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The Gay “Man Who Can’t Catch AIDS” Commited Suicide Out Of Survivor’s Guilt

stephen_crohn


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By:           Les Fabian Brathwaite
On:           Sep 16, 2013
Tagged: , , ,
  • 69 Comments
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      This selfish man will likely incinerate what’s left of his body, further denying scientists an opportunity to learn.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 3:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • barkomatic
      barkomatic

      @1EqualityUSA: Why is he selfish? The Delta 32 immunity is now well documented and has been found in other people–so its not as if he was the last hope.

      It’s really sad to hear this and I wish he could have gotten some help. It must been awful to have seen his partner and so many of his friends die. That, and being 66 in the NYC gay world is hard as it is.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 3:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • miagoodguy
      miagoodguy

      Suicide is one of the most cowardly and selfish acts someone can do.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 3:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MikeE
      MikeE

      @1EqualityUSA: @miagoodguy: Such awesome displays of compassion. you guys disgust me.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BJ McFrisky
      BJ McFrisky

      This guy waits four decades to commit suicide out of guilt?
      Hmmm . . . sounds unlikely.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 4:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • barkomatic
      barkomatic

      @miagoodguy: Depressed people sometimes kill themselves–because their illness makes them unable to see the consequences of their suicide. You’re not going to help anyone by calling them selfish and cowardly–since you don’t know anything about their experiences. This guy sounds like he went through a lot. When a plague kills most of your friends and your partner why don’t you come back here and talk big again.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 4:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EManhattan
      EManhattan

      There is no mention in any of the stories about his death that he decided to end his life because of survivors guilt. The episodes of survivor’s guilt that his sister mentioned happened decades ago, and were what motivated him to participate in the medical studies. Queerty took her quote out of context.

      The headline was pure speculation by Queerty.

      Everyone has the right to decide to die in their own time. We don’t know what went into his decision, but I hope he was at peace at the end, and died quickly.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 4:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kenover
      Kenover

      How can you people be so cruel and nasty? This man lived with a very heavy burden and helped fight AIDS in every way he could. Instead of judging him, you should be thankful for his generosity and commitment. What have you done to advance the fight against AIDS?

      Sep 16, 2013 at 4:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jay
      Jay

      I am one of the only people I know, or knew, in the ’80s who’s still around. I never got AIDS, though I did everything you needed to, and did it often enough that I should have been among the first to go. But I’ve never been positive. I suppose I have some measure of survivor guilt, but often I’m so depressed, I’m more jealous that everyone got to leave before me. Let them have departer’s guilt.

      I wonder if I have this delta 32 thing.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 4:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EManhattan
      EManhattan

      @miagoodguy: No, suicide is not cowardly and selfish. That is your own seriously ignorant opinion trying to present itself as fact. Sorry, there’s no evidence for it.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 4:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian
      Brian

      There are lots of people who don’t progress to AIDS despite having HIV. Stephen wasn’t special. Overall, I think suicide is an act of cowardice.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EManhattan
      EManhattan

      @Brian: You didn’t read the article, apparently, since your comment missed the way in which Stephen WAS special. And with that kind of sloppy thinking, of course you’d have an equally ignorant opinion of suicide.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MSMiller
      MSMiller

      I really do wish we would retire the quack diagnosis of “survivors’ guilt.” I lost several friends early in the AIDS epidemic and have friends who lost many many more. The feelings that result from having lived while a third or more of your first gay friends died are complex and irreducible to mere guilt over having survived while so many others didn’t. It makes for a pithy headline and a dramatic narrative, but it’s pop psychology at best.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doughosier
      Doughosier

      It was his life, he could do what he wanted. It’s hard to be old and gay, especially when so many of his old friends have died. What’s the point of waiting around for death,falling apart year by year?

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pauleky
      pauleky

      I really despair of humanity when I read many of the comments on Queerty. Compassion and empathy seem hard to come by these days…

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EvonCook
      EvonCook

      Amazing how small, inconsiderate, even stupid the community is on display here. It is embarrassing that people can’t read, or can’t distinguish or remember what is being said, what the facts are. Everyone is so ready to speak their usually quite weak, often mean spirited thoughts and mindless comments, or make up reasons for this or that to substantiate their inane biases, or even to deny what is factually given. I used to think gays were more careful, smarter, sensitive and sympathetic than stupid, simple straight people, but you sure wouldn’t know it from the most frequent commenters on here! Makes me value my friends more than I even used to.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JoeFranko
      JoeFranko

      Those of us who lived through the AIDS crisis years probably have more compassion for this man because we know what it was like. I remember going through a friend’s address book. He was dying of AIDS. We were planning his funeral together. Every page had 10 names on it and of those 10 8 or 9 were already dead. It was like the black plague in Europe.

      I don’t know about others, but I came of of those years being less judgmental and more compassionate than I might have been had I not seen so many die, many at the end of their life by their own hand. Recently (July) my husband died from the complications caused by AIDS. He was a warrior, strong with a strong body that fought off almost 5 fatal diseases in the course of the last 20 years. He was amazingly honest with me about his illnesses when we got together. For him, suicide was not an option. He was a fighter, yet he was filled with compassion for those who clearly had enough.

      Who can judge, who has not lived through such times. Judgementalism is a disease of the young and the ignorant. The longer I have lived, the more compassion I have. In the end the only thing we take with us is the love that has made us compassionate.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tez Anderson
      Tez Anderson

      Mr. Crohn’s death is heartbreaking. Because my generation of HIV-positive men lived through unimaginable horror and many of us are wounded AIDS warriors I started LetsKickASS.org ASS stands for AIDS Survivor Syndrome. It is a thing. It includes survivor guilt and PTS (post traumatic stress) and other symptoms common to survivors. That is why on we are doing this. I’m moderating. It is free and will be videotaped. Compassion is the only response and I do not expect (nor care) if those who didn’t live through it understand it. We are shattering those myths about it being hard to be gay and old. Mr. Crohn was not a coward he was bullied by his experience. If you want to know more read my site or attend our town hall or watch the video when it is available. Until then I’m kicking ASS.

      DEFINITION OF BRAVE: A TOWN HALL FOR AND ABOUT THOSE OF US WHO ARE LONG TERM SURVIVORS OF HIV EPIDEMIC BOTH HIV-POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE

      September 18, 2013 7:00 pm at the SF LBGT Center
      1800 Market Street

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tez Anderson
      Tez Anderson

      @JoeFranko: Well said bro.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Teleny
      Teleny

      I see the Republican haters have new accounts. So pathetic.

      I am amazed by the survivors of the Epidemic of the 80s. Sorry I didn’t get to meet those taken too early. Mr. Crohn was a hero.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian
      Brian

      AIDS is largely self-inflicted. It’s the product of a highly promiscuous culture of ‘stranger sex’ within the male-male social scene. It’s a peculiar form of promiscuity. Combine this with amyl and crystal meth usage and you have a perfect storm for self-destruction.

      I have to say that gay men tend to be impulsive and careless because their lives are built on the here-and-now rather than an overall sense of family and continuing the blood line.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hillers
      Hillers

      There’s a very sound quote about suicide: “Suicide is not chosen; it happens
      when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.”

      If you can make it to 66 with half or more of your friends having died painfully, including your lover, maybe you might have some basis for passing judgement on someone like Stephen Crohn, though you’d still be an ass to do so. Calling someone who made such a substantial contribution to AIDS research a coward for committing suicide after he’d lived through a world of shit is viciously inhumane.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • delg
      delg

      I haven’t commented on these stories before, but I have to say that those uncompassionate, insensitive comments above are disgusting to read. We don’t know the reason behind his suicide, and some of you are jumping to conclusions of your own and speculating, and making ignorant agist comments. There are so many judgemental people within our own community, it astounds me. And, This was not a selfish man. He contributed to many studies – “What he contributed to medical knowledge is really quite extraordinary,” said Dr. Bruce D. Walker, the director of the Ragon Institute of Massachusetts General Hospital, M.I.T. and Harvard.

      We, as the public, never know why someone commits suicide when we hear these stories, and I deeply feel for anyone who feels that there is no other recourse — of any age.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 5:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • technicolornina
      technicolornina

      Y’know, I don’t comment on Queerty much anymore, and the number of catty, self-entitled bitchy asshole queens on this article is precisely why. You should all go to your mothers and apologize for being such poor examples. My five-year-old niece has better manners and more compassion than half of you, and she’s only in kindergarten.

      This lesbian has never known a world without AIDS and grew up in a town so conservative that in 2006 the middle school and high school health teachers were still telling kids it was possible to catch AIDS from French kissing an HIV-positive person (even if neither of you had cold sores or cuts), sharing a cup or towel, or sleeping in the same bed. I’ve also heard stories from my mother, who was a medical professional at the beginning of the AIDS pandemic, and all I have to say is this:

      I’m sorry, Mr. Crohn, and I hope you’re peaceful wherever you are.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 6:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian
      Brian

      The sad fact is that the gay community enjoyed AIDS and the attention it brought to them. Promiscuous gay men are narcissists and attention wh-ores. Like the spotlight fading on Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard, it’s better to go down while people are watching you.

      Gay men enjoy watching gay men act like victims. It gives them cues as to how to sell themselves as victims.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 6:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jay
      Jay

      Are we allowed to say “fuck” on Queerty? Brian, you are one sick fuck.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 6:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • myklet
      myklet

      Have you ever known someone that committed suicide? The pain of life is to great to bare for some. It actually takes a lot of balls. It does leave loved ones to say……..what could I have done. The answer is…..nothing. A bully is more of a coward than one who takes their own life.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 6:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Paul F
      Paul F

      I’m sorry that he felt the need to end his life. I just wish that I had his version of Crohn’s disease instead of the other Crohn that named my health problems. It would have been a lot nicer to have a “get out of sickness free” gene coding than a life time of sickness the other Crohn is famous for. If I weren’t such a wus, I might have taken his way out too when the pain was so bad when my insides were being eaten away. However, if I saw all my friends dropping dead around me back then, maybe I would have taken that route too. I don’t know, and I’m glad that I didn’t have the experience of friends dying that many of my age group did. I just pity his sisters having to deal with his death. It can’t be easy on them just as it wasn’t easy on him surviving all his friends deaths. R.I.P. Mr. crohn.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 6:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Paul F, Have you tried Remicade (Infliximab)? TNF inhibitor? It’s effective and given every 6 to 8 weeks I.V. after the loading dose phase.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 6:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayGay1
      JayGay1

      @1EqualityUSA: What a mean person you are. I feel sorry for your family and if you have any friends those too.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 7:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LadyL
      LadyL

      This is a tough one. I feel such sadness for him but I won’t pretend I don’t understand the anger some have expressed here. It is very hard losing a loved one to suicide, left behind to live with the tangled emotions of shock, grief, impotent fury, and betrayal. You also feel enormous guilt and sadness, wondering for years what you might have done to prevent the death. Above all, you miss them terribly.
      Rest in peace, Mr. Crohn.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 7:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jerry12
      Jerry12

      @1EqualityUSA: What a hateful comment. The man lived for years seeing friends die because they did things he could do with impunity.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 7:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • streeteditions
      streeteditions

      As another of those with the D32 mutation, I grieve for this man as I do for the two lovers I lost to AIDS and the countless friends whose funerals I attended. That AIDS continues to infect and kill people is a crime against humanity and that people would think otherwise or think that anyone who dies of grief from this experience is also criminal in their psychological thinkig.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 7:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alan down in Florida
      Alan down in Florida

      Suicide is not an act of cowardice. It takes more guts than you can ever imagine. I am 60, clinically depressed and alone – none of which you would know by looking at me. No one knows another person’s private hell so don’t ever presume to call someone a coward. I wish almost daily that I had the guts to end it since my genetic heritage says I’m gonna live this misery for another 30 years. To me doing that is the act of cowardice.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 7:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @1EqualityUSA: Are you just homophobic or are you merely stupid. How can this man, who committed suicide from “survivor guilt”, “incinerate what’s left of his body”? Do you even read what you have written?

      Sep 16, 2013 at 8:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @miagoodguy: Talk about a generalized statement. Where are you getting that from – the bible? Try walking a mile (at least) in the shoes of numerous persons who have committed suicide for a whole variety of reasons before you presume to judge them. You’re pathetic with no sense of compassion or empathy whatsoever.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 8:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @Brian: Overall, I don’t think you actually think – about what you write.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 8:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      I apologize for my comment at the top. The lost potential clouded my view. After having taken a much needed nap and having read your comments, I realize how gross my sentence was. I apologize to Mr. Crohn.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 9:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Jenkins
      Mark Jenkins

      I’ve been HIV poz since 1996, and for the most part healthy-mostly undetectable, and have buried my soulmate of 14 yrs. in 1999-and most of the people I grew up with and spent my early years as a gay man with are gone. I sometimes feel guilty that I’ve survived a plague, when most of my friends and partners have not. But there must be a reason- whether it’s to educate others to the dangers of unsafe sex or just to remind the younger guys how great life was before we realized the consequences, I don’t know. I just know I’ve got to continue to live my life to the fullest and take advantage of every opportunity, because you never know how fast it might change. In the early 80’s I knew several people who couldn’t cope, once diagnosed, and took their own lives, or partied themselves to death in other ways. When it first became known to us, many guys believed it was a scare tactic by the government- until everyone around us started dropping dead. Those of you who have come to maturity, or a semblance of it(considering some of the comments above)since the meds that let the survivors lead somewhat normal lives, have no idea what it was like- so you can’t really be a good judge of anyone else’s reasoning who lived through it.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 9:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gregg
      Gregg

      Any suicide is an irreparable loss for the inividual and those close to him/her, and untimately a defeat for humanity. Let’s not beat up on this poor soul. Rather, if we are so inclined, say a prayer; if not, enjoy a sunset. And either way, consider the great good Mr. Crohn accomplished in his lifetime!

      Sep 16, 2013 at 9:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LadyL
      LadyL

      @Alan down in Florida: Alan, I feel for you, truly. Depression runs in my family, and I have been coping with this debilitating disease since childhood.
      I completely agree that no one can really know what demons we may be struggling with. But, respectfully, I can’t agree with you that suicide takes guts. In my experience suicide is an act of desperation and despair, not courage. It’s a final giving up, on yourself and on life. I suppose there are exceptions, like the souls trapped in the WTC Towers on 9/11 who jumped, deciding if their lives were going to end that day it would damn well be by their method and not some terrorist’s.
      It’s your decision of course whether to end your life or not, Alan. Given the disease you’re battling, no one has the right to judge you. But to me your continuing to get up, and struggle to meet another day, is in itself an act not of cowardice but extraordinary courage.
      I hope you can take some comfort in that thought, my friend. Peace.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 9:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LadyL
      LadyL

      @1EqualityUSA: Thanks for coming back to offer your apology and your second thoughts. I’m sure it wasn’t easy in the face of all the angry criticism, but it was graceful–and appreciated.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 9:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr-DJ
      Mr-DJ

      BRIAN is apparently one of those people who still thinks that HIV is a Gay Disease. Well. Sparky it started in your breeder community, has always been, and remains as that majority in the World. It may be a majority of Gay males in SOME ‘countries’, but HIV know no boundaries, this is a HUMAN race concern, and afflicts more Straights than Gays in the World. So Brian can have his opinions, but he’ll need to change the word GAYS to STRAIGHTS throughout his comments.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 9:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @Doughosier: Everything you say applies equally to older straight persons. They lose their friends and family too and they suffer the same age-related loses of body @pauleky: Don’t despair. Most of those kinds of comments are from homophobic trolls directed to come and troll here by others like them including Fox News supporters. Ignore them, there are far more positive gay/lesbians and their supporters here. This is our site. Call them out for their bigotry if you like, but don’t give them too much attention. As trolls, they enjoy getting people upset. The old expression “don’t feed the trolls” is very good advice, unless they’re posing as “reasonably people” and spreading disinformation and lies. Then by all means call them out and refute them, but don’t get engaged in an extended debate with them – that’s what they live for. “Don’t feed the trolls, it just makes them feel like they’re important.” Take pride in your troll busting abilities, but use them sparingly.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 9:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @EvonCook: Don’t attribute all of the insensitivity and stupidity shown here to “the community”. Most of it comes from trolls, posing as gay or lesbian, or “reasonable people”. There are plenty of informed and empathetic people here to communicate with. Don’t feed the trolls, but do call them out if they are posing as gay/lesbian/reasonable people – but saying bigoted, hateful, non-compassionate or non-empathetic things. Call them out, then ignore them – they hate that. “Don’t feed the trolls, it only makes them thing they are important.”

      Sep 16, 2013 at 9:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @JoeFranko: All I can say JoeFranko, is Bravo for stating it so clearly and compassionately. Thank you.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 10:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr-DJ
      Mr-DJ

      Now where’s my big ole can of “Troll-B-Gone”?

      Sep 16, 2013 at 10:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @Brian: Troll alert! Do not feed these disgusting bigots. Go away tea bagger!

      Sep 16, 2013 at 10:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @technicolornina: If you are offended by the lack of empathy and compassion in someone’s comment, chances are they are a troll – not even gay or lesbian, so don’t attribute these unfeeling and hateful comments to our community. They are right-wing tea-baggers (their term – due to their stupidity)trolls, posing as gay/lesbians (or “sympathetic” supporters). Don’t be taken in.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 10:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @Jay: Bravo Jay for calling these sick homophobes what they are, hateful trolls!

      Sep 16, 2013 at 10:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @LadyL: The “anger expressed here” is not that of survivors of people who have suicided. It is the homophobia and ugly hate of trolls (sometimes posing as gay or lesbian persons). Don’t be taken in. They get an ugly personal kick and sense of power by doing this. Don’t give them energy.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 10:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @LadyL: I agree. You have distinguished yourself from the hateful trolls here.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 10:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lcocci
      Lcocci

      @Joe Franklin and Red Andersen, thank you for your view and experience ,great posts. Many posts that are quick to judge imo have never fed ice chips to friends, family let alone strangers ,its only fear talking.

      Sep 16, 2013 at 10:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • technicolornina
      technicolornina

      @dbmyers: I know Mia and Equality are trolls, and honestly I laugh at their sad asses because who has so little of a life that the best they can do for jollies is troll a message board for a tiny subcommunity (if Kinsey’s 10% number is correct, how many of those 10% do you suppose read Queerty and what further, smaller subset do you suppose reads the comments? It’s like standing in an empty arena yelling obscenities–hilarious in its pointlessness).? But I see other commenters here from whom I’d have expected better, and that’s getting to be the case on almost every article. It’s sad. Someone could post an article about how a Hollywood producer came out, announced that he plans to use his industry clout to start producing mainstream films with gay leads and humanizing, ordinary storylines (dunno about anybody else, but I’d give my left tit for a superhero movie where the superhero happens to be gay), and the comments would be full of “lol sad old queen we’ve known he was gay for years he’s just trying to stay in the spotlight.”

      Sep 16, 2013 at 10:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Kenover: Thank you a thousand times over, Kenover!!! People, fer cryin’ out loud, praise this man for ALL he DID for humanity, and not downgrade him because of his own inward torture. Have some grace and mercy, folks!

      Sep 16, 2013 at 11:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      How relevant is a man’s end ?

      Isn’t it what he contributed to medical research that’ll be remembered ?

      ” The research based on Crohn led to several breakthroughs in the fight against HIV…”

      Sep 17, 2013 at 5:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kenny1948
      Kenny1948

      @Alan down in Florida: Alan, you need to find some friends! I don’t know you situation, but I am five years older than you and also live here in Florida.
      I know it’s rough, when the only other gay people you see are much younger, and couldn’t give a fig about you. I am in a similar situation. I do look for friends outside of the “gay world” and have found some really good ones. I suggest you do the same. Too many gay men just live for the moment, and simply are too selfish to care about anyone else. The old saying, “I wish I knew then, what I know now” is so very true. When I start feeling low, I think about the good times I had when I was younger and realize that I have led a full life. I rarely think about suicide, but if I were ever to get to the point where I was either too feeble or unable to do the things I enjoy, I wouldn’t rule it out. At sixty you still have time to make something of your life. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, and get on with it!

      Sep 17, 2013 at 10:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kenny1948
      Kenny1948

      Once again, I read the comments here and think how shallow so many of you are! This man, went through hell. I know, I have been in his shoes. I saw many many of my friends and acquaintances die of AIDS while I have remained negative to the ripe age of 65! I guess I am like Mr Crohn, in that I have no excuse for not catching HIV. My partners had it, my friends had it, and most of my sexual contacts had it. I guess I am one of the lucky few.

      In the first years of the pandemic, I was a volunteer with the Chicken Soup Brigade in Seattle. I both cared for, and aided others who were unable to either care for themselves or had nobody to help them. After six years of volunteer work, I finally burned out as my own friends became ill. I also suffered from guilt, when everyone around me was dying, and I was still healthy. The young people today, have no idea how awful it was! Likewise so many of these young gay men, think they are invincible. It’s sad to see how ignorant so many of us still are, and how inconsiderate of others. I can remember many years back, when I knew someone who always made fun of the older gay men. I told him, “someday that’s gonna be you!” I would say the same to many of the posters here on Queerty. You will be surprised how fast time will go by. I suggest you learn some compassion for others, because you never know when you will be in the market for some yourself!

      Sep 17, 2013 at 10:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      technicolornina, Aside for the stupid sentence written above, for which I had apologized, I defy you to find one piece of writing that has me falling into the category you so flippantly and all-knowingly lumped me in your post #54. I’ve been writing since 2008. Give me an example.

      Sep 18, 2013 at 4:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @Gregg: 40

      One of the best comments here —

      ” Any suicide is an irreparable loss for the individual and those close to him/her, and ultimately a defeat for humanity. ”

      ” …consider the great good Mr. Crohn accomplished in his lifetime! “

      Sep 18, 2013 at 4:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the other Greg
      the other Greg

      I wonder how many of the commenters who think (adult) suicide is “cowardly” would say the same thing about gay teenage victims of bullying who commit suicide.

      How is suicide ever “cowardly,” anyway? Ah, the “logic” of some Queerty posters. The next time YOU jump off a bridge, or slit your wrists, or shoot yourself, or even overdose intentionally, do let us know how cowardly you felt doing that.

      Although I haven’t seen a news report that tells what method Mr. Crohn used, no doubt it required a certain amount of bravery that some of you would be unable to imagine.

      Sep 18, 2013 at 8:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • technicolornina
      technicolornina

      @1EqualityUSA: Let’s put it this way, Equality, since I can’t actually access your profile to go through your old comments like I can on HuffPo: When I saw your name, I wasn’t surprised. Your reputation precedes you. I’ve seen you before in the same context as miagoodguy, if slightly more subtle.

      And frankly, vilifying a man for killing himself after years of emotional anguish is so disgusting, you shouldn’t need further examples. You know how people on here are always saying “yeah, yeah, show me you’re actually sorry, dumbass” when yet another Exodus International exec says they were wrong?

      Your apology is, likewise, not accepted, because the thinking behind your post is so clearly not just off-the-cuff and spur of the moment. Taking a nap doesn’t change that you immediately jumped to the view of “how disgusting and selfish, he couldn’t deal with the emotional toll anymore!” It takes an actual worldview to come up with something that ignorant.

      Sep 18, 2013 at 3:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      technicolornina, I had no business commenting on something of which I have so little understanding. I abhor suicide and don’t understand it. It is your prerogative not to forgive me.

      Sep 20, 2013 at 7:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @1EqualityUSA: 63

      You “are” forgiven by those capable of forgiving.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness

      Sep 21, 2013 at 7:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Billysees, Thank you for the link. It was neat. Sometimes in our fight for equality, the darker sides can come out. It made me think of my own difficulty with forgiveness towards Exodus man, Fischer, Gallagher, Robert P. George, Nancy Elliott, and on and on. There have been two times when I felt I had heinously crossed the line. One was with Mr. Crohn and the other was a joke about an altar boy that bothered me immensely. I had stopped writing for a long time. (Rightfully so.) I must also apologize for putting anyone into the position of not being able to forgive. My words have caused another to stumble. This weighs on me too. As I had said before, in the case of a flip joke about altar boys, “After having showered, I feel as though I must apologize to anyone offended by my crude comment above. It demeans children and those of faith, undeserving of such a foul comment. I’m not proud of it. When my mind goes there, it usually has frustration as it’s root. I write well when I’m drawn by God. When I’m polite, I’m drawn by my parents. When I’m cruel, especially with words so valuable, that’s usually my mind at work. I’m not proud of it. It’s an abuse. It’s heinous. Embarrassment. I apologize for my mind this morning, my spirit. It wasn’t Fruit of the Spirit. It’s time to take a break from speaking out and work on my issues. I think I’m too angry. Anger can scrape the soul. It reflected in my post, above. We have a valid argument made no more valid by resorting to bad behavior. Our words can hurt our reputations, worse than the words of others. I proved this today.
      Mar 3, 2010 at 3:20 pm

      Billysees, I think it’s time for me to take another break from writing. Technicolornina, thanks for slamming me. I needed it.

      Full story here: http://www.queerty.com/tiny-condoms-for-tiny-12-year-old-penises-20100303/#ixzz2fXl5STLm

      Sep 21, 2013 at 12:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @1EqualityUSA: 65

      NO…..1EqualityUSA……it’s “NOT” time for you to take another break from writing.
      .

      Of course the darker side of our thoughts can somehow wiggle themselves onto the surface of our speech or typing. Happens once in a while. It’s because inside us is a certain frustration because we can’t understand and are baffled why some people can so easily cast towards us such hateful words when “WE KNOW” we don’t deserve it. This internal frustration can somehow wind up expressing itself in situations not related, like this article about Mr. Crohn.
      .

      Here’s a much better and more basic reason —

      The tongue[typing] is a fire, a world of evil. Placed among the parts of our bodies, the

      tongue[typing] contaminates the whole body and sets on fire the course of life, and is

      itself set on fire by hell. For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and

      creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race. But “no one” can tame

      the tongue[typing]; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. With it we bless our

      Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; from

      the same mouth[finger tips] come both blessing and cursing……James 3:6-10
      .

      You get the point I’m sure.

      Look, just chalk up this experience as a “senior moment” to put it more lighthearted terms.

      Cheer…

      Sep 22, 2013 at 9:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Thanks Billysees. Thank you Lady L, also, for your grace, compassion, and patience. When I write words such as the ones above, it’s time to bow out. Healing is slow. I’m a painter. It’s time to paint. Bye to all of you, Queertiers. Take care.

      Sep 22, 2013 at 8:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billysees
      Billysees

      @1EqualityUSA: 67

      If you must bow out, then go and paint a good painting, post it online somewhere so we can all admire it…..and then….

      ….return here….for your comments are necessary to keep the flow going.

      Sep 23, 2013 at 7:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • denx5
      denx5

      I think the survivors of suicides are the selfish ones.
      Whining … Why oh why did you kill yourself and make ME so unhappy.
      Why oh why didnt you think about ME.
      Why oh why didnt you tell ME that you were sad…
      just cuz I was too busy in MY life to take a moment to think of you.

      Now you are gone and cant listen ME whine. You are so selfish to deprive ME of someone to come home to and hear MY silly ass problems.

      You selfish asshole… not thinking of ME.

      Oct 30, 2013 at 10:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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