Queerty is better as a member
I already responded to this on Huffington Post and even have it listed on my facebook but here goes. I don’t know why this is on Queerty. This boy has not given an indication that he is gay, a drag queen, transexual, or transgendered. Most likely he is a transvestite. Prom is not about getting your sexual kicks so if indeed he is a transvestite, (A str8 man who receives sexual gratification by dressing as a woman), then he should not be allowed to wear the dress. If he is transexual or transgendered then yes allow him to.
@Chad Hunt: Well said.
Let him wear the dress. Just don’t DARE invite me to one of your “anti-bullying” marketing events.
Is it even 18 yet?
Okay, I tried to calmly walk away from these comments and not respond but I feel I have to because they are insulting.
Clothes are clothes and who wears them should not be dictated by biological sex.
According to the article the young student wants to wear the clothes to feel better. We should all want to feel better and allow others to feel better about themselves through expression and interests.
If this were young men wearing dresses to purposefully insult someone that would be different.
Also using ‘it’ is horrible. And yes, this article is a ‘gay interest’ story, so I feel it has a place on Queerty. You didn’t have to click on the article and its place does not detract or take the place of other articles.
@brief12H: You must be reading a different story than me because no where does it say he is wearing female clothes to feel better, he says he is more comfortable in them. He does not elaborate on what that comfort stems from. He gives no indication that he is transgendered, transexual, gay, a drag queen, or anything. If he wants to wear a “dress” simply for “comfort” as he stated then I propose he wear a Muslim or Hindu styled male traditional garb, perhaps a kilt or other high fashion styled male dress.
I certainly don’t think you would be spotting your clothes are clothes rhetoric if he wanted to wear a babies onesie, or footy pajamas complete with diaper, and a pacifier to the prom. Perhaps he is more “comfortable” being a nudist, where does it end.
I simply posted if he was a boy wanting to wear the dress because he was a transvestite then he shouldn’t be allowed to because prom is not a place for sexual gratification. I also stated if he was just a transvestite then this isn’t a “LGBTQ” issue. I also stated that if he was trans in any capacity he should be allowed to wear the dress so please point out exactly where I was insulting.
Chad… This is a GLBT issue… The T also includes Transvestites… They were at Stonewall where the riot began. Yes it is true that Transgendereds have renamed them as “cross dressers; but that was not by choice.
If we really are “inclusive” then we should support him in his quest
@JAW: Transvestite’s are str8 men who get sexual gratification from dressing in women’s clothes. Str8 men are not part of the gay civil rights movement. Sexual Gratification is not a reason to allow a person to wear an outfit to the prom. So sorry, you are a little off base here. Transvestitism is a sexual fetish not a person who is born that way which is what civil rights is all about.
@Chad Hunt: I think maybe you are going by an old definition of transvestitism. During the stonewall riots what we today would call drag queens, transexuals, or transgendered is what was considered then as a transvestite. Today, with the new updated definitions within the trans community transvestites are generally considered str8 men who dress in woman’s clothes purely for sexual gratification.
Let me quote Ms. Noxeema Jackson from To Wong Fu, “When a straight man puts on a dress and gets his sexual kicks, he is a transvestite. When a man is a woman trapped in a man’s body and has a little operation, he is a transsexual. When a gay man has WAY too much fashion sense for one gender, He IS!, A Drag Queen. And when a tired little Latin boy puts on a dress, he is simply a boy in a dress!” LOL
Of course now there is a new term called transgendered. It gets a lil confusing but basically it is a person born a man who internally is a woman but chooses not to have the operation so they are simply a woman who happens to have a penis and male features.
@Chad Hunt: meant to direct comment #8 to you and not myself. Opps
We let women wear pants which they traditionally were not allowed to wear. So why not the reverse? The pope wears a dress. Judges wear dresses; they just call them robes. What if he was of Scottish descent and wanted to wear a kilt? Nothing wrong with that. Middle-eastern men wear dresses; they just call them robes.
@Daniel-Reader: … I already said if it was about comfort to don a middle eastern robe, kilt, etc. However, let’s be frank. There is nothing wrong with preserving a time honored tradition. You wouldn’t tell a child in a thanksgiving day pageant to wear a Santa Claus suit because he was comfortable or because it made them feel better. If he is a boy who identifies as a boy then he should wear what tradition dictates in a time honored rite of passage engagement. Certainly there are exceptions to the rule, again, transexuals or transgendered. To change tradition for nothing more than the sake of change or to make yourself more “comfortable” is ridiculous. There does have to be a limit to what we allow as acceptable or else anything is acceptable.
However after having said all of this … The boy could be trans … I don’t know, the article doesn’t say. If he is then by all means I hope he is allowed to wear the dress.
“There does have to be a limit to what we allow as acceptable or else anything is acceptable.”
Says the gay porn actor.
@JaredNorthcutt30: Absolutely … Porn is legal, Child Porn, Bestiality, or Snuff porn is not. Your pathetic, ad hominem, attempt to degrade me as a porn actor (which I haven’t been for 6 years) is childish and does nothing to present an opposing, thought provoking viewpoint. If you can’t be intelligent in posting, I suggest you shut your mouth and let your intellectual betters speak.
And wearing what he/she/xe/zhe wants to wear isn’t legal?
@JaredNorthcutt30: Apparently it violates the school’s Prom dress code. It isn’t even a question of legality it is a question of acceptability. It is legal for a student to tell a teacher to f@#K off, but it is an unacceptable situation and has consequences.
@JaredNorthcutt30: I’ll even dumb down the argument. It is legal for the boys to show up in Nazi Regalia or Klu Klux Klan attire but would/should it be acceptable?
You’re seriously comparing a dress to Klu Klux Klan and Nazi regalia?
So assuming the teenager is straight, if he said, “I’m transgendered,” everything would be okay with you?
What is legality if not a question of acceptability?
@JaredNorthcutt30: #18 No, I compared, legal to acceptable. Big difference.
@JaredNorthcutt30: # 19 … Absolutely, if he is a straight, transgendered male to female he absolutely should be allowed to wear the dress.
@JaredNorthcutt30: #20 … There is a huge difference in what is legal and what is acceptable. I have already given several examples that speaks to the point of this matter.
I just don’t understand why you’re arguing the issue. You circled back and negated your previous points.
legal ?[lee-guhl] Show IPA
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: acceptable, allowable, permissible
@JaredNorthcutt30: #24 … exactly where have I negated anything I said. I stated in comment#1 if he was transgendered or transexual he should be allowed to wear the dress.
#25 … apparently u have a different version of dictionary.com then me because mine says this:
permitted by law; lawful: Such acts are not legal.
of or pertaining to law; connected with the law or its administration: the legal profession.
appointed, established, or authorized by law; deriving authority from law.
recognized by law rather than by equity.
of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the profession of law or of lawyers: a legal mind.
I have stated from comment #1 my only problem with him wearing the dress is if her were a transvestite (str8 male who wears female clothes for sexual gratification), or if he just was a straight man who identifies as a straight man and wanted to wear the dress for no other reason then because he felt like it.
ac·cept·a·ble [ak-sep-tuh-buhl] Show IPA
capable or worthy of being accepted.
pleasing to the receiver; satisfactory; agreeable; welcome.
meeting only minimum requirements; barely adequate: an acceptable performance.
capable of being endured; tolerable; bearable: acceptable levels of radiation.
“I have stated from comment #1 my only problem with him wearing the dress is if her were a transvestite (str8 male who wears female clothes for sexual gratification), or if he just was a straight man who identifies as a straight man and wanted to wear the dress for no other reason then because he felt like it.”
So what’s the problem? Gender is a fluid and evolving construct. Under your perspective, the teenager could effectively lie and say “I’m transgender.” And then you mention sexual gratification. The whole objective of prom is sexual gratification.
So your litmus test would involve ejaculaton essentially? Does the dress-wearing ejaculate after prom?
I hate having to argue the same points over and over and some people just not be able to see the obvious distinctions.
Essentially, the only scenario I have said would be an unacceptable situation to allow this boy to wear the clothing & characteristic traits of a woman is if he is a boy who self-identifies as a boy. In this scenario, tradition, and the schools dress code is what is an acceptable bar from allowing him into doing so.
The scenarios in which it would be acceptable for him to wear the dress are if he is hetero/homo transexual or a hetero/homo transgender in these cases the dress code and traditional rules should be suspended so he could be accommodated equal intrinsic civil rights by becoming his self identified gender as a female.
@JaredNorthcutt30: #28 & #29 … It was becoming more and more obvious that you are just internet trolling and your absurd responses in #28 & #29 speak volumes.
I’m just trying to understand your perspective. It’s not simple. Gender is very complex. I think the problem we run into is this Westernized attempt at pigeonholing individuals into certain constructs. There’s a slippery slope argument to made of your slippery slope argument. It seems that your interpretation is bounded to the white masculine assimilationist ideal. Historically, queer persons deconstructed these notions.
@JaredNorthcutt30: You have made an assumption without obviously understanding my statements. There are traditions, school rules, & civil rights at play in this situation. There are rules, laws, and traditions that we all must abide by to have an effective civilized society. Let’s not also forget the absolute first objective of schools is to provide the next generation of citizens and workers. Throughout their adulthood individuals have to work within the rules set forth in an employers code of dress as well.
If individuals identify themselves as male gendered then the traditions and rules of the school is they dress in accordance with their self identified genders tradition and rules of dress for the particular gender in question.
If individuals identify themselves as female then the traditions and rules of the school is they dress in accordance with their self identified genders tradition and rules of dress for the particular gender in question.
The boy has the right to not attend prom if he does not agree with these rules just as an adult has the right to not work for an employer who has a dress code.
This is not, MY, white, masculine, assimilationist, ideal. It is the rule of dress and tradition associated with this particular schools prom.
If we forgo all of societies or schools rules and traditions then we simply have anarchy.
I certainly could not expect to attend an event or even enter into certain establishments were I not to follow the dress code. My choice is to either follow the rules or not attend. My civil rights have not been violated because they are not saying I can not attend they are simply saying in order to attend I must comply with certain standards.
This is like talking to a wall. The teenager said ‘it’s an issue’ of comfort. Clearly, this person doesn’t identify with a prescribed gender. You were gangbanged on film. You haven’t subscribed to society’s rules and traditions either. Suddenly, a dress is the end of civilization as we know it. Point A is not aligning with point B here. Teenagers circumvent dress codes at prom all the time by wearing colorful balloon hats and other attire. The standards you speak of are based in heterosexist ideals.
@JaredNorthcutt30: … and now we are back to the ad hominem pointless dribble of an internet troll. I gave you the benefit of the doubt to enter into an intellectual debate and you have realized you don’t have a leg to stand on so result to immaturity. “Comfort” does not equate to gender because you want it to. Personally I’m comfortable in a pair of underwear or less. The boy has not made any type of gender claims to the school as has yet been identified. My gang bang as you put it, I’d hardly call a 4-way a gang bang, but whatever, fit within the rules governing pornography and the norm within that particular industry. I broke no rule of acceptability, nor legality, nor societal norm for my industry, nor even the dress code for my particular line of work. Your childish remark of a dress not being the end of civilization is invalid. No one person breaking any one rule would ever put an end to society. However, if we allow rules to be broken without discretionary references then what is to stop making exceptions for every rule with every person, then from here, why cant every person make an exception to every other set of rules, then why even bother having any rules.
There are rules and regulations that will always govern this boys life. No civil liberty or civil right is being broken by asking him to adhere to certain rules or regulations regarding this schools prom traditions. He is not being told he can not attend because he is gay, transgendered, transexual, intersexual, etc., he is being told he must comply with rules and traditions the same as everyone else.
Chad… looks like you lost the battle… your reasoning is flawed. Many teens are “Q”uestioning who they are… perhaps he sees himself as “Q”ueer… would you be ok with that? or perhaps he is “U”nsure… is that ok?
just as long as he is not “S”traight??
When the Principal was asked what the dress code was for the prom… he could not answer… seems that they do not have a dress code
would this be ok for him to wear… it has pants and a jacket
If this boy DOES NOT define his gender as either male nor female then why insist on wearing an outfit, wig, shoes, and make-up totally associated with one particular gender? Should he not maybe wear a skirt, with a suit jacket, make-up, and men’s dress shoes to accommodate his notion as having no gender?
Since he is insisting on wearing female gender specific attire it is safe to assume he does conform to either male or female gender. Then, therefore, he must comply with rules regarding the gender he identifies with. Why else would he care what the school is telling him to wear or not wear if he was gender neutral.
YOU CAN NOT SAY I AM NEUTRAL & AT THE SAME TIME INSIST ON A CERTAIN OUTCOME.
He either wants to wear total female attire because he gender identifies as a female or because he is just looking to create controversy and intrigue. Which brings us back to rules. The rule is a gender identified boy dresses as a boy and a gender identified girl dresses as a girl.
In order to participate in prom he must follow the same rules as every other student. He is not being excluded based on gender he would be excluded because he chose not to comply with the rules.
@JAW: Actually I obviously won.
@JAW: Again you make no valid point, If he was “unsure” or “questioning” his gender then why insist on wearing gender specific female attire.
You can not claim neutrality but insist on a specific outcome.
If he was neutral, then it wouldn’t matter what the school rule was, he could easily fit within either discourse.
Since he is insisting on being female gender specific in his attire he is doing it for one of two reasons, either he identifies as female gendered, in which case allow him to wear the dress and attire, or he is doing it out of controversy and therefore should not be allowed to wear the dress and attire.
sorry Chad… you have not won… what are the rules for the prom?
when asked, the school could not produce them.
For those guys that identify as 100% male, yet have long hair… do they need to buzz their heads to comply with YOUR rules (since the school could not produce any rules)
can a goth kid that wears makeup daily… wear makeup to the prom… or is that a no?
Please give us a copy of the schools rules… since You seem to know them, yet the school administration does not.
@JAW: Actually you are wrong. He was told it was not allowed per the school dress code.
Tony Zamazal, who says he’s been wearing women’s clothing as often as he can in recent months, had hoped to make a formal debut in a dress, heels and a wig at Spring High School’s end-of-year dance. After asking an assistant principal if he could attend the prom in that attire, he was immediately shot down, KHOU 11 News is reporting.
“He told me it just wasn’t in the dress code. [He said] women wore dresses, and men wore tuxedos,” Zamazal told the news station.
I love winning ….
@JAW: … #40 … what do you mean MY rules. All I have ever said is he is subject to the rules and traditions of the school as long as they do not infringe upon his civil rights.
So sorry you lost yet again. LOL
@Chad Hunt: I copied and pasted this from the above article…
“A spokeswoman for the Spring Independent School District couldn’t shine any light on the actual dress code, but said that Zamazal could take his request to the principal of Spring High.”
where is the dress code???
@Chad Hunt: Please note that while the term transvestite is open to individual interpretaton, most consider this term derogatory.
@JAW: The dress code was reported upon by the assistant principal of the school when the boy asked him. Did you not read my post #41. That was a direct quote the boy said the assistant principal told him. I’m sure the assistant principal is aware of what the dress code is.
@Raquel Santiago: I think it would only be considered derogatory within the context it was used.
I have never used it in a derogatory fashion.
Actually… Most Transvestites do Not find it degrading… They are more pissed at the fact that they were renamed “cross dressers” by others in the trans m2f community that did not want to associate with them. the term transvestite has been around for hundreds of years… transgendered and transsexual are both new terms from the last 50 years or so.
@Raquel Santiago: just do what i done and take half the football team in a limo…ahhh those were the fun days and i was such a slut.
@Raquel Santiago: … That a girl! You’re a girl after my own heart. LOL
@JAW: … if you follow this link you will see the news station video. The reporter clearly states that the assistant principal in charge of the schools dress code told him it was against the rules but did offer him the ability to appeal directly to the school principle.
No where in the video does Tony Zamazal declare himself gender neutral, gender male, or gender female. He simply states he is more comfortable dressed as a woman. What that means is anyone’s guess.
Therefore, again, as I have said from the beginning. If he identifies as a gender female the school should allow him to wear the dress. If he identifies as a gender male then he should NOT be allowed to wear the dress. If he is gender neutral then it wouldn’t matter to him either way so then the school rules and traditions should apply to him as well as to everyone else.
Simple and easy …. YEAH … I win again. LOL
I can’t believe I have been up this long on the internet arguing with people about something like this. Personally, I don’t care what the boy wears to his Prom. My interests, actually lay within wondering if he is doing this out of gender identity or for some other type of agenda. I also want to make sure the school is not violating any civil rights but simply just adhering to rules and traditions.
I’d be the first person in line were this a civil rights matter to cheer him on. I’m all for the cause of gender identity, however, I also am for the rights and traditions of society as long as they do not violate civil rights or liberties. So far there has not been enough information gathered for me to make a final judgement in this case. I chalk that up to inadequate journalism with little to no follow up.
To many times as members of the LGBT community we engage in rhetoric without even knowing the whole story. This is often damaging to our causes and why many people have labelled us as “bully’s” ourselves. We try to make arguments that map no sense or result to ad hominem retorts as was obviously exercised her tonight.
I’m glad I got the opportunity to debate this and show maybe how we ourselves need to educate ourselves more in regards to certain subject matters.
All that aside, I love my transgendered, transexual, transvestite, intersexual, quasi-sexual, homosexual, asexual, bisexual, and yes even my heterosexual brothers and sisters.
This is certainly an LGBT issue. The trans* umbrella includes anyone who is defying gender roles. I would think that a biological male who is more comfortable in female clothing would certainly fit that bill.
That being said, let him wear the damn dress. What the hell is the big deal? It’s formal wear, and should not be dictated by biological sex.
Make his “BIG DEBUT”..this is not a trans issue, this kid is just weird!
As many others have stated, it does not appear this individual identifies as Trans or is in the process of transitioning. Sounds like he just wants to dress up in women’s clothing. This does not appear to be an LGBT issue based on what this story relays.
That said, let him wear what he wants. The real question is will he be able to handle the reaction from his peers?? Unless he’s pretty thick skinned, I suspect he’ll be leaving the prom early with his mascara running….
@Chad Hunt: I’m with you on that !
@Chad Hunt: In case you forgot straight men can be transgendered as well not all transsexuals start off as gay identifying men. Just like you said no where it said he was gay, a drag queen, or transsexual/transgendered neither did it say he was a transvestite that got sexual gratification from wearing women’s clothing
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