Queerty is better as a member
The only way I see disarmament working is if EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE got rid of their guns; police, military, government agents, law abiding citizens, and criminals. Since the possibility of that happening is zero, in a disarmament situation, the only group disarmed are the law abiding citizens stupid enough to relinquish their arms. If any group is allowed arms, those arms WILL get into the wrong hands (criminals). The only group disarmed would be the group with the least to fear from, which doesn’t solve the problem and there is the dilemma.
Laws just doesn’t work on those by their nature (those who intend to harm) do not care for laws or their consequences which is made apparent yesterday with the shooting in a GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONE. I was 8 when that law was passed and my 8 year old self could probably tell you it was a stupid idea. You’re basically advertising to the world “hey, no one here has a gun, come right in and have at it.”
Queerty said: “I sat in front of the computer all day, trying to figure out a uniquely gay angle to the tragedy in Newton, CT.”
I bet Old 700 Club Pat Robertson will. And I bet .001 cents he will try to blame us for it.
Oh what nonsense. What drives me nuts about gay liberals is that they want to turn every issue into a gay issue and of course the liberal side of that issue is the side gays should take. That is why Barney Frank hates log cabin type gays. So according to liberals i should not have guns for self-defense, i should depend on straight america for my defense.
Guns do kill people, and the mentalists who think carrying them for safety is sane. You have all played a part in these massacres, all of you. You should be ashamed, instead of driveling on about an amendment, take some time to get your priorities right and look at the simple fact hundreds of children are being murdered each year because of guns and the laws around them.
I consider myself sane and I don’t carry a gun around for safety. Maybe you meant to say insane?
More accurately people kill people with guns. People have been killing people long before guns came around. Do you think this will change if magically all guns and related knowledge were to vanish tomorrow? We’re resourceful creatures and killing is in our nature, some of us suppress it a lot better than others. For the initiated who is intent on killing/harm, remove an option and their brains will think up another. Removing guns doesn’t magically eliminate homicides. On the contrary, the instrument of use get’s shifted to something else and often times balances out when you consider the deaths that could have been theoretical prevented in the presence of guns.
Millions of children die every year but you don’t hear people get all bent out of shape over it. Only when it happens close to home do people start to take issue.
This bares repeating but gun control/elimination is futile until we have a culture and species advanced enough to handle such eventuality. I’m just not convince we’ll arrive there before destroying ourselves.
“Removing guns doesn’t magically eliminate homicides.”
What is it with Americans and this ridiculous rhetoric. Sad really how people who claim they aren’t part of that machine are spewing the same tired, irrelevant lines, they’ve done a masterful job getting these quotes into the public conscience.
People honestly and literally think this is a liberal and freedom issue. It’s sad, it’s 2012, the king isn’t even a king anymore. It isn’t going to happen, let it go and grow up as a nation. The world needs America and the American people to stop throwing duck fits over very simple issues.
Gun control is not the answer. We already have places with very strict gun control laws (like Chicago and DC) and those areas have the highest violent crime rates (with guns) that anywhere else. Connecticut itself has very strict gun laws that require registration, classes, etc. The killer’s mom had all of the permits and everything she needed. Everything was legal EVEN WITH strict gun laws in CT. But, she didn’t have gun locks on her guns. She didn’t have them stored in a safe place. So, what good did these strict gun laws have? And, if you’re going to require people to have locks on all guns…. it won’t work. People won’t do it because people want a loaded gun by their bed at night and you’re not going to stop that.
I certainly don’t think doing nothing is the right thing. I do think that closing the gun show loophole is a quick fix. BUT, it isn’t a fix. There are already over a hundred million guns in the USA…. pistols, shotguns, rifles, etc. They can be privately sold or stolen anytime. And, do we think that thieves and criminals are going to register their guns?
Simple as this, our CULTURE has changed. Our society has gone down hill. We’ve had guns for decades (centuries) and we’re only recently experiencing these major catastrophes. So, it isn’t about guns that have always been around…. it is our culture.
I think this might be a regional issue for Gays. I live on the outskirts of a wonderful liberal city but just a few miles the other way of me are enclaves of evangelical rednecks loaded down with weapons. I do not live to far away from where the murder of James Byrd happened. I personally hate guns but keep arms to protect my family from people that would love to see Gay people harmed, all the Gays I know around here have guns but only for self defense.
While it is true that the gun control people can study our tactics and strategies, I dont think that we should now focus on it and abandon marriage equality… we have not won marriage equality yet.
It’s too late. Guns are everywhere. The violence can and will continue. It’s become American culture. Just learn to duck when the firing begins.
How about directing any angst to something constructive – you can help save an American child right now. Donate to an organization that helps homeless youth, drop off some food at a local foodbank to help feed the millions of American kids who are malnurished and hungry in the USA, give some money to the Trevor Project or your local LGBT youth group, donate to an LGBT-friendly youth program like Boys & Girls Clubs, 4-H, Girl Scouts, or Campfire Boys & Girls, do some outreach to churches to get them involved in their social justice organization to make them more LGBT friendly so kids don’t sit in the pews suffering, etc. There is a lot that can be done to help save kids and make the world a better place right now.
Now let’s wait and see which puffy, white, middle-aged, snake-eyed, someone with the word “Family” in the name of their organization, mealy-mouthed, hateful bigot will somehow blame gays for this.
as politically slanted, biased, and one sided as this article was… it was very good.
and I completely agree.
thank you for this, Dan. as much as we are all separated into little groups of subcultural motives, the fact is we are all human. it wasn’t so much what you wrote, but how you wrote it that was most effective and impactful.
thank you again.
Every time a tragedy happens people want to figure out why, how it could be avoided in the future. People want to feel involved, like they are taking an active role in solving the problem. The fact is though that there just no problem to be solved. If it wasn’t guns it would be home made bombs, or a crossbow or something else. The fact is that some people are just insane and the only thing we can do is to try and live our live as best we can and maintain a healthy level of caution.
Why not regulate guns as they do cars? Credit to the Volokh Conspiracy:
1. No federal licensing or registration for guns (aside from already-required serial numbers).
2. Any person may use one with or without a license if and only if he is on his own property.
3. Any adult may obtain this license by taking a simple test that virtually everyone can pass.
Not a total solution, but certainly a start I think.
You guys who think you can prevent insanity are giving yourselves waaaaay too much credit. Bottom line: No amount of legislation or laws or protests or regulations are going to stop crazy people from doing crazy shit.
Nothing will happen. The republicans control the House and are in the pay of the NRA. The GOP says the laws already in place are enough but need to be enforced. They’ve been saying it since the law was amended, yet 40% of all gun businesses operate illegaly, no back ground checks that have not been enforced.
The argument against home owners having guns is a good one, second amendment aside. If you look at western societies, the rate of gun-related crime is far lower than the U.S. almost non-existent in some cases because of far stricter laws either banning them or banning them entirely.
I don’t feel any need to have a gun in my home, absolutely none. Why do we have an armed police force if gun owners can take the law into their own hands just because they’re defending their home? I don’t buy into the argument that most gun owners are in good standing or that it should be used to justify owning them. It doesn’t and shouldn’t mean that none of them are capable of flipping out and going on a shooting spree. The thought of people going out in the street with a concealed gun and going into a bar or any public place (legal in some states) is appalling. Imagine a scenario where someone is hitting on a boyfriend, girlfriend, wife or husband, and a shot is fired. It’s insane.
@TxHeat: I don’t believe I’ve ever read a more hypocritical statement. Anywhere, ever.
@2eo: chill out dude and get a life. Reading your shrill comments to everything even American domestic policy is getting tiring.
The world is BIIIG place and you cannot know everything (though you obviously think you do), so be a little humble and stop trying everyones life – try concentrating on your own. Turning your level of aggression could give at least a couple of years extra…
I agree. An excellent example can be found in England. Comprehensive gun control has not removed the gum from the common criminal nor from the street thug.
I’m just as tired of hearing the same mindless drumming of “more gun control” from cowards who think we should all live in a police state.
1. schools are gun free zones (no guns allowed).
2. the shooter stole the gun from his mother.
3. the school messed up and LET him into the secured building (which is locked during the day).
So you have a failure of security protocol that allows a nut with a stolen gun onto a supposedly locked premises containing helpless children and adults. He goes on a shooting spree and all I hear out of the zombie Americans and foreigners is “more gun control” and “blame the gun.”
Tell me again how gun control could have prevented this? Metal detector and armed staff wouldn’t have prevented it either BUT it would have done a lot more than those stupid gun control schemes that were already in place and probably minimized the deaths. People who commit these crimes are usually cowards, they find easy targets (like gun free zones) and end up kill themselves or give up without a fight when they’re challenged. It’s the same M.O. that occurs over and over again and people like you are just too stupid to realize it. People were killing people well before the invention of the gun and people will kill people well into the future.
There’s actually no gun show loop hole, that lie is always perpetuated by the anti-gun crowd. If you buy a gun from a dealer at a gun show, you still have to go through the standard forms and background check you have to go through with a gun store. It is private party to private party gun sales that do not require the check and forms. That’s probably what you meant.
If you’ve ever been in a room full of armed people, they’re pretty nice to one another. It’s the room with only 1 armed person that you need to worry about. The room full of people shooting at each other is Hollywood fantasy.
@MartinDK: I do like how someone with 90 individual posts on a topical gay site on the internet finds time in his no doubt choc-a-block schedule to address my life priorities.
I assure you Mr.DK, the feeling you have for me is not remotely reciprocated. I appreciate the thought though. May it spur you.
@MacTX: Aww bless, you know replying 3 times in a row doesn’t make you anything less than a psychopath don’t you. BUT WHAT IF ALL KIDS HAD GUNS AND THEN WE COULD USE MISSILE COATED IN URANIUM BECAUSE HUNDREDS OF MURDERED CHILDREN IS NOTHING COMPARED TO MY SELF RIGHTEOUS CRETINOUS ARROGANCE THAT I DESERVE TO BE ARMED.
No, it just means I’m not always at my computer and there were 3 people I want to respond to and no one else made a post during those 3 responses.
Now you’re just being silly.
Why not ban all guns? That’s the only way to stop the madness. Connecticut where this took place actually has quite strict laws and what you would call “sane” gun control. The guns were registered to the killer’s mother who didn’t have any kind of criminal record or mental issues. I think CT also has requirements where you have to take courses in how to use guns. CT also has an assault weapon ban but apparently she had the weapon before the law was enacted and people who had guns before the law was enacted were allowed to keep them. The problem with guns is just them being in a house. Often the person who uses them to kill is not the person who owns them but some other intruder or crazy person is able to steal the gun from the owner and use it to kill them. Ban all guns like in European countries. It’s really the only way.
The biggest problem is our culture. We’ve gone from Leave it to Beaver to trash TV.
Guns have always been there… but we have a growing population around the world that is changing.
Sane people don’t kill 5 to 10 year old children, shoot people in shopping centers, open fire in theaters, etc. We have more gun control laws today than 50 years ago. But, we never had mass gun killings 50 years ago… like we see today.
Address the cultural problems and maybe we’ll get somewhere. But, these cultural problems have been slowly growing and perpetuating themselves over the past 10, 20, 30, 40 years. Kids may have not been perfect back then…. but parenting back then was sure a lot better than what I see today when I walk into Walmart. It is more like non-parenting today. This problem only perpetuates itself as these kids grow up and become adults (physically).
when people defend themselves with guns where are the commentaries calling for gun self defense classes? How many gay bashing could have been diverted with gun self defense?
there are plenty of causes to care about. what about drone attack victims what about marijuana users being persecuted what about LGBT people in poverty not being helped?
there’s no shortage of issues to worry about. Pick something that you can most directly impact in volunteer donate are become an advocate.
If you want the LGBT community to help end systemic violence in this nation, then they need only to continue what they are doing. Fighting to end bullying and violence in schools, fighting hate and discrimination and trying to decrease political polarization.
We can eliminate the mechanisms used to achieve violence all we want, but we will never achieve that goal until we solve the underlying cultural issues. We live in a time were our leaders and politicians hate and bicker daily, where people are so diametrically and ideologically opposed to certain set of beliefs that we feel we must hate those with other view points. While our opposition is certainly more guilty of this than us, every person in this world seems to have become a little more cynical.
Until our society understands the key message that LGBT people have always fought for, that love is the most important thing, then we’ll never get fixed.
…umm how about we talk about the civil rights of children for a change? How many of these massacres involve kids that are on some kind of psychiatric meds? And isn’t true that our children are taking my psychiatric pills than any other country in the world? Can we not see a direct link between these two things? If you think that gun control will fix this problem, your terribly mistaken. We’re a country that has followed the misguided wisdom of our doctors and allowed to drug our children without their consent. Yet, we don’t care because they’re not 18 yet and can’t make decisions for themselves. We’re brooding this behavior. Switzerland hasn’t abolished their guns yet, but they don’t see this extreme type of violence for a reason.
I meant to say *taking more psychiatric pills*.
@john32: If you want to stop bullying, then you should favor school choice. Only when we give kids a choice of schools will they reform.
@2eo: You said, “driveling on about an amendment”. Do you understand ANY of the history surrounding how and why the US Constitution was created? Do you understand that at this time it is the only thing standing between what’s left of this somewhat free country and a tyrannical state? Being rendered impotent through the ultimate power called fear? Do you understand that it is this same US Constitution that is to be used to determine if DOMA and Prop 8 are legal? Do you understand these things? I think not. On the other hand, this issue of Constitutionality does not diminish the horror of this act of blood-bath violence.
@2eo: If you want to see violence erupt in this country to an incredible level, announce a ban on and government confiscation of guns. Like it or not many in this country cherish all of their civil rights, which includes the right to bear arms. We can discuss reasonable restrictions but an outright ban? No. That’s a non-starter.
@Tommy25: In a perfect world that would work, but this world isn’t perfect. Look at the history of banned items to see what I mean. I know this is a dead horse that’s being beaten but when you make laws or restrictions on something, the majority of the effect of such laws and restrictions falls squarely on the shoulders on those who follows laws.
John, you nailed it right in the head. That’s something certain individuals will never consider. They’re too blinded by their biased because they grew up in a different country/region and lifestyle.
Shootings like this will increase and get more severe as more laws and restrictions get added to the books. Such things don’t solve the problem and their backers are too stupid to admit its failure and consider something else. To quote Princess Leia, “The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”
But drugs are good, our doctor only has our best interest at heart. (sarcasm)
no one will touch the medical issue. it is curious that the medical industry make substantially more money from treating than curing; which is why you’ll never see a cure for the common cold, flu, various cancers, and treatment illnesses out there. not that we can’t solve those problems but that there’s no profit/money in solving it.
from what I can tell, I don’t think he/she is an american, the US Constitution probably means as much to him as to our past 2 presidents, absolutely nothing.
Gun control laws work so well because as we know criminals always obey the law. Cities with very strict gun laws have such low murderer rates. I mean, you never hear about gun murders in Chicago or D.C. Bull. Instead of taking guns out of the hands of people who should be allowed to have them, how about stepping up the laws we do have? How about draconian penalties for those who shouldn’t have them (felons, mentally ill, illegal aliens)? Life with no parole seems about right. Those of us who obey the law and are responsible gun owners aren’t the problem.
I just want to point out the Huckabee thinks teaching the Bible will stop School shootings over on MSN web page.
Yeah Right! Like that would ever work!
@D9W: It’s always worked well in the past, I mean the crusades and WWII weren’t started by christians, only catholics who aren’t even chri…. ah.
Give this a read. Makes me so glad to be British where we don’t have a powerful gun lobby. Funnily enough we have far, far less gun crime than the right thinks in America when they’re comparing statistics [for those not quite clever enough, that means when demographics and population are accounted for] shows this absolutely.
The fact such an atrocious group of people can wield so much influence is frightening and absolutely against democracy.
I found the article nauseating to read. He attacks law abiding licensed concealed carry owners in that first paragraph. Last time I checked, those aren’t the people massacring people at schools (or any other place).
As for statistics, no one yet has provided me with anything conclusive on the subject (either pro or against). All I get or run into is snippets of data that is too easily slanted towards one side or the other. It’s like going on holiday to Rome for the first time and that one week you’re there, it’s pouring rain, miserable, and ruins your holiday. That’s what you’ll remember and what you’ll think of Rome. You see one week out of an entire year.
The following is an excerpt of a response I made to another person elsewhere that also could apply to you as well:
Every gun control law passed to prevent this type of massacre failed. It’s asinine to think that passing a law will prevent someone from harming someone else. The federal no guns on school premises law really worked here, right? We should be asking ourselves why school zones are STILL gun free zones today. That law is a failed experiment from over 20 yrs ago by the anti-gun group, yet they won’t admit it. What makes me angry is that ONE gun could have ended it before it got to the kids. You blame the gun; I blame the person who pulled that trigger and the law makers and anti-gun crowd that prevented the staff and teachers from having guns on premises. Unstable individuals will harm others no matter what laws you pass. They were doing it long before the invention of the gun and they’ll do it far into the future. Force is the only response they know and fear. Otherwise, you just give them a building full of helpless adults and children and wonder how a massacre could happen. That is what the anti-gun stance has created here. You make it so easy for the nuts out there to do what they do best, harm others.
Anybody besides me hear about the incident in China where a guy stabbed and slashed more than 20 people outside a school? Yeah, that’s right, with a KNIFE. Do you also want knives made illegal across the globe? I understand the outrage regarding senseless death, especially when it comes to kids, but pinning the blame on the weapon and not the individual reeks of manufactured outrage.
Perfect example that it’s not the weapon that kills, it’s the individual.
Yeah, I heard about it. But of course that incident got overshadowed. Knife crime isn’t as polarizing as gun crime, nor would bring in the ratings and viewership for the media, so guess which they’ll cover ad nauseam?
I was wondering about this “concealed carry” stuff. The vast majority of these guys live in the Sunbelt states where it’s hot all the time. What kind of bulky clothing do they wear to conceal the gun? Isn’t the bulky clothing kind of a giveaway?
More likely, they never leave home. I realize that one cool thing about hard-core libertarians is, they STAY HOME 24/7 with the A/C and never leave the house. (This is because they all have those mysterious “consulting” jobs where they work at home.) Therefore they can never be burglarized and their guns can never be stolen.
Although most of them live near a beach, unfortunately they can never go there – where would they put the gun, hide it a shoe? That’s the first place any beach gun thief would look!
Also since they’re all bitterly divorced, their kids live elsewhere (“we’ll have a good time then, son, you know we’ll have a good time then”) so they don’t have to worry about the kids finding the guns and playing with them. (Libertarians are all in favor of legalized prostitution, after that bitter divorce anyway.)
Also, libertarians all seem to live in semi-rural areas where they need automatic weapons for the herds of deer that conveniently parade past their homes, enabling the libertarians to shoot 20 deer at a time within a few seconds! A rifle just won’t do – the Founding Fathers intended for us all (except those annoying black people) to have automatic weapons. And what if you have 5 or 6 black bears attacking your house at the same time?
@MacTX: Amen to that, brother.
Here’s an opinion:
Reports are coming out that Nancy, the murdered mother, taught her son the murderer how to shoot.
If that is the case, I have zero sympathy for her. In fact, she is complicit to the murder of 20 children. What kind of a monster would teach, what everyone has said so far was, a mentally unstable child how to shoot? Add to that, she did not keep her guns secure, even knowing that she has a mentally unstable child.
@the other Greg:
No idea. I didn’t see a need to get the license and like you brought up, it would be very difficult for me to conceal on my lean frame. If I didn’t feel safe, I wouldn’t live where I do. My arms are my security blanks when all other options and reasoning are exhausted.
What I’m wondering is if he was on any medication. Too many medications are out there that induce suicidal thoughts and behaviors. Teaching someone to shoot well takes time. It sounds like he just snapped one day and decided to go out in a blaze of glory. Our media is certainly making his wish a reality.
except the kids didn’t die in the knife attack.
i understand why the cowardly closeted gay republicans on here are defending the “gun rights” – they’re still living in fear of defending themselves against attacks from their own fellow republicans.
oh well. :D
This is fucking ridiculous.
@Little-Kiwi: It’s a pretty hardcore connected and tight knit group, we haven’t had a proper insider on the fundie posters for over a year now, Stormfront got a hold of one of them and he’s now in protective custody. It used to be considerably easier to get rid of them, a few phone calls and a little info posted here and there and they’d leave without a fuss.
Seems they’ve finally caught up, somewhat with simple things like proxies and some are even using TOR now [welcome to 2007 folks]. They’re still dim mind, you need only read the pro-gun posts here, and everywhere else. It’s like the lives don’t matter, only the weapons. Pretty much sums them and their human worth up to be quite honest.
You should have a read of this, it includes completely verifiable, Americas own sourced statistics and is completely airtight. Although I know Martin won’t understand the big words, there are some nice graphs, don’t shoot them though.
1.) States with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence.
2.) Shooting sprees are not rare in the United States.
3.) 15 of the 25 worst mass shootings in the last 50 years took place in the United States.
4.) The South is the most violent region in the United States
5.) Gun ownership in the United States is declining overall.
Irrespective of the trend for the right to condone more guns and more citizen deaths the actual trends are wonderful to see, gun ownership decreasing over decades corresponding funnily enough to the lowering of violent crime over the same period.
Also, if you read the article note the apology and correction posted under point 3 in the article, follow the link for newer and actual information about other countries laws.
@Little-Kiwi: Not all gay republicans are in the closet and not all gay democrats are out of the closet.
Yet, another slanted article. Do you have something that’s NOT mainstream media? Their anti-gun stance is well known here in the state and so are the anti-gun positions of the few billionaires who own those media networks.
This is why I reject narrow focused statistics, you leave out everything else to make your point. At which point, your case becomes meaningless. This is why I try not put statistics up. BTW, Connecticut has very strict gun control laws by US standards.
“The killers: Half of the cases involved school or workplace shootings (12 and 19, respectively); the other 31 cases took place in locations including shopping malls, restaurants, government buildings, and military bases.”
Shopping malls and restaurants are the only two that don’t exclusively prohibit weapons on premises, a lot of them do prohibit them but the individual places have their own choice in the matter. So what Mother Jones is telling me is that most (if not all) of the incidents happen where there’s a nice, inviting sign up front that says “Gun Not Allowed” or something to that effect. Why am I not surprised that’s not mention there or at the Washington Post article?
If gun ownership is declining overall, I guess all those recent gun sale surges recently are just imaginary?
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