntsman articles don’t help either. We have been maligned by the Mormon Church and the wounds have yet to fully heal, so any pro LDS anything is suspect. Prop H8 is still too fresh to forgive this counterfeit cult that has no archaeological nor historical basis. Romney was a pud and wasn’t treated as such by Queerty. How else are we to take this kind of “Mittins” on treatment of one so venomously anti-gay that the NOM pledge to undermine our community at every turn, including SCOTUS was endorsed whole-heartedly. Mormons gross me out, but liars who are Mormon gross me out even more.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 11:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dan Avery
      Dan Avery

      But there’s nothing pro-LDS in this story. Your claim that we’re apologists comes from your belief we didn’t attack the Church enough, which is really subjective. We’ve featured many stories critical of the church—its involvement in Prop 8 and other nefarious doings.

      Jon Huntsman’s stance for marriage equality has been widely reported by every LGBT and mainstream news outlet in America. It would be irresponsible not to report on it.

      If there have been LDS stories we haven’t covered, its because of the sheer number of issues facing the larger international LGBT community mean we cant get to everything, not that we have some kind of pro-LDS agenda.

      Dan Avery
      Editor
      Queerty.com

      Mar 9, 2013 at 12:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @Dan Avery:

      Dan, The fact is that most of the posters have noticed. Queerty has time to run ridiculous posts on some Random Jewish Rabbi who doesn’t like gays that is not an official rep of any of the Jewish denominations. And Queerty will seem to forget to run articles that the Jewish denominations are one of the only large churches in the U.S. that approve of gay marriage. You have also mentioned that phony Momon and gays site multiple times and rather than referring to it as a retread of the same attitudes the LDS church has always had, you always refer to it as it if is somehow a great thing or an “Olive Branch”

      And YET, comparatively Queerty will fewer to no stories on the fact that the Mormon Church is the single largest funder of anti-gay ballot initiatives against gays in this country along with the Catholics. You mention Prop 8. Well what about the millions that NOM poured into fighting gay rights in other states? Oh that’s right, Queerty refuses to point out that NOM gets the majority of it’s funding from the LDS church and Catholic even though other major newspapers actually refer to NOM as a “Mormon Front Group”.

      As for not receiving any money from Mormon related businesses. That is interesting since the former owner of Queerty let the posters know that the Mornon church was trying to put some money in here because they didn’t like the stories being run against them. Suddenly new owners, and no stories on Mormons, but multiple stories about Isreal, gays who lie about being gay bashed etc…
      And please don’t even TRY to say that you don’t have time or space to run articles on the largest threat to gay rights in the nation when you have articles up about Mylie Cyrus or some Lady GaGa. That excuse doesn’t hold water.

      Lastly, lets just say you are telling the truth and Queerty isn’t whitewashing. Then doesn’t it seem odd to you that ALL of the posters on here have that impression? Doesn’t that say that perhaps you should rethink that?

      Mar 9, 2013 at 1:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      hmmm, why am I in moderation?

      Mar 9, 2013 at 1:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      ahhh…let’s try again… I think I know why.

      @LaTeesha: Well, I like the snark, that’s the biggest reason I come here. I am a naturally snarky person, and that comes across in everything I write on the internet. It just makes me uneasy that an LGBT website posts anything that even hints that the LDS is anything but a rabidly homophobic, rac**st, dangerous religious cult.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • viveutvivas
      viveutvivas

      It means that you are wasting your youth (and not in a good way).

      Mar 9, 2013 at 1:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Scott Gatz
      Scott Gatz · Queerty Editor

      @2eo: Where do you get that info about Outbrain. They were founded by two Isrealis and funded by California and Isreali Venture Capital firms. I don’t get where your assertion (that you’ve repeated here before) comes from.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 6:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MK Ultra
      MK Ultra

      Personally I just have a problem with the author’s curious contextualization of the various scenarios being discussed. It makes the whole “call for change in the church” seem terribly disingenuous.
      Why use their terms, like “same-sex attraction”, thereby legitimizing them.
      The article could seem like a back handed compliment, which is typical of the Mormon attitude towards LGBT.
      Something like, “These close-knitt, god fearing, moral, good, gracious believers need to change their attitudes towards those poor, same sex-afflicted losers”.
      Perhaps I’m wrong, but I still think it’s important not to let the other side define anything, and not to aid them in doing so by using and spreading their labels and myths ourselves.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 7:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @Shannon1981: 18

      Like most all article and news organizations, their motto is probably to print all the things that are fit to print and that also stir up their readership.

      What’s nicer or softer to me is the near lack of gay haters that come here. That happened after they required all to register.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 8:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      Churches are a like a stepping stone.

      They are propagators of “spiritual knowledge”, and that is beneficial.

      Enter them to learn “spiritual things”, and then go forth to live and serve accordingly.

      The best thing to do is to separate the “things about the faith” and “church stuff”.

      Churches too often get to big and wealthy, then think of themselves as “gods”.

      And then they wind up preaching and teaching about themselves and their doctrinal beliefs.

      As for me, I wanna know about “the faith” and related knowledge.

      I wanna learn about stuff that’s important.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 9:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tidalpool
      tidalpool

      Oddly, I received the same remark from my Bishop when I came out. My Bishop being a Roman Catholic however. “We cannot change our law, its not ours to change, it is Gods law”….so much for me asking where I might find acceptance for how God had created me. I did not accept my Bishops opinion, I went to my bible, and to prayer. I knew God loved me, he repeated it often enough. I knew I was born a man, under sin, and that I must follow as nearly as possible God’s commandments against sin. I found the man I loved, and after a year, we chose to commit ourselves to each other. This January its been 34 years. I followed my heart, my God and my nature, and found my love returned from all. God does not make mistakes, only man has that problem.

      Mar 9, 2013 at 11:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Here is something posted just a few days ago….
      Where a Mormon “Apostle Elder” likens gays and others disagreeing with the church’s anti-gay activities to rac-ists intimidating blacks.
      Yes, the church leaders are saying that They, the ones attacking gay civil rights, are like blacks, and that the gays, just wanting our rights are somehow like the KKK.
      Funny how Queerty missed this story.

      http://utah.backpage.com/LegalServices/mormon-leader-likens-anti-gay-marriage-backlash-to-intimidation-of-blacks-during-civil-rights/1508512

      Mar 10, 2013 at 8:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Spike
      Spike

      Gay and mormon, are you fucking serious? Wake up, religion is nothing more then social programming. De-program yourself and get as far away from the haters as you can, that’s all that is needed. Trying to make it work or find a middle road is a HUGE waste of time. The same goes for every other homophobic religion. Get a life, stop whining about the religion you were raised to believe in, find something else to believe in. Religion is just a crutch for the weak minded followers . . . mormons being the most weak minded.

      Mar 10, 2013 at 11:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @tidalpool: 33

      No. 33 – tidalpool

      What an excellent testimony you’ve written.

      You’ve worked out “your own” relationship or salvation or understanding or the things that you know are important and very meaningful to you as the NT says.

      You’ve “come boldly to the throne of grace” as the NT also says.

      “As for the faith you do have, have it as your own conviction before God. How blessed is the person who has no reason to condemn himself because of what he approves!”………Romans 14:22 (other parallel translations — http://bible.cc/romans/14-22.htm )

      Let’s declare these things from the rooftops.

      Mar 10, 2013 at 11:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Billysees, If my memory serves, you left out the part about not providing a stumbling block for others a few verses down from the verse you quoted. If we do something that causes another to stumble, that’s not love…etc. Don’t cherry pick in the other direction now.

      Mar 10, 2013 at 11:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @Spike: 35

      Here’s a better thing to do —

      The Book says to “overcome evil with good”.

      Let’s overcome churches and their poorly applied and unapplicable commentary about us by showing them that we are better and more deserving than such comments.

      Read No. 33 by tidalpool as an illustration.

      Mar 10, 2013 at 11:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @1EqualityUSA: 37

      What part was left out ? I looked on down from Romans 14:22 and couldn’t locate what I think you mean.

      Cherry pickin’ is OK as I see it.

      It’s a way of understanding things.

      Some will “pick” against us and I enjoy “pickin’ in the other direction as a counter balance.

      Whatever it takes to get the job done.

      What’s the job before us — LGBT acceptance and equality.

      Mar 10, 2013 at 12:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Keep reading somewhere towards the end of ch14vs21(?) perhaps before the verse you quoted. The idea is plain as day

      Mar 10, 2013 at 12:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @1EqualityUSA: 40

      I found — “The right thing to do is to avoid eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that makes your brother stumble, upset, or weak……..Romans 14:21

      Please explain the meaning and purpose of your comment, “If we do something that causes another to stumble, that’s not love…etc. Don’t cherry pick in the other direction now.”

      Your answer should add clarity here.

      I didn’t know that my original scripture quote shown below was inappropriate or causing somebody to stumble —

      “As for the faith you do have, have it as your own conviction before God. How blessed is the person who has no reason to condemn himself because of what he approves!”………Romans 14:22 (other parallel translations — http://bible.cc/romans/14-22.htm )

      Mar 10, 2013 at 12:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Pardon the Dick and Jane version, less poetic, but it clarifies the Greek words, one of which can encompass a whole paragraph…Romans Chapter 14:

      12 And so each of us shall give an account of himself—give an answer in reference to judgement—to God.

      13 Then let us no more criticize and blame and pass judgement on one another, but rather decide and endeavor never to put a stumbling block or an obstacle or a hindrance in the way of a brother.

      14 I know and am convinced (persuaded) as one in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is [forbidden as] essentially unclean–that is, defiled and unholy in itself. But [none the less] it is unclean (defiled and unholy) to any one who thinks it is unclean.

      15 But if your brother is being pained or his feelings hurt or if he is being injured by what you eat, [then] you are no longer walking in love.–That is, you have ceased to be living and conducting yourself by the standard of love toward him. Do not let what you eat hurt or cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died!

      16 Do not therefore let what seems good to you be considered an evil thing [by someone else]. –[In other words], do not give occasion for others to criticize that which is justifiable for you.

      17 [After all,] the kingdom of God is not a matter of [getting the] food and drink [one likes], but instead, it is righteousness–that state which makes a person acceptable to God–and heart-peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

      18 He who serves Christ in this way is acceptable and pleasing to God and is approved by men.

      19 So let us then definitely aim for and eagerly pursue what makes for harmony and for mutual upbuilding (edification and development) of one another.

      20 You must not, for the sake of food, undo and break down and destroy the work og God!Everything is indeed (ceremonially) clean and pure, but it is wrong for any one to hurt the conscience of others or to make them fall by what he eats.

      21 The right thing is to eat no meat or drink no wine [at all], or [do anything else] if it [hurts your brother's conscience or] makes him stumble, or offends or weakens him.

      So, Billysees, the verse you quoted out of context serves only your purpose (the job at hand). If you are going to quote from the Bible, at least be honest enough to include the entire premise and let others decide for themselves how to feel about it. Clearly everyone on the planet fails at the ideas presented, but lying by omission to serve your own purpose is underhanded and sneaky and I don’t trust it. It would be better to not quote the Book if you are going to do it in this fashion. I hope this doesn’t offend you. Your heart is in the right place, but respect for the words in which you ascribe should take precedent. I have to go clean house now. Happy Sunday to you.

      Mar 10, 2013 at 12:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @1EqualityUSA: 42

      I apologize for offending you by my comments.

      Mar 10, 2013 at 1:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kjq
      kjq

      Content of article completely aside, I object to the amateurish level of the writing. The article is loaded with cliched phrases, sentimental imagery, and even glaring misuse of words.

      The author lost me with the second sentence. “Rectify” does not mean what it seems the author thinks it does. I think he was reaching for “reconcile” and missed. Remainder of article just as bad. Hard to take the article seriously given the obvious lack of skill here, play produced or not.

      And just a note on author bios: you are the “author” of a play, not the “writer.”

      Mar 10, 2013 at 3:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AxelDC
      AxelDC

      The fact that the editor responded once to the comments here indicates that this article was a failure. The fact that the editor responded to the comments on his comments indicate that his response was a failure.

      Any author that has to wade into the comments section to defend his works would be better spending his time learning how to clearly express his ideas instead of lashing out at those who rightly criticize him.

      As for Queerty, the LDS Church is one of the greatest threats to gay rights in the US. Queerty instead focuses on minor Jewish splinter sects while the Mormons spend millions funding NOM. The previous owners told us that the Mormon Church tried to buy its compliance on Queerty. The current owners seem to have taken the bait at the cost of their journalistic integrity.

      If Queerty doesn’t want its readership base complaining, or worse, abandoning this site, then it should focus on criticizing those who most threaten us.

      Mar 11, 2013 at 9:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Dan Avery: The thing is, there should be no features on a gay website calling for change in any rabidly homophobic institution, LDS or otherwise. When you run that kind of thing, you are giving false hope to young, scared, confused kids, making them think that these cults will change. They won’t. You know they won’t. So why be so irresponsible as to pretend that there is a chance that they will? The longer any LGBT person believes that there is a chance the LDS, RCC, Pentecostals, Southern Baptists, or anyone else like that can or will change, the more hurt they will experience. Do you really want to feed into that?

      Mar 11, 2013 at 2:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @Shannon1981: 46

      Don’t forget, “LDS, RCC, Pentecostals, Southern Baptists, or anyone else…..” are pride filled, advertising-propaganda machines that’ll do or say anything to gain and maintain attention.

      Cheer…

      Mar 12, 2013 at 2:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      To add on to what Shannon Said.

      Queerty and it’s editors might think “Well gee, we’ll take a few dollars from the Mormons, and that will help us continue to run and that is good for the gay community!”

      I would like to answer that by saying, what if some distressed 17 year old is reading Queerty from some small town in Idaho, sees that Queerty has mentioned that phony site the Mormon church keeps trumpeting and then clicks on it only to be told they are bad, their feelings are bad, they need to try to get cured etc…

      You are dabbling in very dangerous waters Queerty.

      Mar 12, 2013 at 2:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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