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The Gay Rights Ad Salt Lake Woke Up To This Morning

Salt Lake Tribune readers who opened their newspapers today got a message straight from the gay community. Truth Wins Out, responding to ad that ran Friday in the New York Times headlined, “No Mob Violence” that accused the LGBT protesters of attacking religious communities unfairly, ran its own full page ad in the city most closely associated with the Mormon Church.

The ad, titled “Lies in the Name of the Lord”, includes defamatory remarks made by Christian leaders James Dobson, Chuck Colson and Rick Cizik. Most of the remarks are made against Mormons and the ad concludes saying, “It appears the only thing these men have in common with the Mormon Church is an uncommon zeal for promoting anti-gay legislation.”

View the full-size ad after the jump.

By:           Japhy Grant
On:           Dec 11, 2008
Tagged: , ,
  • 55 Comments
    • Nick
      Nick

      Wow…ballsy. I like it.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 1:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kid A
      Kid A

      I don’t think pitting religious groups against one another is going to further our cause.

      Sure, hypocrisy should be pointed out, but this seems less about gays than rival factions. Am I reading this wrongly?

      Dec 11, 2008 at 1:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dawster
      Dawster

      @Kid A:

      no… it’s not going to further OUR cause specifically… but maybe humanity’s cause as a whole.

      plus… it’s fucking hilarious to watch.

      love the ad, love everything about it!

      Dec 11, 2008 at 1:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • walt zipprian
      walt zipprian

      I think pitting religous groups against each other is a great idea.

      I also think feeding them to lions is a great idea.

      Seriously. Lions.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 2:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Kid A Said “No. 2 · Kid A
      I don’t think pitting religious groups against one another is going to further our cause.”

      ________________________________________________

      can you come off of Kum Ba Ya mountain for a minute and look at this realistically? Of course it helps our cause. It is the same thing as telling somebody in a day care center…”Hey, just thought you’d like to know that the person you hired as a teacher is the same guy who mugged your sister a year ago”

      You are letting the rank and file Mormons know just who their church is working with, people who hate them. the average Mormon on the street is not going to like that their curch is cozing up to people who have called them a cult and non-christians. This is exactly what they need to have pointed out to them. you can’t expect them to make the right decision if they don’t have all the facts.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 2:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • osocubano
      osocubano

      I’d rather throw religious groups in a bottomless pit.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 2:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      I love this was shoved right in the belly of the beast in Utah.
      BRAVO!

      Dec 11, 2008 at 2:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kid A
      Kid A

      @Cam: You didn’t point out how that helps our cause as much as create conflict between groups. This seems like a roundabout way to get what we deserve. I’m not calling for “Kum Bay Ya,” and I’m with Oscocubano and Walt, but I was disappointed to read the limpness of the ad. There are so many more hard-hitting points we could make FOR ourselves.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 3:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kid A
      Kid A

      @Cam: “This is exactly what they need to have pointed out to them. you can’t expect them to make the right decision if they don’t have all the facts.” So the fact is others call them a cult and cozy up only to make a point. So what? They get pissed off because they “have the facts” and they’ve been used. Where does that leave us? Still just as hated and misunderstood with no progress for us. Exposing hypocrisy is not the same as opening minds.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 3:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @Kid A:

      > “Am I reading this wrongly?

      You bet your sweet bippie, you are!

      Would you prefer that the LGBT community just roll over and play dead?

      How can you possibly take issue with simply setting the record straight? Is that TOO “confrontational” for you or would you prefer to wait for these people to vote some more of your civil-rights away from you before you speak up?

      Thse people have a mindset that is never going to be changed in a gazillion years. When will “turn the other cheek” patronizers like ever get it?

      Dec 11, 2008 at 3:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      Correction: “patronizers like you ever get it?”

      Dec 11, 2008 at 3:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steff
      Steff

      Everyone’s so quick to attack lately, Kid A simply put forth his opinion and welcomed others.

      If you can’t even treat people from your own community with respect, how do you expect others to?

      Dec 11, 2008 at 4:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bruno
      Bruno

      I think it helps our cause. It shows that the people who accuse us of religious intolerance have been much more guilty of it in the past than most of our community. It does negate their lies as well, pointing out that our protests were peaceful. I don’t think it’s meant to divide Mormons & other Christians, so much as to point out the hypocrisy of the few who ran the ad in the NYT.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      “…there is a real, unbroken line between the jihadist savagery in Mumbai and the hedonistic, irresponsible, blindly selfish goals and tactics of our homegrown sexual jihadists.”
      – Pat Boone, December 6, 2008

      Dec 11, 2008 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @Kid A: Agree with others- what’s wrong with telling the truth? It seems a bit odd that even this little bit of effort (they aren’t lying but letting the Mormons know with whom they are allied) is met by you with “it’s unfair” or won’t be sucessful. a) It’s fair so long as its true. b) You can not possibly know the impact. The point is to start to shed light on who these people are. Let reader of the ad decide for him or herself. In other words, let the truth win out over the lies. Not sure why you have a problem with that.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @Steff:

      Steff, if Kid A is man enough to attack gay activists for standing up for themselves, then he should be man enough to defend himself when he is counter-attacked. See letter published in today’s issue of the SLT.

      Are you listening, you members of the Mormon Church and Yes on Prop. 8 supporters?

      Dec 11, 2008 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @Steff: That’s because his opinion has not basis in reality. Putting for a view just to put forth one to be contrary serves little value to the reader. If he put forth a view that he could back up, that’s one thing. but he is essentially arguing here that its not a good tactic tell the truth. I am at lost to understand why not? Respect does not mean not questioning what Kid A or you say. That’s blind acceptance.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 5:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steff
      Steff

      @The Gay Numbers: That’s because his opinion has not basis in reality. Putting for a view just to put forth one to be contrary serves little value to the reader.

      Oh I agree. I’m merely pointing out that there’s a lot of in-fighting going on, which is only detrimental to any cause.

      Also I wasn’t saying you shouldn’t question Kid A in favour of ‘blind acceptance’, that’s just an obtuse interpretation of what I was saying.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 5:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      Barely three weeks have passed since the horrendous miscarriage of justice in California and HRC is back to what it has always done best. Asking for more money.

      Fund-raising is their number one activity. Getting anything accomplished, however, is on the bottom rung of the ladder. They exist purely for their own celebration.

      https://mail.google.com/mail/?zx=38e8v1ndwk1z&shva=1#trash/11e2816d334e3f1a

      Why is it that top-down organisations like HRC and their ilk are ALWAYS, ALWAYS, on the defensive…

      and never on the offensive?

      Oh, silly me. I already know the answer. Resolving none of the issue, is how they make sure that they stay “in business”.

      Like the government, a bureaucracy once created, continues to exist long after the need for it has passed.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Distingué Traces
      Distingué Traces

      The ad is great.

      It needs to run in a nationally distributed newspaper. There should be a fund specifically for that purpose.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 6:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      @Steff:

      You said: “Oh I agree. I’m merely pointing out that there’s a lot of in-fighting going on, which is only detrimental to any cause.”

      I totally disagree with your conclusion. And that statement is not “in-fighting”, just my democratic right to disagree with you.

      You say it like it is a bad thing? Debate is the basis upon which our entire system of Democratic governance was built on. It’s called freedom of speech. A government of the people, for the people and by the people, all of whom in theory at least, should all be allowed to be heard.

      When we are no longer allowed to disagree or respond to unfounded comments or outright lies, then we will either be a complete dictatorship, a Monarchy or under Communist rule.

      I have a terrible problem understanding people who are always going on about people debating others points of view? Should we all swallow our pride and bite our tongue while others spew their unfounded rhetoric at us, as the Mormon Church is presently wailing about?

      Why should the shitters be allowed to shit on the shat upon, while the shat are not allowed speak up in their own self defense?

      That’s just plain idiotic.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 6:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      coreection: “while the shat upon are not allowed to speak…”

      Dec 11, 2008 at 7:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      @Distingué Traces:

      I fully agree with you. And why hasn’t HRC picked up on that as well?

      As usual, they are off fighting another “Banana Republic War” with Pat Boone, while millions of Christians and Mormons are storming the castle walls. (See my post above)

      Heads. Asses.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 7:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      This is a copy and paste of a letter I have just written to Mr. Joe Salmonese at HRC. Feel free to to quote, extract or use any part of it to send your own wake-up call to Mr. Salmonese.

      December 11, 2008

      Mr. Joe Salmonese
      President
      Human Rights Campaign
      1640 Rhode Island Avenue, NW
      Washington DC, 20036-3278

      Dear Mr. Salmonese,

      The email that arrived in my inbox today, a call-to-arms (read send more money) to yet another “Banana Republic War” against one lone, white shoe-shod, has-been gospel singer, Mr. Pat Boone, while millions of homophobic Christians and Mormons storm the castle walls is but one of the many reasons I chose not to renew my membership with HRC this year.

      After the heinous miscarriage of Constitutional Justice that occurred at the polls in California last month, aided in large part by HRC’s top-down management of No to Proposition 8, one would think that HRC would be dedicating itself to taking a good, hard look at where it failed the LGBT community, instead of looking to put a band-aid on a wound inflicted by an old man who could not warble God Bless America if he tried.

      Hello. Mr. Boon is NOT our biggest problem at the moment. Fighting the people who took our rights away from us is. This latest hustle for yet more money, is just one more in a long string of “touches’ HRC has put on the GLBT Community over the years. You people are so out of touch with reality, that it boggles the imagination. No doubt, y’all have another black tux affair in the planning and need more money to finance that instead of looking a good hard look at the issues that are staring you in the face and addressing yourselves to them.

      Head. Asses.

      In case you haven’t gotten wind of it yet, a rival organization, Truth Wins Out, composed, paid for and sent a letter to the Salt Lake Tribune, responding to the ad that ran Friday in the New York Times headlined, “No Mob Violence” that accused the LGBT protesters of attacking religious communities unfairly. Here is a link to Queerty with the full story. I suggest you take a look-see at it to bring yourself up to speed on current gay issues.

      http://www.queerty.com/the-gay-rights-ad-salt-lake-woke-up-to-this-morning-20081211/#comment-104932

      One of the posters on the blog that follows raised a very interesting question and I quote him verbatim:

      “The ad is great.

      It needs to run in a nationally distributed newspaper. There should be a fund specifically for that purpose.”

      And all the time, I labored under the impression that HRC had such a fund, created by the dues-paying, card-carrying membership with whom you seem to have lost touch.

      How silly of me.

      Sincerely,

      Charles J. Mueller
      Tampa, Florida

      Dec 11, 2008 at 7:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PJ
      PJ

      @chuck:

      No. 2 · Kid A

      I don’t think pitting religious groups against one another is going to further our cause.

      Sure, hypocrisy should be pointed out, but this seems less about gays than rival factions. Am I reading this wrongly?

      No. 5 · Cam (To Kid A)
      can you come off of Kum Ba Ya mountain for a minute and look at this realistically?

      No. 10 · Charles J. Mueller (to Kid A)
      … Thse people have a mindset that is never going to be changed in a gazillion years. When will “turn the other cheek” patronizers like ever get it?

      OK! Kid A made an opinionated statement. It was simply an opinion. For that opinion, he was blatantly and directly attacked.

      I agree that debate is great discourse but name calling is not debate. It is puerile and unattractive.

      I, personally, feel that the ad could have been a little stronger. I like the idea that we are pointing out to the Mormon’s that they are sleeping with the enemy. I hope this is the beginning to a wake up call for the LDS. I am not optimistic about it actually happening but I can hope.

      I don’t agree with Kid A’s position but I do agree with Steff’s. Infighting and name calling is not going to get us anywhere. When we fight against ourselves, the bad guys have no option but to win against us. Name calling is letting the bad guys win. They are fractionating and already fractionated group of people. We need to begin looking for unity as a group. We need to find ways of working together. Since we can not count on the organizations that we have created to fight our battles for us, we need to take our own battles to the street.
      We have begun taking our battles to the streets. With peaceful protests all over the Nation in protest of the Proposition 8 decision, we have unified. Day Without Gays failed because not enough people called in “gay.”

      http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081211/ap_on_re_us/calling_in_gay

      Chuck, your letter to Joe Salomnese is pure genius but it is better for us to focus our attentions on what matters than focusing on HRC. But you can’t fight this battle alone and HRC is a useless money-whore but it isn’t the enemy.

      Everyone, let’s stop the name calling because someone disagrees with us. If you need clarification of a point or if you need validation of a point, ask for it. Don’t call that person names. It doesn’t look good for the name caller and only makes the name callee more sympathetic.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 8:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      @PJ:

      You say tomatoe and I say tomahato.

      You say potatoe and I say potahto.

      Umm…I looked back over the exchange of dialogue and I did not find one instance of name-calling. Differences of opinion yes. but no epithets or names hurled, unless, of course, I missed something….

      Thank you for the compliment on my letter to Joe Salmonese. Sadly, you saw fit to take it back, however.

      I agree with you fully that HRC is a useless money-whore, but castigating my efforts to do a little consciousness-raising that might just get the Truth Wins Out letter published in the NY Times and other major publications around the country and thus benefit the LGBT community in some way, manner or form, is better than just sitting behind one’s computer screen and berating the efforts of others.

      Besides reprimanding and sermonizing, perhaps you would be so good as to share with me and the rest of us who regularly post on these threads, some of the things that you are actively doing to help get back the civil-rights that were so flagrantly ripped away from the GLBT community a few weeks ago instead instead telling the rest of us how we should be doing it?

      Dec 11, 2008 at 8:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      Correction: Tomahato should read tomahto.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 8:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chapeau
      Chapeau

      Way to Go Wayne Besen !!

      Ignore the naysayers — afterall, it’s the naysayers that have HRC by the balls apparently — and why our largest LGBT organization is as useless as tits on a boar hog.

      I’m just sayin’ !!

      WTG. Everyone should give Wayne a few bucks!

      Dec 11, 2008 at 9:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kid A
      Kid A

      I don’t mind people having a different opinion than I do, but most of you here have been assuming a lot more about me than you have cause for.

      I am not playing dead or singing Kum Bay Ya. Some of you making ad hominem attacks against me are the same people who were upset that No on 8 commercials didn’t feature gay people. In the same vein, a full-page ad could be used to DIRECTLY advocate our cause, instead of back-door, reactive “fuck up people who messed with us” approaches. That’s my opinion on what could have been, does that mean I don’t think the hypocrisy it points out needs to be? Not at all, it does a good job at what it sets out to do. I simply would have run a harder-hitting GAY-centric ad. That’s all.

      I understand that emotions are running high during this time, mine are too. However, to call my modest angle an “attack” or “unfounded” is an exaggeration ridiculous to the point of being laughable. We are all on the same side. What’s especially disappointing is that Charles Muller’s and Gay Numbers’ opinions were those with which I agreed with often, admired, and looked forward to most as I browsed Queerty. Christ, people.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 9:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      @Kid A: I think you may not know the context of this ad. The ad is a direct response to another ad placed by the Becket Fund which seeks to build on the coalition of religious groups that worked to effectively pass Proposition 8.

      The ad, “No Mob Veto” http://www.towleroad.com/2008/12/becket-fund-lau.html is an attempt by the lying liars to ensure that their coalition of strange bedfellows continues to band together in order to ensure that Proposition 8 isn’t overturned. At least enough “banding together” to ensure that the Morons are willing to again fund the next $40 million initiative.

      This response is an attempt to highlight just who those bastards have gotten into bed with, and just how much they are despised by them – which is almost as much as they despise us.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 10:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kid A
      Kid A

      @Dick Mills: Thank you, I very much appreciate it. All I asked for in the first place.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 10:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      @Kid A:

      Thank you for the kind words directed at Gay Numbers and I. It’s most kind of you. We are not out to get you, please know that. More than ever before in our gay history, we all need to stand together and fight the good fight.

      Together we stand. Divided we fall. And that’s the truth. Pffffft! as Lillie Tomlin used to say. ;-)

      While I posted my letter to Mr. Bessen in another blog, I am also posting it on this blog. I hope that you will get to read it and maybe even slip a few bucks to Mr. Bessen so he can carry on his great work which benefits us all.

      Peace.

      December 11, 2008

      Mr. Wayne Bessen
      Two Executive Director
      Truth Wins Out
      Post Office Box 25491
      Brooklyn, NY 11202

      Dear Mr. Bessen,

      I read about the letter you sent to the Salt Lake Times on Queerty today.

      Bravo. Job well done. Mr. Bessen. Your ad was a stroke of genius. Those of us who read and post on Queerty daily, are delighted to know that we have an ally like you who is willing to speak up and counter the rhetoric and lies that have been flung in the face of the LGBT community over the course of the Constitutional rape in California called Proposition 8.

      I am enclosing a copy of a letter that I just mailed to Mr. Joe Salmonese of the Human Rights Campaign. As a bitterly disappointed ex-member of HRC, I will admit that it is sharply critical of HRC’s top-down, clumsy handling of No on Proposition 8. I make no apologies for it, however.

      If nothing else, it might just serve as a wake-up call from the many thousands of LGBT people who have given their generous financial support to HRC over the years and are now angry that HRC dropped the ball on such an important issue. Had they not been so elitist and smugly wrapped-up in their “Step back…we’ve got it handled” attitude, we might still be enjoying the right to get married in California.

      Who knows? It might even prompt them to contact you and throw a little money your way to get the letter published in the New York Times and a few other major newspapers across America. Now that would really make some waves.

      Many posters on the Queerty blog have suggested making donations to Truth Wins Out. Please accept my meager check enclosed, which I hope, will help to make some smaller waves. I am posting this letter on Queerty with your snail mail address in the hope that others will also send in whatever donations they can afford so that you can continue the good fight.

      With all best wishes,

      Charles J. Mueller
      Tampa, Florida

      Dec 11, 2008 at 11:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kid A
      Kid A

      @chuck: Thanks for the info, I have lately seldom heard of HRC doing something truly useful, and have stopped giving money for a while now. I attended a Truth Wins Out rally here in Orlando, and their attitude is much more proactive, encouraging people to act, which is more than can be said for a “=” bumper sticker! Appreciate it.

      Dec 11, 2008 at 11:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HYHYBT
      HYHYBT

      “I also think feeding them to lions is a great idea.
      Seriously. Lions.”

      I believe that’s been tried a time or two. It doesn’t work :)

      Dec 12, 2008 at 3:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Kid A – I’m arriving late to this discussion, but I went back to the top of this post and read your first statement.

      Based on your very detailed, intelligent replies to others “am I reading this wrongly…” seems deliberately naive to provoke the kind of responses you got and then you complain you were attacked.

      I agree with all those who say “telling the truth” should be not a problem especially when those it is directed against have LIED their butts off about Prop 8 and Gays in general.

      The idea here, which should be obvious, is that by letting the public know that Chuck Colson et al are duplicitous and liars, the next time they speak the public SHOULD be very wary about believing what they say on ANY topic.

      Dec 12, 2008 at 10:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      One more thing – the ad above is very mild, balanced, truthful and fair. Period. I can’t imagine why, in response to Beckham religious fund or not, why anyone would have a problem with it.

      Dec 12, 2008 at 11:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kid A
      Kid A

      @Jaroslaw: I agree that the comments are detailed and intelligent. And anyone who has read my comments here before knows that deliberately reactionary and provoking snark is not my style. Any other sensationalist interpretation is your own. Wish you all well.

      Dec 12, 2008 at 8:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David Alex Nahmod
      David Alex Nahmod

      As someone who wrote for the TWO website for nearly a year, I can tell you that what they present to the world and who they realy are
      don’t jive.
      They’re not about equality. they’re about back & forth, tit for tat name calling between themselves and right wing nuts.

      Not long ago, I encountered a gay man who’s lived with HIV for over 20 years. He was recently taunted for his “gross” appearence by another gay man in the middle of the Castro, San Francisco’s gay ghetto.
      Wayne Besen’s sidekick Michael Airhart labeled me an “anti-gay bigot” for speaking out against the deplorable way the HIV poz chap was treated, and for refusing to join his personal vendetta against another gay man.
      I challenged Airhart to say he was sorry that a gay man with AIDS was treated so horribly~~Airhart refused to do so.

      At the time Airhart banned me from posting at TWO, I had interviews with Molly Mc Kay (Marriage Equality USA) and Judy Shepard (Matt’s Mom) ready for posting. Both women talked about healing, reconciliation and forgiveness~~messages Airhart refused to post.

      While I see no indication that Besen behaves this way, he has been made aware of Airhart’s behavior and enables it.

      Next month I’ll be 54 years old. I’ve been out since 1976. In all these years, I have yet to encounter a nationally know gay activist or gay rights organization who behaves any differently that Michael Airhart, and that’s a big part
      of why we’re still a third class people.

      Dec 13, 2009 at 1:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael Airhart
      Michael Airhart

      Nahmod was discontinued as a writer for Truth Wins Out due to his inabiity to abide by a reasonable code of conduct:

      http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2010/04/8480/

      Among other problems, he misquoted certain sources involved in the story of Beecher Goodwin. Nahmod also harassed witnesses involved in the same story. Truth Wins Out does not publish articles by writers who violate our requirements for professional behavior and responsible journalism.

      May 1, 2010 at 7:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • david alex nahmod
      david alex nahmod

      Michael, your a liar, and a bad one at that: You now also say that I’m stalking Beecher, who I’ve not contacted in years. What would you say if I ever followed your advice and hired a lawyer? What will you say if I called Beecher to the stand and asked him about these claims of yours that I’m stalking him–Beecher never lies. I know that much about him. His Jesus freak housemates tried to get him to lie in court but he couldn’t do it.
      Now please tell the readers of Queerty why you refused to say your sorry that a gay man with AIDS was treated so poorly.

      Jul 5, 2010 at 2:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael Airhart
      Michael Airhart [Different person #1 using similar name]

      David, you were discontinued as a writer because of your repeated, desperate mischaracterizations and misquotations of people, and because of your publicly expressed bigotry against LGBT communities, which you periodically project onto other people.

      We have always been willing to let your misconduct be quietly dropped — it is you who keep reopening the topic and requiring re-exposure of your behavior.

      Jul 5, 2010 at 4:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David Alex Nahmod
      David Alex Nahmod

      Michael, since this is the first time in a year that you’ve addressed me in a courteous fashion, I’m happy to respond in kind.
      Last week, I discovered this:
      http://www.ProtectFamilies.Blogspot.com

      Protect Families is an anti gay hate blog which states on it’s masthead: “I Chronicle Hate Acts Against Christians”.
      Can you explain why, on May 25th, 2010, your pal Wayne Besen posted two supportive comments at this very blog? Isn’t that blog’s mission statement at odds with the TWO mission statement?
      Had Wayne not posted those comments, which are about me, I would not be speaking up now.
      And BTW, Mike, last month the owners of Protect Families sent a comment to my blog in which they called me “an emasculated Jewish bitch”–I didn’t post this comment but I saved it. I’m perfectly willing to print the comment out and fax it to you–maybe then you’ll see that the people who lie about my stalking activities are also lying about their own behavior.

      So Michael, here’s a chance to prove you mean what you say: first, take a look at the abusive, anti-semetic comment sent to me by the Protect Families people. Then, remove all the negative posts about me from the TWO site and I’ll do the same on my end.

      Then, let’s you & I publicly shake hands & wish each other well.

      Are you willing to do this, Michael?

      Jul 5, 2010 at 4:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joe I.
      Joe I.

      My name is Joe. I’m sure that Michael Airhart and Wayne Besen will say that I’m David in disguise, like they did yesterday.
      So I invite the moderators here to email me for verification of who I am if Truth Wins Out pulls that shit here.
      I know David and Beecher personally, and consider both of them to be my friends. When Beecher’s mother died a few years ago, his Christian housemates stopped me from contacting him to express my condolonces. Michael Airhart has a signed letter from me about this. Michael interviewed me over the phone, so he knows goddam well that David’s story is true. Why is Truth Wins Out doing these things to David? Truth Wins out is the most unethical group I’ve ever seen. I wonder if Wayne Besen will now start calling me names, like he did to David yesterday.

      Jul 5, 2010 at 6:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #43 – Joe I. – I hardly think TWO is the “most unethical group ever.” Unless you care to prove Wayne Besen is making tons of money from his site dishonestly, ultimately whether or not I agree with you or him is irrelevant. Don’t like what he says? Start your own site.

      For example – David is “up in arms” Wayne comment on “protect families” blog. How can we be 100% sure it is Wayne? I’ll settle for 90% if that will make you happy. So I go to this site, and Wayne is not supporting the site’s mission at all, as David says here but rather saying some not so nice things about David. Why David would post a link to this is beyond me.

      So, I suggest you, Michael and David take this personal squabble somewhere other than this Blog.

      Jul 5, 2010 at 11:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • david alex nahmod
      david alex nahmod [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Jaroslaw, I’m glad you asked that question, because I asked it myself. I found it hard to believe that Wayne, whose mission statement is “fighting right wing lies and the ex gay myth” would post supportive comments at a blog which states “I Chronicle Hate Acts Against Christians”. At first, I wondered if the Protect Families people were impersonating Besen.
      But yesterday, in the comments section of Truth Wins Out, Besen said he agreed with Protect Families. He also made fun of my “multiple personality disorder” (a disease I don’t have), and he accused me of stalking my ex, who I’ve not contacted in years, along with other outrageous, inflammatory comments.
      When challenged to show proof of the things they accuse me of, Wayne resorts to name calling, and Michael closes the TWO comments section.

      If you’d care to provide me with a fax number, Jaroslaw, I’ll show you the unposted blog comment I got from Protect Families in which they called me “an emasculated Jewish bitch”.
      Wayne & Michael were made aware of this comment, but don’t seem to care.

      I think that people running a non profit gay advocacy group, as Wayne & Michael are, should be held to higher standards of behavior than that.
      When a gay person turns to the gay community for help, as I did, help and kind words should be forthcoming, not the laughter, taunts and abuse that I’ve been subjected to from TWO and others.

      I’m now finding one example after another of other gay people who’ve been treated exactly as I’ve been treated within the gay community sphere.
      How can we expect others to respect us when our leaders behave in such a deplorable manner?
      How can we expect to achieve equality under these conditions?

      I’m not perfect, God knows I’ve lost my cool and made mistakes that I regret.
      But I’m not claiming to represent the community as Wayne & Michael are. They should set a better example.

      I repeat my offer to shake Michael’s hand and take down all our various posts.

      Jul 6, 2010 at 3:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #45 David – I’m very sorry that things didn’t work out between TWO and you. You obviously feel you’ve been treated unfairly and IF Wayne & Michael did what you say, then I agree they should behave better.

      But unless I’m missing something major; my main point is this Blog is not the place to sort this kind of thing out. I wish you well and all the future happiness life can provide. I don’t have a fax number but I may click on your site and provide you with an e-mail address. Good luck.

      Jul 6, 2010 at 8:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • david alex nahmod
      david alex nahmod

      Thank you for the kind words. I wish we had more people like you willing to offer a kind word–it would bring us together and make our equality goals more attainable.

      I do see your point, but when Wayne and Michael began making those accusations and shut me and my friends out of the discussion, I felt I had to go somewhere to be heard.
      A thread about TWO seemed to be the place. I think/hope you understand.

      Jul 6, 2010 at 10:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David Alex Nahmod
      David Alex Nahmod

      Jaroslaw, I hope you & the mods here will forgive me if I post one final time. After thinking it over this past week, I’ve begun doing a little research to see what legal recourse I may have against those who pretend to be victimized by me while deliberately provoking me–they’ve left quite a paper trail of what they’ve done, the anti-semetic emails I got from the Protect Families blogger being a prime example. (yes, there’s more than one of those)
      All I’ve done is speak out against the way I was treated, nothing more.

      Part of what I hope to do in court is to have a judge and mediator contact my ex one final time, so that someone can finally tell him the truth about the terrible things that were done behind his back by his Jesus freak housemates–and by gay activists.
      I’ve already contacted two openly gay members of clergy to ask for their help in publicly addressing and stopping the shameful conduct of this community. Both have said yes, they will see me.

      Whoever sees this post should stop & think about how I was treated, because that’s how each of you would be treated if ever you need the community’s help–that’s how most of our “gay activists” operate.

      I’m also going to explore the possibility of leaving the USA permanently. I’ve lived overseas before, and was quite impressed with how different–how welcoming–LGBT communities in other countries are.
      The American community will not achieve it’s goals until they follow that example.

      Sure, I’ve gotten angry and lashed out a few times–who wouldn’t other these conditions?
      I am what the American gay community has made me.
      It’s time to go somewhere else and be something else.

      “If Only We Didn’t Hate Ourselves Quite So Very Much”
      —–The Boys in the Band by Mart Crowley

      Jul 9, 2010 at 1:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Dear David –

      If there is one thing I’ve learned, it is EVERYONE has their own agenda. Sometimes the agenda is for the greater good and sometimes not. And even if it is for the good, that does not mean a person cannot also have character defects. I find it very hard to believe that Wayne Besen would do these things to you, but as I already said, if you have a paper trail, good luck in court.

      I certainly can’t blame you for leaving the USA and I will repeat that I wish you all the best in your future life.

      May 23, 2011 at 5:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David N
      David N

      Dear Jaroslaw:

      I was quite surprised to get a notification this morning of another comment here–I had largely forgotten about this thread.
      Thank you again for being one of the few people in the gay community to offer me a kind word.

      Actually, Wayne Besen and I settled our differences amicably a month or so ago and he deleted his posts about me: the TWO link above is now a dead one. I can now honestly say that I wish Wayne the best.

      It’s been an interesting year, albeit one I could have lived without. In Nov and Dec 2010, my ex’s housemates harrased me to such extreme degrees that I needed police assistance in putting a stop to it. The police verified that these bastards had in fact been coming after me for some time–all this continued for several years while various gay activists and journalists ignored and ridiculed my cries for help.
      And all I did to bring this on was try to forward my ex’s mail to him: nothing more.
      I suspect that all the police visits may have woken him up to what he had gotten himself involved in: I just heard that he moved out of that house.

      Is it any wonder that I’m embittered and resentful after a nightmare like this?
      For as long as I live, I’ll not forget how various gay activists and gay advocacy groups treated me when I needed them.

      Something for all of us to think about. Neither community nor equality can be achieved if we turn on each other.

      May 23, 2011 at 10:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Actually, I got notified this morning with the text that you had written 7/9/2010. So obviously, the new owners of this site are doing something with the computers.

      Congratulations on getting everything settled. Like I said, I don’t know what happened with you and Wayne, but I know that sometimes it is only one little thing that changes someone’s attitude and things can snowball. People on both sides dig their heels in and it is unfortunate. Glad to hear it is finally over for you and you can now move on.

      May 23, 2011 at 10:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David N
      David N

      Thanks again. I haven’t always expressed myself well while dealing with this, but I was dealing with quite a heavy load of shit.
      I wonder if the new owners would consider deleting our comments?
      It serves no good to keep this ugly story on the web.

      Best to you.

      May 23, 2011 at 11:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      I wrote to the old owners several times, mostly about story suggestions and to ask why my posts of 4 paragraphs were moderated (they eventually showed up) but others wrote novels and weren’t and I was only mildy insulting twice out of 100 plus posts. However a friend of mine said the new owners responded right away, when he wrote – so you can ask!

      May 23, 2011 at 11:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David N
      David N

      The contact info for the site still lists Holla, isn’t she one of the old owners. Do you have the new owners contact info, thanks!

      May 23, 2011 at 12:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Holla means Holler (yell) at….go ahead and use it. I’ll check with my friend and get back to you if it is different.

      May 23, 2011 at 5:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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