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The Entire Bi-Sexual History of Real World: D.C.‘s Mike Manning

So everyone watched last night’s premiere of The Real World: D.C., riiight? Where we got to see the introduction of not one, but two members of the LGBT club? (Okay, just the B club.) In there is Colorado’s good Christian boy Mike Manning, who didn’t let the first night go by without revealing his big not-so-secret: He’s bi. Hot. And also, we must immediately know: How many lasses and lads has he hit it up with?

mikerwdc

Girls: 15. Guys: 5. But: “Not sex, we’re talking everything, right?” (Scroll to 25:35 for the relevant dinner scene.) So we still don’t know whether Mike has had The Sex with The Mens.

But that was actually the least interesting part of the whole show. While Mike’s fellow bi castmate Emily sounds like she’s new to the less-than-straight scene, Mike isn’t exactly on foreign territory, and he speaks quite eloquently about his situation — and how he struggles with (read: doesn’t want to) being lumped into the stereotype of fey guys who sleep with other guys. Of course, he’s already getting shit on the blogs (including this one) from viewers who think he’s “bi now, gay later,” and so self-hating about his identity. This could. get. INTERESTING!

And if you watch the rest of the episode, you can tell sexuality won’t be the big controversial trait here. Political leanings and religious beliefs appear to be the bigger catalysts for seven eight strangers to stop being nice and start getting real.

(Scroll to 35:12 to see Mike and Ty resolve their differences.)

By:           editor editor
On:           Dec 31, 2009
Tagged: , , , , , ,

  • 197 Comments
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      bi now, gay later?

      i like that!

      Dec 31, 2009 at 12:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      As in previous thread, he is so damm religious and has most
      likely had drilled into his mind the word “Gay” equals
      fire and brimstone that he can’t actually call himself
      Gay yet. He still lives in his bumfuck of a town, lives
      with his family, and associates with the jocks he has
      grown up with. The fact that “Bi the way” he mentioned
      it at first dinner shows that he really does want to
      acknowledge being Gay, this is his first step. In cummin
      attractions he jumps right into working with Gay orgs.
      Give him props for having the balls to get it out on day
      one……………….

      >>> And again also: Andrew is going to be the one of the bestest
      most memorable RW’ers in all 20 seasons. He is bat shit
      crazy and nuttier than all the fruitcakes sitting under
      all those Christmas trees. Andrew told the gullible roomies
      he was a master in about twenty different genres. Mike’s question “Oh, so you’re not a cage fighting champion, professional photographer,lead singer of a band after all? To which someone else replied “guess he isn’t a sky diving instructor either”

      Classic!

      Dec 31, 2009 at 12:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AlwaysGay
      AlwaysGay

      I don’t watch the Real World or the RW/RR Challenges because they are always the same for the gay people and because it’s heterosexual propoganda. Let’s see if the haterosexual male castmates hang out together while excluding Mike in turn forcing him to do his own thing. Remember Real World Philadelphia where Karamo was friends with haterosexuals Landon and MJ because they thought he was haterosexual until he told them he was gay then they no longer hung out together? Has anyone else noticed how all the gay castmates except Davis from RW Denver have been average build but most of the haterosexual male castmates have been the size of linebackers or muscular?

      Dec 31, 2009 at 12:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DCer
      DCer

      He may say he is Bi but according to several sources all he was doing in DC was guys… Including the opening night party at a gay bar.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 12:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 4 · DCer: Exactaly my point in #2, he never had the
      outlets to explore his Gayness, all of his hookups were
      most likely guys so far in the closet that they were
      behind the clogs……..Once he was surrounded by Gay
      lifestyles, and actual Gays he could come out. He is
      a hottie and was probably like a kid in a candy store
      with his choice of hooks every nite. People need to
      stop doggin this guy for the by the way,
      I am Bi statement………………

      Dec 31, 2009 at 12:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • What?
      What?

      He’s only “bisexual” for their little obvious storyline. Anyone who couldn’t tell he was gay just by their first look at him needs to retire their gaydar.

      They also let slip he’s gay and just gay on both the promos and the after show, not that it needed to be given away.

      I don’t even know why I still watch this show. It’s not the same show it used to be. Now it’s just a bunch of drunk kids who only go to a club night after night.

      Remember when the castmates under 25 were in the minority? No? Kids just aren’t that interesting. Luckily for MTV absolutely nothing else is on when this show is.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 2:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      I remember when they had a freakin’ Yale-educated doctor on that show. Those days are looong gone.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 3:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • FakeName
      FakeName

      Pam Ling (from the best season of RW ever, the San Francisco season) went to Harvard, not Yale.

      I doubt that many of the castmates that followed her can even spell “Harvard”, much less hope to attend it. I bailed on RW about four episodes into the Las Vegas season, when I realized that I would rather be doing just about anything other than watching seven whores for an hour a week.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 3:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary
      Gary

      There is nothing interesting about self-loathing closet cases, especially “Christian” hypocrite cowards like this one – next!

      Dec 31, 2009 at 3:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dasher
      Dasher

      “Andrew is going to be the one of the bestest
      most memorable RW’ers in all 20 seasons. He is bat shit
      crazy and nuttier than all the fruitcakes sitting under
      all those Christmas trees.”

      Undeniably true. But, Andrew is kind of hot in a WASPy kind of way…he’s tall and he’s pretty. What they say isn’t as important as what they do, and if he keeps striking out with chicks, who knows?

      Except for the girl who was taken in by his BS in the first scene, the girls won’t give Andrew a second look after that, and prefer the dudes who look and act like they belong in maximum security institutions. Which just proves girls go for the bad boys. Not exactly a new concept

      Dec 31, 2009 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      I think it’s important that the bisexual orientation in men be depicted. For too long, it’s been ignored by gay men – and by the mainstream – as a marginal thing. However, my view is that most self-described straight guys are bisexual in their orientation.

      One reason why a depiction of male bisexuality is important is because it helps to de-stigmatize male-male sexuality within the greater mainstream. Gay men are too self-marginalizing and too self-segregating to be considered serious proponents of de-stigmatization in this regard.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 3:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      “However, my view is that most self-described straight guys are bisexual in their orientation.”

      And does this bisexuality theory apply to self-described gay guys, too?

      Dec 31, 2009 at 3:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • What?
      What?

      @Jason

      You missed the part about this kid realizing that he’s not actually bisexual in the first place.

      He’s gay.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 10 · Dasher: I 100% agree, I guess our minds are not wired same as the hetro vagina toting types. I think he is waaaay nerd hot………..he has a nice tight bod and probably swings a baseball bat down below………that being said thay kid couldn’t get laid in a ‘ho house with a fist full ‘ Benjamin Franklins……..Did you catch the after show? Host asked the audience if ladies would sleep sleep with Andrew………Crickets!…..Not even a few mercy claps!! :(
      Maybe he needs to take a pee pee out for a test ride…..

      No. 9 · Gary: read #s 2 & 5……. Save your ammo for those deserving of homo hits! :~P

      Dec 31, 2009 at 4:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kevin
      Kevin

      On Mike’s self made facebook page…

      “That being said, no I won’t be offended if you refer to me as gay or bi. Yes I am attracted (physically and emotionally) to men. Big deal. I was born that way. Moving on…

      If the right girl comes along in the future (and I’ve been with some amazing ladies in the past), I’m not going to say “I’m sorry, I can’t love you because I’m in the wrong category.” That’s it..”

      Basically he’s gay. And if a woman comes along eventually that he’s attracted to. so be it. haha.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 4:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Same Crap
      Same Crap

      I don’t know what woman would think she has a chance at a lasting, committed relationship with a “bi” man.

      Men, whether gay, straight or bi, always look around and cheat. His eyes are going to wander to both men and women. Double the chance and opportunity.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 4:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Gay men can be extremely negative towards male bisexuality. Part of the reason is that gay men, like most men, are territorial, possessive and demanding when it comes to sex. They want things to be simple as in “that hot guy must surely like me and me alone”. There’s a pettiness aspect to it.

      Gay men, therefore, are very much like straight men.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 4:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Why wouldn’t a woman want to have a relationship with a bi man? If the bi man is faithful, he’ll be good for her. It’s all about morals. If you apply moral standards to yourself when in a relationship, you shouldn’t worry about your partner straying.

      Of course, the word “morals” is a bit old-fashioned, isn’t it. However, it’s my view that morals are fundamental to how we conduct ourselves as human beings. When you cross the road, you’re making a moral judgement.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • adam
      adam

      At least this show has equal opportunity bisexuality. In the past, it’s been bisexual females and gay males whenever a show wanted to show how “open-minded” it was. However, the bi chick thing was just a ploy to prop up male heterosexual fantasy for girl-girl action. It was an exploitative bisexuality.

      At least with male bisexuality you know that the guy is being honest. With female bisexuality, the woman is usually dishonest. She’s using her sexuality as a marketing ploy, which is what women in general tend to do with their sexuality.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 5:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steph
      Steph

      It just seems so weak and transparent when “traditional” gays attack nontraditional, nonconforming nonheterosexuals. Don’t you recognise the fallacy when your complaint is about men like Mike flaunting their “inappropriate” version of sexuality …in public? What happened to celebrating diversity?

      What are you afraid of? That Mike sleeps with the enemy? That he’s won more acceptance in days than marching, prancing queens won in decades? The implicit suggestion that Mike identifies with bisexuality just to manipulate straight people, is right up there with the stereotype that gays recruit innocent straight kids.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 5:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      I stand by my previous posts. “Bi-sexual” is really the stepping stone to those who have not yet fully accepted their Gay identity………..

      >> I again gotta steal my friends retort to those who claim to be Bi-sexual. His reply: I am bi-sexual also!! I sleep with men and boys…….. :~P

      Dec 31, 2009 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steph
      Steph

      I’ll see your “knowing that bisexuals have just not accepted their homosexuality yet” and raise you a “heterosexuals just know that homosexuals have been warped by molestation and can be cured”. Believe what you want, and wish as hard as you want, but it doesn’t change reality.

      Seriously, what is so hard to believe? Cock is good, vag is good, and there’s no natural law that prevents someone from liking both. Most men relate to other men better than women, yet it doesn’t make most men homosexual (unfortunately). Future generations will look back on this era with amusement at our futile struggle to pigeonhole everyone.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 5:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • merkin
      merkin

      i think there are probably true bisexual men, but the majority are just “making a pit stop on the way to Gayville.” Im a 36-year-old gay man living in New York and have yet to meet a bi guy over the age of 26.

      That said, there are actually quite a number of bi guys who are actually straight. We reached the point where young guys (especially in college) want to seem with it, perhaps to impress women, and either just call themselves bi or act upon it. Others are just curious or horny. I “dated” two guys like that in college.

      As for why a woman wouldnt want to be with a bi guy, most wouldn’t because theyd be afraid the guy would make that eventual trip to gay town. Im not saying its the truth, but its what they’d be concerned about.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 6:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steph
      Steph

      Merkin: adult book stores, truck stops and rest stop bathrooms are full of older married (with children!) bisexuals. They just don’t call themselves something that makes it easy for folks like you to go browsing for them. =P

      Let’s all be honest here. It’s all about insecurity. Those of you who want people to fit into certain pigeonholes are simply insecure. The problem is, some of you are fighting to maintain cultural *restrictions* that make your world more comfortable and predictable. How different are you from conservative “traditional” heterosexuals who want the homosexual “meanace” corrected?

      Dec 31, 2009 at 6:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • What?
      What?

      I went through the whole ‘bi’ phase for a good 4 or 5 years while coming out.

      I’m not at all saying bisexuals don’t exist, I’m just saying this kid isn’t one of them.

      Every word he has to say about the subject is everything I said to myself and others from around 17 to 21.

      I’ve known a few bisexuals(very few, but enough) and they’re far less interested in coming up with long-winded covers for why they’re bisexual. They just are and they don’t need to give any explanation.

      It’s mostly gay men and some gay women who muddy the water for bisexuals by claiming to be bisexual when they’re not.

      Bisexuals are essentially a sexual unicorn so I’ve never really understood why the conversation is so controversial to some. They come up more in passing conversation than they do in reality.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 7:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hephaestion
      hephaestion

      Three good reasons to watch “Real World DC”:
      1. For once, the gay guy is one of the most muscular guys in the house. And he gets along with everyone well.
      2. For once, the black guy is not religious or homophobic.
      3. It’s filmed in beautiful Dupont Circle with a smarter-than-usual cast.

      Dec 31, 2009 at 9:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Remember Sexuality 101, the Kinsey scale, Bisexuality, crushes? Here’ s the scoop on the bi’s:

      “Once men go ‘mo, then no more women for them. Women age and grow, they may sway to and fro”

      Sciency stuff: Newer peer- reviewed research seems to show that bisexuality may be less common in adult men than previously thought and more common in women {especially women ~>40} than we’d realized.
      Bottom line: men tend to gravitate toward the 0 or 6 ends of Kinsey’s scale– being “totally heterosexual” or “totally homosexual.” Once a man who has had sex with 1 or more women begins having sex with men, it is rare for him to have sex with women again. The % of male bisexuals seems to decline wth age. [We seem to agree that we see that out there but now there are studies!]

      I know very few men I would term bisexual–men who would consider either an opposite sex or a same- sex partner, even if they prefer men or women.

      Some decent studies show that women age ~40 plus do sometimes turn to same-sex relations even without prior experience or self-reported attraction. I don’t see a lot of this with men in a clinical setting–the office–I have to say–once they’re “out” they don’t go back.
      Women’s sexuality appears to be more flexible. Note, I didn’t mention fluid!

      Jan 1, 2010 at 1:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • What?
      What?

      I always get a laugh out of people using the Kinsey Scale as literal fact anyway. It’s a study by one person. Can we get an update from multiple sources?

      Do we still solely rely on information about the solar system from the 40s? No, we don’t.

      Much like using leeches as a cure all the Kinsey Scale is pretty damned outdated when it comes to present information.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 2:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      The Kinsey scale isn’t like a GED exam, an SAT or an IQ test, WHAT (#28). You knew that, right??

      It’s just a model and broke hallowed ground at the time when it was developed. That was the binary world of “you are X or you are Y.” No middle ground.

      Today everyone doing psych/counseling/social work or research– except the rabid fundies — accepts the continuum model as a given. The religious bigots have the bible, so they don’t need or trust studies done by us heathens

      Jan 1, 2010 at 3:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Greeley_Co
      Greeley_Co

      I enjoy the expert opinions about bisexuality; regardless of what sexuality he declares or who he decides to screw, he was forward and confused or not, an open book. As far as saying all Christians are bad or confused (or bisexuals), you can say the same about any random group you bunch up, including “gays” and you’d be unfair and wrong.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 5:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Lukas P,

      Much of the current sex research is flawed in that it is heavily influenced by the bisexual double standard that has persisted in media depictions of human sexuality. This double standard is especially prominent in porn movies, the only form of media which depicts explicitly the erotic interaction between human beings.

      The bisexual double standard, which has persisted since adult porn began being produced, says that female bisexuality is acceptable in the mainstream but male bisexuality isn’t. From this derives the notion that the female-female interaction is socially acceptable but the male-male one isn’t.

      This notion has heavily influenced current sex research. In fact, some of the studies you mentioned used porn movies to determine bisexual tendencies, a flawed paradigm if ever there was one. It is simply flawed methodology to use porn movies to determine sexual orientation.

      Kinsey’s research pre-dated much of the commercial porn industry, and is therefore less influenced by the bisexual double standard, and hence much more reliable than the research that’s out there now.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 6:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      There is no such thing as male bisexuality being a pit stop to “gayville”. This incorrect assertion is usually made by petty gay men who want to polarize male sexuality.

      The only reason this pit stop notion may appear to be the case is due to the fact that men are more prone to partaking in sexual activity than women. Put bluntly, men are hornier than women. A bisexually oriented man thus finds it easier to partake in sexual activity with men than with women.

      This fact gives the appearance that bisexually oriented men are gay. The truth is, however, that these men are still bisexually oriented men who are having sex with men because men put out more. It’s the gender, stupid.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 6:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      A bisexually oriented man who is 50:50 in terms of his feelings for men and women may appear to be gay if he is having sex with men 99% of the time. The reason he is having sex with men 99% of the time is because men put out more. Men are easier pick-ups than women.

      He may appear gay by his behavior but his orientation is still bisexual.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 6:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MackMichael
      MackMichael

      @ Same Crap, Just thought I’d introduce myself to you. I’m a man who isn’t “always looking around” to cheat. In fact, I actually never look around to cheat, which does not suggest that I don’t see someone attractive and appreciate their appeal, but I never do so with the notion that my appreciation will lead to infidelity. I am not suggesting that I, in any way, judge those who cheat or conduct open relationships, because I most certainly do not. I am just stating that not every man–gay, straight or bi–looks around and cheats. And, I am not the only one out here. For some of us it is a religious thing, for others it is just a matter of different (not better) values, and still others just aren’t into it.

      I understand that this profession may be incomprehensible to some, but try not to attack me, as I’m already up to my neck fighting the social conservatives who condemn me, and I really am not up for an attack coming from by own brothers and sisters in the community. By the way, my partner/husband of 11 years also does not cheat (at least to the absolute best of my knowledge, and I confess that I trust him).

      Jan 1, 2010 at 2:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Jason (no. 32): Yes, I know all about the porn studies! Nope, I wasn’t referring to those studies on sexual attraction/identity you mentioned, although I’m very familiar with them. And with actual porn, sort of, too.

      I agree that the U.S. sex studies from ’80s -90s had biases but the bias toward just a binary gay/ straight attraction/identifcation wasn’t and still is as prevelant in Europe–partic. northern Europe. Not all have been published yet, here or there. USA research has gotten less normative–I see this is a sore point for you; you’re not alone on this issue.

      Research I’m referring to is based on interviews re: sexual history and attraction. Some of those studies may have a semi-familiar name on thema–familiar to my parents that is!

      Jan 1, 2010 at 3:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Lukas P,

      The polarization of male sexuality is partly due to the fact that the male-male erotic interaction is stigmatized heavily by lots of factors: peers, porn, parents. It is promoted as being “non masculine”.

      Polarization is designed to minimize the male-male erotic interaction, to reduce it to a flank, thus keeping it out of the mainstream.

      Female sexuality is less polarized. The female-female erotic interaction isn’t stigmatized as heavily as male-male, and is, in fact, heavily promoted and glamorized by mainstream porn in particular. It is promoted as being “feminine”.

      Note the difference: male-male “non masculine”, female-female “feminine”.

      Also, women tend to use their sexuality as a marketing ploy, and will declare and advertise their so-called bisexuality in order to obtain the approval of a third party, usually a man who will provide for them. In this sense, female bisexuality is a form of advertised prostitution.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 6:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mangmang
      Mangmang

      Jason #36, that was a very solid post until I hit your last paragraph. Considered and thougtful to misogynist stereotypes? Like woah.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 6:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P
      Lukas P

      Jason (#36), yep, I mostly agree re: polarization but not with analysis of why. Your last paragraph lost me though. That came out of a whole other mindset.

      Enough said by me–I hate talking shop when am not on the clock!

      Jan 1, 2010 at 7:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Manghang and Lukas P,

      The last paragraph of my previous post was simply a statement of fact. It is well known that women use their sexuality as a marketing ploy. Just look at the different levels of modesty in women’s clothing versus male clothing. If you go to a mainstream nightclub, the women wear revealing clothing, the men dress conservatively. Same with cocktail functions, for instance.

      This clothing double standard is eerily similar to the bisexual double standard. Both reflect on the marketing ploy notion.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 8:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob Moore
      Rob Moore

      In my 30 years as an out gay man, I have never met a verifiable bisexual man. I know men who claim to be bisexual, but if they are, the evidence of attraction to women is rather lacking. I have met many married men claiming to be bisexual, but the only adultery they committed was with men. Some have claimed that hooking up with a guy is not cheating on their wives, but I would be willing to bet she wouldn’t share that view.

      I am married to a straight woman, but when she found out about my infidelities with men, I did not insult her intelligence by trying to claim it wasn’t cheating if I was with men. My apparent lack of interest in sex was at least defined as something that had nothing to do with some flaw she might have. I hope she was relieved a little when I finally told her, I’m gay. To this day, I have not figured out how we did not split up. Especially after our children left for college. My therapist and I recently began digging into it, but I have had no new revelations.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 11:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Jason: double standards apply for men and women all OVER the board, not just in terms of clothing and views of bisexuality. Obviously, some nerve has been hit here for you about the public’s views of bisexual women versus men, so nothing I or anyone else can say seems likely get you to think about other related copies. I did try.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 11:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Jason: double standards apply for men and women all OVER the board, not just in terms of clothing and views of bisexuality. Obviously, some nerve has been hit here for you about the public’s views of bisexual women versus men, so nothing I or anyone else can say seems likely get you to think about other related topics. I did try.

      Jan 1, 2010 at 11:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dasher
      Dasher

      Terrwill, I think you’re really onto something: the real plot could be what Andrew ends up doing with his pee pee. My money would go on him rubbing off on Mike, who would probably enjoy it (so would I for that matter). Then for pillow talk afterwards, Andrew can confess that he’s watched boys-kissing-boys vids on YouTube, as part of his long-overdue coming-out process. Then one of the girls interrupts, and tells Mike not to believe a word Andrew says, and Mike looks puzzled and slowly says, “But he did have a big cock.”

      Jan 2, 2010 at 2:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Blake B.
      Blake B.

      Oh how I used to love this show, and I will absolutely be giving the D.C series a chance, but they don’t make em’ like they use to back when Real World had some of the brightest most fascinating kids in the country tackling some HEAVY topics. This show is also responsible for showing a gay relationship in a very positive light (of an HIV positive man, at that) in a time when you couldn’t even say the word gay on network television.

      The episode from the Boston season when Genisis was working in the school center and during lunch one of the kids said “Michael Jackson is gay, my mom said so, and we hate gay people” and Genisis broke down crying and said “I don’t want to be gay anymore” and Kamila walked over and said “I don’t want to be black anymore. You can’t ever stop being gay, it’s who you are, so learn to accept and love yourself more when you hear things like that”…and I cried myself to bed that night as a little boy.

      This show had a profound effect on me as a child growing up in the South where my only exposure to anything gay in the 90s was The Real World. I know many gay youth who also were raised by this show.

      Since then, the show turned in to Mega Douche Fraternity and Whore sorority reuniting in one fame whore house with no substance, but giving credit where all credit is due, the recent Brooklyn season felt like something from years past where most of the houseguests were college graduates, none of them drank, smoked, partied and you had a gay guy, mormon, transexual, marine, beauty queen, and bisexual female living together in one house and it made for a VERY inspiring season that many of my friends and I greatly enjoyed watching.

      Here’s to hoping they go back to that and the old formula that worked best.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 5:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 43 · Dasher: I like the setup, however I would like to see the action go a bit further, ya know like Mike fucking the straightness right out of Andrew. And Andrew fucking the Bi-sexuality right out of Mike…….. :-O

      Jan 2, 2010 at 11:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JoshH
      JoshH

      Goddammit, you guys need to recognize that bisexuals can have sex solely with men or solely with women for their entire lives and still be bisexual.

      It’s just so damn irritating to see the gays acting exactly like the straights when it comes to an utter misunderstanding of bisexuality.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 11:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 45 · JoshH: Simmer down, no one on this thread has actually slammed the Bi’s. And you are correct there may be some
      Bi-sexuals who spend their entire lives as such. I think the vast majority simply use the term “bi” as a baby step towards the big step of declaring one Gay. For a lot of people that is huge step which goes against everything that has been drilled into their heads since they were toddlers. Mike from RW is a perfect example of such. One never hears the fightwing lunatics threatning fire and brimstone as a result of being bi-sexual, therefore is is much easier for those just peeking out of the closet door to declare “I’m Bi” as opposed to “I’m Gay”. And the vast majority once comfortable in their Gay skin will in fact declare they are Gay…………

      Just look at Elton John!! : P

      Jan 2, 2010 at 12:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      @Terrwill & Josh: Why don’t we adopt the legal standard here vis a vis bisexuality? Under American law, much of which is adopted from English law, “mental states” are of no concern. One is judged only by one’s actions. What one actually does. Therefore, under the law, you can be gay as hell, but if you don’t actually have gay sex, then you are not gay under the law. Likewise, you may be actually bisexual, but if you only have sex with your same gender, then you’re a homosexual under the law. Consequently, if you want to be considered a “bisexual”, under the law anyway, you have to get out there and occasionally fuck someone of the opposite sex. LOL

      Jan 2, 2010 at 1:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      First, Queerty, the word is “bisexual”– no hyphen. Last I checked, “bicycle” doesn’t have one either.

      More importantly, though, (and Jason, I swear we’ve exchanged before on this topic) there is an assumption of power that is happening on this board that is mirrored both in politics and the real world (both the show and the popular term.) Basically, as noted above, there seems to be a notion that an identity should or could be fostered on a person, hence “I know what you/he/she really are[there are two bisexuals on this show, btw, but oddly little seems to be noted about Emily on this board and her having a "fake" identity]“; “I haven’t met a bisexual and me, being the center of Queerdom, must be correct,” or “X person identified as bi and then gay so, all people must follow the same pattern.”

      The notion of a self-identification being held up to scrutiny is as irritating as being told that one can just pray out the gay. Seriously, all you gay men, get down on your knees for Jesus and not in the way that you are probably used to. Yea, that’s pretty irritating and outright unjustified. So is claiming that Mike is cowardly, seeking an “easy way out” or doesn’t have the right to identify however he wishes.

      This situation is even worse in that this particular bisexual is trying to create viable change for the entire GLBT community. His upcoming meeting with Jared Polis, his work with the “No on H8″ campaign (surely you’ve seen the Facebook photo), his work with GLBT groups on campuses, his mentorship positions, his trying to reconcile religion and sexual identity– that’s nice kid, but why not just come out as Gay? You owe it to us.

      Oddly, perhaps, I associate with him identifying as bi but having heard the same claims for decades. Yes, I’m married to someone of the opposite sex, enjoy sex (thanks for asking), have never had sex or anything with someone of same sex since engagement to being married, did cheat on a former partner– with someone of the opposite sex (that was painful, never to be repeated) and have a family with children that I adore beyond understanding. No, I don’t have to deal with the religious factor; I’m an atheist. And oh, I’m also bi.

      I’ve also worked with four national GLBT youth boards and associations, more campus awareness and inclusion groups that I can count, and *still* am amazed at how I have to explain my entire sex life and ratios just to explain “you know, we’re not all on the road to Gaydom”–

      but honestly, do I or any other bisexual really have to justify that?

      And, btw, while we’re on the same topic of identity, shouldn’t we decide if Ty is black enough? I mean, when will he get to that final destination of his real identity? And Josh– well, that Hispanic, South Philly thing, sort of, is that really, you know, legit or is he just faking it? And what is up with Ms. Texas’ hair? When will it realize its true identity? Give a chick a chance!

      Jan 2, 2010 at 1:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 48 · glasshouses: If you read my previous posts on this thread you will see that I am 100% certain that Mike will, if not already identify as Gay. His upbringing, family, religon, friends et all have forced him to not identify as Gay. Once in DC where he is exposed to tons of Gays and Gay outlets he will be less hesitant to actually utter the words “I am Gay”…….

      Jan 2, 2010 at 2:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      terrwill,

      I did read your posts and I have to disagree. I don’t believe that we can summarize that a conservative church, family, residential area, etc. all suggest that being out as Bi is instantly acceptable while being out as Gay is instantly not.

      Also, I think there’s an assumption of both intent, power, and even background to make decisions about one’s personal identity.

      Also, yes, DC has a sizable Queer (and homophobic and biphobic) population. {I mean, it’s no Chelsea but…} Will that instantly change how he identifies depending on where he lives or the organizations in which he works/worked (I mean, HRC is pretty Gay positive, at least in theory, and he still identifies as Bi)? Further, he lives by Denver, in what describes as a suburb. Unless the place wicked changed, there’s more than a few Gay positive associations, bars, clubs, organizations, and hey, Cheeseman Park there– all adding in to the possibility of having a positive Gay identity–he still identifies as bi.

      To assume that he will identify otherwise is pretty assumptive that bisexuality is still a road trip toward Gaydom, which even he has stressed in his case it’s not.

      So why exactly are we doubting him and assuming that Queerdom knows better?

      Jan 2, 2010 at 2:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      Glasshouses, I am making my case based on many instances of seeing persons first claiming to be Bi because they are as I said taking tenative steps towards the “G” word. No one is knocking Bi persons. I am making an observation based on numerous personal friends and aquaintances who travled that road towards ultimately declaring themselves Gay. And in the years I have been out I have had know many as Bi for a couple of years at best, however I known them as Gay for many more years……

      Jan 2, 2010 at 3:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steph
      Steph

      Glasshouses: thank you for your excellent insight. You put that very well.

      I would even suggest that many straight-identified men are willing to experiment with other men if they were sufficiently relaxed, in an anonymous situation and/or with someone noone else would believe (picture: running into your home-town’s preacher’s son in a gay bar in a nearby city while traveling on business). I know I don’t have any trouble making out with women after i’ve had a few shots, LOL.

      I think that the vast majority of bisexuals publicly identify as either straight or gay… to get ignorant people to stop pestering them! And because they don’t want to lose the support and fellowship they have in whatever subculture they participate. As we have seen, gays can be just as exclusionary as straights when it comes to bisexuals.

      I’m absolutely convinced that one’s behaviour should not be used to determine their orientation. Behaviour is easily faked, and easily hidden. One’s orientation is determined by their feelings and needs, whether or not they are acknowledged, actualized or even consious.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 3:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steph
      Steph

      I’m fairly certain that Mike will eventually identify publicly as either straight or gay… sadly, he is before his time. The gay and straight establishments are still too ignorant and insecure to tolerate the idea that a “third sex” are the majority.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Eric
      Eric

      I’ll raise my glass to the viewpoints espoused by Glasshouse. It is entirely unbecoming to tear apart any part of the LGBT community.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 3:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      I can understand Mike’s choice to come out and say he is Bi rather than gay. Being a gay male myself, I have to say coming out to friends and family is very difficult and I am still currently in the process. Being gay for me is not a choice; it is a trait that your born with which most straight people can’t fully understand since they aren’t in the situation. I am attracted to guys and its just something that I have to live with. Having to explain the way you are to family and friends is extremely difficult, I wouldn’t even want to think how much of a challenge it would be trying to explain it to the whole nation being on a TV show that Mike is on. While some argue that coming out to be bi and gay are accepted the same, it doesn’t work that way. Stating you are bi is much more accepted than coming out and that you are strictly gay. The majority of the straight population feel that being gay is wrong, against god’, and morally wrong but a bi person is considered to like the same sex, but it if often looked over because that person is still saying that they are somewhat straight in a way and not entirely homosexual. Its a hard thing to explain, but I can understand Mikes choice to announce that he is bi rather than gay. Being gay is very hard and we aren’t treated the same as straight people- its just a fact and Mike choose to use the identity of being bi because its more accepted in society especially his age group than being simply gay. I hope you can understand what I’m trying to say and rather than argue the issue, I think we should support Mike in his efforts. Its not easy to be different and I don’t think he is ready to tell the world that he is fully gay and only interested in men. Coming out is a very hard thing to do. No one chooses to be gay and for many of us it takes time for us to discover and accept our own identity and even more time for us to be comfortable sharing it. I do give him credit for sharing it on the first day. Here he doesn’t know any of these people that he will be living with and no one wants to give a bad impression on the first day, but I think Mike handled the issue well. By the way he is really hot!

      Jan 2, 2010 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      The gay sexual identity is often a political statement rather than a statement of actual sexual orientation. Identity is often political because it involves an assertion of self in a world that is socially constructed to counter that assertion. The straight sexual identity is also heavily political, however, in this case, it is an assertion of self designed to counter the notion that one is not masculine.

      I can safely say that 50% of all men I’ve met who identify as “gay” are actually bisexual in their orientation. Of all the men I’ve met who identify as “straight”, about 90% are actually bisexual.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 56 · As far as the straight guys I know, after a few adult beverages 100% of them suddenly become Try-sexual : P

      Jan 2, 2010 at 7:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Terrwill,

      That’s very true. Most straight-identifying guys are stigmatized when sober, de-stigmatized when drunk. The alcohol reduces the stigma.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 7:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steph
      Steph

      Let’s do the right thing and fight to de-stigmatize homosexual behaviour in our culture, instead of giving bisexuals the shocker by screaming “yer really just gaaaaaay!

      Jan 2, 2010 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteamPunk
      SteamPunk

      Whether Mike is gay or bisexual – I really couldn’t care less. (Though, I’m sure many will gladly shout “I was right!” from the mountaintops if he does come out as gay.) I’m far more interested in how he reconciles his religion with his sexuality, since I’m kind of going through the same thing.

      What really is also interesting to me is that so many supposedly-progressive gay people here tend to be so down on bisexuals.

      A close straight friend and I were talking about this type of prejudice (and possibly even hatred) a couple of weeks ago and he didn’t seem convinced that it exists *so strongly* in the gay community. (I love him to death, but he’s naive about gay people) So, I just sent him the links to Queerty’s two recent stories about Mike and said: “Still don’t believe me? Just read the comments”

      Jan 2, 2010 at 8:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      Steampunk,

      What surprises me is that the reaction from the Gay male community (interestingly I have personally found far less negative reaction from the Lesbian community) has not changed much in several years.

      I recall when “Bi any other name” came out, and then “Vice Versa” after that, then some Butler, add in some Vaid– and we all kept waiting for biphobia to pass as homophobia became less accepted.

      ‘Still waiting, and that first book was published in ’92 I believe, the others well after that and the Kinsey Institute’s work on bisexuality, well beforehand. ‘Still waiting.

      Having noted, the book Queer Youth Queer Cultures found a very interesting trend among youth: identity is so fluid and debatable that coming up with a term is a foolish argument to be made, so why bother? I kind of dig that.

      In terms of the religious aspect, that is actually much more difficult for me personally. I’m a secular, atheist Jew with Quaker children. As such, reconciliations within religions are really not in my personal sphere. Having noted, and I think that this was actually suggested in the last RW, some denominations are clearly accepting, aren’t they? (I know Quakers are big time, Reformed Jews ditto, but also Unitarian Univeralists, and it seems like several others more and more.)

      The intersection of religion and identity is a topic that is so foreign to me that, no offense intended, I can’t understand the draw and hence, it’s hard for me to understand the inability to say “well, they’re wrong” or more “they’re wrong and I don’t need them.” But again, I’m an atheist so I wouldn’t understand the consternation, which makes conversations with religious people, I understand, very difficult. One of my friends notes “like describing missing seeing green to a blind man.” It’s pretty hard to fathom on both sides.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 8:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      PS: Thanks Eric and Steph. Sorry for the double post.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 8:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      “Let’s do the right thing and fight to de-stigmatize homosexual behaviour in our culture, instead of giving bisexuals the shocker by screaming “yer really just gaaaaaay!”

      Steph, perfectly said it above. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of gay guys who are petty, selfish and sex-obsessed. Their “you’re really gay” notion is simply a quest for sexual intercourse with a man they find hot.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 10:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • YouthSpeaking
      YouthSpeaking

      Hello, I am a bisexual male that is in his teens. From reading some of these comments, a handful of you sudjest that all young people are bisexual and just havent desided weather to be straight or gay/lesbian. What makes you think this? Will I later on in life choose to be either straight or gay?

      Jan 2, 2010 at 11:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • knightgee
      knightgee

      I see it didn’t take long before people started accusing him of being gay and closeted about it, as is often the case when someone bisexual admits to being bisexual. You aren’t doing the Bs of LGBT any favors by insisting that they can only belong to the gay or straight club and are just deluding themselves.

      Jan 2, 2010 at 11:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      YouthSpeaking,

      You may identify as straight, gay, or bi. Most importantly, you need to be content with whatever your identification may be, thats what’s most important.

      Do some young people believe that they are attracted to both or the same sex and then realize that they are attracted to the same, opposite, or to both sexes? Yes, definitely. Do all bisexuals “end up” straight or gay? Definitely not, nor should you feel that you will.

      I was born before Stonewall, which puts me up there in age, I know. When I was younger, I identified as sort of straight, possibly gay, and then definitely bi— and I was 22 when I relized the latter. That was about half my life ago.

      Have others had different journies? Yes, certainly, and there is simply no one clear, constant path. The best thing is to ensure that you’re happy and proud at the end destination, whatever it may be.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 12:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stephen
      stephen

      On a message board, one of Mike’s roommates says that he’s definitely gay and he’ll get over the bi thing towards the end of the season.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 1:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • YouthSpeaking
      YouthSpeaking

      glasshouses

      i am attracted to both sexs. i can see myself wit both, but on the other hand a woman is for comfort and a guy is for comfort and sex and other things so do i like men more because of that? I dream about having sex with men and never women is that akward

      Jan 3, 2010 at 1:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • knightgee
      knightgee

      @Stephen:

      Why is Mike’s roommate suddenly an expert on Mike? If Mike identifies as bisexual, then that is all you or anyone else needs to know. Mike is the expert on Mike and no one else. Assuming that he’ll “go gay” based on speculation, gossip and assumptions you’re making about his background is incredibly insulting. Nothing about Mike suggests he isn’t comfortable with his sexual identity and if he were as reticent about being openly gay as some people here claim, he would be far less likely to associate with campaigns and organizations that are publicly pro-gay, which he seems to have no problem at all doing.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 1:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      To Knightgee: Completely concur and more, if Mike identifies as Gay, Bi, Straight, Pansexual, or into sheep and llamas, bully bully for him. The only one that should get to define as such would and should be him. To suggest that Queerty and Queerdom (and Mike’s roomate) have the right to do so is to either A) assume a sheer dearth of Mike’s own abilities and insights or B) some potential projection (“It’s okay dear, we’ll make you realize the Gay Light! Walk into the Gay Light! Walk to it!”)

      Youthspeak: It’s not awkward, it’s just that you’re realizing that your sexuality can’t be pigeonholed into one easy category. That may change and alter over time. The big thing is that yes, you can indeed be bi and proud of it. If you are fall in love with or are attracted to a man instead of a woman and realize that is what is best suited for you, great! If you do the opposite or are attracted to both, cool for you! The big thing is to not assume that any end result is a given. There are a lot of possibilities on this road.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 1:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anthony in Nashville
      Anthony in Nashville

      I’m not understanding the comments about being bisexual even if you don’t have sex with both genders.

      Is that supposed to be like straight people who claim to be “mentally gay” in terms of how they view the world?

      Jan 3, 2010 at 9:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rabblevox
      rabblevox

      @ glasshouses:
      Spot the f* on! I am a 50 yo bi man. In my youth, I thought of myself as straight, but I kept winding up with a guy in my mouth or butt when I was drunk or stoned enough.

      Fast forward a few years, I realized that I really LIKE a guy in my mouth or butt. I came out to my religious family, and my small-town friends, and went through the attendant pride, fear, acceptance, condemnation, etc. You all know the drill.

      Fast forward a few more years. I’m living out, loud, and proud. I’ve done the therapy and the support groups, I’ve gotten political. I’ve got a BF that I like and trust and who turns me into a quivering lump of post-orgasmic bliss in the sack. These are all good things, right? Then why do I feel something is missing?

      Fast forward a few more, and it hits me. I miss women. I miss their touch, their scent, their minds. I miss their soft smooth skin. I miss their musky salty smell when aroused.

      Jump to the present. I know today that I am pan-sexual. (I prefer pan to bi, because bi implies the whole binary, either/or thing). I know that I can love (and lust) after women, men, and trans-people. I know that the mind is the body’s biggest erogenous zone, and the mind is gender-neutral.

      I know today that sexuality and love provide a rainbow of options (remember the flag, peeps). I know that refusing to be pigeon-holed or put into a box is difficult.

      I know that it is not about being confused, in the closet, ashamed or in denial.

      It’s about being true to, and honoring, all the various parts and desires and needs that make me me.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 10:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stephen
      stephen

      @knightgee

      I agree with you but I was just posting what I read somewhere else in case anyone wanted a spoiler or whatever happens in the season with his sexuality.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 10:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 68 · YouthSpeaking: First off dude don’t assume that people are hating on the Bis who post here. There is nothing wrong with those who identify as such. My point here is that most guys identify as Bi are using it as like being Gay with training wheels………….Commin out is a huge freakin step, not the same as telling your friends and family that you like Pepsi instead o Coke. I got a few questions for you: I assume you live with the ‘rents. Are your freinds and family aware of your Bi-ness? or do you keep it on the DL? I always knew I was Gay but pretended to like girls only because of the situation at my HS, I was on the wrestling team, hung out with a few different cliques, I was ascared to come out. That being said I hooked a lot because there were good amount of guys in the same situation as I. If you truly are Bi, good for you. Too many guys are ascared to proclaim the Gay tag and live their lives as Bi. They get married, even have kids all the while doin’ guys on the side, most times the wife doesn’t know. Thats not being Bi thats fearing the shit that will come from identifying as Gay.
      Bestest thing for you to do is to check out a local Gay center, they all have youth programs with teens identifying as Gay and Bi. I know the Center I frequent is real careful in protecting the teens as far as making sure everything is discrete and not drawing attention to you if you don’t want anyone to know. Check it out and explore all your options………….

      Jan 3, 2010 at 11:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David Ehrenstein
      David Ehrenstein

      “The gay sexual identity is often a political statement rather than a statement of actual sexual orientation”

      And the staright sexual identity isn’t?

      Jan 3, 2010 at 12:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M
      M

      It’s easier to come out as bisexual, really? Tell that to my family who won’t talk to me and my friends who abandoned me. No one condemns bisexuals? Tell that to all the rabid xtians who say “next the bisexuals will want to have polymamory if we allow same – sex marriage” or who keep trying to convert us. No one is killing us? Tell that to the bisexuals that have been killed in the past couple of months. You really are full of s*** if you think we don’t have to deal with crap too. You hear about it less b/c both the gay and the straight media don’t mention us enough, and why would any bi person, especially a guy, come out and have to deal with all this shit when it’s easier to just go with the pressure and say you are gay? If you’re so confident that it’s always “bi now, gay later”, then there shouldn’t need to be pressure on anyone to identify as gay should there now?

      Newsflash: most of the straight world doesn’t consider us much different from you, or even worse-a sexual toy, whereas they may not like you but will at least take you more seriously. Whether you like it or not, we do exist and more and more of us are going to come out as what we are, and you’re just going to have to deal. Otherwise you’re no better than the straights. If you’re in a position to be stigmitizing others, then you obviously don’t have it so bad.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • What?
      What?

      What is with all the bullshit spewed in these debates about bisexuality?

      The claims that everyone is really bisexual is just plain stupid. Where are all these straight men who sleep with both women and men and these gay men who sleep with both women and men?

      If everyone was bisexual there’d be no hatred against gays in the first place.

      Pull your heads out of your asses and stop cooking up theories that don’t exist anywhere outside of your fantasies.

      Everyone is not bisexual, least of all men. Even most women who claim to be only do it for attention or experimentation. How many actually date and bed men and women?

      Where are all these bisexuals who are checking out everyone, flirting with everyone, dating everyone, and sleeping with everyone?

      I’m calling bullshit.

      I’m sure bisexuals exist, but not even close to the scale many of you are claiming. There are less bisexuals than anyone else. The proof is in everyday life.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 12:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dan
      Dan

      @what? do some research before you say stupid things. look up all the bisexual groups in the country and you’ll find quite a few. of course that would mean you have to educate yourself and leave your bigotry behind-I know that’s asking a lot. While you’re at it, why don’t you go “pray away the gay?” I mean, if we don’t exist, then you don’t either, so you can just pray it out.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 12:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • What?
      What?

      I am gay and have no reason to pray away the gay you jackass.

      Do research and look up online groups rather than use my eyes and ears to see your bullshit doesn’t exist in reality? Nah.

      I said bisexuals exist, just not on the scale you claim they do. Feel free to post proof that refutes that claim.

      So far you only posted fluff with no content.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 12:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
    • Steve
      Steve

      hey “what”-YOU made the claim, you prove it. Prove we DON’T exist. Of course you don’t need to do any research-bigots never do. I agree with the poster above-if you have the luxury of being bigoted against others, you must not have it so bad. If you actually did bother to do research, you’d see there are plenty of us, and it’s been all over more and more, look at some of the links above. Of course, that means you have to go outside your narrow world view. Don’t worry, no one is expecting you to actually use your brain. You can go back to your narrow world view now.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 12:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • What?
      What?

      I didn’t make the claim that everyone is at least a little bit bisexual. Though it’s clear you don’t know how to read considering I never once said bisexuals don’t exist.

      In short: You’re an idiot.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 12:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rabblevox
      rabblevox

      The idiocy and bigotry here is simply stunning. As an older, completely out bi man, a massive FU to the judgmental, thoughtless, and moronic posters who think bisexuality means hiding, pretending, or denying.

      I tell you true being out and bi is far, FAR more challenging than being out and gay. The straight world still looks at me as gay. No bonus points because I enjoy cunnilingus. The queer world far too often thinks I am pretending, keeping “one foot in the closet”, in denial, confused, etc.

      I can love both men and women. Sometimes I top, sometimes I bottom. Most often though, I simply make love to a person that I like and am attracted to, regardless of gender.

      I do not, and would never, make the claim that “all people are bi”. Simply not true.

      I do make the claim that we live in an analogue, not a digital world. There are a lot of settings on the dial between 1 and 10.

      We are here, we are as queer as you, and if we are out we endure more shit than you could imagine. Get over it, get used to it, and quit assembling the circular firing squad.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 1:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NJ
      Brian NJ

      I totally agree with Dan Savage on bisexuality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2sIf_sVYuc

      Jan 3, 2010 at 2:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rabblevox
      rabblevox

      @ Brian NJ

      Dan Savage is always entertaining, frequently provoking, and occasionally illuminating.

      On the subject of bisexuality, he speaks from neither experience or research, and is not only wrong, but dangerously wrong.

      Either do the research, or live and love another 20 years. You know not what you claim to speak.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 2:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      Oh yes, I often look to a man who concludes the presentation of his research with allusions to shacking up with the Family Research Council with the utmost respect for academic intergrity and accuracy.

      Dan is little more than the Morton Downey, Jr. of the Queer Community– except he dresses worse.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 2:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rabblevox
      rabblevox

      Ever wished your male lover was softer, smother, more femme?
      YOU ARE BI

      Ever wished you were softer, smoother, more femme for your male lover?
      YOU ARE BI

      Ever watched straight porn and fantasized about playing both roles?
      YOU ARE BI

      Ever realized that you love both pussy juice and semen?
      YOU ARE TOTALLY BI

      Ever dressed as the opposite sex, OR made love to someone dressed as the opposite sex?
      YOU ARE BI

      Ever gotten hard from BOTH a dick and a pussy?
      YOU ARE BI

      Jan 3, 2010 at 3:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      >>> I have a friend who claims he too is Bi-Sexual……..
      He sleeps with men and boys! : P

      Jan 3, 2010 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      Terrwill,

      By my count you’ve repeated that “joke” three times, and unlike wine, its not getting better with age, but it doesn’t surprise me.

      and after all,

      1) liking little boys? Isn’t that you gay guys’ territory? Oh ha ha ha, how fun it is to laugh.

      2) you again negate the idea that there we as bisexual (males? not sure about females) exist, as we are “claiming” to be bi, all the while claiming in a number of posts that you aren’t disrespecting bisexuals. That would be either you being a liar or a hypocrite.

      3) “did you hear about the gay guy? Yea, he turned queer only after the butt ass ugly chicks turned him down, so he decided to get into ugly asses, literally.” Heard from a right wing politico– that’s your enemy, not us.

      4) The assumptions on this thread about bisexuals are not only insulting to the B youth and adults in our community but also to the partners of those same people. Hence, the only “real” relationships apparently must be with same sex while the assumption that we are merely biding our ever so devious time until we fall for that “real” relationship, which is, of course, with a gay person (“OH my god! I’m basking in the Gay Light! Praise, praise, I’m released!”). Why not just assume that gay folk are with the same sex until their/your real interest comes around, read as: You shake off the shackles of this mental condition of gender confusion and realize that you are supposed to be with a woman. That’s from Dobson, actually. Again, he’s against us– all of us.

      All of this serves to actually reinforce (and I can’t believe I’m agreeing with him) Dan Savage’s point that yes, bisexuals who are in relationships with opposite sex partners tend to not associate much with the rest of the GLBT community. Although hardly the only reason, judging by some of these responses, is there really any wonder in why?

      Dinner is served, first course: our own.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 6:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PaulAndersen
      PaulAndersen

      This man is pathetic.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 6:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 89 · glasshouses: I see your New Years resolution to attempt to find a sense of humor isn’t going too well……..Oh well there is always 2011…………

      Jan 3, 2010 at 6:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 89 · glasshouses: And aren’t you people in glasshouses not supposed to throw stones???????? : P

      Jan 3, 2010 at 6:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Let’s not get too hung up on the definition of “bisexual” because it’s used a lot of different ways. You can focus on the behavior—having sex with people who are male/female/trans/intersex/transitioning, with all those words between quotation marks—OR, use the word to mean the attraction to both/all.

      Having had sex with women and with men (never on the same day!), I could technically be labeled as Bi. I identify as Gay, however. I get crushes on women from time to time, but have sexual thoughts almost never about them. If I were on an island with no suitable men available, trust me I would be having some seriously good sex with a woman. [Queen Latifah or Julianne Moore come to mind!] That said, I’m very unlikely to pick a woman as a partner in life or for a sexmate when the primary subject of my attraction — MEN — are close at hand and craving my attention! [well, that pool is pretty limited too!]

      Point is? No reason to argue with someone’s choice of their own label. If you say you’re Bi, then even if you only engage in sex with one gender, how the hell can I know the details of your attractions? Plus, some of those attractions DO ebb and flow as we grow and age. It’s not carved in stone for everyone.

      Even if someone saying they’re Bi is just part of their coming out process, well, let that person work out the details without outside interference, please. No one needs or benefits from the pressure of conforming to other people’s schedules or biases. Really!

      Be well, and be kind.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 8:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Damn, I wish I were so even-tempered, sane, understanding and wise in the real world!

      Jan 3, 2010 at 10:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #2 using similar name]

      Gay men are generally not good sources of information when it comes to human sexuality. Their viewpoint is informed by what they see in the sex clubs they frequently attend. They have little, if any, in the way of rounded knowledge of human sexuality in general.

      Gay men are also steeped in porn. Their lives often revolve around porn movies and the unrealistic images of men therein. As a result, their view is warped.

      The most informed and intelligent gay men are those who don’t confine themselves to the gay scene but actually go out and integrate into the world. This enables them to become informed in a way that is rounded and realistic.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 10:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Katie212
      Katie212

      Mike is gay. Living in DC all he dated this summer were guys. Weird since DC has plenty of single girls.

      Jan 3, 2010 at 10:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • YouthSpeaking
      YouthSpeaking

      katie212

      How would you know all he dated were men? If he says he’s bi, then he’s bi!

      Jan 3, 2010 at 10:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Jason: Are you generalizing about “gay men”? Wow, I should take that personally, huh?

      Sorry, guy, but you need to engage the brain gear before you try to get the car out of the BISEXUALS ONLY Parking Garage. That unfounded comment of yours won’t stop me from fighting for the rights of GLBTs to get decent mental health services when they seek them, or trying to educate physicians, psychologists, etc. around the world about human sexuality, and helping to spread info based on scientific research, rather than tired old, unfounded myths.

      Perhaps you might want to think a little harder before stereotyping other people?

      Jan 3, 2010 at 10:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • luis p.r.
      luis p.r.

      wow! bigotry and ignorance in the gay community??? that’s nice… let’s all contribute to the family research council while were at it!

      Jan 4, 2010 at 12:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      Wooh, I don’t have a drivers license (who needs one in NYC and the Northeast?) but even if I did, I won’t be sharing the Bisexuals Only Garage with Jason with that kind of thinking. Was that supposed to be sarcasm?

      Seriously, are you matching a joke with a joke, fallacy with fallacy? If so, you may want to point out the punchline.

      And youthspeaking: you got it. It’s his right to define his identity, period. Full stop.

      Jan 4, 2010 at 12:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HueMan
      HueMan

      The positive message from all of these disputes is that human sexuality is complex and evolving. Each of us has likes and dislikes and has life experiences (usually) consistent with those likes and dislikes. The interaction of our own desires with society’s definitions leads to much of the conflict and confusion – the half-tone gay/bi/straight doesn’t accurately describe anyone’s multi-hued sexual palette. The public expression of one’s sexuality only complicates the issues.

      I can’t get too worked up about Mike’s self-label. He’s an actor whose job is to promote his TV show and his after-RW career. My guess is he pretty well knows his likes and dislikes or he wouldn’t expose his private life to the TV culture!

      Finally, the Internet has been around for less than a generation and websites like Queerty have already changed the dynamics of the gay community. On a humorous note, Newsweek describes the problems my fellow Canadian encountered in his porn research: http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thehumancondition/archive/2009/12/08/the-problem-with-male-porn-virgins-new-study-doesn-t-say-much-but-sure-is-fun-to-write-about.aspx. HNY 2010

      Jan 4, 2010 at 1:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Gaydar? Bi-dar?
      Sidetracking the convo a bit, but a friend of mine who is truly 99.99% hetero told his college girlfriend that he was Bi because someone told him that “girls love that.” He’s never been with a guy or anywhere close to it, has no attraction to men, but his line worked magic with her, and guess what, they’ve been married for 8 years and together for 10. Happily together other than squabbles about redoing the kitchen cabinets.
      She’s a great person too, and didn’t discover the ruse until they’d been together for about 4 years. She only asked him to be monogymous, which he has been. He has a gay brother, a straight bro,a gay sister and two ex-hippie parents. Some of my gay friends will say to him like “too bad about the whole curse of being hetero” and his stock answer is “yep, tough job, but I cope.” Not too many people being apologetic about being hetero, huh? Weird thing is that he has zero gaydar skills. No bi-dar either, I guess for him or his wife. It’s good to know fun and decent straight people, among others, at any rate.

      Jan 4, 2010 at 2:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Todd
      Todd

      Just get over it people. Gay. Straight. Bisexual. Whatever.

      He’s a genuine, intelligent, and beautiful man.

      Stop loathing yourselves through him and go the gym.

      Jan 5, 2010 at 3:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RichardIII
      RichardIII

      Terrwill, that “joke” about the men and the boys is NOT funny at all.

      Jan 5, 2010 at 2:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kat
      Kat

      As a bisexual woman, I find this terribly depressing: So bisexuality doesn’t exist, “just gay with issues”?! Or is the consensus here male bisexuality doesn’t exist? How is all of this different from Christians who believe that being gay is a lifestyle choice? How the f#ck do you get to define another person’s sexuality????

      Jan 5, 2010 at 6:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dasher
      Dasher

      Terrwill, gay with training wheels…priceless

      Jan 5, 2010 at 7:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • YouthSpeaking
      YouthSpeaking

      WTF!

      Is it so hard to believe there are some legitimate bisexual man in the world? For woman when your bisexual there is no question about it, but for men there`s this theory that we’re afraid to admit that we’re gay? I am truely a bisexual and not afraid to admit im gay..,if i ever become that way which i mostlikly won’t. To everyone who has the bi now gay later thoery, it will remain just that a THEORY!!

      Jan 5, 2010 at 9:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      Sing it, my brothers and sisters in bi-dom.

      Jan 6, 2010 at 1:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteveDenver
      SteveDenver

      His claim to bisexuality helps reserve a glimmer of hope for a “normal christian life,” even though he’s pigging out on hot guys.

      Reminds me of all the “purity pledge” girls who are giving head and taking anal so they can still be “virgins.”

      Jan 6, 2010 at 8:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tyler
      Tyler

      I know Mike in real life and can tell you that I know for a FACT that he has had sex with men. As a matter of fact, he has had tow boyfriends (Rob and Tanner), both of which he’s had sex with.

      This whole bisexual thing is a publicity stunt by Mike. He is GAY. He has been out to all the gay bars in Denver, had a TON of gay friends, and had a long term boyfriend for close to a year and a half. He then slept with Tanner and dumped Rob the next day to date Tanner. There is no mystery here, Mike is GAY and the past two years of his life have been filled with gay experiences.

      I even have pictures! CMON!

      Jan 6, 2010 at 12:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      just because the last 2 years he’s had only gay experiences doesn’t mean he’s gay. so say, the next 2 years he’ll only have hetero experiences, does that then mean he’s straight.

      bi peeps get to be with both sexes and can just concentrate on one sex for an indeterminate time and the go to another sex. it doesn’t stop them from being bi.

      Jan 6, 2010 at 12:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Republican
      Republican

      He’s gay as fuck. That having been said, it’s sad that an article about a shitty show has received significantly more responses than many articles on issues that actually matter in life.

      Jan 6, 2010 at 12:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jjgg5
      jjgg5

      Really, aren’t most people bisexual, especially the Republicans?

      Jan 6, 2010 at 10:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • YouthSpeaking
      YouthSpeaking

      Hello, I am a bisexual male in his teens. My mom is homophbic. Do you have any tips on telling her about me liking guys? I don’t wanna keep this from her for the rest of my life.

      TYLER:
      Can you send some of those pictures?

      Jan 7, 2010 at 12:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      youthspeaking,

      HRC has some potential considerations for you; http://www.hrc.org/issues/coming_out.asp

      Hope these help.

      Jan 7, 2010 at 12:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      I was raised religiously, recognized I had gay leanings early and focused on those and interpreted myself as gay. Later, after I’d fully accepted myself as gay and no longer had the internal walls and conflict over sexuality, I discovered something… I found a girl I knew to be incredibly attractive. I’d always had blocks up to women because I thought that any attraction I had was simply me convincing myself of something or wanting to conform to some ideal.

      However, with the way that the situation played out with this girl, she had already known me as gay, wanted nothing serious, etc so it was just this free playground without the previous walls I’d had growing up with girlfriends of “I’m lying to her, none of this is real” or even “this has to work out to prove to myself I’m not gay”, etc due to my need to fit into one label or another. But, coming out didn’t solve anything, and at first I thought it was because I was still self-loathing as other posters suggest.

      It was because growing up, let’s say 25% of me was gay, but because I’d made it into this false gay-straight binary decision, one gay thought means you’re gay… is how our society trained me anyway. Once in a situation where I didn’t have all the “I must be x or y” and removed all the emotional attachments to outcomes, I found who I really was… and I was profoundly attracted to this girl. She could turn me on so easily that she only had to touch my leg lightly in public and I’d be instantly hard. Being with her was incredible. I had gone through the thoughts of “well, I could marry a girl and maybe enjoy sex as much as 80% as with a guy.” But when I was with her I discovered that even with our clothes still on, she could turn me on more than 4 times as much as any guy ever had! It was surprising to say the least!

      I feel that the whole attitude that a number of posters express here where “if you have one gay thought or one gay experience and enjoy it you are therefore gay” damages so many people and draws them incorrectly to the same conclusion I did… If you have a bucket of white paint and drop a single drop of black into it, does it mean the paint is now black? If you thought you were straight many years and slept with women most your life then started having relationships and sex with men and found it much more satisfying… then good for you! But, conversely, if I thought I was gay and later on discovered a very real and powerful attraction to women that I had been ignoring before… then shouldn’t I be allowed to “come out” as bi or even hetero?

      The saddest part is that the gay community is just as judgmental as the religious right! The gays say “you had sex with guys, you liked it, you’re gay… period”. Shouldn’t we recognize the variety in life? The fact that not everyone fits some perfect model of Gay or Straight and many fall somewhere between the extremes. It’s rare to find someone who is *exactly* 50-50… sure… someone who is 49-51 may then shack up with a guy. So the fact that bi #s decrease over time may just be that as guys figure out which they lean more to, they go with that… maybe they are 66% gay, but really want kids that are biologically their own and that drive makes it fine for them to compromise. They still love and are attracted to their wives… though, those could be the guys in the CL postings hooking up with guys on the side (of which I do not approve. pick the person to be faithful to and commit)

      I’m just really tired of having to explain myself. After I took down my walls and preconceptions, I found women significantly more of a turn on than guys… which shocked the hell out of me… and I’d be lying to myself and any future boyfriend to say otherwise… shouldn’t I be allowed the freedom to marry a woman I love without past boyfriends picketing my wedding? I say I’m “Bi” because if I said I’m “straight” I’d be ignoring all the relationships with guys I’d had and that would be lying… but to say I’m fully gay would also be a lie… please, gay community, accept your bisexual brothers not as someone who just hasn’t accepted himself as gay (which I’m sure there are a number) but as a real category and do not minimize us or treat us as ignorant or in denial.

      Jan 8, 2010 at 4:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M
      M

      Oh look a very recent interview where Mike confirms he’s BI! I know, I know, he’s just in denail-sorry evangelicals…..whoops, I mean gay men

      http://www.metroweekly.com/feature/?ak=4765

      Jan 9, 2010 at 3:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Couldn’t help but notice that the night the house goes out, Mike is kissing all over a female but, he ended up taking a male home with him, because they guy was conveniently attached to a penis.

      Mike Manning is not bi. He, like most men who claim to be bi, is just another gay man who thinks labeling himself “bi” makes him more masculine and is afraid the label “gay” will mean he’s a sissy.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 12:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      “He, like most men who claim to be bi, is just another gay man who thinks labeling himself “bi” makes him more masculine and is afraid the label “gay” will mean he’s a sissy.”

      Of course, Herb knows this intimately as he’s entered into the thought processes of Mike Manning and every other bi guy out there.

      “But I’ve met…” “But I’ve seen….” “But I know better than…” “But the Gay Crystal Ball told me….” These arguments just get repeated constantly without even the benefit of a rinse.

      I’m off now to the Evangelicals Inc. meeting. They seem to somehow know that gay men are delusional, just need to pray out the gay, come out as red blooded straight guys, and all will be well. Praise, praise.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 12:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • victoria
      victoria

      its quite possible he’s actually gay, but a lot of you seem to have this attitude that bisexuality isn’t a legitimate sexuality. that is just as judgemental as homophobia, so get off your gay high horse in fantasy land where all the hot guys are either gay, gay and pretending not to be, gay and unaware of their sexuality, or, oh here’s a new one, gay.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 12:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dana
      Dana

      Mike Manning is not bi. He, like most men who claim to be bi, is just another gay man who thinks labeling himself “bi” makes him more masculine and is afraid the label “gay” will mean he’s a sissy.

      So what, bi men don’t make out with men? Hello, BOTH ways! What is wrong with you? Here’s what he said about people like you and biphobia in an interview that just came out yesterday:

      http://www.metroweekly.com/feature/?ak=4765

      MW: Norm Korpi, who was on the very first season of Real World, told me the show’s edits presented him as bi, although he’s gay. You can confirm that’s not happening with you, right?

      MANNING: No, no. I hate America’s obsessive need to categorize everything. You’re either black or white. You’re either gay or straight. You’re either this or that. Even in the gay community, there’s like this biphobia. Everybody’s like, “You have to be gay or straight. You can’t be bi. You can’t like both. It’s not who you are. Blah, blah, blah.” Isn’t that committing the same crime they’re preaching against? They’re saying, “Don’t judge me, but I’m going to judge you within our own community.”

      People should not give a shit. The question “What are you?” shouldn’t even exist. If you’re attracted to somebody, flirt with them. See where it goes. I like guys and girls. I’ve dated girls, had sex with girls and enjoyed it very much. I find females very attractive. I find males very attractive. If I want to date a guy, I’ll date a guy. If I want to date a girl, I’ll date a girl.

      MW: So you’ve gotten a dose of biphobia?And I can tell you honestly that every gay guy so far, when we’ve actually gotten to know each other, they’re like, “Wow, I think you really are bi. You really do like girls.” A lot of older gay guys that I’ve talked to, they say, “Oh, you’re not bi. You’re just saying that. It’s a transitional phase.” Whatever.

      MANNING: Absolutely. A lot. For whatever reason, God hardwired my brain to be aroused with both and I’m not going to question it. I’m just going to live my life and be honest with people. I like who I like.

      People should stop, take a second and think to themselves, “Hey, does this affect me?” Who they like, who they want to marry or sleep with or spend the rest of their life with, does that affect me? If the answer is no — and 99.9 percent of the time it’s going to be no — then keep walking.

      If somebody doesn’t like me because I’m bi, then I’ll move on. I could give two shits. Get your nose out of my business.

      MW: You’re also pretty casual about the terms “gay” and “bisexual.” You’ve used both to describe yourself.

      MANNING: I am casual, because I think that’s the way it should be. Honestly, it doesn’t make a difference to me. For the sake of other people trying to understand me or whatever, I say “bisexual.” Right now, I am looking to date a guy, so if they want to call me “gay,” that’s fine. But I’m going to lunch with my ex-girlfriend next week. If we hit it off, start dating again, start sleeping together, I’m straight again?

      I think “gay” and “bi” are interchangeable. I can say, “Yeah, I’m gay, but I still like girls.”

      “Hey, I’m straight, but…” That doesn’t work so much.

      Do what you want with the terms. I just want it understood that I hate categories and I hate being labeled. I’m “Mike-sexual.” That means if I want to date a 100-year-old Aborigine, I’m going to do it and I’m not going to give a shit what anybody else thinks.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 1:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Mike Manning is correct. There is an unseemly obsession in American to pigeon-hole men into the gay or straight category. It is hugely damaging to male sexuality in general. Unbelievably, much of this pigeon-holing is coming from the gay community, a community which once prided itself on having an open mind. Today’s gay community has become a danger to male sexuality in general, forcing men into categories that are unrealistic and unrepresentative.

      As far as I’m concerned, Mike has a right to call himself what he is: a biological bisexual. To all the political gays out there, I say this: get over yourselves.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      A lot of gay guys call themselves “gay” for political reasons, not real reasons. They feel pressured to partake in the clubby “you’re either with us or against us” notion of the gay community. I would say that 50% of all the self-described gay guys I’ve met in gay bars are actually bisexual in their orientation and often in their experiences as well.

      As for self-described straight guys, I’d say 90% of them are bisexual in their orientation.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      Herb, I agree that it is used that way for some guys and it’s possible that this is true for Mike as well, but judging by the interview it’s not. He may have chosen the guy to come home with because he’s experimenting more with that side of himself while he may have already dated many women.

      My contention is just that it doesn’t mean there aren’t actually bi guys who are not in denial of anything. I have had many gay or gay-friendly people treat me as though I were stupid or attempting to conform, friends who stopped talking to me because they thought I was deluded because I said that women turned me on. One was telling me how I’d talked myself into it… but I was there, I hadn’t talked myself into anything. I had stopped stressing over my attractions and was settled as “gay” when I started to really notice my hands were magnetized to this girl I knew and things went from there. Imagine what it’s like to first be ostracized by the hetero world for fooling around with guys, then to be constantly condescended to and even lose friends in the gay community who think they know more about you than you do.

      Are gay people irritated when they are told that homosexuality is “just a phase”? Hell yeah. But it’s nearly the same issue and one would hope the gay community would appreciate how terrible it was for them and to not continue that cycle. But why do straight people believe that? Because many youth and college age kids fool around with the same sex (significantly more widespread than I ever imagined), and for many of them that behavior *is* a phase they go through, but not for all of them. I’ve heard gay college students complain that it’s so difficult to find an actual boyfriend because most of the guys they are hooking up with are mostly straight and just wanting to try something different. Kids these days (wow, I’m old enough to say that now). I have never had a close straight friend not admit to curiosity. I had a friend who had a 7 step methodology to get straight guys to sleep with him… he was ridiculously successful.

      For some gays, bisexuality is a phase they pass through at least with how they outwardly define themselves as a way to lessen the blow to family/friends, to give hope… but not for all of them. Some are genuinely and powerfully attracted to/turned on by both sexes and we need to be treated with some respect and stop trying to force us into your artificial and limited categories.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      Jason, when are you going to get over you martyr complex? I don’t know who you’re hanging around with, but I’m out and about in LA and NY all the time, and I rarely see the kind of pigeon holing your always complaining about. Most gay guys I know have no problem with people being bi.

      Maybe if you’d stop bugging your happily gay friends about how they’re really “bi” and should be doing women too, then they wouldn’t bug you. There’s nothing wrong with you being bi, no need to be so defensive, and if we think vaginas are nasty, then there’s nothing wrong with us either. LOL

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      Now the shit’s really going to hit the fan. Why do I do it? LOL

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      Romeo, unless you’re going around telling people you are bi, you probably won’t experience it. I have dealt with it from what you’d probably consider very open-minded people in LA (just last week actually!), there’s this air of “…but you’re really gay…” in their responses, if they respond to you at all.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      Romeo, I guess a good question to ask you to understand how you interpret things is “how would you categorize the other comments? do you think they were really open minded or that they pigeon-holed?”

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      Doug, I don’t dispute what you say, but why do you obsess over it? There’s always going to be snide assholes. Fuck ‘em, just do your thing. Now the shit you get from straight people about doing guys, THAT’S something to obsess over.

      I’m going to be honest with you, we see a number of bi guys coming in here with their hearts on their sleeves, and I just don’t trust their motivations. Bi guys do do the same thing to gay guys that your complaining about gay guys doing to you. Maybe that’s why gay guys feel threatened. Think about it.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      Personally, I’m much more offended by the gay community’s reactions than the straight, since they should have a clue and because they are hypocritically doing the exact same thing that they complain about. Why obsess over it? Because it means you get acceptance from NO ONE (ok, overstated, but **very very** few). At least if I were to identify as 100% gay, I’d have the gay community behind me… hmm, that sounds bad. ;) By identifying in the middle somewhere, I get little love from either camp… and the hypocrisy of “accept us! but we won’t accept other definitions of sexuality” is ridiculous. I “obsess” over the gay community side because I would think that they’d be much more willing to accept me than the heteros, yet they aren’t.

      Do you mean that bi-guys come in and try to convince gay guys that they have straight leanings?

      Jan 10, 2010 at 3:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Glasshouses knows all and can call out bs, because he/she is the one with the real insight into people. LOL

      FYI Glasshouses and Victoria, bisexuality ISN’T a legitimate sexuality as far as innate sexual orientation is concerned. Of course someone can have sex with both sexes, but who they innately prefer to have sex with is another story — as several studies over the past few years have shown.

      Men always prefer one sex over the other according to scientific studies, not a crystal ball.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 4:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Thanks, Dana, for further evidence of my point.
      “I hate America’s obsessive need to categorize everything.” Mike Manning

      People who don’t like labels are almost always trying to hide something.

      It sound’s like you, Dana, also fall into this category “Do what you want with the terms. I just want it understood that I hate categories and I hate being labeled.”

      The dislike of being labeled is nothing new. Self-hating gays &/or those who think they have some superior openmindedness have been doing it for decades.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 4:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      America’s gay community is label-obsessive. Put a label here, a label there….it’s truly ridiculous. Rather than helping people, it’s actually highly damaging to male sexuality in particular. In its quest for equal rights, the gay community is harming men.

      Perhaps this is one of the by-products of over-politicizing a natural condition such as human sexuality. It leads to a clubby “you’re with us or against us” philosophy.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 5:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Jason, just to be clear, you actually think it’s the gay community who politicized sexuality? Really!?

      Indeed, human sexuality is a natural phenomena. It is also true that for the individual it is hardwired, unchanging, and, at least for men, one sex is always preferred over the other. This is simply the real world.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 5:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      Herb,

      Really? “Scientific studies” (apparently so well regarded that they remain uncited) confirm what you note? How fascinating!

      I’m wondering:

      1) Did you happen to notify the American Psychological Association to change DSM IVTR because they seem to have gone and gotten it all wrong (see: http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx)

      2) While you are at, you might want to give the American Institute on Bisexuality a ring (see http://www.bisexual.org/home.html) . Those silly scholars and scientists seem to have been duped as they all seem to differ with you! Be certain to set them straight, or gay as the case may be.

      3) While you are at, be certain to let the authors of the Journal of Bisexuality, see ISSN: 1529-9724, that they got it all wrong. Of course, you might have to take some time contacting the authors of nine volumes of that publication, but with only four issues per volume at roughly 200 pages each issue, I’m sure you’ll have a good time. Hurry now! Hundreds of misinformed scholars are depending on you!

      4) You could always play a gay liberating Paul Revere and visit Northeastern University in Boston, telling them that their archives on the history of bisexuality (that includes men– the horror, the horror!) are all wrong. Of course, I’m certain that they’ll change the historical records of decades because you say so. Here’s their link, they’re waiting for your assistance: http://www.library.neu.edu/archives/collect/findaids/m144findprint.htm Hurry on now!

      5) I would really suggest that you speak with Fritz Klein, who of course died without you negating his life’s work. Pity. You could always read his contentions in “The Bisexual Option” but hey, why bother with him or his dozens of publications that were distributed across the globe and highly regarded by the scietific community? Silly, silly man.

      SO, Herb, tell me: These scientific articles and communities took me about, what, ten minutes at most to find, not at all hard. Where if you don’t mind me asking are yours?

      I look forward to reading what I’m sure are your ample citations that prove the Bisexual World According to Herb.

      Happy reading.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 6:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      glasshouses, your links are crap.

      Do a simple google search if you want the research.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 7:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      OMG! glasshouses, although your links link to nothing, what you printed yourself is telling.

      No on disputes bisexual behavior exists. DUH. So go ahead and quote ad nauseam about a history of bisexual behavior, idiot, it’s beside the point.

      What I was referring to, and what the studies, you are too lazy too look up, report is that innate sexual preference shows that men prefer one sex over the other.

      It’s the same type of studies that show sexual orientation is unchanging. It also reveals the liars who claim to be sexually attracted to both sexes. When you are hooked up to machines to show your arousal level, it really doesn’t matter what you say — your true feelings are revealed.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 7:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      Sure, if you consider the leading international association on psychology, the largest organization dedicated to the study of bisexuality in the United States, a peer reviewed and multicited journal, one of the only archives in the world dedicated to the historical study of sexuality, and a man who has the most impacts since Kinsey on our our understanding of the complexity of sexual identity to all be crap.

      Your citations? “The Gospel of Herb.”

      Now, that’s crap.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 7:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      Actually, those studies show an spectrum of attraction and interest and sexual arousal. Not an all or none situation– which I know must be very difficult for you to understand.

      You bore me.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 7:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #3 using similar name]

      If a 50:50 bisexually oriented man sees an attractive man next to an ugly woman, he’ll probably go for the man. However, if the same 50:50 bisexual man sees an attractive woman next to an ugly man, he’ll probably go for the woman. Both scenarios illustrate that physical attraction may well determine the gender chosen by a 50:50 bisexual man for a sexual encounter.

      On the other hand, if a 90 (hetero): 10 (homo) man – hereafter referred to as “90:10 bisexual man” sees an ugly woman next to an attractive man, he may still go for the woman despite her physical lack of attraction. His high proportion of innate heterosexual orientation may compensate for the fact that the woman is ugly compared to the man.

      As another example, if a 10 (hetero): 90 (homo) man – hereafter referred to as “10:90 bisexual man” sees an attractive woman next to an ugly man, he may still go for the ugly man for the same reason I gave to illustrate the previous example.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 7:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      Ok, I think I see the common ground. Glasshouses and Herb, would you both agree that sexuality is a spectrum and that most men will have one attraction that is stronger than the other, but not mutually exclusive?

      Jan 10, 2010 at 7:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #3 using similar name]

      Herb,

      Male bisexuality does not negate the importance of the gay rights notion. The concept of gay rights applies to anybody who engages in same-sex behavior.

      Keep in mind that the anti-sodomy laws of the past were applied to anybody who engaged in same-sex conduct regardless of whether they were exclusively homosexual or bisexual in their orientation. It was an all-encompassing law that targeted even those who might engage in same-sex behavior just once in their lifetime.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 7:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Herb is trolling. Do not get entangled in his attempts to bait you. He has offered no credentials in psychology, psychiatry, or human sexuality. He does not know the research, e.g. the stuff I spend half my work day on. I won’t repeat earlier posts on bisexuality (identity vs. behavior) but you waste your time arguing over a word with an IMPRECISE meaning.

      Save yourself from trying to convince anyone whose agenda blinds them to actual data. It leads nowhere you want to visit!

      Jan 10, 2010 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      Doug,

      Yes, certainly, realizing that the definition of sexuality may not only be that which causes physical arousal but is a more complex grid, a la Klein’s notion of identity (a rubric of identification more than a spectrum.) Yes, “most men will have one attraction that is stronger than the other, but [this is] not mutually exclusive,” or even significantly propotionally different than an additional attraction.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 8:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      glasshouses, if you are bored then calm down, get a grip and don’t worry about it.

      It may shock you, but gay men can and do engage in heterosexual behavior. Some do it their entire lives by marrying a woman, raising a family and never acting on their innate same-sex desires. This does not make them heterosexual.

      By that same token, Mike Manning can profess his sexual attraction to females and shtoop all the females he wants, it still does not make him bisexual.

      Lukas P., bit me. I would imagine anyone with whom you disagree is “trolling.” Grow up.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 8:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #3 using similar name]

      Herb,

      I think you’re confusing gay identity with innate orientation. They can be two different things. Gay identity is loaded with vanity, pride, notions of self-esteem etc etc. Innate orientation can exist independently of that. Innate orientation is something biological rather than identity-driven. Innate orientation exists independently of social stigma or social encouragement.

      In terms of human behavior, yes it is entirely possible that gay-identifying men marry women and raise children. However, in this scenario, the man’s identity is at odds with his behavior. His behavior has been fashioned by social factors and probably the desire to raise children. If the gay-identifying man is innately oriented to men only, he will need to fantasize about men during intercourse with the woman. If the gay-identifying man is innately oriented to both men and women, he can get it up with no real problem.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 8:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tip
      Tip

      Mike Manning can profess his sexual attraction to both males and females, and shtoop all the males he wants, it still does not make him homosexual. It’s his call, dammit. It’s not up to some know-it-all queen who hasn’t personally seen him sexor any females lately.

      Even if he never boinks another female for the rest of his life, maybe it’s because he’s physically attracted to both sexes but gets along beter with men… Personality compatability is an important part of couplehood. Females have been more available to him until now, but now he’s got more self-confidence and the support of his friends. Still bisexual, just focusing on what works best for him.

      Why is this thread still alive? How can so many people here have such a vested interest in what Mike’s penis does from here on? Let him be.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 8:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #3 using similar name]

      Tip,

      You make an important point about personal compatibility. It’s a point that’s often neglected when discussing human sexual attraction and the relationships we form.

      There are so many things that combine to form a sexual attraction and ongoing relationship. It isn’t just a penis or vagina. There’s personality, common interests, the ability to click when talking to each other. The notion of “soul mate” is important.

      I know of one man who is predominantly heterosexual in his orientation but who settled down with a man for about 10 years because they just got on like a house on fire. They clicked.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 10:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Jason, actually the difference betwixt gay identity and innate orientation was my point; whereas I believe Mike Manning’s professed identity as bi is a lie.

      In the scenario of the innately gay man marrying a woman and living the life of a heterosexual, he, like Mike Manning, would lie not only to other people, but also to himself, about his sexual identity. The gay man in this case would say, and want to believe, he is heterosexual.

      Jason, relative to other posters here, you seem rather level headed. What is your take on Tip referring to me as a “know-it-all queen?” I find it offensive and worthy of the kind of gender related put-down worthy of a homophobe.

      People would do well to realize that homophobia is an extension of sexism.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 11:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill
      Bill

      All of you are just going on and on about how the dude’s gay just because he went home with a guy…

      Look, I’m bi. I was married for 3 years. I genuinely loved her, I was sexually attracted to her, but we split. Happens. Anyway, when I go out to bars, I generally want to hook up with other guys (for a number of reasons), but that doesn’t mean I’ve magically become gay.

      I’m still bi. I’ll still be attracted to women, even if for the rest of my God-given life I bring home men, or settle down with one; I’ll still be attracted to women, and I’ll still be bi.

      It doesn’t matter who Mike took home at the end of the night. If he’s attracted to men and women, he’s bi.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 11:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      “How can so many people here have such a vested interest in what Mike’s penis does from here on? Let him be.”

      This is a very good point. I do not and contend that most people could not know the inner apparent machinations of Mike’s sexual orientation or his thought processes, bi or gay or straight or whatever that they may be. In truth, I have no idea what makes Mike Manning’s mind attracted or not attracted to men or women or flowering prickly pear cacti for that matter, nor am I aware of how Mike’s penis may or may not behave.

      I have a feeling that the only person who would really know the details of this matter would not be the members of this thread but would instead be Mike Manning himself, and, as such, I wish him, his identity, and his penis many years of happiness together.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 11:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dana
      Dana

      Herb, that study has been WAY discredited, even by most gay organizations. Do some research and stop with your bigotry.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 11:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #3 using similar name]

      Men put out more than women. Therefore, it’s easier for a bi guy to pick up a man than a woman. One of the thing that straight guys envy about gay and bi men is the ease with which they can pick up partners, albeit of the same gender.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 12:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Some here suggest we should ignore the obvious and take these cowards at their word. I suppose these same people believed Clay Aiken was heterosexual before he came out.

      Mike Manning will still be unconvincing as bi even if he were to jump up and down on Oprah’s sofa screaming about how much pussy turns him on.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 1:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      This Mike Manning issue reminds me of another reality show gay man, J.P. Calderon. It was revealing into the minds of some who are afraid to come out. J.P. did not note the usual reasons for hesitating to come out, e.g., family rejection, religion etc. I remember quite clearly he said he was afraid of being called “gay,” because he thought it would take away his masculinity.

      And, there you have it.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 1:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      Herb, I think you’ve more than proved how judgmental you are… you don’t have to keep proving it. You take one person’s words and use them to condescend to an entire group. You are an incredible example of exactly what the problem is. Everyone else who is reading this, take note of the superiority complex and over-simplification of sexuality Herb exhibits. This is exactly the discrimination that bisexuals fight against.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 1:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Oh, Doug E, you’re so non-judgmental and so complex it just makes my head spin. You poor picked on martyr, you. :)

      Get over yourself.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 1:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • glasshouses
      glasshouses

      Actually, Doug’s posts are some of the most complex on this topic by far.

      And he, unlike some, is not particularly fixated on locating Mr. Manning’s penis’ palace of pleasure.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 1:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ray
      Ray

      “People who are attracted to both men and women face specific challenges during the coming out process. Unfortunately, misinformation about bisexuality is widespread, and many bisexual people find that when they come out, they must also work to educate those around them about their sexual orientation.” -HRC

      I’m in the process of coming out to my friends and fam (in the midst of a religious up-bringing) as bisexual and for the past five years i’ve been trying to decide weather I only want men or only women and I discovered FOR ME, its not “black and white”. I identify with Mike in so many ways, i feel like we have the same story. Im not at all flamboyant or feminine. I like cock as much as I like tits. I like the softness and sensuality of a woman as much as I like the roughness, masculinity and strength of a man. I dont know who i’ll end up with, but I do know its just a bigger sea to chose from, love us or hate us, DEAL WITH IT!

      Jan 11, 2010 at 2:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      Originally, I felt that we could help Herb overcome his bigotry but unfortunately I’ve discovered he’s more difficult to get through to than an evangelical. I appreciate your comments, glasshouses.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 2:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Actually, Doug’s posts are as anecdotal as what he belittles and dismisses. Doug also ignores anecdotal posts from others as long as they agree with him. He offers nothing enlightening and, like some others on this thread, refuses to learn and is willfully ignorant.

      Can you say, “hypocrite?”

      Jan 11, 2010 at 2:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      Lol. Herb, if you weren’t an actual person influencing others, you’d be a lot funnier just as a caricature. I couldn’t have asked for a better person to exhibit exactly the type of judgmental attitude the gay community exudes toward bisexuals that the whole discussion was about. If you knew how much you were actually proving my point, you’d probably shut up.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 2:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      What am I “willfully ignorant” about? You mean how you are trying to tell me what I am and who I’m attracted to and I say “umm, no, that doesn’t match up with who I am at all” but you seem to think you know more about bisexuals than they do… what gives you the right?

      Jan 11, 2010 at 2:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Herb is not worth arguing with. He has opinions and an agenda but no logic, no data, no credentials. Ignore his attempts to bate you and he will disappear to a place where people have not yet tired of him. You will never convince him of anything, so do not waste your time, energy or minutes you could be having mindblowing sex, making soup, reading real news, contemplating your next vacation, or learning Portuguese.

      P.s. Floss between your teeth daily: ALL of them ;- }¤

      Jan 11, 2010 at 6:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      OK, here’s the deal. Unless I get really bored in the near future, this will be my last post on this thread. It’s already taken up too much of my time.

      We all have more important things to do. At the top of the list right now is Prop 8 being heard in the US Supreme Court. (A side note: The Sundance Film Festival is at the end of this month and an interesting documentary will be screened about the defeat of prop 8 in California, called “8: The Mormon Proposition.”

      Contrary to what poor picked-on phony bi’s think, the gay community welcomes you. Let this be a formal invitation to anyone who is pro-equality to join a just fight. No matter your religion, race, sex or claimed sexual orientation, we (those for equality for all) would not have advanced as far as we are today without each other.

      Now, for what I hope is my last comment on this thread; I’ll personalize it for y’all since many have you have done the same. When I came “out” I took it as a given that bisexuality existed. It wasn’t for several years that it dawned on me that bisexuality might not really exist. There was no agenda on my part, or the influence of others with an agenda, that caused me to come to the realization that bisexuality in men most likely does not exist. This concussion came from life experience.

      For those trying to convince me and those who agree with me otherwise, by behaving like and using the same tactics as rabid fundies, good luck, but the ad hominem attacks are a turn off and does not serve your purpose.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      OK, I must post again, because this is just too funny (and weird) to let go by.

      I decided to see what Mr. Credentials had to say about his own credentials. While I did not find Lukas P. posting his credentials, (I may have missed it) I did see him post a diatribe that basically agreed with what I have been saying. At least he seems to agree with me more than any of the steadfast pro bi’s who have been posting.

      “Newer peer- reviewed research seems to show that bisexuality may be less common in adult men than previously thought and more common in women {especially women ~>40} than we’d realized.
      Bottom line: men tend to gravitate toward the 0 or 6 ends of Kinsey’s scale– being “totally heterosexual” or “totally homosexual.” Once a man who has had sex with 1 or more women begins having sex with men, it is rare for him to have sex with women again. The % of male bisexuals seems to decline wth age.”

      “I know very few men I would term bisexual–men who would consider either an opposite sex or a same- sex partner, even if they prefer men or women.” — Lukas P.

      As for myself, I have come across only one man I thought might really be bi, but, since I have known so many men, I’m skeptical about the one seemingly bi man I knew. Skepticism is a good thing. It’s what separates us from the fundies.

      I would think even Lukas, who has demeaned me so much, would have to agree with me that not all the men who claim to be bi could possibly be bi.

      And why, pray tell, would the % of male bisexuals decline with age? WTF do you think this implies?

      I am as certain that Mike Manning is not bi as I was that Clay Aiken was not heterosexual.

      So, this makes me wonder what agenda Lukas P. has to be arguing with me, when we basically say the same thing about bisexuals. Is it Lukas wants to argue just for the sake of arguing?

      Anyway, I found this odd and funny.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 5:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mia
      Mia

      To Herb and all of you quoting that stupid 2005 study-that study has been disproven over and over again, and the researcher is actually doing new research now studying BRAINS, not penises-and guess what he’s found-bisexual male and female brains! Even he was surprised. This was an additional scene on the dvd for the documentary “Bi the Way”, it was an interview with J. Michael Bailey. He even admitted he was hasty with that original gay, straight, or lying study. He did another study that said “all women are bisexual”. So if you believe that study, do you believe all women are bi too? It’s bogus research. It’s time bigots like you stopped quoting crappy research and got with the program. Just b/c YOU have a problem doesn’t mean people are going to hide and say they are something they are not just to please YOU. And whatever “experience” you had (obviously with someone who turned out to not be really bi or left you for a woman) you need to get over it. It doesn’t give you the right to label an entire group of people. Ten bucks says you’ll be back here with your own ad hominems, b/c people like you ALWAYS have to have the last word.

      Jan 16, 2010 at 1:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • iphimedia
      iphimedia

      My goodness, Lukas, you certainly produce, like all bigots, an airtight case for your idiot prejudices. You’re right up there with those who proved that blacks were inferior to whites in intelligence, such as our President, that women would never be able to handle high finance or study law, and that Jews were parasites that cost Germany World War I. You’ve got it all down: unnamed “studies,” uncited “researchers,” personal anecdotes observed in such “‘clinical centers’” such as…your office. Yes, definitely a quality controlled, scientific environment. You’re not just a biphobic bigot arguing dumb stereotypes about bisexual people, but you’re a lazy one. There are some good, quality-sounding, lying studies out there by unscrupulous-but-impressive-sounding scientists that a google search would have found for you. They’ve all been debunked, but maybe you could have counted on fellow lazy bigots on here not to have known that. I mean, if you’re going to perpetuate ignorant stereotypes, take a leaf from the right wing conservatives, and do it with passion and conviction. Drum up some energy. You know: gay men are all pedophiles. They want to bring down the church. They hate God and Jesus. Quote some sources. Bare your fangs. Get some passion going. Otherwise you’re just kind of pathetic.

      Jan 18, 2010 at 2:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • iphimedia
      iphimedia

      Guess what, Jason? You’re a misogynist fuck. It’s a safe bet, given the site, you’re a gay man. I’ve observed lots of gay men just don’t like women much, seem to be disgusted by them, their bodies, the idea of them. Of course gay men NEVER use their bodies or hair or clothes to buy drugs or sex or anything else off men. Oh, no. Gay men are pure and upright in their dealings with each other, it’s all about respect and love and marriage.

      Jan 18, 2010 at 2:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • iphimedia
      iphimedia

      Regarding your attempt to add insight to this discussion, your personal observations don’t really add anything. You were sneaking around cheating on your wife. You were probably going to gay bars. Don’t you think that if you went to places where you were going to meet men for gay sex, and seeing how bi men are treated in this very discussion, they wouldn’t come out as bi very readily? Why would they confide in you, when you self-professed aim was to cheat on the woman with whom you stood up in public and vowed to honor, and who bore your children? People can detect sleaze even when they’re engaging in sleaze themselves.

      Jan 18, 2010 at 2:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MM
    • donnythepunk
      donnythepunk

      It’s been a year since I stopped reading articles of bisexuality, because they always seem to be plagued by biphobic parasites in the comment section, that claim they have the right to “express themselves” >.> but they really just hating and spreading ingorance and misfinformation around. I was sick and tired of reading these hateful comments and having to fight.

      I’ve been avoiding the whole lgbt community offline and online, hoping that maybe if i ingore it, it will go away. A year later,
      I realize how much worse it’s gotten. Along with biphobia, I seen increased hate towards transsexuals as well, by both the straight and gay community.

      Blah. I don’t care about none of this anymore. For those of you that have to fight for your rights and respect towards your own so-called “allies” from the biphobic LG community, I’m sorry you have to go through that. No one should. Just like gay people shouldn’t have to fight for gay marriage, it should have been legalized like a fucking long time ago. But no -_- homophobics try to make such a big deal out of it, just like biphobics are doing to bisexuals, and here we are, going nowhere.

      Jan 21, 2010 at 3:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      I dont want RR anymore…too fucking annoying. However I am here to weigh in on the bi or not front. What is that so many gays cant accept that someone could in fact be gay. They who want the world to accept them, are the first to openly trash anyone who doesnt fit in to what they believe. I am someone who identifies as bi, however lately I am only into men. But I am not going to denounce my attraction to women, or my past relationships with women. SO you homo’s who are haters, dont pick up another rainbow flag til you understand PRIDE stands for everyone, not just you.

      Jan 21, 2010 at 3:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      There is something so unconvincing about Mike Manning. If I were claiming to be bi, I certainly would not want him as my spokesperson. The aversion to labels is particularly troubling.

      I don’t get the “biphobia” claim. Just because people don’t believe you if you say you are bi does not mean they hate you or believe you should not have equal rights. It’s like when an obvious gay person, like Clay Aiken, says they are heterosexual and, well, you just don’t believe him.

      This thread has taught me something. I really, really, really hope I don’t come across to heterosexuals the same way that these pro-bi folks come across to me.

      This constant whining of “bigot” and name calling is a total turn off. And if I, or any other gay rights supporters, come across like irrational rabid wackos like many of these bi-supporters do, we are not going to educate nor get our message across.

      I started out in the gay community believing that bisexuality in men existed as a mater of fact — a given. I didn’t care. It didn’t bother me. I later changed my mind about bi men because of life experience and studies. Again. I didn’t really care. It’s just a fact. I could change my mind, yet, again, if I were presented with convincing evidence. Anecdotal protestations are not persuading — they remind me of gay guys insisting that they are heterosexual. But, this barrage of insane, belligerent, ad hominem attacks are especially unconvincing.

      Jan 21, 2010 at 11:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      Herb,

      Rest assured that as annoying the bi community is demanding equality, the straight fundies are just as annoyed by the gay community. And since you’re playing the part of the fundie in our discussion, you should feel a little more compassion for them, since you too are able to self-righteously make other people’s minds up for them and only read studies that support your point of view. You are what you hate.

      Jan 22, 2010 at 9:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      @Doug E: Your post makes zero sense. Perhaps you should fully read my posts if you are going to comment on them. It is really unbecoming to make a scarecrow argument by attributing things to me which I have not said — like Mia (and her alias’s) have done.

      Jan 23, 2010 at 2:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      lol, Herb. You never cease to amaze me with your lack of self-awareness.

      Jan 23, 2010 at 2:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      The gay people who act as obnoxious as some of the fake bi-supporters deserve the annoyance of fundies. That method does not work in educating and changing minds for equality.

      Jan 23, 2010 at 2:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Doug E, do we know each other outside of this one thread. You talk as if we do.

      Jan 23, 2010 at 2:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      Well Herb, nothing seems to work on you. Your cited study has been refuted (by it’s own AUTHOR!) and yet you still subscribe to it. You have a hypothesis and you do everything (including delusion) to make sure you end up believing you’re correct and don’t need to re-evaluate your assumptions.

      Jan 23, 2010 at 2:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      No, thank God, we do not know each other outside of this thread. You have exposed yourself and your style more that adequately in this thread alone.

      Jan 23, 2010 at 2:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Doug E, I have not cited the studies I refer to.

      Mia, like you, acted as if I did. She did so by comparing a study Lukas P cited to the study I assume you are referring to.
      However, even Lukas P was not referring to the study you and she were talking about. It is quite obvious; where Lukas P cited bisexuality in woman and how it increases over age 40, Mia referred to a study that said “all women are bisexual.” That is but one difference of many betwixt the study she (and you) were talking about and the one Lukas P was referring to. Clearly, they are not the same study.

      Incidentally, I had not heard of the study Lukas P was referring to. However, I think the study you and Mia were referring was one done several years ago by a person whom the gay community hated because of antigay comments, before he even did the bi study. A lot of gay and claimed bi people would not believe anything this guy said based on political, not scientific, reasons.

      Oh, and Lukas P claims the study he cited was peer reviewed.

      Jan 23, 2010 at 2:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug E
      Doug E

      All I believe is actually stuff you’ve already acknowledged. That there are varying levels of sexuality. I know gays who think anything with a woman is disgusting to them. Other guys who are turned on by both sexes. Other guys who are only turned on by only the opposite.

      So, there you have homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual. Now, the bisexual group cannot be easily separated into nice piles. Some may be more visually gay, but physically straight, or the opposite… and that person may end up (for a variety of various reasons) end up picking one or the other and settling with that as most comfortable. I doubt there are very many exact 50-50 bisexuals and most end up recognizing which side they lean more to, in your mind the fact that a 51% gay guy ends up settling on being with a guy that it means he’s “gay” is so unbelievably limited and myopic in your view that you discredit yourself entirely by that single belief.

      You quoted a guy who said that he felt being gay made him less masculine as though that one person’s perspective on sexuality was valid for everyone yet also reject any other person’s perspective that disagrees with your beliefs as being liars.

      You seem to think that because you don’t have anecdotal evidence of someone who is equally gay-straight all their lives that it means bisexuality doesn’t exist. Yet, you fail to recognize that your definition of bisexuality is very much different from those who actually label themselves as such. So, you misunderstand the idea then judge others based on your misunderstanding… you’re not the first to have such a knee-jerk reaction.

      However, as everyone in this thread has already stated (and you’ve conveniently ignored) is that bisexuality doesn’t mean 50-50!!!!! I could be attracted to both sexes and may even have a 60-40 leaning more toward women, in terms of physical attraction, but emotionally I’m more attracted to men… so I end up settling down with a man because that seems more attractive overall. To you, that guy is (and always was -but just lied to himself) “gay”.

      Sexuality is much more complicated than your reductionist attitude. In order to have such an attitude, where you’ve convinced yourself so vehemently and completely of your correctness and that “bi” is fake, that one who understands how the human psyche works, you had to have had a past where you’d labeled yourself as such… and later altered your opinion to be that you were “gay” and that therefore anyone who passed through the same “confusion” is also just lying to themselves about who they really are.

      Just because your experience is different from others doesn’t mean that they’re wrong, it just means that you’re different from other people… that seems like such an obvious statement but one that you haven’t recognized yet. Just because your experience ended up being interpreted one way doesn’t mean that all others who use the same word (**you** used it wrong, they didn’t!) are as misguided as you were. You have recognized you were misguided and have extrapolated that anyone who identified the same way you did must be wrong… but it was your labeling alone that was wrong, not that of others. But you continue to extrapolate your own experience onto others…

      It’s sad that I see what you doing to others is the exact same thing that you condemn of others doing to you. You are very mixed around. Let it all go… most importantly the “ego” that wants you to maintain your “right” interpretation of all these crazies.

      Peace brother,
      Paul

      Jan 23, 2010 at 2:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      @Doug E #184:

      You said I had a “knee-jerk” reaction to judge men as being bi or heterosexual. I must have said at least twice on this thread how I started off assuming that bisexual me were a given. To elaborate further, I believed most men were bisexual mainly because of that old Kinsey scale. It wasn’t until much later, and not overnight, that I changed my mind about that. There was hardly anything “knee-jerk” about the lengthy evolution to my conclusion.

      You said, “You quoted a guy who said that he felt being gay made him less masculine as though that one person’s perspective on sexuality was valid for everyone” That “guy” I quoted was another reality star, actually on two different reality shows, and I used him as an example because this thread is about a reality star and because he is a visible celebrity. “That one person” hardly stands alone. Many gay men are concerned about their masculinity being called into question if they are labeled gay.

      You say your physical attraction to women is greater than it is for men, but you are more emotionally attracted to men over women. Sexual orientation is about sexual attraction, period. Many heterosexual men have a greater emotional attachment towards other men than they do women. This is why they hang out together a lot. History shows that men usually prefer to hang with each other than with women. However, they have sex with women. Just because you have an emotional connection to one sex over the other does not mean you want to have sex with that sex.

      Men of any sexual orientation have an uncanny ability to make due when it comes to sex. This is why heterosexual men put in an environment lacking females can have sex with each other. This does NOT make them bi.

      Sexual orientation is about who one would prefer to have sex with. When it comes to men, they have a definite sexual preference of on sex over the other. Like it or not, there is peer reviewed consensus on studies showing this besides the one Lukas P cited. So, as much as you try to say I have my position based solely on my personal experience, you are quite incorrect.

      Also, many hyper-sexed, oversexed or sex addicted men will have sex with both sexes. This does not make them bi, either.

      Jan 23, 2010 at 10:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • twowayblkguy
      twowayblkguy

      @Same Crap:
      doesn’t he use gay and bi interchangeably?

      bitter gay men are so funny, the bisexuals are having fun hooking up wiht both and not caring what people think, and the gay guys are obsessed with labelling them.
      i know lesbians do this with bi chicks too… though strangely in this case a bigger deal is made about mike’s bisexuality then ashley’s lol

      Jan 26, 2010 at 3:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jamison
      jamison

      Any one know the kind of watch he is wearing in the Real World? It would really help me out. Thank you.

      Feb 2, 2010 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Maria
      Maria

      wow Herb, you really are a bitter old queen-back again after you said you’d leave. Why do you care about Mike’s sexuality so much? do you want to sleep with him? Bi’s exist whether you want us to or not, we’re coming out and being more and more accepted, and forming our own communities more as well. People like you are being known as “out with the old”, and biphobia and transphobia are not cool anymore. We’re not going to hide and lie about who we are just to make you feel good about yourself. If your gay identity is that fragile that you can’t take someone being bi, you truly are pathetic.

      Feb 10, 2010 at 10:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob Moore
      Rob Moore

      @JoshH: JoshH, I think I owe you an apology. When I read your response, it conveyed a sense of frustration and anger that I feel when my legitimacy as a gay man is questioned because I remain married. It is questions something I know to be true but I don’t do the acceptable gay things all the time. Since we are not able to read minds, we project onto others what we expect. I then turned around and said the same sort of things about bisexual men that have been said to me. I hope that you read this and accept the apology.

      Mar 2, 2010 at 7:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Maria
      Maria [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Hey Herb you moron, look at the behind the scenes MTV video, where they talk about Mike’s sleeping with the female roommates. those scenes was edited out for some reason..hmm, maybe you were doing the editing? Emily’s bringing home women was also left out, I wonder why. as for bi males existing, there are plenty of them, whether you like it or not, so get over it. I’m sorry that a bi guy obviously left you/turned you down, and you’re obviously a bitter old queen, but you know maybe he rejected you cause you’re an asshole. get a life dude, seriously-everyday you post on here after saying several times you’ll never post again. have you no life or anything better to do? LOL

      Mar 4, 2010 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      Hey, Maria, you douche bag. Take a look at the episodes of the Real World that they actually aired! Mike’s brother bit Mike’s roommates heads off when they called Mike gay, saying, “Mikes bi. He’s not gay.” You really don’t think Mike can read his family and how important a distinction like “gay” and “bi” are to them? Also, look at how obvious it was to everyone who saw, everyone except you, that when Mike went out clubbing with his brother, he made out with a female roommate — everyone, (again, except for you) saw this for the pathetic and desperate attempt that it was, to impress Mike’s brother. Several of the roommates even said as much.

      After Mike’s mother told him how proud she was of him and the work he was doing for the gay community, Mike’s guard came down and low and behold, he started acting less like a straight jock, which was an obvious act from the get go, and behaved more like a clichéd queer. Again, roommates even commented on this fact saying, “once Mike felt like he didn’t have to live up to acting like a non-stereotyped gay man, he really looked free and happy.” So, put that in your pipe and smoke it, bioch!

      It was revealed that Mike was not even out to many people he knew back home, so, Mike is hardly an out and proud queer, but instead, scared and coming out incrementally the same way many gay men have, by saying they are bi as a first step of coming out of the closet.

      BTW, I always think it’s hilarious how imbeciles like you create straw men arguments because you don’t have a leg to stand on. In your case, you just make stuff up. I have never been with a bisexual man romantically. I will be a friend to guys struggling to come out of the closet, but I won’t entangle myself intimately with such a confused individual as a man claiming to be bi.

      I will be in your and other liars faces telling the truth if you like it or not. I stand up to homophobes all the time and make the truth an annoying inconvenience for them. Small fry lying ageist bigots like you are comparatively a treat to tackle.

      Mar 6, 2010 at 12:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Herb
      Herb

      OMG! Maria, you’re so stupid. LOL

      I just checked out to see what the hell you were talking about Mike sleeping with a female roommate. The roommate in question is Ashley. But, Ashley is the one who says she doesn’t believe Mike is bi. She says he’s gay.

      So, Mike screws Ashley. She sees what a phony he is in is love making, then tells the truth and says he’s gay. LOL

      Mar 6, 2010 at 5:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Tyler: Photos??? Please share. Mike’s a whore, plain and simple. I’m guessing he’s the top though. Why did Mike and Tanner break up?

      Mar 6, 2010 at 7:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PLEASE READ!!!
      PLEASE READ!!!

      Wow… for all the people on here that say that a guy can’t be bisexual but a girl can.. sit back and think of how fucked up that sounds… no! its the media that has always been saturated with sexy women so other girls see those images and its a turn on.. now the media is focusing on the sexiness of guys as well and saturating almost every prime-time show with gay couples.. almost every commercial break has a guy with his shirt off so now more and more guys are associating ‘sexiness’ with men too.. if a girl can think both a set of tits AND a dick is attractive then dammit a guy can too!!! I just want to say that you don’t know how people work and it makes me sick that you will stand up for a gay guy but will get pissed if a guy says he’s bi! Its just sad that girls can nonchalantly explore their sexuality, but as soon as a guy does, he’s automatically gay.. your feeding into the stereo types and your keeping more BI guys in the closet because now they think they will never be seen as a sex partner for women.. I’m honestly starting to think that most girls are just selfish bitches and they think they can be attracted to ANYONE but if a guy wants to do that its out of the question.. hop off your pedestal, its the 21st century people!

      Mar 10, 2010 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #4 using similar name]

      Like female sexuality in general, female bisexuality is often fake. It’s fake in that it is part of how women market themselves to society and men in general for purposes that are unrelated to sexual satsifaction. Think material possessions, credit cards, free drinks….

      Women have a lot to answer for. Their sexuality borders on prostitution.

      Mar 10, 2010 at 8:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jamescameron3
      jamescameron3

      I’m not sure why this is bothering me but I’ve been having all these dreams about my fiance having one night stands being with multiple partners before me. I have no clue about his sexual history, is this something I should have asked? If I ask him about it, could it help me get over whatever is bothering me or will it make it worse?

      Alpine White Teeth Whitening
      http://www.articlesbase.com/dental-care-articles/alpine-white-teeth-whitening-review-amp-free-trial-2212431.html

      May 9, 2010 at 5:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JoshH
      JoshH

      @Rob Moore:
      Many months later, I happened to see this article (having forgotten that I’d written any comments) and read your first comment and then your second one. I definitely appreciated your later comment and apology by the time I got to the bottom of these comments (particularly after reading the pissing contest that took place over the months following my post).

      People are attracted to whoever they find attractive and they love whoever they love. Letting a label get in the way of either denies the humanity of other people. I also appreciated the comments of glasshouses, particularly given the fact that I rest with absolute peaceful certainty in my sexual orientation due to my spiritual life as a Quaker.

      Aug 31, 2010 at 11:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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