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The Catholic Church Is Making a Pseudo-Reality Show About Demonic Possession

With so much material ripe for television — child molestation! financial scandals! international travel intrigue! — I’m surprised the Vatican hasn’t bitten into the reality genre already. But they’re about to with The Exorcist Files, a series the Catholic Church is working on with the Discovery Channel. The show “will recreate stories of real-life hauntings and demonic possession, based on cases investigated by the Catholic Church. The project includes access into the Vatican’s case files, as well as interviews with the organization’s top exorcists — religious experts who are rarely seen on television.” Now clearly producers and the church are intent on debunking the many myths of exorcisms and demons, and righting public perception on what goes in to ridding the human body of satanic possession. For the public good! And oh boy do I know just the viral strategy for Discovery’s marketing department.

By:           JD
On:           Jan 5, 2011
Tagged: , , , ,

  • 39 Comments
    • Andy
      Andy

      Has anyone told them this stuff is probably just a mental illness? Religion that is.

      Jan 5, 2011 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cassandra
      Cassandra

      @Andy: You should not mock the sincere beliefs of others!

      Jan 5, 2011 at 5:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      Did the catholick church “investigate” these demonic possessions with the same integrity as they “investigated” their pedophiliac priests?

      Jan 5, 2011 at 5:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ron
      ron

      Speaking of satanic possession, here comes Cassandra…..just mention religion and out it comes from the depths of hell.

      Jan 5, 2011 at 5:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • j
      j

      @ron: She’s being sarcastic. I just keep telling myself that. She’s being sarcastic…

      Jan 5, 2011 at 6:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff K.
      Jeff K.

      @Cassandra: What if those beliefs are false? You can’t tell me that simply because a lot of people believe in demonic possession it’s actually real, can you?

      (BTW, substitute Jesus/God with demonic possession if you want. It’s all the same hooplah anyway.)

      Jan 5, 2011 at 8:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joe
      Joe

      Where is it required that we have to respect beliefs that are a) clearly delusional? … b) harmful to those who believe such rubbish? … and/or c) both a & b? If I were to tell you there was a giant invisible pink bunny rabbit that whispers into my ear, most people would rightly consider me a fool. Same theory applies here. And if such a belief (with the assistance of the people who believed in my delusion with me) caused me to NOT seek out trained, expert medical help, then those individuals are guilty of causing more harm. This is the 21st century… have we not moved beyond magical entities that jump in and out of people as if we lived in some primitive jungle?

      Jan 5, 2011 at 8:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff K.
      Jeff K.

      @Joe: Obviously, because if you don’t respect everybody’s religious beliefs, no matter how wacky, it makes you a homophobe…. somehow…. *rolls eyes*

      Jan 5, 2011 at 8:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cassandra
      Cassandra [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Actually, Ron and J, that is someone else posting under my non-de-plume. I don’t rely on simplistic assertions.

      I would have said that dismissing reports about demon possession pretty much offends against all religions, not just Catholicism. One must be very frightened to summarily dismiss a phenomena that humans around the world have reported on.

      My spiritual experience to date gives me no insight into the phenomena, for which I am very grateful. But I have met people who claim to have experience relative to the subject, and I am not foolish enough, or cruel enough, to simply dismiss their accounts out of hand.

      Jeff K.

      You can’t tell me that simply because a lot of people believe that homosexuality is innate, it is not chosen, can you? You can’t tell me that simply because a lot of people believe in subatomic particles they are actually real, can you?

      And I do not appreciate your false characterization of my general argument that you presented in post 8. I am truly sorry that you find yourself unable to discuss this issue with honesty and integrity. Perhaps if you find a religion that speaks to your heart, you will develop the aforesaid qualities.

      Jan 5, 2011 at 9:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PatrickB
      PatrickB

      @Cassandra: You actually believe in possession?! Really?! Considering that there’s a well of natural explanations, do you really need to go all supernatural/sky pixie?

      People believe in subatomic particles because they trust experts who, presumably, have some rational basis for doing so. They experts could be lying, sure, but that seems unlikely since if they were and were caught they would lose their livelihood and be replaced by honest investigators. People believe homosexuality is innate b/c society has been trying to de-homosexualize people for a century or so. It hasn’t worked.

      Jan 5, 2011 at 10:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      No one other than a few catholick priests and Peter Blatty seem to believe in demonic possession. The reports of it are sporadic and insignificant in number. The non-believers therefore cannot be considered “frightened” – a judgment I’m not qualified to make in any event – they should be considered “normal.”

      Jan 5, 2011 at 10:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 2 · Cassandra wrote, “@Andy: You should not mock the sincere beliefs of others!”

      You mean like the “birthers”? Some people’s beliefs deserve to be mocked, no matter how sincere they are, because the beliefs are obviously ridiculous. The “mocking” is a mechanism for preventing this “disease” from spreading.

      Cassandra also wrote, “You can’t tell me that simply because a lot of people believe that homosexuality is innate, it is not chosen, can you? You can’t tell me that simply because a lot of people believe in subatomic particles they are actually real, can you?”

      See below for the subatomic particles. As to whether homosexuality is innate look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Twin_studies .

      No. 10 · PatrickB : “People believe in subatomic particles because they trust experts who, presumably, have some rational basis for doing so. They experts could be lying, sure, but that seems unlikely since if they were and were caught they would lose their livelihood and be replaced by honest investigators. ”

      Hey, while visiting a friend at a national laboratory, we walked over to one of the experiments going on in a particle accelerator, a K meson detector, and every time a particle went through it, the ionization trail would produce an electrical discharge, complete with a visible and audible “spark”.

      If you want to see some ionization trails with a device simple enough that you could make one at home, look at http://www.sciencephoto.com/images/download_lo_res.html?id=651320019 .

      No. 11 · justiceontherocks wrote, “No one other than a few catholick priests and Peter Blatty seem to believe in demonic possession.”

      Belief in it was far more prevalent 2000 years ago, before we could diagnose mental illnesses and even treat them to some extent.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 12:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • X29065
      X29065

      PatrickB

      “You actually believe in possession?! ”
      I think I just discovered the author of the fake posts attributed to me.

      Perhaps you should read a bit more carefully, or develop a conscience so you refrain from misrepresenting what other people say or write.

      I said “I am not foolish enough, or cruel enough, to simply dismiss their accounts out of hand.”

      If you are foolish enough, or cruel enough, to dismiss other people’s testimony out of hand, then you earn any scorn homophobes send your way.

      “Really?! Considering that there’s a well of natural explanations, do you really need to go all supernatural/sky pixie?”

      Some accounts of demon possession or interactions with demons can be explained, others cannot. I am no so arrogant as you to assume that I can account for the experiences of humans around the world, in every culture, for millenia.

      “People believe in subatomic particles because they trust experts who, presumably, have some rational basis for doing so.”

      In other words, they pick and chose based on what they want to believe. You want to believe that scientists are always right, even though science is constantly changing. Standard subatomic particle theory will be consigned to the dustbin as a false guess, if string theory is proven true.

      “They experts could be lying, sure, but that seems unlikely since if they were and were caught they would lose their livelihood and be replaced by honest investigators.”

      Sometimes, but not always. And lying is not the only way of being wrong, they could simply be making a mistake, drawing a conclusion from an incomplete data set. That happens in science, well, all through its history. Most people have no real idea how much science has changed over its history, or even in their own lifetimes. As I mentioned, string theory, if it is proven, basically disproves the foundational principles of subatomic theory by invalidating the notion of a particles.

      “People believe homosexuality is innate b/c society has been trying to de-homosexualize people for a century or so. It hasn’t worked.”

      No, for those people who do believe that homosexuality is innate, they believe it because GLBTQ people have testified about their experiences.

      B

      Since you didn’t catch on that post 2 was written by a poser, the rest of your post, as usual, is worthy of being mocked, but, I won’t tease you or make fun of you.

      Your explanation of witnessing an experiment ignores, perhaps from superficial thinking, the fact that what you allegedly witnessed, and the conclusions drawn from it as to what those ionization trails mean, is entirely dependent on the experiences and testimony of other people. Everything you think you know about anything you did not personally do or witness, is based on trust in someone else’s testimony.

      Atheists simply pick and chose according to their preconceived prejudices.

      The fundamental assumption of particle physics – the very concept of a particle, is challenged by string theory, which has its own challenges to overcome. People would be surprised by how many of the things that they were taught in high school science, are rough generalizations at best.

      By the way, thanks to the person who thought it would be amusing to impersonate me, I’ll be using random strings of numbers and letters, or randomly chosen names, from now on. Any confusion that causes in the fault of the immature here.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 12:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PatrickB
      PatrickB

      @X29065: I didn’t impersonate you. You can get an account if it really bothers you. It’s impossible to verify everything. General trust is how society works, but we don’t have to trust everybody. We can use our reason to decide who to trust, and judging from its past, I don’t trust the Vatican. And I don’t trust the stupids under its sway. Tears for my cruelty. Many.

      We can only judge the veracity of a claim by the claim itself and the author. How else would you have us interact with the world?

      Jan 6, 2011 at 12:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 13 · X29065 wrote, “B Since you didn’t catch on that post 2 was written by a poser ./..” LOL. It was a single sentence and completely consistent with what you post (assuming you are the real Cassandra), and I merely quoted the text (copying and pasting). Do you think I cared who wrote it.

      You got things wrong again, starting with your claim that “The fundamental assumption of particle physics – the very concept of a particle, is challenged by string theory, which has its own challenges to overcome.” Quite frankly, you do not have a clue.

      You can start by reading http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100901091938.htm (describing a possible test of string theory and pointing out that string theory was developed to describe particle physics, including gravity).

      It is interesting that you are now reduced to naming yourself by a randomly changing sequence of letters. Given a track record of getting everything wrong, I can see why.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Paul Clayton
      Paul Clayton

      This stuff is real. I’ve witnessed these things in my life.

      If you’re interested to lean more about evil and demonic possession, watch a real video on an exorcism http://bit.ly/cwG3fP . Listen also to prominent Catholic theologian and exorcist Fr. Malachi Martin on The Nature Of Evil, Exorcism & Possession http://bit.ly/bZqbrb .Additionally you can also watch this documentary http://alturl.com/dugru showing a real exorcism in the Philippines.

      Fr. Gabriele Amorth, Rome’s chief exorcist’s book is also worth a read. This milestone book is a great resource on demonology and diabolic possession. Read here http://alturl.com/hj58k about how one can get possessed and how to protect yourself and your family against witchcraft, spells, demonic influences etc.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff K.
      Jeff K.

      @Cassandra: I’m still trying to understand your point of view. Why are other skeptics and I considered bigots for dismissing people’s beliefs when the aren’t backed up with credible evidence? Take this example:

      http://www.examiner.com/deism-in-tampa-bay/end-of-the-world-set-for-may-21-2011-says-christian-leader

      Here’s someone who believes the world will end on 21 May of this year. Now, I think that’s bogus because there is no evidence to suggest this will happen. So am I a bigot for dismissing his beliefs right now? How about on 20 May? What about on 22 May after a whole lot of nothing happens?

      Do you see what I mean?

      Jan 6, 2011 at 8:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ogre Magi
      Ogre Magi

      @X29065: Do you believe in satyrs? The bible mentions them too!

      Jan 6, 2011 at 10:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @PatrickB: Actually, since science rests on the assertion that until something is proven wrong it is right it is more sound. Except when you take into account that many scientists often prove that traditional scientific teachings are bull shit time and time again.

      No one has actually managed to prove that religious teachings are bull shit at this point and time. No one ever will. Therefore, religion is more sound than science.

      Besides, no one here really has a problem with religion, they all have an issue with the harm religion does when it is used by people with agendas to control the masses.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 11:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • t9er50234kl
      t9er50234kl

      Ogre Magi

      Do you have a citation, or are you making things up again?

      B

      “It was a single sentence and completely consistent with what you post (assuming you are the real Cassandra),”

      No, it clearly was not, and you fell for it.

      “You got things wrong again, starting with your claim that “The fundamental assumption of particle physics – the very concept of a particle, is challenged by string theory, which has its own challenges to overcome.” Quite frankly, you do not have a clue.”

      No. Particle theory relies on the assumption that everything is comprised, at the fundamental level, of one-dimensional points. String theory posits that the phenomena that science currently perceives as points, is the expression of vibration is two or three dimensional strings. B, your citation does not disprove my point. You might start by reading “The Elegant Universe” by Brian Greene.

      “Given a track record of getting everything wrong, I can see why.”

      Yes, you have a track record of incredible errors, but please don’t use your failure to malign me. As I said, I’m dropping the nickname Cassandra because of the immaturity of some participants here.

      PatrickB
      “I didn’t impersonate you.”

      So you say, but, because you do not believe people of faith when they testify to their experiences, you cannot be believed about anything either.

      A while back, a poll reported that atheists were the least trusted demographic in the U.S. There is a reason – atheists do not trust people of faith, and that makes them untrustworthy in return.

      “We can only judge the veracity of a claim by the claim itself and the author. How else would you have us interact with the world?”

      Actually, it is more complicated than that, which is why people so often fall for junk science. But really, all you are doing is saying that you cannot be trusted.

      JeffK

      “Why are other skeptics and I considered bigots for dismissing people’s beliefs”

      As I have made very clear repeatedly, the issue is not dismissing other people’s beliefs, but dismissing other people. Homophobes and other bigots use the same tactic of employing a deception and dishonest characterization of the issue – asking ‘why are we bigots for criticizing behavior’ when they in fact denounce people.

      If you solely attacked specific components of religious theology, like anti-gay theology, there would be no bigotry on your part. And for anti-gay theology, you would have my full support.

      But atheism declares that the experiences of most of humanity are worthless, or fraudulent, or worse.

      “when the aren’t backed up with credible evidence?”

      Atheism is not backed up by credible evidence.

      And here is the problem. The claim ‘there is no God’ is not backed up by any evidence whatsoever, and the evidence to substantiate that claim beyond human ability. It would require knowledge of the entire universe, including those portions that are forever out of range, parts of the universe, perhaps the majority, that we will never receive light, and therefore data, from. And it requires data from outside or beyond the universe, outside of the laws of physics science it contingent upon. Atheism has no evidence for its own position, and cannot ever produce the necessary evidence.

      But religion is based on evidence – the experiences of most of humanity. Atheists simply decide that all of this evidence is not credible because of who is having the experiences, as well as the impact acknowledging the evidence would have on their lives.

      What really dishonest and immoral atheists do is dismiss all of the experiences and testimony of all people of faith, when they find some element, like “demons”, experienced by a minority, that can sometimes be explained away.

      The problem is that science, throughout its history, has found itself in comparable situations – accepting as established fact something that later proves to have a different explanation. If you and your peers here, arguing that the belief in demons disproves religion itself were honest, if you had integrity, then you would all have to also dismiss as lies and delusion science itself, which to this day continues to produce conclusions that are later found to have a different explanation.

      But you do not. You have one standard for what you want to be true, and another that you use to discard the experiences and testimony, to distrust and malign, most of humanity.

      “So am I a bigot for dismissing his beliefs right now?”

      You are a bigot if you dismiss him as a person, when you dismiss all people who share a common trait, like religion, with him. when you dismiss or devalue all people of any group because of a single trait, or error, you are a bigot.

      Atheism is only a prejudice, it only has one tenet or belief, and that tenet is not based on evidence, but on rejecting the experiences and testimony of most of humanity without reason or cause.

      If someone is an atheist, they are a bigot, just as if someone is a homophobe they are a bigot.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 12:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ogre Magi
      Ogre Magi

      @t9er50234kl:
      Ogre Magi

      Do you have a citation, or are you making things up again?

      When have I ever made things up?

      Isaiah 13:21 and 34:14

      Jan 6, 2011 at 1:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • atheism is prejudice
      atheism is prejudice

      Ogre Magi wrote:

      @X29065: Do you believe in satyrs? The bible mentions them too!

      When asked for a citation, Ogre Magi wrote:

      “When have I ever made things up?

      Isaiah 13:21 and 34:14″

      So, about those citations . . .

      Isaiah 13:21 (New International Version, ©2010)

      21 But desert creatures will lie there,
      jackals will fill her houses;
      there the owls will dwell,
      and there the wild goats will leap about.

      Isaiah 34:14 (New International Version, ©2010)

      14 Desert creatures will meet with hyenas,
      and wild goats will bleat to each other;
      there the night creatures will also lie down
      and find for themselves places of rest.

      That’s answers Ogre’s question pretty well.

      By the way, satyrs are from Greek mythology, so if anywhere, you would have found them in the portion of the Bible that was originally written in Greek.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 1:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      Atheism is the lack of belief in a God or deity. Its a completely acceptable view. However, its not one that anyone here actually practices. What people here actually practice on this site is called hatred.

      They hate the church (for good reason) so much that they feel that they must hate God as well. Just because something is done in God’s name does not mean God did it.

      The most ironic part of all of this is that this hatred comes from people that would support all freedoms that Americans believe in including the freedom of choice (which religion clearly is a choice). However, because of their hatred for the Vatican and the Mormons, they feel the need to go on the offensive towards every person that believes in God.

      I totally understand your hatred of the people that use religion to judge you, but I don’t understand your shortsightedness in believing that all religious people are judging you.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tallskin2
      tallskin2

      Daez. You’re a republican loon. And you’re talking out of your rather ample backside.

      It is not hatred to laugh at people who believe in a sky pixie.

      It’s rational.

      The mormons and katlick kiddie fiddlers are the icing on the cake, as are the crazy f*cking moozos who celebrate the murder of a reasonable govt minister in pakistan, or who think that shark attacks in Egypt are done by zionist sharks, or in saudi arabia a vulture is arrested for being an izraeli spy.

      Same shit, different smell.

      all total nonsense and to say so is not hatred.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @tallskin2: Talskin, you should rename yourself Talltale because once again you are making things up as you go, and I’m the lunatic who you think believes in sky pixies.

      Please prove where I have ever once voted for a Republican in my life. Ok, so I did once. It was in the case of a Democratic County Prosecutor that overstepped her bounds as Prosecutor in order to send an innocent black man to jail for a murder that he did not commit based on an illegally obtained confession. You better believe I booted her Democratic ass out of office.

      However, that is the only time in 13 years of voting that I ever voted for a Republican. Yet, I’m a Republican loon. Nice one Talltale.

      It is based on hatred. True atheist don’t feel this constant need to prove themselves by attacking anyone that doesn’t agree with them. They don’t feel the need to constantly put forth their views just for that purpose. I totally support your atheism; however, that isn’t what you are showing here. What you are showing here is an irrational hatred towards all things Christian. Which, I get it, you have every right to be pissed at the Christian church for the sins they have committed.

      Yes, to denounce all Christians or Muslims as being zealous assholes hell bent on your destruction is most definitely hating a stereotype. Sure, religion is a choice (I will never argue that it isn’t), but just because you disagree with my choice doesn’t mean you get to attack me for it. I don’t go around beating down people in gay bars that are over 45 just because they like to cruise for drunken 18 year old cock. That is a choice I disagree with, but I still respect it.

      I never asked you to agree with my choice. I never tried to force my choice upon you. I never judged your lifestyle because of my choice. Yet, you feel the need to do all of those things to me. Maybe you are right, maybe God doesn’t exist, but in my own personal life I have just seen way to many coincidences to not believe that something higher is pulling me through, and since, in my entire lifetime I have been treated 1000x better by church going Christians than I have by bar humping gays, I will continue to show up in church every Sunday while you sleep in because you are exhausted from your drunken orgy the night before.

      In the end, I get to live a longer happier more fulfilling life and you get to hope you don’t get shot when you leave the bar yet again drunk off your ass and then don’t get in an accident when you drive home yet again drunk off your ass. You enjoy your life and I’ll enjoy mine.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ogre Magi
      Ogre Magi

      @atheism is prejudice: the English word “satyr” is used to represent the Hebrew se’irim, “hairy ones.” In Hebrew folklore, se’irim are a type of demon or supernatural being which inhabits waste places

      se’irim are not wild goats that is a modern day clean up. You should be more honest!

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Ogre Magi: You should pick and chose your arguments more carefully.

      Here is the argument you really should have used. The Bible supports the theory of demon possession, and most people now realize that demon possession was surely a sign of mental illness.

      You should look up the versus that talk about where Jesus made the man’s “mental illness” leap into a herd of pigs that then ran off the cliff.

      The Bible isn’t perfect. It was inspired by God not written by God. It is a good guide to how life should be lived and contains some really good ideas, but in the end, it has a lot of shit in it as well. However, I don’t believe in the book, I believe in God, my faith has nothing to do with a 2000+ year old book.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ogre Magi
      Ogre Magi

      @Daez: I was talking about the se’irim not demonic possession

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Ogre Magi: I’m aware. I was just feeding you a better argument since this topic is about possession after all, and most people believe that the very concept is insane.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 20 · t9er50234kl wrote, “B “No, it clearly was not, and you fell for it.”

      Simply a lie on your part. The alleged forgery you are talking about said, “You should not mock the sincere beliefs of others!”,
      and I merely replied to that comment, not caring who posted it – referencing the Comment No. and user-name. A single 9 word sentence is not enough to disambiguate various people based on writing style.

      Then you try, “No. Particle theory relies on the assumption that everything is comprised, at the fundamental level, of one-dimensional points. String theory posits that the phenomena that science currently perceives as points, is the expression of vibration is two or three dimensional strings. B, your citation does not disprove my point. You might start by reading “‘The Elegant Universe’ by Brian Greene.”

      LOL. You should try taking a graduate-level course on the subject as I have. Particle physics most certainly does not make the assumption you claim (“one dimensional points”).
      The particles are viewed rather as excited states of quantum fields. The details are far too complex to go into in a QUEERTY post, unfortunately.

      For some reason, you combine condescension with total ignorance. No wonder you now have to make your name a random sequence of letters.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 2:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PatrickB
      PatrickB

      @Daez: Religion is completely made up, like Lord of the Rings or WoW. That’s why you need faith, as in faith in a god/heaven/whatever that you will never have evidence for. If people actually had evidence for a teapot orbiting the sun… i mean god… you wouldn’t need faith. God would just be a logical conclusion. Why is god, as an idea about the nature of the universe, exempt for being proven?

      Scientific views *DO* get overturned in the face of new evidence, but, more commonly, our understanding about how the world works is refined or made more complete. We try our best to interpret evidence to help other people make informed decisions, like how to make a bridge or treat a disease. Our understanding is certainly incomplete, but civilization itself, with its technology and massive populations, should convince you that science, i.e. our understanding of the physical world, is not bullshit.

      I do hate anything/anyone that encourages people to believe something ridiculous like god or fairies or demons. That’s not bigotry, that’s just hating something that causes problems. Am I also a bigot because I hate G W Bush because of his wars and incompetence?

      Jan 7, 2011 at 4:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • atheism is prejudice
      atheism is prejudice [Different person #1 using similar name]

      PatrickB

      “Religion is completely made up, like Lord of the Rings or WoW.”

      Homophobes claim that homosexuality is completely made up. Equally important, in the context of this forum, you, PatrickB, for all anyone here can tell, could be completely made up. You could be one of Maggie Gallagher’s foot soldiers, trying to create division between people of faith and GLBTQ people.

      Prove you are not. If you cannot . . .

      “That’s why you need faith, as in faith in a god/heaven/whatever that you will never have evidence for.”

      No. Faith is required of everyone for anything they have not tangibly experienced themselves. If you said you had fallen in love, it would require faith on everyone else’s part to believe you, faith that you are telling the truth. We all have faith, about and in all kinds of things. You and your peers simply chose not to believe most of humanity, while, of course, expecting to be believed.

      “If people actually had evidence for a teapot orbiting the sun… i mean god… you wouldn’t need faith.”

      And if you had a rational and sane argument, you wouldn’t have to be snarky. People have evidence, just not corporeal or physical evidence.

      “God would just be a logical conclusion.”
      Many people have written over the course of history carefully composed assertions that God is the logical conclusion.

      “Why is god, as an idea about the nature of the universe, exempt for being proven?”

      Actually, God is an idea about something that transcends the universe.

      But, since you raised the issue of being exempt from being proven,

      Prove that God does not exist, why should atheism be exempt.

      You won’t be able to. It is not possible.

      “I do hate anything/anyone that encourages people to believe something ridiculous like god or fairies or demons. That’s not bigotry, that’s just hating something that causes problems.”

      No, it is bigotry. You hate most of humanity over a shared trait, one you dishonestly and abusively, maliciously, misrepresent. Homophobes use the same basic excuse – they just hate something they perceive as causing problems.

      Ogre Magi

      “the English word “satyr” is used to represent the Hebrew se’irim, “hairy ones.” In Hebrew folklore, se’irim are a type of demon or supernatural being which inhabits waste places”

      Substantiate your claim, for you are pretending to know better than multiple translators. Strong’s renders it as “sa`iyr ”
      and first meaning is hairy, the second is he-goat.

      Your argument is the equivalent of translating any use of the French word chèvre as satyr, or the german word Ziege, or the greek word ???????, or italian word capra, etc.

      Basically, you are relying on a false translation, because while satyr’s in mythology have goat like qualities, to assume that any reference to goats means satyrs is fraud. Homophobes rely on false translations as well. Lies and errors are some of the best friends any prejudice, including atheism, has.

      “se’irim are not wild goats that is a modern day clean up.”

      Oh, are you pretending to be as old as the Old Testament now, and wiser than the translators of not one, but at least seven modern English translations?

      “You should be more honest!”
      Everyone can be more honest than they currently are, for none of us are perfect.

      But, I’m already orders of magnitude more honest that you are. Why don’t you catch up with me before you cast any more aspersions on my character.

      By the way, since the silly premise in this article and most of the noise from atheists is that the ideas about demons mean that all religion is false –

      it turns out that the whole “vaccinations cause autism” was a case of fraud, not mistakes, but deliberate false claims.

      http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/01/05/journal-study-linking-vaccine-autism-fraud/

      “The first study to link a childhood vaccine
      to autism was based on doctored information about the children involved, according to a new report on the widely discredited research.”

      Not the first time either. Science has frequently fallen into fraud. By the poor thinking that atheists here have used, this would mean that science is all imaginary, made-up, nonsense, etc.

      B

      “Simply a lie on your part.”

      No. Your false accusation indicates embarrassment on your part.

      “The alleged forgery”

      Alleged nothing, I know my own posts. And, B, since you have been spoofed in the same way in the past, or, at least claimed that particular irrational and abusive posts attributed to you were forgeries, you ought to be a bit more careful.

      “you are talking about said, “You should not mock the sincere beliefs of others!”,
      and I merely replied to that comment, not caring who posted it – referencing the Comment No. and user-name. A single 9 word sentence is not enough to disambiguate various people based on writing style.”

      Certainly it is, considering that I do not rely on simplistic and unsupported assertions. You screwed up, B. Not for the first time.

      I personally do not believe that you have even finished middle school yet, much less attended college. I believe you run to google to find something you don’t understand to bluff people with, personally, which is why when you get called on it, you fall back on:

      “The details are far too complex to go into in a QUEERTY post, unfortunately.”

      Whenever someone says “my argument is too complex to post”, I know they are bs’ing everyone.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 5:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PatrickB
      PatrickB

      @atheism is prejudice: There exist things that are so ridiculous that they can be pointed out only with ridicule. Like a magical spirit who can read your thoughts and preserve you after death and allow you to experience virgins/paradise/nirvana.

      Also, I’m not a footsoldier of Maggie. I *am* Maggie.
      Oink Oink!

      Jan 7, 2011 at 7:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 32 · atheism is prejudice (aka Cassandra, aka ….) wrote,

      “No. Your false accusation indicates embarrassment on your part.”, which of course is a lie – there was nothing to be embarrassed about. You are claiming that the statement, “You should not mock the sincere beliefs of others!” would clearly not have been written by someone who posts religious babble under the name “Casandra”. Then you try to cover up the fact that you made a fool of yourself by claiming it was not something you could conceivably post by saying, “Certainly it is, considering that I do not rely on simplistic and unsupported assertions.” But there was no assertion whatsoever in that first post under one of your many names, just a comment about manners.

      Then you revert to your normal infantile behavior by saying, “personally do not believe that you have even finished middle school” to cover up the fact that you got so much wrong, and then whine about the full details being too far over your head by saying, “Whenever someone says “my argument is too complex to post”, I know they are bs’ing everyone.” LOL … do you really expect a detailed description of a graduate level course on QUEERTY? Some topics can’t be discussed in 50 words or less, particularly given what you have to know to get started.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 5:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AndrewW
      AndrewW

      Atheism is not “prejudice,” it is presumption, just like any religious belief. Nobody can prove either the existence or non-existence of a supreme being or god. Both require a leap in faith.

      I think many people practice Apatheism.

      Apatheism is an attitude, not a belief. An Apatheist is a person who regards the question of the existence or non-existence of a God or Gods to be essentially meaningless and irrelevant. However, some define the term more broadly to refer to apathy towards all religions or belief systems, not just toward a belief in God.

      Unlike Theists, Agnostics, Atheists, etc, the unique feature of an Apatheist is that if it were possible to prove that God exists, their beliefs and behavior would not change. Similarly, there would be no change if someone proved that God does not exist.

      I think the only thing we know for sure is that NOBODY KNOWS. 30,000 different stories (religions), but nobody knows. When we recognize that reality we also recognize how important it is to just live in the “present” and enjoy life, instead of being a slave to a story.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 7:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • atheism is prejudice
      atheism is prejudice [Different person #2 using similar name]

      “Apatheism is an attitude, not a belief.”

      “apatheism
      – no dictionary results ”

      “Atheism is not “prejudice,” it is presumption,”

      Since both a prejudice and a presumption are pre-conclusions, that is, conclusions made before evidence, the point is really pointless. Prejudices are usually based on presumptions and assumptions, and presumptions tend to reflect prejudices.

      “just like any religious belief.”
      No doubt, some religious beliefs are based on presumption, while many are based on experience. To claim that any, and therefore all, religious beliefs are based on presumption is not only degrading, it is itself presumptuous.

      “Nobody can prove either the existence or non-existence of a supreme being or god. Both require a leap in faith.”

      Not exactly, by a few light years. Nobody may be able to prove either the existence, or non-existence of a Supreme being or God to you, but, 99% of humanity has been convinced of the existence of God in some way, and 1% of humanity has been convinced of the nonexistence of God in any way. Your declaration is not only inaccurate, it is presumptuous.

      “I think the only thing we know for sure is that NOBODY KNOWS.”
      Ah yes, no one but AndrewW can know what their own experiences are or mean. That’s just a bit presumptuous.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 10:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • atheism is prejudice
      atheism is prejudice [Different person #2 using similar name]

      PatrickB

      “There exist things that are so ridiculous that they can be pointed out only with ridicule. Like a magical spirit who can read your thoughts and preserve you after death and allow you to experience virgins/paradise/nirvana.”

      Of course, homophobes take the same position regarding homosexuality – the idea that two people of the same gender genuinely are emotionally and sexually attracted to each is ridiculous, homophobes say.

      It is sad that the only way you can respond to something in other people’s lives that you do not experience, and do not understand, is with ridicule. Other people have learned to respond to such circumstances, whether it is a sexuality other than their own, or religion, or quantum mechanics, or the cultural mores of other people, with more civil, empathy and maturity.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 10:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 35 · AndrewW wrote, ‘Atheism is not “prejudice,” it is presumption, just like any religious belief. Nobody can prove either the existence or non-existence of a supreme being or god. Both require a leap in faith.’

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2660736/ and
      http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/11/creating_god_in_ones_own_image.php for starters.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 1:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      Why is this so important to so many? Is it rooted in fear? Hope? It’s ok to say no one knows. People may feel they know one way or another but it’s not really true. That is what faith or the lack of faith is. I am sticking with “i don’t know.”

      Jan 10, 2011 at 1:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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